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BetterButter

No Time To Die (2021)

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1 hour ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Was it really only a year ago that the first trailer came out and all the excitement started?

Yeah, but that year was 2020, which passed like a dog year.

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The soundtrack listing:

Gun Barrel

Matera

Message From An Old Friend

Square Escape

Someone Was Here

Not What I Expected

What Have You Done?

Shouldn't We Get To Know Each Other First

Cuba Chase

Back To MI6

Good To Have You Back

Lovely To See You Again

Home

Norway Chase

Gearing Up

Poison Garden

The Factory

I'll Be Right Back

Opening The Doors

Final Ascent

No Time To Die (Billie Eilish)

I think this is the first soundtrack to a Craig film that doesn't include the name of the Bond Girl.

Edited by Dr.OO7
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It's been postponed yet AGAIN to October 8, 2021.

AARGH.

(Though much like the last time, I suspected this would happen)

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I can't believe it was only a year ago that the showtimes were coming out and I was getting so excited, planning my Easter weekend around seeing it. . . and then being absolutely crushed when they announced the postponement.

Oddly enough, it was the first moment that I realized how dire the situation was getting.

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This is a very intriguing behind the scenes clip:

Spoilers have indicated that the opening sequence is Safin trying to kill Madeline as a child, so this is apparently that scene.

Edited by Dr.OO7
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The newest mini-trailer. Let's hope the October release date sticks.

 

Edited by Dr.OO7
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4 hours ago, BetterButter said:

 

And the final international one:

 

This looks AWESOME. 

But I wonder why they're so different?

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On 8/31/2021 at 11:23 AM, BetterButter said:

 

On 8/31/2021 at 4:17 PM, Dr.OO7 said:

And the final international one:

 

This looks AWESOME. 

But I wonder why they're so different?

Watched both, they look great, but I find both of them to be confusing.  The international trailer is a bit better, but both left me wondering if I am going to understand the plot.  I don't fully understand what is going on here... instead of straightforward plot of Bond trying to stop megalomaniac, there's all this cryptic stuff going on, what is it all about?

Am I supposed to recognise the white haired guy in the glass box in the beginning?  Who's that?  Am I supposed to recognise this white mask as belonging to a villain we have seen before?  Is that Rami Malek's mask?  I'm pretty sure he's a new character?  Am I supposed to remember who Madeline Swann is?  Face and name seem a bit familiar but I can't recall anything else about her.

I did not like how the U.S. trailer said to "prepare for the epic conclusion"... obviously that means the conclusion of Daniel Craig's run, but they make it seem like Bond is dying.

 

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10 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

 

Did you not see  Spectre?

I did, but it was 6 years ago, and I clearly haven't retained any of it hahaha.  I'll make sure I go and re-watch prior to seeing NTTD.

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As I wrote 19 months ago. . .

THE SHOWTIMES ARE OUT!

(Though the tickets themselves are still unavailable)

I really hope I'm not rewriting any more posts from last year.

ETA that the tickets are now available and that I just bought mine! 

Edited by Dr.OO7
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In prep for this my family has now watched the entirety on the Bond movies and we're watching the Everything Wrong With videos to fill the time. Interested to watch this one and see where the franchise goes next

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On 9/29/2021 at 8:31 AM, Dr.OO7 said:

I'm going to avoid anything else that could tip me off, because I want to be surprised (8 more days! SQUEE!).

I saw it this evening, and I feel like I did the right thing by staying away from all spoilers (not counting the trailers), so you won’t get any from me.

Is it good?  I like every Bond movie immediately after seeing it, so my opinion won’t be valid for another week.  I will say that it takes chances, and no one phoned it in.

Edited by revbfc
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You know the trope "So Bad, It's Good"?

I think we need one called "So Good, It's Bad".

This is an excellent film. . . and I hate it.

I am GUTTED.

Spoiler

As much as it would have sucked for yet another genuine love of Bond's to be killed off, I would have rather that happen and have Bond walking off into the sunset to be a father to the daughter he never knew existed than killing HIM. That final scene would have been an even better Bookend to the opening if it had been Bond and Mathilde driving along just like Bond and Madeleine in the beginning.

 

Edited by Dr.OO7
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Overall, I really liked this, probably the second-best film of the Craig era. The main villain's ultimate plot is definitely a bit hazy in terms of motive and goals (ironically, as some have noted, this is the rare case where a Bond villain doesn't try to provide a detailed explanation for what he intends to do), but the emotional stakes of the movie absolutely land for me, and that goes a very long way toward selling it.

This reminds me in a lot of ways of The Dark Knight Rises:

Spoiler

Insofar as deciding to conclude by giving that iteration of the lead character a proper and definitive ending. Craig Bond was the first time the series had attempted real character arcs, etc., and while the execution of those was spotty from film to film (especially due to the lack of an equivalent to Christopher Nolan, to extend the comparison), No Time to Die does a pretty solid job of trying to tie it all together (much moreso than Spectre's goofy attempts at retrofitting continuity).

Weirdly, after the initial detail was dropped about the nanobots always staying with you, and then the daughter was introduced, I kind of thought I had figured out the ending, and that it was going to be "Bond can never be with his family and must nobly live a separate existence"; but no, they surprised me, they actually killed him.

 

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17 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

You know the trope "So Bad, It's Good"?

I think we need one called "So Good, It's Bad".

This is an excellent film. . . and I hate it.

I am GUTTED.

  Reveal spoiler

As much as it would have sucked for yet another genuine love of Bond's to be killed off, I would have rather that happen and have Bond walking off into the sunset to be a father to the daughter he never knew existed than killing HIM. That final scene would have been an even better Bookend to the opening if it had been Bond and Mathilde driving along just like Bond and Madeleine in the beginning.

 

I know exactly what you mean.  Bond films aren’t supposed to make us feel those things, yet here we are.

 

Let’s accept, and process, those feelings together.

Edited by revbfc
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8 hours ago, revbfc said:

know exactly what you mean.  Bond films aren’t supposed to make us feel those things, yet here we are.

 

Let’s accept, and process those feelings together.

I'm trying, but this is hard. This is the first Bond movie in a long time that I don't plan--or want to see again.

I will commend the producers for one thing. Throughout the entire Craig era, they've had the guts to go places the series hasn't gone before. I just wish they hadn't gone this far.

Spoiler

It's grossly unfair that Bond and his daughter get all of five minutes to know each other before she loses him again for good.

I. . .hate this. I have no idea how they'll keep the series going after this, and if they don't, this is NOT the way it should have ended. Bond should end with with either And The Adventure Continues (we just won't get to see it), or with him definitely quitting to be with the woman he loves.

I know I keep harping on this and I probably will, but as I wrote before, I think this was a huge error. It would have made much more sense to kill Madeleine and have Bond leave to be a full time father to Mathilde, especially to make amends for missing the first few years of her life due to him wrongly mistrusting her mother. I keep thinking of how poignant and adorable that final scene would have been with Bond driving off with his daughter and introducing himself to her in classic Bond style.

Or even rip off "The Dark Knight Rises"--have everyone except a select few THINK he's dead while we see the three of them blissfully embarking on a life together.

 

Edited by Dr.OO7
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4 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I'm trying, but this is hard. This is the first Bond movie in a long time that I don't plan--or want to see again.

I will commend the producers for one thing. Throughout the entire Craig era, they've had the guts to go places the series hasn't gone before. I just wish they hadn't gone this far.

  Reveal spoiler

It's grossly unfair that Bond and his daughter get all of five minutes to know each other before she loses him again for good.

I. . .hate this. I have no idea how they'll keep the series going after this, and if they don't, this is NOT the way it should have ended. Bond should end with with either And The Adventure Continues (we just won't get to see it), or with him definitely quitting to be with the woman he loves.

I know I keep harping on this and I probably will, but as I wrote before, I think this was a huge error. It would have made much more sense to kill Madeleine and have Bond leave to be a full time father to Mathilde, especially to make amends for missing the first few years of her life due to him wrongly mistrusting her mother. I keep thinking of how poignant and adorable that final scene would have been with Bond driving off with his daughter and introducing himself to her in classic Bond style.

Or even rip off "The Dark Knight Rises"--have everyone except a select few THINK he's dead while we see the three of them blissfully embarking on a life together.

 

Just think of it as Batman now.  Every decade or so we’ll get a new take on the character that will resonate with the times.

James Bond is dead!  LONG LIVE JAMES BOND!!!

Or, to put it another way:

James Bond WILL RETURN!

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Spoiler

Another reason that this Downer Ending sucks is that it ultimately makes the whole movie very "meh" and anti-climatic despite many excellent scenes. I've been waiting almost 2 years (if you count all the hype before the postponement was announced) for THIS? 

 

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Saw No Time to Die today. Loved it. Worthy ending for a 007. 

Spoiler

I wanted him to live since he had a little girl. Iwanted this Bond to live happily ever after. 

I do wander if we'll see this daughter in mi6 in the future

 

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So Safin, most successful Bond villain ever? Killed SPECTRE and Bond. (And Felix Leiter, by proxy.)

Sure he died unceremoniously with the classic look-away three shots to the chest, but he got a lot of shit done.

It's definitely set for a reboot now. Q and Moneypenny can come back, but M's obviously going to be sacked.

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13 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Sure he died unceremoniously with the classic look-away three shots to the chest, but he got a lot of shit done.

You've got to hand it to him. Mortally wounded, yet he still finds the strength to climb out of the silo room so that he can get good enough reception to call Madeleine.

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I don’t dislike it but I wanted to like it more. Just felt like they took too long to get to safin and then they don’t really do anything. Credit to Rami Malek who does the most with what he had but it felt like the potential there never gets achieved. 

Feels like there were a lot of things they wanted to hit but none of it really hits hard. It’s all just meh and then the end, while emotional, and Daniel Craig is great…but the tragedy of being poisoned against Madeline and Matilde is kind of irrelevant cause he’s going to die anyway. He couldn’t have gotten off that island anyway. So what’s the point of that? 

I will commend them for going through with it. I liked the action and the storytelling and the interactions between everybody. There’s a lot to like, I just wish it felt monumental being the last one with Daniel Craig.

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On 9/2/2021 at 2:47 PM, blackwing said:

I did, but it was 6 years ago, and I clearly haven't retained any of it hahaha.  I'll make sure I go and re-watch prior to seeing NTTD.

I'll make a confession. From the previous Daniel Craig James Bond films, the only two women I've retained a memory of are Judi Dench's M and Eve Moneypenny.  The rest all blend together. 

I'll exit, stage left.  

Edited by MissAlmond
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Rewatching The Dark Knight Rises makes me all the more annoyed that TPTB didn't take that approach. After decades of Bond's womanizing, it would have been just as revolutionary if not downright adorable to see him go off to be a full time husband and father.

Edited by Dr.OO7

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On 10/12/2021 at 11:25 AM, Dr.OO7 said:

Rewatching The Dark Knight Rises makes me all the more annoyed that TPTB didn't take that approach. After decades of Bond's womanizing, it would have been just as revolutionary if not downright adorable to see him go off to be a full time husband and father.

I’m fine with it, because Bond isn’t allowed normal happiness.  He either chooses to have a family and it gets ripped from him horribly, or he chooses to let his love ones live if he sacrifices himself.

Bond’s only other option is to live a solitary life of short-term flings (which is what we usually see).

 

As it is, Bond DID get a happy ending, because he completed the mission, and the people he loved got to live.

Edited by revbfc
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Saw this last night, and some thoughts. I'll put these in spoiler tags just in case:

Spoiler
  • I thought the cigar would come into play (surprise, it's an antidote!) - turns out it was literally just a cigar
  • I though Matilde's mosquito bite was leading to something - turns out it was literally just a mosquito bite
  • Safin and Madeline appear to be the same age, although he is supposed to be at least several years older than her given what we learn at the start
  • The "bio weapon that infects and kills people" felt a biiiiiit too soon, given the state of the world. I honestly did cringe a couple of times. Not because of the movie, just the thought of what we've all been going through for the past 2 years.
  • I fan-winked this as "Q made it that way", but my friend noted that Bond's watch that neutralized electronics should have then neutralized his ear pierce

Overall, it was a good way to end this era. 

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I finally saw Bond. I had to see it in the theatre and needed to wait until it was nearly empty and I had a telework day. So today was the day.

Holy crap was that amazing. Seriously. 

Spoiler

How do they move on with a different Bond? I mean, Bond died. Like, tons of bombs falling around him. Lots of explosions and fire died. He wasn't doing anything to hide or find a safe spot where he could emerge from and pretend to be dead, he was standing on the roof watching the bombs come in. 

So are they going to start following one Bond over the course of his career and it is simply a different interpretation of Bond? 

So good.

 

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On 10/9/2021 at 9:54 AM, Dr.OO7 said:

You've got to hand it to him. Mortally wounded, yet he still finds the strength to climb out of the silo room so that he can get good enough reception to call Madeleine.

He had to open the shutters that had been closed so that the bombs would destroy the weapon. He had perfectly good reception to talk to Q and Madeleine in the bunker area. I think the climb of the tower demonstrated that he had the strength to leave the area if he had enough time and/or the motivation. Knowing that he could not be with Madeleine or his daughter or his grand kids, he choose to stay at the bunker and die. I believe that he might have been able to avoid death if he had gotten down to the water area and started swimming away because he would have avoided the blast damage.

On 10/10/2021 at 9:53 PM, moonorchid said:

I don’t dislike it but I wanted to like it more. Just felt like they took too long to get to safin and then they don’t really do anything. Credit to Rami Malek who does the most with what he had but it felt like the potential there never gets achieved. 

Feels like there were a lot of things they wanted to hit but none of it really hits hard. It’s all just meh and then the end, while emotional, and Daniel Craig is great…but the tragedy of being poisoned against Madeline and Matilde is kind of irrelevant cause he’s going to die anyway. He couldn’t have gotten off that island anyway. So what’s the point of that? 

I will commend them for going through with it. I liked the action and the storytelling and the interactions between everybody. There’s a lot to like, I just wish it felt monumental being the last one with Daniel Craig.

I don't really get Safin's plot line. His family was killed for a reason, the implication is that his fathers research was too damaging and his father wasn't trusted. Safin's family was killed to stop the research and prevent whatever nastiness his Father had been developing from being used. Safin continued his Father's research and then married it with the weapon developed my MI6 in order to target populations that Safin wanted to kill off. Or, the threat of releasing the agent would be enough to force all Governments and populations to obey Safin's commands.

It took forever to actually get to that point and it wasn't clearly stated like so many of Bond's villains do. What was never really made clear was why Safin was so focused on Madeleine. Safin choose not to kill her but left her in Norway. Safin seemed to follow Madeleine closely enough to be able to use her against Bloefeld, and complete his revenge for killing his family. But then why focus on Madeline and her child? I suspect it was because he wanted a family of his own but why them? He could essentially pick his own wife, threatening to wipe out the persons family with the bioweapon if they didn't comply. So was it the last bit of his revenge? Taking over the roll of parent from James and Madeleine and denying his adversaries the chance to have their family as White had denied Safin his family?

Overall, I found it impactful and a traditional Bond film (action, travel, dry humor, Bond being a rebel while not being a rebel) with themes and plots that are not traditionally found in the movies but have been touched on in different ways in the books.

I am curious as to where they go from here. are they going to restart the franchise again? Fine, I can get behind that, the change global system pretty much calls for that type of a change. But it almost feels like they need to throw away some of the more complex elements of Bond as a person that I really enjoy.

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I think the first Daniel Craig one - Casino Royale - was in some way a rebooting of James Bond.  It was based on the first Fleming novel, and in the movie Bond has just been promoted to 00 status.  They kept the same M from the Pierce Brosnan movies (Judi Dench).  The 5 Craig movies have been a long story arc.

Now that Craig is gone, they bring in a new actor and reboot again.  The question is: do they keep the same M and Q and Moneypenny.  I hope they do.
 

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I think the biggest problem with No Time to Die was that they made it too complicated.  They probably should have forgotten about Spectre and Blofeld and just worked on making Safin into an evil genius villain.  Safin had the makings of a classic Bond villain - his own island, a plot to kill millions of people worldwide.  But we needed more of him and his motivation and examples of his evil.

Since the beginning of the franchise, James Bond was just always good at everything.  The many skills needed to be an effective spy and pretty much everything else, which is why viewers wanted to be him.

They were primarily action movies with no serious psychological character development.  Bond was always loyal to his country, but other than that he was a superficial playboy given to gambling, women, fast cars, and exotic locations.

In the Craig era they developed a few characters more.  They went into Bond's backstory in Skyfall and Spectre and had him fall in love twice.  Vesper Lynd in Casino Royale was more complex than most Bond girls, and, to my surprise, they really made Madeleine Swann into a three-dimensional woman with depth.

So I think the five Craig movies differed from the older Bond movies in being dramas in addition to action films.  Who knows what they will do with the next Bond.
 

Edited by Roaster · Reason: typo
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23 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

He had to open the shutters that had been closed so that the bombs would destroy the weapon. He had perfectly good reception to talk to Q and Madeleine in the bunker area. I think the climb of the tower demonstrated that he had the strength to leave the area if he had enough time and/or the motivation. Knowing that he could not be with Madeleine or his daughter or his grand kids, he choose to stay at the bunker and die. I believe that he might have been able to avoid death if he had gotten down to the water area and started swimming away because he would have avoided the blast damage.

23 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

 

 

But he'd been given the nanobots that would kill Madeline and Mathilde if he ever touched them again. Plus, I think he wanted to look in the direction of the island that she and Mathilde had been taken to so that he could figuratively look at them one last time.

23 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

don't really get Safin's plot line

Neither do I. This isn't a bad movie, but it has its flaws and the fact that I hate the ending makes it hard for me to overlook them--the middle third drags, Bond and Madeleine's reunion and the revelation that she (and they) has a daughter is anti-climatic, and as written, Safin's plans and motives are vague.

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Heracles was nanites, right?  (Or nanobots or whatever they referred to them as…) So seems like his watch could have just disabled them?

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On 10/28/2021 at 9:29 AM, ProfCrash said:

He had to open the shutters that had been closed so that the bombs would destroy the weapon. He had perfectly good reception to talk to Q and Madeleine in the bunker area. I think the climb of the tower demonstrated that he had the strength to leave the area if he had enough time and/or the motivation. Knowing that he could not be with Madeleine or his daughter or his grand kids, he choose to stay at the bunker and die. I believe that he might have been able to avoid death if he had gotten down to the water area and started swimming away because he would have avoided the blast damage.

I don't really get Safin's plot line. His family was killed for a reason, the implication is that his fathers research was too damaging and his father wasn't trusted. Safin's family was killed to stop the research and prevent whatever nastiness his Father had been developing from being used. Safin continued his Father's research and then married it with the weapon developed my MI6 in order to target populations that Safin wanted to kill off. Or, the threat of releasing the agent would be enough to force all Governments and populations to obey Safin's commands.

It took forever to actually get to that point and it wasn't clearly stated like so many of Bond's villains do. What was never really made clear was why Safin was so focused on Madeleine. Safin choose not to kill her but left her in Norway. Safin seemed to follow Madeleine closely enough to be able to use her against Bloefeld, and complete his revenge for killing his family. But then why focus on Madeline and her child? I suspect it was because he wanted a family of his own but why them? He could essentially pick his own wife, threatening to wipe out the persons family with the bioweapon if they didn't comply. So was it the last bit of his revenge? Taking over the roll of parent from James and Madeleine and denying his adversaries the chance to have their family as White had denied Safin his family?

Overall, I found it impactful and a traditional Bond film (action, travel, dry humor, Bond being a rebel while not being a rebel) with themes and plots that are not traditionally found in the movies but have been touched on in different ways in the books.

I am curious as to where they go from here. are they going to restart the franchise again? Fine, I can get behind that, the change global system pretty much calls for that type of a change. But it almost feels like they need to throw away some of the more complex elements of Bond as a person that I really enjoy.

We saw this earlier today. I too was confused by Safin’s ultimate motive.  Though his father was likely just as dangerous and nuts as he, I understood why Safrin wanted to destroy SPECTRE for killing his family. I didn’t understand why he spared Madeline, then proceeded to watch her over the years. Like you said, perhaps he wanted to make a family with her? He did say a person has a special connection to those whom they kill and/or saves, and that person belongs to them. So in his twisted mind I think he believed that Madeline and subsequently her child belonged to him, since he saved the former. Don’t understand though why he’d give up so easily on having her and Mathidle if his goal was to force them to be his family. 

Beyond Safrin’s desire to have Madeline and her daughter for himself I thought that his destroy the world plot felt kind of tacked on. Believable in that someone as nuts as him would undoubtedly try to destroy and control the world, but tacked on because it wasn’t revealed until the last 20-30 minutes of the movie  The main plot was really about Safrin’s revenge and another tragic love story for Bond. I did think the last hour dragged a bit which ultimately made the movie too long.

With the death of some key players, this definitely sets the stage for a reboot. I too wonder which actors will carryover to the reboot if/when that happens. I definitely think they should go 10-15 years younger for the new bond. But I’d like to see the actors who play Money-penny and Q stick around. I’m indifferent to Ralph Fiennes staying on as M.

Though this one checked all the boxes for a Bond movie and was overall entertaining, I still say Casino Royale was the best Bond movie out of Craig’s series of Bond movies. 
 

 

Edited by Enero
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3 hours ago, Enero said:

 I still say Casino Royale was the best Bond movie out of Craig’s series of Bond movies. 

I agree.

IMO:

Casino Royale: 4 Stars/4

Quantum Of Solace: 2

Skyfall: 3.5

Spectre: 3

No Time To Die: 3

Craig is very fortunate. Along with breaking the tradition of a Bond actor's last movie being his worst, even his lesser movies are still okay, rather than godawful.

 

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On 11/27/2021 at 11:01 PM, Dr.OO7 said:

I agree.

IMO:

Casino Royale: 4 Stars/4

Quantum Of Solace: 2

Skyfall: 3.5

Spectre: 3

No Time To Die: 3

Craig is very fortunate. Along with breaking the tradition of a Bond actor's last movie being his worst, even his lesser movies are still okay, rather than godawful.

 

The problem with the later Bonds is that the villains aren't memorable (even their plots are often nebulous). 

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23 hours ago, BetterButter said:

 

I especially like that line about "a literal Bond Girl", because I actually posted that on the TV Tropes page.

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I never got around to re-watching "Spectre" before seeing NTTD, so I was hazy on Madeleine and Blofeld, but seemed to do ok in not remembering the specifics.  Odd that I recall Vesper Lynd with much more detail even though I haven't seen "Casino Royale" in years, but yet I can't remember a single thing that Madeleine did in "Spectre".

Will be interesting to see where things go from here.  I wonder if they will just recast and reboot with a new actor, and when we next see Bond, perhaps there is no mention at all of him having a kid.  I very much doubt they will continue the series with Nomi as 007, what would they even call the series?  It can't be the "James Bond franchise" if James Bond isn't in it.  And I recall they were going to have Halle Berry's Jinx in a spinoff movie/series of her own, but it was cancelled because the producers didn't think anyone would watch it.  I know times have changed, but I don't think Nomi can headline a movie.  Even if they had the same supporting cast of M, Q and Moneypenny, I don't think those three are big enough draws themselves.  It's the whole mystique of James Bond, his supporting players, his gadgets, the locations, that makes people keep watching all these decades.

On 11/30/2021 at 3:00 PM, Tom Holmberg said:

The problem with the later Bonds is that the villains aren't memorable (even their plots are often nebulous). 

Completely agree.  The villains from the classic (Connery/Moore) days are iconic.  The ones from the Craig films aren't memorable at all.  I have zero recollection of the villain from "Quantum of Solace", which was by far Craig's worst and most boring Bond film.

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I rewatched "Skyfall" today. 

I think a plot like that is how Daniel Craig's tenure should have ended--completing the reboot with introducing us to the new Q/Moneypenny/M and being in the old MI-6 offices.

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I just looked up Skyfall and I hadn't realized it had been 9 years since it was released! I thought it was more like 2015, but that's Spectre.  I remember reading speculation after Skyfall's release that it was meant to be Craig's last film.  But given how successful it was at the box office, they threw money at Craig for the other 2.    

The most memorable thing about Spectre for me was the opening sequence in Mexico City.  

I'm one who enjoys the Bond films more for the cinematography and shooting locations more than plot, and this film delivered on that front.  I'm also okay with the Craig era villains being less than memorable, but Rami Malek's talent is lost on me.  He seemed to be channeling Javier Bardem's Silva. 

I didn't care one whit about the James/Madeleine love story. Mathilde was super cute.  

Craig is gonna be a tough act to follow.  I will always remember the absurd backlash when he was first announced. Bravo to him for making the role his own.  

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