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Danielg342

S15.E09: Face Off/S15.E10: And In The End

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On 2/19/2020 at 9:36 PM, Danielg342 said:

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You know, I have a feeling that when CM fans made a list of things they wanted to see in the finale, I'm sure that list didn't include "have the finale be a tribute to Penelope Garcia."

Preach. They couldn't have chosen a character I wanted to see less. And the way the show has been forcing her to "flirt" with Luke, that was totally expected, too. 

 

On 2/19/2020 at 11:06 PM, ForeverAlone said:

Finally Penelope's mind can be free by moving to Silicon Valley and making gobs of money without having to flit about looking at murder scenes she should have gotten used to years ago.

She said she's staying local, though. 

One thing I liked was Emily saying she'd cut her hair. She did that a while back and has been wearing a wig. Which is good, because those bangs were heinous and I'd hate to think she had to wear them all the time.

Here's a tweet about it: 

 

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6 hours ago, Mystery said:

One thing I liked was Emily saying she'd cut her hair. She did that a while back and has been wearing a wig. Which is good, because those bangs were heinous and I'd hate to think she had to wear them all the time.

Here's a tweet about it: 

 

She's been on a few episodes of Mom this season (playing Christy's nightmare lawyer boss) and she has the short gray hair. I had wondered if that was real or a wig. Guess now I know. 🙂

Side note, I saw another site and skimmed some of the comments there; they were all "this was the best episode ever!" sort of stuff, compared to a lot of "ugh" over here. Interesting how people congregate in the places where people agree with them. (Which I guess is why I'm here and not there...) Though not surprising, I suppose.

Edited by ams1001
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2 hours ago, illdoc said:

I groaned reading that since it seems like Erica Messer's answer was just a cop out, one that could be interpreted as taking one last dig at Reid. I wanted Reid to end up definitively happy and while I'll likely assume that's the case, the fact the perpetual punching bag doesn't get a clear happy ending is grating.

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18 hours ago, Mystery said:

One thing I liked was Emily saying she'd cut her hair. She did that a while back and has been wearing a wig. Which is good, because those bangs were heinous and I'd hate to think she had to wear them all the time.

Here's a tweet about it: 

 

I like it and kudos to her for not trying to be "forever young"!

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I'm honestly not bothered about the way things ended for Reid. He's been getting some proper therapy and working through his issues in recent times, he got a nice little final chat with Maeve to make peace with some things about her and his past in general, he started something with Max that may work out, may not, but even if it doesn't, at least it helps him put himself out there again, he's got a good job and gets to work with his close friends... I'd say that's enough to show he's happy to me. 

Plus, speaking on a general level, given how incredibly vocal the fandom tends to be regarding who's "right" for Reid and all that relationship-wise and the way he gets shipped with seemingly any and everyone under the sun, I dunno, maybe this is the best way to handle an ending regarding him. That way those who liked Max can imagine they lived happily ever after, and those who might've liked him with somebody else can imagine they got together down the line as well. 

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Let me start by saying that I am glad I watched this show from start to finish but oh my lord that was a terrible series finale.... the writing was horrid,  the acting was average and the big bad was the lamest big bad this show has had.... he and his mommy issues can take a hike.  
 

It’s been like watch a balloon slowly deflate for the past few years and whilst I enjoyed this show for the most part I feel nothing but relief it has finally been kindly put out of its misery... 

 

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I think it would have been funny if, in that final scene where Garcia takes her stuff from her office she meets her replacement in the hallway...and the character is played by Pauley Perrette. They could exchange a few words or even just stare at each other before going on their way.

It would have been a nice meta joke and an acknowledgement on the inspiration for the Garcia character.

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I like the idea of doing a CM prequel. Since Mindhunter is on terminal hold now, they could focus on getting those famous bad guys.

And I did not like the fact that since the finale ended up being about Garcia, Morgan did not make an appearance. He has been on before and he should have done this one.

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They'd said they'd tried to get Shemar Moore back, but they weren't able to. I would've loved for him to return as well, but unfortunately, scheduling can be hard that way, it seems. 

Also, from what I've heard, it sounds like Moore's been dealing with a lot of personal losses lately, so maybe that factored into his inability to make an appearance, too? I dunno. 

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1 hour ago, Retired at last said:

I like the idea of doing a CM prequel. Since Mindhunter is on terminal hold now, they could focus on getting those famous bad guys.

I found Mindhunter to be terribly slow and dull. I'd happily watch a CM prequel in the usual COTW format. There must be lots of cases in the 70s that they could draw from. Just as long as nobody lets Erica Messer anywhere near it. 

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Mindhunter isn't "Case of the Week" as I understand, so right there we have enough of a difference. Plus the Criminal Minds brand would come with a much bigger audience, especially if it's used as another starring vehicle for Ben Savage, who was very well received as the younger Jason Gideon.

I even have a partial cast for a show I call Criminal Minds: Origins:

  • Ben Savage- Young Jason Gideon
  • Rider Strong- Young David Rossi (not a fan of Robert Dunne, sorry)
  • Amy Davidson- Sheila Hawkes (Zoe's mother)

I'm still thinking of who I'd cast as a young Max Ryan, and I'm sure I'd need a fifth agent who's a person of colour ('cause, "diversity"), but at least I have a start.

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So let me get this straight. Seven profilers risk their lives every day to save victims/potential victims, and to put dangerous psychos away, and instead of celebrating what they've accomplished along the years, commiserating a bit over their lost battles, they devote the last episode of the series to the immature and annoying tech who hasn't grown the least in 15 years ? Wow !

I've said it before (many times to myself and once or twice here) and I'll say it again, for the life of me, I could never understand why everyone always worshipped at the altar of Garcia and walked on eggshells around her. And the idea that she was the heart of the show is ludicrous. Hotch was the heart of the show. But if we don't want one character to be considered as that, the group of profilers as a whole is. But certainly not Penelope-I'm so not modest I need to remind everyone in every single episode and almost every single scene how good I am-Garcia.

Just the other day, I caught her saying to Alvez : "You should worship at my altar Luke Alvez !" And my reaction was : "Remind me again why he should..."  And over the years, Garcia has always been shown to be THE less humble character of the team. And, well, it was bad enough as it was, but never in my wildest, most horrible nightmares would I ever think they'd make it even worst by dedicating the last episode of a 15 year old show to her.

Just... wow ! I have no words...

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13 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I like the idea of doing a CM prequel. Since Mindhunter is on terminal hold now, they could focus on getting those famous bad guys.

And I did not like the fact that since the finale ended up being about Garcia, Morgan did not make an appearance. He has been on before and he should have done this one.

I could have sworn that Erica originally wanted a spin off of Gideon and Rossi when they were younger and just started the BAU, but CBS didn’t want that so instead they did the Nelson’s Sparrow episode and then the Beyond Borders spin off went through.  I might have just imagined it though because I haven’t been able to find any evidence that says that or find any interviews where Erica mentions that. 

I think a prequel showing the BAU just starting would be cool though. 

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Just now, Retired at last said:

And I did not like the fact that since the finale ended up being about Garcia, Morgan did not make an appearance. He has been on before and he should have done this one.

Why ? So she could have one more person on screen to worship at her childish and insufferable self on the last moments of the show ? Because, you know, 7 profilers and their significant others and the other guests, not to mention all the viewers from over the world, couldn't possibly be enough for Miss Penelope-40+ year old attention seeking brat-Garcia.

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Frankly that sucked.  
 

The hit or miss quality of who got to come back and who didn’t. The focus on Edward Lynch, and Crystal. 
JJ and Will should be moving to LA.  Rossi should be retired.  Reid should teach.  Garcia moving on is fine.  Prentice should move to Denver.  Matt should step up to bureau chief.  Luke and Tara can stay as they are younger members of the team. 
who were the strangers in the background at the party? Writers? 
 

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I was bored. 

I said, out loud, a few times "oh, enough with the schmaltz."

I don't understand why the prospect of Rossi retiring was such a world-altering idea.  It isn't like he hasn't done it before.

TPTB seem to be trying to position Garcia leaving that note as some big thing for viewers to wonder about and I just don't care what it said.  At all.  Also, I suspect it fell through the crack to the floor and will be swept up and thrown away rather than discovered by whoever holds that position next.

Also, these people need to get a grip.  These are adult co-workers.  People changing jobs?  Happens every day.  This long, drawn out, tear-filled, bequest-leaving extravaganza was not merited.  Also, if this is so much like family: it does not matter what job they have so, again, no need to literally cry.  Or make speeches about how you are going to keep in touch.  The emotionalism was not earned by the events in the episode.

I love Jane Lynch but Diana Reid's character felt all over the place here.  Eh, mildly annoyed.  (See, bored, having trouble working up *any* emotion for a show that I watched every episode of.  And kept spreadsheets for the first several years.  I should care that it is ending...)

I'm annoyed that they would have moved JJ to unit chief.  Again.  It didn't make sense last time (unless you go with: she was given the position because her inexperience would make her easier to manipulate) and it doesn't make sense this time.

Way too much of the last few episodes was spent setting up potential exits for various characters.  And then basically none of them panned out; even Garcia took a local job not the CA one she initially mentioned.  I feel both jerked around and tired and bored of it all.

 

 

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And from the audience point of view, they are all leaving. They shouldn't have had the focus or party for just one person, it should have been about all of them. 

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Just now, Quiet1 said:

And from the audience point of view, they are all leaving. They shouldn't have had the focus or party for just one person, it should have been about all of them. 

Exactly ! And by focusing on the team as a whole, they would've been in neutral territory and less likely to make viewers fume.

But I shouldn't be too shocked actually. Come to think about it, this was bound to happen eventually. 'Cause this is what you get when a cray-cray or a bunch of cray-crays get into their stupid heads to take a character that should've remained a supporting one behind her computer and start giving her way too much attention since season 2 or 3, going as far as making her the target of unsubs a few times just to give her unneeded focus.

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It made sense for Garcia to be the one to leave.

She was the one member of the BAU who had a real chance for a life outside law enforcement. And. this way, the rest of the team is out there doing what they do best.

 

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Serious question:  how come the writers don’t seem to understand their own shows and characters?  Shows become terrible when the writers don’t understand that their character is the one that the viewers perceive, not the ones the writers think they created. 
Hence the audience  issues with a Garcia that is in her 40s, and behaves like someone under 21.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, SSA Emily Prentiss said:

I bet they didn't even explain why Emily and JJ turned down their job offers. That wouldn't surprise me.

Emily didn't turn anything down. Things changed.

And remember, it wasn't a technically a job offer, her name was placed in consideration for the job.

Edited by Mysteyman
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1 hour ago, normasm said:

He said, "I can't believe they're breaking up the band."

Ah yes,thanks for that!

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It's been said by many on this thread, but since I've been a loyal fan from the beginning, I have to say it too: WTF with the series finale being ALL about Penelope, the most annoying character in this show. Ever. She is not the "heart" of the group, she is a grown woman who dresses like a tween in Japan and and is all "oh that's icky!" while working in the Behavioral Analysis unit of the FBI. The party should have been for Rossi, he should have retired and he could have written more books or perhaps occasionally consulting with the FBI when needed. 

You are not the glue of the team and the fact that they made the last episode all about her shows how TPTB are out of touch with the viewers.

End rant. 

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11 hours ago, hookedontv said:

It's been said by many on this thread, but since I've been a loyal fan from the beginning, I have to say it too: WTF with the series finale being ALL about Penelope, the most annoying character in this show. Ever. She is not the "heart" of the group, she is a grown woman who dresses like a tween in Japan and and is all "oh that's icky!" while working in the Behavioral Analysis unit of the FBI. The party should have been for Rossi, he should have retired and he could have written more books or perhaps occasionally consulting with the FBI when needed. 

You are not the glue of the team and the fact that they made the last episode all about her shows how TPTB are out of touch with the viewers.

End rant. 

 I think MGG might disagree that the finale was all about Garcia. and by his own words, HE LOVED IT!

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Looking back I think my issues with the finale and entire  season as a whole is that it was so...:pedestrian.  You can put it in any other season and it would fit.   Maybe because it focused so much on Reid and the rest of the characters got a line or two.   Heck writing Garcia and Alvez as a couple came out of literal nowhere even though I have thought they've had super chemistry since his first episode.    It would have been nice to actually write the pairing.   
 

Plus it would  have been nice to see what the gone and not dead members of the team were doing.   Even just in passing.

but instead the show wrote some of the worst unsubs in the history of the show and a main bad guy who was half interesting.   

Edited by Chaos Theory
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On 2/27/2020 at 10:48 PM, SSA Emily Prentiss said:

I bet they didn't even explain why Emily and JJ turned down their job offers. That wouldn't surprise me.

After shit went down and FBI agents died Emily refused to pass the buck like Strauss had once done.  Which meant it all fell on her and her name was taken off the short list for director.   Which also meant JJ wouldn’t be leading the team.   As for JJ it wasn’t really implied either way if she would take the job offered to her or not.   It could be read either way.   But my interpretation was she decided to stay with the team.

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I agree with that. Simply put, nothing need to be said because nothing changed, with the exception of Garcia's leaving.

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9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Looking back I think my issues with the finale and entire  season as a whole is that it was so...:pedestrian.  You can put it in any other season and it would fit.   Maybe because it focused so much on Reid and the rest of the characters got a line or two.   Heck writing Garcia and Alvez as a couple came out of literal nowhere even though I have thought they've had super chemistry since his first episode.    It would have been nice to actually write the pairing.   
 

Plus it would  have been nice to see what the gone and not dead members of the team were doing.   Even just in passing.

but instead the show wrote some of the worst unsubs in the history of the show and a main bad guy who was half interesting.   

I suppose the most diplomatic reason for why this season went the way it did was that CBS maybe sprung the cancellation news onto the writers suddenly, forcing a rewrite of what they already had. It could explain why we had Cases Of The Week in what was supposed to be the final run of episodes.

I also suppose that perhaps the writers didn't want to write a series of episodes that were "too far" from the kind of episodes they did before. It would explain why they concluded the series with a final scene that suggested things were going to operate like they did before- we would just not get to see those episodes.

I don't know. I largely agree that the ball was dropped and I had different expectations for how this season would play out. I didn't disagree with the choice to end the series with the implication that the BAU would still continue but they should have done something to indicate that, after the finale, a "new" era of the BAU was beginning. If they didn't want characters to leave the BAU they could have at least given the team awards or someone could write a book about the BAU thus elevating their stature.

I mean, in-Universe, catching the Chameleon was a big deal...why didn't the show recognize that?

As for the Chameleon himself, I remember saying in my initial assessment of him that they had thought him out a bit better, he could have been a more "iconic" character. For one, they should have cast a better actor, because for a "final villain" you should go all out meaning you get someone who's higher profile than Michael Mosley. No disrespect to Mosley but he's nowhere near the guy I would picture to be the guy closing out one of the longest running TV shows in American history.

(I mean, Hawaii 5-0 is getting Chuck Norris for its finale. Chuck freaking Norris. Why couldn't CM get him or someone of his stature?)

Secondly, I don't think he should have been introduced via flashbacks. We should have seen his first case in real time.

Thirdly, and more importantly, I believe he should have had a different MO other than "cutting people's faces off". That's a pretty unique MO for a criminal which would make him easier for the police to catch- even if he kills in different states, in today's 24/7 Internet news world, how would someone not think a series of murders where the face was cut off would be done by the same guy? Pretty easy to detect and corner, methinks.

Rather, I suggested that he changes his appearance by using items he stole from the people he murdered, like a shirt or a necklace or a tie. That would be a bit harder for a layperson to put together and would likely require someone of Rossi's calibre to figure out. It might be harder to write, but the show's final villain should be a unique challenge to the writers. He shouldn't be a rehash of someone they did before.

As for other parts of the finale- the writers should have thrown in a line or two discussing the other agents that have been on this team, at the very least Morgan and Hotch. Morgan, at least (given his history with Garcia), should have had a mention, since it's inconceivable that he'd miss Garcia's going away party unless he had a great reason to miss it, like being stuck on one of his restoration projects. Hotch, for his part, could have been away in seclusion with Jack, who may be becoming a great soccer player at this stage. Then there's Elle, Alex, Ashley and Kate...it might have been awkward to shoehorn them in to the dialogue but, at least for someone like Elle and Alex, who also had significant contributions to the team, they should have at least tried.

Finally...Garvez. I know I didn't say I bought the attraction between Luke and Garcia, and I still don't. I do want to say it has nothing to do with looks- I just think their personalities aren't a fit. Garcia, even in the most generous of character assessments, would be someone who'd be emotionally needy because she's very neurotic and likely needs a lot of reassurance. Garcia, then, would need someone who is not just patient but would be able to reassure her and calm her down- Morgan fit much better with her in this regard, especially since we've seen him do it with Garcia multiple times. Luke, while laid back, doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd want to put in that kind of "emotional" work- he'd rather have the simple life with a simple woman.

Which is why Lisa worked much better with him. Of course, if the writers wanted Garvez to be the end game, they had a chance to set that all up in "Luke" and develop the relationship instead of springing up haphazardly in the finale. It could have been a nice story for the last twenty or so episodes, but the writers dropped the ball.

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The two-part series finale honestly seemed like the Reid/Rossi/Garcia show and everyone else got put on the back burner. Rossi got the spotlight in the first episode, which was kinda fine for me since The Chameleon was associated with him. Don't get me wrong, Reid will ALWAYS be my favorite character on Criminal Minds and I love any episode he's the star in, but was it really necessary to for him to have his own personal side story in the second part of the series finale? Look, I get it, Reid's by far the most popular character on the show and the writers know this, so they write for him. But I thought the very last episode should've been more team-centric rather than just handpicked character's centric. I also hate how they made such a big deal about Garcia. Sure she's a main character, but she's the tech analyst and has always been treated as a "side character" sort of speak in comparison with the profilers. The huge amount of focus on her in the last quarter just seemed really forced and unnecessary. Also, I don't even like JJ, but she has been there since the first season as well and it's like the writers didn't even care about her in the finale. 

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First of all, happy Easter to everyone! I wish you the best.

And now, I've been putting off watching the final episode for a while... I guess it is about time that I do it, but I have a feeling that I will hate it. Oh, well...

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On 4/12/2020 at 1:13 PM, Mislav said:

First of all, happy Easter to everyone! I wish you the best.

And now, I've been putting off watching the final episode for a while... I guess it is about time that I do it, but I have a feeling that I will hate it. Oh, well...

Mislav, What did you think of the finale?

 

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