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S11.E05: A Not So Merry Christmas

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What does Kody even think they’d be arrested for? In the eyes of the law he’s a married man with 3 outside baby mamas. Maybe there’s an issue with single moms claiming benefits when they should actually be receiving child support or something (CONJECTURE) but that is not the same as being persecuted for polygamy, unless you twist your brain into a pretzel to see it that way. 

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This show first came into our lives in 2010, amidst plenty of legal wrangling for marriages between same -sex couples to be either banned or recognized by individual states.  The IRS didn’t recognize same sex marriages until 2013- the same year Utah’s ban on same sex marriages was declared unconstitutional.

I think back then the powers that be at TLC were of the mind that they would add to their titillating line-up (Addicted, Sextuplets Take New York, Toddlers & Tiaras, 17 Kids and Counting, etc.) and get a head start on the controversy of what they thought might have been the relaxing of government regulations on marriage altogether.  Cue the Browns, fleeing from religious persecution over laws regulating marriage/cohabitation.  The day after the show aired, The Lehi police department announced in response to pressure that it was investigating the Browns for violating Utah’s anti-bigamy law.  The Utah County attorney also announced he was considering prosecution.

The cohabitation part was the Big Sticky Point.  Apparently, one could legally live with their 1 legal spouse and any number of individuals in the same home as long as they didn’t purport that any of those other individuals were their “spiritual spouse”.

I’m sure the scriptwriters and producers put a LOT of time and energy into making sure those early episodes included plenty of drama focused on the legal standings of polygamists and the struggles of being forced to maintain four separate houses...and all they ever wanted was just to be free to live all together as sister wives all married to one husband.

10 years later...
Obergefell v Hodges was decided and has been on the books for 5 years.  Pretty much crickets aside from the Brown’s being turned away from the SC on going any further to make bans on plural marriage unconstitutional as well.

So they’ve become “Reality” TV Stars, with fans and followers who either love or hate them, based on their scripts and antics on the show.  I’m guessing the majority of their combined income doesn’t come from Striving with Janelle, Real Estate commissions, LuLuOMGNo, the B&B, Robyn’s Closet or even book sales.  If anything, those ventures were or are propped up by the fan base from their #1 income - the show.

I doubt the sincerity of the whole lot...the way they portray themselves, badly acted, as cast members of a low budget soap opera.

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Does anyone remember that cheesy ad that Kody did to pimp out the las vegas homes in March 2019, where you could meet him if you came to their open house? Why do they think meeting Kody is every woman's dream? LOL.

So do you guys think Janelle quit or do you think the family decided to go with another realtor?

 

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2 hours ago, Kyanight said:

After the entire last season and what was said, this was the FIRST time EVER that St. George Utah was even mentioned.  Not ONCE did Kody say, "What do you ladies think of St. George?"  Nope.  Never mentioned.  Did someone duct tape his mouth shut when discussion was ongoing as to where they could move?  Because he could have said SOMETHING?  ANYTHING?  WHEN did he even GO to St. George to look at houses? Or did he pick out FOUR houses online that were suited for each wife? (Which takes a considerable amount of time to find ONE house suited for a particular family.)  So he spent time and effort on something and then never uttered a peep about it? We are talking about KODY here - who never hesitates to bring up ANY bizarre idea to his wives because it's like... HIS idea!!  The great Kody and all!   If Kody supposedly knows that his wives tremble in fear at the thought of living in Utah again - (and Kody seems to shiver along with them!) then WHY??  Why bother finding FOUR houses and then keeping mum?  Nope, not buying that ridiculous idea.

isn't the St. George real estate market pretty hot, or has been hot for the past couple years? Since he was wrong about the Vegas market, I think Kody was trying to save face by saying he originally wanted to move to St. George and had the houses "all picked out" in a last ditch effort to make himself sound like he knew what he was talking about after all. When we all know he didn't. 

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47 minutes ago, Saje81 said:

isn't the St. George real estate market pretty hot, or has been hot for the past couple years? Since he was wrong about the Vegas market, I think Kody was trying to save face by saying he originally wanted to move to St. George and had the houses "all picked out" in a last ditch effort to make himself sound like he knew what he was talking about after all. When we all know he didn't. 

That's a great theory, he may have been insinuating that LV was not his first choice but because of persecution ya know, he was not able to fulfill his dream.  Filming does not miss many events in Kodyworld and if he had legitimately gone to St. George to pick out houses, I find it hard to believe he would have done that without his usual fanfare and flourish.  

What has left me on the edge of my seat, 👀 is his proclaimed intention to return to Utah and fight the good fight by running for office.  They closed out last season with Kody officiating with his pointer at whiteboards, Kodysplaining to his captive audience his intentions to change the political climate and NOW was the time to unleash their equity in LV homes, then mid-episode it became a move to Flagstaff, without any further mention of his political intentions. 

Could it possibly be that those actually in the political arena let him know that he couldn't garner enough support for himself as a candidate to make it worthwhile?

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On 1/27/2020 at 2:56 PM, suzywallis said:

I wanted to slap her when she said, "it's a big dill."  It's not a pickle, Robyn.  It's DEAL. UGH.

 

I kept noticing how they say "idea." They take out a syllable so it's like "eye-dih".

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3 hours ago, suomi said:

I think it went down like this:

Kody talked to Robyn about the upcoming balloon payments on the LV loans and did some guesstimating about what a killing they would make because of their equity. 

She scoped out colleges for Day-un and decided that Flag was the way to go.

She kicked back while Kody sold the move to the others, silently planning how she would spend her windfall.

Then she got royally pissed off after she realized that she had been misinformed.

And I don't believe that Kody ever intended to move to St George but by saying that he can spice things up with a little persecution. Because, undoubtably, the entire Utah legislature suffers from sleep loss because Kody Brown and his harem "got away." Curses, foiled again!

The only reason St. George might have been a pick was because Robyn's parents live there, there are two universities there or near by.  I've been to St. George and it's not a bad place to live, plenty of stores and places to eat and outdoor things to do.  Housing is a little pricey, but cheaper than Flagstaff.  Your only a few hours away from Vegas and the airport.  But who would knowingly choose a place with brutal heat a good part of the year.  Flagstaff was a good pick weather wise, but not cost wise

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3 minutes ago, Pickleinthemiddle said:

The only reason St. George might have been a pick was because Robyn's parents live there, there are two universities there or near by.  I've been to St. George and it's not a bad place to live, plenty of stores and places to eat and outdoor things to do.  Housing is a little pricey, but cheaper than Flagstaff.  Your only a few hours away from Vegas and the airport.  But who would knowingly choose a place with brutal heat a good part of the year.  Flagstaff was a good pick weather wise, but not cost wise

I think St. George is beautiful - I love it there!   But I don't believe Kody picked out four houses and wanted to move there but never said a word to anyone about it.  That doesn't make sense.

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2 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I just remembered how much I enjoyed Robyn constantly injecting “sittin’ there” as she fussed at Kody and recounted his failings. 

OMG!!!!!  That drives me crazy.  "We were like sittin' there, like, pickin' out our eye boogers and the kids were like sittin' there like runnin' around the house.  But it was like no big dill."  I noticed her kids speaking like that too.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to let Robyn talk so much should be sent to live in Meri's caretaker cabin at the B & B and never allowed out.  Ever.  The VS undies must have some magical powers or something.  How Kody can stand to listen to her is beyond me.

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12 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

I thought they only paid on the loans' interest? If so, how would they have any equity in any of those houses?

I think - because of the real estate market in LV at that time - the homes were thought to be worth much more than what was owed on the loans. Unearned equity, but still equity.

(My understanding of this might be all wrong).

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20 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

I thought they only paid on the loans' interest? If so, how would they have any equity in any of those houses?

Exactly what I thought. How could they possibly think the "equity" in the houses would give them a windfall?

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7 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Yeah, I thought it sounded like something he came up with to make the women seem even more difficult and “closed-minded.” I mean, he may have known vaguely of some houses but I bet he never had them all lined up, whatever that would mean.

Even if he did have them all lined up, like the Big House idea it proves that he doesn't understand his wives or wives in general.  They like to have input in choosing or designing their own home.

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4 minutes ago, deirdra said:

Even if he did have them all lined up, like the Big House idea it proves that he doesn't understand his wives or wives in general.  They like to have input in choosing or designing their own home.

Well since he only played "Fantasy house finding"  (kind of like fantasy football I guess) the point is moot, anyway.  He could have picked out shacks or igloos or teepees since he picked them out but never told anyone about them.

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6 hours ago, Onceafan said:

So do you guys think Janelle quit or do you think the family decided to go with another realtor?

Could be a bit of both.  Maddie, Caleb & Axelbrush moved to North Carolina in January 2019, which would have been about the time Janelle gave up "trying" to sell the homes. 

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47 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

I thought they only paid on the loans' interest? If so, how would they have any equity in any of those houses?

Their equity would have come from what they mistakenly thought the houses were worth.  ie:--they paid in the range of $430,000 and hoped to sell at about $630,000, less real estate commissions & legal fees.  They didn't count on selling in the mid-$500's minus the cost of carrying the mortgage, taxes etc. for (in Christine's case) more than a year.

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On 1/27/2020 at 12:48 PM, Fostersmom said:

... She wasn't in on Kody's little secret and she apparently was too clueless to see they were asking too much for the Vegas...

Robyn may have a PHd in Cunning, Machinations, and Evil Manipulations, but she is an absolute idiot when it comes to business.  Put a banana in her mouth, Meri, for the sake of all of us.  ☹

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On 1/27/2020 at 10:25 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I think that praying at the same time every day was a good touch.  It just doesn't seem to be helping them with their discord all that much.  What about being longsuffering and a service to others.......?  lol 

Not sure if this was noticed/discussed yet, but did anyone else notice how Meri was not featured in the prayer time montage? 🤔

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12 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

What does Kody even think they’d be arrested for? In the eyes of the law he’s a married man with 3 outside baby mamas. Maybe there’s an issue with single moms claiming benefits when they should actually be receiving child support or something (CONJECTURE) but that is not the same as being persecuted for polygamy, unless you twist your brain into a pretzel to see it that way.

Meet Kody Brown, AKA Pretzel Brain

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On 1/27/2020 at 7:20 AM, Meowwww said:

So, questions.  
In the house plans someone here published from Reddit:

Seems that all of the wives, except Meri, only have one extra bedroom.  So where will the family stay?  Is there another level of bedrooms we don’t see?  Also Kody and his “my house” thing.  There’s the community kitchen and the community living room.  No private bedroom etc for him. Must be another level although it seems the basement is the garage. 

On 1/27/2020 at 8:48 AM, Sandy W said:

The plan I saw had Kody's kitchen, living, dining areas and an open loft with what looked like a bed up there.  I assumed on nights he stayed there alone, he would put on his Batman cape and fly up there as the plan didn't show a staircase

I saw a plan somewhere that included an entire second floor complete with bedrooms for the kids.  Even from the drawing outside you can see the second floor windows.  Each of their separate "homes" has a staircase and bedrooms upstairs.  It would make no sense to build what amounts to empty nester housing when there are still some kids at home, at least for the next few years.   

Here is the plan with both floors:

Sister-Wives-Kody-Brown-Blueprints.jpg

On 1/27/2020 at 10:40 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I must have missed the part about their houses being beat up.  The house that Janelle recently showed looked okay to me. 

Online the real estate photos if blown up showed lots of scratches on cabinets and walls with paint chipped plus floors that looked like they'd seen better days but you had to look closer to see it.

Edited by Yeah No
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12 hours ago, toodles said:

OMG!!!!!  That drives me crazy.  "We were like sittin' there, like, pickin' out our eye boogers and the kids were like sittin' there like runnin' around the house.  But it was like no big dill."  I noticed her kids speaking like that too.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to let Robyn talk so much should be sent to live in Meri's caretaker cabin at the B & B and never allowed out.  Ever.  The VS undies must have some magical powers or something.  How Kody can stand to listen to her is beyond me.

Yeah I don’t get it lol he cringes sometimes in my opinion when Christine talks lol and he made a face one episode when Janelle kind interrupted Robyn during her “rambles” lol 

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5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I saw a plan somewhere that included an entire second floor complete with bedrooms for the kids.  Even from the drawing outside you can see the second floor windows.  Each of their separate "homes" has a staircase and bedrooms upstairs.  It would make no sense to build what amounts to empty nester housing when there are still some kids at home, at least for the next few years.   

Here is the plan with both floors:

Sister-Wives-Kody-Brown-Blueprints.jpg

Online the real estate photos if blown up showed lots of scratches on cabinets and walls with paint chipped plus floors that looked like they'd seen better days but you had to look closer to see it.

Of course they didn’t touch anything up or call ZeroRez to clean their carpets.  Jerks. 

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13 hours ago, toodles said:

Whoever thought it was a good idea to let Robyn talk so much should be sent to live in Meri's caretaker cabin at the B & B and never allowed out.  Ever.  

I will never understand how Robyn became the fam'ly spokesperson.  Despite her very best evil machinations and manipulations, she was not, in fact, there from Day One.  She talks about the other wives' kids like she has known them her entire life and is privy to their unique personalities.  She constantly interjects herself into conversations about things that happened before she got her talons into Kody's weave.  How the other women just sit there and listen to her without smacking the cold sores off her lips is beyond me.   

 

11 hours ago, RubySoho said:

Not sure if this was noticed/discussed yet, but did anyone else notice how Meri was not featured in the prayer time montage? 🤔

Oh, yes.  Very subtle, there, TLC.  I mean if Meri wasn't asked to participate there would be no true footage, but the producers could've been like, "hey, Mere, just go stand over there and pretend to pray, we gotta get a shot of you in this montage."  But nope.  

Edited by laurakaye
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39 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

How the other women just sit there and listen to her without smacking the cold sores off her lips is beyond me. 

LOL!!

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22 hours ago, A-Lo said:

I'm new to this show and still trying to figure things out.  If that's even possible.  My biggest questions is why, if they all had homes they liked in Las Vegas and their kids were settled there, did they up and move to Flagstaff without having a plan...beyond setting up each family in a rental...in place?  I wouldn't do that with my family alone so I can't imagine doing it with four!

All you need to know about watching this show is that trying to "figure things out" is NOT possible.  The closest you can come is to look at a situation, figure out the WORST possible option, and sit back and wait for the Browns to go with that choice.

Welcome to the insanity.

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20 hours ago, KnoxForPres said:

 I got engaged last year (first time- 39 at the time-anything can happen!) 

Congratulations!   

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6 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I will never understand how Robyn became the fam'ly spokesperson. 

I cannot stand Robyn's overly concerned looking face whenever she shares her opinions.  Ugh.  

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9 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I cannot stand Robyn's overly concerned looking face whenever she shares her opinions.  Ugh.  

 

This^^^. the brows knit and the head tilts slightly up when she voices her concerns that she just wants what's best for everybody.  All the time, trying to conceal her smirk over her knowledge that what she wants is a foregone conclusion.

 

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22 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I cannot stand Robyn's overly concerned looking face whenever she shares her opinions.  Ugh.  

Same here... I'm so sick of her sighing and groaning about every damn thing.

She was a single mom with no money and serious debt when she joined the fambly and now she's sitting in a million dollar home with brand new vehicle in the driveway but it's such a hard life.

She's definitely the dumbest of the bunch and I don't know how the others can stand to listen to her bitchy whiney ass..... Christine is dumb as a fucking stump but Robyn is quickly taking her place in the corner with the dunce hat.

She acted like if she wants XYZ amount for her house then that's what she should get regardless of the market and reality..... I wanted to jump into the TV and smack some sense into her!  😤

Edited by Joan of Argh · Reason: SpellingK
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1 hour ago, Joan of Argh said:

Same here... I'm so sick of her sighing and groaning about every damn thing.

She was a single mom with no money and serious debt when she joined the fambly and now she's sitting in a million dollar home with brand new vehicle in the driveway but it's such a hard life.

She's definitely the dumbest of the bunch and I don't know how the others can stand to listen to her bitchy whiney ass..... Christine is dumb as a fucking stump but Robyn is quickly taking her place in the corner with the dunce hat.

She acted like if she wants XYZ amount for her house then that's what she should get regardless of the market and reality..... I wanted to jump into the TV and smack some sense into her!  😤

This is not an uncommon sentiment voiced by people listing their homes.  Take for instance, someone living in a subdivision home where there are 12 basic models of homes.  A comparative market analysis is almost a science, you use the same floor plan and subtract or add for improvements and time factor adjustments and a good realtor can give a very accurate projection of what a house will sell for.

 I have walked away from potential listings because the vendor stood firm on the concept, "I need $xxxx for my home because the new one I want to purchase is $xxxxx", when in reality, the value of their house is $xxx.

Edited by Sandy W
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1 hour ago, Joan of Argh said:

Same here... I'm so sick of her sighing and groaning about every damn thing.

She acted like if she wants XYZ amount for her house then that's what she should get regardless of the market and reality..... I wanted to jump into the TV and smack some sense into her!  😤

 

But Kody promised !!

you will have to insert your own "Robyn" voice. The one in my head is long ago when she kinda starts baby talking about "favorite wives..."

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1 hour ago, Sandy W said:

This is not an uncommon sentiment voiced by people listing their homes.  Take for instance, someone living in a subdivision home where there are 12 basic models of homes.  A comparative market analysis is almost a science, you use the same floor plan and subtract or add for improvements and time factor adjustments and a good realtor can give a very accurate projection of what a house will sell for.

 I have walked away from potential listings because the vendor stood firm on the concept, "I need $xxxx for my home because the new one I want to purchase is $xxxxx", when in reality, the value of their house is $xxx.

Sorry, double post...I don't know how to delete.

Edited by Sandy W

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Just now, Sandy W said:

 

Here is the solution for these so-called sister wives:  Each buy your own homes - preferably states away from each other.. have your own traditions.. and don't give Kody-ass a key.  You'll all be better off (Oh, but will this be monogamy?? SO WHAT!).  Stand UP women, get away from that egocentrical asshat they supposedly love.  AND NO MORE CHILDREN.. JC it's the Duggars all over again.  They are so boring.

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21 hours ago, suomi said:

I think - because of the real estate market in LV at that time - the homes were thought to be worth much more than what was owed on the loans. Unearned equity, but still equity.

(My understanding of this might be all wrong).

Like someone else stated.  They waited to long to put the houses on the market and should have been one at a time until they sold.  Plus for just plain homes.  They were asking to much.  The only one who got anywhere near what they wanted for theirs was Robyn.

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1 hour ago, Joan of Argh said:

Same here... I'm so sick of her sighing and groaning about every damn thing.

She was a single mom with no money and serious debt when she joined the fambly and now she's sitting in a million dollar home with brand new vehicle in the driveway but it's such a hard life.

She's definitely the dumbest of the bunch and I don't know how the others can stand to listen to her bitchy whiney ass..... Christine is dumb as a fucking stump but Robyn is quickly taking her place in the corner with the dunce hat.

She acted like if she wants XYZ amount for her house then that's what she should get regardless of the market and reality..... I wanted to jump into the TV and smack some sense into her!  😤

I'd be sticking pins into a Voodoo doll with Robyn's witch face, if I was her sister wife.  She is a sneaky, conniving, cold, calculating, dumbass bitch.

18 minutes ago, Pickleinthemiddle said:

Like someone else stated.  They waited to long to put the houses on the market and should have been one at a time until they sold.  Plus for just plain homes.  They were asking to much.  The only one who got anywhere near what they wanted for theirs was Robyn.

Was hers the six-bedroom one?  Pity she got the most $. 

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I think it was Robyn's house that had the commitment ceremony pavilion as well as a jungle gym setup in the backyard.  Could be that was just what someone else was looking for. 

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On 1/27/2020 at 11:28 AM, Kyanight said:

Maybe because the cost of living is extremely HIGH in Flagstaff and there are more wives and children than just Robyn and her own.  If her son wasn't able to handle college on his own somewhere than he could have lived at home in ANY state and attended a nearby community college.  If he IS able to handle going to school somewhere.. then let him fly.  Maybe she could have encouraged her son to apply to places where the cost of living is reasonable.  Not to mention who is paying the out of state fees?

I have a son with Aspergers.  And I get it.  All kids are definitely different with different struggles and skills.  But as a parent it helps to guide them as they grow (like a parent teaching a kid to ride a bike) and see what they can do, instead of assuming they CAN'T do different things they have never tried.  Robyn strikes me as a mother who holds her children back instead of encouraging them to fly.  They've shown that clearly with how Areola had to be spoon fed when she was something like 3 1/2 - and how all these special things need to be done to get her to go to bed... even though it's in bed with her mother.

They're HER kids - she can parent however she wants.  But there are OTHER kids involved.

I thought I remembered reading ASU has a special program for Asberger students. 

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The title of this episode is ridiculous.  They are SOOOOOO melodramatic!  Like their Christmas was completely ruined simply because Kody showed them his plans.  Which, by the way, may or may NOT have actually been shown on Christmas Eve.  They could claim ANY day of filming is Christmas eve, in THIS soap opera.   Life is what you make of it.  You can focus on spending time with family, having a great meal, seeing your loved ones enjoy their gifts... or you can shove all that away and brood about Kody and his idea for one house and let it entirely ruin your Christmas 2019.  Dumb.

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2 hours ago, Sandy W said:

I think it was Robyn's house that had the commitment ceremony pavilion as well as a jungle gym setup in the backyard.  Could be that was just what someone else was looking for. 

Robyn's house definitely had the best yard. It was well landscaped and had a lot of brick paver patio features.  Christine's was the next best landscaped back yard but I think the inside of her house was more beat up and also she was close to the road and entry gate so I think that is why hers sold last.  

2 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

The title of this episode is ridiculous.  They are SOOOOOO melodramatic!  Like their Christmas was completely ruined simply because Kody showed them his plans.  Which, by the way, may or may NOT have actually been shown on Christmas Eve.  They could claim ANY day of filming is Christmas eve, in THIS soap opera.  

To be kind to the crew that films their show it would be nice if they DIDN'T film on the actual day of Christmas.  I'm sure the crew would all like to be home with their families for the holiday.

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9 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

hey are SOOOOOO melodramatic!  Like their Christmas was completely ruined simply because Kody showed them his plans.  Which, by the way, may or may NOT have actually been shown on Christmas Eve. 

No, it wasn't filmed on Christmas.  Reality shows give their crews time off for holidays.  Plus Maddie let it slip the "big announcement" day for her pregnancy was in January so I'd bet dollars to donuts it was weeks after Christmas. These people cannot keep their lies straight.

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I thought it was hilarious how Janelle was the only wife showing interest in his house plans and she kept saying that it looks like a "pipe dream*  

I know what she meant but I kept laughing and wondering.... Is pot legal in Arizona?  

It's legal here and I'd need a toke if I had to listen to Kody and his half baked plans.

 

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