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S24.E04: Week 4: Cleveland, Ohio

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Unlike most here, I think Victoria F. is attractive to look at, but of course she is in no way at all attractive as a human being. There’s a chance that some of her ridiculous overwrought reaction to Chase BroCountry was because he was a one-night stand, and in Bachelor universe people are only ever supposed to hook up for looooove. Maybe the producers told her to make it a “relationship” because otherwise she wouldn’t be considered worthy of being on the show. In the real world I don’t know if anyone cares anymore about people casually hooking up, but it doesn’t fit the Bachelor Brand, and it’s possible Peter would have felt obligated to act judgmental about it. The amount of crying and apologizing fit the Bachelor standard for a one-night stand, but was way over the top for a former relationship.

I also think Peter & Victoria F. are a decent couple – they’re both quite stupid, very childish, and drama queens who run away when things get difficult for their little brains. They deserve each other and they really did seem to have fun with the amusement park stuff. Those scenes had the most natural-looking joy of any on the show so far. She fits better with him than just about any of the other women (that’s not meant as a compliment to her or to Peter).

The pageant queens are on a different social manipulation level from him and can play him like a fiddle, the strong ones and the smart ones are certainly already sick of him, so who’s left?  Maybe the lawyer he met before the show is okay with having him around like a cute toy. Her work days could be filled with over-confident alpha male lawyers, so he could be an appealing break from that. McKenna seems sweet-ish and dumb-ish but she’s not a shiny enough object to grab his attention. I kind of think she’s pretty sometimes, eyebrows and all, but that’s probably because she looks like a real human being and not a mannikin or makeup model. (On a related note, I tried dipping into UK series Love Island recently, and I seriously found myself struggling to figure out what half the women actually look like – it’s all massive fake eyelashes, gigantic inflated perma-duckface lips, and layers of make-up.)

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20 minutes ago, Dirker said:

Unlike most here, I think Victoria F. is attractive to look at, but of course she is in no way at all attractive as a human being. There’s a chance that some of her ridiculous overwrought reaction to Chase BroCountry was because he was a one-night stand, and in Bachelor universe people are only ever supposed to hook up for looooove. Maybe the producers told her to make it a “relationship” because otherwise she wouldn’t be considered worthy of being on the show. In the real world I don’t know if anyone cares anymore about people casually hooking up, but it doesn’t fit the Bachelor Brand, and it’s possible Peter would have felt obligated to act judgmental about it. The amount of crying and apologizing fit the Bachelor standard for a one-night stand, but was way over the top for a former relationship.

There's so much that I don't understand about this show.  First, if Victoria and Chase were just a ONS, why the *hell* would she mention it to the show before going on?

And if she didn't mention it, but then saw him at the concert and decided to tell Peter then, why the *hell* would she tell him?

If it was just a ONS and Victoria told the show, that's crazy.
If it was just a ONS and Victoria decided to confess to Peter, that's also crazy, it's like desperately wanting a dramatic storyline.

The only way any of this makes sense to me is if Victoria and Chase had a real relationship, and the producers asked her about past relationships, and then Victoria told them.  And then the producers decided to screw her over over it.

Is Chase "famous" enough that Peter would actually know who he is and care?  There's no way that line about having him sing at Peter's wedding was "real", was it?  Why the hell would Peter have said that?

2 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

No charm, no swag, no sexy, still built like a boy, can't make a decision, can't make conversation, and so sheltered he has a problem relating to anyone who didn't grow up like him; he's just simple. He doesn't feel like a grown man. I would like to apologize to all the previous bachelors I clowned, included Colton, because at least Colton looked good walking around shirtless, wanted a committed relationship, and knew what he wanted. Peter has made all of the previous bachelors look better. 

LOL.  yup.

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17 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Is Chase "famous" enough that Peter would actually know who he is and care?  There's no way that line about having him sing at Peter's wedding was "real", was it?  Why the hell would Peter have said that?

Peter seemed surprised (in a good way) when she knew the words to Chase's songs.... then he found out why, LOL!

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38 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Peter seemed surprised (in a good way) when she knew the words to Chase's songs.... then he found out why, LOL!

I was so scared that the song was ABOUT Victoria or something, damn!

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If Peter was honest about all the time he spends line dancing, then it's probably not surprising that he knew who Chase is. I've never heard of him (although I guess I saw him on Survivor), though.

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Kelsey looks like Jeffree Star to me.

 

I thought that leaving the "Kobe!" at the end was appropriate. It was an organic moment that happened while shooting baskets, and coincidentally aired the day after his passing. Not in poor taste at all, and I'm glad it was left in. I live in LA, so it's been a particularly sad week with memorials and tributes everywhere, including a big basket outside the Staples Center with a sign on it that says "You know what to do" ❤️

Edited by MoonMountain
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4 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

No charm, no swag, no sexy, still built like a boy, can't make a decision, can't make conversation, and so sheltered he has a problem relating to anyone who didn't grow up like him; he's just simple. He doesn't feel like a grown man.

 

I will give him this, that he has an actual profession. Although I simply cannot deal with how often it is referenced, both directly and obliquely, but he does have a real career. 

I totally agree that he cannot relate to anyone who didn't grow up as he did. Far too many people grow up in less than idyllic circumstances, and even those with intact families do not always have the childhood he seems to have had. I think it's wonderful that his parents are still in love and also deeply love their children. However, parents who sob this much over their adult son, and cry and applaud him on tv for having had sex four times in a windmill with essentially a stranger, are going way overboard, in my opinion. (Maybe he became a pilot because his parents are the definition of helicopter parenting). I don't feel that he would choose a woman whose childhood was tough, because he really can never understand her and may subconsciously look down on her. He's going to want the picture-perfect family with all the in-laws. 

I'm unspoiled and I hope I'm wrong. 

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23 minutes ago, Arkay said:

I will give him this, that he has an actual profession. Although I simply cannot deal with how often it is referenced, both directly and obliquely, but he does have a real career. 

He has a real career....today.   Rachel was a lawyer and so was Andi.   Didn’t last once they had a taste of fame.  

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On 1/28/2020 at 4:19 PM, leocadia said:

Is there a large Polish community in Cleveland? 

Yes, there is.  There are quite a few different ethnic communities in Cleveland, and most, if not all of them, have street festivals at least once a year.

In spite of the bad rap Cleveland gets, it really is a nice place to live.  The culture and the people are great.  Our only problems are the weather and the Browns.

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Having grown up in Michigan, Cedar Point was our go-to amusement park.  Every summer we'd go down and, no lie, the wait for the latest, greatest roller coaster was a minimum of two hours.  One year we didn't get down there until the last week in August and you almost got to walk on the rides.  I guess half the kids were back in school by then and the park was not so busy.  All those hours wasted in line all those years  If only we had figured it out much sooner.  But I highly recommend it.  

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6 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I can't help but wonder if Victoria and Chase were in a relationship or if it was a one night stand.  Each has a different version, so someone is lying. 

I'm guessing Victoria/Chase was more than a one-night stand but less than a true relationship. 

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

There's so much that I don't understand about this show.  First, if Victoria and Chase were just a ONS, why the *hell* would she mention it to the show before going on?

And if she didn't mention it, but then saw him at the concert and decided to tell Peter then, why the *hell* would she tell him?

If it was just a ONS and Victoria told the show, that's crazy.
If it was just a ONS and Victoria decided to confess to Peter, that's also crazy, it's like desperately wanting a dramatic storyline.

The only way any of this makes sense to me is if Victoria and Chase had a real relationship, and the producers asked her about past relationships, and then Victoria told them.  And then the producers decided to screw her over over it.

Is Chase "famous" enough that Peter would actually know who he is and care?  There's no way that line about having him sing at Peter's wedding was "real", was it?  Why the hell would Peter have said that?

LOL.  yup.

Reality Steve said that as soon as Victoria F's involvement with the season became known, people were emailing him that she'd either dated or hooked up or been involved with Chase Rice in some way. Apparently, RS gets sent lots of info about contestants once they are attached to the show, and the Chase Rice news was not some closely-guarded secret between the two of them. RS didn't think much about the info at first as he hears a lot of things about many of them. It only sparked his attention again once he learned that Chase was going to be a musical guest on the season and saw that Chase was following Victoria F on Instagram. Maybe Chase follows every woman he has a one nighter with on social media (it's often how celebrities meet groupies these days) and Victoria is exaggerating their involvement. Or, it was more than that and he may have his own reasons now to downplay their past.

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I have a theory. Did Chase Rice perchance perform at...Stagecoach?!? Perhaps Victoria and Chase were like Blake and half the girls in Paradise situation. Like how Blake was sliding into their DMs for months and all of these girls thought they were dating him long distance but they only actually physically met up and hooked up one time. 

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8 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

No charm, no swag, no sexy, still built like a boy, can't make a decision, can't make conversation, and so sheltered he has a problem relating to anyone who didn't grow up like him; he's just simple. He doesn't feel like a grown man. I would like to apologize to all the previous bachelors I clowned, included Colton, because at least Colton looked good walking around shitless, wanted a committed relationship, and knew what he wanted. Peter has made all of the previous bachelors look better. 

 

Is that a new euphemism for being a virgin?

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His skinny legs and his super skinny pants / jeans do nothing for me.  It's not hot to me at all!   Maybe I'm way behind the times with this fashion but it's just soo… ughhh.

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Being Grocery Store Joe and Kendall broke up, is it too late to replace Peter with him?

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2 hours ago, EllenB said:

Is that a new euphemism for being a virgin?

LOL I meant shirtless. I was trying to give Colton a compliment and apologize for all the mean things I said about him!

Colton, you are so much better than wimpy peter

 

Edited by dirtypop90
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5 hours ago, Arkay said:

I will give him this, that he has an actual profession. Although I simply cannot deal with how often it is referenced, both directly and obliquely, but he does have a real career. 

I totally agree that he cannot relate to anyone who didn't grow up as he did. Far too many people grow up in less than idyllic circumstances, and even those with intact families do not always have the childhood he seems to have had. I think it's wonderful that his parents are still in love and also deeply love their children. However, parents who sob this much over their adult son, and cry and applaud him on tv for having had sex four times in a windmill with essentially a stranger, are going way overboard, in my opinion. (Maybe he became a pilot because his parents are the definition of helicopter parenting). I don't feel that he would choose a woman whose childhood was tough, because he really can never understand her and may subconsciously look down on her. He's going to want the picture-perfect family with all the in-laws. 

I'm unspoiled and I hope I'm wrong. 

I believe his dad is also a pilot and that’s why he became one. The problem is peter having a job as a pilot still doesn’t make him desirable enough for me to believe these beauty queens want him given everything he has working against him. And I would be surprised if he’s still working for delta a year from now. 
 

It’s odd. I think they harp on his career to make him seem more grown up, and it should, but it doesn’t. I still see a sixteen year old. And almost all of the women just seem like too much for him. Like he just wants a girl that just giggles and doesn’t have much of anything to say except “life’s been great!” “I love my parents!” 
 

 

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3 hours ago, Dirker said:

Unlike most here, I think Victoria F. is attractive to look at, but of course she is in no way at all attractive as a human being.

She might employ the Jessica Rabbit defense:  she isn't bad, she's just drawn that way.  But Victoria F, Victoria P, Alayah, Hannah Ann and a few of the other rather obvious late-round hopefuls are walking, talking examples of the social media tail wagging the real-life dog.  If you're of a certain age you may use emojis liberally, sparingly or not at all.  The generation of women we're seeing onscreen actually regard them as 1-to-1 matches for their own real-life emotions.  A laugh, a smile, a tear.  Red notification circles and likes are the coins of the realm.  It would be like using a tray of water colors and never combining any of the hues.

Occasionally I mention a VHS copy of a 2004 Bachelor episode (ironically featuring another pilot with the slicked-back blonde hair) that I found when I digitally converted some tapes.  That was the last gasp of the pre-HDTV era and video editing and production was a different animal indeed.  In order to convey a flashy visual style they used literal flashes - every scene change included a few blinding frames of white light to dazzle the eye and cause it involuntarily to refocus on the next image or scene.  This technique was also used to a ridiculous and numbing extent in advertising of the day.

The 2004 Bachelor may as well have been the 1954 Bachelor.  Everyone looked mature and confident - even if they weren't.  Grooming didn't involve 2 hours of applying war paint.  Subtlety in language, emotion, movement, etc. was rife.  These people were flirting like mad, not just 'spending time' and tossing out canned lines - their own or scripted.

Contrast this with the current crop of blank-faced Bachelorettes who are either at an emotional peak (WOOOO!) or in an emotional Death Valley (tears, tantrums).  There are no in betweens.  There are are no feminine wiles, merely animalistic latching-on mating rituals.

There seems to be a generational belief that emotionally-charged scearios are a license to go round the houses in actually addressing the situation.  Victoria F tried all the dodges:  'This is intense'...'I don't know what to say'...etc.

18 minutes ago, Arkay said:

I don't feel that he would choose a woman whose childhood was tough, because he really can never understand her and may subconsciously look down on her. He's going to want the picture-perfect family with all the in-laws. 

Let us not forget the opening vignette - Peter's dad was/is a pilot too.  Families of pilots know one thing:  the pilots are gone a lot.  Days, even weeks at a time.  This leaves, of course, Mom to run the household.  It was clear from the video clip and the subsequent contrived vow renewal date that Peter's mom bigfooted everything and everyone.  Emotional control, even emotional manipulation and blackmail, is the approach of many such females.  Peter does absolute backflips in response to anyone who gets upset, criticizes him, complains, throws a tantrum, etc.  He's forever apologizing, attempting to mediate, compensate etc.  He is, without a doubt, looking for a replacement for his mother and responding to those who behave like his mother - usually without even knowing why.

A quote from the late 20th Century philosopher Ferris Bueller seems fitting and oh-so-accurate here with regard to Peter:

'[He's] never been in love. At least, nobody's ever been in love with him. If things don't change for him, he's gonna marry the first girl he lays, and she's gonna treat him like s***, because she will have given him what he has built up in his mind as the end-all, be-all of human existence. She won't respect him, 'cause you can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work.'

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The time between recording this trainwreck and actually watching it have become longer each week... but after reading/agreeing with most of what people have said:

Ooh Aliyah came back during a cocktail party to see Peter. Yeah, no producer manipulation there, right? I mean anyone who is cut and feels wronged have license to return should they feel wronged now I guess? It started with Luke P. It's becoming like any time you lose the title in wrestling you are contractually entitled to have a rematch. Voted off schmotedoff do you feel wronged? Have you contacted an attorney? Sure you can come back!

Also I felt it clear that the crux of Victoria F's "lying" is she was setting herself up in the victim/product of a terrible childhood to be pitied role/trope and didn't want to now become "that girl who lied about a few days is Vegas she spent with a fellow beauty queen."

I can see why she was so at a loss for what to say given that it was obviously her first dalliance across gender lines. It was all flashing before her eyes and she had to fall back on that "her truth" is that she is decidedly NOT into women, and especially did NOT spend a few tawdry drunken days in a hotel with another women who she then ended up in the cast of the Bachelor with. And that my friends is a little story about how two Bachelor contestants ended up being cast on the show.

 

Edited by Wandering Snark
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5 hours ago, nutty1 said:

Being Grocery Store Joe and Kendall broke up, is it too late to replace Peter with him?

I'm calling Grocery Store Joe as the next Bachelor 

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These producer manipulations have been around forever . Trisha from Jamie palmers season? She came back and it was a big shocker . Charlie Odonnel did not propose at the final rose ceremony , he asked to date both girls for a while ( i was so disappointed in them).

i would say the producer manipulations are just over the top now and kind of vicious . Yet these women feel helpless because now there is so much more at stake- there’s bip, there’s instagram followers , there’s stagecoach!!! This is the first year i have almost considered stopping watching because it’s just not fun and romantic anymore . 

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Ugh, not grocery store Joe.  He may look good, but he has no personality at all.  

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I think Victoria F is very attractive. She also looks natural unlike most of the other women there. 

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I've been watching since S3 and there've been several bachelors I didn't like (Italian prince, Flahnik, JP to name a few), but Peter is the most wimpy and boring yet. He skulks around looking confused and stressed. He cannot make a decision even when it's obvious, and it drives me crazy. Plus on top of all that, he's BORING!

None of these women seem into him. I don't see any chemistry with any of them. It looks like Peter is just going through the motions. Why on earth did they pick this guy? There is no fire, no energy, snap, nothing!

Victoria got caught lying and Peter couldn't even manage to ask her pointed questions to clarify what on earth she was trying to say with her explanation, which was really talking in circles. It drove me crazy listening to her. I know the show is heavily edited, but come on! Why didn't he just let both of them go? Watching that scene made me like Brad more. I think he would've dealt with both of them better. 

I don't know if Peter is just too young, immature, entitled or what, but he might be the worst bachelor I've seen so far. I don't think I'll bother watching the rest. I'll just read the comments here. 

 

 

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On 1/27/2020 at 9:01 PM, Dejana said:

Interesting... The contestants know they are signing on for producer shenanigans as a price for potential Instagram fame, but the celebrities who do cameos probably don't expect their personal dramas to be dragged into the show. Wonder if this stunt will have an impact on the future stars TPTB are able to book...

I'd say, not at all, since the "stars" they book are always complete nobodies who would kill for a chance to appear on ANY tv show. Peter's desperate attempts to seem excited about "Chase Rice" (for some reason, it sounded stilted and awkward the way he kept using the full name) were hilarious. Apparently this guy was on Survivor? I've watched every season and he doesn't register. unless he was the goober who made final 3 and sang an embarrassing song at a reunion? I can't recall the season, but I know there was a cringeworthy moment there. 

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Shiann just said 8 “likes” in 2 sentences. Where do these women learn to speak??

I don't know what to make of this one. She has moments where she actually seems pretty cool, but her talking heads are so weirdly dead eyed and awkwardly phrased. It's always a low-key monotone whining event, but when she's with the other girls, she seems okay.

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They did go to Vegas together! So, Victoria P is the liar. But she’s crying hysterically, so she’ll get away with it. Now they’re hugging?!? They’re holding hands?!? Now in the course of this conversation Victoria went from we’re not really friends to we’re friends. Who’s the fake pageant girl now?! Literally no one knows! Peter contemplates throwing himself into the shark tank as it slowly dawns on him that maybe they’re both fake. But they’re pretty so give them both roses just in case.

Victoria P has no one to blame but herself. She just had to tell Peter that Alayah "lied" in order to torpedo her and now she doesn't know what to do when Alayah returned from the dead to point out the inconsistencies in her stories.

But I sure hope Alayah got some money or something to return, that house is not going to be a fun time. And since I didn't see any connection between her and Peter the first time, I don't know why he bothered to bring her back.

I would love to see a full-scale mutiny on the part of the girls, that's been the most interesting part so far. Peter's made some bonehead choices in pretty much every situation and they should bring him to task for it. 

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I never understood what Joe saw in the vapid, wishy-washy Kendall. Wonder how it ended. 
 

Peter is so impotent and dim-witted, I can see him making a wonderful cuckold for somebody. He is no match for these players because he has no game. 

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10 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

I would love to see a full-scale mutiny on the part of the girls, that's been the most interesting part so far. Peter's made some bonehead choices in pretty much every situation and they should bring him to task for it. 

Guess they must be getting something out of it to put up with the way he did them all wrong when Allayah came back.  At least a few of them should have gone.

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After this episode I now know why they chose Peter as a bachelor, he's just way too gullible and easy to manipulate. I say this because I can't imagine Mike dealing with drama the way he did, and Tyler at least had sex appeal and seemed desirable. 

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17 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I'd say, not at all, since the "stars" they book are always complete nobodies who would kill for a chance to appear on ANY tv show. Peter's desperate attempts to seem excited about "Chase Rice" (for some reason, it sounded stilted and awkward the way he kept using the full name) were hilarious. Apparently this guy was on Survivor? I've watched every season and he doesn't register. unless he was the goober who made final 3 and sang an embarrassing song at a reunion? I can't recall the season, but I know there was a cringeworthy moment there. 

 

I don't watch Survivor, but I did read that he made the final 3 on his season, so maybe that was him! That reminds me of something Jed would do - sing at the reunion. Awkward.

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I forget which sobbing blonde it was, Kelsey or Victoria P, but she was crying to Peter about her horrible childhood, and then said, "That is what makes me so..." 

i was SURE she was going to finish that sentence with "...insecure."  But no!  She finished with "... so strong."!!  Sweetie, a strong person would not be crying about any of the crap that has happened to you on the show or about any of the traps you have fallen into.

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What happens when you deprive a group of vapid young famewhores of their phones for longer than ten secs? They try to talk in person and use words instead of emojiis and it's just a special kind of hell for anyone trying to follow what they're saying. They hiccup "likes" as often as they probably enter cryinglaughing emojii faces. In fact, I think some of these "girls" were the inspiration behind the cryinglaughing and cryingrillyrill emojiis.  Peter is definitely not the eggplant inspiration, sources report.

To the poor woman who scored four touchdowns and got nothing for it? Honey - the women's pro football agents would like a word. Granted, it's not a life of fakepretendtwuewuf with a drip who throws you down on a table to prove his budding rose is rilly rill, but there are personal trainers, great camaraderie and loads o' fun. Try it and don't hide that talent. 

If Victoria (Letter) can't stop squeeing her pants at being ALONE AT CEDAR POINT with UNLIMTED ACCESS TO ROLLER COASTERS (like, rilly rill coaster...like, happycryingsqueeeggplant emojii!!!!...like, the most awesome coasters on the planet...like....) she can go park herself out of the way and let me at it. Let the real woman on the coaster, please, and take the children out of the park. 

Peter looks like the lamest kisser ever. 

Peter and Ben Higgins should get together and maybe then we can get clarity on why it's just so difficult for them to ever 'get there' with their girls. 

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I liked how angry all them were to Peter to actually call him out. He looks stupid. 

Victoria F can't do heights but goes on slingshot and then says lets go again? She's so fake dramatic. 

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7 hours ago, Just Carol said:

I forget which sobbing blonde it was, Kelsey or Victoria P, but she was crying to Peter about her horrible childhood, and then said, "That is what makes me so..." 

i was SURE she was going to finish that sentence with "...insecure."  But no!  She finished with "... so strong."!!  Sweetie, a strong person would not be crying about any of the crap that has happened to you on the show or about any of the traps you have fallen into.

That whole thing made me think that she took the Kelly Clarkson song "Because of you" and turned it into her personal narrative.  

Oh -  and Case Rice looked totally different on Survivor:  

chase.png

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On 1/29/2020 at 10:57 PM, dirtypop90 said:

LOL I meant shirtless. I was trying to give Colton a compliment and apologize for all the mean things I said about him!

Colton, you are so much better than wimpy peter

 

Colton jumped that fence like a gazelle. I ended up liking him. Not my cup of tea, but he was a decent guy. Peter probably is as well, but he’s not a leading man, at all. I wonder if his mother makes Picadillo? It’s my favorite Cuban meal. That’s about the only thing about Peter I find interesting. 

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I wish Peter had just straight up asked Alayah if she did or did not ask Victoria P to lie about them knowing each other. That is the issue. Her wanting her to lie. Maybe he did and they didn't show it. I think they were editing what Victoria was saying also to leave it murky. They could have gone on a group trip and not really spent any time getting to know each other. I could see where they have been around each other but as Victoria said all together their one on one time amounted to only about 3 hours. 

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On 1/29/2020 at 9:11 AM, Wouldofshouldof said:

McKenna looks like Madison from This is Us. (Sorry for quality - McKenna is on the left.)

20200128_221846.jpg

She looks cute in this pic. The last night of the date cards she looked like shit. Think the stress really is too much for her personality. 

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What is it that makes these girls hate Aalyah so much? I feel like we aren’t being shown anything truly evil. She and Victoria P not telling Peter (or rather producers) they knew each other seemed like she was trying to make sure they could both be cast, because you’re not supposed to tell people ahead of time you were cast. 
 

Peter is a bigger mess than Hannah! He’s somehow more insecure than all these girls. It bugs me that he makes out with girls in front of other girls. As much as the girls are annoyed that he’s giving attention to the drama queens, it’s because he likes them the most. This show isn’t about equity. But he doesn’t even try to hide it. Even Colton did a better job of hiding his favoritism. 
 

 

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I finally dragged myself through all 2 FREAKING hours.

WOW. Peter is SO bad at this - it's totally entertaining, despite all the group dates being so dour. Has there ever been a bachelor who alienated so many of the women? I saw a tweet that I didn't save and wish I could credit, that asked if the women had just unionized against Peter for better working conditions, LOL.

I really wanted thought bubbles over Peter's head during the oh-so dramatic CHASE? CHASE RICE? reveal. I don't think he even understood why she was freaking out so much. 

I still say Savannah is gorgeous and reminds me of someone I can't remember.

Have half of of these women even spoken to Peter? The entire show focuses on maybe 5 people.

There was more chemistry between Victoria P and Alayah than any of these girls with Peter. 

At least Kelsey had some fun on her date. He probably likes her because all of the sudden she's the least dramatic one there.

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On 1/29/2020 at 10:40 PM, Rainsong said:

The 2004 Bachelor may as well have been the 1954 Bachelor.  Everyone looked mature and confident - even if they weren't.  Grooming didn't involve 2 hours of applying war paint.  Subtlety in language, emotion, movement, etc. was rife.  These people were flirting like mad, not just 'spending time' and tossing out canned lines - their own or scripted.

I found the same thing last summer when I spent a week in Melbourne, AU, and their season of Bachelor was in full swing.  So different.  So, so different.

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42 minutes ago, CrazyDog said:

I finally dragged myself through all 2 FREAKING hours.

I missed the show last week, as I was flying to Milwaukee, but dear hubby watched the show and even HE was annoyed at the return of Aliyah (and yes, I know I've murdered the name, but you-all know who I'm talking about) at the end of the group date and Peter spends the ENTIRE NIGHT talking to her to the exclusion of the other women.

He said, and I quote, 'it was a dick move'.  He didn't understand why none of the women left.  He was VERY happy with them reaming him a new hole.

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