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Sanditon

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Rub-a -dub-dub...3 men in a tub...er...row boat.....

PBS cutting production corners...

 Like mold, Sanditon grew on me despite itself...

New Emma released in theaters this weekend...

 

Edited by humbleopinion

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20 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I still continue to be dumbfounded by the fact that Charlotte wears her hair down and without a hat/bonnet

A hat might help with her squinting, too!

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2 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

I may be in the minority, but I do not see Charlotte and Sidney being a good match.  I just don't find them believable.  And it is too much a ripoff of Elizabeth and Darcy.

The regatta...what was that?  A regatta is sailboats under full sail in the open sea, not four rowboats on a pokey river.

When Esther was spilling the beans at the old lady's deathbed, you just knew the old lady would recover and use the information she heard.

The lady from the coach who came to see Charlotte, I missed who she was.  She seemed to be someone fairly highly placed in society, judging by how she was greeted by the Parkers and how many people from society came to the regatta because of her, but if so, what was she doing on a public coach with Charlotte?  (Or did I really miss something, and she is from somewhere other than the coach?)

I would like to see how the characters' stories play out, but I think we can do better here than whoever wrote the TV series (I still don't think it was really Davies, just some intern he passed  it along to.  It is certainly not up to his usual standard.)

Not sure to what regattas you refer, but I give you the world-renowned Henley Royal Regatta:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henley_Royal_Regatta

 

 

Edited by LennieBriscoe

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Lady Susan was the name of a short unpublished Austen novel.  She was described as "the most accomplished coquette in England."  Andrew Davies brilliantly made her a character in Sanditon.

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3 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Realistically, Stringer IS a better match for Charlotte than Sidney, both in terms of interests and status. They are basically the same status - both children of laborers, with enough wit and sense to probably do a little better than their parents. 

I think Charlotte's father is actually landed gentry (at least, in the book). He probably has more land than Mr. Bennet from P&P, and he's active in running the farm. Charlotte may even be better off than Lizzie, since she has brothers, and that means the estate will be able to stay with the family instead of going to a relative when her father dies, so she has to worry less about marrying well than Lizzie did.

The Parkers are a lot less wealthy than Darcy, who was ridiculously wealthy. They seem to be more normal upper-crust. Charlotte is their social equal, even if she has less experience with society. If her father had been a laborer, they might have hired her as a nanny, but she wouldn't have been taken into their home as a guest and brought along to visit Lady Denham.

Charlotte and Sidney are closer in status than Lizzie and Darcy, but much less suited personality-wise. They mostly seem to be falling in love because they're in this show together and the script says so, not because they have anything in common or get along well. Lizzie and Darcy were actually pretty similar once they got over their misperceptions of each other. I don't think you could say that for Charlotte and Sidney.

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Lady Susan, was played by Sophie Winkleman who is married to Freddie Windsor.  His dad is one of the Queen’s cousins.

I didn’t find this episode bad, it was actually watchable.  It would be nice for Esther to make another good decision and marry the duke or earl, whatever his title is.

Eliza is actually Sydney’s real life wife...and quite honestly Charlotte looks like a child compared to her.  I would’ve thought she was the Nanny as well.

Why was Georgiana just hiding in her room after all that? 
 

Stringer and Charlotte would be better together but I think she really is in a vastly different social class.  Sidney is richer than Charlotte but I would guess by not much considering Eliza dumped him for someone with real money.

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Man, I've gotten annoyingly busy and had to catch up!  I got to watch episode 7 on PBS last night.

Like many of you, I see many broken rules of the time period (all this unaccompanied stuff OR in the company of only single men...shocking!), but I'm enjoying the show quite a bit.

Charlotte is really living her best life.  Between hot, broody Sidney (I know he's a dick sometimes, but when Theo James smiles, I just want Charlotte to get her some) and hot, sweet Stringer.  IRL, Stringer is the obvious choice.  Sidney is, however, an Austen man, all underlying goodness, broken past, and gruff exterior, so he's the dude for her.  The rowing scene prior to the regatta, as well as the dance scene in London the episode prior, really puts the chemistry on full tilt between Charlotte and Sidney.  I loved Stringer's "I've already lost to him once today".  I cringe at Charlotte's obliviousness to Stringer.  Sigh.  

The other Parker brother is growing on me.  He's very sweet, really. 

Eliza and Lady Susan are less interesting to me.  I side eyed Lady Susan coming to Sanditon JUST to talk to Charlotte.  Okay, sure...let's go with it.

I continue to wish Ms Lambe was a more fleshed out character. I'm not super compelled by her, and I really want to be (ladies of color support each other and all of that!). 

Only 1 episode left!  I keep hearing about a cliffhanger, but no season 2.  I've tried to stay away from all the spoilers, but any word on whether the US viewship had swayed to a possible season 2?  I expect to walk away from Austen was a sense of satisfaction that all the bows have been neatly tied.

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I am rooting for Stringer to throw in the proverbial towel and take himself and his accent and his talent to America to build NYC, as soon as his father dies. He’ll never look back.

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14 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I was resisting the Mary Sue label because I hate that term and think it has become overused, particularly in a way that gets applied to any female character who is at all liked or competent, but, yeah, Charlotte has become a prime example.…
… she saves the town and the Parkers by charming a society leader into bringing all her friends to watch a rowboat race.

I thought I was the only one who cringes at the frequent use of the Mary Sue label. Thank you, @Shanna Marie, for explaining why I cringe, as I didn’t know why it bugged me, but, yes, this is it. And now I will go off in a corner and have a few personal psychological revelations. 
But even though Charlotte does ultimately embody Mary Sue-ness “by charming a society leader into bringing all her friends to watch a rowboat race” and thereby saving the Parker’s from financial ruin, I think her Mary Sue status was deftly used in the series to set her up for her fall of being the instrument of Miss Lambe’s near ruin. 

Edited by shapeshifter

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14 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

She was the one Charlotte spilled her guts to at the ball in the previous episode, when she rambled on and on about what happened to Georgiana, and how Sydney came to the rescue. Instead of (more realistically, for that era) being horrified that this random girl just started yammering at her without so much as a proper introduction, she was apparently so charmed by Charlotte that she traveled across country to come talk to her some more.

I was resisting the Mary Sue label because I hate that term and think it has become overused, particularly in a way that gets applied to any female character who is at all liked or competent, but, yeah, Charlotte has become a prime example. I'd been thinking Charlotte's loose lips would bring some kind of ruin to Georgiana's reputation by letting it get out in society that she was compromised, but instead she saves the town and the Parkers by charming a society leader into bringing all her friends to watch a rowboat race.

I've never heard of the term "Mary Sue."

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10 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Lady Susan, was played by Sophie Winkleman who is married to Freddie Windsor.  His dad is one of the Queen’s cousins.

I didn’t find this episode bad, it was actually watchable.  It would be nice for Esther to make another good decision and marry the duke or earl, whatever his title is.

Eliza is actually Sydney’s real life wife...and quite honestly Charlotte looks like a child compared to her.  I would’ve thought she was the Nanny as well.

Why was Georgiana just hiding in her room after all that? 
 

Stringer and Charlotte would be better together but I think she really is in a vastly different social class.  Sidney is richer than Charlotte but I would guess by not much considering Eliza dumped him for someone with real money.

Re: Eliza v. Charlotte in looks. See, to me, Eliza looks older but not in a good way, thin-lipped, bland (sorry, Theo), while Charlotte is long-haired, full-lipped, and ripe for the picking. But beyond appearances, Eliza is here pursuing Sidney, whereas Charlotte has done anything but. Finally, as to Sidney with Eliza: BT, DT. With Charlotte, he knows he will get honesty.

Edited by LennieBriscoe
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Eliza's hair has artificial blonde streaks and dark roots, and the redheaded one is wearing modern makeup (dark eye shadow). Annoying and distracts from the story. I swear Charlotte's bosom gets larger each episode.

I've been to rowing regattas and that one was paltry.

This series remains a big disappointment. On to Emma.

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2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Re: Eliza v. Charlotte in looks. See, to me, Eliza looks older but not in a good way, thin-lipped, bland (sorry, Theo), while Charlotte is long-haired, full-lipped, and ripe for the picking. But beyond appearances, Eliza is here pursuing Sidney, whereas Charlotte has done anything but. Finally, as to Sidney with Eliza: BT, DT. With Charlotte, he knows he will get honesty.

All true, and the hair and makeup folks should be proud of how their work contributes to the story, but most importantly (IMO) in this episode someone (a brother? or Babbington?) advised that if he were in Sidney's place, he would not trust Eliza to run off a second time. Even if Sidney doesn't hear that advice, it tells the audience was should happen, and in Austen, what should happen does, or at least to the main characters.

 

1 hour ago, pasdetrois said:

the redheaded one is wearing modern makeup (dark eye shadow)

Dark eye shadow can also contribute to the story by implying poor health or sleepless night. But did you mean eye liner? 

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I finally got to watch on PBS last night.   I mentally fast forward through the Charlotte stuff - I don't care about her at all.  But I'm very invested in Esther!   From the previews, it looks like she is going to wind up with Babbington and is now the sole heir of Lady Denham.   It seemed odd that her Brother, Edward, would just go away.  Isn't the house he lives in his?  He has that, why would he leave?

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58 minutes ago, Doublemint said:

I finally got to watch on PBS last night.   I mentally fast forward through the Charlotte stuff - I don't care about her at all.  But I'm very invested in Esther!   From the previews, it looks like she is going to wind up with Babbington and is now the sole heir of Lady Denham.   It seemed odd that her Brother, Edward, would just go away.  Isn't the house he lives in his?  He has that, why would he leave?

Now that you mention it, I can imagine Edward and Clara living unhappily ever after, having lots of hot passionate sex and babies.

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Quote

not four rowboats on a pokey river.

Apparently this can technically qualify as a "regatta" as defined by the dictionary. But I very much doubt a race between four rowboats is going to draw crowds from London. Nor is a contest for building sand castles. 

Quote

But I'm very invested in Esther!   From the previews, it looks like she is going to wind up with Babbington and is now the sole heir of Lady Denham.

I don't see what difference it makes if Esther is the sole heir or whether there are 50 heirs. Lady Denham's will left everything to charity. I see no reason why she'd change her mind and leave everything to Esther in her new will, unless she's just that grateful for being tipped off about Edward and Clara. Even then I can't imagine her being that magnanimous. In any event let's hope she's learned her lesson and makes sure a copy remains with her attorney, safely locked up somewhere.

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On 2/4/2020 at 1:50 PM, shapeshifter said:

I don’t think Austen had kidnapping but didn’t Sense and Sensibility have an elopement? 

No, but Willoughby seduced and abandoned Colonel Brandon's ward Eliza who bore a baby. Eliza was also an illegimate child.  

In Pride and Prejudice Elizabeth's kid sister Lydia eloped with Wickham and they lived together in London until Darcy paid Wickham to marry Lydia in order to save Elizabeth from shame and sorrow.

In Mansfied Henry Crawford who courted Fanny seduced her married cousin, Maria, and eloped with her but they separated.

So Jane Austen, although a spinster, was ignorant of life. But all this happened off-stage,

On 2/10/2020 at 11:18 AM, shapeshifter said:

* I suspect most viewers will not see Eliza as worthy of Sidney because she broke his heart to marry for money, but that would have just been the wise thing to do at that time, and not immoral in any way. Likely it broke her heart too.

 

On 2/10/2020 at 3:23 PM, shapeshifter said:

I am assuming that Sidney does not blame Eliza for his broken heart because it would have been her duty to marry the rich old man, and that her own heart was equally broken. 
But that’s the way it was in Austen’s day and novels, and this series is not entirely following those rules. 

In Jane Austen's novels, it is foolish to marry without enough money (In Mansfield Park Fanny's mother lives in poverty and has too many children) but it is immoral to marry for only money (Sense and Sensibility Willoughy abandons Marrianne he loves and marries a rich woman). If there is mutual love and a few thousand pounds to support a family, that is enough for a good marriage (Elinor Dashford and Edmund Ferraes in Sense and Sensibility).

In Mansfield Park Mary Crawford is beautiful, witty and charming- but she is not a heroine because she values too much money and lacks "right" moral principles. 

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On 2/17/2020 at 11:03 PM, treeofdreams said:

I may be in the minority, but I do not see Charlotte and Sidney being a good match.  I just don't find them believable.  And it is too much a ripoff of Elizabeth and Darcy.

 

22 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Realistically, Stringer IS a better match for Charlotte than Sidney, both in terms of interests and status. They are basically the same status - both children of laborers, with enough wit and sense to probably do a little better than their parents. 

IMO, Sidney and Charlotte aren't much like Darcy and Elizabeth.  Darcy was rich, but he wasn't "better" than Elizabeth in terms of their stations. As Lizzie says to Lady Catherine, Darcy is a gentleman and she is a gentleman's daughter.  Sidney and Charlotte are mismatched in terms of station, not just wealth.

That being said, I do think that Theo James and Rose Williams have a lot of chemistry and have made it fun to watch those two characters spar together. But I like the Stringer character, too. So who ever she ends up, Charlotte is lucky. 

Also I am for Srtinger, but Charlotte fell in love with Sydney.

17 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Stringer and Charlotte would be better together but I think she really is in a vastly different social class.  Sidney is richer than Charlotte but I would guess by not much considering Eliza dumped him for someone with real money.

Yes, but Sidney got more money in Antinaque. 

14 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

Sidney is, however, an Austen man, all underlying goodness, broken past, and gruff exterior, so he's the dude for her.  The rowing scene prior to the regatta, as well as the dance scene in London the episode prior, really puts the chemistry on full tilt between Charlotte and Sidney. 

There are heroes of many kinds in Austen's novels. Not all are like Darcy. "Broken past" suits only to Colonel Brandon in Sense and Sensibility but he is outwardly good. Knightley in Emma and Captain Wentworth in Persuasion are outwardly good. Edmund Bertram in Mansfield Park is good but sometimes a prig. Edward Ferrars in Sense and Sensibility is honorable but rather dull. 

Austen is not romantic in the sense that she doesn't believe that seducers of other women become faithful husbands for heroines. Henry Crawford doesn't get Fanny in Mansfield Park nor Willoughy Marianne in Sense and Sensibility.

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36 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

No, but Willoughby seduced and abandoned Colonel Brandon's ward Eliza who bore a baby. Eliza was also an illegimate child.  

In Pride and Prejudice Elizabeth's kid sister Lydia eloped with Wickham and they lived together in London until Darcy paid Wickham to marry Lydia in order to save Elizabeth from shame and sorrow.

In Mansfied Henry Crawford who courted Fanny seduced her married cousin, Maria, and eloped with her but they separated.

So Jane Austen, although a spinster, was ignorant of life. But all this happened off-stage,

 

In Jane Austen's novels, it is foolish to marry without enough money (In Mansfield Park Fanny's mother lives in poverty and has too many children) but it is immoral to marry for only money (Sense and Sensibility Willoughy abandons Marrianne he loves and marries a rich woman). If there is mutual love and a few thousand pounds to support a family, that is enough for a good marriage (Elinor Dashford and Edmund Ferraes in Sense and Sensibility).

In Mansfield Park Mary Crawford is beautiful, witty and charming- but she is not a heroine because she values too much money and lacks "right" moral principles. 

Agreed that Austen takes a dim view of people marrying for purely mercenary purposes. But regardless, Sidney's feelings towards Eliza aren't likely particularly rational.  She did break his heart and even if he did understand it for practical reasons, I am sure that his emotions aren't all about that practicality.

That being said, for all of his considerable faults, I can't blame him for a). taking to heart what Arthur said about not being able to trust Eliza again and b). looking at Charlotte in a new light. To be fair to him, I suspect it was the combination of both of those things that had him look at Eliza differently - maybe if Charlotte weren't in the picture, he'd be happy to get back together with Eliza. But with Charlotte in the picture, he's rightfully looking at Eliza with clearer eyes than he did 10 years before. And that seems like a reasonable step for the character.

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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't see what difference it makes if Esther is the sole heir or whether there are 50 heirs. Lady Denham's will left everything to charity. I see no reason why she'd change her mind and leave everything to Esther in her new will, unless she's just that grateful for being tipped off about Edward and Clara. Even then I can't imagine her being that magnanimous. In any event let's hope she's learned her lesson and makes sure a copy remains with her attorney, safely locked up somewhere.

She left everything to charity, but looking at the state of the house, there's only the house to inherit anyway.  Lady Denham has spent her money, poorly on Sanditon.  They've been out of money for weeks with the workers, she is house rich but cash poor.  Esther won't need the money anyway if she gets with Babington.

Sidney is not rich.  He was dumped for lack of money and he hasn't been able to shore up Sanditon either.  As the younger brother of 3? brothers he wouldn't have inherited the family fortune and would only have a yearly stipend.  Interestingly, they haven't shown that traditionally the younger brothers would've gone into law or the church.

 

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6 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

That being said, for all of his considerable faults, I can't blame him for a). taking to heart what Arthur said about not being able to trust Eliza again and b). looking at Charlotte in a new light. To be fair to him, I suspect it was the combination of both of those things that had him look at Eliza differently - maybe if Charlotte weren't in the picture, he'd be happy to get back together with Eliza. But with Charlotte in the picture, he's rightfully looking at Eliza with clearer eyes than he did 10 years before. And that seems like a reasonable step for the character.

I agree.

I think Eliza made a grave mistake by behaving rudely to Charlotte before Sidney after seeing them rowing together. A real lady doesn't do that, however jealous (Elinor Dashworth was perfectly civil to Lucy who was engaged with Edward Ferrars in Sense and Sensibility).

Charlotte is also far prettier than Eliza. It would matter less if Charlotte were uneducated but she has read even Herakleitos...

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8 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

She left everything to charity, but looking at the state of the house, there's only the house to inherit anyway.  Lady Denham has spent her money, poorly on Sanditon.  They've been out of money for weeks with the workers, she is house rich but cash poor.  Esther won't need the money anyway if she gets with Babington.

Sidney is not rich.  He was dumped for lack of money and he hasn't been able to shore up Sanditon either.  As the younger brother of 3? brothers he wouldn't have inherited the family fortune and would only have a yearly stipend.  Interestingly, they haven't shown that traditionally the younger brothers would've gone into law or the church.

 

He clearly has money - he settled all of Otis' debt, which were pretty considerable.  We have been led to believe that he made a fortune in Antigua, probably on the sugar trade, even if he's now denounced it.  So yeah, he was dumped for lack of money but that was before he made whatever money he did - no doubt part of the reason why Eliza is sniffing around is because she knows Sid isn't the poor relation he was beforehand.

His unwillingness to "shore up" Sanditon seems more about not wanting to invest so much in Tom, who has big dreams but doesn't exactly seem to have a ton of business sense. (Which, to be fair, I can't blame Sidney for, much as I like Tom's vision for the town).

One thing I don't know is if Sidney gets anything financially by being Georgiana's guardian. He must have some control of her money in terms of money that is spent on her. But as her legal guardian, I don't know if he gets some kind of stipend because I'm not sure what the financial arrangements looked like in Georgian England at that time. 

 

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6 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

Sidney is not rich.  He was dumped for lack of money and he hasn't been able to shore up Sanditon either.  As the younger brother of 3? brothers he wouldn't have inherited the family fortune and would only have a yearly stipend.  Interestingly, they haven't shown that traditionally the younger brothers would've gone into law or the church.

Sidney was in West Indies where he evidently had a plantage but he told Charlotte that he came to see owning slaves wrong. Anyway, he could help Mr Parker, so he has enough money to marry.

Was the house in London Sidney's or Mr Parker's?

In the chapters that Austen wrote it is said that Sidney was wealthy. Maybe he was adopted by some relative and inherited him, like one of Austen's brothers. 

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RE: elopement in Sense and sensibility 

I believe  Lucy Steele eloped with Edward's brother Robert Ferrars, leaving Edward off the hook. 

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10 hours ago, PattyG said:

RE: elopement in Sense and sensibility 

I believe  Lucy Steele eloped with Edward's brother Robert Ferrars, leaving Edward off the hook. 

Yes, that also. 

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Eliza made a second mistake by saying to Sidney that she had waited ten years for him. Not only because a lady should never have revealed his feelings before the gentleman had done so, but because she revealed openly that she hadn't cared for his late husband at all. When she had decided to marry for money, she should have tried to make the marriage work which is impossible if you are dreaming of another man all the time.

In Persuasion William Elliot, their to Anne's father, was known to have married for money, but it was regarded indelicate that the death of his wife hadn't affect him at all. 

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On 2/18/2020 at 8:37 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

Re: Eliza v. Charlotte in looks. See, to me, Eliza looks older but not in a good way, thin-lipped, bland (sorry, Theo), while Charlotte is long-haired, full-lipped, and ripe for the picking. But beyond appearances, Eliza is here pursuing Sidney, whereas Charlotte has done anything but. Finally, as to Sidney with Eliza: BT, DT. With Charlotte, he knows he will get honesty.

BT, DT?

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3 hours ago, Popples said:

Been There, Done That

Oh! Thank you, popples! I looked it up but was getting weird stuff! 😮

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On 2/18/2020 at 8:37 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

Re: Eliza v. Charlotte in looks. See, to me, Eliza looks older but not in a good way, thin-lipped, bland (sorry, Theo), while Charlotte is long-haired, full-lipped, and ripe for the picking. But beyond appearances, Eliza is here pursuing Sidney, whereas Charlotte has done anything but. Finally, as to Sidney with Eliza: BT, DT. With Charlotte, he knows he will get honesty.

I see that the actress who plays Eliza is 5 years older than the one who plays Charlotte. Eliza looks more mature than Charlotte, as she should.  Charlotte looks very young in a baby-ish way, one reason why I think she and Sidney look so ill-matched.

Eliza is more of what for many years was considered classic beauty in film -- blonde hair, blue eyes, pale skin.  Charlotte is more representative of the new idea of beauty in film -- brown hair, brown eyes, large lips, darker skin.  It's all according to the look each of us thinks is prettier.  I've seen modern day pictures of Ruth Kearney (Eliza) and think she's a knock out.  

Sometimes the personality of a character can make the actor appear uglier.  Charlotte is the heroine, the sweet girl, and that might make her seem prettier.  Eliza is the gold digger who threw Sidney over once, an uglier personality, and that might make her appear less attractive.  

 

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53 minutes ago, Possum said:

I see that the actress who plays Eliza is 5 years older than the one who plays Charlotte. Eliza looks more mature than Charlotte, as she should.  Charlotte looks very young in a baby-ish way, one reason why I think she and Sidney look so ill-matched.

Eliza is more of what for many years was considered classic beauty in film -- blonde hair, blue eyes, pale skin.  Charlotte is more representative of the new idea of beauty in film -- brown hair, brown eyes, large lips, darker skin.  It's all according to the look each of us thinks is prettier.  I've seen modern day pictures of Ruth Kearney (Eliza) and think she's a knock out.  

Sometimes the personality of a character can make the actor appear uglier.  Charlotte is the heroine, the sweet girl, and that might make her seem prettier.  Eliza is the gold digger who threw Sidney over once, an uglier personality, and that might make her appear less attractive.  

 

AKA, "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." 😉

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Finally watched the latest episode (random thoughts not in order):

First and foremost, "Poor Mr. Stringer" dialed up to an 11. Uughh my heart goes out for him. If i was charlotte i'd dump sidney in heartbeat for stringer. I feel like they're trying a slight lizzie x darcy angle and it's not working. Sidney's screamed at her one too many times and i found the whole, 'he's not such a bad person after all!' reveal/storyline from last episode awkward and rushed. Meh. 

I'm glad to see that stringer's dad seems to be doing well for the time being.

And of course Lady Susan comes all this way to finish her convo with charlotte; a random girl she met a party whom she shared one convo with (and it was mainly charlotte blabbing about everything). 😕

i was gonna be so angry if the working men were beaten in the regatta. They should have easily out-muscled the parker bros and won by a larger margin imo.

Jolly Parker continues to grow on me. He's just so nice and...jolly. 😛And i like how he just wants miss lambe to have a nice time. They're an interesting combo. I'm not sure if there's romance on the horizon for these two, but i'll be happy enough if they become friends at least.  

Bye-bye clara. She was such a schemer. A good antagonist. I might actually miss her. Edward concerns me a bit. I hope he doesn't try to pull anything dangerous. He's already looking dangerous.

My mom and I both cheered when Lady Denham 'rose like a phoenix from the ashes.' We also cheered when she gave clara and edward the boot. 

I adore babington. I also adore babington x esther. It feels a bit rushed along with some of the other plotlines, but they're making it work well enough with the time allotted to them.

Stringer & Babington & Jolly Parker bro > Sidney.

The list of sanditon men i prefer over sidney keeps growing. 

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1 hour ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Edward concerns me a bit. I hope he doesn't try to pull anything dangerous. He's already looking dangerous.

Perhaps Edward will go off to drown his sorrows and actually drown? IDK. He and Clara deserve each other, but no children deserve them as parents. Maybe Clara is infertile from a back-alley abortion during her truly tragic past. Clara may have more legitimate reasons for being a con artist, but they are still morally equal.

 

1 hour ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Stringer & Babington & Jolly Parker bro > Sidney.

The list of sanditon men i prefer over sidney keeps growing. 

Yes, Sidney better pull off something truly self-sacrificing and heroic in the last episode, because shirtless Sidney/Theo James is not going to make Charlotte happy 20 years hence.

Edited by shapeshifter · Reason: switch pronoun to noun in case of future post quoting for clarity

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I fear that Lord Babington is another, along with Stringer, who is completely fucked. Stringer because he won't get the woman he wants, and Babington because he will. I hope I'm wrong, but I see a day years hence when, alcoholic and broke, he curses the day he met Esther. I worry she has a lot of acting out yet to do, and will be a beguiling but ultimately cold and withholding spouse.

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On 2/17/2020 at 7:28 AM, susannot said:

Does anyone think Miss Lambe may end up with the youngest Parker brother?  She seems to be amused by him.  And he sought her out to coax her to go to the regatta.

Agree that  Austen's matrimonial pairings are all about redistribution of the wealth.  Excellent point.  If Young Mr. Stringer marries Charlotte's sister he would be brother-in-law to Sidney, which would cause him to advance in the world, a plot thread set out I the first or second episode.

 

On 2/17/2020 at 9:34 AM, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure I feel sorry for her. She's no victim despite what Lord Babington seems to think. She was a willing participant until she found out Edward slept with Clara. I can understand why Lord Babington finds her so beguiling but at the end of the day I'd be worried she's still going to spend the rest of her life mooning over Edward.

I'm on board with Miss Lambe marrying Arthur Parker. He seems blithely unaware of her distaste for him.

 

On 2/17/2020 at 9:25 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

I think the only new pairing, besides Sidney and Charlotte, will be of Lord Babington and Esther. *

Clara is off to make her way, as is the no-longer-useful-chararacter Eliza (a very confident real-life wife, I might add!). The latter would, IMO, have no interest in the now-impecunious Edward.

I think Young Stringer will see his fortunes progress as the builder of note for Tom and Sanditon. At the regatta he conceded his loss of Charlotte to Sidney. Would he consider a sister of Charlotte's? Dangerous romantic ground, there. How many seasons do we have?! But a shame to let this handsome actor's storyline just fritter away!

*Miss Lamb and Jolly Parker? Might not the frisson of an inter-racial pairing overshadow our main romance?

I think you meant, "...but she his."

The drawn-out plot is maddening. I love my British poets, but novelists? Not so much.

 

 

I too was thinking the show was hinting at pairing up Arthur & Miss Lambe. Opposites attract and all that...I think they would temper each other (her petulance/sullenness and his anxiety/buffoonery) to achieve a nice equilibrium.

But ah, yes, there is the racial angle. We can't dismiss that in that day and age, it would have been quite the scandal. But, say they were to move to the West Indies, perhaps their pairing would be more acceptable...?  I'm just spitballing here.

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On 2/17/2020 at 2:32 PM, Shanna Marie said:

She was the one Charlotte spilled her guts to at the ball in the previous episode, when she rambled on and on about what happened to Georgiana, and how Sydney came to the rescue. Instead of (more realistically, for that era) being horrified that this random girl just started yammering at her without so much as a proper introduction, she was apparently so charmed by Charlotte that she traveled across country to come talk to her some more.

I was resisting the Mary Sue label because I hate that term and think it has become overused, particularly in a way that gets applied to any female character who is at all liked or competent, but, yeah, Charlotte has become a prime example. I'd been thinking Charlotte's loose lips would bring some kind of ruin to Georgiana's reputation by letting it get out in society that she was compromised, but instead she saves the town and the Parkers by charming a society leader into bringing all her friends to watch a rowboat race.

I am fanwanking that rather than be outraged at Charlotte's verbal diarrhea, Lady Susan was bored by the strict decorum of the day, so was charmed at meeting someone who amused her, who seemed to know no filter. That would have been refreshing to someone like Lady Susan, who, presumably, was treated with kid gloves and obsequiousness by everyone else around her because they knew she was the Prince Regent's "special" lady friend. Lady Susan also seems to be taking Charlotte under her wing a la Emma Woodhouse with Harriet Smith.

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Welp.

The only good thing about this episode was Esther's heel-face turn* and the youngest Parker brother's kindness toward Miss Lambe and admission to being gay a confirmed bachelor.

The "lost series finale" fanfiction starts... NOW!

 

*-if she was ever really a heel, or just led about by her stepbrother via the power of lust and came to her senses just in the nick of time.  YMMV, restrictions may apply, eyes on your own paper, etc.

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Sad and bittersweet ending. 

Only one happy ending--Esther and Lord Babington.

Jane would have found a way to bring Sidney and Charlotte together.

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I was going to buy this series, but now not so much. That was like ending sex before orgasm. Thanks Masterpiece. ;-(

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Just now, Nidratime said:

I was going to buy this series, but now not so much. That was like ending sex before orgasm. Thanks Masterpiece. ;-(

Right, no longer.

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*happy dancing*

Charlotte and Sidney didn't technically end up together and i am 100% ok with that (and i don't care who knows it)

meanwhile the superior OTP got their happy ending (babington x esther ftw!)

looks like they made it clear that ms lambe and jolly parker bro aren't heading towards romance, but i'm totally here for the friendship they've struck up

MR. YOUNG STRINGER DESERVED BETTER. But hey, at least with no season 2 i can headcanon that he avoids being evelyn napier-ed into oblivion. He looked so dapper in his ball outfit.

Lord Grantham vs. Mr. Parker: who's worse with their money, let's go!

Why was sidney surprised at how much his bro owed? He's been the one doing most of the money scrounging for him...he had to have some idea of how much he owed.

I'm glad edward didn't do anything worse than bust into the ball (yeah sure, outing his and esther's situation was not good, but at least there was no violence or anything like that)

*I really didn't care for the lighting/color scheme/atmosphere? of the ball it was very...bleh. 

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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I suppose Sidney and Charlotte would have found a way to get together if there had been a season two.  Oh well.

I think I have put my finger on why I can't get engaged with Sanditon - it is because the characters have no depth.  Esther is the only one who I find interesting but the others all seem so flat.  Hmmm.

Edited by treeofdreams
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Well. I was disappointed that "Press" ended after one season, and now I can add to my disappointment "Sanditon."

MY ending, if no Season 2 for sure, would have had:

Sidney proposing to and being accepted by Charlotte;

Lady Susan providing the re-building funds, in return for a percentage of ownership;

And the same Babington/Esther marriage. 

I mean, seriously; what would have been the skin off the writer's nose, to give us the romance we were led to hope for? 

Instead, we got that lame move by Sidney to stop Charlotte's carriage, raising her hopes, only to crush them again. 

Bah.

 

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Fucking hell!  I have a couple friends that watched the whole thing and haven't been engaging with me about it, now I know why.  THAT is how it ends?!  And there is no more?  It is messed up that they gambled on a season 2, and now all that will be left is fanfic. 

Poor Stringer!  He's the real dude that got screwed: Dad's dead after a big fight, lost the girl, AND gave up on his big London dreams?!  Come to mama, I'll make it all better.  Stringer deserved better!

I'm a sucker b/c I was HERE for the cliff walk and kiss with Sidney and Charlotte (close your eyes, fellow Austenites), and they were so cute at the ball redoing that balcony scene.  The way it ended when Sidney came back was so very tragic. WTH?! Him stopping the carriage was just cruel. 

Is Jolly Bro basically saying he is gay, and has no interest in the ladies?  He really grew on me.  I loved that even with his whinging, he was the first to jump in to throw water on the fire. Turned out to be one of my fav supporting characters.

I am RAGING at those people collecting money on PBS before the show started:  "In true Austen fashion, a satisfying ending". Fuck outta here!  Why!  WHY!?

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Definitely *not* an Austenian ending. Hrmph.

At the very least Sidney would have not expressed any truly heartfelt regret at abandoning Charlotte, and Jane would have had Charlotte realize she loved Young Stringer all along. 

I'll give the writers credit for deft foreshadowing in the episode: Georgiana warning Charlotte about Sidney breaking her heart.

And I am relieved that my momentary fear that Sidney had married off Georigiana for the money was not realized. But if he had, then Charlotte would have definitely thrown him over for Stringer, and advised Stringer to leave Sanditon for London. 

So was a second season ever going to be a thing? If so, what was it going to have?

Edited by shapeshifter · Reason: Typo
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I hated the unhappy ending. Except for Lord Babington, who I liked a lot, and I'm glad at least that he and Esther are apparently going to be great together.

Why would Sidney be so willing to give up the woman he supposedly wanted, just to bail out his dipshit brother once again? Tom is so undeserving of such a sacrifice. He would have probably had the money for insurance if he hadn't wasted so much of it buying expensive and unnecessary jewelry for his wife.

Even if Eliza dies soon in the terrible accident I'm imagining for her, I don't think Charlotte should take him back. Stopping her carriage and raising her hopes, only to spout some platitudes to make himself feel less guilty? Sorry Sidney, I do think badly of you.

My ending is that she realizes that she's actually in love with Stringer, who becomes a famous and wealthy architect (maybe in America?), and they live happily ever after.

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So, class, how do we reconcile the ending with our great expectations?

Charlotte---Loses her naivete and heart, but ultimately not for the better man. She returns home the proverbially sadder but wiser. 

Sidney---Loses his world-weariness and heart, but ultimately finds that blood is thicker than true love. He prefers going through life a misunderstood man.

Eliza---"Wins" with money, the false triumph of cynicism over love.

Esther---Learns that love calms the soul and that attractiveness shines from within.

Lord Babington---Shows us the true transformative and redemptive power of love. 

Tom Parker--- Exemplifies the true visionary, willing the present to bend to the future. 

Young Mr. Stringer---Exemplifies the other half of the visionary coin: its manifestation. Personal desires, whether love or career, are secondary.

Jolly Parker---Resigns himself to a life without true love, much like his brother Sidney, and for the same reason: blood ties. 

Sister Parker---See above.

Ah, well. I'm not much of a fan for writing beyond the book; the end is the end. But perhaps the next time we visit a resort of renown, we can toss a thought to its own visionary, its builders, its real stories behind the history.

 

Edited by LennieBriscoe
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8 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

 

Why was sidney surprised at how much his bro owed? He's been the one doing most of the money scrounging for him...he had to have some idea of how much he owed.

He wasn't surprised by how much Tom owed. He was surprised that Tom hadn't insured the project. 

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