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I do hope the 3 siblings read Mom's will, and, if it really was a will (and not an F-U message To Whom It May Concern) that we get to hear them discussing its contents. 
  

15 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

Kemi looked so different on her date I didn't even recognize her at first.

Kemi looked surprisingly pretty on her date. I was torn between being amused by her reaction to a boring man (I've heard a few) and sad that Kemi wasn't listening, because at least he was talking about doing noble acts of kindness (unlike what most boring men drone on about). 

Edited by shapeshifter
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Yeah, I really don't like Bob's kids siblings and his mom is not much better, so I wasn't a big fan of this episode.  I think they think writing the two kids siblings like two big imbeciles is funny but it's really not.  It's just pathetic in a cringeworthy way.  The way Bob's mother treated them was also pretty gag inducing, as was the way she went on about Jews.  Just yuck, especially the bit about the massager.  😝  I did like the sub plot with Kemi and the pharmacist, though.  The work women are fantastic.

Edited by Yeah No
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1 minute ago, Yeah No said:

Bob's kids

They're his siblings, not his kids. You knew that, right?

1 minute ago, Yeah No said:

The work women are fantastic.

I loved being able to hear Gloria's (Vernée Watson) thoughts when Abishola and Kemi were sitting at the lunch table with her and trying to make amends but kept saying offensive stuff.

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5 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I loved being able to hear Gloria's (Vernée Watson) thoughts when Abishola and Kemi were sitting at the lunch table with her and trying to make amends but kept saying offensive stuff.

When she said "How do you feel about Puerto Rican cops?"  I died laughing because I once dated a Puerto Rican Cop many years ago!  I'm still trying to figure out what "Splitting the Hairs" refers to, though.

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5 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

What a Eh episode seriously 

Yeah, it was like, "Well, if we end the episode with an adorable moment between Bob and Abishola, that will keep the people happy, right?" 

And...well...I guess it kind of WAS enough for me to be happy, but come on, show, don't rely TOO much on the adorableness of Bob and Abishola's relationship! Put some more work into the rest of the show (Abishola's fight with Kemi was fun, but the will plot was weeeeeeak). 

Edited by Brian Cronin
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I am pretty sure Dottie divided the company up equally between the 3 siblings and she is just messing with them. I liked how chic Christina looked at the end of the episode when they sealed the will, she was so pretty. Douglas cleaned up good too!

It was funny how Abishola kissed Bob just to disract him and change the subect. I had to resort to that trick myself way too many times 🦠

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I think they are attempting to make Dottie like Archie from All in the family. And let’s all be realistic here people from her generation (hell even people from today’s generation also) do hold and still have racist views to pretend like they don’t is sticking your head in the sand. 

Edited by Keywestclubkid
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This may sound harsh, but I wouldn't be sad if Dottie shuffled off this mortal coil sooner rather than later.  With her Jewish comments in this episode, I think they're trying to make her look like an equal opportunity bigot.  So it's not that she's racist against Black people (or immigrants since some folks refuse to believe Abishola's race had anything to do with it).  She just makes fun of all non-WASP ethnics, so it's no big deal and she doesn't mean any harm because look, the Jew lawyer even makes fun of himself!  Plus, she's an adorable lady who had a stroke, so just cut her some slack.  I'm done with Dottie and her nonsense.

I really wish we could have gotten subtitles when Abishola and Kemi were arguing in Yoruba.  It would be nice to know what they were saying.  I felt like Gloria, sitting there clueless about what was being said but still wanting to be included.

I adored how Abishola took up for Bob during Kemi's game.  I like when she said, "I choose Bob."  It would be nice if she actually said that to Bob himself.  I know she kissed him, but that was really just to distract him.  I still thought it was an adorable moment between them, no matter how cheesy it was.

Edited by TheLotusFlower
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RE: Dottie's racism.  Strokes sometimes compromise social filters. My mother had a stroke in her 70's and we had to be careful with her in public because she would loudly say stuff she used to keep to herself.  Some of it was racist, which surprised us because Mom did not say racist things before her stroke. The worst were loud observations on young women's skimpy clothing. "IT LOOKS AS IF SHE FORGET TO GET DRESSED THIS MORNING!" I sometimes feared we would be asked to leave a restaurant.  

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3 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I think they are attempting to make Dottie like Archie from All in the family. And let’s all be realistic here people from her generation (hell even people from today’s generation also) do hold and still have racist views to pretend like they don’t is sticking your head in the sand. 

So my parents are probably Dottie's age - 70s to 80s and even though they claim they are not racist and get so angry when a "liberal" implies they are even though I had a whole argument about how Jew is not a verb and my dad literally used a racist slur for an Hispanic person while I was there last week. It's hard. 

I did love Bob and Abishola in this episode. I like that she's warmed up to him. I liked that she kissed him. I just like the two of them together. I could do without Dottie and the siblings. 

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2 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I think they are attempting to make Dottie like Archie from All in the family. And let’s all be realistic here people from her generation (hell even people from today’s generation also) do hold and still have racist views to pretend like they don’t is sticking your head in the sand. 

I'm constantly amazed at how many people only a few years older than me are pretty bigoted.  I have older friends and acquaintances I can't tell I'm part Jewish because of that.  These are people I have heard making negative comments about Jews not knowing I am part Jew.  I know some people would disown them as friends but it's more complicated than that.  Meanwhile I can't think of any people around my age (61) that are bigoted like that.  We were brought up from a very young age in the great civil rights era and have a very different outlook.  This is why I agreed with that guy that called us "Generation Jones" as opposed to Baby Boomers.  We don't remember the 1950s.  In many ways we are our own generation.

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I'm just saying you cant turn on the tv today or even go to a fast food place without seeing or hearing about someone being a racist asshole and thinking that its perfectly ok because this is THEIR country ... the video after videos of people in public just straight out being racist and telling people to speak English and go back to your country or following someone around and berating them about how dare they not be white and be in this country or how dare you not be Christian this is a christian nation go back to your own country  is astounding ... so to act like these people don't exist in the real world and how dare they have this on a television show ...when people have to deal with this reality everyday these people are out there and have these views to pretend like this isn't real is sticking your head in the sand ...racist people exist this show is just showing one of those racist people ... at least with Dottie she is showing some growth ....

Edited by Keywestclubkid
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3 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I'm just saying you cant turn on the tv today or even go to a fast food place without seeing or hearing about someone being a racist asshole and thinking that its perfectly ok because this is THEIR country ... the video after videos of people in public just straight out being racist and telling people to speak English and go back to your country or following someone around and berating them about how dare they not be white and be in this country or how dare you not be Christian this is a christian nation go back to your own country  is astounding ... so to act like these people don't exist in the real world and how dare they have this on a television show ...when people have to deal with this reality everyday is kinda funny

I was just in a Wendy's last week and the Hispanic woman at the counter was telling her manager about a customer that called her a racial slur.  I could hardly believe it because until recently this was definitely not a common occurrence, especially in my area.  I do think the number of racist assholes has declined overall in recent generations but the ones that still exist are just more vocal and visible these days for a lot of reasons (such as being empowered to do so by people with political agendas on the internet, etc.) 

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For me, it's not so much about the creators writing a fictional character who holds and expresses racial/ethnic/anti-semitic/cultural/etc, etc, biases, since there are many real people just like that. The show reflects reality in including the character. What I don't like is the way the character spouts the offensive lines and the producers just run the standard laugh track as if it is just another cute joke to entertain the audience. Those "jokes" aren't funny so for the producers to package the show as if they are is the true insult. I agree they are now turning Dottie into an Archie Bunker replica - bigot with a heart, whatever that means. Except---All in the Family premiered 50 years ago, half a fricken century!  When the studio audience would laugh at the character's ignorant rants, it was a completely different context. I also don't think Dottie is meant to be anywhere as ignorant or oblivious as Archie - Dottie has lived and experienced these past 50 years, which is another reason why the glib way the producers treat her lines as harmless sitcom fodder is somewhat offensive. 

At its heart, this show is about an upper middle class American WASP falling in love with a black Nigerian immigrant, and vice versa. Racism, xenophobia, and culture clash are legitimate subjects to tackle, but it should be done with more thoughtfulness and sensitivity than is occurring here. 

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29 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I'm just saying you cant turn on the tv today or even go to a fast food place without seeing or hearing about someone being a racist asshole and thinking that its perfectly ok because this is THEIR country ... the video after videos of people in public just straight out being racist and telling people to speak English and go back to your country or following someone around and berating them about how dare they not be white and be in this country or how dare you not be Christian this is a christian nation go back to your own country  is astounding ... so to act like these people don't exist in the real world and how dare they have this on a television show ...when people have to deal with this reality everyday these people are out there and have these views to pretend like this isn't real is sticking your head in the sand ...racist people exist this show is just showing one of those racist people ... at least with Dottie she is showing some growth ....

Who's pretending it isn't real?  Many of us who have complained about Dottie's ignorance are people who have actually been the recipient of this kind behavior first hand in real life.  So believe me, we aren't the ones sticking our heads in the sand.  The main complaint we had was the rather unrealistic way that Abishola quickly forgave Dottie, and that the topic was never even addressed again.  Abishola didn't even mention it to Bob, and I just don't see that as plausible.  At least with the Jewish comments, Bob was actually there to tell her it's wrong.  But those comments were presented in a much more light-hearted manner than her tirade towards Abishola.  I don't see the "growth" that you see in Dottie.  Just because she's no longer talking to Abishola like she's sub-human, that doesn't mean she's suddenly enlightened.  She just decided to treat her caregiver/her son's love interest (and by extension, her family) like human beings.  I've already addressed this topic in an earlier episode discussion.  Bigoted people often make exceptions for specific individuals of a given race, sexual orientation, nationality, etc. that they generally view negatively.  But that doesn't mean they're no longer racist, homophobic, or xenophobic.  

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7 minutes ago, sd dude said:

For me, it's not so much about the creators writing a fictional character who holds and expresses racial/ethnic/anti-semitic/cultural/etc, etc, biases, since there are many real people just like that. The show reflects reality in including the character. What I don't like is the way the character spouts the offensive lines and the producers just run the standard laugh track as if it is just another cute joke to entertain the audience. Those "jokes" aren't funny so for the producers to package the show as if they are is the true insult. I agree they are now turning Dottie into an Archie Bunker replica - bigot with a heart, whatever that means. Except---All in the Family premiered 50 years ago, half a fricken century!  When the studio audience would laugh at the character's ignorant rants, it was a completely different context. I also don't think Dottie is meant to be anywhere as ignorant or oblivious as Archie - Dottie has lived and experienced these past 50 years, which is another reason why the glib way the producers treat her lines as harmless sitcom fodder is somewhat offensive. 

At its heart, this show is about an upper middle class American WASP falling in love with a black Nigerian immigrant, and vice versa. Racism, xenophobia, and culture clash are legitimate subjects to tackle, but it should be done with more thoughtfulness and sensitivity than is occurring here. 

Yes, yes, and yes again!  I posted my response at the same time that you were posting yours.  The whole issue is how Dottie's behavior is addressed (or not addressed) in the show, not that racist, anti-semetic, etc. behavior is included in the show.  It's either completely ignored/dismissed or treated like a lighthearted joke.  It will be 2020 in a couple of weeks.  They need to do better when tackling these issues.

Edited by TheLotusFlower
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14 hours ago, Yeah No said:

When she said "How do you feel about Puerto Rican cops?"  I died laughing because I once dated a Puerto Rican Cop many years ago!  I'm still trying to figure out what "Splitting the Hairs" refers to, though.

Could Splitting the Hairs be a play on words from Splitting the Heirs?

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10 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

Yes, yes, and yes again!  I posted my response at the same time that you were posting yours.  The whole issue is how Dottie's behavior is addressed (or not addressed) in the show, not that racist, anti-semetic, etc. behavior is included in the show.  It's either completely ignored/dismissed or treated like a lighthearted joke.  It will be 2020 in a couple of weeks.  They need to do better when tackling these issues.

That's very true.  At least on "All in the Family" "The Meathead" never let Archie get away with his racist comments without saying something.  On this show Dottie gets away with saying these things and no one reacts.  Not good.

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14 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

they're trying to make her look like an equal opportunity bigot. 

All y'all are so much better than I am at explaining what I'm trying to say/type. Thank you.
  
  

14 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

I really wish we could have gotten subtitles when Abishola and Kemi were arguing in Yoruba.  It would be nice to know what they were saying.  I felt like Gloria, sitting there clueless about what was being said but still wanting to be included.

Seriously. What was up with that? Do the actors not speak Yoruba well enough to say relevant stuff that could be translated?
  
  

13 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

When Abishola was "floating" towards Kemi on that IV stand,

Thank you for reminding us about that bit. Totally not a "meh" episode.
  
  

11 hours ago, sd dude said:

At its heart, this show is about an upper middle class American WASP falling in love with a black Nigerian immigrant, and vice versa. Racism, xenophobia, and culture clash are legitimate subjects to tackle, but it should be done with more thoughtfulness and sensitivity than is occurring here. 

34 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

That's very true.  At least on "All in the Family" "The Meathead" never let Archie get away with his racist comments without saying something.  On this show Dottie gets away with saying these things and no one reacts.  Not good.

Exactly. I like to imagine the actors and writers are Googling to see what we're saying and are actually finding their way to our comments here, but I guess "imagine" is the operative word. 
Oh well. The collective consciousness should find its way to the writers' room.
  
  

8 hours ago, aimlessbird said:
23 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I'm still trying to figure out what "Splitting the Hairs" refers to, though.

Could Splitting the Hairs be a play on words from Splitting the Heirs?

Oy. Totally! I am getting too old to catch stuff like that, but even though I'm probably the oldest one here and older than any of the other old people whose age is being used as the reason for their being racist or otherwise bigoted, I like to think I'm a little more woke than that -- but probably because I've lived and worked with a variety of folks since I was younger than any of you. Get off of my lawn. Wait. Where is my lawn? Oh. I don't have a lawn. 

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Kemi looked so cute on her date! I get why she ended up ditching Chukwuemeka, as he really is super dull and full of himself, despite is perfectly proportioned head! Chukwuemeka is actually a somewhat complex character for a minor romantic complication for OTP Bob and Abishola. He is superficially charming, but also quite dull and self centered, and is something of an old school sexist, but also does seem to have some noble goals in raising money to help struggling people in Nigeria. I wonder if he will pop up again?

We finally get a Bob and Abishola kiss, and it was adorable! I also loved that she told Kemi that she thought that Bob was good looking, and that she insisted in him "winning" on Kemis list of possible boyfriends. They really work so well together, ice for breakfast and all!

Dottie manipulating her kids into doing stuff for her and listening to her advice was kind of funny, but Dottie is definitely my least favorite character. They seem to be doubling down on her being a generally racist asshole, and I am not really here for it. Especially this week, her crappy racist and anti semetic comments just seemed to exist for cheap yuks (even if Bob at least told her that what she was saying wasnt ok) and unless this is part of some greater character arc that will actually impact the plot (like Bob finding out what Dottie said to Abishola after they are getting more serious, and he doesent want to be around Dottie anymore) its just awkward. I get that racism and dealing with it and general culture clashes is basically baked into the premise of the show, but Dottie just saying racist stuff isnt really doing much for that, especially when the show seems to be trying to have their cake and eat it too, having people telling Dottie that her comments suck, but also trying to get laughs from it.

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6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:


  Oy. Totally! I am getting too old to catch stuff like that, but even though I'm probably the oldest one here and older than any of the other old people whose age is being used as the reason for their being racist or otherwise bigoted, I like to think I'm a little more woke than that -- but probably because I've lived and worked with a variety of folks since I was younger than any of you. Get off of my lawn. Wait. Where is my lawn? Oh. I don't have a lawn. 

I think you and I could compete on that score.  Having grown up in the Bronx and lived and worked there in a very culturally diverse environment back in the 1960s through the 90s, I have a hard time understanding some of the more "un-woke" people out there in any age bracket.  It just boggles my mind.  I never even thought about this before because to me, my experiences were "normal".  It never even crossed my mind until this year that my wedding party had 3 races represented, one gay man and a couple of Jews 40 years ago.  Why would it?  Diversity was normal to me and I never even looked at those things!  When I moved to my present New England city 18 years ago I ended up living in a similarly culturally and racially mixed neighborhood and a lot of people I worked with would turn their noses up when they heard where I lived.  These were people that supposedly championed themselves on how liberal and non-prejudiced they were.  Meanwhile they came from towns that were 99.5% white.....

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14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

but also does seem to have some noble goals in raising money to help struggling people in Nigeria.

But it seems to me like the noble goals are so that he looks good and can brag about the good works he is doing. He's got kind of a god complex. 

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16 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

But it seems to me like the noble goals are so that he looks good and can brag about the good works he is doing. He's got kind of a god complex. 

Also, if I understood what he was saying correctly, his plan was that his website would give recommendations for what medications to take and he would get 0.50$ from then drug companies for each recommendation. That is shady. 

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On 12/17/2019 at 12:35 AM, Yeah No said:

Yeah, I did I mustn't have been paying attention when I wrote that!

Because he looks/acts like their father, they are immature. I keep thinking they are his kids too. If this show is renewed I hope they go out for a beer and don't come back.

Edited by msrachelj
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On 12/17/2019 at 7:35 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

I think they are attempting to make Dottie like Archie from All in the family. And let’s all be realistic here people from her generation (hell even people from today’s generation also) do hold and still have racist views to pretend like they don’t is sticking your head in the sand. 

Her generation?  Baby boomers? No more racist than anyone else. She isn't of the "greatest" ( I hate that determination) generation. 

On 12/17/2019 at 11:38 AM, joanne3482 said:

So my parents are probably Dottie's age - 70s to 80s and even though they claim they are not racist and get so angry when a "liberal" implies they are even though I had a whole argument about how Jew is not a verb and my dad literally used a racist slur for an Hispanic person while I was there last week. It's hard. 

I did love Bob and Abishola in this episode. I like that she's warmed up to him. I liked that she kissed him. I just like the two of them together. I could do without Dottie and the siblings. 

And there you have it. It's not her age that makes her racist, it's her (people's) conservatism. 

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I'm constantly amazed at how many people only a few years older than me are pretty bigoted.  I have older friends and acquaintances I can't tell I'm part Jewish because of that.  These are people I have heard making negative comments about Jews not knowing I am part Jew.  I know some people would disown them as friends but it's more complicated than that.  Meanwhile I can't think of any people around my age (61) that are bigoted like that.  We were brought up from a very young age in the great civil rights era and have a very different outlook.  This is why I agreed with that guy that called us "Generation Jones" as opposed to Baby Boomers.  We don't remember the 1950s.  In many ways we are our own generation.

 

Agree.

NEWS FLASH: racism has less to do with your age and more to do with your religious and political beliefs unfortunately. Please think about it. 

Edited by msrachelj
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On 12/17/2019 at 1:00 PM, TheLotusFlower said:

Yes, yes, and yes again!  I posted my response at the same time that you were posting yours.  The whole issue is how Dottie's behavior is addressed (or not addressed) in the show, not that racist, anti-semetic, etc. behavior is included in the show.  It's either completely ignored/dismissed or treated like a lighthearted joke.  It will be 2020 in a couple of weeks.  They need to do better when tackling these issues.

Well also, remember this is a Chuck Lorre show and you can only hope for so much.

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20 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

But it seems to me like the noble goals are so that he looks good and can brag about the good works he is doing. He's got kind of a god complex. 

At least he is doing good. Some people need to be recognized. It's human behavior. Not everyone can be Gandhi  or Mother Teresa. 

3 hours ago, Dbolt said:

Also, if I understood what he was saying correctly, his plan was that his website would give recommendations for what medications to take and he would get 0.50$ from then drug companies for each recommendation. That is shady. 

The ENTIRE drug company and reps selling to doctors is shady! 

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1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

At least he is doing good. Some people need to be recognized. It's human behavior. Not everyone can be Gandhi  or Mother Teresa. 

I totally agree with that in general. But, to me, it would be an unattractive quality in a potential romantic partner that he felt the need to brag about his good deeds. To me it shows he's somewhat selfish and would make me wonder if every time he did something nice for me or the house or our kids would he expect some sort of grand thanks, you know?   

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12 hours ago, msrachelj said:

Because he looks/acts like their father, they are immature. I keep thinking they are his kids too. If this show is renewed I hope they go out for a beer and don't come back.

You're right, it would be easy to mistake them for his kids just based on their immature behavior, but it's also their appearance, plus the fact that the actors are all considerably younger than Billy Gardell.  He's 50, meanwhile his younger brother is played by an actor that's 12 years younger than he is and the actress playing his sister is 9 years younger.  I know those age differences are not unheard of in the real world but in this case both actors seem so out of place next to him it's almost like they were miscast.

11 hours ago, msrachelj said:

NEWS FLASH: racism has less to do with your age and more to do with your religious and political beliefs unfortunately. Please think about it. 

I've known people from all walks of life/religious/political beliefs and don't think any particular religion or political belief makes someone more or less inclined to be a racist.  And I definitely wouldn't want to draw any general connection between one and the other - It wouldn't be fair to a whole lot of decent people, IMO. 

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10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

You're right, it would be easy to mistake them for his kids just based on their immature behavior, but it's also their appearance, plus the fact that the actors are all considerably younger than Billy Gardell.  He's 50, meanwhile his younger brother is played by an actor that's 12 years younger than he is and the actress playing his sister is 9 years younger.  I know those age differences are not unheard of in the real world but in this case both actors seem so out of place next to him it's almost like they were miscast.

I think this might have been intentional though. They mention in one episode that Bob dropped out of college (I think?) to come home and help his mother and younger siblings after his dad died. 

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2 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

I think this might have been intentional though. They mention in one episode that Bob dropped out of college (I think?) to come home and help his mother and younger siblings after his dad died. 

Yes I get that.  I said it was almost like they were miscast because I assumed there was a rationale for him being older.  If their intention was that this was supposed to be funny, IMHO it's not working.

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On 12/20/2019 at 10:38 AM, Yeah No said:

Yes I get that.  I said it was almost like they were miscast because I assumed there was a rationale for him being older.  If their intention was that this was supposed to be funny, IMHO it's not working.

Chuck Lorre isn't afraid to remove and add/expand characters when they don't work (or do, as the case may be). I'm thinking about Christy's kids in Mom or the Bernadette and Amy on Big Bang.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a bit of retooling if we get a 2nd season. I'd like to see more of both workplaces (the 2 Nigerian workers at Bob's and the friends at Abishola's) and less of Bob's family. Abishola's family can stay. And it feels like he has some long-term stuff in place for Abishola's son, which I'm looking forward to.

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