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Vienna Blood - General Discussion


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24 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:
29 minutes ago, bluestocking said:

They could always go off-book I guess.

 

They usually do.  Go ask Dexter.  😉

Or for a more optimistic example, Call the Midwife.

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14 hours ago, bluestocking said:

From the link @sugarbaker design shared, it looks like they already filmed the final book.  Has it done well in the UK or US?  Season 2 ends on what some might think is a cliffhanger.  (You can watch the whole season via PBS Passport.)

I watched it on Passport and yeah. Cliffhanger. 👎

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Nice interview with Luise Von Finckh (Clara) here… https://www.pressparty.com/pg/newsdesk/BBC2/view/273843/?isworld=y

I am watching as it airs and really enjoying it. I may even buy the DVDs. Sorry to hear about the cliffhanger, but maybe they know something we do not. Hope springs eternal. 

The show does not get the promo love or outright multi-series renewals like All Creatures, but seems to do well enough in a quiet way. I hope they keep it going. Luise at least seems game. 

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2 hours ago, ComeWhatMay said:

The show does not get the promo love or outright multi-series renewals like All Creatures, but seems to do well enough in a quiet way. I hope they keep it going. Luise at least seems game. 

Well, VB is miles away from ACG&S.  Vienna Blood is a dark mystery series with a psychological bent that isn't afraid of a fetish or two.  ACG&S is a big gooey bonbon of a TV where 1930s England has no racism or no class difference, where housekeepers eat dinner with the masters of the house.  It's not 1930s England as it was, it's 1930s England as it should've been.  Give me murders and fetishes any day!

Edited by sugarbaker design
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1 hour ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Do you recommend the books? Better/ worse/ different than the TV series?

Yes, I do recommend them, although it's been quite a while since I read them (I gave each of them 4* on Goodreads). I think the show does a great job of casting - Max and Oscar are exactly like I pictured, although I can't really remember how closely the shows follow the books.

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On 1/19/2022 at 6:00 PM, Driad said:

Or for a more optimistic example, Call the Midwife.

Add Grantchester to the list too. They started to stray before they even covered the end of book 1...

On 1/20/2022 at 12:02 PM, ComeWhatMay said:

Nice interview with Luise Von Finckh (Clara) here… https://www.pressparty.com/pg/newsdesk/BBC2/view/273843/?isworld=y

I am watching as it airs and really enjoying it. I may even buy the DVDs. Sorry to hear about the cliffhanger, but maybe they know something we do not. Hope springs eternal. 

The show does not get the promo love or outright multi-series renewals like All Creatures, but seems to do well enough in a quiet way. I hope they keep it going. Luise at least seems game. 

I agree about the promo. I wish they promoted the show just a lil bit more. Along with the other shows that get the late slot. Deserves a little more social media love than it gets. Would it hurt pbs (masterpiece?) to make a "stay tuned...VB up next!" post after acgas wraps up for the night? :(

As for the newest episode itself:

I vote they ditch both Clara and Amelia and the romantic nonsense altogether and upgrade the archivist lady's role. She can be the leading lady (or most prominent female character at least).

A different actress and Max and Amelia still have zero romantic chemistry...yay. 

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I really did not want the episode to end. We will see if I make it to the end without binging. 

It feels odd to comment on it as I am not a Max and Amelia fan in either iteration, but watching tonight I am reminded of a ‘90s daytime producer’s musing about her “supercouples” stymied by a half’s departure for a shot at prime time and movies and how the couples no longer worked with the recasts. I saw nothing but doe eyes from Lucy’s side in that scene with Matthew. I honestly thought, Max move on. You are bothering the woman.

To be fair to Lucy, I found Matthew’s chemistry with Jessica way less than stellar too, but the character had more backbone with Jessica and I could see the infatuation Max had with her. If I am supposed to see Clara as the spoiler here, thus far it’s very much the opposite. The proposal scene was gorgeous and the light and dark combo reminded me of Matthew and Mary in season one of Downton Abbey

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Maybe the clue about Max's infatuation with Amelia came from his sister's comment in this episode that Max would do the opposite of whatever his mother suggested.

Was there no ethical barrier to a doctor dating his patient back then?  Especially one being treated for mental illness?  

Clara is conveniently now engaged to a fellow who's in business contact with Max's Dad.  I like the actress much better than either Amelia.  

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, bluestocking said:

Was there no ethical barrier to a doctor dating his patient back then?  Especially one being treated for mental illness?  

I think it wasn’t even thought that you would want to at that time. Raised in a loving home with favored status from the looks of it, Max has the security, smarts, looks, style, and confidence to break all the rules. Even the ones you shouldn’t. There’s a big ick factor now and for good reason. I met half of a doctor-former patient marriage years ago and yikes. 

Religious difference in pre-world-changing war number one is also something you need to be strong stuff as a pair to contend with… 

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The rules against a doctor sleeping with a former patient are relatively recent, from the 1980s IIRC.  I know of one psychiatrist who married  his patient  in the 1950s and they were quite happy together. It's been quite a while since Miss Lydgate was Max's patient so no one would say anything about him seeing her socially. Well I would because Max looks like an absolute dope mooning after her. but his society wouldn't.

15 hours ago, bluestocking said:

Maybe the clue about Max's infatuation with Amelia came from his sister's comment in this episode that Max would do the opposite of whatever his mother suggested.

That's the best explanation that I've heard because there is nothing on screen to explain it. There is even less chemistry with this recast than there was with Jessice De G. Klara seems like a much better bet.

I like the archivist much more than Amelia, (I wish Oskar were free for her) and one reason is that she's enthusiastic and gets actively involved in trying to solve the murders, unlike Amelia who just floats on the surface, appearing when she's called and then disappearing again until Max finds another excuse to call her.  I wish Oskar were free for the archivist.

I thought that Oskar would take the girl home with him since they lost a child but his wife is still mourning the loss of their child. She really needs to see Max professionally.

I presume that the episode is called "Devil's Kiss" because the villain is named Lazae Kis. But in Hungarian, it's pronounced 'kish' which rather messes things up.

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1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

…I wish Oskar were free for the archivist.

I thought that Oskar would take the girl home with him since they lost a child but his wife is still mourning the loss of their child. She really needs to see Max professionally.

I thought he was. I thought his wife left at the end of series one, returning her ring? I thought that was a flashback that the archivist’s words elicited about death being all she had? Oscar’s grief led him to retreat in to his work and to an unconquerable divide with his wife? 

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And I ordered the DVDs with the KN95 masks I need more of for my work event and hotel stay in the near future. No self control, whatsoever… 

By the way, series one is back ordered on PBS and it’s a wait on Amazon too. It seems they really don’t have to do much for this show. 

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17 minutes ago, ComeWhatMay said:

And I ordered the DVCDs with the KN95 masks I need more of for my work event and hotel stay in the near future. No self control, whatsoever… 

By the way, series one is back ordered on PBS and it’s a wait on Amazon too. It seems they really don’t have to do much for this show. 

Clearly we need a Season 3!

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On 1/24/2022 at 10:30 PM, statsgirl said:

That's the best explanation that I've heard because there is nothing on screen to explain it. There is even less chemistry with this recast than there was with Jessice De G. Klara seems like a much better bet.

Agree. I find the chemistry with Amelia (all Amelias) very zzzzzzz. Clara is at least lively, and I can believe that she feels something for Max. Amelia gives no indication why she might like Max, other than he is a border-line harrasser who wouldn't leave her alone after he healed her. And Max gives no indication why he thinks he love Amelia, other than she was a case of his and is a SCIENTIST. 

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8 hours ago, HappyHanna said:

Agree. I find the chemistry with Amelia (all Amelias) very zzzzzzz. Clara is at least lively, and I can believe that she feels something for Max. Amelia gives no indication why she might like Max, other than he is a border-line harrasser who wouldn't leave her alone after he healed her. And Max gives no indication why he thinks he love Amelia, other than she was a case of his and is a SCIENTIST. 

So much this. I said something similar last season. Max and Amelia, while intellectually a match, have absolutely zero romantic chemistry. Doesn't matter which actress either. Clara and Max, however, have romantic chemistry...but are leading very different lives. 

I honestly wish they'd do away with the Max romance subplot entirely. 

Episode talk:

Max just grabbing the bomb, awkwardly running with it and then chucking it in the river (and the delayed explosion) got a big grin out of me. Lol.

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“Are you happy, Clara?”

“You don’t have the right to ask me that. I’m not your patient.” 

Feel the burn. And, no, she’s not happy, her fiancé Jonas knows it — and neither are you, Maximilian. Thanks to my series one DVD. 

Von Bülow is a moron. Lily — tick, tock, tick, tock — gave me the creeps. 

Max and Oskar are a dynamic duo. The bomb bit had my heart racing and their back and forth over the bomb had me chuckling. 

I get the desire for him to go stag for the show, but Max will have endless puzzles at work and moonlighting with Oskar. A straightforward mate who can hold her own would serve him well and fit the era where there are less single folks of a certain age, like me. 

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ACG&S is a big gooey bonbon of a TV where 1930s England has no racism or no class difference, where housekeepers eat dinner with the masters of the house.  It's not 1930s England as it was, it's 1930s England as it should've been.  Give me murders and fetishes any day!

London & Yorkshire are worlds apart! There probably not as many "other" people there and the household is small enough that it works. At the main castle in the area, it probably doesn't happen. I was watching Yellowjackets, Dexter, and Claws, and need to catch up on ACG&S. 

Enjoying Vienna Blood, but there are a few many cliches. 

I was kind of annoyed about the Clara/Max thing. His sister chided him into engaging Clara, when he really wasn't really into it and then is mad when he isn't into her. I don't know what kind of rules they had around seeing your patient at that time. Maybe those things haven't been figured out yet.

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Max and Oskar are fabulous. 

It was a hoot to watch Max and Clara interact after Helen with Hugh on All Creatures. Helen knows she made the right call. When you know you did the right thing, you don’t have obvious seller’s remorse like Clara (Clara actually called it off after all) or hot hand shakes with the ex “who still feels responsible for you.” Hugh’s new gal is a viper, but it’s not Helen’s problem and she knows it and Max could really have stopped short of the undercover op and gone to the opera with Amelia if he really wanted to… 

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I don't think that Clara wanted to call it off but she felt that she had to because Max wasn't interested in her anymore and she didn't want to marry a man who didn't care for her when she cared for him. She doesn't care for Jonas as much as she did for Max but Jonas loves her and will be a good husband.

I think if Max could, he would prefer to be with Oskar solving mysteries than with either Clara or Amelia. Max strikes me as being rather asexual; he is interested in Amelia but that's because she was an interesting patient, because she helps in solving police cases, and because he is at the age where he is expected to court a young lady and get married.  If he really cared for Amelia in that way, he would have told her the truth, that he was helping Oskar solve a case instead of the lie about a conference.

Oskar's reaction to Max asking to speak to the prisoner was a hoot "that's where it starts to fall apart."

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13 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I think if Max could, he would prefer to be with Oskar solving mysteries than with either Clara or Amelia. Max strikes me as being rather asexual; he is interested in Amelia but that's because she was an interesting patient, because she helps in solving police cases, and because he is at the age where he is expected to court a young lady and get married.  If he really cared for Amelia in that way, he would have told her the truth, that he was helping Oskar solve a case instead of the lie about a conference.

I think you're absolutely right about Max. Without all the social constraints he could just be friends/colleagues with the 2 women; but as things are now it would be one more thing his parents disapprove of and Max probably can't take any more parental disapproval.

I find Clara extremely annoying and needy.

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On 2/7/2022 at 12:13 AM, statsgirl said:

I think if Max could, he would prefer to be with Oskar solving mysteries than with either Clara or Amelia. Max strikes me as being rather asexual; he is interested in Amelia but that's because she was an interesting patient, because she helps in solving police cases, and because he is at the age where he is expected to court a young lady and get married.

This. You can tell romance isn't very high on Max's list of priorities. He's more of a "married to his work" kinda fellow.

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I really enjoyed the first season of this when I caught it a couple of years ago and rewatched it this week in preparation of binging all of season 2, which I just finished. (I won't comment on specifics about the final episode since it hasn't aired yet.) I also really liked season 2. 

For the most part, my opinions pretty much follows the general sentiment I'm seeing from other posters. I really like Max and Oscar as a team (Oscar's amused, knowing smirk is one of my favorite things ever LOL), and I love the setting. The locations and costumes are great eye-candy too. I love that they film it in Austria and use Austrian cast members. It makes for a nice change of pace from the British mysteries set in the UK, though I do enjoy them as well. 

I find the mystery elements a little overly convoluted but still fun in a goofy 1930s mystery sort of way. The less said about the romance the better. I want to like Max, but the way he treated Clare in season 1 was so shitty and the creepy fixation with Amelia (who bores the hell out of me with both actresses) is pretty gross, so it prevents me from really liking him as much as I would otherwise.

On a rewatch, his indifference to Clara in the first scene of season 1 where they're viewing the Klimt painting (which I actually liked!) before he gets mesmerized by Amelia and her breakdown was just brutal to sit through, and he continues to treat her so indifferently that it just makes him seem like a complete asshole, even when I can understand why he is reacting that way in the moment. On top of that, a lot of the stuff with Amelia comes across as like stalking, and they have moved past that for season 2 but not in any way that makes sense. Part of the problem may be that Max just has so little chemistry with the actresses, even when he's supposed to be infatuated with them, so it just adds to the cringe, IMO. He and Oscar have way more chemistry. LOL

Still, I hope there is a season 3. The end of season 2 definitely makes it seem like the show itself is not interested in ending the series yet. I recently ordered the books, which I've never read, but from reading the blurbs on the back, it looks like the show has adapted 5 of the books and 1 short story. 2 books remain un-adapted (from the middle of the series). I wonder if this is what they'd draw from for a third season. I also wonder if the author is working on an 8th book that could be used to round out that season. He hasn't written one in a few years, but I'm not sure if he has set the series aside or not. 

Edited by Zella
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Re Max's lack of social graces--are we meant to think he's on the spectrum--book smart but lacking common sense?

He's studied psychoanalysis, but when it comes to apply it in real life--in Season 1, he was unable to get his traumatized nephew to talk about what happened at the military academy.  Max and Oskar had to figure things out in traditional ways.  And then in Season 2, Max followed the book interviewing the little girl--bringing in a teddy bear, seeming empathetic--but never picked up any clues that she was lying the whole time.  He was fooled by a preteen girl.  I realize Max being clueless helps draw out the plot, but is that the only reason?  (I haven't read the books.)

Speaking of the nephew, what happened to him?  His mother is still living there with the family, but where's her son?

I like Clara a lot--she brings energy to all the scenes she's in.  I wonder why she wasn't written out after Season 1.  

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, bluestocking said:

(I haven't read the books.)

I am about halfway through the first book on a first read, and I'm finding Book Max a lot more inherently likable and less clueless than Show Max. The personalities of both protagonists are quite different. Seems like the show introduced a lot more conflict into their relationship and much more brooding into their personalities than the books. I complained about how he treated Clara in my original comment a few days ago, but so far, in the book, I can see why he is second-guessing his feelings for her and it is a lot clearer that he loves her but finds her immature and superficial whereas in the show he just seemed to barely tolerate her at all.

This is based on like 150 pages of reading. LOL

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4 minutes ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Well that's certainly a way to end the season. Certainly left room for a potential season 3.

Oh Max...

I'm ready for Oskar's boss to get axed. 

I actually like von Bulow--an un self-aware, mustache-twirling comedy relief "villain."  Immensely entertaining and ALMOST but not quite over the top.

So THAT was why they kept Clara around.  Just want to add that they give her the most amazing wardrobe.  And hats!  Not easy to wear one of those and not look ridiculous.  

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9 minutes ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Well that's certainly a way to end the season. Certainly left room for a potential season 3.

That cliffhanger was literally the most interesting to me that the love triangle ever was. LOL

1 minute ago, bluestocking said:

Just want to add that they give her the most amazing wardrobe. 

Yes! I loved that white and black suit she wore in the previous episode when she went to Max for help. Just stunning. But all her clothes were great. 

Edited by Zella
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I really hope the show continues and I am glad I bought the DVDs. Zella, thank you for the book information. It sounds like the casting for Clara elevated the character — there’s just more there, there with LVF. I also think the show sees her as sociable rather than shallow, as do I. For all his intelligence, I agree Max is lacking in social graces and has a lot of trouble communicating. I knew for certain he loved Clara when he hauled ass out of the house utterly terrified, startling Leah, the night Clara was attacked. 

“Drive” is right, Amelia. Max kissed Clara. It felt like him taking Oskar’s advice from the last finale to grab happiness. Jonas should hightail it too, because Clara went there and really wanted Max to… kiss her. Ahem. The intense and tight hug, Clara caressing Max’s face, and their warm and lingering kiss are not how you say goodbye in my book. Does anyone else see them, literally kissing in the window?! Hope we find out. And, pardon the Jack Harlow, but Max shouldn’t send Clara “back to her [fiancé] with [his] handprint on her ass cheek” anyway. 

I see Clara — imagine her in 2022 (Max who by now, well probably) — as much constrained by the times as Amelia, who came to Vienna for her career and got the kitchen sink and a murderous boss lobbed at her. Clara’s choices at this stage are probably very limited outside of Jonas, partly due, in my view, to Max messing her about so badly before. Think if he took the out she gave him rather than propose. Jonas gave me a Carlisle vibe (Downton Abbey) with that look and not telling Clara about the sale, and the heart wants what it wants. I don’t blame her. Max put it all on the line for her and looked gorgeous doing it, even done up like a monk with yes, perfect hair. Heh. MB rocks those suits as much as LVF those dresses. 

I would argue it’s the continued dithering from Max that is the weakness in the show and mucks with Max’s good guy characterization in the process. Good guys do not play with people and while it may not come from a place of malice in Max’s case (or Clara’s with Jonas), the result is the same and makes you like them less. All Creatures Helen should have ended it with Hugh before the altar, I think, but at least she ended it and before James’ lips or any other part of him touched hers. I hope Clara ends things with Jonas too, before the altar, and does not pull an Amanda on Grantchester. Just ugh. Guy and Amanda’s eventual daughter definitely deserved better, Hell even Guy deserved better. 

My vote: Send Amelia 2.0 off to better things, send Jonas to find someone who actually wants him and/or to become a bonafide foe as it could be really fun, and in doing so shrink the tepid quad to a couple, Max and Clara. Max continues to run the streets with big brother/uncle Oskar. I also vote to keep Max’s parents and sister (plus nephew when fitting) around. I missed them in part 2 of this episode. Here’s hoping for more Vienna Blood

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36 minutes ago, ComeWhatMay said:

I also think the show sees her as sociable rather than shallow, as do I.

Yes I would agree with this. The way she is depicted in the book does seem shallow and kind of childish and oblivious (though not in a malicious way.) But I can see how it would be tedious for him. I always read show Clara more as playful and teasing, like she sees right through him and is making a point. 

36 minutes ago, ComeWhatMay said:

Max put it all on the line for her and looked gorgeous doing it, even done up like a monk with yes, perfect hair.

I laughed so hard at the scene when he first proposed going undercover as a monk. Oscar's horror and his eagerness were both hilariously awesome. He handled the assignment better than I thought he would. I kept waiting for him to blow his cover.

36 minutes ago, ComeWhatMay said:

I would argue it’s the continued dithering from Max that is the weakness in the show and mucks with Max’s good guy characterization in the process. Good guys do not play with people and while it may not come from a place of malice in Max’s case (or Clara’s with Jonas), the result is the same and makes you like them less.

This was my issue with him, especially on a rewatch. I really like Max in his interactions with pretty much everyone else. But with the women in his life, he just seems really selfish and unpleasant. He's churlish and neglectful of Clara when she is his fiancee and then he is overbearing and invasive with Amelia when she is his patient and then forced collaborator. He does treat Amelia marginally better when they're an item until he starts macking on Clara, but he is incredibly inconsiderate of everyone else when he keeps trying to force her into social situations, heedless of how understandably uncomfortable it is for her or anyone else. 

Edited to add: Last year, I was reading about 19th century Viennese society in relation to the Mayerling murder-suicide and how Crown Prince Rudolf's behavior toward Mary Vetsera was incredibly inconsiderate of her reputation in Vienna, long before things took such a dark turn. I kept thinking about that in relation to Max for both Clara and Amelia. He is very inconsiderate of their reputations in a city and society where, as the show acknowledges, reputation is everything. It's not the behavior of a gentleman, but the show still seems to want to present him as the good guy. I think it would rub me the wrong way less if he was genuinely called out on the assholishness of it more. A lot of times when he is, the other character is almost presented as being an uptight jerk who just doesn't understand him. 

Edited by Zella
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Another enjoyable episode and an interesting choice of who the bad guys were.   My only complaint is in the soap opera ending.  Why does this show have to go THERE?  I really don't care about Max's love life - I want to see crime solving, not stupid love triangles.  At this point, I'd rather him wash his hands of both women and save that kind of drama for the cases.   

Anyway, I really hope that the show is renewed and we get to see more of it in the future.  

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In "Darkness Rising, Part 1" when Max was planning to infiltrate the monastery, I wish they had included a few details. Was "Brother Maxwell" supposed to be Austrian or British? Does Max speak English?

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42 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

Why does this show have to go THERE?  I really don't care about Max's love life - I want to see crime solving, not stupid love triangles.  At this point, I'd rather him wash his hands of both women and save that kind of drama for the cases.   

They don’t—and they shouldn’t anymore. Triangles/quadrangles/soap opera shenanigans  make everyone in them look bad and this one has dragged on for two series. This isn’t The Vampire Diaries. Heh. 

I sometimes forget how women were blamed back then even when the men involved were clearly to blame. 

If they get another go, Amelia can and should just get out of dodge, but Clara would have a much harder time if Max places her in a situation where she has no choice but marry Jonas... 

The renewal announcement was slow to come last time, probably due to multiple studios and countries in the mix and actors schedules. 

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On 2/13/2022 at 6:55 PM, bluestocking said:

Speaking of the nephew, what happened to him?  His mother is still living there with the family, but where's her son?

This! It's been bugging me all season! It's been a long time since season 1 but I vaguely remember there being a nephew (nephews?).

School? With his dad? (Or is Leah's hubby dead? I literally can't remember at this point. It's been too long)? Forgotten about?

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10 minutes ago, HoodlumSheep said:

This! It's been bugging me all season! It's been a long time since season 1 but I vaguely remember there being a nephew (nephews?).

School? With his dad? (Or is Leah's hubby dead? I literally can't remember at this point. It's been too long)? Forgotten about?

I only remember this because I just watched season 1 again, but yeah Leah's husband is dead and she had the one son (Daniel), who was in the awful military school. I also was wondering if there'd be an update on him. But it seems like that was just dropped unless I missed a quick reference to Daniel.

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18 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Another enjoyable episode and an interesting choice of who the bad guys were.   My only complaint is in the soap opera ending.  Why does this show have to go THERE?  I really don't care about Max's love life - I want to see crime solving, not stupid love triangles.  At this point, I'd rather him wash his hands of both women and save that kind of drama for the cases.   

This!

18 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Anyway, I really hope that the show is renewed and we get to see more of it in the future.  

This too!

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I went to the Secession Museum and saw the Beethoven Frieze, now on display in the sub-basement in a room of its own.  What an amazing work.  Now I have to watch the episode again, where iirc the frieze is in its original place alongside the golden statue of Beethoven.  

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