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S12.E06: Praxeus

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A couple or more of things I thought about regarding the episode:

- If the cure was made for humans, which made sense cause Earth, what about the Zygon refugees? It also wasn't clear if the cure would fix the birds

- What I missed in this episode were news reports on what was happening as well as some mention (from the news or our characters) of how various countries and their governments were responding to what seemed to be a growing global crisis. All we got was a report on the missing astronaut. Other than our characters saying so, there didn't seem to be a bigger sense of bad things happening around the world

- Why didn't Suki's people at least get a name?

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12 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I personally appreciate the sentiment and you reminding some of these folks how silly their complaints are.. But let's call a spade a spade here.. This message doesn't ring half their "oh political correctness run amok/ SJW/ feminism /forced diversity/ down my throat" bells when its a straight white guy leading the way and women and minorities in a more "appropriate " place this show has the gall to talk about some of the same issues Dr. Who has always touched on... But now its a woman saving the day... And two minorities helping her... Its too much for some and it's the same complaints for just about any show that dares to put up POC or Women or members of the LGBTQIA community in spaces that were previously only appropriate for white cis males... As to why that is... I dunno.. Bit I seen enough comments on enough different shows with the same complaints to notice who's complaining about what... 

 

Frankly this is offensive.  How exactly do you know the demographics of each and every commenter on here, assuming for sake of argument that such knowledge is even relevant?  And how precisely have you gone back and cross-checked their complaints across different seasons of this show and as compared to other seasons of other shows?  

If you have a different point of view fine, but this should be a place where people can safely express their opinions without being personally attacked or vilified.  It's lazy and insulting to respond to ideas you don't agree with by insinuating that the speaker is simply a bigot.  

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On 2/2/2020 at 8:35 PM, Cobb Salad said:

Unless I missed it everyone in the episode is touching potentially deadly stuff and not wearing anything to protect themselves.  

Ryan did use a... piece of permeable cloth... to wrap the one bird and put it in his backpack. And then dissect it in the open without gloves or a mask, if I remember correctly.

On 2/3/2020 at 12:41 AM, AnimeMania said:

The show picked up the pacing so that people don't have time to think about the plot holes. Everybody seems to think this makes it more like the Doctor Who they remember.

It certainly kept things hopping, and held my interest. But I became a fan in the early 80s, so the Doctor Who I remember had people standing around and talking to each other through most of four to six half-hour episodes. And monsters made out of tinfoil and spare tupperware.

Edited by Bruinsfan
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First of all, that infection, with people getting those...things growing on their skin...it just freaked me the crap out. Like, my skin is crawling just thinking about it, I had to turn away from the screen a few times. Just so gross and nasty, I cant even! Ugh! 

Anyway, my personal nightmare fuel aside, I did enjoy this episode quite a lot. The alien threat of the week was pretty good, I didnt see Suki being an alien coming at all, the Doctor got to do some science stuff, and we had a pretty solid supporting cast of characters, and the fam all got some good moments to shine. Its taken a bit, but I think that this season they seem to have struck a better balance at having the three companions and the Doctor, giving them all stuff to do and character moments, while last season the Tardis seemed a bit crowded at times, like they didnt know what to do with so many people. I really liked Yaz using some of her cop training and some investigating (even if she didnt get to find a new planet) and Graham had some really nice moments with the cop dealing with his marriage troubles. I loved that part on the beach when they were talking about being married and how wonderful it could be and how hard it was to lose someone, and his face got rather wistful. You could tell right away he was thinking of Grace, and didnt even have to say anything. 

The couple was fun, and yes I am thrilled that they survived and we didnt have to have either a "we reconciled just before death how dramatic" or a "queer person dies suddenly how tragic" story. Just let people be happy for three seconds damn it! The actors, especially the ex cop, did a great job of having a lot of personality in just one episode, and they worked well with the rest of the cast. 

Yeah, did no one notice the other researcher was killed by the death birds? Was he an alien? Even if he was, shouldn't that be addressed? The poor guy just freaking died! The vlogger girl also seemed to take her best friends horrific death pretty well, picking up an idea for a new show like a day after her friend died. 

I loved the look on Sukis face when the Doctor was calling her out for using the Earth as her own personal petrie dish, like she was thinking "You know when you say it like that...we actually might be the assholes here." 

Really, the biggest flaw of the episode is that it has the misfortune to come after both a really fun period piece story that I really loved, and then, most notably, a huge, game changer of an episode full of big shocking surprises and twists and turns that will probably have repercussions throughout the franchise that could change the entire course of this series run that basically made my head spin about thirty times. After all of that, this episode, while solid and enjoyable, cant compete.

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6 hours ago, truther said:

Frankly this is offensive.  How exactly do you know the demographics of each and every commenter on here, assuming for sake of argument that such knowledge is even relevant?  And how precisely have you gone back and cross-checked their complaints across different seasons of this show and as compared to other seasons of other shows?  

If you have a different point of view fine, but this should be a place where people can safely express their opinions without being personally attacked or vilified.  It's lazy and insulting to respond to ideas you don't agree with by insinuating that the speaker is simply a bigot.  

I won't get too into the weeds here.. I'll say this.. Wasn't just this site I was talking about.. In fact this site has been a haven for me compared to some of the other forums I visit... I've found much more thoughtful and engaging discussion and yes disagreement here.. And theres  really not much more you can ask for in discourse. 

But yes I have poured over posters comments about other shows and I have seen them consistently complain about "agendas" and I have challenged them when I saw discrepancies in how they viewed the actions of certain shows and characters to others in similar situations... I've plainly asked or discovered demographic info.. Now could all these folks be liars.. Could it be some secret Russian bot ploy... I guess.. Or some intricate false flag operation... Or a bunch of self-hating marginalized peoples... Hell it could be exactly who I believe it is,  but they're just playing around.. Riding the wave of hate thanks to the "anonymous" nature of the Internet... I still gotta read it and so does every single person who looks like me, those who thinks like me, those who come from marginalized groups and its a constant reminder that they aren't wanted... They aren't seen.. That when we are seen it should be under certain circumstances lest we upset the apple care.. And that we are only here at the largess of others... We're affirmative action hires... Tokens... Box checkers... Results of some agenda.. PC run amok..  I can't even tell you how many times I've read something to the effect of " I miss the days when it was the best actor for the job and not casting trying to be woke" it's telling that so many of the terms we use whose primary function is/ was to combat inequality,  to try and level a playing field that started off as a damn pyramid... Have all become words used with disdain... Affirmative Action... Feminism... Woke... Political Correctness... Social Justice Warrior to name a few... Are there extreme and ridiculous examples of these terms yes... Are there people who self identify with these terms and are insufferable... Oh yeah... But they are a very small minority and their power to really create change is minimal... 

I def wrote more than I planned so forgive me... And I know its not exactly specific to the episode so Mods forgive me 

You said its lazy and insulting to cast a differing opinion as bigoted.. Well for one I don't believe I've ever called a person on this site a bigot.. I've challenged ppl on their views and they me.. My comment was more general as an overview of what I've seen everywhere in regards to diversity on tv generally.. In genre television/media especially and The 13th doctor specifically... If you aren't what I listed.. If you watch the show and find out heavy handed and you look at other episodes and don't feel the same.. If the fact that the show itself is more diverse isn't making you notice storylines and story beats that maybe didn't register as pushing an agenda.. Then I'm not speaking about you... 

I'm talking about ppl who see a woman character do something and comment that its some kind of in your face feminism... 

I find it lazy and insulting that my concerns about how fandoms react to a more diverse landscape are shot down without any effort to see my differing opinion... But we all soldier on,  I just ask that in the future you try to think of conscious and unconscious bias when reacting to tv shows and movies and how they inform how you consume it... I will continue to do the same... 

Sorry everyone for the spiel... 

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On 2/2/2020 at 10:12 PM, angora said:

liked Yaz staying behind to investigate the alien lair (and laughed when she was all, "don't freak out, but I followed a teleport to an alien planet," to the Doctor,)

In DotP, Yaz defied the Doctor to follow her GrandMa . Reminded me of a two year old staring at you while she absolutely disobeys whatever you told her not to do. (Notice the STARE Jodi gives her as they part). The character trait of her 'wanting more" is being developed despite what the Internet Shakespeares whine about. She wanted to find an alien world even after the trauma of the Spyfall/Kassavian abduction. Ryan showed the same nonchalance about being teleported away since back during last season.  (Not sure, but I saw him shrug off a sudden teleportation in "The Witchfinders")

I got that they used the Cap'n Jack interludes to introduce the companions to him before he meets the Doctor, a la The Empty Child. This meeting cleared of him meeting 4 "strangers" at once; when they meet again, he can concentrate on the Doctor - good planning ahead to a scene we'll see  several episodes hence.

It's one thing to criticize a show, but it's another thing to not look for, or notice something, and then mitch-n-boan about its absence.

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Like a lot of people have said, this was a pretty good episode following in the wake of a super provocative one. I will have to go back and rewatch it. I kept getting distracted by details: 

"OMG, how can they set up the camp in the middle of the garbage. Doesn't that stink? Ewww. It's still daylight, you can find somewhere cleaner to camp."

"Hey, what about the guy we left watching birds on the beach? Doesn't anyone wonder where he went?"

"Umm, don't follow the alien in the gas mask home, Yaz! At least hold your breath! It's an alien planet. Is there air? You don't know! (thanks GalaxyQuest)"

"Why do you always park so far away? You could save a lot of running if you would park closer."

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Late to the party, just want to say that, as a "message" episode, thought this one worked a lot better than Orphan 55. More fun, nice Hitchcock callback with the swarming birds, great guest characters. 

It's a little weird, alternating arc-heavy episodes with episodes that ignore the arc completely, but I can live with that.

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Ratings for overnight and consolidated 7-days:

Overnights: 3.97 million viewers, ranked 4th for the night

Consolidated 7-days: 5.223 million viewers, ranked 28th for the week.

28-days figures when they come in in ~3 weeks

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On 2/2/2020 at 6:10 PM, Prower said:

 

Glad this didn't turn out to be a case of bury your gays (warning TVtropes).

 

They survived and got to kiss on screen. I am calling it a win.

 

It took me awhile to get around to this episode, but I thought it was okay. I love the sweeping locations and I really liked the astronaut and his husband. I liked the mystery but then found myself somewhat underwhelmed in the end. In part, it is hard to get super excited about bacteria, though the makeup/shell looking skin growths were cool. The birds were ultimately the creepiest part to me.

But in the end, I didn't feel like it was one I would want to watch again. Coming off of Fugitive of Judoon (which was so fantastic), it was hard to get into this one.

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On 2/14/2020 at 2:03 PM, DanaK said:

Ratings for overnight and consolidated 7-days:

Overnights: 3.97 million viewers, ranked 4th for the night

Consolidated 7-days: 5.223 million viewers, ranked 28th for the week.

28-days figures when they come in in ~3 weeks

28-day: 5.677 million viewers

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On 2/5/2020 at 11:18 PM, tennisgurl said:

First of all, that infection, with people getting those...things growing on their skin...it just freaked me the crap out. Like, my skin is crawling just thinking about it, I had to turn away from the screen a few times. Just so gross and nasty, I cant even! Ugh! 

This!  So much.  I genuinely don't recall Who being so gross in the past.  But maybe I'm just blocking those episodes from my memory because while I love SciFi, I hate the "horror" genre and I tend to psychologically "look away" whenever Who tiptoes too close to that line.

That being said, in the UK this *IS* considered to be a kids' show, right?  If so, I find it surprising how much "nightmare fuel" they pumped into this episode.

Edited by WatchrTina

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13 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

That being said, in the UK this *IS* considered to be a kids' show, right?  If so, I find it surprising how much "nightmare fuel" they pumped into this episode.

Family entertainment, rather than a kids show. Young children wouldn't be expected to watch it, and certainly not on their own. Doctor Who airs mid-evening - in a later time-slot currently than it traditionally held. So no, it isn't a kids show.

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On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 7:06 PM, WatchrTina said:

That being said, in the UK this *IS* considered to be a kids' show, right?  If so, I find it surprising how much "nightmare fuel" they pumped into this episode.

It's famously described as being a show that (younger) children would watch from "behind the sofa", so there's always been an element of horror to Doctor Who. I can confirm this from personal experience of watching at age 7 or so!

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I remember I was horrified as a preteen by Romana being menaced by some cat-sized alien spider jumping out of a fruit and biting her face. In retrospect it probably looked like a refugee from The Muppet Show, but early 1980s me was traumatized.

Edited by Bruinsfan
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All right. Time to take a break from all those stories about a deadly virus sweeping across the globe and killing people. How about a little escapism, like a nice episode of Doctor Who, and--

... seriously?

Edited by Eolivet
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4 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

All right. Time to take a break from all those stories about a deadly virus sweeping across the globe and killing people. How about a little escapism, like a nice episode of Doctor Who, and--

... seriously?

Air date: February 2, 2020
Feels like years ago.

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19 hours ago, Eolivet said:

All right. Time to take a break from all those stories about a deadly virus sweeping across the globe and killing people. How about a little escapism, like a nice episode of Doctor Who, and--

... seriously?

At least coronavirus isn’t causing people to explode into dust. As a big reader of Science Fiction, particularly pandemic stories, I find myself these days occasionally thinking of various sci fi pandemic scenarios and thinking, “at least that’s not happening”

The major problem I had with this episode was there was no sense that the world outside the team and their new friends, including the media, was noticing things going wrong, except for the astronaut crashing. The whole thing just felt too insular. The Doctor should at least have been conferring with MI6. But I did rewatch the episode in full a few days ago and generally enjoyed it, unlike the first time I watched it

Edited by DanaK
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