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S03.E18: Heartbreak

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1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Shaun kept saying that the surgery for the little person patient was a mistake and he shouldn't agree to it because he would probably end up paralyzed.  I was really worried that was going to be the outcome, just because Shaun is the lead character and the writers were going to make him be right. 

Speaking of which it really wasn't Shaun's ep overall was it? Wrong about the surgery, menacing Leah, generally being a mopey self entitled shit. 

I watch the show as to me it's a comedy but for the people who take it seriously, I wonder how this will affect how they see "The Good Doctor". He came across more like a villain than the hero.

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I've never really been a fan of Carly, so I didn't like she and Shawn being together as a couple.

I liked Lea. She's fun and a "seize the moment" kind of girl, very outgoing, and she's good for Shawn. She gets him to break out of his rigidness and experience life in a broader sense than he has, and it's exhilerating, and he loves it, while he, when they're together, has a way of balancing out all that wildness that she exudes. I thought that they completed each other. However, Lea has been shown toying with Shawn. For his part, Shawn didn't see things until others pointed them out to him. Morgan saw Lea being possessive of Shawn, and Carly saw that Lea, as well as Shawn, had feelings for each other. 

Lea really is very selfish and immature. She clearly has feelings for Shawn but she doesn't feel he is worth the trouble of dealing with her own issues or changing her bad habits to enter a romantic relationship with him. Yet, despite that, she still behaves like a dog marking a fire hydrant every time she comes in contact with him. Everyone wants to say that it's simply Shawn's fault that he can't take 'no' for an answer, but fail to address that Lea had been sending him mixed signals for a while. Being autistic, he has a harder time processing these complexities. Now he's hurting, and it makes perfect sense that he should be allowed to tell the person who did the hurting exactly how he feels about it -- sans baseball hat, of course.

I no longer want Lea and Shawn to be a couple but, since season 1, have seen Shawn and Claire being romantically involved as a possibility. In fact, what if after all this, they both realise after all their failed relationships, that they were always meant to be together? The fact that Claire was the only one to go see Shawn after he'd been missing work to give him the "enough is enough" speech and nudge him back into life tells me a lot. Or when he was fired previously and Claire was the only friend to have his back. Just friends? Maybe, but there's definitely room for something more. Claire, oftentimes, "gets" him. She's not only beautiful but sympathetic, patient, kind, and has a great capacity for understanding people.

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53 minutes ago, Belle Fleures said:

However, Lea has been shown toying with Shawn. For his part, Shawn didn't see things until others pointed them out to him. Morgan saw Lea being possessive of Shawn, and Carly saw that Lea, as well as Shawn, had feelings for each other. 

Lea really is very selfish and immature. She clearly has feelings for Shawn but she doesn't feel he is worth the trouble of dealing with her own issues or changing her bad habits to enter a romantic relationship with him. Yet, despite that, she still behaves like a dog marking a fire hydrant every time she comes in contact with him. Everyone wants to say that it's simply Shawn's fault that he can't take 'no' for an answer, but fail to address that Lea had been sending him mixed signals for a while.

I agree with most of what you’re saying here except the part about Lea having real feelings for Shaun. I see the “dog marking a fire hydrant” behaviors as more of an ego thing — and as far as I can recall, that didn’t start until Shaun had a girlfriend. She strikes me as one of those women who have to have the attention of every man in the room, even the ones she doesn’t really want, and most especially the ones who are already taken, because then she “wins”. (Notice also that like the type of woman I’m describing, she doesn’t seem to have any girlfriends to hang out with.)

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1 hour ago, Belle Fleures said:

I've never really been a fan of Carly, so I didn't like she and Shawn being together as a couple.

I liked Lea. She's fun and a "seize the moment" kind of girl, very outgoing, and she's good for Shawn. She gets him to break out of his rigidness and experience life in a broader sense than he has, and it's exhilerating, and he loves it, while he, when they're together, has a way of balancing out all that wildness that she exudes. I thought that they completed each other. However, Lea has been shown toying with Shawn. For his part, Shawn didn't see things until others pointed them out to him. Morgan saw Lea being possessive of Shawn, and Carly saw that Lea, as well as Shawn, had feelings for each other. 

Lea really is very selfish and immature. She clearly has feelings for Shawn but she doesn't feel he is worth the trouble of dealing with her own issues or changing her bad habits to enter a romantic relationship with him. Yet, despite that, she still behaves like a dog marking a fire hydrant every time she comes in contact with him. Everyone wants to say that it's simply Shawn's fault that he can't take 'no' for an answer, but fail to address that Lea had been sending him mixed signals for a while. Being autistic, he has a harder time processing these complexities. Now he's hurting, and it makes perfect sense that he should be allowed to tell the person who did the hurting exactly how he feels about it -- sans baseball hat, of course.

I no longer want Lea and Shawn to be a couple but, since season 1, have seen Shawn and Claire being romantically involved as a possibility. In fact, what if after all this, they both realise after all their failed relationships, that they were always meant to be together? The fact that Claire was the only one to go see Shawn after he'd been missing work to give him the "enough is enough" speech and nudge him back into life tells me a lot. Or when he was fired previously and Claire was the only friend to have his back. Just friends? Maybe, but there's definitely room for something more. Claire, oftentimes, "gets" him. She's not only beautiful but sympathetic, patient, kind, and has a great capacity for understanding people.

I thought they would go in this direction for a minute too, but then I realized they were not going to let 

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On 3/11/2020 at 12:40 AM, KaveDweller said:

And wasn't the first drug working okay, it just had side effects. Obviously not a good long term solution but it seems like there are other things to try. I get how hard it must be for her though, to know what you love and not be able to do it really sucks.

The first drug worked great. The only problem was nausea. You'd think they could wait a few weeks, see if the sideffect subsides on its own, if that doesn't work, try a related drug, or if all else fails, manage the nausea with a different drug.

It's often the case with severe illnesses, that you have to manage a drugs sideeffect with other drugs. As long as it works and doesn't cause any other bad sideeffects, no biggy.

You'd certainly try all of that before you go to "Imma gonna go and cut out all of my joints, ya'll!". I'm with @Suzysite . Who writes this shit?

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11 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

I think it highlights again how he is not capable of social interactions and relationships. I think the writers have kicked an own goal here because that was probably not their intent. 

I don't see Leah as flaky. She likes Shaun but in the end is out for a good time and knows that Shaun will just be obsessive and over the top. She probably didn't know to what extent a good time was more important to her at first but has worked it out. And besides he kicked her out of the apartment all because Carly wanted him too. He is hardly a good friend himself. 

 

Shaun definitely needs a social skills therapist.

Leah is flaky in a way that she plays off as spontaneous manic pixie dream girl.

9 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

I don't think Glassman meant for him to tell her let alone shout it at her with a baseball bat in his hand threatening violence against her car! I don't think I could deal with someone like Shaun, always having to be so careful with what you say to him and how you say it because he will take it in the most literal and extreme sense. 

Given she works in the same building as he does now he is really courting trouble. She doesn't even have to go the cops she can report him for harassment and he is toast. I think he is impulsive himself though which is probably why he likes impulsive women. I don't see Leah as being all that extreme and I saw the woman the dwarf was dating as probably more humiliated she dated a dwarf and got cheated on. It appeared to me that she thought the relationship was more serious than it was to him. As cold as it sounds when you date someone who is "lower" than yourself (pun kind of intended) you think you will always have the upper hand. 

I'm waiting for Glassman to go postal on Shaun and all his B.S.

Glassman needs to give Shaun a come-to-Jesus moment before Shaun goes over the edge and becomes completely unlikable.
 

1 hour ago, Prower said:

The first drug worked great. The only problem was nausea. You'd think they could wait a few weeks, see if the sideffect subsides on its own, if that doesn't work, try a related drug, or if all else fails, manage the nausea with a different drug.

It's often the case with severe illnesses, that you have to manage a drugs sideeffect with other drugs. As long as it works and doesn't cause any other bad sideeffects, no biggy.

You'd certainly try all of that before you go to "Imma gonna go and cut out all of my joints, ya'll!". I'm with @Suzysite . Who writes this shit?

And the nausea with MTX can be managed in most patients - usually with anti-emetic drugs such as Zofran. Some patients can also take a Folic acid supplement every day except the day before and day of the MTX dose - which has been known to help with side effects.

RA is a very researched illness, she has many more options than two drugs - if they wanted to have a super high risk thing like "let's cut out my joints so in 5-10 years my bones are grinding on each other line teens at the prom" they should have at least had their medical consultants come up with something rarer where the next line of treatment would be that - or she wouldn't want to do the next line because it would be too noticeable, or something

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Shaun's reaction to Lea's rejection is sooo damn triggering. I hate this storyline.

I'm here for Claire and Melendez but this was the first time I realized how uncomfortable this dynamic could be. When Melendez told her she made him a better person...ay yi yi. And Claire has always had a crush on him so of course hearing that is confusing for her. I think Melendez realized he was in too deep when he went back to Claire in the bar but he isn't doing anything to stop himself. The way he is rationalizing it to himself is he is just helping a friend through a tough time but it's too late, he's already fallen for her. This could get messy.

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8 hours ago, bros402 said:

Glassman needs to give Shaun a come-to-Jesus moment before Shaun goes over the edge and becomes completely unlikable.

...and unemployable as well.

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On 3/11/2020 at 7:37 AM, CarpeFelis said:

Even though I for one REALLY dislike Lea, I thought it was hitting way below the belt when Shaun threw in “no one likes you”. How the hell does he know? Has he met everyone she knows? (Maybe I’m just seeing this through a dirty lens/personal hot button. I had an abusive parent who loved to tell me “no one will ever like you”. That was projection and not about me at all, but that’s adult me talking. Kid me believed it.)

I felt the same way -- dislike Lea but thought Shaun went too far. But his parental lens is dirty, too. He might have heard "no one will ever like you" from his dad, and it just popped out and got added to the string of complaints he was listing against Lea.

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34 minutes ago, ForReal said:

I felt the same way -- dislike Lea but thought Shaun went too far. But his parental lens is dirty, too. He might have heard "no one will ever like you" from his dad, and it just popped out and got added to the string of complaints he was listing against Lea.

Given how his father treated him, that seems very likely.

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On 3/9/2020 at 11:10 PM, Annber03 said:

'Cause at this rate I'm thinking Shaun and Lea aren't even going to be friends when all is said and done. 

I really don't see how they can be.  With what he actually said to her - spewed at her actually - how do you come back from that?  I don't think you can.

On 3/10/2020 at 2:55 AM, bros402 said:

Why weren't the cops called on the ex who smashed up the dude's car?

I think that he would have had to call the cops on her, but he didn't, because I think that he feels some guilt over the situation and that repairing his car is the price of having multiple girlfriends at the same time who don't know about each other.

On 3/10/2020 at 8:52 AM, vibeology said:

I guess the lesson of the week is men and women can't be friends.

That would make me sad if that is what they are going for because that's bullshit.  I have been married forever and I have male friends that I see and even meet for lunch from time to time.  I have zero romantic attraction to them at all and if they have any attraction to me, they have done an excellent job of hiding it over the years.  So, I do think that it's possible.

On 3/10/2020 at 10:05 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Plus, they are not peers.  The power is unequal and there's no way it can truly be a workable arrangement.

I cannot fathom how they will ever sell this because we just went through the whole Lim/Melendez romance.  This is exactly the same: Boss and subordinate.  Not ok.

Edited by aemom · Reason: Typo
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4 minutes ago, aemom said:

I really don't see how they can be.  With what he actually said to her - spewed at her actually - how do you come back from that?  I don't think you can.

I think that he would have had to call the cops on her, but he didn't, because I think that he feels some guilt over the situation and that repairing his car is the price of having multiple girlfriends at the same time who don't know about each other.

That would make me sad if that is what they are going for because that's bullshit.  I have been married forever and I have male friends that I see and even meet for lunch from time to time.  I have zero romantic attraction to them at all and if they have any attraction to me, they have done an excellent job of hiding it over the years.  so, I do think that it's possible.

I cannot fathom how they will ever sell this because we just went through the whole Lim/Melendez romance.  This is exactly the same: Boss and subordinate.  Not ok.

Actually, for Melendez and Claire, it seems more disproportionate, imo.  Certainly, the hospital has some written rules on it.  But, with Lim and Melendez, it was different. Didn't they meet with the director to disclose and confirm it was not a violation? 

With those baseball bats...........I thought of this song.

 

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46 minutes ago, aemom said:

I cannot fathom how they will ever sell this because we just went through the whole Lim/Melendez romance.  This is exactly the same: Boss and subordinate. 

Boss and subordinate but the difference is that Lim is the Chief of all the department, Melendez is Claire's boss as long as she's on his service.  They can move Claire to Andrew's service and Melendez is no longer her boss. He's still superior but no longer her superior.

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46 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Actually, for Melendez and Claire, it seems more disproportionate, imo.  Certainly, the hospital has some written rules on it.  But, with Lim and Melendez, it was different. Didn't they meet with the director to disclose and confirm it was not a violation? 

With those baseball bats...........I thought of this song.

 

I thought of this video:

 

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Wow, so when they started exploring Shaun's love life, I was not expecting the theme Watch Our Hero Turn Into an Abusive Incel.

Certainly Lea hasn't always been careful or considerate wrt Shaun's feelings, not that anything she's done or could have done would make it a good look for him to *threaten her with a baseball bat* wtf. She should've called the police and alerted the hospital. Also, I'd be a lot more sympathetic to Shaun if that inconsideration and selfishness hadn't been a two-way street, and also if he hadn't been similarly inconsiderate and selfish wrt Carley for most of that relationship. 

I'm also kind of uncomfortable with how they're sort of setting his autism up as an excuse for him, as that can seem to suggest some pretty unfortunate things about autistic people. It might be a better idea to tie into his abusive childhood and how that's formed his ideas about what's acceptable relationship behavior. 

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1 hour ago, tapplum said:

I'm also kind of uncomfortable with how they're sort of setting his autism up as an excuse for him, as that can seem to suggest some pretty unfortunate things about autistic people. It might be a better idea to tie into his abusive childhood and how that's formed his ideas about what's acceptable relationship behavior. 

Was just about to say, somebody in a discussion elsewhere suggested that could explain some of his behavior as well. It'd make perfect sense and be a logical route to explore. 

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

With those baseball bats...........I thought of this song.

 

I thought about that song, too.

2 hours ago, aemom said:

I really don't see how they can be.  With what he actually said to her - spewed at her actually - how do you come back from that?  I don't think you can.

If it can be shown his behavior there was a total aberration, and if he actively gets therapy and apologizes sincerely to her for his actions, and things like that, then maybe, maybe they might be able to get past this. But of course, that's a BIG "if" and "maybe", and it'd be a long, long road, for sure. 

Even then, though, yeah, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Lea distanced herself and ultimately broke off their friendship after this, and she'd be right to do so. Maybe that would have to be the wake up call Shaun needs. 

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25 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Lea distanced herself and ultimately broke off their friendship after this, and she'd be right to do so. Maybe that would have to be the wake up call Shaun needs. 

Hmm, I bet it will turn out to be the wake up call Leah needs and she will forgive Shaun and tell him all the things that have gone wrong for her and why she is such a flake (including what happened when she went home), and they will end up better friends than ever. 

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3 hours ago, tapplum said:

 It might be a better idea to tie into his abusive childhood and how that's formed his ideas about what's acceptable relationship behavior. 

Shaun knows that this isn't acceptable relationship behaviour, he was in one with Carly and she didn't take a baseball bat to his things when he picked Lea over her. He also he saw the reaction of the others when the girlfriend took a bat to the car.  Shaun also knows that it's not acceptable professional behaviour to say "I'm not doing this surgery" and walk out on his job.  He just doesn't care.

Shaun is having a hissy fit because for once he can't get what he wants no matter what he does. It's true that he's worked very hard to overcome the challenges that his neurological system created for him. But it's also true that he's been cut a lot of slack by Glassman and the other doctors and even Lea herself, and now he thinks he's entitled to get what he wants if he works for it.

You can't make someone love you and when you can't it really hurts.  But we all have to learn to accept it and suck it up. Shaun doesn't get a pass because he's on the spectrum. even i he thinks he should.

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5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Actually, for Melendez and Claire, it seems more disproportionate, imo.  Certainly, the hospital has some written rules on it.  But, with Lim and Melendez, it was different. Didn't they meet with the director to disclose and confirm it was not a violation? 

They met with HR when they were first dating, but when it came time to promote one of them, they lied and said they had split up. 

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On 3/9/2020 at 10:33 PM, catrice2 said:

No way Shaun is having those tantrums and still working as a surgeon.  I 'm over it. I am ready for him to join a support group or get an unbiased mentor who can objectively help him work on coping strategies. 

I know my opinion here will probably be very unpopular, but Shaun is probably my least favorite person on this show. He has no business being a surgeon, especially not one in constant contact with patients, because he has no coping strategies. Not until he can learn to deal with patients and deal with other people. Glassman raised him, right? It seems like Shaun never went through any kind of therapy, and you'd think that a neurosurgeon would have known to do that, to help Shaun learn coping skills, because life is hard enough as it is. I have an almost 13-year old with high functioning autism who I put through several years of therapy (speech, occupational, etc) so that he would be able to deal with life and not have a breakdown and meltdown over the tiniest thing (because I knew he'd be miserable if I didn't). And Shaun has been babied so much by everyone (except by Daniel Dae Kim's character) so I'm really glad that Dr. Melendez called him out on his behavior this time. It certainly has not been the first time that Shaun has spoken inappropriately towards patients or co-workers, but they let it slide every single time. Until now. I really want to like Shaun, but for me, they are making it difficult. I really hope that he starts to consider therapy and damnit, no love life BS until he does.

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16 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

...and unemployable as well.

I thought that was a given!

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On 3/12/2020 at 5:10 PM, statsgirl said:

You can't make someone love you and when you can't it really hurts.  But we all have to learn to accept it and suck it up.

The problem is last we heard, Lea told him she does love him, not even a "I love you as a friend" (which she did tell him the first go round).  So from Shaun's perspective, Lea loves him, and he just has to remove the barriers that are stopping her from being with him.  Either the writers are being lazy leaving that elephant in the room hanging there, or Lea should be more direct with him.

But yeah, his behavior is unacceptable.  Am I really supposed to feel bad for him that he can't get the hottest girl on the show?  Okay, that's very much up for debate, I agree, but still, boo hoo.

20 hours ago, Kenadi O said:

Shaun has been babied so much by everyone (except by Daniel Dae Kim's character) so I'm really glad that Dr. Melendez called him out on his behavior this time.

I was feeling very much "You go, Dr. Melendez" in that moment.

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Going strictly by this show, I would want Shaun consulting with diagnosis and treatment but not as my surgeon. 

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2 hours ago, Quiet1 said:

Going strictly by this show, I would want Shaun consulting with diagnosis and treatment but not as my surgeon. 

Definitely.

It's also like how someone would not want Dr. House as their doctor, but he'd be great for a consult.

(I saw a doctor who was pretty much like House minus the limp or drug addiction. Absolute genius, he knew it, but he had negative bedside manner. I have no idea why the man left the lab to start seeing patients.)

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 Probably unrealistic, but I wondered why they didn't consider splitting the difference, so to speak, with the arm guy. Sensation in one hand and grip strength in the other might have been an easier compromise to make - and if they did no procedure at all on the remaining arm, if he decided down the road that the prosthetic was functional enough that he'd be willing to take on a second to relieve his pain, it would still be an option.

Joining the 'holy hell Shaun please get emotional and/or occupational therapy' chorus. Maybe if Claire tells him that she's seeing someone, he might be willing to accept that it can be a good thing and not just another accusation that he's different ergo inferior.

 

On March 10, 2020 at 8:52 AM, vibeology said:

I guess the lesson of the week is men and women can't be friends.

Seriously. I was really hoping they'd buck the stereotype with Shaun and Lea and/or Claire and Melendez.

 

On March 10, 2020 at 12:40 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

To me, Leah played coy with Shaun.  If she truly wasn't interested, then why did Carly get the exact opposite impression.  Leah said a lot of things, but, her actions said another.

Lea might well have feelings for Shaun, which Carly could pick up on, but you can be attracted to someone and still make a decision that you don't want to be in a relationship with them. I wish someone had told Carly (or reminded Shaun) that Lea already rejected him. Carly might still have decided she didn't want to be second choice, but at least she wouldn't have urged him back at Lea on her way out.

 

On March 11, 2020 at 12:08 AM, tennisgurl said:

And by "they"I clearly mean the plot, because all of this seems to exist just for DRAMA, and not the drama that happens because of naturally occurring character dynamics, but because shows think that people love watching people be mean and jealous and petty because I guess thats what love does.

Thank you. I feel like such a broken record these days saying 'ugh, can we quit with the relationship nonsense' about almost every show I watch, but it's mainly because I see no point in caring about these pairings when I know they'll inevitably go down one of these distasteful roads because 'happy couples are boring'. Romantic conflict is a lazy crutch and if the writers can't fill up enough screentime to go a single episode without using it, they're lousy writers.

 

On March 11, 2020 at 4:21 PM, DarkHorse said:

I don't think I could deal with someone like Shaun, always having to be so careful with what you say to him and how you say it because he will take it in the most literal and extreme sense.

This. In Lea's shoes, I could maybe be friends with Shaun, but a base requirement for romantic partner in my book is being able to let down your guard and relax around someone. A guy with unpredictable emotional fits, even if they aren't motivated by anger or cruelty (...until this episode, at least) would hit a lot of buttons that I can't handle having hit.

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7 hours ago, bros402 said:

It's also like how someone would not want Dr. House as their doctor, but he'd be great for a consult.

The thing about House was his cases tended to follow a certain pattern.  His first few attempts at a diagnosis would be wrong, and one would end up killing the patient, but they would revive him in a code blue.  Then he'd have an epiphany - very much like Shaun does - and he'd get the diagnosis right in the end.

 

1 hour ago, Emma9 said:

I wish someone had told Carly (or reminded Shaun) that Lea already rejected him. Carly might still have decided she didn't want to be second choice, but at least she wouldn't have urged him back at Lea on her way out.

Yeah, Carly's role in all this is kind of unusual.  She knew Shaun really wanted Lea, so she sent him off to her.  Could have been a kind of revenge move knowing he would get rejected like she felt Shaun had rejected her (emotionally).  But Carly thought that Lea reciprocated those feelings for him, and that, combined with Lea telling Shaun she loves him, troubles me.  Because I feel like the writers are setting them up as endgame, which I don't really want to see.

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1 hour ago, Emma9 said:

I wish someone had told Carly (or reminded Shaun) that Lea already rejected him.

Like Glassman, who instead offered hope that "maybe" Lea would tell him she loved him back. 🙄

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7 hours ago, rmontro said:

Yeah, Carly's role in all this is kind of unusual.  She knew Shaun really wanted Lea, so she sent him off to her.

Carly seems to me someone who is insecure about her attractiveness.  If she thought that Shaun preferred Lea to her, she would step back to avoid getting hurt even more.

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11 hours ago, ForReal said:

Like Glassman, who instead offered hope that "maybe" Lea would tell him she loved him back. 🙄

Which she did.

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Carly seems to me someone who is insecure about her attractiveness.  If she thought that Shaun preferred Lea to her, she would step back to avoid getting hurt even more.

It's a complicated situation.  I imagine a lot of people wanted someone else before they got with their current mate.  But Carly thought Lea felt the same way about him.  Which she said she did, but apparently is so neurotic she doesn't think she can act on it.  The situation is worse because Shaun still kept Lea in his life.  I don't blame her for stepping back, I'm sure I would have done the same.  Would you really want to be in a relationship where your S.O. says "I would rather have my best friend here, but since I can't have her I guess I'll stay with you".  No thanks.

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Catching up late, and I haven't read through all the comments, so keeping this short:

We spent most of the season with Shaun and Carly just so he could end it hung up on Lea?? Thanks -- I hate it. It'd be one thing if I thought this was the end of Shaun/Lea but I'm fairly certain TPTB are thinking they're 'meant to be'; so I WILL be 'nope-ing' out of that when the show decides to go a third round with them.

In better 'shipping news -- Melendaire, rise!! 😃  "Being around you makes me a better surgeon. A better person." *squeeeeeee*

How childish was Shaun in this episode?! Not a good look.

Cases of the week were interesting, and not too outlandish. I've missed Andrews.

So no follow-up to Park and his son's story from the last episode? They need to stop sleeping on Will Yun Lee. Also, when was the last time we saw Glassman's wife?

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If they are going to write Shaun having so many problems with social interactions, I still think they should have started the series when he was younger: med school or even undergrad.  Assuming he has made progress in the past several years, he must have had a rough time in school.

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3 hours ago, Driad said:

If they are going to write Shaun having so many problems with social interactions, I still think they should have started the series when he was younger: med school or even undergrad.  Assuming he has made progress in the past several years, he must have had a rough time in school.

Starting him in med school would've been a much smarter decision if they wanted to have him progress - but it feels like he has regressed in his social skills since the start of the series - he has also had more trouble adapting to differing situations.

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I don't recall that well what Shaun was like in season 1 but ...

I think what the writers are going for is that having dealt with the tasks for becoming a doctor (how to speak to patients, interacting with colleagues etc.), they're spending this season exploring Shaun's romantic life/growth.  It started with him approaching Carly, then went into the problems Shaun has getting into a relationship and misunderstandings with Carly, and their physical romantic life. After a brief moment of peace, they blew that up by inserting Lea into the equation again.

Much of Shaun's regression this season seems to be related to his romantic triangle.  I can see the logic behind it even though I'm not enjoying it.

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Is a bit bothered by people calling Shaun an asshole. He doesn't have the usual social constructs. Calling out the writing, that's fine, but someone who isn't "neurotypical" won't react in expected ways.
 

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On 3/12/2020 at 5:06 PM, bros402 said:

Shaun definitely needs a social skills therapist.

Leah is flaky in a way that she plays off as spontaneous manic pixie dream girl.

Glassman needs to give Shaun a come-to-Jesus moment before Shaun goes over the edge and becomes completely unlikable.
 

I guess that is what Glassman is supposed to be but he needs to be a lot harder on him. He just needs his ass kicked, a lot, as in all the time lol. 

On 3/12/2020 at 10:34 PM, ElectricCityy said:

Shaun's reaction to Lea's rejection is sooo damn triggering. I hate this storyline.

I'm here for Claire and Melendez but this was the first time I realized how uncomfortable this dynamic could be. When Melendez told her she made him a better person...ay yi yi. And Claire has always had a crush on him so of course hearing that is confusing for her. I think Melendez realized he was in too deep when he went back to Claire in the bar but he isn't doing anything to stop himself. The way he is rationalizing it to himself is he is just helping a friend through a tough time but it's too late, he's already fallen for her. This could get messy.

I don't see any chemistry between Melendez and Claire. Melendez seems a lot more straight laced than Claire, I can't see it being entertaining for us. Well, kind of, in a Carly/Shaun kind of way. 

On 3/13/2020 at 5:18 AM, tapplum said:

Wow, so when they started exploring Shaun's love life, I was not expecting the theme Watch Our Hero Turn Into an Abusive Incel.

Certainly Lea hasn't always been careful or considerate wrt Shaun's feelings, not that anything she's done or could have done would make it a good look for him to *threaten her with a baseball bat* wtf. She should've called the police and alerted the hospital. Also, I'd be a lot more sympathetic to Shaun if that inconsideration and selfishness hadn't been a two-way street, and also if he hadn't been similarly inconsiderate and selfish wrt Carley for most of that relationship. 

I'm also kind of uncomfortable with how they're sort of setting his autism up as an excuse for him, as that can seem to suggest some pretty unfortunate things about autistic people. It might be a better idea to tie into his abusive childhood and how that's formed his ideas about what's acceptable relationship behavior. 

LMAO that is what I thought. He is like a child who has just had his fave toy taken from him. He just wants the sex. Someone needs to teach him how to achieve orgasms alone. 

I hated that too, just branding people prejudiced or whatever because they don't want him. Makes me wonder if that is how he became a surgeon, just pushing people and shaming them whenever he heard something he didn't like. 

On 3/13/2020 at 8:10 AM, statsgirl said:

Shaun knows that this isn't acceptable relationship behaviour, he was in one with Carly and she didn't take a baseball bat to his things when he picked Lea over her. He also he saw the reaction of the others when the girlfriend took a bat to the car.  Shaun also knows that it's not acceptable professional behaviour to say "I'm not doing this surgery" and walk out on his job.  He just doesn't care.

Shaun is having a hissy fit because for once he can't get what he wants no matter what he does. It's true that he's worked very hard to overcome the challenges that his neurological system created for him. But it's also true that he's been cut a lot of slack by Glassman and the other doctors and even Lea herself, and now he thinks he's entitled to get what he wants if he works for it.

You can't make someone love you and when you can't it really hurts.  But we all have to learn to accept it and suck it up. Shaun doesn't get a pass because he's on the spectrum. even i he thinks he should.

So is he that socially incapable that he just mimics what others do? Because that is really what it seemed like to me. There wasn't any rhyme or reason behind his actions. Like a teenager who dyes their hair a certain colour because they have seen someone else do it. 

I would have understood if the woman got her man back but she didn't achieve anything. 

I agree, I think that he has been given way too much slack and perhaps the next stage of the show will be seeing the world turn on him. 

On 3/13/2020 at 4:27 PM, Kenadi O said:

I know my opinion here will probably be very unpopular, but Shaun is probably my least favorite person on this show. He has no business being a surgeon, especially not one in constant contact with patients, because he has no coping strategies. Not until he can learn to deal with patients and deal with other people. Glassman raised him, right? It seems like Shaun never went through any kind of therapy, and you'd think that a neurosurgeon would have known to do that, to help Shaun learn coping skills, because life is hard enough as it is. I have an almost 13-year old with high functioning autism who I put through several years of therapy (speech, occupational, etc) so that he would be able to deal with life and not have a breakdown and meltdown over the tiniest thing (because I knew he'd be miserable if I didn't). And Shaun has been babied so much by everyone (except by Daniel Dae Kim's character) so I'm really glad that Dr. Melendez called him out on his behavior this time. It certainly has not been the first time that Shaun has spoken inappropriately towards patients or co-workers, but they let it slide every single time. Until now. I really want to like Shaun, but for me, they are making it difficult. I really hope that he starts to consider therapy and damnit, no love life BS until he does.

I only watch it casually but to me it's a comedy. It has to be and it's not just Shaun. The doctor who flashed her breasts at the kid for example. The car wreck relationship of Shaun and Carly. It's all too much. 

Shaun is a mess and although he may have the medical knowledge he has very little else. If I were in hospital and he said he was going to be operating on me I would laugh and then find someone else. I don't believe in real life he would be anywhere near the level he is in this show. 

On 3/14/2020 at 5:42 PM, bros402 said:

Definitely.

It's also like how someone would not want Dr. House as their doctor, but he'd be great for a consult.

(I saw a doctor who was pretty much like House minus the limp or drug addiction. Absolute genius, he knew it, but he had negative bedside manner. I have no idea why the man left the lab to start seeing patients.)

House was different though. Grouchy, rude, arrogant sure but he was mentally capable. 

I would choose House over Shaun any day. 

On 3/15/2020 at 1:24 PM, Trini said:

Catching up late, and I haven't read through all the comments, so keeping this short:

We spent most of the season with Shaun and Carly just so he could end it hung up on Lea?? Thanks -- I hate it. It'd be one thing if I thought this was the end of Shaun/Lea but I'm fairly certain TPTB are thinking they're 'meant to be'; so I WILL be 'nope-ing' out of that when the show decides to go a third round with them.

In better 'shipping news -- Melendaire, rise!! 😃  "Being around you makes me a better surgeon. A better person." *squeeeeeee*

How childish was Shaun in this episode?! Not a good look.

Cases of the week were interesting, and not too outlandish. I've missed Andrews.

So no follow-up to Park and his son's story from the last episode? They need to stop sleeping on Will Yun Lee. Also, when was the last time we saw Glassman's wife?

The whole Carly/Shaun thing seemed like a waste of time to me. Seemed Carly existed to get Shaun hooked on sex and then when it ended he turned to Leah hoping to get a fix and then becoming aggressive when he was turned down. Has he not been paying attention???

 

On 3/15/2020 at 2:07 PM, Driad said:

If they are going to write Shaun having so many problems with social interactions, I still think they should have started the series when he was younger: med school or even undergrad.  Assuming he has made progress in the past several years, he must have had a rough time in school.

It seems they are retrofitting him a little. How did he make it through college and life in general up to now? 

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1 hour ago, nokat said:

Is a bit bothered by people calling Shaun an asshole. He doesn't have the usual social constructs. Calling out the writing, that's fine, but someone who isn't "neurotypical" won't react in expected ways.
 

He doesn't have the usual social framework, but he should understand just from observed behaviors that bringing a bat to someone's car and screaming at them is not proper behavior. He could have asked anyone, and they would have responded in a way that indicated that behavior was improper.

This show is pretty bad at portraying autism - especially after seeing the *amazing* portrayals of autism (by actors with autism!) or Freeform's Everything's Gonna Be Okay.

22 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

House was different though. Grouchy, rude, arrogant sure but he was mentally capable. 

Shaun is mentally capable - he just has a lot of difficulties with social situations and emotional regulation. Which is a much different thing from being "capable"

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1 hour ago, bros402 said:

This show is pretty bad at portraying autism - especially after seeing the *amazing* portrayals of autism (by actors with autism!) or Freeform's Everything's Gonna Be Okay.

Should probably watch that.  Is high on the spectrum. I watch what people react to and how normal people react.

 

Should not have said "normal" but it's what I think of other people.

 

Edited by nokat

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1 hour ago, bros402 said:

shaun is mentally capable - he just has a lot of difficulties with social situations and emotional regulation. Which is a much different thing from being "capable"

I'll beg to differ. He is an idiot savant, great at one thing but lacks capabilities in other areas. He is also very immature, the whole baseball bat thing highlighted that. 

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6 hours ago, DarkHorse said:

I'll beg to differ. He is an idiot savant, great at one thing but lacks capabilities in other areas. He is also very immature, the whole baseball bat thing highlighted that.

He saw someone else release their anger that way. Notice he didn't actually do it. Leah has been playing mind games with him, and he just doesn't know how to deal with it.
 

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28 minutes ago, nokat said:

He saw someone else release their anger that way. Notice he didn't actually do it. Leah has been playing mind games with him, and he just doesn't know how to deal with it.

I feel like it's doing a disservice to the level of function he's supposed to have if basic ideas about right and wrong (destruction of property or threat of same) are beyond his grasp. Most of his difficulties early on were about grasping subtle nuances and empathy - for instance, while we as viewers can speculate that Lea might be scared of having the bat turned on her, I can buy that Shaun wouldn't necessarily see it from that perspective. But the notion that he thought it would be okay to emulate Carrie Underwood in the first place just because he saw somebody else do it first feels less reasonable.

And if he really is that suggestible, that's pretty dangerous for him too, considering how many patients he'll end up treating who've injured themselves with crazy stunts and whatnot, and just underlines that he needs help with social coping mechanisms.

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5 minutes ago, Emma9 said:

I feel like it's doing a disservice to the level of function he's supposed to have if basic ideas about right and wrong (destruction of property or threat of same) are beyond his grasp.

There's a difference between logic and emotions. He's incredibly logical but emotions aren't logical. We've seen he's not good at bedside manners, but in my experience most surgeons aren't.

Maybe because the writers are neurotypical and aren't writing it well.
 

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I always thought that Leah moving in with Shawn was a huge mistake because she is a natural flirt and it gave him, an autistic who sees things in black and white, hope. When she finally interacted with Leah for more than 5 minutes, Carlie saw it too. But there was no call for Shawn's assholish behavior towards absolutely everyone in this episode.

Edited by Whodunnit · Reason: Because it's Leah not Leia
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I agree that Carly's view of things wasn't entirely accurate--she believed that Leah was in love with Shawn, when really she's that fun, flirty, free spirit type around most men.

Anyway, I hope that the saga of Leah and Shawn is over, Shawn gets some therapy, and no one on this show ever picks up a baseball bat again l... Unless they are playing baseball.

Edited by Whodunnit · Reason: Because it's Leah not Leia
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6 hours ago, nokat said:

There's a difference between logic and emotions. He's incredibly logical but emotions aren't logical.

At least to me, it didn't read like an impulsive emotional action. He had to get the bat from somewhere (or choose to hang on to the one the patient's girlfriend was using, I don't recall if it was the same one), transit to Lea's car, then wait until she was watching so he could start brandishing it.

 

3 hours ago, Whodunnit said:

I always thought that Leah moving in with Shawn was a huge mistake because she is a natural flirt and it gave him, an autistic who sees things in black and white, hope.

It's good for Shaun to learn about nonverbal communication and hints. However, it also seems like a good idea for someone to give him an additional, perfectly black-and-white rule to live by: "No is a complete sentence." If someone says no but you think they feel differently...or says no but you think it's an illogical decision...or says yes but then later says no...err on the side of caution and back off. If they're going to keep exploring romances for him, that point needs to be made.

Edited by Emma9
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If I were Leah, I'd be getting a restraining order against Shawn.  WTF?  That entire time in the deserted parking garage, it was unclear to me if Shawn would swing that bat at Leah. 

No, Shawn, you aren't entitled to a woman's love or attention regardless.  No means no.  GTFO.

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@emma9 and @izabella, you both made good points. Tried to quote you but was having difficulty. If someone brought a bat to meet me and screamed insults I would be terrified too.
 

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8 hours ago, nokat said:

He saw someone else release their anger that way. Notice he didn't actually do it. Leah has been playing mind games with him, and he just doesn't know how to deal with it.
 

I'd say Shawn was more menacing than the woman who actually did use the bat. Why? Because the woman was more hysterical and I never felt that she would use the bat against the dwarf. She also had a good reason to be angry (although I still don't agree with her methods) she had been led to believe something that wasn't right. 

Shawn was angry without justification and Leah was his friend  before anything else. I sat there wondering if he was going to take a few swings at her as well. He was also scary becaiuse he was imitating the woman. If she blew the dwarf's car up would he have turned up at Leah's with a Molotov cocktail? 

Leah and Carly both played games with him but that is where he needs to realize he isn't cut out for relationships or just walk away when he sees women starting to play silly games. 

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1 hour ago, nokat said:

Tried to quote you but was having difficulty.
 

This forum makes it so much harder than necessary to format posts.

 

34 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

Leah and Carly both played games with him but that is where he needs to realize he isn't cut out for relationships or just walk away when he sees women starting to play silly games. 

That's pretty much my point with the "no means no" thing. If someone gives him a 'genuine' no and he forges on regardless, obviously that leads to the other party feeling pressured or worse; if someone tells him no but really means they want him to chase them harder...that person would probably be a bad partner for anyone, let alone Shaun. So accepting rejection at face value can only help him in the long run, but I doubt he'll be told that by his colleagues-as-therapists instead of stereotypical TV 'fight for love!' advice.

Edited by Emma9
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