S09.E05: Episode 5

[StatisticalOutlier]

9 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Oh, I didn't notice the date. I didn't see anything, either.  Pesky scene cutters!

@MissLucas clarified what it was, upthread.  I can't remember if I saw that or not.

[Doublemint]

In previous years Sister Monica Joan was far gone into Alzheimer's.   Now, she seems cured.  Why hasn't anyone commented on this?

[Kohola3]

31 minutes ago, Doublemint said:

Why hasn't anyone commented on this?

It's a miracle?

[caitmcg]

2 hours ago, Doublemint said:

In previous years Sister Monica Joan was far gone into Alzheimer's.   Now, she seems cured.  Why hasn't anyone commented on this?

There has been lots of commentary over the past seasons about the inconsistency with which her mental acuity is treated by the show. The portrayal bounces between lucidity and wisdom and dementia however it best serves the story at any given moment.

[Suzn]

5 minutes ago, caitmcg said:

There has been lots of commentary over the past seasons about the inconsistency with which her mental acuity is treated by the show. The portrayal bounces between lucidity and wisdom and dementia however it best serves the story at any given moment.

2 hours ago, Doublemint said:

In previous years Sister Monica Joan was far gone into Alzheimer's.   Now, she seems cured.  Why hasn't anyone commented on this?

It's something I have been complaining about for a long time.  They show her as  completely incompetent and needing to be watched constantly and then they show her coming and going independently and up to various childish little schemes.  I'm sorry to all fans of Sister Monica Joan, but I'm ready for her to be sent to the mother house. 

There are others who deserve to be featured.  I'd love to see a stories about Sister Hilda and Sister Frances.

[nokat]

2 hours ago, Doublemint said:

In previous years Sister Monica Joan was far gone into Alzheimer's.   Now, she seems cured.  Why hasn't anyone commented on this?

This is a good comment. We were supposed to find her a bit eccentric.  If it was actually Alzheimers, she would be dead.

 

[OtterMommy]

5 hours ago, Doublemint said:

In previous years Sister Monica Joan was far gone into Alzheimer's.   Now, she seems cured.  Why hasn't anyone commented on this?

My suspicion is that having MJ dealing with dementia was a good contrast to the no-nonsense Sister Evangelista.  However, once Sister Evangelista was gone it didn't work as well as the writers decided to make a switch from dementia to eccentricity.

Yeah, it's odd (at best) or downright annoying (at worse) if you think about it.  But I actually prefer to eccentric version, so I'm trying not to think about it.

[craziness]

When Sister MJ is sick, her actions are much more eccentric than at other times.  We've seen that more than once.

[debraran]

9 hours ago, nokat said:

This is a good comment. We were supposed to find her a bit eccentric.  If it was actually Alzheimers, she would be dead.

 

I think we all thought Alzheimers but in my mom's day, sometimes age caused "spells" You would have someone get confused or forget things because of age, but they didn't have an disease that wasn't just old age. One show did show her quite bad but again, certain diseases can cause that and I'll pretend the virus passed or whatever and she's just "old" now and eccentric. She always was that way I think. ; )  The show needs new blood at times but it also needs stable ones. There are 4 nuns now and I don't want to see less. I like what Sr Monica Joan brings to the show, her thoughts and sensitivity and I don't want her written off to a convent nursing home. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by debraran

[JudyObscure]

I agree.  My father had dementia into his eighties, but only became really confused during stressful times.  He managed  to live alone until the last six months of his life.  As long as he had his regular routine, without any particular upsets, he did fine. He became a little obsessed with the TV like Monica Joan is, so that part seems very real to me. I too like her character and hope she stays on.  

[debraran]

7 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I agree.  My father had dementia into his eighties, but only became really confused during stressful times.  He managed  to live alone until the last six months of his life.  As long as he had his regular routine, without any particular upsets, he did fine. He became a little obsessed with the TV like Monica Joan is, so that part seems very real to me. I too like her character and hope she stays on.  

That's true, sometimes my mom from 80s to 95 now would have confused days, two times the doc thought maybe a mini stroke of some kind, TIA,  they call it, but next day she was fine. That's what it seems Sr Monica Joan has.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

That's true, sometimes my mom from 80s to 95 now would have confused days, two times the doc thought maybe a mini stroke of some kind, TIA,  they call it, but next day she was fine. That's what it seems Sr Monica Joan has.

If you watch the first season of the show, Sister MJ is very clearly demented.  She steals small things from the various Poplar shops, has very purposefully been removed from midwife duty and shows real confusion (without being otherwise ill) in how she interacts with people.  My presumption was that there was some kind of recognition by everyone involved with the show that if they wanted to keep the character, they would have to tone down those aspects and transition her into something more tenable for an ongoing series.   

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

If you watch the first season of the show, Sister MJ is very clearly demented.  She steals small things from the various Poplar shops, has very purposefully been removed from midwife duty and shows real confusion (without being otherwise ill) in how she interacts with people.  My presumption was that there was some kind of recognition by everyone involved with the show that if they wanted to keep the character, they would have to tone down those aspects and transition her into something more tenable for an ongoing series.   

I think you are absolutely correct as to why she was changed from having dementia to just being eccentric.  She was shown as being far worse than merely having spells or bad days and the trajectory of that is to get worse, not to becoming functional again.

I guess I am the only one annoyed with the amount of time Sister Monica Joan sucks up when other characters have very little story.

[HoneyBeach]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I think you are absolutely correct as to why she was changed from having dementia to just being eccentric.  She was shown as being far worse than merely having spells or bad days and the trajectory of that is to get worse, not to becoming functional again.

I guess I am the only one annoyed with the amount of time Sister Monica Joan sucks up when other characters have very little story.

You are not the only one. I find little, tiny doses of SMJ, is plenty.

[JudyObscure]

On 4/27/2020 at 9:31 PM, txhorns79 said:

 

And sorry Call the Midwife, but when an elderly character says they have had an accident, I don't need to actually see proof of what kind of accident they have had.  Going forward, please feel free to leave that to our imagination. 

For a while I thought they were going for a theme about bodily fluids and how we all must deal with them or something.  Then both the stains on the backs of skirts had to be taken care of at the kitchen sink and I thought, as with the typhoid episode, it was going to be about the importance of getting the Poplar residents into  housing with indoor bathrooms.  But no, the theme seemed to be the midwives needing a little fun in their lives, so I hope the writers  read your post and spare us in the future.

[Doublemint]

21 hours ago, caitmcg said:

There has been lots of commentary over the past seasons about the inconsistency with which her mental acuity is treated by the show. The portrayal bounces between lucidity and wisdom and dementia however it best serves the story at any given moment.

Yes - exactly, and it's very jarring that this happens...

[lovesnark]

23 hours ago, craziness said:

When Sister MJ is sick, her actions are much more eccentric than at other times.  We've seen that more than once.

Something as simple as a bladder infection/UTI can cause someone with dementia to go completely off the deep end. I remember Sister Monica Joan having episodes of bizarre behavior and Dr Turner treating her for pneumonia. Like the time  Sister Evangelina found her at her childhood home.  I also remember him diagnosing her with a UTI after a bout of crazy behavior.

I once found my Dad wandering around his yard at 3:00am wearing nothing but his underwear and carrying a flashlight. He was sure someone was in his shop using his table saw. His nurse practitioner diagnosed a UTI the next day and all was right in the world after 24 hours of antibiotics.

 

[MissLucas]

Since Judy Parfitt's late husband suffered from dementia I hope that she has some input into the writing for Sister Monica Joan. She mentioned in interviews that Sister MJ's unpredicatable state of mind is a challenge.

That said I noticed that in tv shows characters with extreme or eccentric character traits are often written somewhat inconsistently - i.e. those traits are bent according to plot requirements (prime examples are Temperance Brennan and Sheldon Cooper).

Edited April 30, 2020 by MissLucas

[mmecorday]

Quote

And the TV dinners!  Shelagh was stoked about those!

I can only base my opinion on the TV dinners we were sometimes served in the 70s. From what I remember, they were not a treat. I often wondered, "Am I being punished for something?"

I was not paying a lot of attention during this episode. Was Sister Julienne wearing clothes the poor didn't want? If so, nice nod to "The Sound of Music."

I remember watching "The Sound of Music" on TV for the first time with my mother. She promised me that the scene where the Von Trapps escaped would be "really neat." This was in the era of "Star Wars" and "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." I thought a space ship was going to descend on the stage and take them away. I was really disappointed in how their escape was actually depicted. I also really felt sorry for the Von Trapp kids wearing play clothes made from drapes. The drapes in our home were made from fiberglass and I thought having clothes made from that material would be awfully itchy.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I can only base my opinion on the TV dinners we were sometimes served in the 70s. From what I remember, they were not a treat. I often wondered, "Am I being punished for something?"

I was not paying a lot of attention during this episode. Was Sister Julienne wearing clothes the poor didn't want? If so, nice nod to "The Sound of Music."

I remember watching "The Sound of Music" on TV for the first time with my mother. She promised me that the scene where the Von Trapps escaped would be "really neat." This was in the era of "Star Wars" and "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." I thought a space ship was going to descend on the stage and take them away. I was really disappointed in how their escape was actually depicted. I also really felt sorry for the Von Trapp kids wearing play clothes made from drapes. The drapes in our home were made from fiberglass and I thought having clothes made from that material would be awfully itchy.

I might be wrong, but I thought it was what she came to the convent in when she joined. (surprised it fit but don't know her age then) Many kept that outfit of their old life and in case they wanted to leave at any point, they had it. I have read that in some books from nuns who did leave in the 60's.

My curtains would have been the cheap fiberglass but then, the Van Trapps might have had the "Gone With the Wind" type drapes, which were quite nice!

[Kohola3]

7 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I can only base my opinion on the TV dinners we were sometimes served in the 70s. From what I remember, they were not a treat.

Oh, we thought they were wonderful!  So many varieties!  My mom loved them as well, just toss them in the oven and done.  Of course my dad didn't care for them so we only had them when he was out of town - he traveled for business and mom made it a big party and we got to shop and pick out our very own flavors.

Looking back they were pretty awful but I remember them quite fondly.

22 minutes ago, debraran said:

I might be wrong, but I thought it was what she came to the convent in when she joined.

That's probably the case.  Back then they did save their clothes when they joined the convent in case they decided to leave.

[tennisgurl]

Oh hello, the Feels have arrived. Seeing the Turners (including Timothy, TV best teen!) so much was really great, especially Shelagh and Dr. Turners night out. Its been rather tough for them lately, with Doctor Turner spending so much time working and them spending so much time apart, I am really glad they got to have a nice night together. 

I felt really bad for the woman stuck taking care of her whole family, even if I thought her lashing out at Sister Julienne, who was just trying to help, was uncalled for. It did lead to the Sister Julienne plot with her getting a taste of non religious life, which was a really good story for her, especially as she seemed to be getting a bit up tight. I wish the lady could have told her crappy daughter off the way she yelled at Sister Julienne, she was clearly just expecting her mom to take care of her kids and her just because she didn't like being at the hospital (not surprising that someone had a tone with her, lord knows I might have!) and didn't even notice how overworked her mom is. 

For me, The Sound of Music has always kind of just existed, having grown up watching it on TV and on video, so it was funny to me to see it as the cool new movie that everyone wants to see. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

4 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Oh, we thought they were wonderful!  So many varieties!  My mom loved them as well, just toss them in the oven and done.  Of course my dad didn't care for them so we only had them when he was out of town - he traveled for business and mom made it a big party and we got to shop and pick out our very own flavors.

Looking back they were pretty awful but I remember them quite fondly.

I loved the little square blueberry muffin thing.

God bless you, internet.  Here's a photo of the Swanson chopped sirloin dinner:

https://quaintcooking.com/2020/03/16/swanson-tv-dinner-with-blueberry-muffin-ad-1967/

ETA:  And about the trip to see the escalator.  There was one escalator in my town, at Sears.  We never shopped there, but as a kid, I would go there just to ride it.  There was a display at the top with a canopy bed that I would have killed for.

It's fun to know that there were these odd similarities between Poplar and my little Texas town.

Edited May 1, 2020 by StatisticalOutlier

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

For me, The Sound of Music has always kind of just existed, having grown up watching it on TV and on video, so it was funny to me to see it as the cool new movie that everyone wants to see. 

Wiki says, "By November 1966, The Sound of Music had become the highest-grossing film of all-time—surpassing Gone with the Wind—and held that distinction for five years. The film was just as popular throughout the world, breaking previous box-office records in twenty-nine countries."

Some people went absolutely nuts over it. My mother worked with a couple of women who went to see it every Friday night for the several years it played  in Charleston.  They were not the only ones.

[mishy]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:33 PM, LittleIggy said:

Guess I’m the only one who doesn’t need more Timothy scenes. I think he is a snooze.

Oh man, I thought I was alone. I don't care about Tim at all. 

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Wiki says, "By November 1966, The Sound of Music had become the highest-grossing film of all-time—surpassing Gone with the Wind—and held that distinction for five years.

Oh, yeah, it was huge.  I remember the Catholic school busing kids downtown to a theater in Detroit to see it.

[Diana Berry]

best episode of the season

[Badger]

I noticed another deleted scene.  Sister Hilda is talking to Nurse Crane and explaining why she thinks it's important to allow fathers into the delivery room.  She says when she was a child, she didn't have much of a relationship with her father and that he spent all his time with her brothers while she was with Nanny.  Anyway, she wonders that maybe things might have been different if he had been present at her birth.

[Deskisamess]

On 4/28/2020 at 8:04 AM, Kohola3 said:

So currently 5 pounds is worth about $6 US although not sure about back then but probably close. That woman pitched a fit over that little bit?  Sheesh.

That 5 pounds would have been about equal to $82 now. It would have taken the grandma a long time to save up. It's more what it represented than the actual money. Death brings out the best and worst, and a grieving person is likely to say and do things they wouldn't normally say.

[LeGrandElephant]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:35 PM, Brookside said:

First off, you'd never run a raffle like that.  What if the first ticket is the winner?  Then you've only made a huge threepence for the incubator fund.

Since movie tickets aren’t that much of a big-ticket item, I’m guessing that once someone wins the tickets they can just keep running the raffle and keep giving out more than one set of tickets. But yes, it would have still made more sense to run it like a traditional raffle. 

 

On 2/3/2020 at 4:01 AM, MissLucas said:

Sister Frances finally showed some steel when she sent the daughter packing.

I know the daughter was being oblivious but I thought that was actually a bit harsh, since it seemed no one had tried to say it nicely to her first, and the mom had apparently been hiding all her issues  and refusing to ask for help. Why not start with more nicely saying your mom is overworked and sick with her own serious medical problems, so you’ll have to either go back to the maternity home or to your own home, she can’t be taking care of you right now. And then if she still refuses, THEN get all snappy with her. 

The mom caused a lot of her own problems by being mean to the people who were just trying to help. She could have asked the nuns to help take care of her mother, instead of yelling at them when they tried to help. She’s lucky to live in a “welfare state” that has an “incontinence service” - amazing, they have a free government service just to come in and do laundry for old incontinent people? I don’t feel so bad for that woman being overwhelmed if she was just refusing to take advantage of all that amazing free help they seem to have. 

[LadyChaos]

I used to love the Sound of Music as a child, but knowing the truth behind the movie made the comparison to the Turners hard to stomach.

[LeGrandElephant]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

I used to love the Sound of Music as a child, but knowing the truth behind the movie made the comparison to the Turners hard to stomach.

What are you referring to?

[LadyChaos]

9 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

What are you referring to?

There are some small changes to the story obviously like:

The Von Trapp family was already musical and touring before Maria came into their lives and the Barron wasn't a hardened old man who hated music.

They didn't escape through the mountains to come to america. They left Switzerland by train, stating they were leaving to tour in America....and didn't return.

https://www.history.com/news/the-real-history-behind-the-sound-of-music

The bigger change(though I cannot find an article to support this, but I read about it a few years ago):

Maria herself, who was not a happy sunshine rainbows person at all. She had her moments where she was and the family loved her, but she was also prone to boughts of rage, throwing things and considered abusive at times.

It came out a few years ago that after arriving to the US, Maria basically worked the family to the bone in their singing career and presenting the happy perfect family unit. Every child was required to sing whether they wanted to or not. Some children were driven to nervous breakdowns and hospitalized. 

[NYCFree]

10 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

There are some small changes to the story obviously like:

The Von Trapp family was already musical and touring before Maria came into their lives and the Barron wasn't a hardened old man who hated music.

They didn't escape through the mountains to come to america. They left Switzerland by train, stating they were leaving to tour in America....and didn't return.

https://www.history.com/news/the-real-history-behind-the-sound-of-music

The bigger change(though I cannot find an article to support this, but I read about it a few years ago):

Maria herself, who was not a happy sunshine rainbows person at all. She had her moments where she was and the family loved her, but she was also prone to boughts of rage, throwing things and considered abusive at times.

It came out a few years ago that after arriving to the US, Maria basically worked the family to the bone in their singing career and presenting the happy perfect family unit. Every child was required to sing whether they wanted to or not. Some children were driven to nervous breakdowns and hospitalized. 

 My mother’s family comes from Vermont and my uncle met one of the “kids” when they were in their early adulthood. It’s true, the Von Trapp son my uncle met said he hated to do the touring and performing but was forced to do it.

[Kim0820]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:35 AM, Brookside said:

The fish and chip man would never say "Enjoy" to his customers.  I grew up in the UK, and when I moved to the States in the 90s I found it very jarring for the longest time as I'd never heard it before.

 

I noticed that too!  A very 21st century thing to say.  I wonder if they do that on purpose or without thinking.  Maybe they want 21st century viewers to understand something by using their language from a time where they would not have used it.  I've seen it in period dramas before.  In 18th century Poldark, one character said another was "not a fan" of them and another used the "two words - boarding school" the "number of words" 21st century expression. 

On 4/27/2020 at 6:10 AM, JudyObscure said:

I couldn't understand Mrs. Calthorpe's nastiness to the one person who was coming around to help her.  I also don't see how anyone could live in Poplar, seeing the nuns and midwives going home at five in the morning after being up all night delivering babies, and going out in all weather from house to house to dress wounds and care for people, and then say they've never worked a day in their lives.  I know she was ill and exhausted, but it wasn't anyone else's fault.  At least she was getting free medical care which is more than many people have.

Agree totally, I disliked her for that.  It went over the line when one is supposed to have sympathy for her.

On 4/28/2020 at 6:33 PM, Doublemint said:

In previous years Sister Monica Joan was far gone into Alzheimer's.   Now, she seems cured.  Why hasn't anyone commented on this?

I've thought they needed to have avoided that at the beginning, just made SMJ the retired one who had wisdom and warmth and some eccentricity.  They didn't have to go with dementia and should have seen that it could not work for the long term.  So unless they originally planned a short run for the character, they needed to avoid the impression that she was anything more than just forgetful in old age.  Save the dementia for retirement of the character.

On 4/29/2020 at 10:53 AM, txhorns79 said:

If you watch the first season of the show, Sister MJ is very clearly demented.  She steals small things from the various Poplar shops, has very purposefully been removed from midwife duty and shows real confusion (without being otherwise ill) in how she interacts with people.  My presumption was that there was some kind of recognition by everyone involved with the show that if they wanted to keep the character, they would have to tone down those aspects and transition her into something more tenable for an ongoing series.   

Exactly.

On 5/1/2020 at 10:20 AM, tennisgurl said:

For me, The Sound of Music has always kind of just existed, having grown up watching it on TV and on video, so it was funny to me to see it as the cool new movie that everyone wants to see. 

The SOM and Mary Poppins were the first movies I recall seeing in the theater, my parents taking us, of course.  I feel like the show has reached the point in my own life where I was started to be aware of the outside world!  

On 10/9/2020 at 11:45 AM, LeGrandElephant said:

I know the daughter was being oblivious but I thought that was actually a bit harsh, since it seemed no one had tried to say it nicely to her first, and the mom had apparently been hiding all her issues  and refusing to ask for help. Why not start with more nicely saying your mom is overworked and sick with her own serious medical problems, so you’ll have to either go back to the maternity home or to your own home, she can’t be taking care of you right now. And then if she still refuses, THEN get all snappy with her. 

The mom caused a lot of her own problems by being mean to the people who were just trying to help. She could have asked the nuns to help take care of her mother, instead of yelling at them when they tried to help. She’s lucky to live in a “welfare state” that has an “incontinence service” - amazing, they have a free government service just to come in and do laundry for old incontinent people? I don’t feel so bad for that woman being overwhelmed if she was just refusing to take advantage of all that amazing free help they seem to have. 

Agree with the first paragraph - the daughter presumed so much, that I'm sure her mother was always there for her, and it didn't occur to the daughter to even ask.  And with the second also, she was overwhelmed, but why not just say so?  She must have had expectations of herself that she was not reaching.  Maybe her own mother was really strong and took care of everyone without a problem.  

[RedbirdNelly]

I enjoyed seeing Timothy again, Shelagh and the doctor's outing and more of Sister Julianne. But did not like seeing 2 people bite of her Sister Julianne's head. She such a source of comfort to me. I'm glad this episode gave her more screen time.

I grew up watching Sound of Music once a year. I remember watching it the first time and laughing so hard at the nuns with the car parts. After VCR's were common, we had it on tape and enjoyed watching it whenever we wanted. 

[marypat57]

I remember seeing the Sound of Music in a theater (probably Radio City Music Hall) when my grandmother took me in 1966.  A few weeks later, as a very special treat, my mother took us to see the movie after mass one Sunday afternoon.  I thoroughly enjoyed seeing it both times. 
Of course, I watched on tv whenever it was on.  I even went to a Turner Classic Movies big screen classic showing of the film in a local theater.  It was really wonderful to see it on the big screen more than 50 years later.  While I was watching Ben Mankiewicz introducing the film and explaining the “extras” in the blu-ray version, I actually ordered the blu-ray edition from Amazon while I was waiting for he movie to start.

I loved seeing how special a movie outing was for Shelagh and Patrick, and also for Sister Julienne..

[Oosala]

On 4/27/2020 at 9:33 PM, LittleIggy said:

Guess I’m the only one who doesn’t need more Timothy scenes. I think he is a snooze.

No, you're not the only one.  Perfect = boring.  Or maybe I'm doing that "compare-and-contrast-to-my-own-life" thing again.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Oosala
close quotes

[Redrum]

40 minutes ago, Oosala said:

No, you're not the only one.  Perfect = boring.  Or maybe I'm doing that "compare-and-contrast-to-my-own-life" thing again.

Tim in small doses is fine bur yes, he is boring because he's so preciously perfect. I'd love to see a storyline where Tim realizes he doesn't exist simply to follow in his dad's footsteps.