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PrincessPurrsALot

S06.E03: Born This Way

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Jazz finds out that JoJo's grandmother will not suport JoJo having top surgery; Jeanette celebrates her 53rd birthday with  consultation from a plastic surgeon; Jazz's feelings about Pomona College clash with her parent's desire for her to pick Harvard. 

Original air date 2020.02.11

PrincessPurrsALot wishes reality shows would stop acting like all women want/need plastic surgery. 

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5 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Jazz's feelings about Pomona College clash with her parent's desire for her to pick Harvard.

That's interesting.  Not enough to get me to watch the show again (I want to keep up with her life by reading here, but the show long ago shifted far too much into "reality" show from documentary series for me to watch), but interesting.  I certainly understand the "if you get into Harvard, damn straight you go to Harvard" mentality for the doors an Ivy League degree opens, but back when I learned she'd been accepted to Pomona, I said that would be the perfect environment for her.  So it's interesting to learn that's what she was leaning towards.  Or not; it's possible this divide is all for the show.  But Greg, especially, as a lawyer (the national ranking of your law school is a significant factor in your job opportunities) would very likely have the "go to Harvard!" mindset.

(I opted to attend the lowest-ranked law school to which I was accepted, because it thoroughly "clicked" as the right place for me.  I had a wonderful experience there and graduated at the top of my class, so I've never second-guessed that decision, but, boy, did I hear a lot about it at the time [not from my parents, and I was an adult for whom law was going to be a second career, so it's different overall, but I relate to the general idea of being pushed to just go by the numbers]).

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Another episode of “Mom.... something’s wrong! Come look at my pussy!”

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Another episode of “Mom.... something’s wrong! Come look at my pussy!”

 

 

 

🤣🤣😂

Oh yes, the poor Mom is getting a wrinkle on her neck. Whatever will she do.   Oh!!! Doesn't matter, her rich parents will pay for her lift!  🙄 Such problems.....

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Really got annoyed when Jojo was talking about her body dysmorphia and jazz says she can relate because she didn’t have boobs at 11??? Many 11 year olds don’t have any breast development. Just seems like she’s so out of touch with what transitioning really is like for most people. 

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Watching Jazz suddenly have an anxiety attack when speaking to her sister Ari - I think she has anxiety any time she's challenged.  I really have difficulty seeing how she's going to cope with the high stress that can come with going to university AND being on her own in another city.  

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I truly wish that Jeanette would stop wearing cold shoulder tops - well, actually, she needs a complete overhaul - cosmetic surgery if that is what she wants, a totally new wardrobe, new glasses, makeup, hair.  Even without cosmetic surgery, they rest would make a huge difference.  Everything about her is so very dated.  Her mother reminds me of the woman who does Prancercise.

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Jeanette will need a lot more than a little face lift to stop having the most punchable face in the world 😄 

Looks like Greg and Jeanette won the battle (she picked Harvard) but not yet the war, since she's currently not going anywhere.

I know it's not my business and I don't expect the show to let me know, but I'd be curious as to what type of therapy Jojo is having/has had.

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14 minutes ago, princelina said:I know it's not my business and I don't expect the show to let me know, but I'd be curious as to what type of therapy Jojo is having/has had.

 

Well whatever therapy Jojo had, I’m sure it wasn’t from her cousin Doobie...

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Jazz: I got into Harvard on my own merit, also I'm really bad at communicating and can't get my points across.

Jeanette: Its been a really stressful year with my father and daughter's surgeries so I'm going to have surgery

Jojo looks in proportion to me, I think shes got a great figure and her boobs look the right size for her frame. She's got a great face and you wouldn't think her voice is anything other than female. Breast implants aren't a one off surgery, if you follow recommendations you should have the implants replaced every 10 years while most people leave it longer, getting them done while still a teenager you're going to have many more surgeries. There are so many people who are speaking out about the dangers of implants.

IMHO it seems like the money would be better spent on intense therapy, thats something that I didn't hear mentioned at all. I don't like suicide being used as a reason someone should have surgery, its incredibly emotionally manipulative and IMHO why Jazz has grown up without boundaries.

If any non-trans teenager said that they would kill themselves without plastic surgery, it would likely yield very different results just like the Grandma said no one would let a 15 year old do this (the FDA don't approve implants under 18 so its technically an off label use and it would be interesting to know what Dr is doing this).

I don't see how Jazz thought her going there, trying to browbeat the Grandma and then rolling not just her eyes but her whole head. Jazz who has very fixed viewpoints is irritated that other people do too, shock horror!

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Oh look, Jazz manages to make Jojo’s talk with her grandmother all about her by storming out like that. Why is she forcing herself into their family like that? 
 

Is Jojo on the same hormone blockers that Jazz is on? She looks like she was born female. Honestly her grandmother really doesn’t sound that wrong just because she wants her to wait til she’s 18 to get surgery. 🙄 

And sorry Jazz, but you did get into Harvard because of who you are. If it was a choice between you and a non-famous trans activist with the same grades, they’d choose you. 

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What is it about Pomona that makes it so enticing to Jazz? I’ve never even heard of it. Why is she so obsessed with some random college all the way across the country? 

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6 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

What is it about Pomona that makes it so enticing to Jazz? I’ve never even heard of it. Why is she so obsessed with some random college all the way across the country? 

It is, appearently, the #1 college in The US.  It's more like a small community college, or glorified high school. Their Football team is in Dvision III. Plus, it is in California.

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13 minutes ago, Visaman666 said:

It is, appearently, the #1 college in The US. 

According to whom?

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I just think it's so hypocritical that Jeanette has this "let your kids decide their own path" attitude in general, but is pressuring Jazz to go to Harvard even though she CLEARLY doesn't want to. That kind of ultra-competitive environment would destroy Jazz and her family doesn't seem to care. A small liberal arts college is perfect for her.

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9 hours ago, maggiegil said:

Jazz: I got into Harvard on my own merit, also I'm really bad at communicating and can't get my points across.

Jeanette: Its been a really stressful year with my father and daughter's surgeries so I'm going to have surgery

Jojo looks in proportion to me, I think shes got a great figure and her boobs look the right size for her frame. She's got a great face and you wouldn't think her voice is anything other than female. Breast implants aren't a one off surgery, if you follow recommendations you should have the implants replaced every 10 years while most people leave it longer, getting them done while still a teenager you're going to have many more surgeries. There are so many people who are speaking out about the dangers of implants.

IMHO it seems like the money would be better spent on intense therapy, thats something that I didn't hear mentioned at all. I don't like suicide being used as a reason someone should have surgery, its incredibly emotionally manipulative and IMHO why Jazz has grown up without boundaries.

If any non-trans teenager said that they would kill themselves without plastic surgery, it would likely yield very different results just like the Grandma said no one would let a 15 year old do this (the FDA don't approve implants under 18 so its technically an off label use and it would be interesting to know what Dr is doing this).

I don't see how Jazz thought her going there, trying to browbeat the Grandma and then rolling not just her eyes but her whole head. Jazz who has very fixed viewpoints is irritated that other people do too, shock horror!

Valid points! Teenaged bodies are constantly changing whether trans or not. To do any kind of plastic surgery on them is risky at best. That's why doctors encourage them to wait until at least 18 or even older. And someone suffering from body dysmorphia, won't miraculously be cured by getting bigger breasts, because that person will find something else they don't like about themselves. And start a vicious cycle of many surgical procedures to change their appearance.

I'm starting to wonder why I am still watching this show, because it aggravates me to no end. Whether it be with Noelle or JoJo, it's like others have said, Jazz ALWAYS makes it about HER! And yes I get it's HER show, but my goodness, why are they even friends with this girl?

And though I'm not exactly discounting Jazz's  'anxiety' attacks, they seem to happen when things aren't going her way. 

 

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I'll give Jazz some credit that she was getting upset when talking to JoJo's grandmother and chose to walk away rather than throw a fit.  When she came back, while visibly upset, she tried to make her point.  It is a more mature approach than we've seen from her in the past when she would just brush people off as haters, refusing to consider having a meaningful conversation. 

If the grandmother made the point that it's too early for breast surgery, doctors wait for a reason, etc., I would agree with her.  After JoJo has bottom surgery, she may well find that her body changes even more.  That will be like a second puberty.  when she is through that, she can see how she feels about her body.  

Unfortunately the grandmother had brought up "It's just a phase".  That never plays well. She doesn't seem to understand much about JoJo's gender or how it has affected her.  

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Yeah, I get so aggravated with this show too, I don't know why I'm still watching. The only sane people are Ari, Jack and Jackie. I can't include Greg in that group because he never puts his foot down with Jazz. To have your own mother say that at age 18 or however old Jazz is, "she makes poor decisions"...that says as much about the parenting she received - or lack thereof - as it does about the child in question. Jeanette has a right to be worried about Jazz going so far away to school because Jazz won't keep up with her dilation, her hygiene seems questionable even on a good day (though so does Ari's and the boys so maybe they just have really oily hair and skin, in which case they need to find a skincare/hair care regime that takes care of that shit), she binge eats in secret, and she claims anxiety whenever anyone questions her opinions, even if it's done is a non-threatening manner like Ari did last night. Honestly? I can totally see why she 'took a year off' because I don't think she's capable of doing the basics to care for herself in a college setting where she's living in a dorm away from mommy. It's sad but that seems to be the reality.

Re Jojo, is she not on the same hormones that Jazz was? Is that why her breasts haven't filled out? Or is it that she is on the same stuff but it's not worked for her in terms of filling her out? She just seems like a very thin, waif-like girl, I just don't see the big deal with her not having an 'ample bosom' at this point because she looks more like a cis female than Jazz does. That said, I don't even know why we're bothering with this 'Granny isn't being supportive' storyline because it's between Jojo and her mother and her mother supports the surgery so why are we being saddled with such a lame side story? Oh that's right, so Jazz can show the world what a great advocate she is? To quote her, "She's a bad communicator" and no Jazz, it doesn't have anything to do with finally having bottom surgery. You've shown yourself to be a bad communicator, a pouter, and a runner awayer anytime people don't agree with your black and white world view.

Lastly, Jackie is the LAST person I'd go to a plastic surgery consult with, unless it was to say, Doctor please don't make me look like my mother.

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16 hours ago, whydoievencare said:

Watching Jazz suddenly have an anxiety attack when speaking to her sister Ari - I think she has anxiety any time she's challenged.  I really have difficulty seeing how she's going to cope with the high stress that can come with going to university AND being on her own in another city.  

I was just coming on here to say something about her anxiety issues.  I have anxiety so I know the hell that it is...but I HOPE she doesn't use it to shut down conversation.   

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I think that Jazz has grown some in the maturity area and with dealing with conflict, but, I wonder if she's moved into these moments of what she calls panic to avoid the issue.  Notice that when she's in conflict, she says she's in anxiety mode and the topic is tabled.  That's a way out for her, which, might not be a bad thing.  It's something she needs to deal with though, with a professional counselor or doctor.  Using that technique may not serve her well long term.  I say this as a person who has suffered panic attacks.  They are NOT fun and extremely scary.  If you're having them, you need help pronto to address it.  Mine resolved quickly, when I was diagnosed. Thank goodness.  

I think this would have been  a good opportunity for Jazz to interject a little wisdom with the topic of surgery.  Something like this, when her friend was discussing the breast augmentation. "I've learned that surgery is a very serious decision. Things don't always go the way you think.  Results vary and you may not be as pleased as you expect right away.  It's such a big decision, that I'd wait longer and see how things are going to settle down with your body.  There are so many things you can focus on before having surgery.  If most doctors say wait longer for young people, there's a reason for that. In retrospect, I wish I had done things a little differently.  Please don't discount warnings about the procedure."  For me, this would have shown so much maturity.  But, despite it all, maybe, Jazz does feel that she needed that surgery to change her life.    

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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I think Jazz wants everyone to acknowledge her as the expert on transgender issues and she gets upset if anyone voices a different opinion. She actually had no right getting involved in the conversation between JoJo and her family. I would have concerns about the breast surgery too because JoJo is saying she is unhappy now and thinks she will be happy with bigger breasts, but she needs to see a therapist to figure out what is really going on and if she might feel different when she has her bottom surgery (if she hasn't already, I can't recall).

This is maybe a bit off topic but I don't remember big breasts being any sort of concern when I was younger. I do understand it is different for transgender women but I wonder why all woman can't be happy with smaller breasts. I had small breasts as a teenager and never thought twice about it. It kind of bothers me that the ideal now is stick thin bodies with huge breasts when it used to be average sized bodies with average sized breasts. It also doesn't surprise me that Jeanette wants to have surgery and I think she should and let someone else take care of Jazz for awhile, the woman has done enough. 

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12 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

What is it about Pomona that makes it so enticing to Jazz?

It's a small, liberal arts college (through which students can take classes at the other Claremont Colleges as well, giving them the atmosphere of a small school but with the resources of a larger one) with a great reputation for academics, diversity (economic as well as racial/ethnic and gender), and activism.  It's rare for a class to have more than 30 students, and in fact I think the average class size is around 15.  There are ample opportunities for interaction with professors (and it's indeed professors, not grad students, teaching all classes) outside of the classroom as well.  Lots of travel abroad programs, internships, and research opportunities are available (and utilized).  Graduates have a very high acceptance rate to graduate schools.

I have no affiliation, I just know a fair bit about it and think it's a terrific school (and it's highly selective - less than 10 percent of applications are accepted - so getting in there is a big deal, too) and, particularly, an ideal environment for Jazz.  It gets her away from home, but into a small, supportive environment in which she won't be so overwhelmed and can thrive among students who are interested in societal issues as well as their studies.  You have to apply to live off campus, and very few students do (all four years, not just freshmen), so Jazz wouldn't be able to isolate herself too much.

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It’s pretty sad when the only goal you have for your daughter is that she be pretty!

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1 hour ago, Kid said:

It’s pretty sad when the only goal you have for your daughter is that she be pretty!

Agreed, but at least Jackie was acknowledging that she regrets having felt that way.  I had a mother like that, and the insecurity never goes away...

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3 hours ago, Kid said:

It’s pretty sad when the only goal you have for your daughter is that she be pretty!

And especially ironic given all the fakakta work Jackie's had done to her face. Oy vey.

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Is JoJo’s grandmother being asked to pay for the surgery or something ?  If not, why would it matter what she thinks ?  Is the whole visit to JoJo’s grandmother some sort of scripted opportunity for Jazz to advocate ? That’s the only way he whole thing makes sense to me.  It hardly seems like a “reality” show.

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5 minutes ago, Mary said:

Is JoJo’s grandmother being asked to pay for the surgery or something ?  If not, why would it matter what she thinks ?

That's exactly what I was wondering.  Jeanette said something about JoJo's mom being a single mom - so perhaps they need some financial help from the grandmother.

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4 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I think Jazz wants everyone to acknowledge her as the expert on transgender issues and she gets upset if anyone voices a different opinion. She actually had no right getting involved in the conversation between JoJo and her family. I would have concerns about the breast surgery too because JoJo is saying she is unhappy now and thinks she will be happy with bigger breasts, but she needs to see a therapist to figure out what is really going on and if she might feel different when she has her bottom surgery (if she hasn't already, I can't recall).

The thing I thought was weird was her mom saying that she spends all that time pulling on her breasts and pinching them to make them look bigger?  That's just weird - not to mention impossible - which is what made me wonder about her therapy.

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7 hours ago, gingerella said:

Lastly, Jackie is the LAST person I'd go to a plastic surgery consult with, unless it was to say, Doctor please don't make me look like my mother.

YES! (sorry for yelling) She is a walking "before" picture and hearing that the height of her aspirations for her daughter when she was born was, "please be pretty" makes her "look" make sense in a very sad, sad way. I actually felt pretty sorry for Jeanette in this episode at times because what she really needs is some therapy and then to ditch the cold shoulder tops, the sparkly eye shadow, the Farrah Fawcett hair, and the caked on makeup in general, and she would look so much better. 

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14 hours ago, TomGirl said:

According to whom?

I found several sources that rank it the number 1 liberal arts college in America. 

Here's one place.

https://www.niche.com/colleges/pomona-college/rankings/

 

Forbes also frequently lists it as number 1, or at least in the top 5.

Remember that we talking about colleges not universities.  As far as universities go U.S. News & World Report lists Harvard as ranked number 1 not just in America, but number 1 in the world.

U.S. News lists Pomona as number 5, but it's in very good company on the list.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges

I had never even heard of Pomona College until I watched this show.

To me Jazz does not seem like a fit for Harvard, although the tuition is $8,000 a year cheaper than Pomona.  Harvard is $46,000 a year, and Pomona is $54,000.   At Pomona with fees, room and board it's $72,000 a year!!!  Holy shit!  I hope Greg is a partner at his law firm, or that Jazz has a full ride scholarship.

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9 hours ago, Honey said:

Remember that we talking about colleges not universities

Ah, now it makes a lot more sense.  Thanks for the info!

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I think Jeanette wants Jazz to go to Harvard just so she can brag more.  What difference does it make if she makes bad decisions in California vs Boston?  She's still far away.  She could live next door and still make the same, crappy decisions.  

Jazz has no clue how the real world works.  She is the last person to tell others they should have surgery to save their lives and that it'll make it all better.  Her anxiety attacks have been all too convenient too.  As soon as she claimed that, and Ari backed off, Jazz went on like normal and when Greg walked in, was all chipper. 

One thing I rolled my eyes at was Greg telling Jeanette she shouldn't have plastic surgery because, "what if you're recovering and Jazz needs you...in college".  So she's supposed to put her life on hold in case Jazz has another meltdown and needs Jeanette to come running?  Stop living your life in Jazz's world.  This is why she is the way she is.  

Jeanette looked a tad better after the makeover.  She still had frosty eyeshadow on which she needs to stay away from. 

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Sorry, but....the reason Jeanette never felt pretty is because she isn't pretty. Just look at her mother, she takes after her. She still snagged a good looking man that makes a great living and appears to adore her so what does looks have to do with it, anyway? If she wants to get her neck lifted and her jowls/frown lines softened then I say go for it but it's not going to make her "pretty." She has very strong, masculine features. She needs a good haircut and a color correction on that brassy blonde and stop with the heavy eye makeup. Rule #1 on an aging face is lighten up on the eye makeup. It makes a world of difference.   

Loved the convo between Jazz and her sister. Ari has Jazz's number and Jazz didn't like hearing it. Ari is the only one in the family that doesn't kiss ass. 

Both Jazz and Jeanette need to butt out of JoJo's business. If JoJo is resorting to pinching her boobies until they are red and sore, resulting in inflicting pain on herself, then she needs more than a boob job. Girl needs therapy. The Dr. said she was too young and needed to wait so while she's waiting to be old enough for surgery get a job after school and save your pennies, Jo. 

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1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Sorry, but....the reason Jeanette never felt pretty is because she isn't pretty. Just look at her mother, she takes after her. She still snagged a good looking man that makes a great living and appears to adore her so what does looks have to do with it, anyway? If she wants to get her neck lifted and her jowls/frown lines softened then I say go for it but it's not going to make her "pretty." She has very strong, masculine features. She needs a good haircut and a color correction on that brassy blonde and stop with the heavy eye makeup. Rule #1 on an aging face is lighten up on the eye makeup. It makes a world of difference.   

Loved the convo between Jazz and her sister. Ari has Jazz's number and Jazz didn't like hearing it. Ari is the only one in the family that doesn't kiss ass. 

Both Jazz and Jeanette need to butt out of JoJo's business. If JoJo is resorting to pinching her boobies until they are red and sore, resulting in inflicting pain on herself, then she needs more than a boob job. Girl needs therapy. The Dr. said she was too young and needed to wait so while she's waiting to be old enough for surgery get a job after school and save your pennies, Jo. 

I'd be surprised if she goes and gets all that work done without also indulging in a heavy peel or Co2 laser to help her badly sun damaged skin, which is aging her just as much as her neck and jowl lines. 

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3 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Sorry, but....the reason Jeanette never felt pretty is because she isn't pretty.

I totally agree and to go further, I don't understand grown women who place such a massive value on being or feeling pretty. If you don't have beauty, figure out what you DO have and work with THAT. I'm not beautiful, never have been and never will be. I value the traits I do have and the things I have some control over, like my physical fitness and my intellect. It's truly tragic that this middle-aged woman has had such poor self-image drilled into her head for so long and that she continues to let it bother her so much. Seems like a LOT of the people in this episode need therapy 😛

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3 hours ago, whydoievencare said:

Apparently vaginal dilation is a huge commitment:  I had no idea how involved it was and how much time was necessary to do it.   http://www.chet-plasticsurgery.com/dr-chettawuts-vaginal-dilatation-instructions/

 

Wow! I just do NOT see Jazz keeping up with dilation at all. I hate to say it, but she lacks commitment and will probably  just assume someone can fix it again. And again. And again.

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On 2/12/2020 at 1:22 PM, gingerella said:

Lastly, Jackie is the LAST person I'd go to a plastic surgery consult with, unless it was to say, Doctor please don't make me look like my mother.

Even more ironic was Jack and Jackie telling the doctor they basically make fun of people in their retirement center who have had work done. 

Much like Greg, I couldn't tell the difference in the before and after pictures either. 

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On 2/14/2020 at 2:37 AM, gingerella said:

Wow! I just do NOT see Jazz keeping up with dilation at all. I hate to say it, but she lacks commitment and will probably  just assume someone can fix it again. And again. And again.

I agree. 

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On 2/14/2020 at 1:37 AM, gingerella said:

Wow! I just do NOT see Jazz keeping up with dilation at all. I hate to say it, but she lacks commitment and will probably  just assume someone can fix it again. And again. And again.

Yikes--  3 times a day for 50 minutes each time until 2 years out from surgery?!?!!!   Jeanette made it sound like a once a day deal.   Also it says if you quit for a while, resuming will be useless.   I can't see Jazz keeping up with this at all.  She should probably take a second gap year just to dilate.  (I wonder if Dr Marcy's schedule varies significantly from this.)

Edited to add:  Dr Bowers instructions vary a lot.   Maybe another reason they chose her.    https://marcibowers.com/transfem/gav/post-op-care/

I am with others who think that the "intervention" on behalf of JoJo must have been scripted into the episode.  There seemed to be no explanation why she needs the grandmother's approval unless grandmother is paying.  Otherwise, it should be between mom and daughter.  The grandmother really didn't seem like she believed it was a "phase" despite saying it.  I think she was just told to come up with an objection so they could have a story line.   I thought Jojo was  really cute the way she is.  Bigger boobs might not look that great on her. 

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Okay, I clicked on the link to Bowers's site. Why the hell does she have a whole section for her recipes? Seriously, that's possibly the oddest thing I've ever seen. 

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21 hours ago, Twopper said:

Yikes--  3 times a day for 50 minutes each time until 2 years out from surgery?!?!!!   Jeanette made it sound like a once a day deal.   Also it says if you quit for a while, resuming will be useless.   I can't see Jazz keeping up with this at all.  She should probably take a second gap year just to dilate.  (I wonder if Dr Marcy's schedule varies significantly from this.)

Edited to add:  Dr Bowers instructions vary a lot.   Maybe another reason they chose her.    https://marcibowers.com/transfem/gav/post-op-care/

I am with others who think that the "intervention" on behalf of JoJo must have been scripted into the episode.  There seemed to be no explanation why she needs the grandmother's approval unless grandmother is paying.  Otherwise, it should be between mom and daughter.  The grandmother really didn't seem like she believed it was a "phase" despite saying it.  I think she was just told to come up with an objection so they could have a story line.   I thought Jojo was  really cute the way she is.  Bigger boobs might not look that great on her. 

If I recall correctly, one of Jazz's reasons that the surgery had to happen now! now! and not after she turned 18 was so that she could be home to do her dilation before going to college.  Now I didn't know any better and figured she could get it done in that time - but they certainly should have known there was more to it than that!

WRT Jojo's grandmother - when Jojo first reported that conversation to Jazz she said something like, "I told my grandmother I know you were hoping it was just a phase and she told me she had been hoping that."  So it sounded kind of past tense to me until they all went and ambushed her.  And I don't think telling a teen to wait until she's 18 for plastic surgery is unreasonable; I do think threats of suicide if she can't have it is.

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48 minutes ago, princelina said:

If I recall correctly, one of Jazz's reasons that the surgery had to happen now! now! and not after she turned 18 was so that she could be home to do her dilation before going to college.  Now I didn't know any better and figured she could get it done in that time - but they certainly should have known there was more to it than that!

WRT Jojo's grandmother - when Jojo first reported that conversation to Jazz she said something like, "I told my grandmother I know you were hoping it was just a phase and she told me she had been hoping that."  So it sounded kind of past tense to me until they all went and ambushed her.  And I don't think telling a teen to wait until she's 18 for plastic surgery is unreasonable; I do think threats of suicide if she can't have it is.

I agree and I kind of hate how Jazz basically demonizes anyone with an opinion that differs from hers.... She's a teenage know-it-all with very little life experience other than focusing on her crotch 24/7 and she's in no position to be lecturing Jojo's gramma.

She did the same thing with Amhirs mother...  If you don't agree with everything Jazz says you're labeled as narrow minded, a bigot, insensitive, nasty, uncaring, uninformed etc, etc...

She never actually listens to the other person or tries to understand their position and that they're sincerely concerned.... and by looking at Jazz's complications the grandma has every right to be concerned and worry about her granddaughter jumping in with both feet before making sure it's what's best for her.

Jazz gets to sit there rolling her eyes and looking disgusted... Like as if the way she handled things was the only way.

I think Jojo should take her time and learn from all the complications Jazz has experienced and choose the best path forward for herself.... There's no need for Jojo to follow Jazz like a lemming off the edge of a cliff.

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3 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

I agree and I kind of hate how Jazz basically demonizes anyone with an opinion that differs from hers.... She's a teenage know-it-all with very little life experience other than focusing on her crotch 24/7 and she's in no position to be lecturing Jojo's gramma.

She did the same thing with Amhirs mother...  If you don't agree with everything Jazz says you're labeled as narrow minded, a bigot, insensitive, nasty, uncaring, uninformed etc, etc...

She never actually listens to the other person or tries to understand their position and that they're sincerely concerned.... and by looking at Jazz's complications the grandma has every right to be concerned and worry about her granddaughter jumping in with both feet before making sure it's what's best for her.

Jazz gets to sit there rolling her eyes and looking disgusted... Like as if the way she handled things was the only way.

I think Jojo should take her time and learn from all the complications Jazz has experienced and choose the best path forward for herself.... There's no need for Jojo to follow Jazz like a lemming off the edge of a cliff.

And let's not forget that just a few scenes before, Jeanette was lamenting about how she can't trust Jazz to make decisions, but yet here she is, in all her teenage wisdom, telling a woman who has lived a life, how she should think and to not be closed minded. And then to further prove her immaturity, gets emotional and flees the discussion. And Jojo's grandmother wasn't closed minded or an asshole, she actually reached over and tried to be comforting to Jazz when she started tearing up.

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I read the instructions about a life time of followup and attention post surgery.  I can't see that going well, unless Jazz really has a huge turnaround. I think that she has many wonderful traits, but, following up with the dilations, hmm....I don't see it. I wonder what happens if you don't do it. 

I've been thinking about the extreme desire that Jazz's parents have for her to attend Harvard.  I get how you want the best for your adult child, but, with them, it seems almost like a ego thing. Like, it would be great to say as a parent that your child attended Harvard.  I just wonder if it wouldn't be better to tell her, that they are proud of her wherever she decides to attend and leave it at that. If she makes a decision that she later regrets, then, so be it.  Life is about choices.  For me, it's her choice. 

After my first year of law school, I thought that I had made the wrong decision.  I wrestled with it and felt that I had invested too much to turn around, so pushed forward two more years.  I'm glad I did. 

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