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S01.E16: All Quiet on the Dextern Front

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On 3/9/2020 at 9:56 PM, Orbert said:

When he asked the girl out and we see that she has the same condition, I thought two things: (1) That's a cop-out. Only another person with Down would ever go out with him? and (2) No, that actually makes perfect sense. Maybe someone without the condition would, but the odds seem much higher if it were someone "like him".

I think he said they originally met somewhere else and she now works there. When I worked at a group home, the city in which I lived had events for the developmentally disabled members of the community that my clients would attend. I could see them meeting at Special Olympics or something along those lines and hitting it off but he was too nervous to pursue her at that point. 

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I think he said she was on the soccer team he played on.  I personally think it's great that developmentally disabled folks are becoming more mainstream, partly because it gives them the opportunity to meet each other, as in Ansel's case.

Ansel has shown a lot of growth this season, the most of any character on the show, actually.  I think you're right.  After learning to drive, living "on his own" (with Grey, but still), and everything else on his list, he was ready to ask her out.  Well, after a certain amount of prodding from the other guys.

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On 3/9/2020 at 10:56 PM, Orbert said:

When he asked the girl out and we see that she has the same condition, I thought two things: (1) That's a cop-out. Only another person with Down would ever go out with him? and (2) No, that actually makes perfect sense. Maybe someone without the condition would, but the odds seem much higher if it were someone "like him".

Since Ansel met her on the soccer team, maybe everybody on the team has Down Syndrome.

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Possibly.  I don't know the numbers.  Down syndrome is not that uncommon, but are there enough persons with it in the Portland area to have an entire soccer league?  I just assumed that he was on a "regular" intramural co-ed team of some sort, and that's where he met her.

Of course, since this is fiction, they could provide any backstory they want, but it helps if it's at least plausible.

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4 hours ago, Orbert said:

Possibly.  I don't know the numbers.  Down syndrome is not that uncommon, but are there enough persons with it in the Portland area to have an entire soccer league? 

I assumed it was a league (and maybe this "league" could potentially be as small as two teams who just always play each other...) for differently-abled people (not just Down syndrome), kind of like the Special Olympics? I would think the Portland area would be able to field a few teams (or at least that it wouldn't be hugely impossible to think they could...)

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On 3/6/2020 at 2:13 AM, possibilities said:

Why does anyone think torturing someone would make her more willing to help? Torture doesn't generate reliable information, because people will say anything to make it stop. It drives me crazy that the show is allowing the issue to be framed as "the prisoner being tortured vs the Americans being killed".

I don't think the show is framing the issue this way.  Her CO framed the issue this way, and Dex believed it.  I think the information from the other Marine will disprove this theory, but it was clearly what the CO was selling.

On 3/6/2020 at 8:29 PM, shapeshifter said:

So the episode title references the classic war story, “All Quiet on the Western Front,” in which the author realized in WWI trenches that he and his enemies were both just kids with weapons trying to stay alive. It is a creative interpretation to have female “soldiers” in Afghanistan.

I'm not sure why you put "soldiers' in quotations.  Dex is a real Marine, and there were a fair number of female military personnel in both Afghanistan and Iraq.  If you were intending to include the woman as the "enemy", it still doesn't work, because even if she is a non-combatant, Dex isn't. They aren't in the same position; it's that woman's home, life, children--versus Dex's survival (not nothing, but not the same as trying to make sure your kids survive).

The false equivalency of making her into a "soldier" is what the CO was doing, and what Dex was protesting.

Edited by Ailianna
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14 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

The false equivalency of making her into a "soldier" is what the CO was doing, and what Dex was protesting.

Zero Dark Thirty had lots of torture to find Bin Laden...but all dudes...If one of the females connected to the compound had been captured by the CIA, would the Jessica Chastain character behave differently? This might be where the writers wanted to go with Dex... 

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On 3/8/2020 at 4:46 PM, Thomas Crown said:

Bonus points for me for the casting of Doc from the Love Boat as the old neighbour.  

I didn't recognize him right off the bat, but as soon as he spoke, I was like... how do I know you? And then it dawned on me. Glad to see he's still around. (He'll always be Doc to me. Heh.)

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I don't have anything to add to comments on the episode itself, but regarding whether or not Dex is an alcoholic. It's possible the definition has changed, but I remember back in health class, we learned that being an alcoholic is not related to how much/how often you drink. There was an example we saw of someone who had just one drink every night but the person was incapable of skipping that one drink for one night. It's more about the reliance on it. I think the show is too all over the place to judge how often Dex does without or what her exact routine is with the alcohol. She clearly abuses alcohol in some way, but whether it's alcoholism I don't know.

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On 3/14/2020 at 2:01 AM, sinkwriter said:

I didn't recognize him right off the bat, but as soon as he spoke, I was like... how do I know you? And then it dawned on me. Glad to see he's still around. (He'll always be Doc to me. Heh.)

Me too.  It may have been cheesy but the Love Boat was fun to watch. 

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On 3/5/2020 at 1:53 PM, saber5055 said:

I was also irritated at how stupid the show runners think we are that Dex drives down a long lane, the only car, no houses, nothing in sight, and "surprises" Sue Ellen who is standing in a deserted pasture where it's dead silent, brushing a horse. "Oh, gosh, Dex, what a surprise, where did YOU come from?"

I think Sue was being sarcastic, that's how I heard it

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On 3/9/2020 at 7:56 PM, Orbert said:

Wasn't Ansel's original plan to move to a group home? 

That's what I heard, but that idea seemed to vanish later. I know TV shows don't generally deal in realism, especially financial realism, but for me what's been missing from this whole plotline is how can they afford to live independently in one of the most expensive areas of the country. (PDX is steep, even by California standards.) He likely doesn't earn enough for his own car and apartment -- a group home would make sense for him. But she may well rely on his SS income to make ends meet. (If this were reality.) Not saying family has to be shackled together; they each deserve an independent life. The money thing just keeps jumping out at me!

On 3/8/2020 at 2:46 PM, Thomas Crown said:

Bonus points for me for the casting of Doc from the Love Boat as the old neighbour.  

My BF was very impressed I identified him. Haven't seen him in years. How fun!

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On 3/6/2020 at 12:21 AM, paigow said:
On 3/5/2020 at 11:13 PM, possibilities said:

Why does anyone think torturing someone would make her more willing to help?

Jack Bauer

And the reason I never made it past the first episode of 24.

On 3/5/2020 at 12:28 PM, saber5055 said:

Do motel-room mini bars have a bill-zillion little liquor bottles? At however much they cost ($2, $5, $10 each?) their motel bill had to be sky high. I did get a kick out of how many times they said "Ukiah" though. Has to be an inside joke.

I've never been in a motel that low rent that had a mini bar (actually, never in a motel at all). There's also a Ukiah in Oregon - though it's even further off the beaten path.

On 3/5/2020 at 5:33 PM, saber5055 said:

He was a total dick to his adoptive parents in his episode. We've seen nothing to show us he's changed his opinion of the two people who raised and loved him, and he kicked them to the curb because OMG! HE'S ADOPTED! The horror!

I don't recall the scene too well, but I think it was partly a reaction to never having been told he was adopted. And I don't think it's unreasonable to be pissed off that your parents have lied to you all your life. Having a similar situation in our family (with less drama), the one who was adopted always knew, but only recently found us, and the impact of knowing your birth family cannot be overstated, at least in our case. On both sides it's been a wonderful, life altering event.

On 3/5/2020 at 5:44 PM, chaifan said:

Also, it wasn't just because he was adopted, but he found out he was essentially stolen from his birth mother.  I can't imagine anyone not freaking out about that just a little in real life. 

I knew there was a little more to that scene - I don't recall, did the adoptive parents know there was something sketchy about it? If they did, that would be another reason to be upset.
 

On 3/5/2020 at 11:13 PM, possibilities said:

Where does Miles end up? I suspect in the arms of his partner. I thought I saw more than professional banter between them.

And the chemistry, I thought, was better. Though pretty inappropriate.

On 3/5/2020 at 11:47 PM, yourmomiseasy said:

I usually just do LA to Sacramento or LA to SF and also usually just take the 5 because I'm in a hurry, but doesn't the 101 have more towns vs the farmland along the 5?  If I was worried about my car breaking down I might pick the route with more towns so I wasn't stranded without options.

Good point. Even with a second reliable car on hand, abandoning a car causes all sorts of complications. Especially if it's towed. Those fees rack up.

On 3/7/2020 at 12:10 PM, Dowel Jones said:

I couldn't believe the amount of liquor Dex drank at any one setting.  She's a small framed woman, and a half quart of whiskey is going to lay her out nearly unconscious, but there she is, chattering away in the most lucid manner.

Body mass ratio isn't the full picture with alcohol. If it were, I could drink like Dex and not feel it (in other words, I have more body mass). Instead, even a half glass of wine gets me tipsy. As I understand it, alcoholics have a higher tolerance, which doesn't mean they don't get drunk, just that they don't feel it sooner (I think).

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Why is it that, at least on tv, adoptive parents are considered liars if they don't tell the child he/she is adopted. Not telling someone something is not a lie in my world.

By the same token, if I know something but don't tell you, am I a liar? I know you are getting a promotion at work but I don't tell you. Liar. I know you are getting fired at work but don't tell you. Liar again, I guess.

I can't get my head around that way of thinking so I still think the adopted guy was a dick to the people who raised him.

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1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

Why is it that, at least on tv, adoptive parents are considered liars if they don't tell the child he/she is adopted. Not telling someone something is not a lie in my world.

By the same token, if I know something but don't tell you, am I a liar? I know you are getting a promotion at work but I don't tell you. Liar. I know you are getting fired at work but don't tell you. Liar again, I guess.

I can't get my head around that way of thinking so I still think the adopted guy was a dick to the people who raised him.

Fair enough. Withholding information that isn't yours to impart wouldn't be a lie in my book. It's more a rock and a hard place situation, because presumably you're in a position of knowledge and not allowed to reveal that information. Though if you were my friend and didn't tell me I was going to get fired, I might not feel too kindly toward you even if it's unfair.

However, a parent not telling their child something that fundamental would be a lie of omission, and if it never comes out, well then no worries, right?

But it's an unexploded bomb, and when it goes off and the information is revealed, it's likely to feel like a betrayal to the person who's just found out. Who will respond to it as having been lied to their entire lives.

I think people are allowed to have a negative reaction in situations like these. It upends their world and changes what they think they know about themselves. It's a very human reaction, imo. And as others have said, we know nothing about what's happened after he had time to calm down.

 

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13 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Why is it that, at least on tv, adoptive parents are considered liars if they don't tell the child he/she is adopted. Not telling someone something is not a lie in my world.

By the same token, if I know something but don't tell you, am I a liar? I know you are getting a promotion at work but I don't tell you. Liar. I know you are getting fired at work but don't tell you. Liar again, I guess.

I can't get my head around that way of thinking so I still think the adopted guy was a dick to the people who raised him.

High five, @saber5055. I don't consider many secrets or silences on matters to be "lies of omission" either. I heard about a culture that considered it compassionate behavior to never tell an elder that they are dying. There are a lot differences of opinion about what is and what is not a lie. I think it's important for people to get to know what to expect from someone with whom they are dealing, but not to expect them to change their ways. 

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why would you NOT tell your child they were adopted?

Not telling a child he or she is adopted is also a cultural thing--often generational. My ex-late mother-in-law, who would be 102 if she was still alive, thought we should tell my then-4-year-old that my husband was her father. I think the idea behind it was to make the adopted child feel equal to any siblings born to the parent(s). There have probably been times and places where not revealing adoption served the purpose of making children more obedient --or at least the parents thought it would. And then there's the issue I only see on TV of adopted children thinking their birth parents didn't want them, which, if they don't know they're adopted, they wouldn't consider. Regardless, it's pretty much like Santa Claus these days. But I did think the adopted guy in this show was being immature to still be mad at his parents for not telling him and for not appreciating all they did for him, even if he thought they were dumb not to tell him.

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