S12.E05: Fugitive of the Judoon

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Trigger-happy space police the Judoon are targeting 21st-century Gloucester, so the Doctor, Yaz, Ryan and Graham race back to Earth in order to prevent them doing too much damage to the cathedral city.

Airing Sunday, January 26, 2020.

[DanaK]

Next-time trailer

Guest cast:

Ruth Clayton - Jo Martin

Lee Clayton - Neil Stuke

Gat - Ritu Arya

Written by Vinay Patel and Chris Chibnall

Directed by Nida Manzoor

Edited January 27, 2020 by DanaK
Corrected guest cast list

[DanaK]

Some promo pics

 

 

[DanaK]

More promo pics http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/series-12-episode-5-fugitive-of-the-judoon-pics-92083.htm

[DanaK]

The BBC is promising something major for this episode

 

From one of the show’s producers

 

[gonzosgirrl]

16 hours ago, DanaK said:

The BBC is promising something major for this episode

 

From one of the show’s producers

 

Sweeties? That can only mean one thing, right?

[DanaK]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sweeties? That can only mean one thing, right?

No, I doubt it’s River

[ApathyMonger]

Well, that’s not what I expected. Very odd episode, in a mostly good way.

 

Looking forward to the rest of the season more after that.

[Ceindreadh]

I am so glad I avoided spoilers for this ep. There may or may not have been a squeal of delight at this episodes returnee. 

[PWHCHCH]

How on earth did they manage to keep so many plot points so under wraps and spoiler free. Well done to the production team. 
 

Best Jodie episode, and probably the best episode since Heaven Sent imo. 

[Joe Hellandback]

Watching in the UK so spoilers for the US/Commonwealth.

1.  Judoon are stupid characters and the series could do without them.

2. Cause Captain Jack will get you high tonight! Great to see him back. 

3.  The Doctor is keeping secrets from her companions, don't blame her, why trouble them when she doesn't understand it all herself. 

4. Gloucester? When will the Doctor get to Northern Ireland (the Giant's Causeway? Greenham Fort? Newgrange?), the Isle of Man, Scilly Isles, Gib?

5.  Rather liked the villainess, hope she's not gone for good, 

6. This new Doctor seems to have been taking lessons from the 7th, tricking their enemy into killing themselves. 

7.  They're going to a lighthouse and no Virginia Woolf joke?

8.  Give me a WHAT!?

9. Thought there would be a Timelord explanation, the whole thing reeked off Human Nature/Family of Blood. 

10. Nice Tardis, like it better than OUR Doctor's.

11. The lone Cyberman? Here's hoping it's not the Brigadier! Always wondered what would happen if a Time Lord was transformed into Cyberman/Dalek and then regenerated? 

12. Okay, intrigued now and will definitely watch the rest of the series. 

[Occasional Hope]

Fab episode and well concealed spoilers 😉

Are they perhaps from an alternate timeline?  (Diverging a long way back.)

Or has the doctor's memory been interfered with somehow?

[John Potts]

Well that didn't go where I expected (a good thing)! And I wasn't expecting Captain Jack to show up either (though I instantly recognised John Barrowman's voice). So I guess Gallifrey might turn out to be Not So Dead (again)? Here's hoping it's actually thought through and there will be a decent explanation for it all.

1 hour ago, Occasional Hope said:

Are they perhaps from an alternate timeline?

That was my guess. Maybe this Doctor got left behind in E-Space (instead of Romana) and "missed" the Time War? Unless we're going with another previously unknown Regeneration (presumably between The War Doctor and Nine).

[Sakura12]

Captain Jack! Was not expecting to see him. I have no idea how they kept that under wraps but I'm glad they did. It's too bad he didn't actually get to interact with the Doctor though. I guess everyone is going to mistake Graham as the Doctor. 

That story did not go where I thought it was going. I thought she was going to be the Master, wasn't expecting Ruth to be the Doctor.  I am interested in now since I have no idea what's happening. This Doctor seem more like the War Doctor and 9. Or she could be from an alternate timeline. So many questions, but I'm glad for it. 

[rwlevin]

1 hour ago, John Potts said:

Unless we're going with another previously unknown Regeneration (presumably between The War Doctor and Nine).

No, this Doctor is definitely pre-time war. She and Gat were talking about going back to Gallifrey. If it was after the War doctor, they’d think Gallifrey was time-locked.

[libgirl2]

How many unknown Doctors are going to keep showing up? Sorry, love the actress not liking this storyline.  The introduction of a new Doctor is a big deal. Why couldnt we get Romana back or Susan? 

Knew it was Jack right away!

[Rhetorica]

Loved it! And I was spoiled about Captain Jack. He truly hasn't aged a day. I love a mystery wrapped in science fiction. I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's ideas as the season continues. I've got nothing....

Edited January 27, 2020 by Rhetorica
I read about the spoilers at Telegraph UK

[ybrik]

Also this Doctor would have to be really early before 4 at least since she didn't know about the sonic screwdriver. I do wonder if Chibnall is redoing the storyline that 7 was going to have before the original series was cancelled. From what I've read It was supposed to be that somehow the Doctor was one of the original timelords but has somehow forgotten about it. This could be what the Master alluded to about being lied to their whole lives. Also if you think about it the Moment, which was supposed to be created by the ancient timelords, is the kind of weapon the Doctor would create. Something that could destroy worlds but had a conscience. 

This season has been really good. I am intrigued how all of these threads are going to be tied together. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Sqeeee!!!

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, ybrik said:

Also this Doctor would have to be really early before 4 at least since she didn't know about the sonic screwdriver. I do wonder if Chibnall is redoing the storyline that 7 was going to have before the original series was cancelled. From what I've read It was supposed to be that somehow the Doctor was one of the original timelords but has somehow forgotten about it. This could be what the Master alluded to about being lied to their whole lives. Also if you think about it the Moment, which was supposed to be created by the ancient timelords, is the kind of weapon the Doctor would create. Something that could destroy worlds but had a conscience. 

This season has been really good. I am intrigued how all of these threads are going to be tied together. 

Two had a sonic. 

[RandomWatcher]

Well I'm confused, anyone else?

[truther]

Loved it, and it's always good to see a well-written and well-executed episode.

It's interesting that Ruth, if she is the Doctor, was so different from our Doctor.  She was violent, incurious, mercenary.  I wonder where that came from.

Also, and this only occurred to me after watching the episode, but were those two different Tardises?  Wouldn't one of them have recognized the other, or something?  Gat had that line about how two Doctors can't occupy the same timestream, but I would have thought it's impossible to split our Tardis into two parallel versions and then have them be in essentially the same place.  What are the odds that a different Doctor would have a Tardis locked in the same Police Call Box disguise?

[phalange]

Mind. Blown.

Totally didn’t expect Jack to return and I loved him mistaking both Graham and Yaz for the Doctor. When he warned about the Cyberman, I thought it was going to be Ruth, and that she purposely blocked out her past. Turns out she did, just not for the reason I thought. 

Gat and Ruth must be from an alternate timeline if they don’t know about either destruction of Gallifrey. This has to relate to the Master’s message about everything the Doctor knows being a lie; something to do with the Timeless Child. 

It’s good that she opened up to Yaz, Ryan, and Graham instead of lying about what happened. 

“A platoon of Judoon near the moon.” Ha. Thirteen, your Ten is showing. 

 

[DanaK]

I spent the last 7 hours off social media and forum boards because the promotion was in overdrive and promising spoilers and twists and I decided to remain unspoiled, especially from UK viewers, as I watched the episode.

This was certainly worth the personal blackout. I think this is my favorite episode of Jodie's era so far and I'm still processing it. Here I thought we would just be getting a fun lighthearted episode with the Judoon.

I had not gotten spoiled about any of this (actual spoilers that is) so I was totally not expecting Capt Jack. I didn't recognize John Barrowman's voice, but I totally squeed and pretty much cheered when he entered the scene. I loved every bit about his scenes. John Barrowman is so much fun as Jack. Jack had some important info to share and it's obviously stuff to come. I just wish he had scenes with the Doctor and I hope he gets to come back (and have scenes with the Doctor)

As for Ruth being some version of the Doctor, it's obviously not fully answered yet. We basically got an introduction and a taste, but there obviously is a lot more to come. It's somewhat confusing for now, but I'm very intrigued as to where this will go.

The stuff with the Judoon was pretty fun, especially with the Doctor confronting and confusing them. I'm just sorry she didn't speak Judoon

Jodie did marvelous work here, especially in her interaction with Ruth as The Doctor. The companions got some fun stuff to do, especially with Jack. And John Barrowman was marvelous as Jack

I have to hand it to the producers, the actors, and the BBC. They kept some major secrets all these months, especially Barrowman. I don't know how they kept these spoilers from getting out to the fanbase (some probably knew them but it didn't really get out to the wider fanbase). Kudos to them

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, John Potts said:

Unless we're going with another previously unknown Regeneration (presumably between The War Doctor and Nine).

Didn't we see a scene where the War Doctor regenerated into Nine? 

 

17 minutes ago, rwlevin said:

No, this Doctor is definitely pre-time war. She and Gat were talking about going back to Gallifrey. If it was after the War doctor, they’d think Gallifrey was time-locked.

And that control room definitely looked like early Tardis, very bare bones.

 

2 minutes ago, truther said:

What are the odds that a different Doctor would have a Tardis locked in the same Police Call Box disguise?

We know the Doctor stole the Tardis, but was it already stuck as a police box when it was stolen? Could this doctor be even earlier than One?

[libgirl2]

11 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Didn't we see a scene where the War Doctor regenerated into Nine? 

 

And that control room definitely looked like early Tardis, very bare bones.

 

We know the Doctor stole the Tardis, but was it already stuck as a police box when it was stolen? Could this doctor be even earlier than One?

Yes War Doctor turned into Nine before our eyes. 

The control room was bare bones but the TARDIS was not a police box when One took it unless they had them on Gallifrey! Seriously when Clara encouraged One to take a particular TARDIS it looked like a tube. It was cloaked on earth to blend in. 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by libgirl2

[LiveenLetLive]

Loved it, more adult than the first new episodes this season (several people died!) not overtly political (like that dreadful second episode) and I adored the fierce black Doctor, got a kick out of Walsh--Barrowman kiss. I happen to be a fan of the episodes that move me emotionally organically and this one did, Ruth's bittersweet memory of her childhood (that it was not real did not diminish the fact that it touched me.) Jodie was very good as usual.

Edited January 27, 2020 by LiveenLetLive

[elle]

That was a rollicking episode!

I usually check in here before an episode to see if I want to watch.  Read the first couple of posts and decided to remain unspoiled.  I am *so* glad I did.  My husband was amused by my reaction (Wait. That's! Squee!!) I made my daughter come watch in real time. (It's Captain Jack!)  We both thought Ruth would reveal herself as River. She certainly was more martial than we are used to seeing The Doctor.  I hope we learn more about her and Lee.

Quote

@Rhetorica said: Loved it! And I was spoiled about Captain Jack. He truly hasn't aged a day.

Hee! My daughter said the same thing and asked me how does he look the same.  When I launched into "well, Rose...", I received a "look".

39 minutes ago, ybrik said:

Also this Doctor would have to be really early before 4 at least since she didn't know about the sonic screwdriver

Ruth said something to the effect that she no longer needed to use one.

As to Jack's warning about the lone Cyberman, ever since I heard there was a Mary Shelley episode I've theorized that they'll say that is the inspiration for Frankenstein's monster.  I'm sure I'm not the only one to think that.

Edited January 27, 2020 by elle
added a quote

[rwlevin]

42 minutes ago, Starchild said:

We know the Doctor stole the Tardis, but was it already stuck as a police box when it was stolen? Could this doctor be even earlier than One?

I have seen the first episode (the unearthly child) so I can answer this. It got stuck as a police box in the first episode. When The Doctor and his companions landed in the prehistoric time, Susan mentions that the Tardis still looked like a police box (and she explains how the chameleon circuit works) indicating that the chameleon circuit worked before the series started.
 

Speaking of which, Ruth really reminded me of One who always seemed to me the most serious and least friendly of all the doctors. I’m sure we’ll see her again. And I hope we see Captain Jack again soon.

Edited January 27, 2020 by rwlevin

[DanaK]

Jo Martin really did a great job as Ruth. The real interesting thing is that, as others have said, her Doctor was much more violent than our Doctor

I've really enjoyed this season so far, even more than last season, which I liked a lot. But this episode has raised my love of Series 12 even further. Please don't screw up the rest of the season Chibnall!

Edited January 27, 2020 by DanaK

[Lantern7]

Well.. Shit. Like Chibnall is paddling the asses of the fandom, screaming, "YOU LIKE THAT?!? YOU BLOODY WELL LIKE THAT???!???" And I mean that in the best possible way. I mean, when the return of Jack Harkness isn't the biggest bombshell, you know it's a game-changer of an episode.

There is a new Doctor. Who might be an old Doctor. Who may have been female before Thirteen. I'm thinking alternate timelines . . . novels and Big Finish plays have a lot of those. But seeing Ruth go from tour guide to smartly-dressed Time Lady with a TARDIS that resembles a police box? That's a lot to take in. Great, now I hear Jack laughing his ass off hearing me type that.

And, of course, this is a brutal, more cunning Doctor. Actually, she seems like a Doctor from the Time War . . . but we only had one of those, right? Paul McGann transformed into a CGIed Young John Hurt in "Night of the Doctor," right? So we couldn't have several incarnations of War Doctor. Once again, I'm thinking alternate timelines. Or maybe it's a Time Lady that thinks she's the Doctor. Maybe this has been set up by the "Lone Cyberman." Maybe this is part of a scheme from Chibnall to kill Whovians with significant doses of fan service.

Hairy Judoon are a little scarier. Also, they can now be lumped i the same group as Adolf Hitler under "Was In The Episode Title, But Was So Insignificant In The Bigger Picture." Who knows how long Adolf was stuck in the cupboard after Rory shoved him in there.

And, of course, Jack immediately assumed Graham was the Doctor. At least he moved on to Yaz. Barrowman brought the cheese . . . but it was the good cheese. And the door is now open for him to play a significant role this season.

[libgirl2]

13 minutes ago, rwlevin said:

I have seen the first episode (the impossible child) so I can answer this. It got stuck as a police box in the first episode. When The Doctor and his companions landed in the prehistoric time, Susan mentions that the Tardis still looked like a police box (and she explains how the chameleon circuit works) indicating that the chameleon circuit worked before the series started.
 

Speaking of which, Ruth really reminded me of One who always seemed to me the most serious and least friendly of all the doctors. I’m sure we’ll see her again. And I hope we see Captain Jack again soon.

Unearthly Child. But it wasn't a police box when the Doctor got here. He wouldn't have seen one.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Well.. Shit. Like Chibnall is paddling the asses of the fandom, screaming, "YOU LIKE THAT?!? YOU BLOODY WELL LIKE THAT???!???" And I mean that in the best possible way. I mean, when the return of Jack Harkness isn't the biggest bombshell, you know it's a game-changer of an episode.

There is a new Doctor. Who might be an old Doctor. Who may have been female before Thirteen. I'm thinking alternate timelines . . . novels and Big Finish plays have a lot of those. But seeing Ruth go from tour guide to smartly-dressed Time Lady with a TARDIS that resembles a police box? That's a lot to take in. Great, now I hear Jack laughing his ass off hearing me type that.

And, of course, this is a brutal, more cunning Doctor. Actually, she seems like a Doctor from the Time War . . . but we only had one of those, right? Paul McGann transformed into a CGIed Young John Hurt in "Night of the Doctor," right? So we couldn't have several incarnations of War Doctor. Once again, I'm thinking alternate timelines. Or maybe it's a Time Lady that thinks she's the Doctor. Maybe this has been set up by the "Lone Cyberman." Maybe this is part of a scheme from Chibnall to kill Whovians with significant doses of fan service.

Hairy Judoon are a little scarier. Also, they can now be lumped i the same group as Adolf Hitler under "Was In The Episode Title, But Was So Insignificant In The Bigger Picture." Who knows how long Adolf was stuck in the cupboard after Rory shoved him in there.

And, of course, Jack immediately assumed Graham was the Doctor. At least he moved on to Yaz. Barrowman brought the cheese . . . but it was the good cheese. And the door is now open for him to play a significant role this season.

Interesting.... Jack's warning..... an unknown Doctor.  Maybe it's not what it seems? 

Oh and John Barrowman still looks so young because of CGI. He looks good in real life but like all of us he has aged.

[rwlevin]

3 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Unearthly Child. But it wasn't a police box when the Doctor got here. He wouldn't have seen one.

I haven’t seen the episode for 10 years So I forgot the name exactly but I didn’t say it was a police box before he got here, it became one when they got here and when they left, in the first episode, is when it got stuck.

[LiveenLetLive]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

Oh and John Barrowman still looks so young because of CGI. He looks good in real life but like all of us he has aged.

Damn I keep forgetting that they now have de-aging CGI capability, LOL, oh if only I could use it IRL!

[DanaK]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

Oh and John Barrowman still looks so young because of CGI. He looks good in real life but like all of us he has aged.

I think CGI de-aging is way too expensive for this show. I think they just dyed his hair as Barrowman has let his hair grow grey in real life. But I could be wrong

Radio Times interview with Barrowman https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-01-26/john-barrowman-captain-jack-doctor-who-return/

[Rhetorica]

Just wondering, could the Lone Cyberman be Bill? That pain would still be raw for the Doctor, yes?

[rwlevin]

I thought Bill was now traveling the universe as living water with her water girlfriend.

[Cobb Salad]

1 minute ago, Rhetorica said:

Just wondering, could the Lone Cyberman be Bill? That pain would still be raw for the Doctor, yes?

I was thinking the same thing.  
Enjoyed the episode and looking forward to more.  Best of the season so far IMO.   I’m also wondering if the other Doctor is from alternate timeline / world but how did she get here?

[DanaK]

I loved that the companions called the Doctor out on her behavior. She finally came somewhat clean to them at the beginning. She also knows something isn't quite right with the things that are happening and feels something is coming for her. That was a good scene at the end where the team said they were there for her

1 hour ago, rwlevin said:

I thought Bill was now traveling the universe as living water with her water girlfriend.

Yes, that was the last we saw of her in "The Doctor Falls". The special Twice Upon a Time brought her back as a memory but we don't know how long in her future that was from

 

2 hours ago, elle said:

As to Jack's warning about the lone Cyberman, ever since I heard there was a Mary Shelley episode I've theorized that they'll say that is the inspiration for Frankenstein's monster.  I'm sure I'm not the only one to think that.

I've been thinking it too

[springbarb]

19 minutes ago, DanaK said:

I think CGI de-aging is way too expensive for this show. I think they just dyed his hair as Barrowman has let his hair grow grey in real life. But I could be wrong

I agree--he's definitely aged since his previous appearances. It looked like they just dyed his hair.

I was SO excited to see him, though--and can't wait for him to pop back up again!

[Florinaldo]

Welcome back Captain Jack! We missed your double, triple and multiple entendres (especially the sex-tuple ones). Is it any surprise that even though Jack likes all three companions, his favourite is Ryan? Who also likes him (but probably not that way).

His voice was immediately recognizable and threw me back a few years, even before he appeared.  As for JB looking young, there are very traditional tricks still in use for actors; dying their hair or a good hairpiece (since he has indeed gone gray in real life), wisely applied make-up and well-chosen lighting. Not that he needs much to be caked on since he still looks more well preserved than many people I know of the same age. He was in Arrow this season and looked scandalously young.

This is the first episode in a very long time where I do not have the impression that the show is regurgitating its past or is following well-tested recipes. Is Doctor Ruth a version from an alternate Gallifrey, or another inteercalary one like the War Doctor? And what of the other secrets the Doctor is obviously carrying?

I hope they do something new with these premises and do not resort to easy outs, like lots of running around and a rushed explanation to wrap things up, as has been done so often.

[DanaK]

From Radio Times, Barrowman faked a home renovation to cover his time in Cardiff (but then ended up really doing a renovation) https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-01-26/john-barrowman-fake-renovation-doctor-who/

The fanbase is really going berserk over this episode, mostly in a good way

Location filming tidbit: They really did film in Gloucester, especially in and around the Cathedral, though I don't know where else they filmed

[Starchild]

51 minutes ago, rwlevin said:

I have seen the first episode (the unearthly child) so I can answer this. It got stuck as a police box in the first episode. When The Doctor and his companions landed in the prehistoric time, Susan mentions that the Tardis still looked like a police box (and she explains how the chameleon circuit works) indicating that the chameleon circuit worked before the series started.
 

Speaking of which, Ruth really reminded me of One who always seemed to me the most serious and least friendly of all the doctors. I’m sure we’ll see her again. And I hope we see Captain Jack again soon.

So if there was no police box Tardis before One, and we've seen every regeneration onscreen, this has to be alternate timeline, right?

[DanaK]

Another Radio Times interview with Barrowman, probably just a longer version of the one I posted previously https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-01-26/how-doctor-who-brought-john-barrowmans-captain-jack-back-to-the-tardis/

[Rhetorica]

43 minutes ago, DanaK said:

I loved that the companions called the Doctor out on her behavior. She finally came somewhat clean to them at the beginning. She also knows something isn't quite right with the things that are happening and feels something is coming for her. That was a good scene at the end where the team said they were there for her

Yes, that was the last we saw of her in "The Doctor Falls". The special Twice Upon a Time brought her back as a memory but we don't know how long in her future that was from

I do remember that now. I found the storyline about her turning into a Cyberman horrid. Almost as bad as Donna's mind wipe. I suppose that's why I forgot the rest if her timeline 

[AudienceofOne]

I loved every minute of that 

 

2 hours ago, ybrik said:

Also this Doctor would have to be really early before 4 at least since she didn't know about the sonic screwdriver.

I'm going with, this is a regeneration of the Doctor before the "first" doctor. So for some reason the Doctor's first body was mind-wiped and forcibly regenerated. That explains why s/he was working for the timelords. It also explains why the "first" doctor stole the TARDIS and ran away and why they like Earth so much. On some level, s/he 'remembered' her time on Earth so that's where s/he ran when s/he left to travel with h/er granddaughter. 

[DanaK]

There are so many questions this episode raised.

Jack talked about several things, number one being the lone Cyberman, but also some Alliance he was working for or with (that's possibly from the future), along with a few other tidbits he dropped

Ruth used to work for Gat and if they were all Gallifreyan, it appears it maybe had something to do with the military. Our Doctor refused to go into the military as a young man because of his pacifist beliefs and instead chose the Timelord Academy. But Ruth apparently went into the military or similar thing and was forced to continue to work for Gat or something where one can't leave easily. Also Ruth is more easily violent than our Doctor and seems to have more martial skills, so she was trained for force in some way. And Gat and Ruth didn't know about Gallifrey's current destruction, but I'm not clear if they knew about the previous destruction

Lots of stuff to parse through

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by DanaK

[DavidJSnyder]

You can conceivably stick incarnations between the Second and Third Doctors because we didn’t see that regeneration. So say the Time Lords made him an agent and then mindwiped him and gave him more regenerations to cover it up.  (And you ignore Clara traveling through his history.)

Not saying that is a good idea to do, but it would explain why the TARDIS is a police box in it.

[Bruinsfan]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

So if there was no police box Tardis before One, and we've seen every regeneration onscreen, this has to be alternate timeline, right?

I have a hunch this might be a change in the Doctor's history that's somehow, impossibly, interacting with the unchanged version, rather than one from a different parallel universe. Like how events in "The Last of the Time Lords" were in a temporarily changed 21st century without negating the future existence of the Toclofane.

The presence of Gat indicates something weird is happening—if she's from the Gallifrey we last saw located 4 billion years in the future she should be well aware that 21st century Earth is positively riddled with multiple incarnations of the Doctor, and that killing an unsuspected past version of her would be Extra Double Plus No Good. As the Master himself notably said, “A universe without the Doctor doesn't bear thinking about.” Interfering with the Doctor's history prior to Season 8 could undo Gallifrey being saved from the Time War with the Daleks, and if you go back much further than that you hit more than one universe-wide armageddon that the Doctor averted.