S06.E05: The Confessions

[OtterMommy]

Quote

Grace worries that Nick isn't satisfied with their sex life.  Sol decides to keep his diagnosis a secret, and Coyote comes clean about Jessica.

Drop Date: 01/15/2020

[Harvey]

I have to say, watching Allison's friend be submitted to listening to Sol talk about jicama was too entertaining.

I actually agreed with Brianna in this episode. At Say Grace, no one seems to be working very hard. They are just doing their jobs which they get paid for. They don't need extra appreciation for that. Might sound harsh but that's just true.

[shapeshifter]

Loved loved loved Robert/Sheen rolling the Bowler/Derby hat up his arm and doffing it. He’s such a treasure trove of physical comedy. 
And kudos to whomever came up with the Frankie-and-Robert bit using the mesh back of a chair as a Catholic confessional screen. LOL

-

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

actually agreed with Brianna in this episode. At Say Grace, no one seems to be working very hard. They are just doing their jobs which they get paid for. They don't need extra appreciation for that. Might sound harsh but that's just true.

Meanwhile the best perk of being forced into early retirement is not having to deal with an emotionally abusive boss when all I ever wanted at work was to do my job. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

5 hours ago, Harvey said:

I actually agreed with Brianna in this episode. At Say Grace, no one seems to be working very hard. They are just doing their jobs which they get paid for. They don't need extra appreciation for that. Might sound harsh but that's just true.

I wouldn't even make it through one day of working with Brianna. I don't need heaps of praise for doing my job, but I definitely don't need to be verbally abused over every little thing or break in someone else's shoes for them.

[MissLucas]

I always love it when they pair Frankie and Robert, they have such an intriguing dynamic and Tomlin and Sheen just play so well off each other.

Add me to the list of people who would not want to work for Brianna. She's a fun character on-screen but in real life she'd be so toxic that she would probably spend a lot of time in court. I also think she's the character the writers have the hardest time balancing out the exhausting hyperbole with rewarding emotional moments. And given that she's on a show with the likes of Frankie, Bud and Coyote that's saying something.

[KATBOW]

I'm still trying to figure out whether I agree with Bud or Coyote about Coyote dating Jessica.  LOVED the jicama talk and Frankie and Robert "confessing" through the back of a chair. 

  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, KATBOW said:

I'm still trying to figure out whether I agree with Bud or Coyote about Coyote dating Jessica.

While watching I thought Bud should not be married if he was still that much in love with Jessica.
But now that you mention it, if I think back to my long lost loves, yeah, I wouldn't want to see my sister or a close friend get together with any of them.

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure I recognized Jessica as Christine Woods, who played Buzz's sister, weather girl Casey, on The Closer, and Janis on FlashForward.

Edited January 16, 2020 by shapeshifter

[SoMuchTV]

On 1/16/2020 at 7:14 AM, shapeshifter said:

And kudos to whomever came up with the Frankie-and-Robert bit using the mesh back of a chair as a Catholic confessional screen. LOL

That brought back some memories!

[Oldernowiser]

On 1/16/2020 at 12:30 PM, KATBOW said:

I'm still trying to figure out whether I agree with Bud or Coyote about Coyote dating Jessica.   

IMHO, Coyote. I get that Bud is still harboring a grudge against this woman, but 18 years?   Would it be weird at first? Yes, but if Bud wants his brother to be happy, the way he supposedly is...make an effort at least.

 I wasn’t feeling Nick at all the first few episodes but he was super sweet in this one. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm still trying to figure out whether I agree with Bud or Coyote about Coyote dating Jessica. 

I can understand Bud feeling awkward around her but he really has no right to object, given how long it's been and that he's now married to someone else.

[ProudMary]

This is my favorite episode of S6 so far. I liked all the story lines and pairings. 

I've said this here in the past but as much as I've always loved Martin Sheen in just about everything he's ever done, he is completely lost in his scenes with Sam Waterston, which unfortunately, make up the bulk of his role as Robert. But put him in a scene with Lily Tomlin and the Sheen I've always loved returns. Past experience, I guess but they just seem so comfortable together. It's an absolute pleasure to watch. I think they bring out the best in each other. This is perhaps a UO, but I often think Lily's portrayal of Frankie is something of a caricature, but playing off Martin Sheen, she seems very real. JMO, of course.

I didn't care all that much for Nick in past seasons, but that character has definitely grown on me. 

 

[Harvey]

11 hours ago, ProudMary said:

This is my favorite episode of S6 so far. I liked all the story lines and pairings. 

I've said this here in the past but as much as I've always loved Martin Sheen in just about everything he's ever done, he is completely lost in his scenes with Sam Waterston, which unfortunately, make up the bulk of his role as Robert. But put him in a scene with Lily Tomlin and the Sheen I've always loved returns. Past experience, I guess but they just seem so comfortable together. It's an absolute pleasure to watch. I think they bring out the best in each other. This is perhaps a UO, but I often think Lily's portrayal of Frankie is something of a caricature, but playing off Martin Sheen, she seems very real. JMO, of course.

I didn't care all that much for Nick in past seasons, but that character has definitely grown on me. 

 

I feel like usually, Robert is at his most serious when dealing with Sol. He is more chill (to varying degress) with literally everyone else, like he cracks these random jokes or has intelligent remarks while with Sol he always has to be the sensible one in the relationship. So that might have something to do with it.

[Chaos Theory]

On 1/16/2020 at 5:08 AM, Harvey said:

 

I actually agreed with Brianna in this episode. At Say Grace, no one seems to be working very hard. They are just doing their jobs which they get paid for. They don't need extra appreciation for that. Might sound harsh but that's just true.

Ironically it’s a double edged sword.   Even saying “Good job” every once in awhile actually does get employees to work harder.   They are more likely to do more when they know their employer notices the extra effort.   They are more. Likely to do just the bare minimum required of them when extra effort isn’t noticed,    Brianna has zero people skills and demands extra effort but then won’t even say a simple “Thank you  for staying late” when someone does it.

[Empress1]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:08 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I wouldn't even make it through one day of working with Brianna. I don't need heaps of praise for doing my job, but I definitely don't need to be verbally abused over every little thing or break in someone else's shoes for them.

Right. It's not the lack of praise*, it's the ... abuse. Expecting your assistant to track your menstrual cycle is bonkers. She doesn't even know one of her employees' names, and the company doesn't look very big. If you have to have your employees stay late on no notice, you apologize and thank them for it - and having your employees stay late because you're avoiding your boyfriend and not because you have actual work to do is bullshit. If you want your staff to stick with you for any length of time, you have to give them reasons to do that beyond "well, I pay you, so ..." Like, are there opportunities for growth? Does Brianna even know what her employees' aspirations are? She leads by fear. She's a terrible boss. (Not to mention didn't she almost run the company into the ground?)

Also, people are going to leave. It's just part of the cost of doing business.

*I had a boss who was effusive in his public praise of me and I actually told him to stop because it made me uncomfortable. It was 100% about him, not me - it was his way of saying "Look at this awesome hire I made!" If you want me to feel appreciated, pay me more.

[betha]

Loved this episode- the confessions through the back of the chair were the best. 
But I have two sticking points.

1)I am totally on Bud’s side. If this woman broke his heart, both his mom and his brother should have deferred to him before spending any time with her. Some people may be fine with it 18 years later. Some would not. I would never be ok with a serious ex who broke my heart dating my sister, and I am married with kids. That is a really unfair position to put Bud in, and a small sacrifice for family members to make.

2) The prostrate cancer storyline is not only ridiculous in the world of the show, but potentially bad for public health. They are making it seem like Sol is making the brave decision to have surgery, but from what his doctor said about it being slow-growing (and in most real-life cases in someone his age) surgery is unnecessary and potentially harmful. Instead of educating the public about prostate cancer, the show is promoting fear and unnecessary intervention.

[sistermagpie]

40 minutes ago, betha said:

2) The prostrate cancer storyline is not only ridiculous in the world of the show, but potentially bad for public health. They are making it seem like Sol is making the brave decision to have surgery, but from what his doctor said about it being slow-growing (and in most real-life cases in someone his age) surgery is unnecessary and potentially harmful. Instead of educating the public about prostate cancer, the show is promoting fear and unnecessary intervention.

Yeah, I thought that too. They made it seem like the doctor telling him to do nothing was the doctor just giving up on him, as if it wasn't worth saving his life when no, the point is it's really slow growing and he really would probably die of other causes before it was a problem. Or if not they'd do the surgery when it seemed like it was worth it. Then the surgery was like nothing with no complications. He might as well have had a mole removed.

[retired watcher]

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I thought that too. They made it seem like the doctor telling him to do nothing was the doctor just giving up on him, as if it wasn't worth saving his life when no, the point is it's really slow growing and he really would probably die of other causes before it was a problem. Or if not they'd do the surgery when it seemed like it was worth it. Then the surgery was like nothing with no complications. He might as well have had a mole removed.

My Dad had slow growing prostate cancer. And his doctor advised doing nothing. He died of other reasons before the cancer effected him. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I thought that too. They made it seem like the doctor telling him to do nothing was the doctor just giving up on him, as if it wasn't worth saving his life when no, the point is it's really slow growing and he really would probably die of other causes before it was a problem. Or if not they'd do the surgery when it seemed like it was worth it. Then the surgery was like nothing with no complications. He might as well have had a mole removed.

I let it go because most recent opinions are now leaning back towards treating slow-growing prostate cancer, but, yeah, it wasn’t explained very well. 
(It’s one of those statistic-based medical recommendations that changes from decade to decade, like VBAC vs. “once a C-section, always a C-section.)

[Clanstarling]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:08 AM, Harvey said:

I actually agreed with Brianna in this episode. At Say Grace, no one seems to be working very hard. They are just doing their jobs which they get paid for. They don't need extra appreciation for that. Might sound harsh but that's just true.

I've always been a high performer, and never needed kudos (though I very much appreciated them). But I never worked overtime without a reason that was more than placate the boss, and if I ever worked for Brianna, I'd be out of there in a flash. She doesn't know how to manage people, she's an overgrown toddler wanting everyone at her beck and call. Because of that, I enjoy her most when she's not at work.

On 1/20/2020 at 11:21 AM, betha said:

Loved this episode- the confessions through the back of the chair were the best. 
But I have two sticking points.

1)I am totally on Bud’s side. If this woman broke his heart, both his mom and his brother should have deferred to him before spending any time with her. Some people may be fine with it 18 years later. Some would not. I would never be ok with a serious ex who broke my heart dating my sister, and I am married with kids. That is a really unfair position to put Bud in, and a small sacrifice for family members to make.

2) The prostrate cancer storyline is not only ridiculous in the world of the show, but potentially bad for public health. They are making it seem like Sol is making the brave decision to have surgery, but from what his doctor said about it being slow-growing (and in most real-life cases in someone his age) surgery is unnecessary and potentially harmful. Instead of educating the public about prostate cancer, the show is promoting fear and unnecessary intervention.

Though there were issues with the storyline, what I liked most about it is that it showed Sol taking the time to figure out what HE wanted to do about it - not what the doctor thought he should do, or what Robert thought he should do. What he wanted. We've been going through some medical issues of our own (I'm the Robert in the situation), and it is a struggle to not weigh in without be asked. As stressful and painful as it might be for everyone else, it's his body, his life, his choice.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Clanstarling

[TV Diva Queen]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:57 AM, Empress1 said:

Right. It's not the lack of praise*, it's the ... abuse. Expecting your assistant to track your menstrual cycle is bonkers. She doesn't even know one of her employees' names, and the company doesn't look very big. If you have to have your employees stay late on no notice, you apologize and thank them for it - and having your employees stay late because you're avoiding your boyfriend and not because you have actual work to do is bullshit. If you want your staff to stick with you for any length of time, you have to give them reasons to do that beyond "well, I pay you, so ..." Like, are there opportunities for growth? Does Brianna even know what her employees' aspirations are? She leads by fear. She's a terrible boss. (Not to mention didn't she almost run the company into the ground?)

Also, people are going to leave. It's just part of the cost of doing business.

*I had a boss who was effusive in his public praise of me and I actually told him to stop because it made me uncomfortable. It was 100% about him, not me - it was his way of saying "Look at this awesome hire I made!" If you want me to feel appreciated, pay me more.

Unless I missed Briana telling his to track her cycle, I feel that the assistant was doing that on his own to know when she's in the PMS zone.  He would know because I'm sure he's made tampon runs for her.  without a doubt. 

[Blakeston]

It seemed like Sol's doctor was saying, "If you make it to 85/90, your cancer will be in deadly territory, but you might die of something else before that, so maybe you don't care."

If i were in Sol's position, I'd find it very hard to accept the idea that I was counting on dying soon.

[lgprimes]

On 2/22/2020 at 1:27 PM, Blakeston said:

It seemed like Sol's doctor was saying, "If you make it to 85/90, your cancer will be in deadly territory, but you might die of something else before that, so maybe you don't care."

If i were in Sol's position, I'd find it very hard to accept the idea that I was counting on dying soon.

Nah Sol is probably already 80, and prostrate cancer could take DECADES to cause problems. They can do genetic typing now to tell if you have an aggressive strain, and if not then I agree it was an unnecessary risk for Sol to have surgery.

There’s a reason mammograms are often stopped at age 75 or so...

[Blakeston]

On 3/8/2020 at 8:08 PM, lgprimes said:

Nah Sol is probably already 80, and prostrate cancer could take DECADES to cause problems. They can do genetic typing now to tell if you have an aggressive strain, and if not then I agree it was an unnecessary risk for Sol to have surgery.

There’s a reason mammograms are often stopped at age 75 or so...

Sol’s doctor made it sound like it could end up killing him. If it was unnecessary surgery, then his doctor grossly misinformed him.

Also, I think Grace is the only character who’s supposed to be in her eighties. They were all supposed to be about 70 when the series began, and then Grace revealed that she’d been lying about her age.

[Bastet]

I love that Robert's recurring nightmare about Frankie moving in is rooted in reality - as soon as he told her about Sol's cancer, she said, "I have to call him.  I have to move in."

Cassidy being left with fewer and fewer people, and increasingly awkward conversation, culminating in even the dog leaving the patio, was hilarious. 

But, of course, my favorite was the confessional they set up using the back of a chair.  "I'm pretty sure this is blasphemy."  Robert telling Frankie Grace said she wished he was dead, but she didn't mean it, nor did Frankie mean it when she wished Sol would get cancer in the groin, was a nice moment, but the whole conversation was great. 

It's interesting how differently Jessica and Bud describe their relationship, and I have a feeling hers - that it was a casual, brief college thing that wasn't going anywhere, so she ended it - is going to wind up being far more accurate.  Which means it will be no issue for Coyote to date her.  Which is a shame for me, because she's played by the actor who played Buzz's sister in the only Christmas episode of The Closer I hate, and that's the only thing I've ever seen her in, so I see "Casey" every time she's on screen.

Nick and Grace talking about their sex life was well done, and I loved, "My safe word is 'stop'."

I liked Mallory manipulating Brianna into giving her assistant a raise and promotion (and an acknowledgment of how much he does for her).  I figured from the beginning the cover letter was hers, but I wasn't sure where she was going to go with that and I really like what she wound up doing.

[Oldernowiser]

I am pathetically happy there are new comments on these episodes! 

Sincerely,

In Lockdown For Six Weeks

[Desperado]

I’m tired of seeing majorly insecure Grace. Where’s the successful business woman? The great friend to Frankie? Her whole life is wrapped into her new husband in a way that’s hard to watch for me. I thought their relationship had deepened last year but now she’s back where she started, constantly worrying about not being enough. Blah.

[KittyQ]

On 1/16/2020 at 10:17 AM, MissLucas said:

I always love it when they pair Frankie and Robert, they have such an intriguing dynamic and Tomlin and Sheen just play so well off each other.

Perhaps that may be because they worked together before on The West Wing.

[snarktini]

On 1/20/2020 at 11:21 AM, betha said:

 

1)I am totally on Bud’s side. If this woman broke his heart, both his mom and his brother should have deferred to him before spending any time with her. Some people may be fine with it 18 years later. Some would not. I would never be ok with a serious ex who broke my heart dating my sister, and I am married with kids. That is a really unfair position to put Bud in, and a small sacrifice for family members to make.

After thinking about it, I agree. On a purely rational/logical level, I do see the other side. It's long over, he's married, what's the big deal? But emotionally, it's a different story. And Coyote made this choice intentionally, it's not like he and Jessica happened to be in the same social/work group and feelings grew the way that can happen when exes are entwined in your life. Coyote did what he wanted, knowing Bud would be hurt. Frankie, too, she knew to hide this from him. And I think it likely hits even harder because everyone in Bud's family has a history of doing whatever they want regardless how it affects others. This is the same old pattern.