Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
ElectricBoogaloo

S04.E17: After the Fire

Recommended Posts

46 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I went back and edited my comment to reflect my point better.  What I was really driving at was the way Randall treats Kate in his scenarios.  Kate and Randall have had very few interactions over the seasons but what we have seen have all had them in a good place.  Not as close as her and Kevin, but not as contentious as Kevin and Randall.   Shouldn't Kate also get her perfect life in the first fantasy?  

I just don't think Randall cares that much if either of his siblings is happy.  He could have made Kate a more typical weight in either fantasy (which would have been a challenge for the producers), but he didn't.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

Who was the Ethan that Kate was married to in the 2nd scenario?  Have we ever seen or met him before (in flashbacks)?  Since Kevin ends up with Sophie, I thought Ethan must be somebody we were suppose to know.  If the scenario was supposed to be what Randall feared, why didn't they just make the husband Mark?

Interesting that in both alternative scenarios, Kevin is not rich and famous, yet still seems happier and better adjusted than Randall.  (And I would argue that in the "real" timeline, he is the same way, even if he is a recovering alcoholic.)

LOVED Beth being the voice of reason in the dinner scene and convincing Randall to forgive his mother. 

I really have nothing to add about Randall himself that hasn't already been said.  Total dick move what he did to Rebecca.  

  • Like 16
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, Roxie said:

Way back, she was also the voice of Bobby Hill on "King of the Hill."

I thought it was called "Ching of the Mill."

17 minutes ago, Veronica said:

Am I remembering correctly that Kevin was married to Sophie in both of Randall’s “What if,” scenarios? 

Sophie was definitely there at Thanksgiving in the first scenario, but I don't think they were married yet.  She mentioned everyone going to college, which made me think that Kate had gone for sure.

I'm not sure if she was with Kevin at Randall's wedding to Beth in that first, happy fantasy. 

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I do appreciate that even if Randall doesn't realize it, he's an ass in every version he sees of himself or in reality. In reality, his circumstances in life have given him a inflated sense of self that makes him so hard to take at times. The douchebag version of himself is obvious. But, even in his happiest version of his life, he's only really worried about himself. The results of Jack living in regards to everyone else isn't really a concern to him.

I do appreciate that over the past two seasons, the show runners have shattered that Halo over Jack and Randall. They are two tremendously flawed characters. Much more than those around them. 

  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

How did Kate meet her husband in Sliding Doors?  Was it explained?

 

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

No.  It wasn't important to Randall. I'm not sure why he didn't just give her Toby as a husband, as in the first scenario.  Plus, I wanted to know if she had gone to college to study music.

Kevin didn't go to California and need an assistant, so Kate didn't go to California either.  Thus she wouldn't have met Toby.

1 hour ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I did not understand why in one version of Randall's 'fantasies", he had a different girlfriend(not Beth, whom we've seen with Randall since college), has Randall secretly wanted a girlfriend?  And why did he see Kate with twins & not with Toby?  Clearly, he did not want to see Kevin as a famous actor...Randall wanted to be the "hero" in all his fantasies.

Randall didn't go to the same school as Beth in one scenario or at least didn't meet her and immediately be smitten as he was in his "real life."

I seriously wanted Rebecca to tell Randall that she'd think about it and talk it over with Miguel, rather that just cave and say she'd do it.  

  • Like 17

Share this post


Link to post

My thought at the end of Randall's first fantasy where he and Jack give each other knowing looks when Rebecca has lost her phone: "No wonder Rebecca and Randall are so close, they both have two dads!" 

  • Like 2
  • Laugh 16

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, zoey1996 said:

Kevin didn't go to California and need an assistant, so Kate didn't go to California either.  Thus she wouldn't have met Toby.

That makes sense, but then how did she meet him in the first scenario where they were married?  Did Kevin stop working with Jack and head to California sometime later?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I thought this episode was absolutely brilliant. I was hating the first 15 minutes, when everything went damn near perfectly in Randall's vision, but then the therapist called him out and everything got so much better.

i think it was a brilliant way to show how someone can have a breakthrough, and still manage to take away exactly the wrong message, and make a terrible mistake while thinking they're in the right.

  • Like 21
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

I hate that we have to have Randall’s POV for this “what could have been” scenario.  Oh and what do you know??  Kate is still fat at Randall’s wedding, because in his own mind, only his life would be different if he’d saved Jack.  That’s also why we’ve now spanned decades, and Jack Pearson is still sporting the same Sonny Bono look, in Randall’s fantasy.  Hey, my dad had a bad stache when I was a kid, but he isn’t still rocking it.  

Seriously though, his POV limits all of our alternate-universe characters, and makes them. all.  Randall.  This is Sterling’s Emmy reel, is what it is.  I wish the saga would continue with the other Big 2 of 3’s imagining of life A.J.  (A.J. = After Jack, like the B.C. age.  Because they act like Jack is the messiah.)

Then, the episode ends with Randall saying to Rebecca that he’s never asked her for anything, and he needs her to agree to the clinical trial!!  OMG I can’t believe this, right now!!  And she says “Okay...” and her tone is SO not wanting to agree to it!!!  He can’t hear that?  Super Son?  Sure we don’t get his reply— because the episode ends—but he is so delusional, at this point, why would he get it next week?

I’m glad he is getting help, but in typical selfrighteous!Randall fashion, he thinks one session cured him.  He now officially knows it all!  Sprinkle the rose petals on the red carpet that you roll out for him, when he goes to the next appointment with his therapist, because he’s now got all the knowledge!

At least now, I think we know for sure what causes his rift with Kevin!

Added note:  Look at the wig sprouting out of MM’s scalp, when she is telling Randall about William the first time!  (I tried to add a pic but it says the file is too large.)  Never cared for the old lady Rebecca wig, but the middle aged one hasn’t bothered me this much till now!!

 

Edited by Miss Bones · Reason: Punctuation and grammar
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

Wow.  That was hard to watch.  I have sympathy for Randall but the manipulation was horrible. 
The actress who plays young Beth is brilliant. 

  • Like 20

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

.....but I can tell that Randall's therapist is going to continue to annoy me.  

I always find Pamela Adlon annoying.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

It almost seemed like the therapist was getting through to Randall, and then...this. Rebecca made herself clear about not wanting to do the trial, and now Randall has just guilt tripped her into it because of his own issues. "You have to spend nine months doing this thing you really don't want to do because otherwise I'll end up back in therapy!" Really, Randall? It's all about him; no concern about what Rebecca herself wants, and once again just bulldozing his way through without talking to Miguel, Kate, or Kevin. I understand he doesn't want to lose yet another parent, but now he's just alienating everyone. 

  • Like 23

Share this post


Link to post

Mandy Moore had another fantastic episode.  She's been magnificent all season.

I did love Pamela Adlon calling Randall on his bullshit.  I think it's hilarious that Kevin, while still sexy as hell (because Randall can't change that), is so unremarkable in either (any?) alternate reality Randall can conjure.  Randall completely resents Kevin's acting success because he thinks that he's entitled to be the one and only superstar and that Kevin doesn't deserve it.  Naturally, Kate doesn't factor into Randall's alternate realities because he doesn't really care about her one way or the other.  I mean, both scenarios served to illuminate how little Randall thinks about anyone other than himself.  He is monstrously self-centered and self-aggrandizing, but that's nothing new: Randall always, always gets his way.

However, the revolting emotional manipulation he employed to get Rebecca into a clinical trial in which she very well might not get the life-saving new treatment for Alzheimer's (hello, Mr. Almost-An-MD-Because-I-Read-Some-Articles, half the participants will get the placebo) and trying to rob her of her waning quality time with her family just because he has no ability to consider anyone but himself?

giphy.gif

  • Like 18

Share this post


Link to post

This episode was.... an episode.

I am glad the therapist called him out on his perfect scenario being BS - but holy crap Randall, why would you take the therapist's message as "emotionally blackmail your mother into joining a clinical trial"

that is the exact opposite of what she meant

Also, during Randall's "I've lost three parents" spiel, I was immediately reminded of the show Awake, which had much better TV therapists - 

 

  • Like 1
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

About halfway through Randall’s second hissyfit, I couldn’t help but think “I bet Jack is glad he went back into that house.”  His birth mom should consider herself lucky as well.  Holy crap, Randall is exhausting.  

  • Like 4
  • Laugh 20

Share this post


Link to post

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

They tried to explain it in the 2nd version by giving her twins.

So I guess Rebecca "wastes" 9 precious months on the trial.

Oh, I see, but they were 2 or so? I would see babies more that way.  I had twins so didn't correlate it. Face wasn't effected. But I guess you are right and those weird half of her body in the clip photo. That scene with Kevin and the girls was angled funny like they were trying to cut out part of her.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Even if Randall's biological mother quit drugs when she was pregnant with him, there would likely have been at least a month before she knew she was pregnant.  Perhaps his very early pre-natal exposure to drugs damaged him in some way that manifests as extreme anxiety, which he can only suppress if he is in control.  (In other words, it's his other mother's fault.)

  • Like 5
  • Useful 3

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, debraran said:

Oh, I see, but they were 2 or so? I would see babies more that way.  I had twins so didn't correlate it. Face wasn't effected. But I guess you are right and those weird half of her body in the clip photo. That scene with Kevin and the girls was angled funny like they were trying to cut out part of her.

Some people never lose the baby weight, but that would be a lot of baby weight, even for a mother of multiples. 

For those conspiracy theorists who thought that the actress had secretly lost significant weight and was padded this season, this is the episode where the pads would have come off, because with Jack alive, there would be no reason for Randall to think Kate would have gained so much weight.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
  • Like 13
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Even if Randall's biological mother quit drugs when she was pregnant with him, there would likely have been at least a month before she knew she was pregnant.  Perhaps his very early pre-natal exposure to drugs damaged him in some way that manifests as extreme anxiety, which he can only suppress if he is in control.  (In other words, it's his other mother's fault.)

I was thinking that too, they made him so unattractive. I also felt it was "filler" a lot of the show, it could have been done in half the time and had the fallout the second half.

Yes, I agree, if she lost weight, it was for this show. She didn't and I know she was heavier to begin with but at that age, to gain that much weight with twins, all over and keep it all, No.  First thing I thought of when they were all eating together and I feel bad about it, "Kate is very heavy and there was no Jack to mourn and eat junk food" that Kevin talked about first year.

Is there anyway we are wrong? When she was at party was this year, this summer, would that be 9 months or did she drop out or not go? Do you think she tells Kevin that he manipulated her or Miguel? Please let Miguel get some chutzpah and take his wife back!

Edited by debraran
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

FUCK RANDALL.

He can take his emotional blackmail and eat a giant bag of dicks. He just wants to get his way because he's worried about how Rebecca's cognitive decline and death will affect HIM. He has no respect for her or he wouldn't have used her guilt about William to manipulate her into getting his way.

I don't care how much you love someone. That never gives you the right to take away their right to make their own medical decisions while they are still mentally able to do so. Yes, Rebecca has some memory problems but she is clearly still lucid and logical enough to make her own decisions.

But Randall doesn't care what Rebecca wants or respect her choices. All he cares about is what HE wants so he is steamrolling his own mother because he is always right and everyone who disagrees with him is wrong. On top of all that, he is one of those people who can't just let something go. Instead of accepting XYZ, he will hold on to it and take it out so he can obsess about it and seethe about how he knows best but no one will listen to him and then when it's roiling he does something even bigger to prove that he was right.

I was SO glad when Randall's therapist interrupted his ridiculous fantasy of how perfect his life would have been if Jack hadn't died. Finally, someone on this show who stops a Pearson speech!

On a lighter note, I loved who utterly terrible Toby was at Pictionary. You can't draw two parallel lines and expect anyone to get "mission from Mars."

7 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

I loved the actor who played the therapist.

 

6 hours ago, slasherboy said:

That's Pam Adlon and she has her own show called "Better Things".  She used to be on Louis CK's show too.

 

6 hours ago, Roxie said:

Way back, she was also the voice of Bobby Hill on "King of the Hill."

And Marcy Runkle on Californication! If you want to go really old school, she was Dolores, the younger sister of one of the Pink Ladies who befriends Michael, the main character in Grease 2.

 

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
  • Like 13
  • Surprise 1

Share this post


Link to post

I gave up on this show last season then came back. Has it always been so Randall centric? I’m really getting tired of it. 

  • Like 9
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post

I can’t wait to see the actual fallout from Beth and the rest when it comes out how Randall blackmailed Rebecca. I thought just for a moment that she was gonna say no.
 

Way to go Randall. Nothing like emotionally manipulating your mom so that when she’s gone, at least you, can breathe a sigh of relief that you tried and no doubt lord it over your substandard siblings. 

  • Like 17

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, sara416 said:

As a therapist, I have to say that my favorite line of the night was from the therapist saying "I'm a therapist. I don't give advice." Rule #1 in our field, and I wish more people knew it!

Many years ago, I was calling around to try to find a therapist. I spoke to one and told her I did not want someone who would tell me what to do. Based on that, she concluded she couldn't work with me. Always felt I dodged a bullet there.

I didn't particularly enjoy this episode. 

It's been mentioned upthread a couple of times, but it doesn't make much sense that Kate is still morbidly obese in the scenarios where Jack lives. We were previously led to believe that Jack's death is what led to her enormous weight gain, although this season it's seemed more like Marc's abuse is where that trajectory starts. If Jack had lived, it's unlikely she would have met Marc.

I don't know much about clinical trials, but my understanding is that one cannot simply just decide to participate in a clinical trial. Not to mention, she may not get the experimental drug. Since Rebecca is at the cabin in August, she clearly doesn't end up spending 9 months in St. Louis.

Either way, adult Randall has a history of manipulating others to get what he wants, but this instance is really beyond the pale.

Edited by Jillybean
  • Like 4
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

6 hours ago, sara416 said:

As a therapist, I have to say that my favorite line of the night was from the therapist saying "I'm a therapist. I don't give advice." Rule #1 in our field, and I wish more people knew it!

Didn't she say I make observations and ask questions, and commented that she's not a neurologist but Rebecca may not have much time and he needed to talk to her about William?  That observation is advice of a sort, and I don't think it's a bad thing.  He actually listened, and did it, but of course monumentally effed it up. 

I don't really get why they ramped up Randall's anxiety and jerkiness to people before he even knew about Rebecca's diagnosis.  Why go there and make it look like he's tried to tightly control things all his life and especially after Jack died, but was a decent and loving guy, only to throw the curve ball that it was all about Rebecca not telling him about William, which only happened a couple years ago?  That was manipulative to me.  It only recently happened.  Why the build up of him actually being close to his mother all his life, from the beginning of the series we have seen it.  This played false to me, a way to make him into a monster. 

The episode also kind of cleared up for me that Rebecca never did tell Jack, which was an open question for me (unless I missed a plot bit).  If so, it explains to me maybe why she has in her older iterations much more bland in appearance and demeanor.  She's not like pre-Jack's death Rebecca in so many ways.  She's returning a little to that with her carpe diem, but Randall just put the kibosh on that.

  • Like 5
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post

Jack is the reverse George Bailey: things would be worse had he lived.  (Worse for everyone except maybe Kate's daughters who never were.)

Shame on you, Randall, for bullying your mother into doing the trial because it will make you feel better.  Incredibly selfish.  (But kudos to SKB for a great job portraying such a messed up character.)

Season finale next week??!!

9 hours ago, A.Ham said:

Painting himself as a hero for not confronting his mother

Which wasn't true.  Well, maybe not a confrontation but he was clearly furious at her for weeks.  Rebecca knew how he felt.

9 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I did not understand why in one version of Randall's 'fantasies", he had a different girlfriend

He apparently blames Rebecca for losing out on his dream of going to Howard Univ too.

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

That makes sense, but then how did she meet him in the first scenario where they were married?  Did Kevin stop working with Jack and head to California sometime later?

Randall probably didn't put that much thought into the lives of his siblings, except to diminish Kevin's fame and wealth.  I bet the writers/producers were trying to figure out how to present a slimmer Kate but couldn't come up with a good alternative.

  • Like 13
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Randall needs to remember that Jack died of a widow maker heart attack. He most likely would not have lived as long as he did in either of Randall’s alt versions.

If I was Kevin, I wouldn’t speak to Randall until Rebecca’s funeral. That is inexcusable and cruel  

Randall used the William card and the “good son” card to guilt Rebecca into the trial. I guess Rebecca gets no points for taking him into her family and not allowing him to end up in the foster care system. That alt version would not have been pleasant and would definitely not involve banging TA’s.

  • Like 22

Share this post


Link to post

Well, fuck Randall seems to be the theme of the discussion and I can't argue with that (or with SKB's stellar acting) but for me there are also some issues with the writing.

First of all that ever since season one I'm waiting for something more substantial on Randall's biological mom. But beyond being a sip of a hot drink she remains an empty shell, the carrier of William's genes and that pisses me off because there's still ground to uncover if we really have to dig deeper into Randall's psychological set-up. There's evidence that anxiety and panic disorders can be genetic - and it's also known that people suffering from those may self-medicate by resorting to drugs. So there would be some potential here for Randall figuring out his 'real' issues (because his anxiety, OCD and panic attacks are not caused by Rebecca lying to him or Jack's death). Why can't we learn more about bio mom for a change???

And I really think season one dealt with the emotional fall-out from Rebecca's lying - why going back there? There are other wells the writers could scoop from - like her dependency on Randall after Jack's death. There's potential for emotional drama we haven't been through already.

Also: I'm really tired of the focus on Randall's various parental dramas. I finally want the sibling dynamics being explored. Even if it has to be from Randall's POV. I hate how often Kate and Kevin are relegated to bit parts in the grand drama of Randall and his endless search for his identity. 

Most of the times I dislike 'what if' episodes and this was no exception. What makes it particularly frustrating is that there was potential for something more intriguing but in the end it was wasted on Randall being a manipulative a**. Maybe the writers want to really challenge themselves by pushing the character so far over the cliff that redemption seems almost impossible. But I'm not really interested in seeing that arc played out since I think it's a trope that works best in superhero shows and not so much in a family drama.

Edited by MissLucas
  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, debraran said:

I wondered how’d they’d show Kate.   They always blamed her added weight on dads death but even with careful camera angles it was noticeable. Cute little girls though.  I don’t like the different versions taking up the entire show but to each their own. 

I was hoping that in scenario 1 they would have gotten an actress that looks similar to Kate but was average looking (say size 12-14).  I always thought that Kate's weight issues were tied to Jack's death and that asshole boyfriend. 

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

No.  It wasn't important to Randall. I'm not sure why he didn't just give her Toby as a husband, as in the first scenario.  Plus, I wanted to know if she had gone to college to study music.

I think she did. Rebecca mentioned how it was nice they were all together and back from college.

My thoughts over all, that Randall is a dick.  He cannot stand Kevin or Kevin's success. I wonder if it's because he is adopted and Kevin is Rebecca and Jack's natural child. I wonder if it's because Kevin actually made it in Hollywood and Randall is jealous of his time in the limelight. 

I don't understand why Randall's 2nd version, Jack would be still drinking. I mean yes, Rebecca kept this secret but Jack also kept secrets (his brother) from Rebecca. Plus as Rebecca mentioned, William was still using at the time.  Regardless of William being Randall's natural father, no parent would want someone who is using around their child.   Jack's character was more forgiving with Rebecca. I could see Jack returning to the bottle if Randall actually froze Jack out as not being his father and turning to William. 

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I don't understand why Randall's 2nd version, Jack would be still drinking. I mean yes, Rebecca kept this secret but Jack also kept secrets (his brother) from Rebecca. Plus as Rebecca mentioned, William was still using at the time.  Regardless of William being Randall's natural father, no parent would want someone who is using around their child.   Jack's character was more forgiving with Rebecca. I could see Jack returning to the bottle if Randall actually froze Jack out as not being his father and turning to William. 

The second 'what if' was what Randall feared would happen if Jack survived.  So he knew Jack was drinking during the time not too long before the fire, and he just feared that would continue to be a problem.  He also apparently thought it was a possibility in the first scenario, we see him with a beer at the table and at an AA meeting with William.  Randall probably got that part pretty right.

17 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Also: I'm really tired of the focus on Randall's various parental dramas. I finally want the sibling dynamics being explored. Even if it has to be from Randall's POV. I hate how often Kate and Kevin are relegated to bit parts in the grand drama of Randall and his endless search for his identity. 

I'm pretty much over all of it, including the sibling rivalry.  It's all too unpleasant, there's a lack of warmth and humor anymore.  I hope next season moves on to new territory, like more of Miguel's friendship history with Jack and getting together with Rebecca, what is happening with Nicky, whose character is interesting to me and the actor is great, Beth and the girls, anything but the big three angst all the time. 

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post

I hated this episode with a passion.  There was so much selfishness and manipulation by the therapist, Randall, and Rebecca (in the past).

The therapist is an obnoxious snot.  She could have dealt with Randall in a fashion in which she didn't come off as an obnoxious jerk.

The therapist could have challenged Randall without being a jerk about it.

Rebecca wasn't protecting Randall from his biological father.   She was protecting herself.

Randall is just as selfish by manipulating his adopted mom into going through with the trial.  He is holding her mistakes of the past against her now, and using it to control Rebecca.   Rebecca looked so happy playing games with the rest of her family, and Randall is manipulating her into giving that all up.

I understand that Randall doesn't want to lose her, but even if by some miracle the trial works and he saves her, he still may lose her by forever fracturing that relationship.

Randall needs to stop making it all about him.

Edited by icemiser69
  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

About halfway through Randall’s second hissyfit, I couldn’t help but think “I bet Jack is glad he went back into that house.”  His birth mom should consider herself lucky as well.  Holy crap, Randall is exhausting.  

William, too.  Imagine if Randall wasn’t adopted by the Pearsons and William and Randall’s birthmom were clean..... ugh, poor parents!!

  • Like 2
  • Laugh 5

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, bybrandy said:

During his whole, "I can't lose you" bit?  I mean she's his mom.  He's going to lose her.  He is going to have to come to terms with that.  It is part of the deal.   We know he has years and years until she's physically gone but taking away time that she might be mentally in control of her life?  If anybody did that to him?  Not cool Randall.  

And I wonder if he'd be so eager to send her off "to not lose her" if she was playing boardgames on the east coast with Beth and the girls rather than in California playing with Kate and Kevin.

I do wish the therapist had pointed out that the only way for Randall not to lose Rebecca is for him to die first.  

I can't see Randall expecting Rebecca to move halfway across the country for this trial if Rebecca and Miguel had moved to Philly last year.  He would have looked to see if she could be part of the trial while still staying at home.  Because, you know, he cannot lose her.  Rebecca spending nine months in St. Louis would be him losing her.  He is still pissed that she dared to move to be near Kate and Kevin.  I really hope that the confrontation next week is Kate laying in to Randall instead of Kevin.  Kate and Baby Jack are the ones who stand to lose the most if Rebecca goes to St. Louis.  Randall was able to have Rebecca through the first years of both of his daughters.  Years from now he and his girls can reminisce about Grandma because she was there for them.  He is denying Kate and Jack the same thing.  

  • Like 22
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
39 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I was hoping that in scenario 1 they would have gotten an actress that looks similar to Kate but was average looking (say size 12-14).  I always thought that Kate's weight issues were tied to Jack's death and that asshole boyfriend. 

I wonder if they could have successfully aged up the actress who plays teen Kate, and used her more plausibly. 

  • Like 6
  • Useful 7

Share this post


Link to post

What is Randall going to do if Rebecca is not accepted into the trial?

  • Like 4
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Roxie said:

What is Randall going to do if Rebecca is not accepted into the trial?

I think we know the answer--barge in, give his patented Pearson monologue about why Rebecca is so important to him the guy with two sets of parents, etc. until the doctor in charge relents and admits Rebecca into the study.  

  • Like 7
  • Laugh 17

Share this post


Link to post

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

It's been mentioned upthread a couple of times, but it doesn't make much sense that Kate is still morbidly obese in the scenarios where Jack lives. 

Problem is, they can't have Chrissy in the scene and have her be thin (unless they want to do some major digital editing, I suppose), even if it would make more sense that she wouldn't have gained so much weight if Jack had lived.

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I don't know much about clinical trials, but my understanding is that one cannot simply just decide to participate in a clinical trial.

Yeah, I was thinking about that, too. She can't just show up and say, "Hey, sign me up!" It's not a class at the local community college. The people running it would have to evaluate her and see if she's a candidate to participate. And Randall isn't thinking about the possibility that she would not get the treatment they're testing, or that the treatment will be ineffective, or even that it could make things worse. He says, "This could save her life." But it could also ruin it.

I was hoping that at the very least, she would agree but be rejected for some reason or another. But then Randall couldn't hold that over the others' heads.
 

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

It's interesting who qualified and didn't qualify for inclusion in Randall's fantasy. Kate's life was relatively unchanged (although she earned herself a different husband in the reboot). Kevin is a semi-successful member of Jack's company proud that they scored a contract from the city to build two houses (what major city contracts companies to build two houses? Two apartment buildings, sure. A housing development, maybe. And I guess no individual wants to buy those beautiful houses that Jack designs). Rebecca remains the same - there to dote on Randall - just either happy or sad depending on the vision. Jack is Jack - either forgiving or not of his wife.

Speaking of forgiving Rebecca, I notice that Nicky doesn't rate any mention at all. When Rebecca was telling Jack that she doesn't want to keep any secrets, Jack gets to be shocked and outraged at her behaviour and lack of trust. I guess Jack didn't have the epiphany because he might have remembered that he too had a secret in Nicky. But, Randall doesn't care about Nicky, so he doesn't factor into the fantasy of post-fire Jack's reaction. Sorry, Nicky, enjoy your leaky trailer. William gets your turn as Pilgrim Rick. 

  • Like 18
  • Useful 1
  • Laugh 2

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I can't see Randall expecting Rebecca to move halfway across the country for this trial if Rebecca and Miguel had moved to Philly last year.  He would have looked to see if she could be part of the trial while still staying at home.  Because, you know, he cannot lose her.  Rebecca spending nine months in St. Louis would be him losing her.  He is still pissed that she dared to move to be near Kate and Kevin.  I really hope that the confrontation next week is Kate laying in to Randall instead of Kevin.  Kate and Baby Jack are the ones who stand to lose the most if Rebecca goes to St. Louis.  Randall was able to have Rebecca through the first years of both of his daughters.  Years from now he and his girls can reminisce about Grandma because she was there for them.  He is denying Kate and Jack the same thing.  

Randall always needed to have "mommy" to himself.  He loved the fact that his siblings were living across the country.  When baby Jack was born and Rebecca moved to LA to help Kate caring for a special needs baby, Randall was pissed and JEALOUS.  The fact that mommy would also be living near Kevin instead of him sent Randall over the edge of reason.  

Randall keeps throwing it in Rebecca's face that HE took care of her when Jack died.  The fact is that Randall was being self-serving.  In his mind, being mommy's helper gave him an edge up on his siblings.  He was the "good" son.  I think Rebecca was really strong after losing everything, including Jack in the fire.  Randall attended college nearby so he could help is mother was because HE needed to be needed.

 

  • Like 21

Share this post


Link to post

I read an interview with the show runners, and they describe Randall’s manipulation as divisive because half think he made the right call.  Really, show runners?  Who in their right mind thinks this guilt trip is fine?  And funny how St. Jack and Randall conveniently forget Jack’s big secret.  Nope, only Rebecca is the horrible, abusive one.  I hope Miguel, Kate, and Kevin rip into him next week.

  • Like 15
  • Useful 1
  • Surprise 3

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, A.Ham said:

Wow, Randall. He was unforgivably manipulative. Painting himself as a hero for not confronting his mother, only to run around and absolutely guilt trip her into doing what he wants. If he was so concerned about what the confrontation would do to her, he could have found other ways to address that within himself. What a prick. 

I had hoped for a more balanced alternate universe where we got a taste of how it would affect the whole family. Instead, we got this. Meh.

I agree.  It seemed lazy, even.  Like they didn't want to even try to flesh out the other characters' alternate lives.

 

10 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Who was the Ethan that Kate was married to in the 2nd scenario?  Have we ever seen or met him before (in flashbacks)?  Since Kevin ends up with Sophie, I thought Ethan must be somebody we were suppose to know.  If the scenario was supposed to be what Randall feared, why didn't they just make the husband Mark?

I'm not sure we've seen the last of Mark.  He may still kill himself or something, so Randall couldn't figure out how he could shoehorn Mark into his fantasy world, in a plausible way.  After all, that would require Randall to think about someone other than himself for longer than he would like.

 

5 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

About halfway through Randall’s second hissyfit, I couldn’t help but think “I bet Jack is glad he went back into that house.”  His birth mom should consider herself lucky as well.  Holy crap, Randall is exhausting.  

hahaha!  Ugh, you're not wrong.

 

4 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

For those conspiracy theorists who thought that the actress had secretly lost significant weight and was padded this season, this is the episode where the pads would have come off, because with Jack alive, there would be no reason for Randall to think Kate would have gained so much weight.

Yes, I meant to add that as part of my post last night, that I was expecting to see Kate a little slimmer, because of all of this talk about the actress being padded.  I thought this was going to be the reveal of the transformation.  Or maybe she is wearing pads still, and that was another way to show what a selfish prick Randall is; that he wouldn't think about that, because it isn't his problem.

 

3 hours ago, DanaMB said:

I gave up on this show last season then came back. Has it always been so Randall centric? I’m really getting tired of it. 

Join the club! 

 

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Randall probably didn't put that much thought into the lives of his siblings, except to diminish Kevin's fame and wealth.  I bet the writers/producers were trying to figure out how to present a slimmer Kate but couldn't come up with a good alternative.

You got it.  One of the reasons that this alternate-reality episode's potential was wasted, because it was in selfish Randall's delusional POV the whole time.

 

14 minutes ago, kili said:

Speaking of forgiving Rebecca, I notice that Nicky doesn't rate any mention at all. When Rebecca was telling Jack that she doesn't want to keep any secrets, Jack gets to be shocked and outraged at her behaviour and lack of trust. I guess Jack didn't have the epiphany because he might have remembered that he too had a secret in Nicky. But, Randall doesn't care about Nicky, so he doesn't factor into the fantasy of post-fire Jack's reaction. Sorry, Nicky, enjoy your leaky trailer. William gets your turn as Pilgrim Rick. 

I was wondering why/saddened we got no Uncle Nicky!  Especially since I noticed Griffin Dunne was in the credits, but then maybe he has been, all this time...even though we haven't seen him in ages!

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She probably deteriorates so fast that ethically, they have to stop the trial, or, at least, her participation in it.

I don't think so, because there are years between the scene in the cabin and (presumably) Rebecca's deathbed in the flash forward. I don't think she'd last that long?

Is there always a double blind in a clinical trial? Is there still a chance that she does it, loses those nine months with her family, and doesn't even get the drug?

11 hours ago, slasherboy said:

That's Pam Adlon and she has her own show called "Better Things".  She used to be on Louis CK's show too.

I still forget it's not Janeane Garofolo.

This is the first episode of the show I actively disliked. I guess that was the point (Showrunner says it was meant to be divisive), but oh wow, Randall. WTF? As others mentioned, I do think it's extremely telling that in Randall's AUs, Kevin is not a successful, famous actor. And also that he seems to have forgotten (assuming they all knew) that Jack's heart condition was inherent and he probably would have had that heart attack sooner rather than later. Especially if his 'worst' scenario played out and Jack kept drinking and treated Rebecca like shit for years over her 'lie'. Gah. I hated it.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

The clinical trial just can't happen.  Maybe Rebecca's husband will put his foot down.

This is the best possible outcome, IMO. I hope, hope, HOPE that Rebecca tells Miguel why she's doing it and he flies to Philly and kicks Randall's ass.

  • Like 19
  • Useful 1
  • Laugh 3

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, kili said:

I'm not his therapist, but this entire episode is a convincing case that Randall is a Narcissist.

I have always thought Randall was a narcissist. This episode just proved it.

I think Rebecca doesn't get accepted in the trial but Kevin (and maybe Kate) are absolutely furious with Randall for manipulating/bullying their mother. And rightfully so.

Just so I'm remembering things correctly.  We have had one flash forward that is 15ish years in the future and Rebecca is dying and one flash forward that is this September.  Randall isn't shown in the September flash forward but is in the one 15 years from now.  Is that all right?

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size