Unsellable Houses - General Discussion

[amarante]

Painting cabinets is a cheap flipper fix. If the wood cabinets are in good shape they are 100% more durable than a paint job. A factory paint job is much more durable than paint done on older cabinets and will start chipping in a shorter time versus the original wood stain will still be in good shape even if not trendy. 
Last night’s episode made no sense either economically or functionally. There was only $20,000 additional even with cost of renovations being artificially low. And how are they getting four decent appliances for $2000. 
 

The actual renovation was pretty bad as well. There was no longer any place at all for a television so new homeowner will have to redo the wall unit. And there didn’t seem to be any dining area at all except for the bar they built. 

[pasdetrois]

They are doing what true flippers do - rapidly implement the latest inexpensive trends that are attractive to their specific market. Flippers try to move the houses within 30 - 60 days (minimize how long they hold the debt).

I just got three "shelter" magazines in the mail, and they all feature boldly colored cabinets, even in old houses where they are trying to maintain historic integrity. I think these colors appeal to a younger demographic especially, and the sisters have said most of the houses we've seen on the show are for first-time homeowners (young people). The single dad's big home is an exception, in terms of size.

I just finished painting my kitchen cabinets white. The cabinets are from the 50s and very dark, and the kitchen is small with smallish windows (old bungalow). I did it solely to brighten the room and along with yellow wall paint it made a huge difference.

That said, I draw the line at painting my old dark antique wood furniture!

Edited March 12, 2020 by pasdetrois

[sasha206]

I'm watching the episode with Chris and Aimee.  The sisters are talking about it being located in a techie environment...and they want the latest in design decor!  So they go to this shop that looks like the same country shit we've seen for the past 20 years. 

Based on what I've seen on their staging, their paint choices, their renovations, I can't even imagine how they've sold anything.  I mean, I guess the staging is better than what was before, but still, everything they've done to me looks cheap AF. 

[Edit:  the end result wasn't as bad as some of the other episodes, but I still think they are design challenged.]

Edited March 17, 2020 by sasha206

[DVDFreaker]

I swear that the sisters keep saying “ They are likely first time home buyers” in every episode, that is annoying and how would they know that? 

[DVDFreaker]

Is the sisters’ favorite color green? Last week it was the green cabinets and tonight it is the green subway tiles, the kitchen is ugly and the butcher block countertops is a little too much and how the hell did it go over $29,000 list price?

Edited March 18, 2020 by DVDFreaker

[sasha206]

28 minutes ago, DVDFreaker said:

I swear that the sisters keep saying “ They are likely first time home buyers” in every episode, that is annoying and how would they know that? 

Right?  And they talk about making it bold for these first time buyers.  Maybe there are some retired folks that want to downsize?  Why are you staging for a limited set of people?

Maybe they're incredible, but wow, the work they do looks so tacky and shoddy to me.  The staging is always so cluttered and busy too.

And one episode there was beautiful white tile in the mud room...that they did a cheap looking black stencil on.  

[DVDFreaker]

4 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Right?  And they talk about making it bold for these first time buyers.  Maybe there are some retired folks that want to downsize?  Why are you staging for a limited set of people?

Maybe they're incredible, but wow, the work they do looks so tacky and shoddy to me.  The staging is always so cluttered and busy too.

And one episode there was beautiful white tile in the mud room...that they did a cheap looking black stencil on.  

The mudroom sucked, it is too small to be a mudroom, the girls amuse me with their awful designs, they must have learn it from Hilda from Trading Spaces

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, DVDFreaker said:

The mudroom sucked, it is too small to be a mudroom, the girls amuse me with their awful designs, they must have learn it from Hilda from Trading Spaces

So funny you said that b/c I almost posted that some of their rooms remind me of a Trading Spaces episode!

 

[CrazyInAlabama]

On the new episode tonight, the kitchen looked better, but where was the fridge moved to?   And what was the magic transformation about getting a tree cut down, the roots ground, and paving the parking?   Some of these homeowners are so freaking lazy.    After tonight's house didn't sell the first time, why didn't he ask a realtor how to get it sold?   

I do hate the voice on both sisters.  

Edited March 18, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[sasha206]

I'm still pissed they painted a red front door light pink and put up a God awful looking fence on this one property.

Edited March 18, 2020 by sasha206

[mojito]

33 minutes ago, DVDFreaker said:

The mudroom sucked, it is too small to be a mudroom, the girls amuse me with their awful designs, they must have learn it from Hilda from Trading Spaces

The mudroom is in the middle of the house! I never heard of mudrooms until I started watching HGTV in the early oughts.  I thought the point of a mudroom was to give you a place to take your muddy boots off near the door you just came in, not walk through half the house either in or carrying your muddy or wet boots, then sitting down in the hallway and taking then off or putting them up. 

The mudroom looked perfect for children, not the hip-py mother who bore them.

These two don't seem to focus on any other demographic than young people. They know that market, they reach that market, they don't have to be high-end, just look high-end for that market. And do something slightly different that will attract that market. I commend their being able to find a profitable market that they know just how to appeal to, even if it does nothing for me. I have yet to find my own profitable angle on something, anything.

[suebee12]

I want to know what is with these two women and banisters and railings? Last week they had the stairs going to the loft area with no hand railing and tonight, the front stairs with absolutely nothing to hold on to! Ben(on Home  Town) keeps saying without railings the stairs would not meet code...I would never have stairs with nothing to support you on  the way up or down!!!!

[sasha206]

7 hours ago, mojito said:

These two don't seem to focus on any other demographic than young people. They know that market, they reach that market, they don't have to be high-end, just look high-end for that market. And do something slightly different that will attract that market. I commend their being able to find a profitable market that they know just how to appeal to, even if it does nothing for me. I have yet to find my own profitable angle on something, anything.

I always thought the young demographic wants everything industrial, modern, modern farmhouse.  To me, their designs don't even read "young."  They read middle-aged country designs by twins that think they are so quirky that drive a retro VW bus.

[pasdetrois]

The show is too one-note for me. Other shows are also predictable, but I'm not annoyed by those hosts nor their aesthetic.

Remove the temporary staging, and those houses are very ordinary with little renovations done during the flip. So I'm watching the sisters make lots of money for doing very little. (Show payments + Realtor fees + flipper investment reimbursement) And that annoys me.

A big part of the sisters' success is the hot real estate market they are in. They are just riding the bubble. Or were, before the coronavirus hit.

At least this latest young family received more proceeds from the sale than they hoped. Of course taxes and fees ate into that, and one hopes they can qualify for the (expensive) larger house they want.

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by pasdetrois

[Kemper]

I watched a mini-marathon of this show yesterday; and didn't mind it!  I saw a snippet awhile back where I thought it was Listed Sisters.  I wasn't interested so forgot about it.  

The shows I saw yesterday were pretty predictable - but the winner was that they were only 1/2 hour long.  Not too much drama, no familee hijinks or kids.  Yes, the "fixes" were pretty predictable and basic.  But I did enjoy the reveal at the end; and didn't have to wait 55 minutes to see it.  Maybe I enjoyed the marathon because I haven't seen the shows 100 times before in the constant marathons of, lately, Home Town (which I like but just can't watch over and over), the one with the mother-daughter combo, Mina and her mother (which I also like but am exhausted by) and Love It or List It.  Which I hate.  

But again, my enjoyment could mainly be the shows are 1/2 hour.

[chessiegal]

In our county stairs inside the house have to have railings to meet code, but not a few steps going into the house. We have brick steps into the front door. When we bought the house there were no railings, but I had wrought iron railings installed. I'm too old to navigate stairs without railings. 

[mojito]

14 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I always thought the young demographic wants everything industrial, modern, modern farmhouse.  To me, their designs don't even read "young."  They read middle-aged country designs by twins that think they are so quirky that drive a retro VW bus.

What they want and what they can afford are two different things. The twins do just enough to get their business. I suspect that the homes they sell are the less expensive ones in the area, so people are happy to get them. 

[ByaNose]

Their staging is very basic. I think the homeowners are either just dumb, lazy or have a terrible realtor. I’m a sucker for a renovation reveal so I don’t hate the show but their Reno’s are so basic that I can’t imagine hiring them. Like I said, the homeowners are just dumb or lazy. 

[chessiegal]

I would say the sellers either have bad agents or aren't listening to their agents. Last time we moved 10 years ago, we had 2 different agents - 1 to list and another acting as our buyers agent. We didn't move out of state, but far enough away to warrant agents who were very familiar with the markets. After a few weeks on the market, our listing agent reported feedback from agents showing our house. Turns out buyers thought some fixes would cost them over 20K. She had contacts with contractors who did the fixes mostly at cost - $2,500 for us. We sold in a week with multiple offers at full asking. Every time we looked at a house, our agent asked us for feed back to give the listing agent. That's what good RE agents do. 

[bilgistic]

So many weird choices in the split-level house. I thought the fireplace art(?) looked cheap. The wooden range hood was just weird, and the knot in the wood right in the front of it made it look chintzy. I HATED that they didn't have upper cabinets in the kitchen, and they didn't even put in a few floating shelves to make up for it. I generally like this show, but this house was a whole mess.

I did like the railing, so there's that.

[Kohola3]

10 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I HATED that they didn't have upper cabinets in the kitchen, and they didn't even put in a few floating shelves to make up for it. I generally like this show, but this house was a whole mess.

My eyes were rolling out of my head with the no upper cabinets.  That's just insane.  There was so little storage in that place and a pantry does not work well for putting dishes, glasses, etc.  A pantry is meant for food items.  No way in hell I'd settle for "design over function" in a kitchen where I'd have to get down on my hands and knees to get a cup for my tea.

I don't mind the sisters and it's an interesting concept with the fact that they kick in the money for the reno.  Love the shots of the local scenery.

[chessiegal]

Hated the kitchen with no upper cabinets. That's nuts.

[mojito]

I didn't care for the split-level kitchen or the thing over the fireplace, but if this show is telling even a little truth, I like that these two can get people to compete for their homes. I'll bet most of their buyers just came out of apartments, so these homes are palaces to them. Many probably even give much thought to kitchen cabinet space. They just want the open concept and things with a high cool factor (counter tops, thing over the fireplace, "stylish fireplace", horizontal wires on the stairs). I think the show is amusing. It's easy to imagine what these people will demand in their next home.

[chessiegal]

I don't know why shows call houses like what I call a split foyer a split level. I bought a split level - you walk in from the front door to the main floor - living room, dining room, kitchen. Set of half stairs up to 3 bedrooms, 2 baths. Half set of stairs down to an above ground basement with utilities and, in our case, an unfinished area we made into another living area.

[kirklandia]

3 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I don't know why shows call houses like what I call a split foyer a split level. I bought a split level - you walk in from the front door to the main floor - living room, dining room, kitchen. Set of half stairs up to 3 bedrooms, 2 baths. Half set of stairs down to an above ground basement with utilities and, in our case, an unfinished area we made into another living area.

What you describe is my childhood home.  We called them tri-levels. (Because they have 3!)  And we always called it a split-level if you had to go up or down as soon as you walked in the front door.

Here in the Seattle area, split-levels are often a great deal - good space for the price.  

Edited March 26, 2020 by kirklandia

[sasha206]

It is amazing how the home styles have changed so much.  No "open concept" when I grew up.  I think I saw my first kitchen with an island when I was 20 (I'm 52).    We had a kitchen that was small and the kitchen table was on the front of the house.  We did spend a lot of time at the kitchen table.  

Still I love the "open concept" and I'm glad I live in one!

[Kohola3]

1 minute ago, sasha206 said:

It is amazing how the home styles have changed so much.  No "open concept" when I grew up.  I think I saw my first kitchen with an island when I was 20 (I'm 52).    We had a kitchen that was small and the kitchen table was on the front of the house.  We did spend a lot of time at the kitchen table.  

Still I love the "open concept" and I'm glad I live in one!

There wasn't open concept for a long time. And I honestly think it's going to go away when people realize you have to keep one enormous space neat and clean. I like a separate kitchen so that I don't have to tidy up and put away all the pots and pans before sitting down for a meal. Plus the noise factor and the inability to shut the door on something smelly. I'm really not a fan.

[sasha206]

2 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

There wasn't open concept for a long time. And I honestly think it's going to go away when people realize you have to keep one enormous space neat and clean. I like a separate kitchen so that I don't have to tidy up and put away all the pots and pans before sitting down for a meal. Plus the noise factor and the inability to shut the door on something smelly. I'm really not a fan.

I don't know if it will ever go away.  In fact, what I think goes away is the living room and dining room.  It seems like not only are the islands getting bigger, but we're seeing double islands now (which personally I think is stupid).   

I do understand why you aren't a fan.  And there was something cozy about having separate areas!  But I like that my kitchen is the standout area  and i can admire it while I sit in the family room!  

[chessiegal]

I don't think open concept is going away anytime soon. Our paper's Home section recently reported that real estate agents said most buyers wanted it.

[pasdetrois]

I like open concept but am keeping my walls in my old home. We use the formal dining room often.

The fireplace treatment and wood hood range screamed "cheap." The only think I liked was the new divider rail. I love that particular industrial style.

I took down some cabinets in my small dark kitchen but only because I knew we wouldn't use them. The previous owner who a big family had put tops and bottoms on every wall surface

Edited March 27, 2020 by pasdetrois

[sasha206]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I like open concept but am keeping my walls in my old home. We use the formal dining room often.

The fireplace treatment and wood hood range screamed "cheap." The only think I liked was the new divider rail. I love that particular industrial style.

I took down some cabinets in my small dark kitchen but only because I knew we wouldn't use them. The previous owner who a big family had put tops and bottoms on every wall surface

I have "open concept" where my kitchen and family room are open.  I do have a separate dining room and while I don't use it often, I do like having it.  There is a part of me that wishes my kitchen was extended to the dining room was in living room.  The living room to me is just unnecessary.  But I guess if you liked to entertain with big parties, it gives you an offshoot room.

On the wood range hood, I have one.  And it was extremely expensive!  It doesn't look like the one they bought though.  The one thing I wanted was a walnut counter top for the island; my kitchen designer mentioned the wood range hood and it is actually really complimented in my house! 

 

[javajeanelaine]

This show is just a retooled Real Estate Intervention.

[Grrarrggh]

On 3/27/2020 at 12:40 PM, sasha206 said:

I have "open concept" where my kitchen and family room are open.  I do have a separate dining room and while I don't use it often, I do like having it.  There is a part of me that wishes my kitchen was extended to the dining room was in living room.  The living room to me is just unnecessary.  But I guess if you liked to entertain with big parties, it gives you an offshoot room.

 

I entertain some in my closed concept house and have had no trouble, counter to what HGTV swears. Plus I hate having to look at my kitchen when I'm not in it and I like different rooms to have different looks. And it's cheaper to heat and cool! As for wood countertops, I find they're not worth it. Between wear and tear, germs, water etc I'd rather have solid stone. 

[pasdetrois]

Amazing how my parents somehow managed big parties in modest houses, not to mention what I pulled off in my first little studio apartment.

[sasha206]

13 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

I entertain some in my closed concept house and have had no trouble, counter to what HGTV swears. Plus I hate having to look at my kitchen when I'm not in it and I like different rooms to have different looks. And it's cheaper to heat and cool! As for wood countertops, I find they're not worth it. Between wear and tear, germs, water etc I'd rather have solid stone. 

My wood countertop for the island has been treated that I don't get water rings. However, I do have some scratches from the dog  putting her paws up in some places.   These could be resanded down if I wanted to but right now, it just looks like a few character spots.  

I have quartz everywhere else!  

[mojito]

On 4/2/2020 at 8:22 AM, pasdetrois said:

Amazing how my parents somehow managed big parties in modest houses, not to mention what I pulled off in my first little studio apartment.

They just don't make people as resourceful as they used to. 😒

[DVDFreaker]

The sisters made the kitchen too dark with everything almost black and they sold for over $50,000 list price? This has to be a joke

[sasha206]

10 hours ago, DVDFreaker said:

The sisters made the kitchen too dark with everything almost black and they sold for over $50,000 list price? This has to be a joke

I'm guessing that just like every HGTV show that has fake elements, this is going to be one of them.  

[sasha206]

I'm catching up and the episode watching the one "Better than New" and apparently the builder did not put in a door for the bathroom?  Sorry I call bullshit.  Not only do I have a hard time believing a builder didn't put a door on, but I don't believe someone lived n the house without a door.  And then tried to sell the house w/o one.  

And my God these women have the tackiest taste I've ever seen for staging.  Along with their renovations selections.

On one episode, they want to have a light backsplash to "open it up," the next episode they've got dark subway tile.  

I think at this point, I'm only hate watching them and marveling how they've ever had any success with their tacky shit.

Edited April 8, 2020 by sasha206

[sasha206]

On 3/27/2020 at 12:40 PM, sasha206 said:

I have "open concept" where my kitchen and family room are open.  I do have a separate dining room and while I don't use it often, I do like having it.  {Edit:  I should say that the dining room is on the other side kitchen and it opens up to the living room. it's not a closed off room.}  There is a part of me that wishes my kitchen was extended to the dining room was in living room.  The living room to me is just unnecessary.  But I guess if you liked to entertain with big parties, it gives you an offshoot room.

On the wood range hood, I have one.  And it was extremely expensive!  It doesn't look like the one they bought though.  The one thing I wanted was a walnut counter top for the island; my kitchen designer mentioned the wood range hood and it is actually really complimented in my house! 

 

Oops for some reason my edited posted like it was new/quoted!

Edited April 8, 2020 by sasha206

[CrazyInAlabama]

My guess is that a realtor in that part of the country, wouldn't have to work that hard to sell anything.     I know people that live in the Seattle area, and if something is affordable, it sells, even if it needs major fix ups.    

A friend has lived in several different Seattle suburbs over the last 20 years.    He, and his husband have bought four houses, and sold three over that time.    The 'slow' selling house took a week from listing posting to bidding war, and signed contract.     One house, about 3 years ago, sold instantly.    The agent brought someone with them to the listing appointment, and that's the person who bought their house.    The buyer had worked with the agent before, and wanted a very specific location, and the deal was over before it even started.   

Edited April 8, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[bilgistic]

I really liked the design this week, but then, black is my favorite color. I thought they used enough white to balance it out. I was really worried about the "accent wall" in the bedroom when they were painting it, but it turned out great. I think I would want periwinkle or lavender instead of gray for a more dreamy, cozy space. The gray was a little dreary for a bedroom.

As others have mentioned, they put way too much crap in the houses when they stage, but that's an HGTV thing, I guess.

[sasha206]

5 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I really liked the design this week, but then, black is my favorite color. I thought they used enough white to balance it out. I was really worried about the "accent wall" in the bedroom when they were painting it, but it turned out great. I think I would want periwinkle or lavender instead of gray for a more dreamy, cozy space. The gray was a little dreary for a bedroom.

As others have mentioned, they put way too much crap in the houses when they stage, but that's an HGTV thing, I guess.

That was definitely one of their better ones!

[hisbunkie]

On 2/5/2020 at 11:54 AM, RoxiP said:

).  I guess they do not get their usual fee for selling the house b

I assumed they also list the home and get 6% fee of the original sale price. It would make a lot of sense. It’s such a changing market, buyers expectations are different than even five years ago. Most buyers expect turn key ready. 
Remodeling and renovations are very expensive, time consuming and needing expertise management. Not many are willing to do it. 

[sasha206]

It's really hard for me to believe that the houses they walk into have been sitting on the market for so long and the person makes no changes until they pony up some cash.  In the last one, the lady has files just sitting out.  Are we supposed to believe she just refused to move those?  That none of these people listen to their realtors on the very easy to fix items?  

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by sasha206

[Grrarrggh]

On 3/11/2020 at 4:52 PM, Beany Malone said:

But, but they were wood!  Honestly we just bought recently and we bought despite, not because, the previous owners painted perfectly nice oak cabinets a shiny green.  Sigh.  I get it if the cabinets are stained or damaged in some way and you can't afford to replace them.  But when there was nothing wrong with the cabinets why can't people just leave them alone?

I agree. I'm sick of people so obsessed with things looking, in their opinion, brand new. What they seem to mean is trendy. I'm also sick of people thinking that any house built pre 2020 must be falling apart. 

[pasdetrois]

Quote

I agree. I'm sick of people so obsessed with things looking, in their opinion, brand new. What they seem to mean is trendy. I'm also sick of people thinking that any house built pre 2020 must be falling apart. 

100X this. Several years after I bought my old house that needed lots of work, and the HGTV phenomenon was taking off, I realized that I didn't have to acknowledge industry trends. Or pay the money to keep up with them. Open concept, stainless steel, granite...they change constantly and, just as in fashion, the underlying purpose is to sell stuff and line vendors' pockets.

It astounds me that I've seen multiple houses re-done by flippers and buyers multiple times. Tear-down followed by two and three massive renovations over a 20 year period.

Do what you need (broken faucets), do what you love (gotta have wainscoting), and ignore the rest.

The exception is when it's time to sell. Depending on your market, you have to decide whether to go the pre-sale renovations and staging route that Realtors push. In most cases, you don't recover the full cost of your renovations, but you may gain top-dollar and a quick sale.

Edited April 15, 2020 by pasdetrois

[sasha206]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:06 PM, amarante said:

Painting cabinets is a cheap flipper fix. If the wood cabinets are in good shape they are 100% more durable than a paint job. A factory paint job is much more durable than paint done on older cabinets and will start chipping in a shorter time versus the original wood stain will still be in good shape even if not trendy. 
Last night’s episode made no sense either economically or functionally. There was only $20,000 additional even with cost of renovations being artificially low. And how are they getting four decent appliances for $2000. 
 

The actual renovation was pretty bad as well. There was no longer any place at all for a television so new homeowner will have to redo the wall unit. And there didn’t seem to be any dining area at all except for the bar they built. 

Nothing drives me crazier than these home shows that way underestimate the cost of doing the renovations.  I don't believe these "we saved money b/c we did most of the work ourselves..." because even those numbers are usually way low.  

[Jeeves]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

Nothing drives me crazier than these home shows that way underestimate the cost of doing the renovations.  I don't believe these "we saved money b/c we did most of the work ourselves..." because even those numbers are usually way low.  

Yep. I take all those numbers on those shows as creative writing. Definitely one of the UNreal parts of "reality TV."

ETA: On some of the Mike Holmes shows, they show a quick recap of the value of all the work they did to rescue a house. And it's huge! Even allowing for some inflation since they're patting themselves on the back for what they've basically donated to the homeowner?  I'd give more credence to those numbers than to the average DIY Network or HGTV show like Unsellable Houses.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Jeeves

[pasdetrois]

What has struck me about this show is how little the sellers are walking away with, especially in that market.

The "four appliances for $2000" must be that the sisters 1) keep a cache of appliances in their warehouse and 2) buy in bulk at deep discount. All my contractors push me to buy materials through their sources, claiming I would benefit from their discounts. I find what I want for less. But it does take time to buy your own materials.

Edited April 16, 2020 by pasdetrois