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S02.E10: Throwing a Christian to a Bear


tessaray
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On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 8:31 PM, Bastet said:

And Jackie gesturing for Wyatt to run. 

That was funny, especially when she played it off like she was listening to another game then continued to make running movements while mouthing go and run. And I think she had the best line of the night when she handed Dan $5 and told him to buy himself some "shut the hell up" or something like that.

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6 hours ago, msrachelj said:

True. Still, I can't imagine the pain of little Darlene delivering what must have been a 10 lb baby! 

Harris was actually a preemie (confirmed as still canon in The Conners) and I think Darlene even mentioned that both her kids were born via c-section.  

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On 1/22/2020 at 1:28 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

Dan has never been a MEAN character. Sarcastic, yes. Loud, certainly. But always lovable. Last night wasn't Dan. Last night was an asshole. 

Totally agree.  Dan has always been likable.  Here he acted like a bitter prick.

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I don’t care about sports in general but a lot of my family does so When I am in a situation when sports are the “social” thing going on i usually as “what team are we rooting for” and then I root for that team.    Football, baseball and soccer aren’t really that hard to understand and for me it’s just picking a color jersey and yay go team go.   
 

 

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47 minutes ago, Phoebe70 said:

As someone who has zero interest in football, I hated this episode and thought it was the worst one yet. 

I do enjoy football, and I thought it was the worst one yet.

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On 1/22/2020 at 7:26 PM, rmontro said:

Totally agree with this.  I thought the way the Conners treated the Packer fan was absolutely despicable.  And it went way beyond the context of football rivalry.  And to cap it off, they frame it like it was the boyfriend that was at fault.  Seriously, it's enough to make want to stop watching.  I thought it was disgusting.

I totally agree, plus I thought he came off far more tolerant of them having a different team preference than they did toward him in the beginning, which shows the irony of sports fans being even more petty and judgmental than a Christian, and about something arguably far less important in the scheme of life.  Sure, he gave it back by getting judgmental towards them, but IMO by that time they more than deserved it for the way they initially treated him.  So I don't know if the show was going for him looking worse than them but in my opinion they acted far worse and more juvenile about far less.  And it kind of bothers me that the show would try to make a Christian look bad by making them look like a judgmental one.  Again with the TV shows painting all Christians with the same negative brush.  It's sadly typical of a growing prejudice these days against Christians if you ask me.  Anyone can be judgmental and holier than thou, like oh, like maybe the CONNERS were in this episode for example!  Just a way to stereotype someone based on their religious beliefs to grind a prejudiced axe, IMO.

Edited by Yeah No
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On 1/23/2020 at 4:09 AM, Bazinga said:

Because Wyatt, whom we never heard about before, was set up to be a "straw man" fan of the opposition team who is totally unaware of his surroundings, awkward, a condescending, humorless, dweeb, who ends up judging the Conners and thinking he is superior, but is easily knocked over and told-off by the Conners, so the Conners can rise above as real sports fans and be superior to this judgmental, elitist, jerk, who we will never see or hear about again, just like we will never see the family make an event out of watching Bears football again.

The intention was for The Conners, especially Dan and Becky, to come out looking good here.  I feel the Conners were unlikable bullies in this situation.

Yeah, and the show wanted to do all this by way of making him look like all those negative things because he is a CHRISTIAN, like that is so much worse than being a rabid, nasty sports fan that takes their allegiance to their team to a level even beyond that of a religion into a cult like fanaticism. 

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On 1/22/2020 at 8:38 AM, qtpye said:

This seemed so off to me....why the Heck would they not just start something online. I know plenty of freelance writers that make a solid living online. Not to mention, their start up cost would be considerably less. If Darlene was a copywriter in Chicago for many years, she must have contacts that could guest post and Ben should also have some contacts himself.

The episode was acting like it was 1995 with them going for a business loan for a print magazine which would have a very limited audience at best.

If I didn't know better I might think this entire show is set in 1995 judging from the dated decor, dress and situations presented in it.  I rarely watched it in its first incarnation back in the day but it floors me how little has changed with these people in terms of updating with the times.  I get it that they're going for making them look like they don't have the money for making much change but making them that stuck in the past that they can't even think like they live in the age of the internet is over the top. 

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On 1/23/2020 at 4:09 AM, Bazinga said:

Because Wyatt, whom we never heard about before, was set up to be a "straw man" fan of the opposition team who is totally unaware of his surroundings, awkward, a condescending, humorless, dweeb, who ends up judging the Conners and thinking he is superior, but is easily knocked over and told-off by the Conners, so the Conners can rise above as real sports fans and be superior to this judgmental, elitist, jerk, who we will never see or hear about again, just like we will never see the family make an event out of watching Bears football again.

The intention was for The Conners, especially Dan and Becky, to come out looking good here.  I feel the Conners were unlikable bullies in this situation.

This is a very good analysis and why this episode was a writing fail. However, I love the characters and am willing to give them a pass.

On 1/23/2020 at 12:08 PM, rmontro said:

I'm sure you were aware.  My point was that I'm betting most Bears/Packers fans have at least one good friend who supports the other team, and that there was no reason for them to act like jackasses about it.  The whole "We're poor losers whose lives are full of misery, and nothing ever works out for us, therefore we just need a win on Sunday" attitude reeked of self pity, IMO.  And in any case, it's no excuse to completely forget all the rules of hospitality.  The Packer fan was a guest, but the Conners certainly didn't treat him like one.

It's also pretty insulting to football fans. Rabid fans of anything suck, but most football fans are okay people who happen to enjoy football and I say this as someone who does not really care about football.

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

If I didn't know better I might think this entire show is set in 1995 judging from the dated decor, dress and situations presented in it.  I rarely watched it in its first incarnation back in the day but it floors me how little has changed with these people in terms of updating with the times.  I get it that they're going for making them look like they don't have the money for making much change but making them that stuck in the past that they can't even think like they live in the age of the internet is over the top. 

If you will excuse me, I have to go interview for a bank loan for starting up a print magazine about how starting up small scale print magazines makes no sense in this day and age.

I have heard of this thing called the internet but since that America Online Dial up connection is pretty annoying, I doubt if it will ever catch on.

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7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I totally agree, plus I thought he came off far more tolerant of them having a different team preference than they did toward him in the beginning, which shows the irony of sports fans being even more petty and judgmental than a Christian, and about something arguably far less important in the scheme of life.

Yeah, he went in there with a good natured attitude, but was met by a wall of surly hate.  I just don't understand who on the writing staff thought that any of this was funny.  It was just very off putting.  I was setting my DVR for the next week, and I saw The Conners on there, and seriously I had no enthusiasm toward watching it, and it's all because of they treated this guest in their house so terrible.  And the oddest thing was Dan was the meanest of the bunch.

As for your other comments, I hadn't considered that there was a deeper agenda there, but I do believe you're right, I can't believe I missed it.  I just thought well maybe he's just a little too tame for Becky to make a good match for her, considering her history.  I don't want to get into it any deeper because I don't want to see posts removed.

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On 1/22/2020 at 10:58 PM, rmontro said:

The Bears and Packers rivalry goes back a long way, and there is a lot of animosity there.  But I do believe fans of those teams respect each other deep down, since both teams are among the oldest in the NFL.  The cities are also close enough that it's almost unthinkable for fans of either team not to have friends who are fans of the other.  Let's see a little maturity.

Not in a million years.  There is absolutely no respect coming from either side.  I feel that they depicted this perfectly. Why in God's green earth would someone meeting a family for the first time to WATCH A FOOTBALL game wear the rivals colors?  He deserved everything he got and it completely rang true to me.  The cities are not close enough - we're like 5 hours from Green Bay, we have plenty of teams that are somewhat close in proximity, but there is NO rivalry like the Bears/Packers.  facts.  

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36 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Not in a million years.  There is absolutely no respect coming from either side.  I feel that they depicted this perfectly. Why in God's green earth would someone meeting a family for the first time to WATCH A FOOTBALL game wear the rivals colors?  He deserved everything he got and it completely rang true to me.  The cities are not close enough - we're like 5 hours from Green Bay, we have plenty of teams that are somewhat close in proximity, but there is NO rivalry like the Bears/Packers.  facts.  

I don't know. Here in Seattle we hate the Raiders so much I would not be surprised to see violence.

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1 hour ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Not in a million years.  There is absolutely no respect coming from either side.  I feel that they depicted this perfectly. Why in God's green earth would someone meeting a family for the first time to WATCH A FOOTBALL game wear the rivals colors?  He deserved everything he got and it completely rang true to me.

My experience says differently.  There are Bears and Packer fans all over the midwest, many of them know each other and are even best friends.  Bear fans may hate the Packers and Packer fans may hate the Bears, but if you can't overlook which football team someone likes and see them as a human being and treat them accordingly, there is something seriously wrong with you.

Lambeau Field in Green Bay is especially well known for treating fans of opposing teams with courtesy.  I saw a player from the Vikings (who I would wager are more hated than the Bears in Green Bay right now) talk on TV about how he would go play a road game in Green Bay and the fans would wish him good luck, he thought that was amazing.  That's not the Conners house though, obviously.

As for the boyfriend being at fault, he was invited to come watch a football game.  Why wouldn't he wear his football clothes?  Besides, he said he had positive experiences previously with Bear fans.  

Edited by rmontro
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37 minutes ago, rmontro said:

My experience says differently.  There are Bears and Packer fans all over the midwest, many of them know each other and are even best friends.  Bear fans may hate the Packers and Packer fans may hate the Bears, but if you can't overlook which football team someone likes and see them as a human being and treat them accordingly, there is something seriously wrong with you.

Lambeau Field in Green Bay is especially well known for treating fans of opposing teams with courtesy.  I saw a player from the Vikings (who I would wager are more hated than the Bears in Green Bay right now) talk on TV about how he would go play a road game in Green Bay and the fans would wish him good luck, he thought that was amazing.  That's not the Conners house though, obviously.

As for the boyfriend being at fault, he was invited to come watch a football game.  Why wouldn't he wear his football clothes?  Besides, he said he had positive experiences previously with Bear fans.  

where are your experiences - I live in Chicago and have a summer place in Wisconsin.  I truly know of what I speak. The rivalry is real - of course we don't fight each other in the streets, but I'm team Conner on this one.  I'd never ever walk into one of my local Wisconsin bars on game day in my Bears gear.  Its a respect thing.  

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55 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

where are your experiences

I don't live in either city but I used to live in Wisconsin.  I am a Packer fan and my best friend is a Bear fan.  We don't even needle each other (that's probably unusual).  I know a Packer fan who married a Bear fan.  I've been tailgating in Green Bay on game day and there are people wearing all kinds of different team jerseys milling around.

The rivalry is intense but it's just a football game, it's no excuse for treating people like garbage.  But that's fine, if you approve of the way the Conners behaved, we can just agree to disagree.  

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I know this aspect of the show has been beaten to death, but before the mods shut it down and tell us to move on, I just want to say that my impression was not that they wanted to paint all Christians with a broad (intolerant)  brush, but that they saw an opportunity for a good line (Dan, re. the Crusades) and a good pun (the show title), and went for it.  And by "good", I mean "eh".  Well, okay, I did break a smile at the Crusades.

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1 minute ago, SoMuchTV said:

they saw an opportunity for a good line (Dan, re. the Crusades) and a good pun (the show title), and went for it.  And by "good", I mean "eh".  Well, okay, I did break a smile at the Crusades.

Really?  I thought the Crusades joke was a little "dated".  🙂

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3 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I don't live in either city but I used to live in Wisconsin.  I am a Packer fan and my best friend is a Bear fan.  We don't even needle each other (that's probably unusual).  I know a Packer fan who married a Bear fan.  I've been tailgating in Green Bay on game day and there are people wearing all kinds of different team jerseys milling around.

The rivalry is intense but it's just a football game, it's no excuse for treating people like garbage.  But that's fine, if you approve of the way the Conners behaved, we can just agree to disagree.  

I live in an area with both Red Sox and Yankee fans and as everyone knows there is an intense rivalry between them.  That rivalry usually manifests itself in nothing but an intense but jovial ribbing, certainly not the wall of rudeness the Conners put out in this episode and yes that includes walking into a party of mostly Sox fans wearing a Yankee cap.   That's in polite company of course.  If you walk in on a bunch of drunk hooligans you might get worse.  The worst thing I ever saw was in the bar of a fine restaurant in my area during the world series in 2004 between the Sox and the Yankees.  Two women from NYC were rooting for the Yankees and cheered whenever they scored.  This angered the man next to me, who was obviously a Sox fan and quite drunk.  They pissed him off so much he started a fist fight with them, which turned into a brawl that spilled out into the street after the bartender kicked them out!  It turns out he was the CFO of our then utility company!  I only knew that because I came in with some people from work who recognized him.  We told that story for years after that!  Although nowhere near as bad as this, taking this kind of rivalry as far as they did only makes the Conners look like low people.  And I really don't like it that the show chose to portray them that way.

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3 hours ago, rmontro said:

Yeah, he went in there with a good natured attitude, but was met by a wall of surly hate.  I just don't understand who on the writing staff thought that any of this was funny.  It was just very off putting.  I was setting my DVR for the next week, and I saw The Conners on there, and seriously I had no enthusiasm toward watching it, and it's all because of they treated this guest in their house so terrible.  And the oddest thing was Dan was the meanest of the bunch.

As for your other comments, I hadn't considered that there was a deeper agenda there, but I do believe you're right, I can't believe I missed it.  I just thought well maybe he's just a little too tame for Becky to make a good match for her, considering her history.  I don't want to get into it any deeper because I don't want to see posts removed.

I agree about him coming in with a good natured attitude.  He was perhaps a little naive but his experience was not around people that go that far with their fandom, and good for him for living in that kind of civilized world.  I think the writers might have been going for the idea that you don't tell the CONNERS that football is just a GAME, noooooooo, it's a downright RELIGION to them!  So what better person to pit them against but someone who represents an actual religion?  I think they thought this would make them look like noble salts of the earth and more admirable than actual religious people.  However, it went over like a lead balloon with a lot of the audience, many of whom might actually take their comments personally.

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I actually didn't note any of the religious stuff, really.  But I did note the Connors were being assholes to Becky's date/guest.  The Connors are PROUD of being assholes, so I didn't think anything more of it than another example of them being assholes.

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1 hour ago, izabella said:

The Connors are PROUD of being assholes, so I didn't think anything more of it than another example of them being assholes.

Well, there's assholes and then there's assholes.  Usually they're lovable assholes, but not in this case.

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

They pissed him off so much he started a fist fight with them, which turned into a brawl that spilled out into the street after the bartender kicked them out!

His name wasn't Dan Conner, was it?  

I know Dan likes to drink beer, but I never considered him a "drunk hooligan".  I think the point that they were trying to make was that the Conners were poor, working class stiffs who have nothing so they put all their hopes and dreams into football on Sunday.  They just overshot their mark.  There's a way to do that without looking like a jackass.  It's an interesting parallel they drew between church and football on Sunday, although I don't know if that was their intention.  

Also, since the writers are presumably not working class, it makes you wonder:  Is this what they think of the viewers that watch this show?  It's not a very complimentary portrait.  

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1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Also, since the writers are presumably not working class, it makes you wonder:  Is this what they think of the viewers that watch this show?  It's not a very complimentary portrait.  

I also picked up on that and wondered the same thing myself.  Maybe the writers didn't realize what they were implying about the audience here.  I think they were actually trying to impress them but it came off as a subtle insult instead.

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

It's an interesting parallel they drew between church and football on Sunday, although I don't know if that was their intention.  

I think it was intentional, or why call the episode "Throwing a Christian to a Bear"?

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On 1/22/2020 at 12:28 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

A woman two rows back, screamed "PACKERS BITCH" at me (unprovoked) and threw scalding hot coffee on me, also spraying a family with little kids who were sitting in the row between us.

Sorry, I was really drunk that game.

 

I think it's a little hard to swallow that the Conners are such huge football/Bears fanatics. Having lived in Wisconsin most of my life, I'm familiar with people treating the sport like a religion. I don't recall their Bears worship being major part of previous episodes. In the opening, Harris didn't even know Dan was talking about upcoming the Bears-Packers game.

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Quote

n. I don't recall their Bears worship being major part of previous episodes. In the opening, Harris didn't even know Dan was talking about upcoming the Bears-Packers game.

Yeah, and it's not like there's fan paraphernalia decorating the house. I honestly don't think the writers gave this much thought beyond it being a funny football fan versus fan type of thing, without any deeper meaning. I think the boyfriend's criticism of the Conners was just meant to show how loyal Becky was to her family.

I honestly don't know what the hell he was thinking anyway, he was meeting the family for the first time. Did he have any idea they were such devoted Bears fans? And he wore a Cheesehead anyway? That's deliberately antagonistic whether you think it's funny or not. He was just asking to make a bad first impression.

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44 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah, and it's not like there's fan paraphernalia decorating the house. I honestly don't think the writers gave this much thought beyond it being a funny football fan versus fan type of thing, without any deeper meaning. I think the boyfriend's criticism of the Conners was just meant to show how loyal Becky was to her family.

I honestly don't know what the hell he was thinking anyway, he was meeting the family for the first time. Did he have any idea they were such devoted Bears fans? And he wore a Cheesehead anyway? That's deliberately antagonistic whether you think it's funny or not. He was just asking to make a bad first impression.

This.  I made the same observation about Wyatt's behavior with what I thought was pretty much a rhetorical question post upthread and got a lot of backlash with differing opinions.

I guess our mileages may vary on anything sports or religion, sometimes people confusing the two.

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44 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

I made the same observation about Wyatt's behavior with what I thought was pretty much a rhetorical question post upthread and got a lot of backlash with differing opinions.

I hope you don't feel my response to you was "backlash", because I did not mean it as such. 

Yes, you are right that Wyatt's behavior was bad but I think he was intended to be an obnoxious character for the Conners, Dan and then Becky in particular, to expose and then dispose of.  I just think the character was a cardboard abstract for the Conners to beat yet they end up looking even worse then him, when we were supposed to be on their side. 

Football and the Conners:  We know that Dan is a Bears fan but we have never seen the whole family make football watching an event.  Mark seemed totally confused by the supposed family tradition. 

Becky, to our knowledge prior to this episode, was in a long distance relationship with Emilio.  Suddenly, without any prior mentions, she is dating some guy and actually wants to bring him home to meet her family.  Emilio was brushed off in one line about their having talked about it.  Unbelievable.  She will still be in a relationship with Emilio when the show conveniently needs him for storyline reasons. 

The whole situation made no sense beyond setting up Wyatt to be knocked down.

Whether what he said about the family is true or not or should have even been stated, Becky kicked him out of his car because she was angry and of course is entitled to kick someone out of their car and changing his presets is seen as a victory over a bad character showing family loyalty by our plucky protagonist and seen as being cute.  Dan's diatribe was bad, too.  Two dislikeable bullies. 

The whole episode was ham handed and flawed.  As said above, why is Darlene meeting a bank representative on Sunday?  Was this loan to start a business somehow urgent?  No.  My thought on this is that since this is really "The Darlene Show", Darlene's story could not be left out of the episode, even if her plot makes no sense as occurring at the same time (on a Sunday) as the A plot.  

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

TBH, I forgot the watch this episode but reading everyone's posts, I have to ask. There was a time that DJ got religion, did he say anything to Christian Cheesehead?

DJ's one rationed line per episode was in relation to the fact that he would have liked being given Dan's Bears cap that Dan instead gave to Mark, who is indifferent to football.  DJ is unimportant to this show and his past religious feelings were not going to be brought up or even remembered.

Edited by Bazinga
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This is the bear I associate with Dan Conner:

Dan Conner : That's my Canoga Beer Cuckoo clock.

Roseanne : You mean the one where the drunk bear comes out every hour and burps?

Dan Conner : That's the Canoga Bear. And he doesn't burp, he growls.

Roseanne : Burps.

Dan Conner : Growls.

Roseanne : Burps.

Dan Conner : Growls.

Roseanne : Burps.

Dan Conner : Growls.

Roseanne : Dan, he pops out of there with his beer mug. The belching bear goes!

 

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1 hour ago, Bazinga said:

I hope you don't feel my response to you was "backlash", because I did not mean it as such. 

Yes, you are right that Wyatt's behavior was bad but I think he was intended to be an obnoxious character for the Conners, Dan and then Becky in particular, to expose and then dispose of.  I just think the character was a cardboard abstract for the Conners to beat yet they end up looking even worse then him, when we were supposed to be on their side. 

Football and the Conners:  We know that Dan is a Bears fan but we have never seen the whole family make football watching an event.  Mark seemed totally confused by the supposed family tradition. 

Becky, to our knowledge prior to this episode, was in a long distance relationship with Emilio.  Suddenly, without any prior mentions, she is dating some guy and actually wants to bring him home to meet her family.  Emilio was brushed off in one line about their having talked about it.  Unbelievable.  She will still be in a relationship with Emilio when the show conveniently needs him for storyline reasons. 

The whole situation made no sense beyond setting up Wyatt to be knocked down.

Whether what he said about the family is true or not or should have even been stated, Becky kicked him out of his car because she was angry and of course is entitled to kick someone out of their car and changing his presets is seen as a victory over a bad character showing family loyalty by our plucky protagonist and seen as being cute.  Dan's diatribe was bad, too.  Two dislikeable bullies. 

The whole episode was ham handed and flawed.  As said above, why is Darlene meeting a bank representative on Sunday?  Was this loan to start a business somehow urgent?  No.  My thought on this is that since this is really "The Darlene Show", Darlene's story could not be left out of the episode, even if her plot makes no sense as occurring at the same time (on a Sunday) as the A plot.  

DJ's one rationed line per episode was in relation to the fact that he would have liked being given Dan's Bears cap that Dan instead gave to Mark, who is indifferent to football.  DJ is unimportant to this show and his past religious feelings were not going to be brought up or even remembered.

No worries, Bazinga, we're good.  Thanks for your thoughtful post and recap.  I agree with your previous character description of Wyatt too.

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That was just painful to watch. I almost didn’t watch season 2 because of the way these people act. I gave it a chance, and so far, have liked it better. This episode though, the Conners were complete assholes, and sadly, I don’t think the writers realized it. I really hope this isn’t a sign of future writing.

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I’m catching up on episodes.  I’m a lifelong born and bread Packers fan. This was a joke.  No one I know dresses as dorky as Wyatt.  My son did ask for a Cheese head (Cheese helmet) for Christmas and no one has EVER picked on him for wearing it.   If it had been like a NFC championship game maybe it would have mattered.  But even the last time that happened, Jay Cutler noped out and put his ear buds in.   This was so out of whack....sorry but the Bears have not been contenders for a while.  This was just another excuse for them to be assholes.  

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Football.  The football fans in Manchester, England are insane.  There are pubs designated for Man City fans and separate pubs designated for Man United fans.  With bouncers.  You can't even get into the "wrong" pub.  And if you do, you'll be beaten up by the end of the match when everyone's drunk.  (This is soccer, but it's really football.)

Anyway, this episode reminded me of one of the nitpiks I have about the Conner family.  They clearly have severe financial issues (3 mortgages!), yet they can afford expensive Chicago Bears gear ($150+ for an authentic jersey) to wear for one game?  I have the same gripe during the Halloween episodes.  It costs money to pull those OTT costumes together, money I thought they didn't have.

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29 minutes ago, Oosala said:

Football.  The football fans in Manchester, England are insane.  There are pubs designated for Man City fans and separate pubs designated for Man United fans.  With bouncers.  You can't even get into the "wrong" pub.  And if you do, you'll be beaten up by the end of the match when everyone's drunk.  (This is soccer, but it's really football.)

Anyway, this episode reminded me of one of the nitpiks I have about the Conner family.  They clearly have severe financial issues (3 mortgages!), yet they can afford expensive Chicago Bears gear ($150+ for an authentic jersey) to wear for one game?  I have the same gripe during the Halloween episodes.  It costs money to pull those OTT costumes together, money I thought they didn't have.

Yeah, the OTT Halloween episodes used to bother me too.  Now I just go with it the way I go with The Simpsons killing off half the characters every Halloween.

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