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S02.E13 In the Graveyard

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The doctors stop at nothing to help their patients, following a shocking realization that prompts a change in the hospital. Reynolds must make an important decision in his career.

Original airdate 2/11/20

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Um...I don't think you can just walk into a nursing home and take the patients...

Also, why is Iggy's kid's piano keyboard so high? He's gonna kill his wrists like that.

Edited by ams1001
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I can't stand Lauren at all. It seems like every show I watch there is these rogue  know it all's that think they can do what ever the hell they want.

Edited by mommalib
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2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Um...I don't think you can just walk into a nursing home and take the patients...

I mean you shouldn't be able to but depending on the facility you probably could.  My mom was in a skilled nursing facility but the other half was permanent residents and people were always being checked in and out of things.  They had ambulances coming and going to transfer patients.  There was a whole protocol but seriously I'm positive you could tell nurse A that you'd okayed it with nurse b and by long gone by the time the dust settled.   

 

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I found the conflict around the DNR compelling because I've been on both sides of the argument. However, a legally binding DNR was in place which means Bloom had no business resuscitating the patient. Except for Sharpe's demotion, New Amsterdam has dealt very little with the consequences of constantly and openly 'breaking the rules', including criminal prosecution, civil lawsuits, and massive fines and penalties. Hospitals and doctors are rigid for a reason. Even when a patient dies, their families could still sue in certain circumstances, but moving on...

Floyd has done questionable things too, so Bloom was wrong to say he never bends the rules. In trying to justify her clearly erroneous actions she hurt someone who was there for her when she really needed it. Poor Floyd. Not to mention how losing a surgeon like Floyd would be such a blow to the hospital, especially when he's a trusted colleague and proven professional. I'm interested to see where this goes and if Floyd really does leave NA.

ETA: Insulting someone by pointing out he follows protocol and mostly plays by the rules is quite childish and immature, especially when the conversation is between two doctors who are tasked with caring for patients. It was very strange, to the say the least.

Sharpe was wearing an almost identical outfit in S1 when she dealt with Tiana's questions about death. 

Edited by Mia Nina
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I was really bothered by Kapoor badgering that poor woman to have a "living wake" (because he didn't get to do one for his wife?). I ended up turning it off right at the beginning of the wake scene and getting ready for bed. May or may not watch the rest later but I'm assuming by the end of it she was grateful for his pushing and glad she let him do it (not that he gave her much choice). Please correct me if the show is not so predictable as I presume. (If so, I will be mildly shocked.) (Side note: assuming I'm remembering some dialogue correctly, she seemed awfully mobile for someone who expects to have only days to live...)

I continually wonder how these high-level doctors have time to devote their whole day to one patient (especially one who was just brought there because the director didn't like where they were at and who does not need the immediate attention of the head of neurology (or whatever)).

I'm also assuming DNR woman got to see her grandbaby before peacefully passing on..?

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14 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I was really bothered by Kapoor badgering that poor woman to have a "living wake" (because he didn't get to do one for his wife?). I ended up turning it off right at the beginning of the wake scene and getting ready for bed. May or may not watch the rest later but I'm assuming by the end of it she was grateful for his pushing and glad she let him do it (not that he gave her much choice). Please correct me if the show is not so predictable as I presume. (If so, I will be mildly shocked.) (Side note: assuming I'm remembering some dialogue correctly, she seemed awfully mobile for someone who expects to have only days to live...)

I'm also assuming DNR woman got to see her grandbaby before peacefully passing on..?

Spoiler

 

Well, she was grateful for his pushing, but not for the reason you might think.  Her sister came in with Beverly, the patient's beloved dog, and *somehow* (it was not explained very well), Vijay figured out that the patient was not dying.  Apparently both she and Beverly were suffering from an infectious disease (I'm blanking on the name) that could be cured with a course of antibiotics.  The patient's doctors assumed that her symptoms were caused by her scleroderma, and that she was in organ failure.  ::insert shrug emoji here::

Regarding the DNR woman, yes she got to see her grandbaby, but we don't (yet?) know her final outcome.  She was still alive at the end of the episode.

 

I want to know how Max managed to arrange not-so-insignificant renovations to "the Graveyard," including that big fancy sign with the reluctant donor's name on it...all in one day.  The schmooze session was over and presumably the reluctant donor was on his way out of the hospital when the Board lady came to read Max the riot act, and yet by the time Max got back from intercepting him, the sign was up, the media gathered, and the Big Check was prepared for symbolic signature.  I mean, really.  I suspend a lot of disbelief for this show, because I love the characters, but that was ridiculous.

Edited by Lovecat
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10 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I wish I had someone to make me Indian food everyday. 😛

I liked Max’s new “assistant.” I hope they keep her around for awhile.

I was waiting for the woman to tell Kapoor that she hated Indian food.

This show is a Fairy Tale. 

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22 minutes ago, Lovecat said:

I want to know how Max managed to arrange not-so-insignificant renovations to "the Graveyard," including that big fancy sign with the reluctant donor's name on it...all in one day.  The schmooze session was over and presumably the reluctant donor was on his way out of the hospital when the Board lady came to read Max the riot act, and yet by the time Max got back from intercepting him, the sign was up, the media gathered, and the Big Check was prepared for symbolic signature.  I mean, really.  I suspend a lot of disbelief for this show, because I love the characters, but that was ridiculous.

Chalk it up to the "magic of television" and "reality be damned."

BTW: this is one of my biggest pet peeves. Not only with this show, but all that I'm invested in.

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I know that these episodes are written and filmed way in advance, but it almost seemed like they were trying to ride on the coattails of The Good Place finale.

Presumably Floyd will write up a report on Bloom's actions before he departs.  That violation of medical ethics was so blatant as to be jaw dropping.  Except, of course, Max will step in and smooth things over.

I went back and (admittedly) sped through the show to find out why the big gun donor was so upset about the press conference.  Was it about the palliative care unit, or just that his name was thrown out there?  Either way, Max, as usual, has probably cut his corporate nose off to spite his face.  That donor is going to talk at his private clubs and such, and word will get out to other donors about the hospital's conduct.  That giant sucking sound?  It's all the money going somewhere else.

This hospital has gone completely off the rails.  If I lived in NYC, I would get a medic alert bracelet that says "I will sue any ambulance company that takes me to New Amsterdam Hospital."

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1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

I know that these episodes are written and filmed way in advance, but it almost seemed like they were trying to ride on the coattails of The Good Place finale.

Presumably Floyd will write up a report on Bloom's actions before he departs.  That violation of medical ethics was so blatant as to be jaw dropping.  Except, of course, Max will step in and smooth things over.

I went back and (admittedly) sped through the show to find out why the big gun donor was so upset about the press conference.  Was it about the palliative care unit, or just that his name was thrown out there?  Either way, Max, as usual, has probably cut his corporate nose off to spite his face.  That donor is going to talk at his private clubs and such, and word will get out to other donors about the hospital's conduct.  That giant sucking sound?  It's all the money going somewhere else.

This hospital has gone completely off the rails.  If I lived in NYC, I would get a medic alert bracelet that says "I will sue any ambulance company that takes me to New Amsterdam Hospital."

The big donor never actually donates.  He just lets the hospital woo him but never gives a check.  By doing the press conference, they locked him into a donation, he can’t wiggle out with out looking like a tool. 

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Why why why am I still watching this? Do they want us to believe this hospital doesn’t have a hospice floor, “the graveyard”, seriously?  It’s worse than even Chicago Med and that’s saying a lot. Kapur is just straight up creepy, the medical transgressions are horrifying, Iggy is unwatchable and every ep Max does something so ridiculous that I can’t believe these writers are serious. Is this some kind of psychological experiment to see how long we will all keep watching? 

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53 minutes ago, sadie said:

Do they want us to believe this hospital doesn’t have a hospice floor, “the graveyard”, seriously? 

I didn't know hospitals had hospice floors.  Are they nice, like the new $5M palliative care wing, or do they resemble a warehouse of dying people and beds?

I'm glad this episode focused on this.  We need to talk about palliative and hospice care more in our society.  Human beings deserve care and respect, not just a cold bed in a crowded hallway until they die.

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2 hours ago, sadie said:

Do they want us to believe this hospital doesn’t have a hospice floor

I've never worked in a hospital that does.

I'm just a sucker for a good hospice story.  I actually liked this one a lot.

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There were issues and some outrageous behavior, but I did like this episode. I have a family member on hospice.  

There seems to be an epidemic of doctors violating DNR orders. Is that happening iRL?

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3 hours ago, izabella said:

I didn't know hospitals had hospice floors.  Are they nice, like the new $5M palliative care wing, or do they resemble a warehouse of dying people and beds?

We had a family friend who went on hospice (wow, just realized she died 10 years ago next week...) and she stayed in the same hospital room she had been in (it was a private room and there was a fold-out chair/bed thing so her husband or one of her sons could stay each night). They just changed the care they gave her. They considered setting her up for home hospice but in the end decided it was better not to move her. As hospital rooms go, it was pretty nice.

(And my aunt passed away a couple years ago and she had home hospice for the last couple weeks, with a visiting nurse (24-hour/day nurse for the last few days, when she could no longer get up and then was unconscious).)

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I will say ahead of time that I know the show is not meant to be a documentary, but come on.  They trick a donor into signing a novelty check in front of the press and all their financial issues involving the new floor (that apparently was up and running in about ten minutes) are magically solved?

And I was honestly furious at Bloom.  It's such a violation of a patient's dignity to overrule their wishes on a DNR.  That she not only didn't care, but seemed to think her behavior would be welcomed, was just sad.     

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Okay, let me breathe in deeply and try to express my opinion about this episode without yelling.... NOPE, CANT! PALLIATIVE CARE IS NOT HOSPICE CARE, MAX!!!!! PALLIATIVE CARE HELPS PEOPLE LIVING WITH A SERIOUS ILLNESS TO HELP MANAGE SYMPTOMS. FOR HOSPICE, YOU USUALLY HAVE TO HAVE 6 MONTHS OR LESS PROGNOSIS!

After that, I started to type up my thoughts, because this show can be... something.

Helen sure was generalizing leukemia when going "late stage leukemia comes with a host of issues." There are many types of leukemia, and not all leukemias are staged. What kind of leukemia did he have? ALL? CML? CLL? AML? Some rare subtype of those?

At least none of them tried to magically cure the hospice patients Max dragged in? welp. Why wasn't the illness presenting in the dog after she gave her to her sister?

Iggy poking at Sharpe for her giving a patient heroin made me laugh. They referenced a previous episode!

Kapoor was such an ass with his patient.

Bloom violating the DNR, as on all other medical shows, is just "WTF????" - and I don't think Iggy would have done it, like she said.

So two doctors did illegal things in this episode - Sharpe gave a patient magic mushrooms and Bloom violated a DNR.

Can Bloom get demoted now, and the ER head from the start of the season come back? She was great!

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6 hours ago, bros402 said:

Bloom violating the DNR, as on all other medical shows, is just "WTF????"

This seems to be the norm on all medical shows. I guess show-runners opt for drama vs. reality, although this has become very tired very quickly.

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2 hours ago, preeya said:

This seems to be the norm on all medical shows. I guess show-runners opt for drama vs. reality, although this has become very tired very quickly.

Of course it is.  This isn't new; showrunners do it across the board for any show about any profession.  Why? Because otherwise it'd be boring.  There's a reason why supposed candid reality shows still steer their content in certain ways; it's to inject a little drama and tension into what would otherwise be a bore-fest. IMO it's still all a bore-fest but YMMV. 

I just look to be entertained for a couple of hours a night, to disengage from real world crap for a bit, and just go with the flow. To each their own...

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4 hours ago, rove4 said:

Of course it is.  This isn't new; show runners do it across the board for any show about any profession.  Why? Because otherwise it'd be boring.  There's a reason why supposed candid reality shows still steer their content in certain ways; it's to inject a little drama and tension into what would otherwise be a bore-fest. IMO it's still all a bore-fest but YMMV. 

I just look to be entertained for a couple of hours a night, to disengage from real world crap for a bit, and just go with the flow. To each their own...

ITA, but when the alleged drama becomes so predictable that all the viewers know what's coming, that's boring too.

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This hospital has gone completely off the rails.  If I lived in NYC, I would get a medic alert bracelet that says "I will sue any ambulance company that takes me to New Amsterdam Hospital."

What are you, nuts? You get admitted there, you get Max's attention. Next thing you know, you get free treatment, maybe some cosmetic surgery thrown in, maybe a nice room where you can get massages and gourmet food, and you can probably end up with a nice apartment, too. All is possible at New Amsterdam.

I liked Max's new assistant. Brantley: I like her. Assistant (who earlier had declared, "Glad to be aboard": I'm temporary. Brantley: We'll see about that (or something like that). Hopefully, Brantley can pull off a miracle of her own. 

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23 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

There seems to be an epidemic of doctors violating DNR orders. Is that happening iRL?

I think it depends. Younger patients with DNRs create more conflict, especially when they're in car accidents, for example, and are not actually terminally ill. In those cases a doctor's instinct (not to mention the family's outcry) is to provide every life saving measure available to them. Of course, if a patient verbally expresses the desire to overrule their own DNR doctors must discard it and proceed accordingly. In New Amsterdam's case, the patient was already unconscious and couldn't be asked which is the purpose of the document, to instruct the physician on the patients wishes.

My father never signed a DNR but when he fell ill the doctor gave the order herself, which she calmly explained to me. He passed that same day. 

A few months ago I was called to draft a DNR for a client. She's an older lady, very sick, but of sound mind. I talked to her doctor who simply told me that they needed the legally binding DNR in place in order to respect her wishes. While the hospital actually had a document drafted and ready to go for her to sign, it would only cover her temporary stay and would be useless once she was discharged. 

I hesitated because, like Dr. Bloom, all I could think about was her children, grandchildren, etc. However, she was very clear that those were her wishes. I talked to her about possible emergency scenarios and she consistently decided to go with the DNR. In her case her doctors were willing to acquiesce once the papers were signed.

In Bloom's case the patient's expressed desire to meet her grandchild could have probably been interpreted as an implied repeal. While not exactly an expressed overruling, an argument could be made on Bloom's behalf.

Her treatment of Reynolds was inexcusable, however. I know the show needed to give Reynolds a reason to accept the offer, but boy, after what Max did to him last year, it was pretty cruel that Bloom of all people told him he didn't belong. Heartbreaking.

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6 hours ago, mojito said:

What are you, nuts? You get admitted there, you get Max's attention. Next thing you know, you get free treatment, maybe some cosmetic surgery thrown in, maybe a nice room where you can get massages and gourmet food, and you can probably end up with a nice apartment, too. All is possible at New Amsterdam.

I liked Max's new assistant. Brantley: I like her. Assistant (who earlier had declared, "Glad to be aboard": I'm temporary. Brantley: We'll see about that (or something like that). Hopefully, Brantley can pull off a miracle of her own. 

True, and if your case is interesting enough, you will have every department head, even from unrelated departments, on your case! Well, and a famous doctor that goes on talk shows (Sharpe).

Max's new assistant was great. Maybe she can have an identical twin who also worked for Yonkers city council?

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10 hours ago, Mia Nina said:

I think it depends. Younger patients with DNRs create more conflict, especially when they're in car accidents, for example, and are not actually terminally ill. In those cases a doctor's instinct (not to mention the family's outcry) is to provide every life saving measure available to them. Of course, if a patient verbally expresses the desire to overrule their own DNR doctors must discard it and proceed accordingly. In New Amsterdam's case, the patient was already unconscious and couldn't be asked which is the purpose of the document, to instruct the physician on the patients wishes.

My father never signed a DNR but when he fell ill the doctor gave the order herself, which she calmly explained to me. He passed that same day. 

A few months ago I was called to draft a DNR for a client. She's an older lady, very sick, but of sound mind. I talked to her doctor who simply told me that they needed the legally binding DNR in place in order to respect her wishes. While the hospital actually had a document drafted and ready to go for her to sign, it would only cover her temporary stay and would be useless once she was discharged. 

I hesitated because, like Dr. Bloom, all I could think about was her children, grandchildren, etc. However, she was very clear that those were her wishes. I talked to her about possible emergency scenarios and she consistently decided to go with the DNR. In her case her doctors were willing to acquiesce once the papers were signed.

In Bloom's case the patient's expressed desire to meet her grandchild could have probably been interpreted as an implied repeal. While not exactly an expressed overruling, an argument could be made on Bloom's behalf.

Her treatment of Reynolds was inexcusable, however. I know the show needed to give Reynolds a reason to accept the offer, but boy, after what Max did to him last year, it was pretty cruel that Bloom of all people told him he didn't belong. Heartbreaking.

What Reynolds said to her was correct. CPR can cause a frail senior a lot of fractures and pain. Bloom violating the DNR could have robbed her of a painless passing.   Bloom seemed unhinged to me.  I suppose that Reynolds might have been hurt, but, really, when you're the only ethical sane person, I'd not feel to bad about leaving.  She could try to project her messed up self all she wants.  Often people who have their own issues blame it on others.  A professional attacking another professional for being ethical is almost funny.  

I agree about how odd it was that they were able to get the personalized wall plaque so quickly.  Hmmm.....that takes at least weeks to do. lol  While it was successful in getting the donation, I'm just not impressed with Max's job performance. He has great intentions and is creative, but, it's like he doesn't really think things through, most of the time.  I think that the writers must feel they are pretty clever when they come up with this stuff, but, they don't realize that the viewers have brains and see through a lot of their schemes.  They throw practicality, costs, time restraint, and real life factors to the wind, hoping that no one with notice.  It's sort of funny.  I think that viewers are more sophisticated these days and we don't just buy something because it's in a script. 

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Max's new assistant, who I hope sticks around for as long as possible, was the crazy, blind grandmother of a serial killer over on Prodigal Son a few episodes back.  I wanted the main character to hit her with a 2x4 in that one.  🤣

Edited by rove4
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3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Bloom seemed unhinged to me.

True. It was unsettling. Again, I get the show needed to push the Reynolds-is-leaving plot, but Bloom's actions and demeanor were disturbing.

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I am getting fed up with this show. It’s never been realistic so it isn’t that. First season seemed to be a lot of Mad getting creative to solve problems and caring more about patients than bureaucracy. Cool. Now it’s more about him constantly pulling resources away from most patients for the purpose of pursuing him vanity project of the week. Also, courting donors is part of his job even if he doesn’t like that part.

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My main complaint about this show has always been that they have the right diagnosis but the very wrong treatment - pun intended.

The situations are real, the problems are real. The solutions are absurd.

But I keep watching, come here are vent, complain, hardly ever I have a "wow, great!" moment. But this episode was so boring and the already mentioned overuse of DNR fake conflicts, I don't even remember anything else

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On February 13, 2020 at 12:19 PM, rove4 said:

 

 

 

 

 

On February 13, 2020 at 12:19 PM, rove4 said:

I just look to be entertained for a couple of hours a night, to disengage from real world crap for a bit, and just go with the flow. To each their own...

I hated this episode.  Like Rove4, I watch to be entertained.     There was nothing entertaining about this "graveyard" episode.

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28 minutes ago, AnnA said:

 

 

 

 

I hated this episode.  Like Rove4, I watch to be entertained.     There was nothing entertaining about this "graveyard" episode.

I stopped watching and deleted it from my DVR half the way through the episode.

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Wow! I just saw the actor who played the terminal math professor on stage at the Signature Theater playing a very complex character in "Cambodian Rock Band".  The man has serious mad acting skills.

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30 minutes ago, jabRI said:

Wow! I just saw the actor who played the terminal math professor on stage at the Signature Theater playing a very complex character in "Cambodian Rock Band".  The man has serious mad acting skills.

He's played the Chinese Foreign Minister for years on Madame Secretary.  He's great.

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20 hours ago, deaja said:

I am getting fed up with this show. It’s never been realistic so it isn’t that. First season seemed to be a lot of Mad getting creative to solve problems and caring more about patients than bureaucracy. Cool. Now it’s more about him constantly pulling resources away from most patients for the purpose of pursuing him vanity project of the week. Also, courting donors is part of his job even if he doesn’t like that part.

You think the Evil Board Lady would try to accommodate Max's....unusual administration style and bill it to the donors as "spend a few hours on the front lines with our medical director, see who your donations will benefit directly!" and just have an episode of Max with donors and patients.

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Do huge, urban hospitals typically have entire unused floors, just waiting for someone to claim them? Like, I could understand if maybe there was something wrong there, something major that needed fixing or renovating, and it was easier to simply move the patients elsewhere and close off the floor than do it. But that graveyard floor seemed in really good condition. And we are always hearing about how crowded New Amsterdam is. Wouldn't someone have snapped up that space long ago?

Iggy shouldn't have referred to himself as "Driggy," because I will be calling him that for as long as this show continues to air.

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On 2/12/2020 at 9:19 PM, starri said:

I've never worked in a hospital that does.

I'm just a sucker for a good hospice story.  I actually liked this one a lot.

Most large hospitals have some sort of Palliative Care Unit where patients who are dying are given supportive care.  Hospice units are not as common, but the Palliative Care Units are used for patients in hospice either at home or at other facilities who have problems requiring inpatient care.  The most common reason for a hospice patient to be admitted to a Palliative Care unit would be for pain management.  Occasionally, a hospice patient might undergo a medical procedure like draining fluid off the lungs or such which would also require a hospital setting.

This, of course, begs the question as to why Max had apparently never heard of such a thing and thought he was being so innovative in setting it up.  It also makes one wonder who exactly is going to be running the unit once he and his completely unqualified colleagues go back to their regular jobs.  Max is unaware that there is an actual medical specialty in Palliative Care where physicians are actually trained to provide these services; but that would require actually paying a salary to a doctor, not to mention the nurses, aides, etc who are the lifeblood of any hospital unit.  I don't think the yoga instructor or masseuse are going to be nearly as useful as a qualified RN with a staff of LPN's and aides to provide the day to day care.

It also was beyond belief that a hospital unit that had been closed down for years could be cleaned and repaired, painted and furnished in just a couple of hours, let alone get approved by the state medical board for patient occupancy.  Not even going to touch on the nursing, clerical, housekeeping and food services staff that would have to magically appear.

I have no idea what all the bullsh** was in the beginning of the episode about hospitals transferring dying patients back and forth to avoid having them die on site.  Amongst other things, patient dumping is against the law.  Then, once a patient is terminal and has agreed to only supportive care, there is no reason for them to even be in the hospital.  Every single patient that we saw should've been in home hospice or at a hospice facility if home care wasn't feasible.  Sort of like all the teenage psych patients who seem to be living in the hospital.  It appeared that the original patient was brought to New Amsterdam by her daughter who wanted a second opinion as to whether or not there was other treatment available which is not the same as patient dumping.  It would also mean that the mom wasn't DNR, of course, but no point letting common sense get in the way of the story.

 

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1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

It also makes one wonder who exactly is going to be running the unit once he and his completely unqualified colleagues go back to their regular jobs. 

Maybe he will assign Dr. Bloom to the unit, and she will be consigned to walking the hall with her cane, making only token appearances in the 'regular' hospital.

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Agreed with most on the unreality and disregard for logistics concerning the main plot, but I had to laugh when Max went blazing into the meeting to complain about New Amsterdam getting patients dumped on them, only to find that NA dumps patients too. If Board Woman dropped that little tidbit on purpose because she wanted him out of her hair for five minutes, it was a genius move on her part, and it would add needed depth to her character if she's capable of deliberately distracting him like that.

  

On 2/12/2020 at 11:07 AM, mojito said:

I was waiting for the woman to tell Kapoor that she hated Indian food.

I don't know why we got another plotline of her regretting that she agreed to move in as he tapdances merrily over her boundaries and wishes. It came off precisely the way it did in the previous episode, and were I her, I'd be extremely wary that the lesson doesn't seem to be sticking.

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