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Episode 11:

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"Le'ing With the Devil"

Mike surprises Paulina with a trip to Hawaii for her birthday and invites the whole crew to come along; after arriving in the Aloha State, tensions among the Shahs come to a boil, making for one unforgettable luau.

Airs April 17, 2020.

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6 hours ago, OnceSane said:

Episode 11:

Airs April 17, 2020.

Reza eating dinner over the kitchen counter and every single cat in that house also on the counters.  Gross.

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I’m surprised Nema didn’t pick up Farsi living in Iran as a child.  I can’t believe the letter from Nema’s mom didn’t even address why his parents split up the siblings.  It’s easy for Mike to urge forgiveness in this situation when he has no experience with it.  The therapist was a knucklehead too.  Nema’s smarter than his own therapist.  I hate when that happens.

Destiney doesn’t trust MJ because Destiney doesn’t think MJ sees that she’s hurt?  That sounds nonsensical.  She was really grasping at straws.

I love MJ sitting everyone down and cutting through the bullshit.  This is why she is Queen.  

Good job of coming clean after the fact about a tiny part of the texting scandal, Adam!  Not too little too late at all.  He is so passive-aggressive.  I can’t stand him. What does he have against MJ?  I understand what he’d have against Tommy, but what the hell did MJ do to Adam?

That girls’ night out reminded me why this show was moved to Friday night.  

GG’s braids were the best part of the show.  

I cannot believe Reza’s gall.  He went from the wobbly voice last week to making demands about whose company MJ keeps this week.  OMG, MJ wanted Reza in the delivery room?  She really holds a candle for him.  This is getting strange.  

 

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Nema is the biggest sissy bitch on tv .... dude cry’s about everything with those dominoes teeth ... Props to the heels on MJ’s pumps how they held up under all off that MJ Girth is amazing ... I’m also curious does mike wear a sports bra to keep his man tits in place.... Adam is shady nympho weasel ... he’s a shit disturber but Reza can’t see it because Reza is too busy being a sociopath 

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I used to like Nema, but I have definitely lost respect for him by watching the way he carried on this week.  Most people have baggage from their childhood and I applaud him for seeking counseling, but seriously?  He witnessed an armed soldier while living in Iran for 9 months.  What about the kids that grew up there (and other similar places) and witnessed that and worse every day of their lives?  Or kids who grew up with no parents?  He has two parents that love him, so give them a break and open your heart, Nema.

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No "reality tv show" is worth leaving your baby so soon, just to have televised fights with your "best friend of 30 years."  It's not even good entertainment for us viewers, because we don't get what the bleep this fight is all about.  I understand why MJ would be upset that Reza didn't visit her at the hospital, but I'm confused about the talking behind Reza's back and why that would upset him so much- isn't that something that everyone does on that show, especially Reza?

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Firstly this forum would be SO much easier broekn into episodes like other shows..how come its not I wonder? 

This season is starting to feel like puppygate on the last RHOBH. It's starting to drag on and on and because we already know that MJ and Reza have become enemies this faux reconciliation every week is boring to watch.

Haven't got much to say story wise - nothing amazing came out really.

The previews made the show sound like there was going to be just bombshell after bombshell happening but naked Jenga and the fall out from that seems to be the only thing being talked about.

I have to say I have never thought Adam and Reza were a deeply matched couple - he's wimpy and Reza just rides over the top of him all the time.

Nema's teeth continue to distract me. Once you really look at them it's hard not to keep staring. It's like a car crash.

GG? WOW what a change - very proud of her and it feels genuine. Between her reforming and James on Vanderpump going sober and Covid19 I have no idea WTF is happening in 2020!

Mj keeps wearing stuff that 8 sizes too small. I might start a gofundme to get her a stylist.

On the other hand if she HAS a stylist (just can not believe anyone would be THAT bad at their job) I might start a gofundme to shoot that stylist.

My favourite outfit for this week would be this gorgeous silver and lime outfit - why didn't someone tell me MJ was an olympic speed skater in her spare time! Who knew 😲

MJ1.JPG

And that hessian organic growers market bag really sets off the spandex beautifully. 

This outfit was the highlight of the episode for me -= tells you everything you need to know about this week.

Edited by F8.
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Reza and Adam should call it quits.  Reza and MJ need to stay away from each other . Neither one is going to listen to what the other is saying or wanting. Whats the point? This show used to be fun but its not anymore. #RIPShahs

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20 hours ago, OnceSane said:

"Le'ing With the Devil"

Mike surprises Paulina with a trip to Hawaii for her birthday and invites the whole crew to come along; after arriving in the Aloha State, tensions among the Shahs come to a boil, making for one unforgettable luau.

  • MJ and Destiney meet to bury the hatchet but are joined by Ali, who looks creepy and gross. I didn't know International Male is still in business! Naturally, this means we get to rehash the "Naked Jenga" thing. Again. I had to laugh at the irony of Ali complimenting MJ's hideous outfit.
  • Reza and Adam talk about the "Naked Jenga" thing, again, then about not going to Hawai'i. Wait, didn't they go earlier and cut the trip short? Adam passive-aggressively forbids MJ from entering Reza's their home, but apparently doesn't care about her husband, who broke some lawn furniture and scared him earlier this season.
  • Nemo and Mike meet to get unnecessary Botox, where Nemo first talks about The Letter.
  • The girls have a night out at a cool-looking rooftop bar. Destiney arrives in a ridiculous costume, managing to look both "extra" and "basic". I am so tired of her shit. Not much happened, but GG was wearing this hideous purple lipstick. It's so weird right now seeing people congregating right now!
  • Nemo sees his tele-psychologist about The Letter. I really don't know his backstory, but what he read from The Letter, it didn't seem to make sense. His parents divorced and his sister lived with his father while his mother sent him to live in Iran with his grandparents? This couldn't have taken place after the revolution, right?
  • Everyone gets ready for the Hawai'i trip. Apparently, Reza doesn't pack light for trips. Just how many shoes does this bozo have? Why the hell does MJ have an assistant and why is she leaving her newborn baby?
  • Gah! I did NOT need to see "Satan Andy" at home in his bathrobe!
  • Everyone arrives at the airport for the trip. I realized that Adam was not present. Hmmm... Those leis were embarrassing.
  • They barrive at the "million dollar property" at which they are staying, no doubt paid for by Bravo. Why the hell is MJ wearing an eight-sizes-too-small scuba suit? Holy shit! That "Hawai'ian greeting" is a great way to catch the Wuhan Flu! Was that an authentic Hawai'ian thing, or something made up for the rubes tourists? I've seen a lot of trips to Hawai'i on TV, but this is the first time I ever saw someone do that before.
  • Later, they're hanging out and I am finding myself yelling at Reza for bringing up the "Naked Jenga" thing again. Wait, how'd he know about MJ and Destiney meeting earlier? Oh, Destiney ratted out MJ to him offscreen. Why am I not surprised? Thanks, Destiney! BTW, I am getting sick and tired of them using the phrase "sexual harassment" to describe what Adam did.
  • MJ and Reza eventually reconcile again, but I am sure this will not be the last time.
Edited by Ubiquitous
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9 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

I understand why MJ would be upset that Reza didn't visit her at the hospital, but I'm confused about the talking behind Reza's back and why that would upset him so much- isn't that something that everyone does on that show, especially Reza?

That, and tattling on the person you were doing it with.

 

4 hours ago, F8. said:

Mj keeps wearing stuff that 8 sizes too small. I might start a gofundme to get her a stylist.

On the other hand if she HAS a stylist (just can not believe anyone would be THAT bad at their job) I might start a gofundme to shoot that stylist.

My favourite outfit for this week would be this gorgeous silver and lime outfit - why didn't someone TELL me MJ was an olympic speed skater in her spare time..

MJ1.JPG

And that hessian organic growers market bag really sets off the spandex beautifully.

This outfit was the highlight of the episode for me -= tells you everything you need to know about this week.

OMFG! I don't know why MJ continues to dress so poorly!

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MJ was leaving her newborn baby for camera time and BRAVO trips because she needs the money. I doubt she's doing real estate anymore. 

11 hours ago, FrankieTankie said:

Nema is the biggest sissy bitch on tv .... dude cry’s about everything

Reza and Mike also cry all the time. It's ridiculous. 

Since when is Mike the voice of reason with all his friends? Giving out his sage advice when he has never been able to get his own life together and does nothing but embarrass his own family over and over again? Sit down and STFU Mike! Oh, and Mike and Nema gettign botox together. Are you Fukkin kidding me? They were fighting like crazy just a couple of episodes ago, ready to pounce each other across the dinner table and kick the crap out of each other. Aside from all that, I don't know a single 29 year old male that gets botox, then again I don't live in vapid lala land LA.  No wonder this show is in the shitter. It's all sooooo fake.

Edited by bichonblitz
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I hate watch this show, there I admitted it. I agree @F8. that MJ and her style choices make me want to stick a fork in my eye. The rats nest wig or whatever is doing her no favors along with her attire. I am embarrassed for her ( not really ) 

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Why does that hideous clown destiney always say .... voy voy voy voy voy ... can’t stand her ugly ass .... she looks like she’s 58 years old but trying to look 22 someone needs to let her know it isn’t working 

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I just watched this episode last night but have already forgotten most of it because this show alternates between ennervating and boring me.

Oh, Paulina. The only reason why you're getting a trip to Hawaii for your birthday is because Bravo has arranged and paid for the entire thing. And of course it won't be just you and Mike because the annual Bravo cast trip requires that the rest of the cast be there. Just shut up be thankful for the comped vacation.

Nema's anguish over his past seems like a ploy for screen time for me. The story of how he and his sister were separated in childhood and forced to live on opposite sides of the country with different parents made for an interesting and memorable introduction. I suspect he tackled his feelings in his twenties, and is only drudging this letter (which was also likely crafted at his behest) to have his own storyline on the show. 

Reza and Adam can barely stand looking at one another.  It's clear there is no love or intimacy in their marriage and they're only holding on for the sake of public image. I also think there may be some merit into the rumor that Reza has hidden assets under Adam's name and now Adam has gained an advantage in the power dynamic.

Adam really disgusts me. The mess he's in is entirely his doing, but he never wants to talk to MJ and sets a hard rule that she is to never set foot in his house again? How exactly is Reza supposed to repair his fractured relationship with MJ? Part of me wonders if it is Reza who actually feels this way and just asked Adam to say those words on camera. If not, Reza is an asshole for being so two-faced and pretending like he actually wants to make up with MJ.

GG & Destiney -- I can't be bothered

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5 hours ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

I hate watch this show, there I admitted it. I agree @F8. that MJ and her style choices make me want to stick a fork in my eye. The rats nest wig or whatever is doing her no favors along with her attire. I am embarrassed for her ( not really ) 

I have never understood her fashion choices.  She has no concept of her body type and seems to go out of her way to wear skin tight clothes that enhance her rotund shape, if she does not watch out she will morph in Big Ed of 90 Day Fiance.

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15 minutes ago, Rahul said:

Reza has hidden assets under Adam's name and now Adam has gained an advantage in the power dynamic.

😮Interesting and that would explain a lot! Like why these two asre even still married (or even got married if I am honest)  Because as you and I have said in our posts those guys have nothing in their relationship.

15 minutes ago, Rahul said:

GG & Destiney -- I can't be bothered

I tend to disagree about GG though. She has done a real 180 this season and shown incredible growth from being the angry one who punches people to trying to get her life back on track and mend relationships or at least be at peace with them.

As for Destiney I have no clue. Everytime she opens her mouth to defend herself I get lost within a few words. She could be reciting the L.A. phone book for all I know - she makes no damn sense at all and I can't be bothered trying to figure her out. No loss if she left.

Edited by F8.
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7 hours ago, Ubiquitous said:

MJ and Reza eventually reconcile again, but I am sure this will not be the last time.

The hard part of these constant reconciliations between these two is we know that in real life they are currently complete enemies so it all feels a bit disingenuous.

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8 hours ago, tinaw said:

Reza and Adam should call it quits.  Reza and MJ need to stay away from each other . Neither one is going to listen to what the other is saying or wanting. Whats the point? This show used to be fun but its not anymore. #RIPShahs

Reza would milk his "emotional breakdown", crying and faux sadness over the end of his marriage, perfect for chewing the scenery!  It would be his never ending story.

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21 minutes ago, F8. said:

😮Interesting and that would explain a lot! Like why these two asre even still married (or even got married if I am honest)  Because as you and I have said in our posts those guys have nothing in their relationship.

I tend to disagree about GG though. She has done a real 180 this season and shown incredible growth from being the angry one who punches people to trying to get her life back on track and mend relationships or at least be at peace with them.

As for Destiney I have no clue. Everytime she opens her mouth to defend herself I get lost within a few words. She could be reciting the L.A. phone book for all I know - she makes no damn sense at all and I can't be bothered trying to figure her out. No loss if she left.

But why? Why would Reza need to hide assets?

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2 hours ago, AnnieBananie said:

You could tell Paulina was PISSED that the romantic trip was becoming a group trip. I would have been!

I totally missed the trip was sppsd to be for Mike and Paulina, but yeah, she shouldn't have been surprised it became a group trip with Mike's castmates.

2 hours ago, Rahul said:

Reza and Adam can barely stand looking at one another.  It's clear there is no love or intimacy in their marriage and they're only holding on for the sake of public image. I also think there may be some merit into the rumor that Reza has hidden assets under Adam's name and now Adam has gained an advantage in the power dynamic.

Adam really disgusts me. The mess he's in is entirely his doing, but he never wants to talk to MJ and sets a hard rule that she is to never set foot in his house again? How exactly is Reza supposed to repair his fractured relationship with MJ? Part of me wonders if it is Reza who actually feels this way and just asked Adam to say those words on camera. If not, Reza is an asshole for being so two-faced and pretending like he actually wants to make up with MJ.

Yeah, I noticed their scenes together don't exactly exude warmth. I'm still convinced they both screw around with other people and, as Reza said it himself last week, Reza is upset that this makes him look bad.

I never really liked Adam. He seems to put up with a lot of crap from Reza, like Reza constantly reminding him that he bought the house and is the one who earn the money. Your theory about Reza putting Adam up to banning MJ from the house seems very plausible, in part b/c Reza's the kind of asshole who would do that.

 

 

1 hour ago, DrSparkles said:

But why? Why would Reza need to hide assets?

What assets? His dozens of shoes and clothes from Forever 21?

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3 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I have never understood her fashion choices.  She has no concept of her body type and seems to go out of her way to wear skin tight clothes that enhance her rotund shape, if she does not watch out she will morph in Big Ed of 90 Day Fiance.

The reality show I want to see her on is Botched.  Getting implants removed and or breast reduction.  Those giant boulders have to cause back pain. She would be a lot prettier and her clothes would look less tacky also.

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23 hours ago, FrankieTankie said:

Nema is the biggest sissy bitch on tv .... dude cry’s about everything with those dominoes teeth ... Props to the heels on MJ’s pumps how they held up under all off that MJ Girth is amazing ... I’m also curious does mike wear a sports bra to keep his man tits in place.... Adam is shady nympho weasel ... he’s a shit disturber but Reza can’t see it because Reza is too busy being a sociopath 

Everything you said yes, yes, yes.

Who in the h... does she  think she is?  I'm so sick of her holier than thou attitude!  And she's off to vacation with her 'friend's leaving her precious baby behind '.  Really...

Adam is the enemy Reza  look around!  Geeez.  Reza looks like a fool putting up with that piece of .....!  

Edited by Jeanne222
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6 hours ago, AnnieBananie said:

You could tell Paulina was PISSED that the romantic trip was becoming a group trip. I would have been!

Paulina has to understand the only way the group travels is with the network footing the bills!

Nobody has money to travel, party or eat!

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6 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I have never understood her fashion choices.  She has no concept of her body type and seems to go out of her way to wear skin tight clothes that enhance her rotund shape, if she does not watch out she will morph in Big Ed of 90 Day Fiance.

From the coming attractions next week we get to see her big bare a.. On a boogie board!

Can't wait for that!

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7 hours ago, DrSparkles said:

But why? Why would Reza need to hide assets?

Reza had a very successful real estate career - he is quite well off and might be using Adam it hide some assets for tax purposes. These people had lives before they started this show and he sold big time in L.A. real estate,

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34 minutes ago, F8. said:

Reza had a very successful real estate career - he is quite well off and might be using Adam it hide some assets for tax purposes. These people had lives before they started this show and he sold big time in L.A. real estate,

Using Adam’s name would just be that he would require to pay the taxes.

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2 hours ago, F8. said:

Reza had a very successful real estate career - he is quite well off and might be using Adam it hide some assets for tax purposes. These people had lives before they started this show and he sold big time in L.A. real estate,

I only watch this show sporadically the last couple of years, so I might have missed it -Why do Reza and Adam live in such humble abode? I am in San Francisco, so I get  regional high cost of housing, but with Reza's love of brand names and flashy, gaudy, more is more style I was expecting something, you know...more?

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10 hours ago, Ubiquitous said:

 

What assets? His dozens of shoes and clothes from Forever 21?

SHUT  UP!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣  you took the words out of my head.

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8 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

From the coming attractions next week we get to see her big bare a.. On a boogie board!

Can't wait for that!

Thanks for reminding me of that repressed memory.

OK, I did find the surf instructor's reaction to MJ bragging about her too-small thong amusing...

 

 

8 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Paulina has to understand the only way the group travels is with the network footing the bills! Nobody has money to travel, party or eat!

They're flossing.

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21 hours ago, AnnieBananie said:

You could tell Paulina was PISSED that the romantic trip was becoming a group trip. I would have been!

How else would Mike pay for it? 

Like all of these trips, the romantic getaway was just an excuse for them to go somewhere all expenses paid by BRAVO. Bravo wants the cast members all together - heavily liquored up - because there are almost guaranteed brawls and *drama* 

Given that the only possible reason she is seeing Mike is to be on a reality television show, I think she would have been pissed if she had been left behind like Adam and Tommy generally are.

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I am not sure what the mystery was regarding Nema's childhood.

It is not (or was not) uncommon for parents - especially in traditional cultures - to divide children between mother and father based on gender. While it is not the best psychologically in terms of the best interests of the children - it certainly shouldn't be treated as something mysterious.

What is mysterious is why the parents lived on opposite coasts preventing the children from having normal split custody but living with the sibling. It doesn't seem as though there were objective reasons for this - job or other family etc. to keep the parents on different coasts.

For me, it seemed the obvious issue and - at least in terms of the portions of the letter read - Nema's mother didn't address that at all.

Almost everyone carries some baggage from childhood. Only a child still thinks of their parents as some type of infallible gods. Most people within the range of normal try to parent as best they can. This is especially true if one's parents were relatively young - I remember my friend discussing how she *forgave* her parents when realized that they were just 22 and trying to figure out the world as much as they could - and how she at 22 was trying to figure out the world the best that she could.

Edited by amarante
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2 hours ago, amarante said:

I am not sure what the mystery was regarding Nema's childhood.

It is not (or was not) uncommon for parents - especially in traditional cultures - to divide children between mother and father based on gender. While it is not the best psychologically in terms of the best interests of the children - it certainly shouldn't be treated as something mysterious.

I say this as an adult around Nema’s age who can’t square some of my parents’ decision when raising me:  Maybe all he wants is a thorough acknowledgment and an explanation and a conversation.  

The way I would look at it if I were Nema is that I would want a thorough explanation as to how and why my mom (and my dad, if he’s still alive) were complicit in keeping me away from my sibling our entire childhood.  I would want to be heard about how much that hurt me and I would really want to hear what kind of psychological process they went through to justify that.  “Traditional culture” only gets one so far.  A lot of “traditional cultures” are still performing female genital mutilation. 

I didn’t think Nema’s mom looked particularly young, but youth is only an explanation for being a bad parent, it’s not an excuse IMO.  I have a simple philosophy:  don’t become a parent until you’re completely ready to parent.  Because I think parents are responsible for every choice they make with regard to their children, in a way that they’re not responsible for the choices they make with regard to other adults, who can just pack up and walk away.

 I don’t have children, in large part, because I’m not sure how good of a parent I’d be, and I think that’s been informed by my childhood (which was just chaotic, not abusive, no crazy backstory like Nema’s).  But I see that neither Nema nor Mona has procreated so far, and Nema is divorced.  Maybe their parents messed them up. The least they can do is address it fully.

I was born in the 80s, as Nema was.  When I used to try to talk to my mom about my childhood and just say, “why?  Why did you fail to protect me from [this thing]?”  I wouldn’t be angry so much as I would be curious, and my mom would always just shrug and say children don’t come with a manual.  For her, that was that, when for me it added insult to injury that, in her 50s and 60s, when she would definitely know better, she still wasn’t copping to it.  For me, minimizing it never helped one iota.  I finally had to sit my mom down in a therapist’s office and tell her, “there were actually dozens of books on parenting when I was born,” because I was so sick of untruths.  If the truth was you just weren’t thinking and you are sorry, that’s at least something.  But I never made much headway with my parents, so we just have a different relationship now.  

I don’t think Mike has any room to urge forgiveness.  I think it is extremely hard to forgive someone for something for which they haven’t assumed responsibility.  I think forgiveness is wildly overrated and distorted in our society, and I blame Dr Phil for making it sound like you are an asshole if you don’t forgive.  Maybe Nema doesn’t forgive!  Maybe he still loves his mother and wants to keep her in his life to some degree, but he doesn’t forgive her.  That’s how I feel about my parents, and I’m not walking around with hot boiling rage just beneath the surface.  I just think, eh, they aren’t evolved enough to admit to their shortcomings, so I’ll put them in this box in my life, as opposed to the box of people with whom I can be completely open and honest.  I just have to keep my guard up around them at least a little.  Not a big deal.  

That’s what sucked about the therapist IMO too.  It is his job to get Nema to the best place that Nema is capable of getting, not to give him a prescription for how to live his life and feel about people.  Clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson calls that “stealing the victory from the client.”  I just don’t see how it is even appropriate for Nema to be at the forgiveness stage with his mom.  She never directly owned up to splitting him up from his damn sister when it’s still really hurting him.  That’s a slap in the face.  The therapist should at least start by acknowledging that and seeing what Nema’s open to.  “Forgive, forgive, forgive” when sometimes you don’t even have the understanding to get your mind around the entire problem or the wrong that’s been visited upon you is awful advice, and for the most part, I would say, show me someone who urges across the board forgiveness, and I’ll show you a hypocrite.  

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On 4/18/2020 at 6:17 PM, F8. said:

I tend to disagree about GG though. She has done a real 180 this season and shown incredible growth from being the angry one who punches people to trying to get her life back on track and mend relationships or at least be at peace with them. 

I've always had a soft spot for GG, but I hate the way she's been a bitch to MJ this season, whether it's walking out as soon as she arrives or saying she no longer wants to be friends with her.

Why does Reza get a pass from GG for a lifetime of shitty behavior (including gossiping, backstabbing and being the 'brains' behind digging Shalom's ex-wife) but MJ is held to a different standard? GG is likely envious of MJ for being nearly 15 years her senior and still beating her to the punch of having a baby. Unlike GG, MJ also has an enduring marriage and a home that she bought with her own money. I don't think MJ has ever had to rely on her parents to finance her lifestyle or pay the bills.

If GG and MJ were to join forces, they could easily decimate Reza and force his wobbly crying fat ass off the show if they wanted. Reza can dish it, but he certainly can't take it. The first season when he gets a taste of his own medicine he's reduced to rubble.

Edited by Rahul
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On 4/18/2020 at 6:39 PM, DrSparkles said:

But why? Why would Reza need to hide assets?

According to Tommy, this all relates to Reza filing for bankruptcy before the show started. Reza then allegedly put assets in Adam's name to avoid what I'm assuming would be seizure or liens and has been spending his money like there is no tomorrow for the same reason. 

vihOcja.jpg

Tommy's diatribe continues... https://imgur.com/a/K93f5f6

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35 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I say this as an adult around Nema’s age who can’t square some of my parents’ decision when raising me:  Maybe all he wants is a thorough acknowledgment and an explanation and a conversation.  

The way I would look at it if I were Nema is that I would want a thorough explanation as to how and why my mom (and my dad, if he’s still alive) were complicit in keeping me away from my sibling our entire childhood.  I would want to be heard about how much that hurt me and I would really want to hear what kind of psychological process they went through to justify that.  “Traditional culture” only gets one so far.  A lot of “traditional cultures” are still performing female genital mutilation. 

I didn’t think Nema’s mom looked particularly young, but youth is only an explanation for being a bad parent, it’s not an excuse IMO.  I have a simple philosophy:  don’t become a parent until you’re completely ready to parent.  Because I think parents are responsible for every choice they make with regard to their children, in a way that they’re not responsible for the choices they make with regard to other adults, who can just pack up and walk away.

 I don’t have children, in large part, because I’m not sure how good of a parent I’d be, and I think that’s been informed by my childhood (which was just chaotic, not abusive, no crazy backstory like Nema’s).  But I see that neither Nema nor Mona has procreated so far, and Nema is divorced.  Maybe their parents messed them up. The least they can do is address it fully.

I was born in the 80s, as Nema was.  When I used to try to talk to my mom about my childhood and just say, “why?  Why did you fail to protect me from [this thing]?”  I wouldn’t be angry so much as I would be curious, and my mom would always just shrug and say children don’t come with a manual.  For her, that was that, when for me it added insult to injury that, in her 50s and 60s, when she would definitely know better, she still wasn’t copping to it.  For me, minimizing it never helped one iota.  I finally had to sit my mom down in a therapist’s office and tell her, “there were actually dozens of books on parenting when I was born,” because I was so sick of untruths.  If the truth was you just weren’t thinking and you are sorry, that’s at least something.  But I never made much headway with my parents, so we just have a different relationship now.  

I don’t think Mike has any room to urge forgiveness.  I think it is extremely hard to forgive someone for something for which they haven’t assumed responsibility.  I think forgiveness is wildly overrated and distorted in our society, and I blame Dr Phil for making it sound like you are an asshole if you don’t forgive.  Maybe Nema doesn’t forgive!  Maybe he still loves his mother and wants to keep her in his life to some degree, but he doesn’t forgive her.  That’s how I feel about my parents, and I’m not walking around with hot boiling rage just beneath the surface.  I just think, eh, they aren’t evolved enough to admit to their shortcomings, so I’ll put them in this box in my life, as opposed to the box of people with whom I can be completely open and honest.  I just have to keep my guard up around them at least a little.  Not a big deal.  

That’s what sucked about the therapist IMO too.  It is his job to get Nema to the best place that Nema is capable of getting, not to give him a prescription for how to live his life and feel about people.  Clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson calls that “stealing the victory from the client.”  I just don’t see how it is even appropriate for Nema to be at the forgiveness stage with his mom.  She never directly owned up to splitting him up from his damn sister when it’s still really hurting him.  That’s a slap in the face.  The therapist should at least start by acknowledging that and seeing what Nema’s open to.  “Forgive, forgive, forgive” when sometimes you don’t even have the understanding to get your mind around the entire problem or the wrong that’s been visited upon you is awful advice, and for the most part, I would say, show me someone who urges across the board forgiveness, and I’ll show you a hypocrite.  

I wish I could like this post a hundred times. I was also born in the 80's. I still don't have children and not sure if I'll ever have them. I may end up being a much older parent like some of the Shahs cast. It 100% has to do with my childhood/parents. One of my pet peeves is when people tell me I need to give my parents grandchildren. 

I also have parents who like to pretend certain traumas never occurred, that my childhood was perfect, and sorry isn't in their vocabulary. I thought maybe I was wrong to feel the way I do until I went to a therapist on my own and spilled my guts out. It felt so good to have someone acknowledge my life was far from the perfection my parents want everyone to believe it was. I managed to mostly get over a lot of my hurt, but I think the process could have happened a lot sooner with my parents acknowledging certain things they did. They like me to keep my mouth shut regarding anything that makes them look bad, and my mother has even said I've never experienced hardship. That definitely felt like "a slap in the face." I'm not comfortable being emotional, but anytime I start to talk about how bad my childhood was, it's really difficult for me not to cry because it was so bad. 

I especially agree about what you said about forgiveness. I love my parents and don't walk around in any kind of rage, but it's really easy for certain people to preach forgiveness when they have no idea what you've gone through. 

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MJ made a very cogent point to Reza in Hawaii which I nearly overlooked; if she wanted to retaliate against Reza, she would have done it after the season 2 reunion when he aired her dirty laundry and called her a pill-popping, wig-wearing, bank-robbing felon.

MJ may have been talking about Reza and Adam's trouble-ridden marriage with Destiney and Ali prior to filming but in no way do I believe she conspired with them to bring him down while in the hospital in critical condition after childbirth. The fact that Reza is blind to this and compares his struggles with hers aggravates me to no end--especially when his weasel of a husband has been slowly admitting everything we know about the messages (and likely being with other men) to be true. 

On a completely unrelated note, the biggest takeaway for me was that Paulina is 29! WTF?! I thought she was much closer to Mike's age. Paulina needs to scrap whatever anti-aging beauty regimen she's doing because it ain't working!

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5 hours ago, amarante said:

I am not sure what the mystery was regarding Nema's childhood.

Did anyone get the feeling there was more to Nema's story, like maybe his mother fled with him and was unable to bring his sister with them?

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2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I say this as an adult around Nema’s age who can’t square some of my parents’ decision when raising me:  Maybe all he wants is a thorough acknowledgment and an explanation and a conversation.  

The way I would look at it if I were Nema is that I would want a thorough explanation as to how and why my mom (and my dad, if he’s still alive) were complicit in keeping me away from my sibling our entire childhood.  I would want to be heard about how much that hurt me and I would really want to hear what kind of psychological process they went through to justify that.  “Traditional culture” only gets one so far.  A lot of “traditional cultures” are still performing female genital mutilation. 

I didn’t think Nema’s mom looked particularly young, but youth is only an explanation for being a bad parent, it’s not an excuse IMO.  I have a simple philosophy:  don’t become a parent until you’re completely ready to parent.  Because I think parents are responsible for every choice they make with regard to their children, in a way that they’re not responsible for the choices they make with regard to other adults, who can just pack up and walk away.

 I don’t have children, in large part, because I’m not sure how good of a parent I’d be, and I think that’s been informed by my childhood (which was just chaotic, not abusive, no crazy backstory like Nema’s).  But I see that neither Nema nor Mona has procreated so far, and Nema is divorced.  Maybe their parents messed them up. The least they can do is address it fully.

I was born in the 80s, as Nema was.  When I used to try to talk to my mom about my childhood and just say, “why?  Why did you fail to protect me from [this thing]?”  I wouldn’t be angry so much as I would be curious, and my mom would always just shrug and say children don’t come with a manual.  For her, that was that, when for me it added insult to injury that, in her 50s and 60s, when she would definitely know better, she still wasn’t copping to it.  For me, minimizing it never helped one iota.  I finally had to sit my mom down in a therapist’s office and tell her, “there were actually dozens of books on parenting when I was born,” because I was so sick of untruths.  If the truth was you just weren’t thinking and you are sorry, that’s at least something.  But I never made much headway with my parents, so we just have a different relationship now.  

I don’t think Mike has any room to urge forgiveness.  I think it is extremely hard to forgive someone for something for which they haven’t assumed responsibility.  I think forgiveness is wildly overrated and distorted in our society, and I blame Dr Phil for making it sound like you are an asshole if you don’t forgive.  Maybe Nema doesn’t forgive!  Maybe he still loves his mother and wants to keep her in his life to some degree, but he doesn’t forgive her.  That’s how I feel about my parents, and I’m not walking around with hot boiling rage just beneath the surface.  I just think, eh, they aren’t evolved enough to admit to their shortcomings, so I’ll put them in this box in my life, as opposed to the box of people with whom I can be completely open and honest.  I just have to keep my guard up around them at least a little.  Not a big deal.  

That’s what sucked about the therapist IMO too.  It is his job to get Nema to the best place that Nema is capable of getting, not to give him a prescription for how to live his life and feel about people.  Clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson calls that “stealing the victory from the client.”  I just don’t see how it is even appropriate for Nema to be at the forgiveness stage with his mom.  She never directly owned up to splitting him up from his damn sister when it’s still really hurting him.  That’s a slap in the face.  The therapist should at least start by acknowledging that and seeing what Nema’s open to.  “Forgive, forgive, forgive” when sometimes you don’t even have the understanding to get your mind around the entire problem or the wrong that’s been visited upon you is awful advice, and for the most part, I would say, show me someone who urges across the board forgiveness, and I’ll show you a hypocrite.  

I guess I wasn't clear in my original post. I didn't understand why Nema's mother was so secretive about the reasons for separating the siblings. Acknowledge it and move on because the secrecy is far worse for the dynamics of the family than whatever the reason was - especially since separating siblings by gender while psychologically harmful was not completely out of the question when it was done.

And in terms of forgiving one's parents, at some point one has to let go of whatever grudges one has unless one's parents were completely outside the norm of just garden variety neurotic parenting. Obviously this can be easier said than done but for one's sanity, one has to make peace with it or wind up like my aunt who was still nurturing grudges against my grandmother when my aunt was in her sixties. My grandmother was an immigrant and so enabling her children to survive and move into middle class was a supreme achievement - i.e. go to college and become relatively affluent. 

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Episode 12:

Quote

"The Persian Shore"

The Shahs are on a trip to Hawaii to celebrate Paulina’s 29th birthday. MJ makes an off-color remark and causes a stir with Mike and Paulina. Nema and GG find themselves having too much to drink, heightening the lingering tension between them.

Airs April 24, 2020.

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On 4/19/2020 at 7:59 PM, Ubiquitous said:

Did anyone get the feeling there was more to Nema's story, like maybe his mother fled with him and was unable to bring his sister with them?

Nema's mom kept the sister, and he was with the dad.  Unless I am remembering wrong.  I mean, it's not like it's Sophie's Choice, he was with his father, who I am sure the mother thought would be a good role model for him.  She probably figured it was fair to split them up, rather than one parent gets both kids.  I guess I don't understand his anger, parents make mistakes sometimes, and often they are legion.  But parents do the best they can.

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I never need to see MJ’s ass again.  They showed it so many times, with the thong, without the thong, at so many angles.  Why?  And I don’t think Destiney knows what she looks like in a two-piece, because her body isn’t camera-ready.  At least my eyes were only stung by Mike’s Buddha belly for the merest of seconds.  Did Mike really call out Shervin’s body and say he needed to eat more salad?  Look in a mirror, bud.  Everyone else looked good.  It’s not a fat/thin issue, it’s knowing how to dress for your body.  Reza kept his top on, thank the gods.  

The bee thing was so unappealing to me too, while I’m on the topic.  But I guess the group had to be split up so some shit could go down between MJ and Paulina.  

I am glad that the drama page has been turned, and we’re off this Ali shit, because I can at least understand this drama.  MJ was really passive-aggressive in telling Paulina she is so over Persian men, Mike talks down to Paulina, MJ is so glad to have found a white man, etc.  This puts Paulina in a really shitty position, because if she says nothing at all, she’s a doormat, and if she says something to Mike, she is the source of a blow-up.  What’s the other option, for Paulina to get into it with MJ directly, while MJ is on Paulina’s vacation?  As the outsider not angling for a permanent spot on this show, I wouldn’t want to give that to MJ.  I would want to go in the sun.  She did the right thing by letting Mike handle it, as this is literally his job, so MJ can miss me with saying she really wishes Paulina would have taken it up with her. 

So I thought MJ was wrong for saying that.  Apparently, so did Reza, but he didn’t say anything at the table, just in his talking heads.  I thought the “rules” of this “crew” were that everyone was supposed to have everything out in the open, and that’s the only kind of person Mike wants to be around.  He made a big fucking deal about that a few episodes ago.  So why doesn’t Mike have a problem with Reza cowering in the corner and not speaking his mind about MJ being wrong about confronting Paulina?  Because he forgets what he stands for when it’s convenient.  

Same with Mike saying “the chatter amongst the group” is that Sara has skeletons.  Again, what happened to Mike saying everything needs to be shared amongst the group immediately, or people are fake?  If this is an exception, how so?  

It’s so interesting that Sara gets to go everywhere looking doe-eyed, but never saying a word.  That’s an enviable position.  Speaking of enviable positions, Nema is paying his ex-girlfriend’s rent because she helped him through a divorce?  I would be happy to get someone through a divorce.  Nema, call me!  We’ll eat ice cream and watch Netflix as long as you’d like.  I got bills.

I’m so tired of hearing about GG’s marijuana use.  It’s like every few episodes we have to visualize what life is like from the stoned perspective.  If I cared...I’d get stoned.  MJ was definitely deeply in the cups when she confronted Paulina, but do we have to see the scene through MJ’s drunk eyes in a “funny” way?  That’s so boring.  Does Andy Cohen have a hand in this show?  He is another one who is so obsessed with marijuana.  Who cares?  It’s becoming the new “gluten-free.”  

In their current states, Nema is way too good and together for GG.  I’m so glad he didn’t fuck her.  She would eat him alive and he would be foolish enough to chance it.  I think he gets that and he’s just playing along for reality TV, so that’s a relief.  

Wouldn’t it have been a good opportunity for MJ to write, “Reza, when are you going to drop the charges against Tommy?” during the anonymous message burning session?  He is clearly using dropping the charges and the lawsuit as his trump card, and he will not drop any of it one second before he feels like he’s going to get what he wants from it.  It’s like paying the ransom on a kidnap.  Once it’s done, your leverage is out the door, and Reza didn’t just fall off the reality TV turnip truck (although he could always re-file on the civil suit until the statute of limitations runs).  

The part with the dolls that were supposed to simulate the stuff that went on between Nema and GG in the hot tub was so long, boring and immature, and makes me embarrassed I watch this show.  It’s shocking how boring some of these reality TV shows can make sex when they sensationalize it to the nth degree.  

Can they just stop trying to make GG and Nema happen, like officially?  I’d almost rather see Destiney and Sam.  I’d definitely rather see Shervin and Annalisse.  It would be more interesting to see Adam and Reza stare sullenly at each other and envision the thought bubbles over their heads about what a mistake they made.  Can we get back Bobby and Asifa?  Anything but these two people with no chemistry.  

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MJ's lumpy fat ass in a thong. Dear Lord, please. No more. 

Nema loves his ex-girlfriend but still wants to put his weenie in other chicks. That ain't love, sweetie. 

I love that MJ is on camera saying to Paulina exactly what she was denying having said. When will these people learn?

 

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13 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Nema's mom kept the sister, and he was with the dad.  Unless I am remembering wrong.  I mean, it's not like it's Sophie's Choice, he was with his father, who I am sure the mother thought would be a good role model for him.  She probably figured it was fair to split them up, rather than one parent gets both kids.  I guess I don't understand his anger, parents make mistakes sometimes, and often they are legion.  But parents do the best they can.

I'll have to watch again, when I get the time to spare (heh), but I thought Nema's mother was in a hurry when she left.

I forgot about the new ep this evening, so I'll have to watch it in its entirely later, however, I may have injured my eyes at hearing about Paulina's "birthday tradition". The only traditional things about that game is that it invariably leads to hurt feelings at some point.

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On 4/19/2020 at 7:30 PM, Rahul said:

According to Tommy, this all relates to Reza filing for bankruptcy before the show started.

I knew it. This explains A LOT.

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