S21.E15: Swimming With The Sharks

[Xeliou66]

I thought I would go ahead and start the episode thread. 

The plot details are - The female CEO of a popular wellness company claims she was raped, but her business partner claims the accusation is part of an embezzlement coverup. 

[breezy424]

I'm so confused.  They were gas lighting Luna but wasn't Luna trying to seduce Bobby in the hotel?  At least that was my impression.  I didn't record the episode so I couldn't go back and replay it.

At least we had a lot of Carisi. 

But....no Ice T.  Sad face.

[Kleav]

2 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

wasn't Luna trying to seduce Bobby in the hotel? 

Definitely, and he seemed to be recoiling.

[MerBearHou]

So the all-knowing St. Olivia sniffed out that Luna was innocent and being gaslighted?  I thought Luna was seducing Bobby AND stealing from her company.  This was a bizarre one.  Hadid — and the actress playing her — not impressive at all.  Luna had a miraculously quick recovery from her crazy (well-acted) breakdown.  I did not like the episode at all.

[ShortyMac]

1 minute ago, MerBearHou said:

So the all-knowing St. Olivia sniffed out that Luna was innocent and being gaslighted?  I thought Luna was seducing Bobby AND stealing from her company.  This was a bizarre one.  Hadid — and the actress playing her — not impressive at all.  Luna had a miraculously quick recovery from her crazy (well-acted) breakdown.  I did not like the episode at all.

Yeah, I pretty much started tuning out at that point, rolling my eyes.

[Xeliou66]

This was an average episode on the whole - I hated it at the start with the PSA from St Olivia and the typical rich white he said/she said rape case - then it got more interesting with the accusations against Luna, but the episode might’ve been better if Luna had been guilty instead of being set up - it was predictable that she was actually innocent and that St Olivia saw through the whole thing and saved the day. 

Carisi was good once again, but I still can’t stand Hadid even though they are trying to make her more likable it seems, and she served no purpose, why couldn’t Carisi have done all of the things that she did, and she is still beyond dull and wooden and seems more like a plot device than a person.

No Fin sucked, it always does, and as a result Carisi seemed to have to take his place in a couple of investigation scenes that he didn’t really have a place in.

This was another episode where having a psych expert would’ve been nice, one was needed to evaluate Luna.

Overall I found the plot better than the usual rich white people he said/she said rape case because of the twists it took, but it was still predictable and had a fairly heavy dose of St Olivia worship. The episode was mediocre on the whole. 

[ChristiKRN]

I didn’t like this episode.  I should have liked it; there were some twists but the twists were predictable.  When Luna dismisses Melanie with Benson at the beginning followed by her attitude about Luna when she was initially interviewed, I knew she was somehow behind whatever was going on and I easily guessed that they were working on wanting her out of her own company.  I’m still hazy on if she was raped or not; it seemed risky for them to take it that far in case SVU believed that she was indeed raped and didn’t uncover their planted payoffs, etc. That part of the story was kind of pushed to the side.  The actress who played Luna was good, especially in the mental breakdown scene.  No Fin this week.  Kat was OK; nothing special this week.  There was the usual Benson pep-talk scenes with Luna wanting to use some Benson catchphrases.  I continue to be distracted by Rollins’ only facial reaction being an open-mouthed stare; I wonder how many bugs she swallows on a daily basis.  Overall, I was just underwhelmed tonight. 

[ChristiKRN]

48 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

This was an average episode on the whole - I hated it at the start with the PSA from St Olivia and the typical rich white he said/she said rape case - then it got more interesting with the accusations against Luna, but the episode might’ve been better if Luna had been guilty instead of being set up - it was predictable that she was actually innocent and that St Olivia saw through the whole thing and saved the day. 

Carisi was good once again, but I still can’t stand Hadid even though they are trying to make her more likable it seems, and she served no purpose, why couldn’t Carisi have done all of the things that she did, and she is still beyond dull and wooden and seems more like a plot device than a person.

No Fin sucked, it always does, and as a result Carisi seemed to have to take his place in a couple of investigation scenes that he didn’t really have a place in.

This was another episode where having a psych expert would’ve been nice, one was needed to evaluate Luna.

Overall I found the plot better than the usual rich white people he said/she said rape case because of the twists it took, but it was still predictable and had a fairly heavy dose of St Olivia worship. The episode was mediocre on the whole. 

I also felt like they could have taken the storyline up a notch, such as Luna figuring out that her employees were trying to gaslight her and getting the last laugh.  It would have been great to have a recurring psychiatrist in place to offer his opinion & evaluation of Luna.  It would have been a bigger twist if she fooled both Benson and Carisi with her breakdown.  

I also agree that Carisi was straddling the line and it was not appropriate for him to be sitting in on initial interviews .  He’s no longer a detective but he is more involved in the investigations than the typical ADA.   

[wknt3]

The Good:
The satiric elements were pretty good. While the shots at Goop were the most obvious, there were some other companies that were thrown in there as well as the general topic of female empowerment commercialized or turned into a vehicle for narcissism. Speaking of which did someone on staff slip something by TPTB? There was more than a passing resemblance between Luna and Mariska...
Carisi. I had some qualms with how he was used but I enjoyed his time on screen and Scanavino made the most of what he had to work with.
Some good acting by the guest cast as usual.
It was good that they tried to change things up a bit and throw in a twist. It made this overworked plot a bit more tolerable.

The Bad:
No Fin. We really could have used some of snark and cynicism to cut through the BS and when he has an episode off they end up practically giving Carisi his shield back.
I thought Kat was also underused. She was just sort of there when she could have been better used as the newbie learning how to read victims and perps better or for perspective as a younger woman and a minority.
Speaking of which all of the scenes with Benson and Rollins interviewing Luna really were verging on unintentional self-parody of the shows obsessive focus on affluent white women. And unlike the opener I never had the feeling that this was perhaps an intentional thing.
It was pretty bland and by the numbers overall. I found my attention wandering a lot.
I know I am the only one who cares about this, but there was yet another story credit by the top brass for a totally standard story. And I didn't see anything that even resembled a multi-episode arc being started or the introduction of a potential regular character. I wouldn't mind if these stories were different and explored social episodes in depth like the first half of Season 17, but these are by the numbers SVU plots and the people in charge should not be getting credit and money for them.
As has already been mentioned they could have really used a psych consult.
St. Benson and her miraculous empathy and intuition save the day again.
No Benoah (unless I nodded off and missed a scene) when they actually could have used a scene - I would have loved to have seen them at her apartment and Noah asking mommy why she had an Easter Egg already...

Overall this was a meh episode and shows no matter how much the people who know better try to shake things up they are still forced to keep going back to the well of rich white women being victimized in situations that women in the target demo identify with. And while that is the reality of real world sex crimes, they ignore realism everywhere else and in this case there is an overwhelming and overriding creative need to give us the whole range of sexually based offenses even if it is misleading. Especially since they spent an entire season doing this plot as well as most of the second half of the season before it and it was overdone the last couple seasons as well. Did Hudson University get shut down by the feds for Title IX violations? Did all the serial rapists move to Brooklyn due to rising rents and fear of being beaten up by Stabler? Won't somebody think of the children? (Besides those of Rollins and Benson)  Luckily my DVR (or my cable feed) cut off right at the end before the previews so I can hope for something new and different next episode!
 

Edited February 22, 2020 by wknt3
ducking autocorrect...

[Dr.OO7]

This was a really bizarre one, but it's genuinely terrifying to see how elaborate a conspiracy to take someone down can be.

[milner]

Why does benson always wear those huge long dark coats? She even had one on during her TV interview with Luna and in the office at work and in Lunas apartment. Are they trying to hid her weight as they do with Saint Francis on Blue Bloods?

[preeya]

Did anyone think there was a resemblance between Luna and St.Olivia? I thought they could have passed for sisters.

Also: I thought St. Olivia wasn't going to get personally involved in her cases anymore. She should also work on her EXTREME BIASES.

Also, also: when did she get her psych degree?

And when did Rollins get her degree in Forensic Accounting???

IMO, it was a bullshit episode.

 

[tvfanatic13]

I actually liked this episode. 🤷‍♀️

[SuzieQ]

All these people were so unlikable I found myself not caring what happened.  It was awful what was done to Luna yet I still couldn't make myself care.

[UNOSEZ]

On 2/21/2020 at 8:15 PM, preeya said:

She should also work on her EXTREME BIASES.

Yeah she decided that guy was guilty the second she called him a Stanford frat boy... I would've preferred it if Luna was the bad guy... Or if she only did some of the stuff and her underlings did the rest to ruin her... Instead we get another poor rich white lady victim... Because apparently those seem to be the vast majority of ppl who call borough across the bridge home 

[LotusFlower]

On 2/21/2020 at 8:09 PM, milner said:

Why does benson always wear those huge long dark coats?....Are they trying to hid her weight as they do with Saint Francis on Blue Bloods?

I think so.  (I’ve noticed this, too).  Who is Saint Francis?  Tom Selleck?  (I don’t watch Blue Bloods).

[agentp]

10 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

Who is Saint Francis?  Tom Selleck?  (I don’t watch Blue Bloods).

Yeah, that guy. Saint Francis, as in, Francis “Frank” Reagan, Tom Selleck’s character on Blue Bloods.

Edited February 23, 2020 by agentp

[Iguessnot]

Tonight's theme. Women are Goddesses. Women cannot be guilty.

[UNOSEZ]

43 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

Tonight's theme. Women are Goddesses. Women cannot be guilty.

Lol.. Aww man... That one had me spill my fresca

I hope we get more of the Detective from last week.. The one who was working with Rollins.. Who I've always actually enjoyed.. But he was good and I like that this captain seems to not be adversarial... Too many higher-ups on these dick wolf shows are always shown as dirtbags... I mean look at the Chicago shows... Especially fire and PD Seems like every new bigwig has it out for Boden and Voight 

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

Tonight's theme. Women are Goddesses. Women cannot be guilty.

Agreed with this, the main purpose of the show now seems not to be to tell entertaining, quality stories, but to push a female empowerment agenda, particularly empowerment of upper class white women. It would’ve been a more interesting story if Luna had been the villain, but that would’ve gone against the show’s agenda. And I agree with those who are saying they didn’t feel sympathy for Luna, yeah she was assaulted and nothing justifies that, but she was just not a sympathetic character, she seemed to be a toxic boss and person and it seemed like she was coming on to the guy who assaulted her before the assault. None of the people in this episode were sympathetic, but it would’ve been a more interesting story if Luna had been guilty. 

[balmz]

one thing that might have been better is if luna was guility of embezzlement but not rape and she was actually raped, so she still goes to prison or is given a massive fine and community service for embezzlement  and the moral of the episode was even embezzlers deserve  justice and her embezzlement doesn't mean she deserves to be raped and just because she was raped doesn't give her a free pass on her criminal behaviour

 

maybe it might have been better

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:13 PM, tvfanatic13 said:

I actually liked this episode. 🤷‍♀️

I loved it, and Radha Mitchell's wardrobe was to die for.

[tennisgurl]

After a few weeks of non white and not wealthy victims (still good looking and female, of course) and actually pretty decent episodes, we now get back to what this show really loves to focus on...rich white women victims and evil rich white guy bad guys in he said/said said stories that are overly complicated and dull! I was not a huge fan of this one, I did think that some of the twists and turns had potential, but the whole thing felt super convoluted, Olivia was throwing her self importance all over the place and doing the exact thing that she told Kat not to do (get super involved with the victims) and while it had some decent ideas, they seemed to get all clogged up in Olivia giving speeches and hitting beats that the show has hit before. 

It was interesting at least that they had the idea of a women raping a woman raised in this episode, a concept that I dont think the show has really explored since season two or three, and only once that I can remember off the top of my head. Of course it turned out all to be made up, because women are always telling the truth...unless its about another woman, in which case she is probably a lying liar who lies. Luna was also apparently raped in prison by female inmates, but they didnt even talk about that very much, which was too bad, because its an issue that is very rarely explored, which is what the show is supposed to be about, but they zipped away to go back to the tried and true "female victim, evil male rapist" story, even when possibly a more interesting story was right there. 

I kept expecting another twist where Luna really was embezzling, but she really never raped her employee and she really was raped by the other guy, and she would get in trouble but still get justice for being raped because rape is never justified and even criminals deserve justice, and that would have been a pretty good message, but it turns out it was a convoluted as fuck evil scheme and conspiracy to gaslight Luna, get her sent to jail, and take over the company, because they just dont like her. How all of this happened was a bit unclear to me, was her bitter childhood friend the mastermind, or the guy from Stanford? Why exactly did they want to do all of this, was Luna that bad of a boss? Or was it just corporate greed run amok? I was also really confused by the dynamic between Luna and the Stanford guy, it looked like she was seducing him and he looked uncomfortable and creeped out (I thought that he was her subordinate at first and it would turn into a thing with a female boss either being raped by her male employee or her using her position to sexually harass him) but then he just jumped on top of her and raped her as a part of this scheme? To hurt her credibility? Or just because...men love to rape women and he couldn't help himself? Not that either of those are impossible or anything, but it seems like a strange series of events. How many people were involved, it seemed like it was just three people right? So why did Olivia say that it was for the money "for the men" wasnt it one man and two women? Were more people involved?

Olivia was really going full Olivia, giving speeches about women overcoming never ending victimization to start AND end this week, first in a kind of parody way, then for real, with neither of them seeming different at all. I mean, this is clearly one of those times when Olivia decided instantly what happened, and didnt want to change her mind, no matter what the evidence said. The second she described the guy as a "Stanford Fratboy" in a tone that most people use to describe people that have sex with corpses, you could tell she decided on who the bad guy here was. There were a few female villains here, and the childhood friend didnt even try to blame her stuff on a man, but it was still rather paint by the numbers when it comes to this shows approach to gender.

No Finn, and that sucks. His snark would have been welcome. But I guess we needed more of St. Olivia, champion of all hot white female victims of a certain income bracket!

Edited February 24, 2020 by tennisgurl

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

After a few weeks of non white and not wealthy victims (still good looking and female, of course) and actually pretty decent episodes, we now get back to what this show really loves to focus on...rich white women victims and evil rich white guy bad guys in he said/said said stories that are overly complicated and dull! I was not a huge fan of this one, I did think that some of the twists and turns had potential, but the whole thing felt super convoluted, Olivia was throwing her self importance all over the place and doing the exact thing that she told Kat not to do (get super involved with the victims) and while it had some decent ideas, they seemed to get all clogged up in Olivia giving speeches and hitting beats that the show has hit before. 

It was interesting at least that they had the idea of a women raping a woman raised in this episode, a concept that I dont think the show has really explored since season two or three, and only once that I can remember off the top of my head. Of course it turned out all to be made up of course, because women are always telling the truth...unless its about another woman, in which case she is probably a lying liar who lies. Luna was also apparently raped in prison by female inmates, but they didnt even talk about that very much, which was too bad, because its an issue that is very rarely explored, which is what the show is supposed to be about, but they zipped away to go back to the tried and true "female victim, evil male rapist" story, even when possibly a more interesting story was right there. 

I kept expecting another twist where Luna really was embezzling, but she really never raped her employee and she really was raped by the other guy, and she would get in trouble but still get justice for being raped because rape is never justified and even criminals deserve justice, and that would have been a pretty good message, but it turns out it was a convoluted as fuck evil scheme and conspiracy to gaslight Luna, get her sent to jail, and take over the company, because they just dont like her. How all of this happened was a bit unclear to me, was her bitter childhood friend the mastermind, or the guy from Stanford? Why exactly did they want to do all of this, was Luna that bad of a boss? Or was it just corporate greed run amok? I was also really confused by the dynamic between Luna and the Stanford guy, it looked like she was seducing him and he looked uncomfortable and creeped out (I thought that he was her subordinate at first and it would turn into a thing with a female boss either being raped by her male employee or her using her position to sexually harass him) but then he just jumped on top of her and raped her as a part of this scheme? To hurt her credibility? Or just because...men love to rape women and he couldn't help himself? Not that either of those are impossible or anything, but it seems like a strange series of events. How many people were involved, it seemed like it was just three people right? So why did Olivia say that it was for the money "for the men" wasnt it one man and two women? Were more people involved?

Olivia was really going full Olivia, giving speeches about women overcoming never ending victimization to start AND end this week, first in a kind of parody way, then for real, with neither of them seeming different at all. I mean, this is clearly one of those times when Olivia decided instantly what happened, and didnt want to change her mind, no matter what the evidence said. The second she described the guy as a "Stanford Fratboy" in a tone that most people use to describe people that have sex with corpses, you could tell she decided on who the bad guy here was. There were a few female villains here, and the childhood friend didnt even try to blame her stuff on a man, but it was still rather paint by the numbers when it comes to this shows approach to gender.

No Finn, and that sucks. His snark would have been welcome. But I guess we needed more of St. Olivia, champion of all hot white female victims of a certain income bracket!

Damn Lady.. You brought it with that one... 10000 rounds of applause 

[CrystalBlue]

If Saint Olivia was really that good, she would've told Luna that Melanie wants her necklace back.

Laurie from Hackensack reminded me of Piper Chapman, inmate on Orange Is The New Black.  Luna reminded me of Taylor Schilling look-wise.

Hadid and her smug look with Tisi in the grand jury rehearsal had me cracking up.  Are they trying to rehab Hadid and make her the good guy now?

Carisi worked me for, even if his involvement in the case was veering toward his former occupation.  I love our Sonny as ADA.

No Fin = bah humbug.

No Noah = yippee!

Edited February 24, 2020 by CrystalBlue
Oops, wrong "yippie" used first.

[jabRI]

On 2/20/2020 at 11:54 PM, Xeliou66 said:

This was another episode where having a psych expert would’ve been nice, one was needed to evaluate Luna.

I agree totally, they made such an impact in the early days, both Olivette and Huang.  These are complex issues, you can't look at someone and know what they are going through and why they did something. I don't care how long you've been on the job

[FozzyBear]

This just seemed like a really complicated plan to get rid of Luna for no real reason. They were worried about her leadership because? What? She was kooky and stole a necklace 40 years ago? And why rape her at all? Because all guys are secretly rapist, especially ones that went to college? The need to make Luna an innocent victim beyond reproach worked against this story to me because then you’re left with a group of people who went comic book super villain because their boss was sort of difficult and not that great at her job.

[AryasMum]

On 2/21/2020 at 9:13 PM, tvfanatic13 said:

I actually liked this episode. 🤷‍♀️

Me too. I always enjoy Radha Mitchell and it was nice seeing Samantha Mathis as well. 

[Joe Hellandback]

1. Well this started off as interesting but then took an all too predictable right turn. Because obviously anyone who preaches female empowerment and supports OB can't be guilty right?

2. No Fin? Not even a ref to him being on holiday of vacation or something?

3. So suddenly the SVU are opposed to the embarrassing perp walk for the rich and powerful in front of the world's media? Weird, they seem to revel in it the rest of the time?

4. Actually had Hadid make herself useful this time, maybe she's better at the white collar stuff? 

5. Olivia and Carisi can now tell the difference between someone who's crazy and faking? Weird, they've been fooled many times before, notably by Miranda Hobbs. 

6. Rather beggars belief that the tech savvy Indian IT guy (cliché much?) didn't consider cell-phone records?

7. Knew the blonde assistant was having a bigger role when Luna snubbed her at the beginning, can so read it these days. 

8. If I had been writing this I'd have had the others say frat boy Wall Street type wasn't in on it and then at the end Luna asks if he's going to be prosecuted for rape and Benson tells her Hadid has decided against it, the waters have been too muddied, it's a he said/she said and she was too drunk and high to be a credible witness. So everything would be left ambiguous.  

6/10

[wanderingstar]

Bobby: You should know, she's not Luna Prasada from Darien. She's Lori Wiznewski from Hackensack.

(Me: Hey! Shut up about Jersey!)

Rollins: That's not a crime, Bobby.

Ha!

[MoistestCake]

It was ok-ish until the cringeworthy end when St Olivia said, You know what happens when your house burns down? You get a clear view of the sky. Cringe. 

Not if you burn with it you don't. And if you're outside already then you have a clear view of the sky and don't need your house to burn....

[Tachi Rocinante]

Radha Mitchell did a great job.

I knew Samantha Mathis' character would have more screen time, she's more than just a one-scene guest star.