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S16.E16: Leave a Light On

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7 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Denny seemed to be the love of Izzy's.

I agree on the Doug/Carol comparisons in general in how ER’s version vs Grey’s worked better but for that one point. I never thought Denny was the love of Izzie’s life. Pity and guilt seemed to be the basis of that relationship to me. 
 

Also, I don’t think the comparison to ER is entirely fair, as that show had the benefit of Marguiles (and Clooney) actually participating in it on camera. 

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Wait, Alex two-timed Jo?  With Izzie?  Who secretly had his twin babies?  And divorced and left Jo his hospital shares?  And traipsed off to Kansas???

Grey's has always been more than a little soapy, but this was just to too much. First time I heard him say "Izzy" (i.e.. 10 minutes in) I realized I'm out...dun done...and was going to turn off the dvr and erase the episode BUT

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 I liked Alex and Izzy back in the day, even shipped them but they are no Doug and Carol. 

I waited until the very last minute to see if they would have Kathryn Heigl and Justin Chambers together as the kids jumped on them,......but no, not that satisfaction like Doug and Carol in ER (and I still cant believe, even 20 years later, that they were able to keep that a secret).

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We are losing Alex no matter what. It sucks no matter what way you slice it. They decided to just give Alex A happy ending. May not be the best for all involved but whatever. He didn't die. He didn't get eaten by wolves or whatever. I'm happy about that.

TV shows like this should never go on this long. People, at some point, will want to bail. Things like this are bound to happen. 

 

Thanks for the excellent dose of reality

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Side bar: I laughed out loud at Alex leaving Jo his hospital shares. First they were Cristina's, who dumped them off to Alex, and now they're Jo's... the doctors who leave Seattle Grace Mercy Death really don't want anything to do with it when they're gone. lol 

Actually, thank you for the truly excellent continuity and dose of reality!

Edited by AriAu
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Honestly, let's say that we HAD to have Alex/Izzie as endgame. Here's what they should have done to make it a little less shitty:

  1. Have Alex visit Jo offscreen. Maybe Jo could have been at home and the door opens. We don't need to see Alex to know that he's come home. 
  2. Alex and Jo, offscreen, can have a nice, long talk about their relationship and the complicated history with Izzie. Have them decide, TOGETHER, that Alex should move to Kansas to be with his kids. 
  3. They shouldn't have tossed Alex into bed with Izzie right away. They could have left that part open-ended, with the audience wondering if Alex/Izzie got back together or were just co-parents
  4. The letters to Bailey/Richard could have still happened. 
  5. Alex should have gone to either visit Meredith or phoned her to let her know. After how Meredith took off after Derek's death and she still called Alex personally to let him know what was going on, he should have done the same thing here. 

See? That way, basically Krista would have gotten the same ending for Alex's story, just with changes that would have satisfied the audience more than...whatever the hell they did here. 

Because, if the voiceover was done by Justin and it was all new dialogue (I guess it was), Justin sounded like he was phoning it in (literally and metaphorically). The ADR made it seem like it was an entirely different actor at times, or that they were splicing together dialogue from the character over the last 16 years. And this ending makes Alex look as shitty as Izzie did when she first left Alex. No matter the fact that Izzie at least came back and gave Alex the choice to break things off for good, she still initially left...through a letter...and ended things that way. Oh look, like Alex just did to Jo, except a bit worse because we know Alex isn't running back to Jo any time soon.

See? The above would have been a much better ending for Alex, while maintaining whatever fanfiction Krista cooked up while also not completely butchering Alex as a character.

Edited by Lady Calypso
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Also, Alex would have likely had to file for divorce in Washington - he wasn't in Kansas long enough to establish residency/jurisdiction over the case. So he came to Washington to get a divorce but couldn't be bothered to see anyone while he was there?  That's silly. They could have made it less silly with him informing Jo that he was going to give her everything she wanted in the divorce as opposed to him already doing the documents.

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13 hours ago, Daisy said:

I'm not even being funny. George had it better, and he was literally thrown under a bus. 

And Alex was sent off to live happily ever after ON A FARM. “Hey, kids, Rover went to live on a farm upstate”...

Bad joke, writers. Really bad joke.

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Nope Nope Nope...   I hated this episode....   

First off....   you don't just file for divorce and then send the signed ppwk to someone....   The other party must be notified and there is generally a waiting period before the final decree happens.

Then, poor Jo...   takes the last name of the one person that she feels  loved her.  And then gets dumped by him for his ex and unknown kids?

I get the attachment to the kids... and even the attachment to Izzy because she made them....  but really....   come on!!!   Leave the woman who you JUST married on Halloween???

I am really so angry over this....    I was all for Alex and Izzy back in the day....   but then Izzy left Alex high and dry.... and now Alex did the same thing to Jo!!  It was nice to see Alex evolve after Izzy left.  And then they just trashed all his character with this one episode.

Auntie Mer...   Really?  If I was Auntie Mer I'd still be pretty upset with him... and well, he wont even take her calls or answer her texts... so some friend there.....   Evil Spawn

Bailey and Richard....  it was nice that he said his goodbyes....   but those two letters to me really didn't seem like it was all that necessary.  And goodness... it's not good bye like Alex fell off the face of the earth...  you can still communicate with these people!!   Geesh!!!!

I would have rather seen an episode where after Jo and Meredith read their letters - that they got together to comfort each other. 

Last night..... was the first time in all these years of Grey's - that I actually hope that next year is the last season. 

 

Edited by DenverDogLover
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1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

I agree on the Doug/Carol comparisons in general in how ER’s version vs Grey’s worked better but for that one point. I never thought Denny was the love of Izzie’s life. Pity and guilt seemed to be the basis of that relationship to me. 
 

Also, I don’t think the comparison to ER is entirely fair, as that show had the benefit of Marguiles (and Clooney) actually participating in it on camera. 

Actually....   I kept thinking the whole entire time that they are ending it with a letter.....   Like Carter did to Abby

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Late into the game right now.

We came to see a farewell to Alex episode and instead got a middle finger from the show. Why didn't they just have kill him off. It would have been just as shocking but at least be inspiring and less coming off as a cowardly rat.

Character consistency? Who cares? Just create THIS for shock value. I mean who cares whether the character has changed just trash it all. I guess this what happens when you piss off the showrunners.

And you know the show is going to push Jo with Linc (UGHHHH).

Edited by redfish
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I wanted to write my opinion before reading anything here so my ideas wouldn't be affected by other comments yet.  

I'm glad they didn't kill Alex. First, because killing off characters is way overdone on this show. Second, because I think 99 percent of viewers expected that to happen. Way too predictable.

IMO the writers did pretty well considering what the cards they were handed.  I would never have believed Alex would go back to Izzy, but they made it believable with the flashbacks, new scenes, and his explanation about why he contacted her. 

It's almost like the writers had foreshadowed this a long time ago, with Jo's concerns about the embryos and how he didn't seem to want kids with her.  Even though Alex supposedly wanted nothing to do with Izzy every again, he built up an elaborate happy fantasy life for her.  

As he said in Jo's letter, this is the worst thing he has ever done.  I even repeated that back to the TV.  "Yes, Alex, this IS the worst thing you have ever done."

It creates the possibility of a more interesting story for Jo as how she will deal with this.  The show has already done too much 'grieving partner' because of death.

 

 

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Well I didn't hate it. The reality is this is a tv show, not real life, so I don't hate Alex or the writing of the episode, given what they were to work with - no Justin Chambers to show up and film his departing story.

At least they didn't kill him and totally break our hearts again like they did with so many of past doctors on the show.

What father could look at those two incredibly beautiful miracle children knowing he'd missed out on 5 years of their precious lives and not want to spend every waking moment of the rest of his life with them being their dad, being there for them.

The beautiful perfect farm setting too! Who could settle for a part time life with the true love of his life, those beautiful kids, in a perfect setting? Someone had to be the bad guy, the evil spawn, but I think they did well by him on this fairy tale ending.

He's a child compassionate pediatrician who had his own dream come true in those precious children that were HIS! Along with an Izzy that we all know was his hearts real true love.

Of course Jo would end up getting the brunt of this painful ending. Someone had to. I was never an Alex/Jo fan to begin with, tho I agree it was a crappy way to tell her goodbye. They didn't have him to do an actual person to person goodbye, so letters it was.

Jo, the strong one will move on as all the rest of the drs who lost their true loves did, on this show.

I was really happy for Alex at this ending. I always loved Izzy and him after Denny, my favorite character died and broke her heart.

I think they did a good job of giving Alex a legitimate reason for leaving, when they did not have him able to be there to give his reasons. I can't fault the writing of this episode, and no, I do not work  the shows staff, lol.

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I never seen an actor exit a show like this in my life unless they were fired.  But the response of the show runner and costars and their avid praise of Justin indicates an emergency because there appears to be zero hostility or resentment towards his leaving.  This is television show.  Most people know real life problems are more important.  It's a less than ideal exit but the assumption based on nothing that he ditched out for no cause is egregious.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Honestly, let's say that we HAD to have Alex/Izzie as endgame. Here's what they should have done to make it a little less shitty:

  1. Have Alex visit Jo offscreen. Maybe Jo could have been at home and the door opens. We don't need to see Alex to know that he's come home. 
  2. Alex and Jo, offscreen, can have a nice, long talk about their relationship and the complicated history with Izzie. Have them decide, TOGETHER, that Alex should move to Kansas to be with his kids. 
  3. They shouldn't have tossed Alex into bed with Izzie right away. They could have left that part open-ended, with the audience wondering if Alex/Izzie got back together or were just co-parents
  4. The letters to Bailey/Richard could have still happened. 
  5. Alex should have gone to either visit Meredith or phoned her to let her know. After how Meredith took off after Derek's death and she still called Alex personally to let him know what was going on, he should have done the same thing here. 

See? That way, basically Krista would have gotten the same ending for Alex's story, just with changes that would have satisfied the audience more than...whatever the hell they did here. 

That would have worked for me. Here's my scenario: Alex calls Jo and Jo leaves, only saying she's going to see Alex. She's gone for an episode or two and when she comes back she gives letters to Bailey and Richard and she and Meredith talk (Meredith has talked to Alex offscreen by this point). We learn that Alex had called, telling her about the kids, and she had gone to Kansas to meet them. Alex, understandably, wanted to be near them and they talked about Jo moving out there. But the more she saw Alex with the kids and with the kids and Izzie, the more she felt like she didn't belong. So she and Alex decided that she would go back to Seattle and he would stay in Kansas. Jo's free to move on and it's left to imagination whether Alex/Izzie eventually get back together. 

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Ton of replies I still need to go through, but gosh... can we cuss here? I mean really, I want to let out a string of 4-letter words here, but I'll shorten it to this: WTF???

This is what they decide to do with the character who has been my favorite because he is the only one (to me) that has shown true character growth. He went from being someone who was a total jerk (to put it nicely--and boy did I cringe at those flashback scenes) to someone who was mature and caring and a leader.

I have flip-flopped in my feelings about Jo over the years. At first, I completely shipped them as a couple, but as an intern, and paired up with Stephanie, she got to be so incredibly annoying (not to mention the drama she consistently started with Karev--and let's not even bring up that Deluca incident) and I just had no interest in the 2 of them ever being together again. But eventually, she didn't bother me so much anymore (sorry, but separating her and Stephanie was the best thing--because really, I liked Stephanie better when she wasn't around Jo), and she and Alex kind of grew on me a little bit again. Or at least I stopped being bothered by them being together.

See, this Alex would not have left his wife. Wouldn't have even entertained the thought of it. Izzie was a memory to him, nothing more. Sure, I shipped him way back when, but she did him wrong and all of a sudden, I'm supposed to believe that she was his true love. But because I think they knew many of us would call BS on that, they threw in a couple of kids, because you know... awwww. Please. Meh.

I had to struggle to watch the rest of the episode after the first ten minutes. I know I'll be struggling to finish out the season (which at this point, I'm not even sure I want to do anymore--so far every episode since the post mid-winter break has been crap).

As a side note, the whole narrative was lame. I'm not sure if that was JC or not (I did think it sounded like him, but why not actually just come in and film his goodbye on camera? Heck, could have had him comatose or lying on a morgue slab, or as a confused John Doe because his mother had bashed his head in..., and I'd have been fine with it--albeit with lots of tears of course).

You'd think by now I'd learn my lesson and learn to expect Grey's to screw us over when it really matters.

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I am one who doesn't mind the story because I NEVER liked Jo, especially since Alex deserved better. He was the only one I really cared about the last few years and finally stopped watching last year. There is just no one on that show I care about. I never liked Amelia, Owen, Teddy, etc. Now the show is just about them, and an occasional Meredith, so I am glad to be done. From what I was able to watch on recaps, that sure didn't sound like Justin Chambers doing the voice. If it was him, I hope he is doing OK. And the only time Amelia was even tolerable to me was when she was with Linc, so, of course he will now be with Jo. Bailey hasn't been Bailey in so many years, but I do still like Richard (just not with his wife). But, I do think the worst character they ever had is/was Maggie.

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8 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

But, I do think the worst character they ever had is/was Maggie.

I disagree with much of your post, but we are in complete agreement on this. 🙂

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14 hours ago, hcs said:

I don't believe for a moment that was Justin's voice because just like everything else about this episode it sounded wrong.. I don't understand how having him destroy his like is better than simply killing him letting Jo believe she was loved

Oh God if they put Linc with Jo poor Amelia is going back to Owen..

 

Linc with Jo (both dull as dirt), Amelia back with Owen where she belongs, and Teddy with Greg Germann (can't remember his character's name) because they are great together.  I like this turn of events.  

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6 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I appreciated Richard's part I liked how he equated it with what happened with ellis

I thought he was talking about Maggie.  Her mother was the other woman he knocked up and wasn't married to.

I almost wish they'd put Alex into witness protection or something.  He could witnessed something nefarious and he has to go away to keep everyone else safe.  And he deliberately doesn't ask Jo to give up her life to come with him as a self-sacrificing gesture.  He loves her too much to risk her life.

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8 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I thought he was talking about Maggie.  Her mother was the other woman he knocked up and wasn't married to.

Isn't that Ellis though?

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1 hour ago, CarpeFelis said:

Why couldn’t they have had Alex writing to Jo saying that he found out about his kids so he’s rented a place near them so he can co-parent, and asking her to join him? Then they could have had a few episodes where Jo agonizes over whether or not to go, and if Camilla doesn’t want to leave the show, she ultimately makes the choice to stay in Seattle.

This would have been a better way to handle it since they obviously couldn't get JC back and wanted to give Alex a happy ending. That way he's not a complete and utter asshole to Jo and she gets to make the choice to stay in Seattle because Camilla probably isn't leaving and it's left open ended as to whether Alex/Izzie get back together romantically. 

I used to be all over A/I in the old days (wow it's so long ago now) but that ended after Ghost Sex and the Great KH will she/won't she come back? (No) drama. I haven't been on that train for a very long time and it feels really weird to be thinking about them together. Reminds me of the epics ship discussions/wars on TWOP, one of my first introductions to online fandom. 

I have never loved Jo/Alex but it truly sucks that they couldn't come up with a better ending for them after so long. I know their hands were tied to a certain extent but this feels like the nuclear option on Alex's characterization over the last few years. And Jo has been wronged so no need to grieve just hop straight on Linc now. Sigh. 

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14 hours ago, Daisy said:

 

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I said the same thing when they murdered Derek. (and I HATED DEREK). I get that Patrick Dempsey was difficult to work with and everything, i do. but you already gave him an out - he was working in Washington. WHY DID YOU HAVE TO KILL HIM?

No, I completely understood why they killed Derek off, and why they had to. He had a wife he loved, he had kids he adored. For him to have walked away from either of them, would have just been... well, we'd have been where we are with Alex now. It would have ruined the person that we knew Derek to be. But what I didn't like was the way they killed him, at some strange hospital with shit doctors who were too lazy to do their jobs right (you can believe I was cheering when Meredith gave that doctor hell during her hearing). Derek deserved to die at Grey-Sloan, surrounded by the people who loved him. Not the BS that Shonda fed us. Alex was the only thing that kept me watching after that.

 

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there is no way on God's green Earth that Alex would have abandoned Jo. Never. Not even for his two kids. he would have moved heaven and earth to make it work. even if he had to buy a plane or something. He would have made it work that he would have been in his kids life and still keep Jo in his.

I completely agree. Really, bringing those kids in was just a way for Krista to soften the blow for anyone who might not be happy with this write-off. Meh, didn't work for me. Cute kids, sure, but irrelevent.
 

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but I'm expected to believe that he found out about these kids and it made him realised he still loved Izzie who abandoned him, left him with debt, and all of this crap  - like to the point Izzie and Alex are apparently sleeping together? and this happened in the span of what? a few whatever it's been?

I totally shipped Alex and Izzie back in the day, but once she did that to him, I was done and way too much time has passed for it to be remotely believable.
 

 

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What a fun clip show that was! I stopped watching after Christina left, only checking in for the last episodes of Derek and Arizona. So some of the clips were totally new to me, though I really enjoyed the early season 1-3 clips. That was the height of the show. I thought it was interesting that they put so many clips of Alex being a f*ck up in there - more than one time beating the crap out of people, being arrested more than once, etc. Almost like they were trying to make the point that he wasn't so great so it didn't hurt so much he was leaving. For Izzie! I know they spun it to be all "he's doing it FOR THE KIDS" but honestly there were way too many adoring slow-mo shots of these random children and I started to hate them by the end of the hour. Whelp, see you all for the finale I guess!

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Now they can really complicate thing, make Jo pregnant and have her keep it a secret from Alex.

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4 hours ago, Daisy said:

This makes me more mad than when Arizona cheated on Callie and then blamed it on Callie for the most part.
 

That and blaming Callie for her amputation. I don't think she ever forgave Callie for that, as if her wife was to choose between her life and her leg and damn her, she chose her life. I despised Arizona after that.

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I commented about this last week but it really seems like the writers are deliberately trying to make us dislike everyone on the show. They all become assholes at one point or another. Not that Alex hasn't been an asshole before, but this really takes the cake on top of everything else they've done this season alone.

I'm not sure if they are trying to get the show cancelled, or if they are just really that tone deaf to how this looks. And I'm not sure which one of those things is worse. 

To those who are glad they didn't kill Alex off, since it leaves the door open for his return, my question would be  . . . would you really want him to return after this? After the crappy way he treated everyone? I don't see any feasible redemption for him now. If they had killed him off at least his integrity would have remained intact. The only good thing to come out of him returning now would be the opportunity for everyone to line up and take turns slapping the hell out of him.

I'm equally flabbergasted that Katherine Heigl and T.R. Knight gave their permission to use archived footage of them. Neither is working a lot these days so maybe they need the money but Knight, in particular, has good reason to be bitter. Sandra Oh left of her own accord so she's probably more willing but I noticed the only shot of Patrick Dempsey was out of focus in the background. 

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 (Seriously, what is the timeline on this show? It seems like weeks have passed in Seattle and months in Kansas. I've been to Kansas. They have winter too but there was just a blizzard in Seattle and yet it was summer on the farm

Bwah! Well spotted. Also? Not everyone in Kansas lives on a farm. Also also? Alex said he was in "nowhere Kansas," but his envelope was clearly marked Baldwin City. I realize he was being facetious but I'm offended on behalf of Baldwin City. 

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5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm equally flabbergasted that Katherine Heigl and T.R. Knight gave their permission to use archived footage of them. Neither is working a lot these days so maybe they need the money but Knight, in particular, has good reason to be bitter. Sandra Oh left of her own accord so she's probably more willing but I noticed the only shot of Patrick Dempsey was out of focus in the background. 

The producers don't have to have permisson.  Anything already filmed belongs to them to use as they please in the show

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12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Also? Not everyone in Kansas lives on a farm. Also also? Alex said he was in "nowhere Kansas," but his envelope was clearly marked Baldwin City. I realize he was being facetious but I'm offended on behalf of Baldwin City. 

Out of curiosity, I just googled Baldwin City, KS and according to wikipedia it has a land area of 2.64 sqare miles and a population of 4,515 as of the 2010 census. It is also home to Baker University, the state's oldest 4-year university, founded in 1858 with a student body of 3,076 in 2014. (It's about 15 miles from Lawrence, which has ~87K people.)

[I went to college in rural PA, in a town of about 11K (2010 census; student body was around 1500 when I was there in the mid-90s), and I often refer to it as Middle of Nowhere PA (it's actually near Harrisburg, Hershey, and Lancaster, so not really middle of nowhere. But it sort of feels that way, especially when you don't have a car).]

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The producers don't have to have permisson.  Anything already filmed belongs to them to use as they please in the show

Not so. See: Crispin Glover v. Back to the Future. 

Movies and shows cannot use archived or unused footage of actors without getting their permission and paying them something. They also need permission from the estate of dead celebrities to use their likenesses in commercials, etc. 

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I hate this ending for Alex. I NEVER felt like Izzie was the love of his life. And, in my experience, there are different kinds of love you have in relationships with different people at different ages. If a couple stays together from a younger age, then the love grows through those different stages. If they don't stay together, each person will mature individually and the love they experience in the next relationship would be just as real and deep as before, but it's different. You're more mature, and the way you love is also more mature. That's why I really liked him with Jo. I thought they had fought hard for their relationship, and had finally gotten to a really solid, mature place. They were happy. Then you have Izzie, who just walked away from Alex when things got hard. She didn't even care about Alex enough to try.

I'm fine with it if Link is Jo's person and supports her through this. But it needs to stay platonic.I really like Amelia with Link, and if they screw that up I'm going to be so pissed.

They could hook Jo up with someone from Station 19. I tuned in for Grey's early and saw about the last 15 minutes of S19, and Carina was on--apparently she's seeing/sleeping with the female captain there, and brought her lasagna. They also have a gay firefighter on there, so when Schmitt breaks up with Nico, he already has another option without them bringing in another new cast member. I don't mind these relationship crossovers with S19, since it provides a larger pool to make pairings from without bloating the cast even more.

But ultimately they just need to start wrapping up the show. They're really running out of stories to tell, or they just don't care enough to write compelling stories for each episode. Can you imagine them trying to go for 20 seasons, another four years of these mediocre stories?

On another note, I never watched a single episode of ER, but from all the comments here it seems like it's worth watching?

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Residual money is a great motivator.

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11 minutes ago, dvr devotee said:

On another note, I never watched a single episode of ER, but from all the comments here it seems like it's worth watching?

I loved ER. Not without its flaws, of course, but better than what Grey's has turned into, even towards the end.

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What cinched it as bad for me was the comment in Meredith's letter. He comments about the twins having sleep over and switching beds and ending up in "our bed." So Alex went from I'm going to meet my kids to daddy to sharing a bed and home with his ex-wife. All of this happening while his wife, best friend, co-workers, etc. don't know if he's alive or not. That just left me cold. It didn't have to be said. It could have been left vague as to whether or not he was pursuing a renewed relationship with her or still adjusting to fatherhood. 
 

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If Krista was trying to parallel E.R., there were a bunch of reasons why it didn't work;

  • Doug was always the love of Carol's life, The pilot episode had Carol trying to commit suicide because Doug dumped her.  Denny seemed to be the love of Izzy's.
  • Carol never really had another serious relationship after Doug. Luka tried but he was always. Alex had a truly loving marriage with Jo.
  • Doug grew up off-screen. Alex grew up on-screen and ended up in a relationship with Jo that was more mature than his relationship with Izzie (e.g. Alex and Jo stayed together through the problems and got through them together)
  • Doug knew about the twins. Carol didn't create Doug's children without his knowledge and never tell him about them.
  • Carol said proper goodbyes in person to her friends and co-workers before leaving.

There was also the connection back to Chicago because she left the twins with her mother while she traveled. He asks about them when he walks toward her and she says they are with her mother. So we know at that point that she plans to return to tie up loose ends. 

3 hours ago, Evie said:

That would have worked for me. Here's my scenario: Alex calls Jo and Jo leaves, only saying she's going to see Alex. She's gone for an episode or two and when she comes back she gives letters to Bailey and Richard and she and Meredith talk (Meredith has talked to Alex offscreen by this point). We learn that Alex had called, telling her about the kids, and she had gone to Kansas to meet them. Alex, understandably, wanted to be near them and they talked about Jo moving out there. But the more she saw Alex with the kids and with the kids and Izzie, the more she felt like she didn't belong. So she and Alex decided that she would go back to Seattle and he would stay in Kansas. Jo's free to move on and it's left to imagination whether Alex/Izzie eventually get back together. 

I was okay with him wanting to be near his children. That would mean a lot to him and would be hard for him to say, "oh well, I didn't know about them and she's raising them - see ya." But we are supposed to believe that he either heard via letter, email, or phone call from Izzy that he is a father and had no animosity about not hearing about it before. 

They could have even done a dramatic moment with Jo returning from Kansas and saying that Alex would be on the next plane. He could call her as she sits and waits to say that he just can't leave his children. Her response could have also shown growth in that she could realize that she has what she always wanted with her life in Seattle and won't join him there.  

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16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Not so. See: Crispin Glover v. Back to the Future. 

Movies and shows cannot use archived or unused footage of actors without getting their permission and paying them something. They also need permission from the estate of dead celebrities to use their likenesses in commercials, etc. 

The Glover lawsuit was about them hiring another actor and using special effects and makeup to make it look like Glover. 
 

Greys used clips from within their own show. They have to pay the actors and credit them but they don’t need their permission as long as it stays in house. Dead celebrities used in commercials isn’t the same at all. 

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6 hours ago, Daisy said:

"You had cancer, and we got married... and you died and you lived again...you left and you came back. We got through it. I got through it. and I'm on the other side."

"Iz, I love you so much. And I... till I met you, I got used to thinking I wasn't a good guy. Growing up in my family that's what they told me. And now, after all of it I know I'm a good man. I thank you for that. Because I know now I'm good enough not to deserve this. Not to have to feel like this. Not to love you so much that I almost hate you. I deserve someone that will stay. I'm happy you're okay. I'm happy about your job. and I want you to go. And be happy and not come back."
 

So basically. he's gonna do the exact same thing with Jo?  Seriously? Like again I'm never whitewashing Alex's sins or anything, but I never felt for one moment Izzie loved Alex as much as Alex loved her (even when they got married.). But yet still they had a talk and they realized they still loved each other?

This makes me more mad than when Arizona cheated on Callie and then blamed it on Callie for the most part.

THIS! This is what infuriates me the most - I literally did a whole rewatch of this show coincidently about 3 months ago, and I watched it with totally fresh eyes as I had seen it previously as it aired.. and back in season 5 when it aired I used to be a fan of Alex/izzie. However, on rewatch, it’s clear people are forgetting the little things (or to me, glaringly obvious) and the main thing out of all of those early seasons that stood out to me was how one sided that relationship was in actuality- izzie spent most of season 5 hallucinating Denny, and even when part of her realised he wasn’t there, had no problems sleeping and being intimate with his illusion. And while their wedding was a lovely gesture, in no time at all izzie had up and left and the above speech is happening...so for them to try and manipulate flashbacks of all the ‘good’ scenes of their relationship mixed with all the negative ones of Alex/jo after YEARS of showing exactly the opposite just screams contrived and feels like the writers are trying to rewrite history into something it wasn’t!
 

Also I know we got some wishy washy explanation but I am also very bothered by the fact 5 years after their DIVORCE izzie apparently decided it was all good to use fertilised eggs that were only fertilised by Alex due to her situation with her health AT THE TIME without any discussion with him about it? Is that even allowed/legal?? And he’s just fine with that? And not being told for another 5 years?? LOL

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2 hours ago, deaja said:

Isn't that Ellis though?

Yep.. Ellis was the woman for him.. He just couldnt make the move.. Part ego.. Part feeling like going with the white lady would be a betryal.   

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5 minutes ago, Rose-1 said:

I am also very bothered by the fact 5 years after their DIVORCE izzie apparently decided it was all good to use fertilised eggs that were only fertilised by Alex due to her situation with her health AT THE TIME without any discussion with him about it? Is that even allowed/legal?? And he’s just fine with that? And not being told for another 5 years?? LOL

Even if he had signed something in their divorce giving her custody or control of the frozen embryos, ethically it's a crappy thing for her to have done. And it is not something I'm sure he could easily forgive. 

As I said above, he mentions in the letter to Meredith, he and Izzie share a bed. He's not only recovered from the shock and betrayal of trust but decided to move on with her from what was supposedly a happy marriage with Jo. It would make more sense if he had said he was living nearby and getting to know his kids. Then he could have written (face to face being better but this show) to Jo and said that while he is there for his children, he has come to realize he still does have feelings for Izzie and wants to be free to explore those. Still crappy, but the way this was written indicates that he was a coward and put Meredith and Jo through the hell of his non-communication because he was too busy buying cowboy hats, riding tractors, filming his kids in the perpetual spring/summer of Kansas, and boinking his ex-wife. 

One of my best guy friends is a former co-worker. He isn't married, but I would freak out if he was gone without communication for weeks. You don't do that to people. You especially don't do it to people who have been through trauma that would make them paranoid about your well being. 

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Wasn't a fan. I agree with many of the posts already made about how much better it could have been done so that Alex wasn't shredded in the process. I loved Alex & Izzie way back when & I loved Alex & Jo these past few years. Now I want Jo to rip up the letter, sell the shares & live it up without an ounce of mourning or guilt.

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Now they can really complicate thing, make Jo pregnant and have her keep it a secret from Alex.

Well its Grey's & Owen seems to father the majority of the children so I think its more likely Jo will sleep with Owen. She's reeling from being dumped via a letter & Teddy just cheated on Owen. Presto! Another kid for Owen. (I just made myself a bit sick from typing that - I am joking).

 

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13 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

As I said above, he mentions in the letter to Meredith, he and Izzie share a bed. He's not only recovered from the shock and betrayal of trust but decided to move on with her from what was supposedly a happy marriage with Jo. It would make more sense if he had said he was living nearby and getting to know his kids. Then he could have written (face to face being better but this show) to Jo and said that while he is there for his children, he has come to realize he still does have feelings for Izzie and wants to be free to explore those. Still crappy, but the way this was written indicates that he was a coward and put Meredith and Jo through the hell of his non-communication because he was too busy buying cowboy hats, riding tractors, filming his kids in the perpetual spring/summer of Kansas, and boinking his ex-wife. 

And THIS is exactly why it feels like the writers just decided to stick the middle finger up to the character, and the jo/ Alex relationship  because they let him leave this show with no dignity whatsoever - when it would be been EASY to make the changes you mentioned and have it be more true and organic to the character we all know him to have grown into. There was just NO NEED for it to have been done the way it was. 

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56 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Not so. See: Crispin Glover v. Back to the Future. 

Movies and shows cannot use archived or unused footage of actors without getting their permission and paying them something. They also need permission from the estate of dead celebrities to use their likenesses in commercials, etc. 

Not the same thing.  Glover sued because they used his image without permission in a totally new movie,
In this case, the studio used previously filmed and shown video in another episode of an onging series.  That sort of fair use is included in their contracts.  Of course, they will be paid residuals for the use.  It would be different if they used Grey's videos in Station 19.  That would be beyond fair use. 

 

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19 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Interesting that she doesn't say thank you or "you're so great" or anything to Justin himself!
 

7 minutes ago, windsprints said:

Well its Grey's & Owen seems to father the majority of the children so I think its more likely Jo will sleep with Owen. She's reeling from being dumped via a letter & Teddy just cheated on Owen. Presto! Another kid for Owen. (I just made myself a bit sick from typing that - I am joking).

You're joking, but somewhere a Grey's writer is going "Well, wait a minute, we could do that...."

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1 hour ago, dvr devotee said:

On another note, I never watched a single episode of ER, but from all the comments here it seems like it's worth watching?

Oh yes!!!   ER is so worth watching.  Watched ER from the beginning and it evolved, just like Grey's.  Actually, at first, I didn't like Grey's because it just seemed like a whole bunch of interns sleeping with each other.  ER has the same thing, but to me seemed more geared to the medical end of the stories

Once it was announced ER was ending, I forced myself to watch Grey's and got attached to the characters. 

I would watch every episode of ER over again if I had it!  I have Grey's recorded on the DVR and have not gone back to watch many of them. Maybe it is the nostalgia if a show long gone that makes me so found of ER

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I will say this about the episode -- it got people talking. Already on page 4 less than a day after airing.

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Because of you we got to make great tv… because of you we got to make television history! [snip]. Thanks to our national treasure @therealdebbieallen and the writers for giving Alex Karev the best send off.”

Well Ellen Pompeo really seems to be enjoying this season. I can't say agree though.

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

Out of curiosity, I just googled Baldwin City, KS and according to wikipedia it has a land area of 2.64 sqare miles and a population of 4,515 as of the 2010 census. It is also home to Baker University, the state's oldest 4-year university, founded in 1858 with a student body of 3,076 in 2014. (It's about 15 miles from Lawrence, which has ~87K people.)

Would a city of 87K have need of an oncological surgeon?  Where I live, a city of 400,000 will have a cancer treatment centre but for surgery you'd have to go into the big city.

I guess that's why Izzy has time to run the farm, there's so little surgery for her

1 hour ago, dvr devotee said:

On another note, I never watched a single episode of ER, but from all the comments here it seems like it's worth watching?

It's worth having a look at to see if you like it.

Unlike Grey's, which has pretty much kept the show centred around its main cast as long as they remain on the show, ER went through three different casts in its 15 season as starring actors left the show and others came on although supporting characters remained. The first cast was the best known, Doug/Carol/Mark/Carter/Susan but I preferred the second cast of Abby/Luka/Neela/Carter.  Grey's needs new blood, but better than the current residents.

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1 hour ago, Rose-1 said:

Also I know we got some wishy washy explanation but I am also very bothered by the fact 5 years after their DIVORCE izzie apparently decided it was all good to use fertilised eggs that were only fertilised by Alex due to her situation with her health AT THE TIME without any discussion with him about it? Is that even allowed/legal?? And he’s just fine with that? And not being told for another 5 years?? LOL

Alex says specifically in his letter to Mere that he signed all his rights to the embryos away to Izzy -- in other words she could do as she pleased with them-- which she did.
As I posted earlier-- I liked this ending for Alex. He gets a happily ever after scenario. 

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21 minutes ago, taanja said:

Alex says specifically in his letter to Mere that he signed all his rights to the embryos away to Izzy -- in other words she could do as she pleased with them-- which she did.
As I posted earlier-- I liked this ending for Alex. He gets a happily ever after scenario. 

That’s why I said wishy washy explanation - they might have thought that was good enough, and maybe in some places it could be, legally - I can’t comment because I don’t know the law. But ethically ?? Morally ?? 

and I think a lot of people’s issue (definitely mine) is that even if she DID have the right to use them, Given the circumstances and the passage of time, and who alex has grown to be, they expect us to believe that not only has he got zero anger whatsoever about how she went about that - he’s processed all of that, rebuilt an entire relationship with her whilst cheating on his wife and fallen in love with her again in the space of a few..whatever it was on the show. 7 years ago - maybe. But where he was mentally and emotionally in his relationship with Jo, having just married her a second time - After all they’ve been through -  it completely defies Belief. 

 

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