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S01.E12: Justice x2

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As Leland assists convicted serial killer Orson Leroux with having his conviction overturned, Kristen is called into court to testify while her daughter, Laura, undergoes emergency heart surgery. Also, while paying a visit to a woman in need of spiritual advice, David fears for his safety after witnessing her evil instincts firsthand.

Airing Thursday, January 16, 2020.

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So... did the comedian have an accent or not?

As for the kid's heart, it's much more likely she was misdiagnosed to start with than that it healed miraculously. 
 

Leland in session with Beelzebub... no.  I think I may be done with this.

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insert *boy that escalated quickly* gif here.

great ending scene

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That ending. What? 

Holy crap, this episode was intense. Everything with Sonya was just...damn. I think I need a breather after all of that craziness. I did sympathize with her anger and deep pain, though. Those radio clips were horrifying to listen to. 

And David! He is just NOT having a good time of it lately! He needs to not go places on his own anytime soon, if ever. I felt for him so much with his attempts to try and talk Sonya down not working out. I can't even begin to imagine the kinds of nightmares he has-no wonder he takes drugs. 

And now LeRoux is back out on the streets as well. So that's...frightening. Very interesting twist, the whole thing of the guy who killed those kids taking credit for LeRoux's crimes, too. I'm guessing things are going to be pretty frosty between Kristen and Mira going forward. 

At least we got some happy news regarding Kristen's daughter, Laura, so yay for that! Though with this show, who the hell knows how long that good outcome will last. And Andy's give/exchange thing...that's some ominous foreshadowing right there. 

I'm very glad Kristen didn't take him up on his offer for her to go hiking, though, 'cause he would be incredibly lost without her there. It was really interesting seeing Lynn taking on the motherly role while Kristen was at work. She seemed very frustrated by her dad's reaction to everything that happened, and I can't say I blame her. No wonder she and the other girls love Ben so much. 

(And on that note, I know Andy asked Kristen if he should worry about Ben a while back, but I won't be surprised if that topic comes up again later on.)

So between LeRoux being free and Leland, or rather, Jake (that was quite the interesting revelation!) being all pissed off, the finale should be wild. I'm so sad there's only one episode left , but I am both anxious and very nervous to see how they wrap up this season. 

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WTF was that at the end. . .

Ok, so dad was chanting saying to give his life for his daughters.  Weird enough.  But the girls were doing it too!

This show is so weird.  Therapy with the devil was pretty hysterical though.

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2 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

Ok, so dad was chanting saying to give his life for his daughters.  Weird enough.  But the girls were doing it too!

I'm automatically wary of anyone chanting anything on this show, even if what they're chanting is totally innocuous :p. 

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18 minutes ago, janeta said:

So... did the comedian have an accent or not?

I thought he faked 'not' having an accent when he met Sonya (and probably everyone else). I don't think he wants anyone to know he's from Rwanda.

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I was just thinking that finally Leland/Jake was going to get interesting, give Emerson something to work with, and then... wow that ending, what the AF. I'm not feeling it. Colour me disappointed.

Re: Andy making some assumptions about Ben. I know the early talk for the show was about a potentially developing romance between Kristen and David, but I don't see any chemistry there. Does anyone else see more of a spark with Kristen and Ben, or is it just me?

Edited by Starchild
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Andy telling Ben it's "okay" if Kristen is there with him - man, that whole scene was so tense, because I was all, "DO NOT KILL AASIF MANDVI BEN, DAMMIT" and then the call came in and Andy was all, "hey, Kristen needs to know, whatev," and Ben has NO CLUE THE CONTEXT to any of this....

I could not handle more then thirteen episodes of this show a year. I just couldn't.

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That ending was effing amazing and fucking hilarious. Sabrina's Dark Lord as Tuba player's shrink. LOL. I died. 

The A plot Death and The Maiden was familiar but still very well done. And yes David can't win for losing, while Ben the Magnificent leads a charmed life. I liked her bringing Alexa out as I thought it looped back to the possessed Alexa episode.

I love this show so much and am so sad there is only one episode left, and that it really just gives ZERO fucks.  At least when this goofball delight signs off Legends of Tomorrow starts up!

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Over in January already? Does this mean no fresh episodes (after the finale) til next fall? That's a long stretch to wait.

I'm perplexed about the accent & Andy's promise. Oh, & the psychologist!

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Kristen so thoroughly destroyed Leland/Jake he needs a therapy session with a demon. "Now tell me about your dreams." I'm cackling.

RIP to Andy next episode, I bet. You'd think he'd be more concerned considering the girls were chanting it as well, and may inadvertently be sacrificing themselves, too. 

David really has had a rough go of it. Stabbed, almost killed by an evil nurse, now a broken ankle and being locked in a basement. He deserves some time off.

And on top of everything else, there's now a serial killer on the loose. 

I can't wait for the finale to see how the puzzle pieces in each episode and the numbers in the titles come together. 

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42 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Re: Andy making some assumptions about Ben. I know the early talk for the show was about a potentially developing romance between Kristen and David, but I don't see any chemistry there. Does anyone else see more of a spark with Kristen and Ben, or is it just me?

Nope, not just you :D. I mentioned in another thread a while back that I've been shipping them for a while now. Stuff like the call between Andy and Ben tonight, and the way Ben's becoming more and more involved with Kristen and her kids, just gives me more reasons to do so. 

ETA: Also, regarding that ending, for those who aren't as big on it, it's entirely possible that Leland's simply imagining the devil sitting there, too. I think that would make a lot more sense if they plan or want to keep this show more grounded in the real world. 

Edited by Annber03
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I really hate to sound like a broken record about this show (which I actually enjoy quite a bit), but for the love of Mike,  will somebody put a muzzle on those kids? Have Kristen and Andy really never taught these girls any manners? self control? normal speaking voices?  Have they ever told them to be quiet? calm down? settle down? or just plain ol' STFU?  Its called parenting, folks.  Maybe spend a little less time on the mountain top.  Actually, the thought that they might have once took these kids to a mountain and let them yell from the top might explain a lot.  I suppose I can understand letting them screech at home.  But in a hospital?  A place that often actually has "quiet hours?"  A place where patients in neighboring rooms might need peace and quiet?  A place where Andy and Kristen might actually need to hear, think about, and comprehend what their child's doctor is trying to tell them?  Geez Louise!  Frankly, if the chanting gets them all appointments with the horned psychiatrist, I won't shed a tear.  I raised two daughters and grew up in a house with three sisters.  I know for a fact that not all girls this age act like little raving lunatics?  Please show, boarding school next year.  Please!

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I might have literally yelled "what?!" like five times when Satan from The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina showed up as Leland's therapist! That was so deeply wacko and it was maybe one of my favorite scenes in the whole show so far! Yes, tell Dr. Beelzebub what you've been dreaming about, and then we can discuss devouring the hearts of our enemies! 

Poor David, he is just having a really crappy couple of weeks. The story with Sonya was so intense, and rather complex. The comedians comedy routines were really awful, especially knowing what happened, and he didnt generally come off as the best person (or particularly funny) even outside of that, but did he deserve to be mutilated and killed, especially as he was never presumably directly involved in the slaughter? How much responsibility does he have for the horrors that followed his awful dehumanizing racist jokes? I felt terrible for what Sonya went through, but she also mutilated and killed a man who was tied to a chair, and was willing to kill Ben and that random passerby in the name of her justice. God that scene with Ben was so scary, even knowing that he would most certainly be fine. Run for it Ben! 

Of course Kristen's husband is the "beliefs are stupid unless they're mine" person. That was also a stupid idea, asking to give his life for Laura, if well meant and noble, and he has no idea that his wife is currently playing chicken with the dark powers and is involved in some kind of big cosmic chess game between light and dark, so he probably didnt realize how literal that could be. Its also interesting that it kind of sounded like he suspected that Ben and Kristen might be hiding something from him, maybe even having an affair, or that Ben might be covering for her and David or something. Maybe he thinks its weird that Ben is so close to his daughters? He still just doesent get her work? 

Aww the girls were so happy to see Ben the Magnificent! I also fully thought that was the evil Alexa that Sonya pulled out for a second, poisoning more people with her evil!

Edited by tennisgurl
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5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

God that scene with Ben was so scary, even knowing that he would most certainly be fine. Run for it Ben! 

On the one hand, I breathed a big sigh of relief when he was able to leave the house unscathed, but on the other hand I was like, "But...but...somebody needs to help save David!" 

I was also worried for that woman who showed up. Interesting excuse Sonya ultimately came up with to get her to leave :p.

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I also fully thought that was the evil Alexa that Sonya pulled out for a second, poisoning more people with her evil!

I was wondering about that, too!

 

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OMG, I burst out laughing when I saw Dr. B. L. Zebub at the end there. I couldn’t stop laughing. 😆

I’m going to start calling Leland “Jake from State Farm” from now on. 
Yeah, David has had a bad couple of weeks. 
I can’t believe the season will be over this early. ☹️

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2 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

I’m going to start calling Leland “Jake from State Farm” from now on. 

Heheh, I totally thought of that too! "What are you wearing, Jake from State Farm?! The blood of my enemies?" Of course Leland is the kind of person who can dish it out, but cant take it. When Leland was doing his typical "blah blah dont mess with evil me I will eat your families eyes" speech, I yelled at Kristen to just punch him, but that was even better! He was so shook, and his stupid evil smirk was so wiped off his face, that he had to go cry to his demon shrink about how Kristen refuses to respect high school marching band! 

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This episode proved what I have been saying all along.  Kristen is a lousy mother and the father isn't much better.   She didn't even tell her husband what was going on with their daughter.  He was absolutely clueless when he was talking to the doctor.  He didn't know anything about any potential medical procedure for that child.  And of course Kristen isn't available to fill in the gaps.  No emergency contact number.

Plain and simple lousy parents.

Edited by icemiser69
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I mean this as no criticism of the show or of Michael Emerson, but since the beginning of this show I was thinking if there was another “character” in the Leland role. I realize, of course, that was solely because of what happened on Lost. I also realize that I shouldn’t have let that color me. But ... here we are.

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Well, if she'd also said: then you posed as a computer AI expert, Mr. Finch! I really would have lost it... 😉

Um, wow. "The Devil will see you now..." 

"And I'm still really upset about my incel accidentally shooting himself..."

"I'm sorry, our time is up..."

And some great posts above hitting all the points I loved and was blown away by. And yes, David's hits just keep on coming...so now he's got one bum arm and one bum ankle (on opposite sides.) Wouldn't surprise me if Ben gave him a panic button.

And while I believe New Yorkers do take action when they see or hear something that's off, I think most of us would call 911 before knocking on the door of a strange house. (But then we would have been denied the sudden detour into sex play and the recommendation of a good dungeon.)

Oh, and I really think that Dad has drastically shortened his life expectancy. And how DID the girls know what to chant? Unless he was lying to Kristen about teaching them. In which case: Dude...you do not want your daughters to offer their lives for their sister.
 

Whew!

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13 hours ago, meatball77 said:

WTF was that at the end. . .

Ok, so dad was chanting saying to give his life for his daughters.  Weird enough.  But the girls were doing it too!

This show is so weird.  Therapy with the devil was pretty hysterical though.

And....that’s not how Buddhism works! Or did he lie and he’s into some cultish/ pseudo religion crap? Don’t like him anyway.  Would not care if he is gone.
WTF with the ending.  I thought maybe he is insane and this was all in his mind.  Otherwise, 🙄🙄

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Things seemed too on the nose here. The comedian happens to have a gun, Kristen ‘s husband just about announces his death and of course Leland meets with the actual devil.

If someone threatens to murder my kids I would completely freak out , yet it didn’t seem to bother Kristen. Not sure if I like Leland as pencil necked geek-too obvious. Questions: how did comedian have a perfect American accent and why was he using it in the bar with Sonia? David is badly injured, why would he go to a stranger’s house to counsel? How did the girls learn to chant and why aren’t the parents concerned that the girls are always doing something creepy?

I don’t have a problem with dad saying he would trade his life for his daughters health- I have said the same thing about my kid. I was surprised at the devil and Leland and I love surprises.

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Regarding the girls learning the chant, now I think about it, if I recall rightly, didn't one of them (Lynn, I want to say?) overhear their dad chanting in his room before they took off for the hospital? If she taught that to her sisters in turn, that would explain them all chanting together.

Even then, though, I don't know that she would've heard near enough of the chant for her and her sisters to recite it quite so accurately...

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How can the father be watching the kids and not know the severity of her medical condition. You would think they would have a "Go" bag ready. They are in a hurry to get to the hospital and you are in your room chanting instead of making sure they are getting ready.

One thing the show does well is let the evil guys lose in a satisfying way. I loved the self-inflicted incel and Kristen deflated Leland most satisfactorily.

The show moved into fantasy when a white woman saw a black woman in her neighborhood and didn't call 911.

David can't catch a "break", Leland takes a consult with his mentor.

 

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My first thought at the final scene - should have known the devil runs an MLM scheme.  Wonder if Mary Kay is his boss?

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I'm of the opinion that Leland's empty white 'office space' is the equivalent of the PBS Sherlock's 'mind castle'- it's in his head. So my jaw dropped at His Satanic Therapist, and then I laughed.

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Even then, though, I don't know that she would've heard near enough of the chant for her and her sisters to recite it quite so accurately..

Yeah, this didn't make sense. I also see (via google) that Buddhists don't believe in a 'God', so I'm not sure who Daddy would be making the 'my life for my daughter's' trade-off with. And of all the things for him to have picked up in the few months he's been gone, that's what he just happened to learn? I'm surprised we haven't heard from a few outraged Buddhists.

I have to confess that I don't remember anything about the serial killer case, but I think Kristen's snotty tone on the witness stand turned the judge against her. I assume at some point we'll see that Bible (which the judge rather unbelievably gifted the serial killer) again, probably next to a corpse.

JMO, but I think the show needs to stick to local evildoers. The whole Rwandan thing came out of left field, and I suspect many viewers had no idea what this plotline was referring to. Isn't the concept of this show complicated enough already?

I also didn't understand the 'scary' crack in the basement wall, which sort of seemed to be related to the African woman's changing murderous moods (maybe?) This really wasn't clear at all, and then at the end, when David observed a ?cockroach? crawl out of it, I was mystified. 

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7 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

Yeah, this didn't make sense. I also see (via google) that Buddhists don't believe in a 'God', so I'm not sure who Daddy would be making the 'my life for my daughter's' trade-off with. And of all the things for him to have picked up in the few months he's been gone, that's what he just happened to learn? I'm surprised we haven't heard from a few outraged Buddhists.

Maybe the chant is like that song from a few episodes back, where, if one of the girls heard it, even just a portion, she started chanting it later without really realizing it, or how and why she knew so much of it? And then the others started joining in and on it went from there. 

And yeah, I like that Kristen called Andy out for his sudden shift in beliefs, given the way he was getting dismissive of her about some of the weird stuff she was dealing with and considering a while back. I can see Andy being one of those people who thinks they know more about a belief system than they actually do, so I wonder if that's what they were going for there. If so, his ignorance will no doubt come back to bite him hard, which just further adds to the target he's put on his own head. 

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Buddhists don't believe in a 'God', so I'm not sure who Daddy would be making the 'my life for my daughter's' trade-off with.

Essentially? The universe, just because Buddhism isn't theistic doesn't mean they believe in "nothing" like atheists do.  Plus I can totally buy Andy as the kind of cultural tourist who misunderstands the practice as more transactional than it is, googling Tonglen it is about exchanging the self with other. Typically this would be a universal other one who is suffering, it's about erasure of self but doing the mediation for your DAUGHTER so you will feel less pain, is not really in that spirit. 

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1 hour ago, sempervivum said:

I also didn't understand the 'scary' crack in the basement wall, which sort of seemed to be related to the African woman's changing murderous moods (maybe?) This really wasn't clear at all, and then at the end, when David observed a ?cockroach? crawl out of it, I was mystified. 

My take was that the cockroach represented the people that the comedian contributed to their deaths.  Didn't he refer to them as cockroaches in his routine? And she made a reference to him making jokes about stomping out cockroaches.   I thought maybe the voices were their spirits encouraging the woman to get vengeance.

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1 hour ago, blixie said:

Plus I can totally buy Andy as the kind of cultural tourist who misunderstands the practice as more transactional than it is, googling Tonglen it is about exchanging the self with other. Typically this would be a universal other one who is suffering, it's about erasure of self but doing the mediation for your DAUGHTER so you will feel less pain, is not really in that spirit. 

I think that's an insightful take...and can see Andy doing it: quid pro quo, so to speak!

I also didn't think there was a chance in the world that Kristen was going to climb the mountain, given that she'd be leaving her kids and husband in danger.

She also showed that she's willing to damage a friendship (with Mira) to get justice done (and also stick it to Leland.)

In that respect, she was unlike Sonja, who (presumably hearing voices from the cockroaches in the wall), extracted a confession from the comic, forgave him, sent him off to heaven with a clean soul...and called the cops to turn herself in. She deemed it necessary that she be punished for taking a life.

And she was driven not just by her own demons, but by evil in the world: there was no reconciliation for her after the Rwandan genocide, which was pure evil on a nationwide level.

The comic denied he had any culpability in the slaughter, and even erased his accent offstage, but finally had to admit that he had played a part with his "jokes."

Pretty powerful stuff...and knocked off the base of reality at the end. 

 

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5 hours ago, sempervivum said:

JMO, but I think the show needs to stick to local evildoers. The whole Rwandan thing came out of left field, and I suspect many viewers had no idea what this plotline was referring to. Isn't the concept of this show complicated enough already?

was the Rwanda genocide really so long ago that people don't know about it?

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"Why do people make fun of marching bands? That's a worthy entertainment"  Hahaha!

This show is so weird.  I love it.

The most unbelievable thing about woman dog walker, besides that she managed to trace David's voice back to Sonja's apartment (after what we saw, it shouldn't have been that easy) was that she was going to walk THROUGH the stranger's apartment where she thought she heard screaming??? With her dog??? Just call the police! 

5 hours ago, sempervivum said:

I also didn't understand the 'scary' crack in the basement wall, which sort of seemed to be related to the African woman's changing murderous moods (maybe?)

She had talked about hearing a voice telling her to kill; it seemed to be coming through the crack.   I figured the comedian was doomed but the whole basement scenario was still very tense.  Great cold open at the club and her apartment - I had no idea what to expect.

I still like Andy and I think he has the most chemistry with Kristen, actually.  I think he means well; here's an interesting article about Tonglen; but Kristen needs a loss and I think he will be it. 

Can I just say how much I loved when Kristen told Leland he talks too much?  I hate, hate, bad guy blather and she finally said what I was always thinking.  Of course her smack down of him was fun too.

David needs a vacation, stat.  It does seem in character that he'd want to get back to counseling but for most of the episode I was thinking what a bad day it was for the team.

 

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3 minutes ago, raven said:

Can I just say how much I loved when Kristen told Leland he talks too much?  I hate, hate, bad guy blather and she finally said what I was always thinking.  Of course her smack down of him was fun too.

That was fantastic. The way he just completely crumbled and withered in response... I'd be all for her just spending time chewing out obnoxious men in general wherever she goes. 

On that note, so on the one hand I liked that they gave a nod to my state of Iowa, with Leland being from Des Moines, but on the other hand, now I'm sitting here like, "Hm, do I want my state to be connected to all this creepy stuff?" :p. 

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The show has spent most of the season  Straddling the line between science and faith.   I think this episode the show is going all in with David and his battle between God and the Devil but it is also not discounting Kristen and her scientific belief in medicine psychology and psychopathy.    I actually thought the best scene was between Kristen and Leland when she confronted him outright.  “You talk too much.”    But then got confronted with some weird medical mystery with her daughter and her husband’s deal with God that is not going to end well for anyone.   

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20 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I was also worried for that woman who showed up. Interesting excuse Sonya ultimately came up with to get her to leave :p.

Maybe I'm just weird but a couple of years ago I heard yelling coming from the building next door "Please someone make it stop" and I just called 911.  I didn't try to investigate it myself.

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Ha, yeah, no, I'd react the exact same way. I've seen more than enough horror movies and true crime shows, I know it's best to let the professionals handle that stuff :p. 

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2 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

was the Rwanda genocide really so long ago that people don't know about it?

26 years ago- people under 40 probably wouldn't. (The Bosnia/Serbia massacres were about the same time, and since the US was involved via NATO force deployment, that one is probably more likely to be remembered).

1 hour ago, raven said:

Yeah, that isn't anything like what Andy described, is it?

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8 hours ago, sempervivum said:

I'm surprised we haven't heard from a few outraged Buddhists

I’m not surprised. Being outraged would be un-Buddhist.

The evil looks Kristen was giving Leeland in the courtroom were much scarier than any look he has given. The Devil picked the wrong person to be his minion.

I hope David has learned a valuable lesson about calling the police next time he  is tempted to follow a trail of blood into a basement.

I say this only because this is a TV show, but I was hoping the daughter would die so there would be one less of them screaming and talking all at the same time. I press mute whenever I see those kids on the screen.

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1 hour ago, Athena5217 said:

I’m not surprised. Being outraged would be un-Buddhist.

The evil looks Kristen was giving Leeland in the courtroom were much scarier than any look he has given. The Devil picked the wrong person to be his minion.

I hope David has learned a valuable lesson about calling the police next time he  is tempted to follow a trail of blood into a basement.

I say this only because this is a TV show, but I was hoping the daughter would die so there would be one less of them screaming and talking all at the same time. I press mute whenever I see those kids on the screen.

Not all Buddhists are great people (same with all religions). Just ask the Rohingya in Myanmar. 

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7 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

I hope David has learned a valuable lesson about calling the police next time he  is tempted to follow a trail of blood into a basement.

AT least he was already in the house, though.  Not like that stupid lady walking her dog.

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Kind of weird that it was easier to find out about Jake Perry through a DNA test than a records search. However, that take down was pretty cool to watch. The impotency thing could have backfired, like if he told Kristen that he banged her mom so hard he turned her evil.

David appear to be the damsel in distress on the show these days.

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I guess this puts paid to the theory that Leland is himself a demon! (And would a demon really masquerade as a therapist??) This looks like it's taking place in the same "office" where Leland is supposedly holding his therapy sessions with clients. Were any of those actually real, or were they all in his head with people he read about on the internet??

We shall see.

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I'm getting more and more convinced that this show is a comedy.

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The random lady with dog is going to read about this incident tomorrow morning.  I would love to see her expression when she figures out how close she was to slice and dice.  Here's a hint next time - don't ever tell someone suspicious that you are going to call the police.  Just do it, preferably from a safe distance.  And David?  What caused you to think that you should go poking about in a house with bloodstains on the floor?  I know, I know, stupid people make tv dramas go 'round.

"Good morning.  Octoglomerate Health Insurance.  How may I help you?"

"Yes, this is Dr. B.L. Zebub.  There seems to be a problem with your accounting service.  I have submitted several bills for reimbursement, but I have not received payment."

"I'm sorry to hear that, Doctor.  Let me put you in touch with our billing department."

"You have reached the Octoglomerate Health Insurance Billing Department.  All of our representatives are busy.  Please stay on the line and the first available representative will answer your call."

Dr. Zebub - "And they say hell is the worst punishment."

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Because I like Kristen so much my head-canon says she wasn't making fun of Jake for being in the marching band, but for being third tuba. Because marching bands rock!

This one time at band camp,

Trumpeter in the Marching Patriots. 

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1 minute ago, Grrarrggh said:

Because I like Kristen so much my head-canon says she wasn't making fun of Jake for being in the marching band, but for being third tuba. Because marching bands rock!

This one time at band camp,

Trumpeter in the Marching Patriots. 

Yeah, Jake was so fat. How fat was he?  He made up a entire row of the Marching Band.

Yeah, Jake was so fat. How fat was he?  He had to wear his tuba like a necklace.  

 

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