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S07.E10: Higgledy-Piggledy and a Cat Show

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On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 8:38 AM, Chaos Theory said:

 I remember a vocal minority really hating Tammy when she first became a recurring cast member.  So I am taking a wait and see when it comes to  Patty.  

I didn't hate Tammy when she became a member of the ensemble.  I thought she was getting too much time at first, with her storyline being front and center for several episodes.  Now she's more integrated into the cast, and the way she's being used is terrific.  But the character is played by an actress I've always liked.

Patty, on the other hand, is played by an actress whom I've disliked in every thing in which I seen her.  I think her voice, which, while not Kristen Chenowith levels of "please puncture my ear drums so I can't hear her anymore", is still really annoying, is a large part of her unpleasantness factor for me.

But I did enjoy a lot of this episode, with Tammy and Jill being stand-outs.

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On 12/14/2019 at 3:50 AM, TheLotusFlower said:

I don't see anybody saying that the kids need to actually be shown on the show.  But they can at least be mentioned more than once a year.  Especially Roscoe, considering he's still a minor.  Characters can be referred to without actually being on screen.  It happens all the time.  So I don't really get your "I am not really sure what people expect the show to do about Christy’s kids" comment.  Perhaps just acknowledge their existence like they did in this episode.  It's not a difficult concept for the show to address.

But why do people seem to need that? Why does Roscoe have to be mentioned regularly,  or even at all? He lives with Baxter and Candace, and it's easy enough to assume that he and Christy keep in touch offscreen.

On 12/13/2019 at 5:23 PM, kwnyc said:

In my mind, Christie is spending time with Roscoe and he's staying over, but not on Thursday nights. 😉

Exactly. 🙂

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On 12/13/2019 at 4:23 PM, kwnyc said:

In my mind, Christie is spending time with Roscoe and he's staying over, but not on Thursday nights. 😉

In general, that's how I look at it too but in an episode focused on a character who was upset to not be spending Xmas with her child, and Christy obviously not spending hers with Roscoe either (and seemingly unaffected by it), a mention as to what was going on with that would have made it less disconcerting.

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As soon as they said "Patti", I said "CRAP!!!".  Mr. Diva said "why who's that?"  I said "that scooby doo chick".  he said "F@ck, I hate her"  

Other than that...I love a sitcom Christmas episode.  

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Roscoe doesn't have to be mentioned regularly. I'm fine with semi-regular but the "we know he exists so he doesn't need to be brought up" excuse is crap. No mother would EVER not bring up their child occasionally. We have went SEASONS without Christy saying anything. Which is why a throw-away line would have been appropriate. Chuck Lorre said he wanted to move more towards the group. But he didn't need to erase the existence of Christy's kids to make up for it. I never liked Violet and Christy definitely does not need that negativity in her life. But Roscoe never tore down his mother and she was there for him a bit more than Violet. So hearing her just bring him up once every once in a while would be good. No need to de-Mom Christy because her and Bonnie now have a good relationship.

Of course I do have to put in a conspiracy theory about why they don't mention Roscoe so here goes. They want to make Christy be a deadbeat mom so that they can find more reasons to crap on her and make her life's loser while keeping Bonnie front and center. I swear, it is like Anna Faris HAS pissed off Chuck Lorre in some way. I guess I should be grateful he hasn't dropped a piano on her. I'm half-expecting it. It would be just another episode of MomBonnie.

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But why do people seem to need that? Why does Roscoe have to be mentioned regularly,  or even at all? He lives with Baxter and Candace, and it's easy enough to assume that he and Christy keep in touch offscreen.

Maybe because Roscoe was a regular character for the first couple of seasons and now seems to have vanished. Viewers are always going to have trouble with characters that vanish and are seldom if ever mentioned again. It's a clear sign the writers find the missing character inconvenient and would prefer to pretend they do not exist, and hope the audience will forget they exist. 

And I don't know that Roscoe is better off living full time with Baxter and Candace, either. One of the last times we saw him it was revealed that Baxter was still smoking pot and that Roscoe had gotten into it and got stoned. Candace seems like the kind of control freak who took someone like Baxter in because she saw him as a project. I honestly don't know if that home is healthier for Roscoe than Christy's. 

I also don't know a lot of moms that never mention their kids. The way they sort of stuck a fork in Violet didn't feel genuine to me because while she blamed her mother for everything bad in her life she seemed to forgive and even worship Bonnie who is arguably worse. 

So, lazy writing. If you're willing to hand-wave it away that's fine. Not everyone will be.

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2 hours ago, Amazee-Dayzee said:

Of course I do have to put in a conspiracy theory about why they don't mention Roscoe so here goes. They want to make Christy be a deadbeat mom so that they can find more reasons to crap on her and make her life's loser while keeping Bonnie front and center. I swear, it is like Anna Faris HAS pissed off Chuck Lorre in some way. I guess I should be grateful he hasn't dropped a piano on her. I'm half-expecting it. It would be just another episode of MomBonnie.

I heard a rumor that a few years ago, Anna Faris' life was problematic with an upcoming divorce and her child's health problems. I believe the rest of the cast stepped up to relieve the pressure and stabilize the show. Bonnie being such a great actress kind of stole the spotlight and the rest of the cast took on a larger role. I am sure if Christy wants more screen time they would be willing to let her.

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I heard a rumor that a few years ago, Anna Faris' life was problematic with an upcoming divorce and her child's health problems. 

I hadn't heard about this and did a quick search; apparently her son was born prematurely and suffered a brain bleed. He has vision issues and some muscular weakness. So that would mean he does need extra care/attention. Whether this plays into the building up of the other roles on the show is unknown, but I'd better take this to a different thread...

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14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So, lazy writing. If you're willing to hand-wave it away that's fine. Not everyone will be.

It just doesn't seem like something worth getting all worked up about. It's not "hand-waving", I mean, it's not like I can change it, so I'm not going to get myself in a dither. And I wouldn't change it because I don't miss the kids at all, and if they were never mentioned again I'd be fine with it.

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14 hours ago, Amazee-Dayzee said:

We have went SEASONS without Christy saying anything. Which is why a throw-away line would have been appropriate. Chuck Lorre said he wanted to move more towards the group. But he didn't need to erase the existence of Christy's kids to make up for it. I never liked Violet and Christy definitely does not need that negativity in her life. But Roscoe never tore down his mother and she was there for him a bit more than Violet. So hearing her just bring him up once every once in a while would be good. No need to de-Mom Christy because her and Bonnie now have a good relationship.

I don't think they have ever gone even one full season without mentioning Roscoe.

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On 12/13/2019 at 12:57 AM, Amazee-Dayzee said:

Hey Christy! Just because your son chose to live with your ex doesn't mean you don't keep in contact with him. This is either another way to do a hatchet job on Christy and make Bonnie look better (not too hard at this point) or Roscoe doesn't want anything to do with Christy like Violet.

 

On 12/13/2019 at 3:11 AM, TheLotusFlower said:

Wow, Christy actually acknowledged the existence of her two kids.  It's a Christmas miracle!  So she doesn't even see Roscoe on the holidays?  What a strange situation.  Just because he lives with his dad that doesn't mean she can never see him again.  I wasn't aware that he hated her like Violet does.  I really liked seeing Bonnie actually acknowledge what a horrible person she used to be and realizing the kind of pain she caused.  I used to hate when Christy would try to tell Bonnie how painful her childhood was, and Bonnie would basically act like it was no big deal because it was in the past.  I know people who really do that, and some of them never fully acknowledge the damage they caused their loved ones.  Most importantly, I absolutely adore Tammy!  She's quickly becoming my favorite character on the show.

 

On 12/13/2019 at 8:38 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I am not really sure what people expect the show to do about Christy’s kids.   I know for a fact the actress who plays Violet is busy with other things.  FYI she was really good on Why Women Kill.     The they could probably recast Roscoe as he is young enough and other shows have done it.     But honestly the show’s focus has changes from Christy trying to be a good mother with the ladies as recurring characters to a story  about Alcholics and drug addicts trying to move on even when life hands them a bunch of lemons. I don’t think the show is Bonnie’s show.   I just think the show moved on years  ago from Christy’s show to a group ensemble.   

Of course every so often the show will throw in a new addict.  Whether they stay or go probably comes down to fan appeal and actress availability.    I remember a vocal minority really hating Tammy when she first became a recurring cast member.  So I am taking a wait and see when it comes to  Patty.   Who actually may just be a short term “do as I say not as I did” stand in for Christy as  a young mother trying to get back her kid.    You know “this is what I did.   Maybe you should try the other thing” approach to helping.

 

On 12/13/2019 at 8:55 AM, kariyaki said:

The thing is that they seem to be holding Bonnie/Christie up to Patty to show that you can make disastrous mistakes as a mother to your young child and it might not ruin the relationship. 
 

Except that Christie/her kids is the elephant in the room because it also might totally ruin it. Now Christie didn’t seem upset about Roscoe so maybe she did talk to him/see him in Offscreenville but in an episode where a character was so distraught about not seeing her kid on Xmas, Christie being seemingly unemotional about hers not being around was kind of odd. 

 

On 12/13/2019 at 11:28 AM, Harvey said:

I am not one to complain about the lack of kids, because the show was awesome when they were included but it is also awesome now. However, the ones who keep bringing it up do have the right to do it. The show is literally called MOM!!! As for what could the show runners do? So many things. A really easy thing is to just have 1-2 episodes per season that include Roscoe (that really is not a lot anyone who wants to do it, can). Or just mention him sometimes. Like "oh you can use the downstairs bedroom, Roscoe is spending the week with his dad". Something like that. So easy, so simple, and it takes care of the whole thing.

As for Violet her storyline was beautifully wrapped up in the last episode she appeared in so I think she is taken care of.

 

On 12/13/2019 at 2:11 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I don't have any strong feelings either way about Kate Micucci, but it doesn't feel unreasonable to me that in a show that's about alcoholics and the group dynamics of trying to support each other than we're occasionally going to see different faces pop up.  The story that she came to spend Christmas with her sponsor because she's been such a train wreck in the past with her own family that they don't want her around rings true enough.  I did like her line asking what was the point of having 85 days if that didn't let her off the hook as occasionally it feels like Bonnie especially wants to use oh I'm a better person now as her own get out of jail free card for what she was and the damage she did to Christy.  It's interesting to see her finally taking some of those terrible awful no good very bad stories seriously just as Christy's reached the point where they don't have any power over her anymore and now she's the one who thinks they're just funny stories, where in the early seasons Bonnie seemed to shrug a lot of them off for a punchline.

I'm generally neither here nor there about the lack of Christy's kids as the show is less about that aspect now than it was in the early seasons, although it did feel like in an episode specifically focusing on what bad mothers some of them have been and that's why they are where they are now that Christy needed at least another line or two explaining why she didn't seem to be seeing Roscoe for Christmas at all or if that even matters to her.  Maybe he's like Violet and now that he's had some time out of the vortex of insanity, he wants to stay out of it.  But then tell us that.  Tell us something.  Bonnie's not the only mother in that group that's messed up badly with her own kids and should be feeling some things about it.  When was the last time Marjorie even mentioned her own son?  

The caroling stuff and the pajamas sight gag at the end were a hoot.  Jill was giving off some seriously unpleasant dysfunctional girlfriend vibes in a reminder of what a mess she was.   The writing and execution of it were great, but still.  Loved "Oh God, we're going to be on Dateline."

 

20 hours ago, Amazee-Dayzee said:

Roscoe doesn't have to be mentioned regularly. I'm fine with semi-regular but the "we know he exists so he doesn't need to be brought up" excuse is crap. No mother would EVER not bring up their child occasionally. We have went SEASONS without Christy saying anything. Which is why a throw-away line would have been appropriate. Chuck Lorre said he wanted to move more towards the group. But he didn't need to erase the existence of Christy's kids to make up for it. I never liked Violet and Christy definitely does not need that negativity in her life. But Roscoe never tore down his mother and she was there for him a bit more than Violet. So hearing her just bring him up once every once in a while would be good. No need to de-Mom Christy because her and Bonnie now have a good relationship.

Of course I do have to put in a conspiracy theory about why they don't mention Roscoe so here goes. They want to make Christy be a deadbeat mom so that they can find more reasons to crap on her and make her life's loser while keeping Bonnie front and center. I swear, it is like Anna Faris HAS pissed off Chuck Lorre in some way. I guess I should be grateful he hasn't dropped a piano on her. I'm half-expecting it. It would be just another episode of MomBonnie.

 

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Maybe because Roscoe was a regular character for the first couple of seasons and now seems to have vanished. Viewers are always going to have trouble with characters that vanish and are seldom if ever mentioned again. It's a clear sign the writers find the missing character inconvenient and would prefer to pretend they do not exist, and hope the audience will forget they exist. 

And I don't know that Roscoe is better off living full time with Baxter and Candace, either. One of the last times we saw him it was revealed that Baxter was still smoking pot and that Roscoe had gotten into it and got stoned. Candace seems like the kind of control freak who took someone like Baxter in because she saw him as a project. I honestly don't know if that home is healthier for Roscoe than Christy's. 

I also don't know a lot of moms that never mention their kids. The way they sort of stuck a fork in Violet didn't feel genuine to me because while she blamed her mother for everything bad in her life she seemed to forgive and even worship Bonnie who is arguably worse. 

So, lazy writing. If you're willing to hand-wave it away that's fine. Not everyone will be.

I really understand everyone's point of view on Roscoe. The truth is that she show made a whoops with that character. Violet is old enough that as an adult her being out of Christie's life is not jarring. The actor they cast as Roscoe just was not engaging and was almost a prop. Heck, the dog way more popular than Roscoe ever was

The show simply just wants to pretend that Roscoe does not exist. The problem is we missed the struggle of Christy's path to recovery would have been if she was dealing with raising a teenage boy.

I am sure a lot of single mothers would love to tuck their kid away somewhere why they work on themselves but it is a luxury most people do not have.

I like the way that being bad mothers has affected some of the group.

I knew someone who grew up with an alcoholic mother and father. To say his life was Hell would be an understatement. His parents cleaned up and asked for forgiveness. He forgave them but never wants any type of relationship with either of them. Their alcoholism lead to him being sexually abused for years by an adult male who took advantage of the situation. They will always be a reminder of his horrible toxic childhood and he simply can't move on with them in his life.

We are seeing a good side of addicts regaining their lives but my friends story is not uncommon for the children of addicts, who are self absorbed and will destroy everything around them for a '"fix".

 

 

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31 minutes ago, qtpye said:

The show simply just wants to pretend that Roscoe does not exist. The problem is we missed the struggle of Christy's path to recovery would have been if she was dealing with raising a teenage boy.

I am sure a lot of single mothers would love to tuck their kid away somewhere why they work on themselves but it is a luxury most people do not have.

I like the way that being bad mothers has affected some of the group.

I knew someone who grew up with an alcoholic mother and father. To say his life was Hell would be an understatement. His parents cleaned up and asked for forgiveness. He forgave them but never wants any type of relationship with either of them. Their alcoholism lead to him being sexually abused for years by an adult male who took advantage of the situation. They will always be a reminder of his horrible toxic childhood and he simply can't move on with them in his life.

We are seeing a good side of addicts regaining their lives but my friends story is not uncommon for the children of addicts, who are self absorbed and will destroy everything around them for a '"fix".

All good points.  I have no issue with Violet, either with her absence from the story now or her character.  Christy didn't quit drinking until Violet was already most of the way through high school and her entire childhood had been defined by cleaning up after her and being a surrogate parent to her little brother.  That she tried off and on to have an adult relationship with a now sober Christy and decided. apparently offscreen, that she couldn't doesn't bother me either.  Every adult child of alcoholics I've ever known had serious issues of anger and disappointment to work through that often took years.  Some eventually came around and some didn't.  When the show first started, Christy was 34 and hadn't had much contact with Bonnie in a very long time.  Violet may eventually get there with Christy or she may not.  It's also not surprising to me that Violet doesn't harbor the same anger at Bonnie, because again, everything we've been told suggests that Bonnie wasn't around and wasn't sober either until not long before the show began.  Any feeling of ill will toward Bonnie is going to be much more abstract at best because while, yes, intellectually she probably realized Bonnie made Christy who she is in the same way Christy shaped her, she doesn't have those memories of all the horrible stories starring Bonnie.

For as put upon as Christy likes to paint herself, and I'm in no way suggesting that having a kid reject you for a former screwup like Baxter wouldn't be hard emotionally, you're also right that Christy's path to recovery and personal growth has been a whole lot easier than it would have been had she also been continuing to struggle daily with raising a teenage boy who might also be perpetually angry and disappointed with her.  Again, I don't care that he isn't on the show.  It just feels like so much of all of this questioning about it could be avoided by an occasional line here or there about what Christy's relationship with him is, particularly now that Adam has moved in with them and the downstairs bedroom is permanently occupied.

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2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

All good points.  I have no issue with Violet, either with her absence from the story now or her character.  Christy didn't quit drinking until Violet was already most of the way through high school and her entire childhood had been defined by cleaning up after her and being a surrogate parent to her little brother.  That she tried off and on to have an adult relationship with a now sober Christy and decided. apparently offscreen, that she couldn't doesn't bother me either.  Every adult child of alcoholics I've ever known had serious issues of anger and disappointment to work through that often took years.  Some eventually came around and some didn't.  When the show first started, Christy was 34 and hadn't had much contact with Bonnie in a very long time.  Violet may eventually get there with Christy or she may not.  It's also not surprising to me that Violet doesn't harbor the same anger at Bonnie, because again, everything we've been told suggests that Bonnie wasn't around and wasn't sober either until not long before the show began.  Any feeling of ill will toward Bonnie is going to be much more abstract at best because while, yes, intellectually she probably realized Bonnie made Christy who she is in the same way Christy shaped her, she doesn't have those memories of all the horrible stories starring Bonnie.

For as put upon as Christy likes to paint herself, and I'm in no way suggesting that having a kid reject you for a former screwup like Baxter wouldn't be hard emotionally, you're also right that Christy's path to recovery and personal growth has been a whole lot easier than it would have been had she also been continuing to struggle daily with raising a teenage boy who might also be perpetually angry and disappointed with her.  Again, I don't care that he isn't on the show.  It just feels like so much of all of this questioning about it could be avoided by an occasional line here or there about what Christy's relationship with him is, particularly now that Adam has moved in with them and the downstairs bedroom is permanently occupied.

I do see your (and others') points with regard to Roscoe. It wouldn't hurt for Christy to mention him a bit more. It also wouldn't hurt to have maybe one episode a season where we see them spending some time together. But it doesn't really bother me that they haven't done so.

I agree with your assessment of the Violet situation too. She was just such a resting bitch-face bitch that I was very happy when they dropped her from the show. But yes, her feelings really are absolutely understandable. 

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Sure enough, it's from Target, on sale this week for $17.49 - 

Jill shops at Tar-jhay? I thought she never heard of it! 😉

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On 12/11/2019 at 2:19 PM, proserpina65 said:

Oh god, not more Kate Micucci!  I was hoping we wouldn't see her character again.  I really don't care for her as an actress.

i could not agree more, she is such a sad sack.

 

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