S02.E08: Episode 8

[OtterMommy]

Quote

The talking cure may be failing Otis and Jean as they sort out their issues.  A wary Maeve makes the finals.  Sexy Shakespeare never goes out of style.

Netflix drop date: January 17, 2020

[Prower]

I just love this show too much. I binged it in one night and now I'm overtired and sad, sad that I have to wait another year to get more of it.

The sex- Romeo and Juliett musical was amazing. I would totally go see the whole thing.

So glad that Adam plucked up the courage to hold Eric's hand in front of everybody. I hope we can build on that next season and don't have some contrived bullshit to split them up again.

Speaking of contrived bullshit that is there to keep characters apart. The part at the end. I mean come on. I'm not saying that wheelchair-asshole wouldn't do something like that, it seems completely in his chharacter, but the rest?

So Maeve comes over and he says "make me a sandwich!" and she's all "okay, I guess I have nothing better to do in my grief", okay maybe I buy this part. But then he has really nothing to eat in the fridge... curious his brother seems to run a pretty good ship, but okay, fridges are empty sometimes... But then Maeve also doesn't seem to have anything in her fridge she can get to make, so instead of saying "ah well screw it, it was more of a disctraction-thing anyway and none of us is really hungry" she decides to walk to the store, that is god knows where, certainly not close to the trailer park, at night.

But before she does so, she leaves her phone on the table. Thing is, she has it in her hand for no fucking reason. We see her hugging a pillow in her trailer and next scene she is knocking on assholes trailer with the phone in her hand. Why would she have it in her hand? She clearly didn't check her messages. The othher trailer is across the way from her and stuff is brightly lit. So it wasn't the flashlight either. Speaking of the flashlight, How would she not notice that she is missing it, once she walks away from thhe trailers, over that ridge, where she would need the flashlight to see.

And of course then Otis comes by and basically tells asshole to delete the message. You know I might have felt this was more believeable if that interaction hadn't happened and asshole just decided out of his pure assholishness to snoop in the phone of the girl he likes.

But the worst part: Do you seriously expect me to believe that Maeve doesn't lock her phone? At least with face recognition or finger print? The smartes girl around with MASSIVE trust issues? She doesn't lock her phone? Suuuuure, writers, suuuure.

I mean there is contrived and then there is this bullshit. They better retcon this asap next season.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Prower

[pootlus]

Yeah that ending was just shitty plot development.  I assume they're confident of renewal so that we get Season 3 where the inevitable happens and Otis and Maeve finally get together?  

To be honest they dragged a few cliches up this episode - Jean's highly unlikely pregnancy (I thought they were going to tell her she had breast cancer or a heart condition!) and of course Maeve's mum fell off the wagon.

Mind you I like that although Isaac is smart and funny and utterly without self-pity he's also a manipulative dick, there's nothing worse than being scared of giving a character with a disability some negative attributes and so they end up being a completely unrealistic saint.

[Chaos Theory]

I really love this show and some of the plot developments were really good.    I love Adam and his coming to terms with his sexuality and his final “I want to hold your hand” to Eric.  Loved Eric’s family reaction to him as well.   It’s interesting that they think Adam makes Eric sparkle.

I actually really liked the Issac turn in this.  I saw it coming for awhile.   He is manipulative and not above using his disability to his advantage.   Plus I like that the show isn’t afraid to make Issac just as big an asshole as anyone else on the show.   

Edited January 19, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[beeemkcl]

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD:

 

* Yes, the phone thing and the not-meet-up is contrived. But it's not as if Otis won't see Maeve at school.

The wheelchair-guy is literally there as a guy 'on Maeve's level'. Maeve still has inferiority issues with her socioeconomic status. And Otis is actually possibly the richest kid in school. His mother is a very successful psychiatrist and best-selling author and his father is a very successful psychiatrist and best-selling author. Otis is very likely a trust fund kid.

The Season literally showed that Otis never needed the money he got from The Clinic and was mostly doing it to be around Maeve and have power and influence in the school.

 

* I think next Season may have the possibility of Maeve being destined for Oxbridge and how she'll handle that versus maybe Otis going to a lesser school.

But I was actually surprised the Season made Otis/Maeve believable.

The Otis/Ruby thing was interesting in that it touched Maeve's insecurity regarding Maeve's relative poverty. And there was hint Otis/Ruby was possible in the future.

 

* Still, it is annoying we'll have to wait another Season for Otis/Maeve to happen. And wheelchair guy is lesser than Otis in every way: wealth, status, looks, education, etc. Jackson was actual competition.

Edited January 20, 2020 by beeemkcl

[ShortyMac]

20 hours ago, Prower said:

But the worst part: Do you seriously expect me to believe that Maeve doesn't lock her phone? At least with face recognition or finger print? The smartes girl around with MASSIVE trust issues? She doesn't lock her phone? Suuuuure, writers, suuuure.

I mean there is contrived and then there is this bullshit. They better retcon this asap next season.

That is what annoys me the most. 

I loved the solidarity with all of the girls helping Aimee.

Adam hugging Ola and saying that no one had ever called him a friend before was sweet.

I wonder how the pregnancy thing with Jean and Jakob will shake out.

I'm sad that I watched the new season in two days, and it's already over.

[Samwise979]

This show had me riiiiiiight up until the end when THE most clichéd thing happened and then THE biggest eye roll happened. 

Even if the phone's not locked, to check your voice mail you need a password. 

I would have loved it if at the end when they were showing Maeve walking and then Otis walking they all of a sudden saw eachother and Otis tells her everything. It could still end on a cliff hanger with Maeve not saying anything before the credits roll but at least then the erased phone message is moot. 

That play was all kinds of awesome. 

Anyone shipping Jackson and Viv? She's totally crushing on him. He's not there yet. 

Idk how I feel about Eric and Adam honestly. Adam made Eric's life a living hell and I can't understand how Eric can just forgive him. If they want me to like this couple they need more development next season. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Samwise979

[juno]

On 1/18/2020 at 1:46 AM, Prower said:

I just love this show too much. I binged it in one night and now I'm overtired and sad, sad that I have to wait another year to get more of it.

The sex- Romeo and Juliett musical was amazing. I would totally go see the whole thing.

So glad that Adam plucked up the courage to hold Eric's hand in front of everybody. I hope we can build on that next season and don't have some contrived bullshit to split them up again.

Speaking of contrived bullshit that is there to keep characters apart. The part at the end. I mean come on. I'm not saying that wheelchair-asshole wouldn't do something like that, it seems completely in his chharacter, but the rest?

So Maeve comes over and he says "make me a sandwich!" and she's all "okay, I guess I have nothing better to do in my grief", okay maybe I buy this part. But then he has really nothing to eat in the fridge... curious his brother seems to run a pretty good ship, but okay, fridges are empty sometimes... But then Maeve also doesn't seem to have anything in her fridge she can get to make, so instead of saying "ah well screw it, it was more of a disctraction-thing anyway and none of us is really hungry" she decides to walk to the store, that is god knows where, certainly not close to the trailer park, at night.

But before she does so, she leaves her phone on the table. Thing is, she has it in her hand for no fucking reason. We see her hugging a pillow in her trailer and next scene she is knocking on assholes trailer with the phone in her hand. Why would she have it in her hand? She clearly didn't check her messages. The othher trailer is across the way from her and stuff is brightly lit. So it wasn't the flashlight either. Speaking of the flashlight, How would she not notice that she is missing it, once she walks away from thhe trailers, over that ridge, where she would need the flashlight to see.

And of course then Otis comes by and basically tells asshole to delete the message. You know I might have felt this was more believeable if that interaction hadn't happened and asshole just decided out of his pure assholishness to snoop in the phone of the girl he likes.

But the worst part: Do you seriously expect me to believe that Maeve doesn't lock her phone? At least with face recognition or finger print? The smartes girl around with MASSIVE trust issues? She doesn't lock her phone? Suuuuure, writers, suuuure.

I mean there is contrived and then there is this bullshit. They better retcon this asap next season.

I totally agree. I can't believe they are pulling the same shipping crap from the first season.

While this is a good show, eventually I get too tired of the boring cliches that keep them apart. Do us a favor show get Otis a new girlfriend and move on! Such a crappy ending.

[DoctorAtomic]

Stephen Fry out of nowhere!

I've always enjoyed James Purefoy and wished there was a little more of him in this series.

'I thought you were a lesbian and into kitchen shit' - has got to be the most ridiculously hilarious thing Adam has ever said. But I was laughing that he busted on to the stage and then had to stop because he was panting from running. I really liked Eric's family being so nice to him. I think that's the first time on the show he's genuinely smiled.

Wow, the other team had 86 points at the break and only 88 at the end. They got smashed. Of course Aimee is that friend who makes the sign though.

I really liked the camera work in the social services scene - all shaky and disorienting.

On 1/18/2020 at 1:46 AM, Prower said:

The sex- Romeo and Juliett musical was amazing. I would totally go see the whole thing.

I can't imagine a real high school would let them do such a racy production. I'm glad Marchetti was able to get the scene out. I actually liked Hendricks telling him to just get out there.

I mean, the whole everyone standing up at the play is silly but hilarious.

16 hours ago, Samwise979 said:

Even if the phone's not locked, to check your voice mail you need a password. 

Yeah, but it's not like Otis isn't going to say 'did you get my message' next time he sees her anyway. I don't get the point of this. Plus, with people literally never talking on the phone much anymore, especially younger people, seeing a voice mail, you're going to check it sooner than later.

 

 

[Fiftyninth]

Well, the scene at the convenience store with Ola getting fired too was absolutely not cliche. I certainly didn’t see that backfiring on her so spectacularly. 

[DoctorAtomic]

That got another big laugh from me.

[possibilities]

There's no doubt that the show is flawed, but I love it anyway. I binged it in one irresponsible all-nighter, so it's hard to comment because I'm afraid I'm mixing up what happened in which episode, and I don't want to post in the wrong threads. But I thought this season was even stronger than the first, which is rare.

[beeemkcl]

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD:

 

 

* Maeve is so in love with Otis that she didn’t even kiss anyone in Season 2. She actually suffered more through Otis/Ola than Otis ever suffered through Maeve/Jackson.

 

The Party is such a big deal for Maeve because Otis literally tells almost the entire school that he considers he could ‘do much better’ than Maeve.

 

The Otis/Ruby thing hits Maeve so hard because of Ruby’s socioeconomic status. And the school considers Ruby of at least around similar beauty/hotness as Maeve.

 

All this is to say that there wouldn’t be a cliffhanger if Otis actually saw Maeve or if Maeve simply heard the voicemail.

 

Wheelchair guy isn’t actual competition for Otis. What could be interesting is if Maeve meets someone while doing college tours or whatever.

 

 

* As I said, Otis/Ruby could be interesting. Otis dated a plumber’s daughter whom he told her that she was several levels beneath Maeve in physical attractiveness, but that was when his self-esteem was lower. Now he knows Maeve is in love with him and Otis/Ruby is a real possibility.

 

Maeve is currently poor, but she could easily become a lawyer/barrister. Or a successful writer. She’s not destined to remain poor.

 

But Otis seemed willing to marry and a raise a child with Ruby.

 

Anyway, Otis has been attracted to Maeve for years. To have competition, the show would need to introduce a girl/woman of at least similar beauty/hotness and intelligence and drive—that is into Otis—to be actual competition to Maeve. And that’s not easy, as Maeve is easily arguably the best-looking female student at the school and she’s literally among the several smartest people in the school.

 

 

* The not meet-up between Otis and Maeve is clearly mostly there to get another Season.

 

I consider Maeve purposefully left her phone there and unlocked to ascertain whether wheelchair-guy is even actually a good guy.

 

 

* No TV series is perfect, but this series is arguably the best teen series since Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1-S3.

[festivus]

Lily's show was the BEST. I love her.

Otis and Maeve's romance is the most boring thing about the show but that was some contrived bullshit at the end. I'm really not up for another season of the will they won't they. Just get them together and see if they would or would not work. That would be more interesting.

[DoctorAtomic]

Otis and Ruby isn't going to be a thing. She said she hooked up because she was feeling sad she that guys like Otis are easily manipulated. She may hit him up to hook up again but that's it. 

[lh25]

17 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Yeah, but it's not like Otis isn't going to say 'did you get my message' next time he sees her anyway.

He may not.  He put himself out there and he might take her silence as her rejecting him and his declaration of love.  Pride gets in the way of so many relationships.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't know. I suppose. It's still quite a contrivance. It's more likely if she confided in him about the mother and sister that he'd back off because she's upset. I mean, the whole ending was a bit much.

[Evie]

The ending was contrived, but I still enjoyed this season, even more than the first. The romance is my least favorite part so what I particularly appreciate about this show is that they explore friendships and family too. 

[beeemkcl]

* In Season 1, Maeve becomes less interested in Jackson and more interested in Otis after Jackson becomes less dedicated to swimming and starts drinking and such. He suddenly became someone maybe ‘not going places’.

 

If Jackson might become a successful actor, Maeve may become interested in Jackson again.

 

For the United States, the school would be considered middle class and possibly lower upper middle class. Other than perhaps Aimee, Otis, Jackson, and Ruby, there isn’t much indication most of the rest of the student body is well-off.

 

* While I feel bad for Maeve in Season 2, she did string Otis along for all of Season 1 until she dumped Jackson. And when she started dating Jackson and Maeve/Jackson was going well, she was barely interacting with Otis—especially outside of The Clinic.

 

Yet in Season 2, she complains to Otis that Otis is always hanging out with Ola…

 

 

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD:

 

 

* The Otis/Maeve ‘romance’ is what much-to-most of the series revolves around. I don’t see how it’s boring given how interesting it is.

 

Maeve starts thinking of her possible great future because of Otis’s encouragement. She wouldn’t likely even be in the aptitude scheme and class were not for Otis. She wouldn’t be on the Quiz Team.

 

And Maeve is arguably the primary reason Otis/Ola happens. And is the reason Otis/Ruby happened.

 

 

* I said Otis/Ruby is a possibility for Season 3. Not wanting Otis’s child when Ruby’s still in high school doesn’t indicate that she’d never actually date him in Season 3.

 

 

* Otis asked wheelchair-guy to tell Maeve to check her messages. Wheelchair-guy is clearly into Maeve and sees Otis as THE prime obstacle to Maeve’s dating wheelchair-guy.

 

Otis is unlikely not to check-in with Maeve again.

 

 

* Otis already knows Maeve’s family is ‘messed up’. The problems with her mother and her half-sister wouldn’t prevent Otis from dating Maeve. If anything, it’d inspire him to try to get her to believe even more in herself.

Edited January 20, 2020 by beeemkcl

[Prower]

On 1/19/2020 at 11:54 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Yeah, but it's not like Otis isn't going to say 'did you get my message' next time he sees her anyway. I don't get the point of this. Plus, with people literally never talking on the phone much anymore, especially younger people, seeing a voice mail, you're going to check it sooner than later.

Yeah, the writers totally aren't going to drag this out over at least half the season, probably longer. Nuh, uh. No, sir. That's why they spent so much energy constructing this contrived scenario, because they are not going to capitalize on it. I repeat, they are not going to do it!

Edited January 21, 2020 by Prower

[ahisma]

LOVED Lily’s musical vision. It was one of her comics come to life.

I think Otis broke something in that school last season when he told Jackson to make a big gesture to win Maeve. Now this season he stood on a sofa and called for silence to spill all his feelings about Ola and Maeve, that guy (Kyle?) wrote lipstick murals to Ms. Sands, and Adam leapt onstage in the middle of the musical to profess his affection for Eric. 

Uuuuuuugh. How did I binge this in one day? I can’t wait for next season! 

Edited January 22, 2020 by ahisma

[DoctorAtomic]

The only thing they didn't really address, when everyone was saying how Jean helped them was that Otis and Maeve were generally correct in their advice. Even if a lot of it was 'don't do it if you don't want to' or 'see a doctor.'

I mean, I get running the business wasn't really above board, but still.

[beeemkcl]

* I’m again surprised at how the series made Otis/Maeve make sense. I also consider Otis probably stayed with Ola partly as punishment for Maeve’s being with Jackson and staying with Jackson.

And I consider Maeve didn’t approach Otis sooner after Season 1 because of Maeve’s socioeconomic status. Maeve was kicked out of school. And when she’s back, Ola is also in the ‘smart kid class’ and such. Maeve approaches Otis after she wins her first Quiz Team match and very likely after knowing Otis is about to have sex with Ola.

 

 

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD

 

* Drunk Otis is there to further indicate that Otis is somewhat like his father. And that includes there’s no guarantee that Otis wouldn’t cheat on Maeve.

 

Drunk Otis is also there to indicate Otis’s social status at the school. Otis is arguably now the most popular kid in school. And his mother is now a great strength to that popularity.

 

Maeve is currently the love of Jackson’s life and Otis said that Otis could actually ‘do much better’.

 

* Jean was considered superior to Otis mainly because Jean wasn’t charging the students money for her services. And she at times gave better advice than Otis did.

 

* Jean is a ‘renowned’ sex therapist and best-selling author. The scandal could hurt her career. Otis and Maeve are students. The money they got could simply be considered gifts from the students. The only trouble they could possibly get into is tax problems.

[ruby24]

Wow, that deleting the voicemail thing was such an unbelievable cliche. And the way that that happened in the final scene tells me that this show doesn't actually want Maeve and Otis to be together ON the show. It's gonna be something that doesn't happen until the series finale for some reason.

I really thought we were past this kind of shit? I have no patience for terrible romantic will they/won't they cliches anymore, and the ending of the first season was bad enough. The fact that they did this two seasons in a row tells me they don't really want to put these two together, because now it's obviously not going to happen for yet another entire season.

That is really lazy and really lame.

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The only thing they didn't really address, when everyone was saying how Jean helped them was that Otis and Maeve were generally correct in their advice. Even if a lot of it was 'don't do it if you don't want to' or 'see a doctor.'

I mean, I get running the business wasn't really above board, but still.

I think it would be interesting if Jeanne's distinction of "a casual conversation" (vs a business where he charges money) comes into consideration. Though this season Otis really needed advice as much as he had any to offer.

That business with the orange was horrifying. My favorite thing, though, was probably when they all got the tutorial on anal douching, from Eric's boyfriend.

(I used spoiler tags because I can't remember which episode those incidents occurred in)

Edited January 21, 2020 by possibilities

[Aulty]

How cool would it be if series 3 started on the same night as the series 2 finale and the first scene was Otis catching up with Maeve and they finally sort themselves out while wheelchair dude waits in vain.

Alas, we probably have to sit through Otis getting a bit more sex and relationship experience with someone else before they finally get him and Maeve together. They won't wait too long though, I hope, because there is a lot of material there once they open that can of love, angst, doubt, working things out together and basically putting them in their client's shoes.

But right now, I am utterly annoyed by how they chose to end the second series. Its the OC level bad.

Congratulations Eric, I am sure Adam's elephant sized dick will present them with a few issues to get into next season. I don't think Otis dating Ruby is that far fetched because being adjecent to the Untouchables would, socially, create some distance between him and Maeve and Eric.

[DoctorAtomic]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Though this season Otis really needed advice as much as he had any to offer.

So did Jean though. It's kind of a typical cliche for characters like that. But again, when Jean invited Otis to sit down and therapize her, he wasn't wrong. 

She was mad because he charged money, which was unethical. She never really said anything about the advice her gave. 

It could have been more a blow to her ego and reputation than anything. 

She was also more mad imo that he didn't just own up to it when she revealed she knew. 

[galaxychaser]

Viv and Jackson are going to be a couple. 

Jean pregnant?! Haha.

[Chaos Theory]

Sex Education reminds me of the under rated Charlie Bartlett.  Its basically the movie version of this except in Charlie Bartlett Anton Yelchin (RIP) gives out meds mainly due to his over medicated mother but also hands out Genuinely good advise to his peers at his new school after he gets kicked out of a private school.     

What I liked about this show is that it is starting to pair people together for unusual reasons like Jackson and Viv.  I thought they make an interesting pair and really like them together.  I also like Jackson and his two mothers and what the show is doing with them.   

Next season if anything I would love to see Adam and Eric deal with their relationship and maybe have Adam spend some time with Eric's family.  

Edited January 22, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[beeemkcl]

Before I forget to write this: The dance in S01:E07 arguably indicated that Otis was already arguably at least among the most popular people in the school. The entire dancefloor was cleared for his and Eric’s dancing together.

 

It’d be interesting for Maeve to meet Remi. She was intimidated by Jackson’s family, but they are upper middle class at most. The Milburns are actually rich—worth possibly 8-figures. Maybe Otis and Maeve visit Remi in the United States?

 

Remi is semi-famous and obviously has connections with publishers. Maeve is a great writer…

 

 

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD:

 

 

* We must remember the series is only 16 episodes in. The episodes aren’t even hour-long. We’ve gotten around less than a regular full 22-episode TV series.

 

In some ways, it wouldn’t have been any more ‘climatic’ had Otis/Maeve gotten together or even merely kissed in the last scene of S02E08.

 

Season 1 had Otis not even able to mast(rbate until S1E08. Season 2 had Otis with Ola and still not sexually progressing much.

 

We’ll see how Season 3 goes.

 

 

* Jean was doing research in the school. And she was getting material for a book that might net her 7-figures or heck even 8-figures. She wasn’t ‘doing it for free’. Remi Milburn has at least 2 international Number 1 bestsellers, and 3 including the one he made with Jean.

 

Remi has other children, but Otis is likely the first born and probably most liked. Remi is getting divorced, but it's unlikely he didn't have a per-nupital agreement and he doesn't seem at all concerned about the financial cost of the divorce; so, Otis is likely getting a relatively hefty inheritance.

 

Otis doesn’t need the money from The Clinic, but Maeve did. The only reason she wasn’t struggling in Season 2 is her mother left her a small stack of cash.

 

 

* It doesn’t seem Maeve was a virgin before having sex with Jackson. It seems she literally has sex with Jackson the night of the day he expressed interest in her. We still don’t know when Maeve lost her virginity. It’s possible Jackson was her first actual boyfriend.

 

I’m not sure it’s a bad thing if Otis ‘sows his oats’ at some point. He doesn’t even remember his time with Ruby.

 

However, given the series title, maybe Maeve teaches Otis about sex.

 

 

* Regarding the Sex Clinic, Jean is likely mostly upset because Otis kept such a big secret from her. Was she actually angry that Otis charged money?

Edited January 25, 2020 by beeemkcl
Remi has boys with Delilah and he's getting divorced

[DoctorAtomic]

I think yes about the money because she said it was 'unethical' several times as a separate issue of lying to her about it. And it is. Taking the money presents himself as a professional, which he is not. If they took anonymous questions and wrote a blog with their advice it wouldn't probably be as big a deal even though their advice was helpful. 

Funny enough though - Instead of just confronting Otis because she knew it was true, she still needed to go through all of Otis' things to find the bankroll anyway. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by DoctorAtomic

[possibilities]

I think she's also assuming his advice was bad. I wonder how she'd handle it if she actually knew what he'd told people, and especially if she knew about the ways Otis (and Maeve) did help sometimes.

[Prower]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think she's also assuming his advice was bad. I wonder how she'd handle it if she actually knew what he'd told people, and especially if she knew about the ways Otis (and Maeve) did help sometimes.

Now that you bring up the quality of his advice. It's curious how the writers made him worse at it this season. The asexual girl seems like something he shouldn't have missed. I figured that one out early on and I'm not a sex-guru.

I'm wondering if they made him worse to give Jean something to do and have her have a point when she is berating him in this episode, or if it was to show that he is off his game without Maeve being there... maybe a bit of both.

[DoctorAtomic]

He didn't want to do it this year, so his advice was just go to the doctor. 

To be fair, listing all the sexual partners and informing them was the right thing to do. The girls lied about the one boy. And Otis correctly pointed out that everyone was flying off the handle way before Jean did. 

I think TPTBs point was that it didn't work unless Otis and Maeve were both invested. 

I'm hoping the quality of Otis' advice does come up because its omission seemed rather glaring. Jean didn't even ask or Otis didn't defend it? 

[VagueDisclaimer]

On 1/21/2020 at 3:12 AM, ruby24 said:

Wow, that deleting the voicemail thing was such an unbelievable cliche. And the way that that happened in the final scene tells me that this show doesn't actually want Maeve and Otis to be together ON the show. It's gonna be something that doesn't happen until the series finale for some reason.

I really thought we were past this kind of shit? I have no patience for terrible romantic will they/won't they cliches anymore, and the ending of the first season was bad enough. The fact that they did this two seasons in a row tells me they don't really want to put these two together, because now it's obviously not going to happen for yet another entire season.

That is really lazy and really lame.

Agreed. Additionally, the reason why anyone wanted to have Otis and Maeve together romantically was due to the appreciation of their dynamics within a friendship. That they completely sidelined that friendship in S2, barely had them interact without animosity was a mistake, imo. I missed their relationship throughout the season and I felt frustrated and dragged around just so the show could play the will-they-won’t-they game. Shows too often prefer that game rather than actually writing for the couple and that’s why the quality and draw can peter off with those kinds of storylines. 

I hope the show decides to resolve things early on in S3 and we actually see them work through things as a romantic couple already. 

On another note, while I can appreciate Adam’s development and his want to change, I still find it very difficult to embrace the Adam/Eric relationship due to its origins. It’s part of a really dangerous and troubling trope when it comes to fictional portrayals romantic stories involving gay boys/men and I absolutely hated the Adam/Eric hookup last season. And while they kind of addressed the problem this season through Otis and while I appreciated that acknowledgement, it’s not enough and it’s possible it might never be for me. I certainly wasn’t fond of his grand romantic gesture, the end scene running to confess one’s love cliche. I hope their relationship is handled thoughtfully next season. an aside? Poor Rahim 😕

[beeemkcl]

* It’s possible Maeve Wiley heard the voicemail Otis Milburn left her. It has been on her phone for possibly hours and she would have seen Otis left her a message. She could simply be seeing how Isaac would react to hers leaving her phone with him.

 

I’m not sure why Maeve is smiling when looking up at the stars other than she won the Quiz Heads thing and her future is possibly now bright as a shining star.

 

Maeve would clearly like that Otis is in love with her, but she could still be uncertain about Otis/Maeve. Isaac is correct that Otis lives in a different world than she does. And Otis got with Ola instead of Maeve even though he drunkenly admitted to the school and both Maeve and Ola that he didn’t actually want to be with Ola and that he wanted to be with Maeve. But then Otis drunkenly tells the school and Maeve that he considers she’s the most selfish person he’s ever met. Given S01E05 is when Maeve fell in love with Otis (or realizes she is), that stung. And Otis had sex with Ruby Mathews.

 

Was Maeve actually intimidated by Jackson Marchetti’s social class (upper middle class at most)? Maeve’s best friend is Aimee Gibbs, who is clearly at least lower upper class. And does Maeve know anything about Otis’s father? Even as-is, Maeve knows Otis is at least upper middle class when simply including his mother and him. So, in reality, Maeve likely flakes on Jackson’s family dinner because Maeve doesn’t actually love Jackson.

 

But Maeve decides to stay in her caravan park rather than go to the school play even though she earlier told Otis that she might go to the play after the Quiz Team finals. Maeve could simply not be ready or willing to deal with Otis/Maeve hours after still was "disappointed" in Otis. She can see Otis at school the next day; she can see whether Isaac would try to sabotage Otis/Maeve (meaning whether she’d still want Isaac as a friend); she can see if Otis tries to see her that night.

 

Finally, Maeve might not even fully trust Otis’s declaration of love. What if Ruby were smart?

 

The most Otis sacrificed for Maeve is continuing to help in S01E05 instead of go be with Eric Effoing and Otis ‘stole’ the writing trophy and gave it to Maeve. Maeve in S01E01 ‘took for fall’ for Otis. She doesn’t even consider sharing the blame then and doesn’t even consider sharing the blame in S01E08. Maeve is celibate very likely after S01E06 (after sniffing Otis’s ‘jumper’/sweater). She's been 'pining' for Otis from the end of S01E06 throughout S02E08.

 

And Maeve is very jealous and very hurt by Otis/Ola. And then by Otis/Ruby. Otis didn’t actually seem relatively jealous of Maeve/Jackson and actually made them a couple in the first place. And then doesn’t get with Maeve after she dumps Jackson. Otis is jealous of Maeve and Isaac, but that gets drunk Otis to dance with other girls, dance beside Maeve but not with Maeve (meaning he doesn’t even try to touch her), and then to insult Maeve, and then to make out with other girls and have sex with Ruby.

 

So, Maeve declares her love for Otis to Otis and Otis stays with Ola. Otis texts Maeve that he cannot see Maeve anymore. Ola dumps Otis. Otis throws a party and doesn’t invite Maeve. Maeve shows up and that ends up with Otis insulting Maeve and having sex with Ruby.

 

Otis might need to do more than a voicemail to demonstrate to Maeve that he’s in love with her. In S01E8, he wrote a hand-written letter to her, wrapped ‘her’ trophy, and hand delivered it.

 

Jackson Marchetti actually lived with Maeve.

 

 

 

 

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD:

 

 

 

* It’s still doubtful that Otis Milburn’s charging money for his advice is actually what got Jean Milburn so upset. Jean wasn’t at the school when Otis was doing The Clinic. The students needed Otis’s advice, were glad for it, and Otis helped a lot of people and Jean knows all of this. The students preferred Jean because she didn’t charge them money—many to most likely would have stayed with The Clinic if they’d known Jean was taking notes so that she could use those notes in a book—and she was more qualified than Otis.

 

And if Remi Milburn was on campus, most students likely would have gone to Remi instead of Jean simply because Remi is much more renowned.

 

 

* Jean’s advice wasn’t always perfect. Otis actually helped Olivia. Jean freaked out Olivia’s boyfriend.

 

Otis was largely distracted when he’s giving the ‘asexual’ girl advice.

 

And, frankly, it’s possible the asexual girl is NOT asexual. She may have simply not met the ‘right person’. Otis himself could have been categorized as asexual. Maeve Wiley was shocked and bewildered that Otis was a virgin. It took his relationships with Maeve and Ola for Otis to even ‘wa)k’. And Eric Effiong had to force Otis to pursue Otis/Maeve. And Eric encouraged Otis to have sex with Ola even though Otis was having doubts.

 

Jean is very clinical and immediately categorizes clients.

 

 

OTIS/MAEVE:

 

* Otis/Maeve is so interesting because of (1) the dynamics between them including the looks of the actors, the school dynamics, society (including social classes [Maeve is ‘working poor’ at best and Otis is lower upper class at worst]), etc., (2) the chemistry and acting abilities of the actors, (3) the extraordinary writing of Otis/Maeve, (4) the reasons why they aren’t together, and (5) because it manages to be realistic—and not necessarily in that order.

 

Otis/Maeve are never truly a platonic friendship. Otis is physically attracted to Maeve before they bump into each other in S01E01 and it’s arguable Maeve is already developing feelings for Otis during the sex therapy session he does with Adam Groff.

 

Part of the dynamic is Otis’s initial attraction to Maeve is her looks and he doesn’t ‘fall for her’ until he learns about her mind. And his interest grows in her as she better utilizes that mind (the aptitude scheme, Quiz Heads, etc.). This works excellently in Season 2.

 

On Maeve’s side, in S01E03, she says Otis is ‘not her type’. But when Jackson Marchetti displays things in common with Maeve and Maeve starts considering whether to have Jackson as a boyfriend, the Pool Scene between Otis/Maeve is telling.

 

- Maeve actually likes Otis and actually has fun with him. She’s mostly simply f)king Jackson.

 

- Maeve created a scenario in which the school would know Otis and she were swimming together. But then Otis tells her to leave and he stays in the pool.

 

- In S01E05, she essentially chooses to be around Otis rather than stay at Jackson’s family dinner.

 

- In S01E05, Otis/Maeve ramps up because Maeve considers there is real risk that she may lose Otis. In Amy Gibbs house, Otis decides to leave Maeve to go be with Eric. Maeve then greatly strengthens Otis/Maeve by confiding in Otis the origin of how she’s an ‘outcast’—the origin of her being “Co(kbiter”.

 

Essentially, Maeve gets jealous of Otis-Eric and gets Otis to stay with her instead of go be with Eric.

 

Maeve gets jealous when she sees Otis interacting with Ola. I’m not sure if Maeve before this realizes she is or simply was sexually attracted to Otis.

 

Then obviously Otis messes up The Moment by blurting out he’s a virgin. And Maeve decides to fall back to Maeve/Jackson.

 

But S01E05 is when Maeve realizes she’s in love with Otis. “In love” means loving someone and wanting to have sex with that someone.

 

S01E05 has Otis demonstrating to Maeve that he loves her by staying with Maeve instead of being with Eric. But Otis’s sabotaging Maeve's kissing Otis signaled to Maeve that Otis maybe wasn’t in love with her.

 

The rest of Otis/Maeve in Season 1 is because of The Moment.

 

 

- Sidenote: I forgot that Maeve is 17 years old in S01E03 and she has another birthday in S02E03. I don’t recall Otis having a birthday in Season 2. Eric turns 17 years old in S01E05, and apparently Jackson Marchetti and Rudy Mathews were already 17 years old before S01E01.

 

 

* Otis in S01E08 doesn’t actually consider Maeve ‘out of his league’ given The Moment and everything after shows him that Maeve is clearly interested in him. Otis chooses Ola because Ola is safe, not into anyone else, Otis/Ola has no drama, and Otis doesn’t know Maeve is in love with him. Otis considers Maeve is interested in him, probably wants to date him, and would have dumped Jackson for him, but Otis is in love with Maeve and decides he cannot be with Maeve unless she’s in love with him and so he decides to see if Otis/Ola can be something.

 

 

* Otis doesn’t seem to know that Maeve in S01E08 ‘took the fall’ for him. I consider Otis wouldn’t have chosen Ola if he knew what Maeve did for him.

 

 

* Otis/Maeve in Season 2 couldn’t have been much different—other than the ending—given what happened in S01E08. Maeve was too insecure, chickened out, and didn’t tell Otis she’s in love with him. Otis invests in Otis/Ola and tries to ‘get over’ Maeve even though he clearly never does and flirts with Maeve throughout Season 2.

 

Otis in Season 2 wanted Maeve to tell him she’s in love with him. But he gets angry with her that she doesn’t do that until he’s about to have sex with Ola Nyman. And that results in the ending of Otis/Ola. The rest of the Season seemingly all happens within a few days (less than a week?) after Maeve essentially told Otis she loved him.

Edited January 26, 2020 by beeemkcl
The Moment and such happens in S01E05. I had written "S01E04"

[Chaos Theory]

I might be the only person who doesn’t care it Otis and Maeve get together.   They are both interesting as independent character but make a boring trite couple.  

[beeemkcl]

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD:

 

* Otis Milburn and Maeve Wiley haven’t even kissed each other, and they are by far the most interesting, multi-layered, and compelling ‘ship in Sex Education and among the best pairings ever in television and film.

 

I don’t see how they are “boring” and “trite”. Name a comparable pairing in television and/or film.

[pfk505]

I cheered when wheelchair guy deleted the voicemail, despite how utterly and pathetically cliche it was. I really don't want a Otis/Maeve pairing because I really liked them as business partners and friends. This show has some great moments but ultimately its just window dressing on the same old tropes. My moneys on Otis not saying anything / taking her silence as rejection, etc. etc., drag it out until three quarters of the way through the season, and then somehow she finds out about the message, or he finally spills the beans, etc. etc. then some other bit of miscommunication keeps them apart again, until the inevitable finale where everything comes together.

Doesn't mean its not enjoyable though. Adam stole the season again.

Edited February 1, 2020 by pfk505

[Paloma]

On 1/21/2020 at 7:23 PM, galaxychaser said:

On 1/21/2020 at 7:40 PM, Chaos Theory said:

What I liked about this show is that it is starting to pair people together for unusual reasons like Jackson and Viv.  I thought they make an interesting pair and really like them together.  I also like Jackson and his two mothers and what the show is doing with them.

Viv and Jackson are going to be a couple. 

I hope they are not going to be a couple, because they are much better as friends and I am tired of almost every male-female friendship having to become a romance in TV and movies. I also have not seen any indication of sexual attraction between them--any hugging or other touching has been for comfort, reassurance, or celebration of friendship (in my mind).

I do like the story of Jackson's desperate reaction to the pressure he was under and his relationship with his non-bio mom and his reassurance to her. Normally I don't like jock / alpha male characters, but he is my favorite character next to Maeve. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing them get back together.

This season was overall much sadder than the first season, though there were still plenty of hilarious bits. It also seemed to have more unrealistic bits than the first season, such as the Romeo and Juliet musical (I agree with @DoctorAtomic that a real high school, at least in the US, would not allow such a racy production) and the apparent casualness and comfort that many of the kids have with different forms of sexuality (their own and others). Of course, I am the age of these kids' grandmothers, so maybe this is really the way things are now, or the way things are in England and other European countries--but it doesn't seem consistent with the many U.S. reports of bullying and attempted or completed suicide of bisexual, gay, lesbian, and trans teens, not to mention of girls who have sex with boys and then are called promiscuous. 

Although I agree with @ShortyMac about loving the solidarity of the girls with Aimee, it seemed unrealistic that all these girls from very different social groups and with very different personality types in high school would bond this way. But I'm willing to handwave that because I love Girl Power.

Perhaps most unrealistic to me was the idea of Adam running to the school to openly declare his love (or at least his desire to hold Eric's hand) on stage in the middle of the performance. That simply does not track with his personality and actions throughout the series. I could see his mother's words inspiring him to express his feeling to Eric privately, but not to do something that could humiliate him so publicly. I feel sorry for Adam and how his father treats him, but like @VagueDisclaimer I hate seeing a romantic relationship coming out of a bullying relationship, at least not without a lot more apologetic work done by Adam. I also just don't see why Eric is so attracted to Adam, and it didn't look to me like Eric was so much happier with him than he was with Rahim. Eric and Rahim seemed to have fun together, and Rahim was considerate, patient, and understanding. Rahim was Eric's boyfriend, and Eric just publicly humiliated him by accepting Adam's request to hold hands (and, presumably, become a couple). The whole way this played out just makes me not like either Eric or Adam, and certainly not as a couple.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Paloma
clarification

[idiotwaltz]

The voicemail thing was done on The Good Wife 10 years ago, and they did it damn well. Until the storyline was retconned in the final season anyway. 

I liked Season 1 a lot better than this season. Sick of the whole Otis/Maeve will-they-won’t-they. They will, and stringing it out is tiresome.

My favourite parts were Aimee and her PTSD after the bus incident, Jackson and Viv’s friendship, and Ola befriending Adam. 

[Aulty]

Izaak does not know a lot of the Maeve/Otis backstory and between witnessing Otis' drunk prick speech and his confession of love to Maeve over the phone he does not have any clue about who Otis really is. So from his POV deleting the voicemail could have been to save a girl he likes from heartbreak.

I hope we've seen the last of Mr. Groff

[HurricaneVal]

I have just finished bingeing both seasons (over the course of a week or so) and I just love this show.  It is smartly written, but the strength is in the caliber of the acting that takes that writing to the next level.  Seriously, are all young actors in the UK this good?  Why do we in the US accept the crappy teen/YA acting in shows like 90210 or Pretty Little Liars or Charmed?  Buffy the Vampire Slayer being the exception to that rule...

All the characters are terrific, but it is the unexpected friendships and relationships between them that make this so fantastic.  I think the theme of this show isn't in fact what it says on the tin: sex, but really: friendship.  In fact, this final S2 episode highlighted that nicely.  Ola and Lily, Ola and Adam, Viv and Jackson, Adam and Eric, Eric and Rahim, Jean and Maureen, Aimie and Maeve, Aimee and Steve, Maeve and Isaac, Maeve and Otis, and the original friendship, the one that started the series and has continued throughout, Otis and Eric.  

I really love the Jean and Maureen friendship, and Viv and Jackson.  I love how astonished snobbish and driven Viv is at Jackson's steadfast friendship.  He's a jock, he's head boy, he's popular, gorgeous, and everything she's not and everything she should resent, but he's there for her.  And she's there for him.  Jackson is a complex guy.  I like that.  They're all complex characters, even Steve, the body builder nerd.

Speaking of complex characters: I'm Team Adam all the way.  His has been the best character arc.  Yes he's a bully, but we've been shown why.  The first episode showcased how hugely (ha!) conflicted he is, and the more details we got of his home life and endless fuckups--some entirely of his own making, some not--gave us insights to his huge well of private pain.  That actor is amazing, his small nod and nearly silent defeated sigh after each new disappointment in his life, like he expects nothing less than to be shit upon, breaks my heart.  But when he looks at Eric...

Aimee is breaking my heart too.  From initially totally dismissing what happened to her on the bus as normal and no big deal, it clues us in on how she feels about herself.  Her steps to drop the mean girl clique who only take advantage of her, to her openness with Steve about not wanting to be intimate with him because of her experience shows that she's strengthening as a person.  Old Aimee would have gone ahead and had sex with Steve because he wanted to, regardless that she didn't and would have been screaming and dying inside.

Gawd.  I have to wait a year for Season 3?  So unfair...

Edited February 2, 2020 by HurricaneVal
I was obsessively watching, not doing Microsoft internet searches

[Danny Franks]

Okay, one of my biggest peeves in TV writing is when it's clear that the writers started with the question, 'how do we keep these two characters apart?' And sadly, this season finale demonstrated that the writers of this show were doing exactly that. They actually introduced wheelchair dick as a character whose sole purpose was to be there to prevent Maeve from hearing Otis' message. That's... terrible (and also utter bullshit. Maeve conveniently left her phone unlocked after having not checked it? Right. Sure). It would honestly serve the showrunner right if Netflix cancelled it, as we now know they often do after two seasons, and they never get to write the conclusion that they want.

Keeping Otis and Maeve apart for so much of the season was honestly an awful choice. So much of the show's charm came from them interacting, as well as Otis and Eric interacting, and removing that aspect just made the multitude of darker writing choices for other characters that much bleaker.

This show was a joy to watch in its first season. It was full of wit and warmth and while it never shied away from serious issues, it dealt with them in a reassuring way. This season was mostly miserable, with a few happier bits. We didn't get Sex Education, we got Shitty Parent/Child Relations.

And I will never understand why they chose to add four new teen characters and spend so much time on them instead of giving the minor characters from season one more to do. They had Aimee, Olivia, Ruby, Anwar and Lily, and while they at least gave Aimee and Lily a storyline each, I'm not sure they gave them any more screen time.

Nor will I ever understand what's supposed to be attractive about Eric/Adam. I guess we're meant to forget how terrified of Adam Eric was, now that they've told us that Eric 'never smiles like he smiles at Adam.' And as-fucking-if Eric's parents had never heard of the kid who bullied their son for years. People need to stop pushing abuse as romantic, they really do.

Other stuff. Both Otis and Jean had valid points, and it's sadly ironic that two people who are generally very good at analysing problems in other peoples' relationships have been so bad at communicating with one another. Remi actually came through with decent advice, even if he tacitly admitted his book was bullshit to push toxic masculine ideas. And Otis does seem to have turned a corner, and realised that he wants to be better than he's been this season.

Groff getting suspended for being crazy is really not sufficient for the deliberate exposing of his students' confidential secrets. But I still have less than no interest in his midlife crisis, insecure manchild bullshit.

Aimee and Steve came to a sweet understanding, as did Ola and Lily.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Paloma]

@Danny Franks I wish I could give double or triple hearts to your whole post! You really nailed the good and bad points of this season vs. the first season. It's still a much better show than many other dramedies (or comedramas?), especially those centered on teens, but I wish the writers would take your observations as guidance to improve the third season, if there is one. 

[Chas411]

Hated. HATED the Adam/Eric development. I’m all for an Adam redemption arc but hate that they screwed Rahim over in the process as I didn’t think he did anything wrong other then like Eric for who he was. 

[possibilities]

I like Rahim a lot. I hope they don't just get rid of his character. He's so much more than just a prop, and I'm afraid they'll treat him like he isn't.

I mean, the fascination with bullies and how deep they supposedly are and how sympathetic and complex and interesting? I don't get it.

Why can't we delve deeply into the complexity and interestingness of someone like Rahim, or the other non-bully characters? Why are obnoxious people given treated with more fascination than others?

I am getting tired of seeing characters who are unlikable be treated as desireable.

[ahisma]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:57 PM, Chas411 said:

they screwed Rahim over in the process as I didn’t think he did anything wrong other then like Eric for who he was

Well... he was very dismissive of Eric’s religious beliefs. I like Rahim as a person/character, and liked that he was positive about his sexuality rather than abusively closeted, but I wouldn't say he’s perfect for Eric. 

[DoctorAtomic]

He does not really have a sense of humor either. 

[possibilities]

I'm fine with Eric and Rahim not being OTP, I just hope they don't ditch Rahim as a character. And I'm sickened by the implication that Eric and Adam ARE a match.