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S04.E13: A Hell of a Week: Part Three

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17 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I can think of one brother who's going to want to pound him into the ground.

I can think of TWO!

 

17 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't know if Kate is doing anything better by calling Gregory than Toby was in confiding in his Crossfit female friend.  A little bit different, but maybe a little bit dangerous.

I know what you're saying, but I kind of don't think it's as bad because at least Gregory knows Toby and Toby knows he and Kate are friends, whereas Kate didn't have a clue about Toby's crossfit friend.  That seems a bit more clandestine to me.

 

17 hours ago, bettername2come said:

The boyfriend is a jerk. I hate that Kate doesn't see it...

Oh, Kate sees it.  She just doesn't want to acknowledge or believe it.  But she sees it.  She's not stupid.

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1 hour ago, kicksave said:

Wait what? Kate is an adult in those scenes with Mark? I thought she was 16 or 17...the actress playing her doesn’t look 18 and they have dressed like she’s still in high school.

Perhaps this is your first season watching, but it has been well established that Randall is in college and Kevin is married. Kate opted out of college after Jack died and got a job in the music store where she met Marc. No one is in high school.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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It seems likely that Kate and Marc have not had sex yet, and that Kate is too confused to realize that that might be his expectation at the cabin. Her refusal might cause him to lock her out.

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10 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

Oh, Kate sees it.  She just doesn't want to acknowledge or believe it.  But she sees it.  She's not stupid.

They also showed her rationalizing it to her mom before Mark showed up. “His parents are getting divorced, his dad’s really hard on him.” She knows he sometimes acts badly. But between the times when he’s good to her and the fact that she’s internalized that she has to take what she can get in terms of male attention (a pattern that I believe continues for a while, as there’s an episode in her 20s when she sleeps with a man she finds out is married & is pretty resigned about it), she waves off the bad behavior like it’s a tax she has to pay to have a boyfriend that is nice to her sometimes. He makes her feel bad but he - his attention - also makes her feel good. I think she’s at the point where she thinks if SHE can be better, they as a couple can be better. In their phone conversations she was asking what SHE had done to make him so angry. She hasn’t yet gotten that his behavior is on him.

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14 minutes ago, slasherboy said:
18 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't know if Kate is doing anything better by calling Gregory than Toby was in confiding in his Crossfit female friend.  A little bit different, but maybe a little bit dangerous.

I know what you're saying, but I kind of don't think it's as bad because at least Gregory knows Toby and Toby knows he and Kate are friends, whereas Kate didn't have a clue about Toby's crossfit friend.  That seems a bit more clandestine to me.

Yes, it is a little different and I don't know if it's any better or worse, yet. They are both confiding in someone else and not connecting with each other. What pinged my spidey senses was Kate not wanting her mother to know that wasn't Toby on the phone. That's a little clandestine. Not totally above board. It could be and probably is nothing more than friendship. However, when I put that together with what Rebecca said to her about if Toby does not step up, she is strong and equipped to raise Jack on her own, I think some arrows are pointing to them splitting in the future. Even if Toby comes to terms with Jack's blindness, they just may never get back on the same wavelength.

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We know that Toby exists in the future and is present at what we think may be the last days of Rebecca's life. If Toby was not around for Jack's upbringing, I cannot see why the Pearsons would want him around. 

Interesting discussion about Toby's interaction with the Crossfit woman and Kate's with Gregory. One difference is that I don't think we've seen Kate complain about Toby around Gregory. Kate is sharing something she is interested in to Gregory. Had Toby and Crossfit woman just kept their discussions around crossfit (their interest), I don't think that'd be bad. Granted, Jack Jr and his blindness is a lot more personal than crossfit, but Kate seems to have kept the discussion at a distance. 

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Re: Kate and the retreat and surprising Toby. Toby is the king of grand gestures. I saw this as a grand gesture on Kate's part and if he gets to do them, she should be able to as well. Toby *should have manned up for the sake of his family, however I admit that I'm glad it turned out the way it did because we had some really beautiful moments with Kate and Rebecca. In a perfect world, all four of them would have gone to the retreat. It would have allowed for bonding time for all of them together and in pairs. 

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4 hours ago, kicksave said:

Uh...ok...I wasn't  ridiculing her I was merely voicing concern for her health. How is that off topic? 

Wait what? Kate is an adult in those scenes with Mark? I thought she was 16 or 17...the actress playing her doesn’t look 18 and they have dressed like she’s still in high school.

She's not 16 or 17 at this point in the series. They've graduated high school and are in College. So about 18-19. Which is legally an adult. The actress playing her is actually 20.

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3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Of course you are right about the cabin, but how would she stop them from going? Race them to the cabin and get to the hidden key first? Call the local police and have Kate and Marc arrested when they get there?  Tell Kate that she can't return home if she goes with Marc? Her options are very limited since Kate is over 18, and reasoning with her will not work. (In real life, though, a brief discussion about birth control would have been appropriate, as this is Kate's first away time with a boyfriend.)

Rebecca is so desperate to be friends with Teen Kate, she often does not set healthy boundaries. I think Rebecca wants young Kate to be the Rory to her Lorelei.

Its different now that Kate is an adult and just needs a sympathetic ear and some advice.

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3 hours ago, memememe76 said:

We know that Toby exists in the future and is present at what we think may be the last days of Rebecca's life. If Toby was not around for Jack's upbringing, I cannot see why the Pearsons would want him around. 

IIRC when they offered to let Toby see the (I suppose) dying Rebecca, he said something to the effect of, I'm not sure she'd want to see me. Which I took to mean he and Kate weren't together.

Then there was the close up in the flash forward of Kate signing that police form or whatever when they found the lost Rebecca and brought her to the 40th birthday party that Randall wasn't invited to. She signed Kate Pearson. Sure, she could've kept her maiden name (hell I did it in 1980 when it wasn't well accepted) but why bother to show that close up of her signing Pearson? 

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36 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

IIRC when they offered to let Toby see the (I suppose) dying Rebecca, he said something to the effect of, I'm not sure she'd want to see me. Which I took to mean he and Kate weren't together.

Yes, I think he had to be coaxed, by either Randall or Kevin on the phone who said that "she'd" want you to be there.  There would be no need for that kind of prompting if he was still together with Kate.

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5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Perhaps this is your first season watching, but it has been well established that Randall is in college and Kevin is married. Kate opted out of college after Jack died and got a job in the music store where she met Marc. No one is in high school.

Uh...no. I’ve been watching since day one. I can’t keep track of where everyone is with all the back and forth of time/places/ages. Maybe because the actress playing teen age Kate looks 16 not 18...frankly, I don’t think anyone could jump into this show at this point in the series and possibly understand everything that is going on.

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I came here to see if anyone else thinks teen Kate has a fat/split lip when making the call from the pay phone? Or maybe it’s just an errant shadow.

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27 minutes ago, Cancun said:

I came here to see if anyone else thinks teen Kate has a fat/split lip when making the call from the pay phone? Or maybe it’s just an errant shadow.

 

Oh my gods, I think maybe! I am actually rewatching now and I"ll pay more attention. I have suspected for several episodes that they were leading up to an abusive relationship. Not sure if all emotional or some physical as well, but I think since we see Mark driving erratically and his all-alone day drinking when he's on the phone with Kate, there's a good chance he pushes her around. I mean, he literally shoved her out of a car. Grrr. 

 

ETA: Nah, it looks like the shadow of her nose. The moments prior to that, her lips are normal looking. 

Edited by HollyGoLitely333
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17 hours ago, Ana88 said:

I know it's hard if kids don't all live around you etc but I really do think in these scenarios you want to try to have a family meeting and tell your kids all together. No matter how grown up they are at the time. I know if it was me and my mom

Every time my mother has gotten test results back on her various medical concerns, she ensure she conferences both sisters in so we find out at the same time. Even when the family dog passed away, she conferenced us in (my sister and I are never more than 20 min apart, but Mom is long distance)

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A few more observations: 

  1. Kate's "can you be the man I need you to be" and Rebecca telling her it's okay to ask Toby to step it up is a direct nod to the conversation Jack & Rebecca had on the couch when he was staying out after work and drinking with Miguel. 
  2. Baby Jack is possibly the cutest baby on all of TV. He's so delicious. And if only my baby was as quiet and sleepy as he apparently is. Hahahaha.
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On 2/11/2020 at 9:11 PM, bettername2come said:

The boyfriend is a jerk. I hate that Kate doesn't see it, and I can't help but imagine what Jack Sr. would do if he saw this behavior. 

Only one? I mean, Randall's at least gonna want to hold him while Kevin punches him.

Right now I'm wondering if they killed him and buried the body out behind the beloved cabin.  

More realistically I think they find Kate after he beat the crap out of her. To the point where she has several broken bones. Mark took off never to be seem again.

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Okay, last comment on this episode. I mean it! 

There are just a TON of parallels between the storylines involving Kate & Marc meeting Rebecca and Jack meeting Rebecca's parents. Jack was rough around the edges but treated Rebecca well. Her dad was hard on Jack because he wasn't upper crust while her mom was more understanding. And Marc is like jagged and frayed and messy around the edges and Rebecca is having none of it for good reason. 

PS: Good to know EVERYONE sounds bad at the hand of a karaoke sound system. 

Edited by HollyGoLitely333
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12 hours ago, ams1001 said:

If my parents owned a cabin like that they certainly wouldn't let me just decide to go there in the middle of winter when it's been closed up for months, at age 18. 

Mr. EB's family has a cabin that his grandparents built back in ye olden days. Usually someone goes up in the spring to open the cabin for the summer. They usually close it up at some point after Labor Day. People have used the cabin in the winter, but that's usually only for the weekend. Mr. EB said that he and his friends sometimes drove up in the winter during high school and college to spend one or two days there. It's not that hard to open the cabin but sometimes if they were only going for one day, they didn't bother with fully opening the cabin (turning on the water and gas).

12 hours ago, kicksave said:

Wait what? Kate is an adult in those scenes with Mark? I thought she was 16 or 17...the actress playing her doesn’t look 18 and they have dressed like she’s still in high school.

Although the question of her age has been addressed, I just wanted to add that I didn't start dressing differently once I turned 18. I brought a bunch of my high school clothes with me when I moved into the dorms (my parents were not about to buy me a new wardrobe just because I left for college).

I think that's doubly true for Kate because she still lives at home (some people try to remake themselves when they start college) so there was no transition to a new situation. On top of that, I think Kate dresses the same when she's 18 as when she was in high school is because the baby doll dresses and loose flannel shirts of the mid 90s grunge era hid her body shape.

11 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I didn't realize Mark is 23 - I assumed he was 18 or 19 like Kate.

It was mentioned a few times in earlier episodes. During the raw chicken dinner when Kevin, Kate, and Randall were in the kitchen, one of them (I think it was Kevin) brought up the age difference as something he didn't like. I remember that the first time we found out his age, I was like yeah, RED FLAG because five years is a big difference when the younger person is only 18.

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Did Rebecca really describe Kate as having empathy for everything?

In a family filled with self-centered people, Kate stands out as being one of the most self-obsessed and least empathetic.

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2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mr. EB's family has a cabin that his grandparents built back in ye olden days. Usually someone goes up in the spring to open the cabin for the summer. They usually close it up at some point after Labor Day. People have used the cabin in the winter, but that's usually only for the weekend. Mr. EB said that he and his friends sometimes drove up in the winter during high school and college to spend one or two days there. It's not that hard to open the cabin but sometimes if they were only going for one day, they didn't bother with fully opening the cabin (turning on the water and gas).

It was mentioned a few times in earlier episodes. During the raw chicken dinner when Kevin, Kate, and Randall were in the kitchen, one of them (I think it was Kevin) brought up the age difference as something he didn't like. I remember that the first time we found out his age, I was like yeah, RED FLAG because five years is a big difference when the younger person is only 18.

I had a guy interested in me at 16 (he thought 17/18) when he met me. He was 25? Worked at a projectionist at a theater and my mom found out his age through neighbors/friends (they were our google) She went on about how no "normal" guy wants a girl that young at his age, why didn't he want someone more mature or out of school, etc. I was flattered but deep down knew she was right. It was hard though because I never liked anyone in high school really but I wasn't really that mature and obviously neither was he. Hard to watch Kate be so gullible. She might be a little heavier than her peers, I can't believe the heaviest in her school, but not "unlovable". Her mom never said a word as she spoke, never told her she was pretty, you don't have to be a model, etc. She had a lot of offer and if she went to college, she'd see high school isn't the world. But she was silent. I felt that made her thoughts even more cemented although a mom's opinion is biased. Maybe it's me but I thought it was deafening.

I also though her lip looked bruised. In the editing, they left that shadow if it is, but time will tell if he hit her or she fell.

On a lighter note, I hope there are some laughs in the cabin, we need some smiles.

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I remember a girl in high school dating someone who was several years older (22 to her 16 or 17).  We were in the band together.  For away games you didn’t have to ride home on the bus if an adult signed you out.  He was cute enough, but I was always creeped out to see him in line with the parents and signing her out so they could leave for their date.

I come from a large family, and we didn’t always know information at the same time.  When my dad got his first awful news about his cancer, they called my now-husband first to make sure he would be with me when they called.  When my dad got his really awful news about his cancer, he didn’t want anyone to tell me because I had planned a big trip and he didn’t want me to cancel it.  Mom told me anyway, but ordered me to take the trip.  Sometimes it would be a phone chain and I’d get information from a sibling.

Depending on how they write it, I would hope Kevin wouldn’t have a problem being the last to know.  If Rebecca explained it as ”Randall noticed and so knew first and I wanted to tell you others face to face and this is the first time we’ve been together,” I would hope he wouldn’t then make it all about himself.  Considering he is only not speaking with Randall, I hope the fight is something other than over Rebecca.

I am ready for a Rebecca-Kevin episode.

 

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6 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

More realistically I think they find Kate after he beat the crap out of her. To the point where she has several broken bones. Mark took off never to be seem again.

I don't know what's going to happen at the cabin, it will undoubtedly be dramatic, but I think if it was something too traumatic, she wouldn't have wanted to have her wedding there. At least I wouldn't have.

7 hours ago, HollyGoLitely333 said:

Their relationship is becoming a little less strained. Rebecca is shedding a lot to get closer to Kate and Kate is picking it up and opening up. I think this is because Rebecca is aware of her diagnosis and that she might be on limited time to really connect to Kate. I'm so glad she told her the diagnosis so Kate could understand and engage. My mom had an illness that she kept under wraps but she became much more involved and close to me afterward. I didn't know what was going on with her until she got extremely sick and eventually passed away and then it all made sense why she was going out of her way to make peace. 

It was notable to me that in this episode Rebecca actually used the words dementia and Alzheimer's to describe her diagnosis. That pretty much puts to rest the speculations we've had around possibly another neurological problem or past injury. Also pretty remarkable how fast she has seemingly come to terms with it -- saying she's done being sad and worried and wants to make the most of her time, be more fun. That quick acceptance may be because, as you say, she wants more peace and involvement and closeness in the time she has right now. It's sad that soon Kate will be in a position where she has to make sure Rebecca is not ever taking care of Jack by herself.

2 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Depending on how they write it, I would hope Kevin wouldn’t have a problem being the last to know.  If Rebecca explained it as ”Randall noticed and so knew first and I wanted to tell you others face to face and this is the first time we’ve been together,” I would hope he wouldn’t then make it all about himself.  Considering he is only not speaking with Randall, I hope the fight is something other than over Rebecca.

Agreed, I hope that he would not care too much about the how or when of finding out, but the "what" of it, and what it means for his mother, the person at the heart of it. I think his rift with Randall will be about something else.

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4 hours ago, debraran said:

I also though her lip looked bruised. In the editing, they left that shadow if it is, but time will tell if he hit her or she fell.

I wonder if she bit her lip during the harrowing car ride before he stopped? Or maybe her bag caught her in the lip when he threw it out of the car at her?

 

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4 hours ago, debraran said:

I had a guy interested in me at 16 (he thought 17/18) when he met me. He was 25? Worked at a projectionist at a theater and my mom found out his age through neighbors/friends (they were our google) She went on about how no "normal" guy wants a girl that young at his age, why didn't he want someone more mature or out of school, etc. I was flattered but deep down knew she was right. It was hard though because I never liked anyone in high school really but I wasn't really that mature and obviously neither was he. Hard to watch Kate be so gullible. She might be a little heavier than her peers, I can't believe the heaviest in her school, but not "unlovable". Her mom never said a word as she spoke, never told her she was pretty, you don't have to be a model, etc. She had a lot of offer and if she went to college, she'd see high school isn't the world. But she was silent. I felt that made her thoughts even more cemented although a mom's opinion is biased. Maybe it's me but I thought it was deafening.

 

I find it hard to watch Rebecca in those 1999 flashbacks.  I know she is grieving and is still trying to put her life back together after fate threw her a huge curveball.  Being thrust into the workforce for the first time in your life after always having a man to support you is not easy.  Rebecca has never held a full-time job and now has to work to support herself.  I know she is going through a lot.  I know because I watched my mother do the same thing going on 8 years ago.  It is not easy.  But, watching Rebecca only make time for one of her three children, the one who is doing the Jack stuff around the house is difficult to watch.  Kate lives in the same home as Rebecca and she doesn't even know how long Kate and Mark have been dating, and she knows nothing about him.  She also does nothing about Kate's weight gain.  But, Rebecca follows Randall out of the house to continue their conversation about his dreams.  Kate is there and sees this.  She sees her mother apparently not caring about her life but fawning over her brother.  It's no wonder they had a strained relationship in season one.  Kate also sees her mother, quite frankly, using Miguel.  That is probably not Rebecca's intention, but she is using Miguel.  

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2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I remember a girl in high school dating someone who was several years older (22 to her 16 or 17).  We were in the band together.  For away games you didn’t have to ride home on the bus if an adult signed you out.  He was cute enough, but I was always creeped out to see him in line with the parents and signing her out so they could leave for their date.

I come from a large family, and we didn’t always know information at the same time.  When my dad got his first awful news about his cancer, they called my now-husband first to make sure he would be with me when they called.  When my dad got his really awful news about his cancer, he didn’t want anyone to tell me because I had planned a big trip and he didn’t want me to cancel it.  Mom told me anyway, but ordered me to take the trip.  Sometimes it would be a phone chain and I’d get information from a sibling.

Depending on how they write it, I would hope Kevin wouldn’t have a problem being the last to know.  If Rebecca explained it as ”Randall noticed and so knew first and I wanted to tell you others face to face and this is the first time we’ve been together,” I would hope he wouldn’t then make it all about himself.  Considering he is only not speaking with Randall, I hope the fight is something other than over Rebecca.

I am ready for a Rebecca-Kevin episode.

There was a girl on my college dorm hall (19) who was dating a guy who was about 30. Both adults, obviously, and he seemed like a good guy, but everyone thought it was kinda weird (he wisely did not spend a lot of time visiting her room; usually just for a few minutes when he picked her up to go somewhere. I suspect it was equally uncomfortable for him.). 

My cousin died a few years ago while my brother was away. My uncle didn't want him to cut his trip short to come back for the funeral and my mom considered not telling him until he got home. She did end up calling him and he decided not to come home, but I think he would have been upset had he not been given the chance to decide that for himself. (And when my aunt died a couple years ago my mom texted me in the morning while I was getting ready for work, but we had spent several hours with her and the family the day before and I think we were all expecting it to happen during the night.)

I agree that Rebecca should frame it as wanting to tell Kevin in person...but I suspect he will find out from Kate and Randall at the cabin and be upset that Rebecca didn't make an effort to see him sooner and tell him herself.

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35 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I find it hard to watch Rebecca in those 1999 flashbacks.  I know she is grieving and is still trying to put her life back together after fate threw her a huge curveball.  Being thrust into the workforce for the first time in your life after always having a man to support you is not easy.  Rebecca has never held a full-time job and now has to work to support herself.  I know she is going through a lot.  I know because I watched my mother do the same thing going on 8 years ago.  It is not easy.  But, watching Rebecca only make time for one of her three children, the one who is doing the Jack stuff around the house is difficult to watch.  Kate lives in the same home as Rebecca and she doesn't even know how long Kate and Mark have been dating, and she knows nothing about him.  She also does nothing about Kate's weight gain.  But, Rebecca follows Randall out of the house to continue their conversation about his dreams.  Kate is there and sees this.  She sees her mother apparently not caring about her life but fawning over her brother.  It's no wonder they had a strained relationship in season one.  Kate also sees her mother, quite frankly, using Miguel.  That is probably not Rebecca's intention, but she is using Miguel.  

There's no doubt that Rebecca felt abandoned by all but Randall, she said so openly in the therapy session. Her inattention to Kevin has also been highlighted several times. I think she was not only trying to manage her own grief, but was very concerned about all three of the kids' grief as well. There's no one on the planet who's going to ace that particular exam. I don't know what she could do about what Kate puts in her mouth (although 18 year-old Kate is not overweight, not the way 10-year old Kate was, so maybe there was no issue in Rebecca's mind). She did make the effort on her own birthday to be the one to suggest getting to know Mark before the dinner. It's not like she didn't care. I do not see where Rebecca is using Miguel, he brought them a piano, helped with a move, comes to dinner. That's part of what he saw as his promise to Jack, when long ago while signing life insurance papers or something, to look after her and the kids if anything happened to him. She leans too heavily on Randall, but I don't see any intentional or unintentional using of Miguel. Their relationship is yet to be fleshed out, so maybe we will see that but I don't so far. I think he's a good friend to all of them, and as we see several times, no good deed goes unpunished because they don't really appreciate him.

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Finally I can be on Kate's side.  Jack is 10 months old and if his daddy can't learn to love, accept, and help him from this point in his young life - then Kate doesn't need him.  For crying out loud, the man couldn't even give her an affirmative when she asked him point blank if he would be there for both she and Jack for the long haul!  

He wants to watch Star Wars with his son, he wants to play catch with his son.  Hell, he can do all of those things with Jack, just not in the way the Great Cross-Fit-Toby wants it done.  

It seems to me that Toby lost more than weight.  He lost what made Kate fall in love with him in the first place.

If a parent needs therapy in order to learn how to love and accept a baby, something is definitely amiss.

Edited by Evagirl · Reason: typo
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12 hours ago, kicksave said:

Uh...no. I’ve been watching since day one. I can’t keep track of where everyone is with all the back and forth of time/places/ages. Maybe because the actress playing teen age Kate looks 16 not 18...frankly, I don’t think anyone could jump into this show at this point in the series and possibly understand everything that is going on.

I agree that it would be nearly impossible to comprehend how all the timelines fit together if this were the first season a viewer had watched.

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On 2/11/2020 at 10:09 PM, ams1001 said:

Well, Kate knows that Randall knows, so maybe she'll bring it up at the cabin.

Which would really upset Kevin, I would think.

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10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mr. EB's family has a cabin that his grandparents built back in ye olden days. Usually someone goes up in the spring to open the cabin for the summer. They usually close it up at some point after Labor Day. People have used the cabin in the winter, but that's usually only for the weekend. Mr. EB said that he and his friends sometimes drove up in the winter during high school and college to spend one or two days there. It's not that hard to open the cabin but sometimes if they were only going for one day, they didn't bother with fully opening the cabin (turning on the water and gas).

Although the question of her age has been addressed, I just wanted to add that I didn't start dressing differently once I turned 18. I brought a bunch of my high school clothes with me when I moved into the dorms (my parents were not about to buy me a new wardrobe just because I left for college).

I think that's doubly true for Kate because she still lives at home (some people try to remake themselves when they start college) so there was no transition to a new situation. On top of that, I think Kate dresses the same when she's 18 as when she was in high school is because the baby doll dresses and loose flannel shirts of the mid 90s grunge era hid her body shape.

It was mentioned a few times in earlier episodes. During the raw chicken dinner when Kevin, Kate, and Randall were in the kitchen, one of them (I think it was Kevin) brought up the age difference as something he didn't like. I remember that the first time we found out his age, I was like yeah, RED FLAG because five years is a big difference when the younger person is only 18.

Wow...you have a helluva memory. 

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55 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

When Toby said he just feels sad when he looks at Jack, I thought wow. I would understand that sentiment if they had been told their son had a serious disease and thus was terminally ill; being devoted to someone you know isn't going to survive is impossibly hard. However, feeling this way about his son because they won't be watching Star Wars together makes it sound like Toby's intention for becoming a parent was to have a little buddy who would mirror his interests and make Daddy's life more fun. That's not a child's job, disabled or not.

ITA - you shouldn’t have kids if you just want a mini-me/playmate/future caregiver when you’re old. Yes, there are kids who end up sharing interests with their parents but that can’t be your motivation or expectation for bringing another person into this world. 

59 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Your comment reminds me of a time when I was leaving an exercise class and a classmate turned to me in a confrontational tone, saying "You're getting fat! Why do you do that to yourself?" My first thought was, your comment says a helluva lot more about you than it will ever say about me. 

Wow, it never ceases to amaze me how rude people can be. But I agree - that comment was all about your classmate’s issues (cloaked as “concern” for you). 

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1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

To MBayGal about the swimsuit comment about Kate: Kate's swimsuit was essentially a swimdress (i.e. not revealing) and the pool scene was beautifully shot at night.  You reacted like Kate was wearing a string bikini on a bright summer day in front of a crowd of skinny people with the goal of making them uncomfortable. 

I’d also like to add that it’s not Kate’s job to dress with the express purpose of making other people comfortable. If she wants to wear a bikini in public, that’s her prerogative.

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21 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Wow, it never ceases to amaze me how rude people can be. But I agree - that comment was all about your classmate’s issues (cloaked as “concern” for you). 

It wasn't concern. She's just a bully; she's been rude to me in other scenarios in the class as well (not about my body) and sometimes tries to butt in to conversations I'm having with other classmates. So I rarely acknowledge her existence and I walk away if she's approaching anyone I'm friendly with,etc. I think she's a very entitled person, although I have wondered if she does not like a younger white woman being friends with/friendly with with her "sisters." 

ETA: I agree with you that it's not Kate's job to dress to make other people comfortable.  MBayGal's comment seemed to me to imply that Kate/overweight women in a scenario involving wearing bathing suits are deliberately dressing "inappropriately" to target people who feel like she does about seeing their bodies in swimwear.   That is both a really rude and absurd implication, and the truth is a woman may wear whatever bathing suit she wants in a scenario and doesn't owe anyone an apology. If another person is uncomfortable with the situation, they can leave (unless they are the owner of that pool/beach/resort.

Edited by Bringonthedrama
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3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Which would really upset Kevin, I would think.

I was thinking more about this; it could still be a reason Kevin (and Kate?) and Randall are on the outs by their birthday. Randall has known for weeks (months?) that something was going on with Rebecca, Randall went with her to get tested, Randall kept it from both of them (yes, Rebecca asked him to, but still...I'm torn on this in this scenario, because Rebecca still has her faculties mostly intact at this point, but it can be argued that Randall should not have agreed to keep it a secret and I can see the others being angry over that). Kate just found out, directly from Rebecca, right before going to see her brothers (and understandably would not want to tell Kevin on that three-way phone call), so she hasn't been keeping it from Kevin for weeks/months. If she brings it up at the cabin I can see it turning into an argument with the two of them against Randall.

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Being the last person in a tight family to know about a serious health issue is a very hard and hurtful thing.  Definitely a set-up for future problems between the Big 3.  

This was an excellent episode-writing, acting, directing, everything.  When you think about it, this show is exploring deep and complex personality and family-dynamic issues.  I can't think of any other TV show that does this, or has ever done this.  Well done, show.  Great episode.

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Somebody upthread (can't find it and am getting frustrated looking) suggested Kate might not connect going to the cabin with Mark possibly (probably) expecting sex.  She seems pretty naive about it.

Maybe he rapes or tries to rape her.  That oftentimes leads to obesity.

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When I saw Kate in a swimsuit I said out loud to Mr. Smarty "Oh, she looks beautiful!"

I have much more compassion for Toby than others. It's entirely understandable to be upset that he doesn't have the child he expected. Obviously that can't go on forever, but geez, give the guy some time to come around to it, or have him to a therapist for help. He wants to love his son. Give him a chance. I hated Rebecca essentially suggesting DTMF to Kate. A loving couple would discuss this, not judge, and help each other. Kate's just trying to force how she feels now on Toby. That's not fair.

Regarding the cabin, if it's not normally used in the winter, i.e., needs to be "opened," I assume that the only heat is the fireplace. Likely no running water, as pipes would freeze. That's how seasonal cabins work.

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In the current timeline, the specific diagnosis was only provided maybe a few days before Rebecca and Kate's trip with Jack. Maybe an entire week. Within that timeframe, Kevin was busy shooting a film and going to Sophie's funeral. And now going to the cabin. He is not available for Rebecca to tell him. 

If I were Kate, I would first talk to Randall and then maybe call/text Rebecca as to how to handle it. 

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I really enjoyed this episode.  I think Kate looked lovely in her swim gear.  The bonding of Rebecca and Kate was a welcome change of pace between the two.

I don't think Kate and Gregory will have a full-on romp in the hay, but I believe she can become emotionally close to him because of his acceptance and enthusiasm over Baby Jack.  Tobes needs to snap out of his doldrums about facing the future with his son, who happens to be blind.  I feel for and understand Toby suffers from depression.  He has to recognize that he should not allow himself to "get stuck" in a negative mindset over what is out of his control.

I want to see more scenes with Audio, not just hear about he'll be walked by Madison!

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I'm in the minority and find the Kevin character - foolish.  Randall was the one who noticed the forgetful behavior. (Sorry if I am wrong - but did Rebecca ask Randall not to say anything?) Rebecca told Kate herself. If this is the reason for Kevin getting mad at Randall (probably just years of bad blood. If he can't listen to reason - I will be irritated. That's just unnecessary drama. 

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Doesn't Rebecca still have to get an MRI? I was talking to some doctor's at work and if they did research, that might show more than what her symptoms do. It's a show but blood tests, thyroid etc should have been done also. I still expect them to see something when they do that test, somehow related to a past or slow growing tumor, something that makes the tests and accident in the past have some meaning.

I was thinking of how over the years the show has been on, Mark was never mentioned, even in passing. It was always Jack and Kate and a married guy. They have to accelerate Kate's weight a lot since they show her in her 20's as Chrissy being a waitress. I've seen weight gain in trauma but the loss of her dad as the excuse was always a bit much to absorb. We will see how they play it but I can't fathom no one loving teen Kate so the segue is hard.

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So Kate was going to fly from LA to Pittsburgh with an infant so she can spend, what, a day in the family cabin with her brothers?  And why do they even still have this cabin, with Randall up to his eyeballs in Philly and everybody else living in California?

Toddler Kate’s fairy tale ended up with her running into her mother’s arms, yet Kate was always a daddy’s girl.

Mark may be one of the shittiest characters in the history of television and nothing less than his slow, painful death would be a fitting end for that bastard.

Toby needs to grow up and accept his responsibilities like an adult or leave so Kate can move in with Gregory but I know that’s not going to happen. 

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1 hour ago, debraran said:

We will see how they play it but I can't fathom no one loving teen Kate so the segue is hard.

i just can't buy that no one ever showed an interest in Kate in high school. She's adorable, has great taste in music, and seems reasonably socially adept. And when your twin is the most popular kid in school, and has a super-close sibling relationship with you, you're pretty likely to be popular by proximity.

I can understand her feeling like she's in Kevin's shadow, and having insecurities about her attractiveness (so many beautiful people do, especially when they're teenagers). But the whole "no boy has ever wanted me" thing is very hard to believe.

I think the writers are constrained by the weights of the actresses playing Kate. They wanted Adult Kate's journey to involve weight loss, but they can't go in that direction until/if Chrissy loses weight. And Teen Kate looking the way she does makes it much harder to believe that she isn't getting a good deal of attention from boys.

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Sometimes, when you grow up with the same kids from elementary to high school, they still see you as a first grader. Maybe that was the case for Kate? I wonder what it’d be like for Kate if she went to school with Randall. 

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The scene with the swimming pool made me cry because I have experienced it in the exact same way. Me and my mom used to go to some trips with groups. Some 13 years ago we were in this fancy hotel with a swimming pool. I love swimming but I am overweight so I was shy to go to the pool and I was saying to my mom "this hotel is expensive, I bet everyone in the pool will have the perfect bodies" and she said "you know what? this is how you are. Fat? Sure. Who cares. Just do what you like!". So I went to the pool and I had a great time. Not only this, but this incident made me not be shy anymore about the pool and for the last 11 or 12 years I use to go to the local swimming pool whenever I like and I don't give a damn what people think of me or my body. It was freeing and I hope all overweight women take this and learn something from it.

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10 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Regarding the cabin, if it's not normally used in the winter, i.e., needs to be "opened," I assume that the only heat is the fireplace. Likely no running water, as pipes would freeze. That's how seasonal cabins work.

Mr. EB's family has a cabin that is normally only used in the summer. When they close the cabin at the end of the summer season, they turn off the power, the gas, and the water. They also board up all the windows because if it starts snowing like crazy, the snow can reach up to the first floor roof.

But you can open the cabin and use it during the winter. The process is the same as opening it in the spring. You take the boards off the windows and turn on the power, the gas, and the water. You don't have to turn everything on though. There have been times when Mr. EB went up for a day and half so he didn't turn everything on (sometimes all he turned on was the electricity but once he didn't even bother with that - he just built a fire in the fireplace for light and heat). Because they turn the water off at the end of the summer, the pipes don't freeze. You can turn the water on in the winter but you just have to make sure that you turn it off and drain everything before you leave. If there's water left in the pipes, the water inside the pipes can expand and then burst the pipes.

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On 2/12/2020 at 2:46 PM, hula-la said:

Can we stop with the concern trolling about weight, and the "medicalising" of abuse (he's not abusive, he's got bipolar disorder!).

We have only seen Mark in one full episode.  I don't think anything can be armchair diagnosed about anyone after one episode.   We haven't seen how he acts around his family or his friends.  Plus it would seem to me that it would be important to have a conversation with the individual before drawing any conclusions.  Obviously we can't do that.

Abuse is abuse whether it is intentional or not.  There can be a mental health reason for it, but it is still abuse.

 

Edited by icemiser69
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On 2/12/2020 at 3:44 PM, Crs97 said:

They both need therapy desperately.

They have needed therapy long before they had the baby. 

On 2/12/2020 at 4:05 PM, slasherboy said:

Oh, Kate sees it.  She just doesn't want to acknowledge or believe it.  But she sees it.  She's not stupid.

People with low or no self-esteem who feel they don't have options will put up with a lot more than people who have multiple options.

Rebecca has no clue what Kate is going through.  Rebecca has had people lining up to date her. Kate only has Mark and she won't let him go, because she thinks that Mark is the only one that will go out with her.  

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