S01.E09: Play the Queen

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

New alliances are formed and old bonds are revealed as TMS is forced to reckon with its past.

[Penman61]

I'm wondering why this show isn't having more of a cultural moment:

• The setting is one journos/critics like to write about because it's flattering to them;
• The topic couldn't be more timely;
• The stars are big, the acting is good, and the writing is strong.

So why isn't it a zeitgeist show? Did it miss the "#MeToo wave"? (That "wave" seems to keep crashing, if anyone cares.)

This episode's Mitch-Hannah scene really highlighted how good this show is: Without relying on a facile rape-culture "It's he said, she said, you guys!" excuse, the scene depicted the messiness of a workplace encounter with a huge power disparity, how Mitch actually believed that he'd been the one who was hurt, and how Hannah felt powerless to stop him. It really shows why these relationships just need to be banned, if not highly, highly scrutinized. But as the previous episode showed, it's an entire culture of abuse and enabling, not just individual actors. 

Can't wait for the showdown next week. I'm rooting for everyone (except Mitch) and for no one.

[Ms Blue Jay]

The show is continuously relevant.  On this season's Survivor, there is a male contestant who is sexually harassing the younger female contestants.  It's disgusting.

I think there is a snobbish, critical bias against any show run by women, especially by the likes of Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon.  I love Jen but I really do think this exists.

It isn't Game of Thrones.  No topless women, dragons, people getting killed by swords.  Or whatever.

I 100% do NOT think Mitch believes he was the one who was hurt.  He's just lying, manipulating, and gaslighting Hannah.  He knows what he did and he knows he's not the victim.

[StarBrand]

Wow. Mitch is seriously deluded about how he's not the bad guy. I give credit to Steve Carroll for making Mitch both likeable and deplorable all at once.

Alex's story to Mitch about waking up in his bed-I'm not quite sure if that is a true recollection, or Alex threatening to smear Mitch a little more with a false story. If it's in fact bullshit, in this story of legitimate claims against Mitch, having Alex, a woman in power, making up a story to shut Mitch up is a little disturbing

Speaking of disturbing, that conversation between Alex and Fred, was hard to sit through, because 100 per cent of what came out of both of their mouths was utter horseshit.  Although to Alex's credit, she didn't seem too happy about having to throw Chip under the bus. But Chip now knows what she's up to.

I like the Maggie character. She sees completely through everybody. Cory remains the most entertaining character on the show-I can never predict how he's going to react any given moment.

I'm really curious about how this interview will go.  I don't know how it goes down without taking both Alex and Fred with it.

Just now, StarBrand said:

Edited December 14, 2019 by StarBrand

[Stiggs]

Man, every scene with Steve Carrell made me physically uncomfortable. Kudos to his acting because he made me want to puke. 
Aniston is killing it. I feel like Witherspoon’s Bradley was a little flat this ep - though the wig is better - but she was out-performed by every other woman on this show this week. And it’s always a joy to watch MGH. I loved her leather power journalist suit, heh. 
The biggest surprise to me is Billy Crudup, who I wasn’t a big fan of before. His character is fascinating because I cannot figure out his endgame. 
I’ve worked in the corporate world for 20 years and all of the complicit and cover-up behavior is so well done it’s gross. Well done, show. 

[nameless slob]

15 hours ago, StarBrand said:

Alex's story to Mitch about waking up in his bed-I'm not quite sure if that is a true recollection, or Alex threatening to smear Mitch a little more with a false story.

I don’t think it is a true recollection. I think Alex made all that up in the spot: being intimidated by him, trying to make amends because he was mad at her in Chile, waking up in a bed not hers and not remembering how she got there… Right after she tells him all that, he says: “that’s pathetic” and she answers “I don’t care”. That sells it. Bullshit.

Alex being intimidated by Mitch? That one doesn’t ring true at all.

I think she just wants to protect her image if he does that interview.

22 hours ago, Penman61 said:

It really shows why these relationships just need to be banned, if not highly, highly scrutinized.

I am curious about Yako and that intern, how it will play out now that it is over. Most relationships always have a power dynamic, but workplace relationships, especially if the people involved aren't on the same hank... The power component I think it will always be the main component. Sometimes, if not always, a silent main component: either for good or a bad experience. Unless there is true care and love involved, but I can’t see that being the cause with those two.

15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 He knows what he did and he knows he's not the victim.

I believe he knows he isn’t the victim, but I think he doesn’t see Hannah as a victim either. And I can see both sides.

I am loving how nuanced this show is.

4 hours ago, Stiggs said:

I feel like Witherspoon’s Bradley was a little flat this ep

I think all the potential they showed us of Bradley in the first episode was never to be seen again. That fire and spike she had, how feist she was in that first episode, I can’t see it anymore.

Edited December 14, 2019 by nameless slob

[txhorns79]

28 minutes ago, nameless slob said:

I believe he knows he isn’t the victim, but I think he doesn’t see Hannah as a victim either. And I can see both sides.

Oh I totally see Mitch knowing he did something wrong, while also believing that Hannah has unclean hands (i.e. in his mind, she leveraged the situation to get a big promotion, which also rewrites the history of what happened).  We saw the flashback to know that Hannah's intent wasn't to get a promotion, but Mitch doesn't know that.  Presumably all he knows is that the incident happened and suddenly the junior booker is now in charge of her department. 

22 hours ago, Penman61 said:

So why isn't it a zeitgeist show? Did it miss the "#MeToo wave"? (That "wave" seems to keep crashing, if anyone cares.)

I presume because even with the big name stars, the quality is uneven and it airs on a brand new streaming channel that most people either don't have and/or cannot access. 

[CarpeFelis]

I was hoping Hannah would tell Mitch what their sexual encounter was like for her, and she finally did, but she missed one important point she should have used. He wasn’t completely wrong about assuming something would happen between them when she went up to his hotel room, BUT... given what we saw last week, yes, she really was that naive.

What she should have said to him was “You’re right, you were the star making 20 million a year and I was just a booker - which clearly meant a HUGE power imbalance between us. You say I could have just stopped you, but did you seriously think the booker would be able to say no to the megastar - and not lose her job?” I mean, seriously, does he really think she could have said no? Is the power imbalance really just invisible to him, or is he trying to rewrite history to justify his behavior?

As for Cory and his motivations... I think it’s a mixture of being power hungry and just plain loving to set chaos in motion and then sit back and watch what happens.

[SueB]

This week was also hard.  I hate what Alex is doing.  I know she’s scared but throwing Chip under the bus is wrong, wrong, wrong.  

Such compelling TV.  Can’t wait for next week.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

But wasn't Chip going to sell out the show by offering to go to Maggie (?) what's her name to tell her all the machinations behind the scenes?

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I don't understand how people are getting that Alex was lying. Her response that she doesn't care when Mitch called her pathetic is not an admission of guilt. We see the same play with Hannah, except she is more reconciliatory with Mitch and is toeing his line even though we saw with our eyes that no, he clearly coerced and abused her. She is going to corroborate with his version of events because he's a bullying asshole and she feels guilty that she placed herself in that situation anyway

I am not going to take from their exchange where he tries to shame Alex - as we see him doing with Hannah in the same episode nonetheless - and Alex having none of his bullying as clue that she's lying about him possibly abusing her too. If I hadn't seen last week's episode and seen his behavior with Hannah, given Hannah demeanor with him for most of their interactions, I'd believe his version of events. Mitch is a predator so Alex recollection is not out of the realm of possibilities. Alex would keep this to herself because she'd wonder if she was complicit or a victim. 

Even when we see the man has done the things he's accused of, he is still given the benefit of the doubt. I have no reason to believe him over Alex. None

Edited December 15, 2019 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[ichbin]

On 12/14/2019 at 12:48 PM, nameless slob said:

I believe he knows he isn’t the victim, but I think he doesn’t see Hannah as a victim either. And I can see both sides.

I am loving how nuanced this show is.

I see Hannah as a victim until she became complicit in agreeing to use what happened to her as a payment of sorts for her career promotion.  

I'm also enjoying how the story is poking into a lot of gray areas and presenting more than a one-sided version of events.

So far it seems most of the main characters are out for themselves and willing to step on whomever is necessary to prevent themselves from losing their present position or the prospect of going further. 

[heavysnaxx]

1 hour ago, ichbin said:

I see Hannah as a victim until she became complicit in agreeing to use what happened to her as a payment of sorts for her career promotion.  

I don't see Hannah as complicit in any way. I see her as coerced. There are actually three options: fight, flight, and freeze. Hannah froze, like many people do when they're under attack or great stress: when Mitch put his hands on her (down her pants, ugh), when she was impulsively face to face with Fred; and when she finally confronted Mitch. Because she froze, she was vulnerable to the mischaracterization that her behavior indicates consent. And both Mitch and Fred exploit Hannah's own uncertainty.

In all three, it seemed very clear to me that she was repulsed but unable to reject Mitch and Fred's advances because they played to her fears that she was, in fact, responsible for what they were doing to her. Or that she was laughably stupid. Because no one is that naive, of course people get promoted when they do great work, and no one is going to believe you anyway. In this case, a young, Black woman who's considerably junior up against two older white men, one of whom is the star employee and the other is the top guy.

What was so horrifying - if predictable - was how Mitch presented his own warped behaviors and values as the norm when Hannah tried to stand up to him, and how easily he shook her confidence. It was painful but it made me respect the show more because it rang true.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

4 hours ago, ichbin said:

I see Hannah as a victim until she became complicit in agreeing to use what happened to her as a payment of sorts for her career promotion.  

I'm also enjoying how the story is poking into a lot of gray areas and presenting more than a one-sided version of events.

So far it seems most of the main characters are out for themselves and willing to step on whomever is necessary to prevent themselves from losing their present position or the prospect of going further. 

Her "complicity" was forced on her.

What choice do you think she had exactly? Without losing her whole career? Because it's not if she could accuse Mitch of what he didn't, top it off with the biggest boss buying her silence and walk away with her career intact. Girls like Hannah claw their way to get to where she is. She should not be forced to pick her dignity over her livelihood 

[txhorns79]

8 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I don't understand how people are getting that Alex was lying. Her response that she doesn't care when Mitch called her pathetic is not an admission of guilt. We see the same play with Hannah, except she is more reconciliatory with Mitch and is toeing his line even though we saw with our eyes that no, he clearly coerced and abused her. She is going to corroborate with his version of events because he's a bullying asshole and she feels guilty that she placed herself in that situation anyway

I think it seems like Alex is lying because her story is only coming out now that she feels her job and reputation may be threatened by Bradley interviewing Mitch.  From the moment Bradley tells her what is going on, she immediately goes into self defense mode by putting into motion Bradley's termination and trying to get Mitch to decline to do any interview.  And honestly, she's weaponizing a rape allegation to keep Mitch from revealing some truths about Alex's complicity.  That raises real questions about Alex's credibility. 

[StarBrand]

Of course, we're assuming Alex is actually aligning heself with Fred, or just making Fred think so. Something tells me things arent' what they seem there.

[Sweet-tea]

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think it seems like Alex is lying because her story is only coming out now that she feels her job and reputation may be threatened by Bradley interviewing Mitch.  From the moment Bradley tells her what is going on, she immediately goes into self defense mode by putting into motion Bradley's termination and trying to get Mitch to decline to do any interview.  And honestly, she's weaponizing a rape allegation to keep Mitch from revealing some truths about Alex's complicity.  That raises real questions about Alex's credibility. 

We're only hearing this version of it now but she did reference hooking up with Mitch in one of the earlier episodes. I believe she said something like "just because you got on top of me once" to indicate it didn't mean anything. 

I think they probably went out, got drunk and went to bed. She knew what she was doing then, but now she is trying to leverage it to get Mitch to shut up. She probably regrets that it happened but I am not getting a definite read that he coerced her as he did Hannah. I think it was a different situation, but she's reminding him that it won't look good for him if she starts talking. 

There was so much plotting in this episode my head was spinning. I'm enjoying the show but having a hard time rooting for anyone. I don't like the young woman who is involved with the weather guy (forgot her name). I don't find her likable or her story interesting, except it's kind of a dog bites man. I think if anyone is being used in this scenario, it's the man. 

I like Alex even though she is deeply flawed. I find her watchable and am enjoying JA's performance. I also find Chip and Cory interesting. The ending scene with Chip and Alex was sad. Reese Witherspoon I could do without. I don't think she adds much to the show at all. 

As some others have mentioned, I too am surprised this show isn't talked about more. I think it's very well done. Could there be backlash because it is making most of those involved look bad? Morning TV is coming across as kind of a dog-eat-dog environment to me. The main players are hypocritical, opportunistic and ruthless. It makes me wonder how the movie Bombshell will be perceived by the press. (Dating myself here but I remember when Broadcast News premiered. Many people in the media were very upset about how they were portrayed.)

One frustrating thing about this episode was the scene between Hannah and Mitch. I was appalled that she let him talk to her at all, that she didn't defend herself of really even hold him accountable for what he did. I guess it was realistic hat she still felt intimidated by him, but I was practically yelling at my tv for her to tell the sleaze ball to pound sand! 

He's a slimy character but Tom Irwin is good in this show. 

I read Brian Stelter's book, which I read was inspiration for this show. It predates the Matt Lauer sex scandal but does take a deep dive into how Ann Curry was treated and then ousted. What they did to her was brutal, so I can believe some of the real players were as manipulative as what we're seeing here. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Sweet-tea

[Higgins]

18 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Her "complicity" was forced on her.

What choice do you think she had exactly? Without losing her whole career? Because it's not if she could accuse Mitch of what he didn't, top it off with the biggest boss buying her silence and walk away with her career intact. Girls like Hannah claw their way to get to where she is. She should not be forced to pick her dignity over her livelihood 

I would walk away no problem. That's on her and him. Mitch is right, she can't play naïve and think that being alone in a hotel room with any male collogue is appropriate. She is either stupid or in denial of her actions just like he.

[Armchair Critic]

So who leaked the info about Mitch to the NY Times? Was it Hannah?

Funny that I actually felt kind of bad for the weather guy at the end. I will always think of that actor from his part on Lost. He looks great for being in his 50's. It looks like he has eyeliner but I think he just has very dark eyelashes.

I'm still rooting for Alex even when she is hard to root for. I did end up feeling bad for Chip that she betrayed him. At first I thought his character was going to be a flat out sleazebag but now I can see how somebody like him became complicit in helping Mitch, he just wanted to get his show out and it was easier to just sweep things under the rug to keep things rolling. 

[funnygirl]

I don't like Bradley, I'm not rooting for Bradley, and if I'm supposed to I don't know what I'm missing.  I laughed when she told Cory they were friends because, while I can't put my finger on Cory's motives, I don't think he cares about any of them. I think he just enjoys the chaos. 

I feel bad for Yanko because his feelings were genuine even if messy because of the workplace dynamics. Ugh, Hannah. I know she was influenced by her own experience with Mitch, but Yanko and Claire were cute and between Hannah and HR, it got into Claire's head. 

I like Chip, and I really like Chip and Alex's friendship, and I hate that now that's strained. 

I guess I thought that the show would highlight camaraderie amongst the female leads in some sort of Me Too, Times Up solidarity. Instead, Alex and Bradley are confiding in their male colleagues/superiors for career preservation. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by funnygirl

[jmonique]

On 12/13/2019 at 1:45 PM, Penman61 said:

I'm wondering why this show isn't having more of a cultural moment:

• The setting is one journos/critics like to write about because it's flattering to them;
• The topic couldn't be more timely;
• The stars are big, the acting is good, and the writing is strong.

So why isn't it a zeitgeist show? Did it miss the "#MeToo wave"? (That "wave" seems to keep crashing, if anyone cares.)

This episode's Mitch-Hannah scene really highlighted how good this show is: Without relying on a facile rape-culture "It's he said, she said, you guys!" excuse, the scene depicted the messiness of a workplace encounter with a huge power disparity, how Mitch actually believed that he'd been the one who was hurt, and how Hannah felt powerless to stop him. It really shows why these relationships just need to be banned, if not highly, highly scrutinized. But as the previous episode showed, it's an entire culture of abuse and enabling, not just individual actors. 

Can't wait for the showdown next week. I'm rooting for everyone (except Mitch) and for no one.

I think it could also be because it's a hard watch. Nobody's likable, and every scene with Mitch makes me feel like I need a chemical shower afterward. 

There have only been a handful of scenes of this team actually being a team. Jennifer and Reese are killing it, but it's just nonstop with everyone stabbing one another in the back. I'm surprised they're able to get any shows done. There's no one to root for.

[PrePreBabylonia]

14 hours ago, jmonique said:

I think it could also be because it's a hard watch. Nobody's likable, and every scene with Mitch makes me feel like I need a chemical shower afterward. 

There have only been a handful of scenes of this team actually being a team. Jennifer and Reese are killing it, but it's just nonstop with everyone stabbing one another in the back. I'm surprised they're able to get any shows done. There's no one to root for.

Yanko. He's the only one to root for, although I feel a bit of sympathy for Chip and am totally fascinated by Cory.

Nestor is an amazing actor. Initially I wasn't a fan, due to watching Ringers, but then I saw him in Bates Motel and the chemistry between him and Vera was off the wall. Just goes to show how bad writing will beat out the most talented actors every time.

[Armchair Critic]

On 12/13/2019 at 2:45 PM, Penman61 said:

I'm wondering why this show isn't having more of a cultural moment

 For me it really picked up after the 8th episode (the flashback Mitch episode) so maybe the critics who only watched the first 3 episodes didn't get into it? Maybe more people aren't watching it because they don't want to pay for another streaming type service? Maybe it's perceived as a "chick show" so men aren't watching? I went into it not expecting much from the reviews and I ended up really enjoying it. I wonder if the morning shows don't like it because it hits too close to home?

[arsenic]

On 12/16/2019 at 12:22 AM, heavysnaxx said:

I don't see Hannah as complicit in any way. I see her as coerced. There are actually three options: fight, flight, and freeze. Hannah froze, like many people do when they're under attack or great stress: when Mitch put his hands on her (down her pants, ugh), when she was impulsively face to face with Fred; and when she finally confronted Mitch. Because she froze, she was vulnerable to the mischaracterization that her behavior indicates consent. And both Mitch and Fred exploit Hannah's own uncertainty.

In all three, it seemed very clear to me that she was repulsed but unable to reject Mitch and Fred's advances because they played to her fears that she was, in fact, responsible for what they were doing to her. Or that she was laughably stupid. Because no one is that naive, of course people get promoted when they do great work, and no one is going to believe you anyway. In this case, a young, Black woman who's considerably junior up against two older white men, one of whom is the star employee and the other is the top guy.

What was so horrifying - if predictable - was how Mitch presented his own warped behaviors and values as the norm when Hannah tried to stand up to him, and how easily he shook her confidence. It was painful but it made me respect the show more because it rang true.

Exactly. Thank you. Shouldn't be surprised that some people say they get to to see "both sides" as if both sides were remotely equal, as if "oh look Mitch is not that bad". No. He's a predator. Just because he seems like a fun, easy-going guy at work (who makes super inappropriate "jokes" at work but whatever) doesn't mean he isn't one. Not all predators look like Harvey Weinstein.

[Superpole2000]

Quote

 

I think it could also be because it's a hard watch. Nobody's likable, and every scene with Mitch makes me feel like I need a chemical shower afterward. 

There have only been a handful of scenes of this team actually being a team. Jennifer and Reese are killing it, but it's just nonstop with everyone stabbing one another in the back. I'm surprised they're able to get any shows done. There's no one to root for.

 

I agree with you. I haven't hated the show, but it hasn't left me eagerly anticipating the next episode...ever. I just wouldn't push anyone I know to watch this show like I might for a show I truly enjoyed.

I think what it's missing is some light to go with the darkness. Even in a heavy show like The Wire, you had comedic lighthearted scenes that gave you a break from the depressing circumstances and made you like some of the characters. This show has one downer scene after another.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/16/2019 at 6:48 PM, Armchair Critic said:

Funny that I actually felt kind of bad for the weather guy at the end. I will always think of that actor from his part on Lost. He looks great for being in his 50's. It looks like he has eyeliner but I think he just has very dark eyelashes.

My brother and I always called him "Guyliner" when he was on LOST.

[chediavolo]

What the hell was that with the British girl and her “boyfriend “? After her talk with her so called friend who ratted her out ( bitch move) she all of a sudden is no longer swooning in love. All  the women in this show are strange, well almost everyone is. All manipulation power and money hungry horrible people.