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S07.E16: Judy Garland and a Sexy Troll Doll


jewel21

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Aw I'm happy for Wendy's promotion.

This is now the third episode in a row with hints of Christy being desperate to find love, and I love this (by now) running joke! It's so entertaining.

Jill's "I'm 40...and 18 months" line was so funny 🤣

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This may be an unpopular opinion, but I sometimes don't really like Jill very much. Inviting them all to lunch at her club and then blowing them off when they were all there waiting for her was just so selfish and typically Jill. She's not as bad as she was when we first met her, but I don't think she would make a very good mother because she's so completely self-centered.

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Bonnie and Adam's dialogue about their theoretical offspring was hilarious! I wish the writers had refrained from Christy all of sudden considering a third child. We all try to forget Roscoe (and Violet) like the writers did - no need reminding us of their existence. I get that the point was that right now she's really focusing on her career - well except when she's desperate for romance  - but it was unnecessary. I'm also not sure we need yet another (third) arc of Jill wanting a baby. Although I have to say Andy was great.

And congrats to Wendy Harris (did WE know that's her second name?)!

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3 hours ago, Amazee-Dayzee said:

I'm guessing (haven't seen the episode yet) that Jill is either unable to conceive or carry a child to term?

She looked into having her eggs frozen, and none of the eggs that were extracted were viable.

55 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

And congrats to Wendy Harris (did WE know that's her second name?)!

I recall we heard it in that hilarious episode where Christy looked into her family background and found out about her mob connections. Wendy said something like, "That's a different Wendy Harris," and then threatened Christy if she looked into her family any further!

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6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Aw I'm happy for Wendy's promotion.

This is now the third episode in a row with hints of Christy being desperate to find love, and I love this (by now) running joke! It's so entertaining.

Jill's "I'm 40...and 18 months" line was so funny 🤣

I was so happy they were celebrating Wendy!

6 hours ago, Lily H said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I sometimes don't really like Jill very much. Inviting them all to lunch at her club and then blowing them off when they were all there waiting for her was just so selfish and typically Jill. She's not as bad as she was when we first met her, but I don't think she would make a very good mother because she's so completely self-centered.

I hated that they forgot to invite Wendy to the spa day.

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Bonnie and Adam's dialogue about their theoretical offspring was hilarious! I wish the writers had refrained from Christy all of sudden considering a third child. We all try to forget Roscoe (and Violet) like the writers did - no need reminding us of their existence. I get that the point was that right now she's really focusing on her career - well except when she's desperate for romance  - but it was unnecessary. I'm also not sure we need yet another (third) arc of Jill wanting a baby. Although I have to say Andy was great.

And congrats to Wendy Harris (did WE know that's her second name?)!

Adam is gorgeous and I’m glad they stopped the fight before it got ugly.

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

The final scene was TOO emotional sad-face.png&f=1&nofb=1

I saw another show where a character was told in her forties that she is too old to have a baby and that most of her eggs were not viable. She then started to have sex without birth control and was pregnant with an unlikely whoops baby.

I hope they do not go this route with Jill and her boyfriend.

The ending was rather sad😔

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7 hours ago, Lily H said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I sometimes don't really like Jill very much. Inviting them all to lunch at her club and then blowing them off when they were all there waiting for her was just so selfish and typically Jill. She's not as bad as she was when we first met her, but I don't think she would make a very good mother because she's so completely self-centered.

I totally agree with this; she still lands on her cushion of money when she does something rude or selfish. She HAS improved (as she and Marjorie discussed when Andy dumped her) but she's still not consistently a good person. None of them are yet (except Marjorie, who's been working on it longer). I agree she'd be problematic as a mother because her goal has always been to have someone who loves her unconditionally.

And yet, she was a good foster mother, and found out how children can break your heart...so there's a part of her that's capable of looking beyond herself.

As for Christy, of COURSE she doesn't want another kid. She is within reach of the goal she's been talking about since the beginning of the show. But the whole "find a man" thing is all they've been able to give her lately. It really does seem like the writers are looking around for a plot line that's more than "Christy finally achieves her goal." 

I wonder if that's because if she did end up passing the bar and getting a job as a lawyer, it would affect the dynamic of the group? I sure hope they don't have her give up on being a lawyer for some plot device like getting pregnant or going off with a guy.

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8 hours ago, Lily H said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I sometimes don't really like Jill very much. Inviting them all to lunch at her club and then blowing them off when they were all there waiting for her was just so selfish and typically Jill. She's not as bad as she was when we first met her, but I don't think she would make a very good mother because she's so completely self-centered.

I agree with you. They do a really nice job tempering her worse qualities with growth but she’s still the women who thought cultural appropriation was a good thing and never considered her staffs feelings until it was pointing out to her. 

“It's called cultural appropriation, Marjorie. We're all supposed to do it.”

I’d be nice if this experience led to her finding a sense of purpose in her life. The show has been flirting with the idea of giving her a business or getting her involved with a cause but they never follow through with it. 

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1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I hated that they forgot to invite Wendy to the spa day.

It's really incredible the way this group of friends will rally around Jill, Bonnie and Christy even during their most selfish, awful moments - but they can't be bothered to treat Wendy like a human being.

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It's so very much this group and this show's handling of the Wendy character that they went out for a spa day to celebrate Wendy's promotion ... and then forgot to invite Wendy.

Loved Adam and Bonnie discussing their hypothetical child and concluding that with their combined characteristics he'd probably be a douche.  The actors really do have such great chemistry and comedic timing.  I didn't mind Christy briefly flirting with the idea of a do-over baby, I think mostly because of how quickly she worked through that she wants a career more and that her life really isn't in that place anymore.   It's natural to ponder the path not taken and whether you could do things differently under different circumstances, especially when someone is basically gift wrapping that possibility and handing it to you.  

Jill's very funny and we've seen over and over that she can be an incredibly giving and loving person.  She can also be selfish and incredibly self-absorbed.  It's not necessarily a deal breaker for being a good mother as people will sometimes really surprise you, but part of me always wonders how much of her off and on wanting a child is about wanting something she can't just go out and buy.  For all the gauzy talk about the self sacrifice and selfless love of motherhood, there's also an inherent element of selfishness in wanting to propagate your own genetics and carry on everything you are into the next generation so you're not completely forgotten.  When she was briefly pregnant it was all about how much the baby would give her purpose and love her, which as a mom I concede can feel really validating when they're small.  While she was a generally caring foster mom, there was also a huge streak in it of wanting to keep Emily so she wouldn't be alone again, and she fell apart pretty hard when that happened.  We've been given no indication that she was feeling any particular sense of urgency about having a baby until she was confronted with the reality that her biological clock was ticking against her and then she immediately expected Andy to get on board and initially seemed ready to ride roughshod over any objections he might have about it.  All of these characters are works in progress, and Jill hasn't been sober as long or together as long as anyone else in the core cast.

Either way, though, the ending was sad in seeming to take the choice out of her hands.  

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1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

It's really incredible the way this group of friends will rally around Jill, Bonnie and Christy even during their most selfish, awful moments - but they can't be bothered to treat Wendy like a human being.

Particularly since Wendy always seems to be there for them. I hope she finds a group of friends that truly appreciate her.

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They lose me when they start in with the baby stuff. I'm not going to get invested in a story about how a character like Jill can't have a baby. That doesn't move me one iota. There is a similar discussion going on over in The Conners forum. When writers can't think of anything else to do with female characters than baby stuff, they are officially bankrupt creatively. Jill can adopt and she can foster. She has enough money to do plenty of good for plenty of children. I'm not going to get all weepy over the fact that her eggs are old. Forget it.

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It's really incredible the way this group of friends will rally around Jill, Bonnie and Christy even during their most selfish, awful moments - but they can't be bothered to treat Wendy like a human being.

At least the writing is self aware of that fact - like Wendy showing her new badge and someone going "Your last name is Harris?" and the fact that they forgot to invite her to the spa. 

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2 hours ago, qtpye said:

I hated that they forgot to invite Wendy to the spa day.

This was obviously meant to be just another joke about how Wendy is always the forgotten one, but really it just shows Jill again being Jill. She talks about being sorry that "no one" remembered to invite Wendy, but it was Jill's spa, Jill was paying, it was Jill's way of making it up to everyone that she blew off their fancy lunch, so it was Jill's responsibility to invite Wendy, as presumably, she invited all the rest of them.

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16 minutes ago, Lily H said:

This was obviously meant to be just another joke about how Wendy is always the forgotten one, but really it just shows Jill again being Jill. She talks about being sorry that "no one" remembered to invite Wendy, but it was Jill's spa, Jill was paying, it was Jill's way of making it up to everyone that she blew off their fancy lunch, so it was Jill's responsibility to invite Wendy, as presumably, she invited all the rest of them.

It’s really annoying when you think about how Jill has lived a life of extreme privilege and Wendy has a tough job that is devoted to helping other people. Every day is probably a spa day for Jill.

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

They lose me when they start in with the baby stuff. I'm not going to get invested in a story about how a character like Jill can't have a baby. That doesn't move me one iota. There is a similar discussion going on over in The Conners forum. When writers can't think of anything else to do with female characters than baby stuff, they are officially bankrupt creatively. Jill can adopt and she can foster. She has enough money to do plenty of good for plenty of children. I'm not going to get all weepy over the fact that her eggs are old. Forget it.

 

Ha, I was just going to post something similar about the discussion on the Conner's forum. I actually didn't mind the plot around Jill wanting a baby, other than springing it on her boyfriend, like Darlene Conner's boyfriend sprung wanting a baby on her. It is an ongoing story line with Jill. My beef with this episode was Christy also thinking about freezing her eggs. She is in her 40s, has two kids that she doesn't see now, and is in school to become a lawyer. WTF writers? As some of us posted in the Conner forum, why is it that women are supposed to want kids no matter what their age is, or life circumstances? Just ridiculous, and lazy writing here as it was in the Conner episode. 

My fav line in this episode was Jill saying that she is 40 years and 18 months. It reminded me of some parents of young children who will give their kids ages in months, well past the age of two. "My son is 38 months old". Sheesh. 

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iMoney and usernamefatigue - preach!   As a woman who does not have children and has never been pregnant, I've never understood where society as a whole seems to think that this is the end all and be all of a woman's life and I hate how culture in general shoves our noses in it.   I guess for the majority of women, motherhood is a very important focus of their lives but it isn't for everybody.  And Jill does come across as a very selfish person and my personal experience of selfish people having children doesn't really make them that less selfish, but that the kids become something else that revolves around THEM.   Anyway, agreeing that my heart wasn't feeling it at the end of the episode.

And while Wendy being left out and dismissed in general is the running joke of the show, how pathetic was it that she was left out of the spa day to celebrate her promotion?   I hope that this is eventually going to be setting up something really good happening to Wendy! 

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I'd be more bothered by the Jill wants a baby plot if it was coming out of the blue rather than a continuation of an ongoing thread.  But as it comes on the heels of an episode that saw Jill desperate to claw her way back into her former circle of snooty society "friends" despite having admitted in more than one earlier season episode that she never really liked many of those people very much, it reads almost like another installment of Poor Little Me, Poor Little Rich Girl.  That's why I said I wonder how much of this is really about truly wanting a child and how much is about being denied immediate gratification in being able to just go out and buy this one thing she's decided she wants.  She's also admitted in previous episodes that she shops as much as she does because she's got a lot of time on her hands and a hole to fill.

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I was waiting at the end for Christy to tell Jill that SHE would donate her eggs to Jill!  That way, Christy could pay her law school debt and Jill gets a baby.  It's not that simple, but, the donor or the surrogate, however, they decide to arrange it, is allowed fair compensation.  It's not a bad idea and I could see a storyline around it.  What I can't see is Jill with her boyfriend.  I don't care for that guy.  Is he the same one who used to play that role? It seemed like I used to like him.  What happened?

I really do detest how they excluded Wendy in the end at the spa.  It really ticks me off.  So, I hope that Wendy wins the lottery and finds the right man and makes Jill look poor. 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was waiting at the end for Christy to tell Jill that SHE would donate her eggs to Jill!  That way, Christy could pay her law school debt and Jill gets a baby

Christy is the same age or a little older than Jill. I doubt she has many viable eggs to give. 

1 hour ago, ch1 said:

The only thing I want see from Wendy at this point is dumping her shitty friends.

Exactly. I would at least expect more kindness from Margorie, the least self centered of the bunch.

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Christy also thinking about freezing her eggs. She is in her 40s, has two kids that she doesn't see now, and is in school to become a lawyer. WTF writers? 

I thought Christy would say, Nah, I'm good. I already have two. But not a single mention of her kids. WTF indeed. 

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7 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:
3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

 

I thought Christy would say, Nah, I'm good. I already have two. But not a single mention of her kids. WTF indeed. 

Well, she did say something about wanting a do-over when she was sober, didn’t she? Or am I misremembering?

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8 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Exactly. I would at least expect more kindness from Margorie, the least self centered of the bunch.

Despite her attempt to deflect blame that was all on Jill. She planned it and payed for it so there was no reason for the others to assume Wendy wasn’t invited to her own celebration. 

 

Just now, SoMuchTV said:

Well, she did say something about wanting a do-over when she was sober, didn’t she? Or am I misremembering?

She said she wouldn’t mind a chance to parent sober.  
I’m not surprised that she considered it. It was a free offer to keep the door to possibly having more kids one day open. It’s not like she was going to a sperm bank right away. 

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What I can't see is Jill with her boyfriend.  I don't care for that guy.  Is he the same one who used to play that role? It seemed like I used to like him.

Yes, Will Sasso has played the role from the beginning. I still like him. He was right to balk at the idea of his girlfriend running in and asking to get her pregnant because her clock was ticking. That's not a reason to have a baby.

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The only thing I want see from Wendy at this point is dumping her shitty friends.

Every friend group has that one friend that everyone pays little attention to. It could be attributed to her personality. If you recall, when they first introduced Wendy she was just the woman who cried all the time at the AA meetings. There might be a reason these are her only friends. 

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2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There might be a reason these are her only friends. 

This is true. In one episode she even mentioned to Bonnie that one of her colleagues had a birthday and everyone signed the birthday card except for Wendy - no one thought to ask her.

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5 hours ago, ch1 said:

The only thing I want see from Wendy at this point is dumping her shitty friends.

Totally agree.  Could the others be jealous of her because she is the only one with a professional job?  And this promotion really rubbed their faces in it.  I see some covert hostility going on.  This group may have helped Wendy in her early days of sobriety but maybe it's time for her to move on.  

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3 hours ago, Dani said:

Despite her attempt to deflect blame that was all on Jill. She planned it and payed for it so there was no reason for the others to assume Wendy wasn’t invited to her own celebration. 

 

I was really referring to they way they treat Wendy in general. Not just this one oversight. 

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Wendy seemed to get along well with her roommates, who were also in the medical field. They had fun together telling gory surgical stories while they ate.

I've never been a fan of the whole "buttmonkey" trope in general, where one person in a group of friends or coworkers is inexplicably given no respect.

 

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11 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

She is in her 40s, has two kids that she doesn't see now, and is in school to become a lawyer.

The thing is - that little moment could have been great as a commentary on women being told that they're supposed to always want babies even when they actually look at their life and they don't really actually want a baby. 

I don't love the Christy-is-desperate running joke because it just seems like the show is saying "screw that career you're working so hard for, forget all the people you have in your life, you're nothing without a man!" This show has been so good about not just fully reveling in cliches, but that joke just falls straight into groan-worthy territory for me.

As usual, I heart Jaime Pressly. She is a terrific comedic actress who can deliver a joke, but she's also really good at slowing down to hit more dramatic moments.

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On 2/21/2020 at 2:16 AM, MissLucas said:

Bonnie and Adam's dialogue about their theoretical offspring was hilarious! I wish the writers had refrained from Christy all of sudden considering a third child. We all try to forget Roscoe (and Violet) like the writers did - no need reminding us of their existence. I get that the point was that right now she's really focusing on her career - well except when she's desperate for romance  - but it was unnecessary. I'm also not sure we need yet another (third) arc of Jill wanting a baby. Although I have to say Andy was great.

And congrats to Wendy Harris (did WE know that's her second name?)!

I knew that Harris was her last name because of the credits on IMDB and also through Archive of Our Own, as some fanfics were made of Mom.

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I don't love the Christy-is-desperate running joke 

You know that's classic Chuck Lorre. Nothing is funnier to him than characters who are pathetic. Christy is the new Alan Harper. Pretty soon she'll be reduced to running around in her ratty underwear out in public just for a cheap laugh.

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Since it is possible to get pregnant during perimenopause, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere along the line Jill does have a miracle pregnancy and I am fine with that because Jill always wanted a child so this didn't come out of nowhere and its a continuation from a few seasons back.

Alternatively I can see Christy donating her eggs or trying to for Jill. Christy is supposed to be younger than Anna Faris so I'm assuming she is in her mid-30s so her eggs should still be good. That was the age my mother was when she had me.

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2 hours ago, Amazee-Dayzee said:

Alternatively I can see Christy donating her eggs or trying to for Jill. Christy is supposed to be younger than Anna Faris so I'm assuming she is in her mid-30s so her eggs should still be good. That was the age my mother was when she had me.

Last season Christy was 40. I hope the show doesn’t go there. If Christy was to offer I could see Jill hurting her feelings by not being interested. 

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On 2/21/2020 at 3:00 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I'd be more bothered by the Jill wants a baby plot if it was coming out of the blue rather than a continuation of an ongoing thread. 

Yeah.  And what I like about it is that there are no easy solutions for Jill.  It does that realistic edge that this show does well in that for many people who want children, a solution doesn't come easily.  She had a miscarriage, a foster situation that didn't work out and now eggs that aren't viable. 

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If Jill wants kids badly enough, she should use her limitless financial resources to hire an egg donor and a surrogate.

Whether Andy would stick around is another story. I won't be surprised if that becomes a major issue between them.

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45 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I never saw the first couple season, and just figured that her ex was rich - sounds like "billionaire rich" 

Jill's wealth does not only come from alimony; she was raised in an uber-rich household, and her mom died.  So her inheritance kept her in the lifestyle to which she was accustomed well before she married a rich guy.

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30 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Jill's wealth does not only come from alimony; she was raised in an uber-rich household, and her mom died.  So her inheritance kept her in the lifestyle to which she was accustomed well before she married a rich guy.

ahhh, this is great info.  thank you!!

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On 2/22/2020 at 9:29 PM, Amazee-Dayzee said:

Since it is possible to get pregnant during perimenopause, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere along the line Jill does have a miracle pregnancy and I am fine with that because Jill always wanted a child so this didn't come out of nowhere and its a continuation from a few seasons back.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if this is exactly what happens (and then the boyfriend would have to either get on board or out the door).   IRL, I don't know how easy it would be for such a thing to happen as she had no "viable" eggs with the fertility treatment.   But this is tv and anything can happen.   

Personally, I know a number of women who had babies in their 40s (no fertility treatments involved).  My sister had her first at 38 and the 2nd just before she turned 42.    And I've heard about plenty of menopausal "opps" babies.   A few years ago I read some statistics about abortion and while the most common age group for abortions were teenagers, the 2nd most frequent age group was women in their 40s, which really shocked me.   I guess that many women get sloppy in regards to birth control thinking a pregnancy is not going to happen to them at 40 something years old and find themselves not thrilled with the idea of a baby when they thinking all that was over and done. 

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14 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I guess that many women get sloppy in regards to birth control thinking a pregnancy is not going to happen to them at 40 something years old and find themselves not thrilled with the idea of a baby when they thinking all that was over and done. 

Especially if you already had 3 or 4.

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Yeah, with resources, you can really afford to pull out all the stops.  Joan Lunden (used surrogate) had twins at age 52.  Elizabeth Edwards, wife of NC senator and Vice-Presidential nominee, John Edwards, had her second daughter at age 48 and another son at age 51.  She didn't use a surrogate, but, likely donor eggs, unless she had her frozen to be used later. 

https://slate.com/technology/2004/10/did-elizabeth-edwards-use-donor-eggs.html

If Jill were to obtain donor eggs, she might not want the mother to be an alcoholic.  Just because there is some inherited tendencies, right? 

 

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On 2/21/2020 at 4:36 AM, Harvey said:

Aw I'm happy for Wendy's promotion.

This is now the third episode in a row with hints of Christy being desperate to find love, and I love this (by now) running joke! It's so entertaining.

Jill's "I'm 40...and 18 months" line was so funny 🤣

Isn't 40 a little early for peri menopause? 

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On 2/21/2020 at 3:18 PM, 12catcrazy said:

iMoney and usernamefatigue - preach!   As a woman who does not have children and has never been pregnant, I've never understood where society as a whole seems to think that this is the end all and be all of a woman's life and I hate how culture in general shoves our noses in it.   I guess for the majority of women, motherhood is a very important focus of their lives but it isn't for everybody.  And Jill does come across as a very selfish person and my personal experience of selfish people having children doesn't really make them that less selfish, but that the kids become something else that revolves around THEM.   Anyway, agreeing that my heart wasn't feeling it at the end of the episode.

And while Wendy being left out and dismissed in general is the running joke of the show, how pathetic was it that she was left out of the spa day to celebrate her promotion?   I hope that this is eventually going to be setting up something really good happening to Wendy! 

Add getting married to that list. Great way to lose your own identity and become a second class citizen. Stay single and free. Childless and happy! Be a  crazy aunt! 

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4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, with resources, you can really afford to pull out all the stops.  Joan Lunden (used surrogate) had twins at age 52.  Elizabeth Edwards, wife of NC senator and Vice-Presidential nominee, John Edwards, had her second daughter at age 48 and another son at age 51.  She didn't use a surrogate, but, likely donor eggs, unless she had her frozen to be used later. 

https://slate.com/technology/2004/10/did-elizabeth-edwards-use-donor-eggs.html

If Jill were to obtain donor eggs, she might not want the mother to be an alcoholic.  Just because there is some inherited tendencies, right? 

 

I would also think if she was going to spend thousands of dollars she would go with someone younger.  Considering Christy is Jill’s age she could have the same viability problem.

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8 minutes ago, ch1 said:

I would also think if she was going to spend thousands of dollars she would go with someone younger.  Considering Christy is Jill’s age she could have the same viability problem.

Yeah, but for the show, it might make for some interesting storylines. You know, they fight over who's the real mom......share in the childcare, etc.  And, Bonnie is sort of like a grandma. 

The name of the show is "Mom".....not sure if they want to make some point or not.   Will the show continue on or is there an ending in store? I realize it's steady work and must be very fun to do, but, I would think these actors want to pursue other projects.  

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25 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Will the show continue on or is there an ending in store? I realize it's steady work and must be very fun to do, but, I would think these actors want to pursue other projects.  

The schedule for a sitcom - and the resulting calculation of pay for hours worked - is a dream.  And hiatus leaves them plenty of time to pursue other projects if they want; Allison Janney has kept very busy, as she tends to do, but they've all done other projects over the years the show has been on.  To be women their ages with a steady, well-paying gig in this industry is not often wished away.  They're not likely having to turn much down.

It's already on season seven and renewed for season eight, and acting contracts are most often six or seven seasons, so they have all most likely agreed on a renewal in recent years, which does not surprise me at all.  (Janney and Faris were both up for renewal after six - and both picked up a nice chunk of change at the time - so that's probably the schedule for the others.)  If fact, I wouldn't be surprised for all of them to stick around until cancellation (unless it was really dragging on); Faris has kids (for which the sitcom schedule is ideal), Janney loves to work and is managing to squeeze in Oscar-winning film performances, and the supporting players are in the place working actors strive to be (so long as it's a pleasant set to be on).

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