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S05.E00: Crisis On Infinite Earths Part Five

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Baby Sara is back! Not so such much a baby anymore.  I won't give myself a headache trying to figure out how memories,  blah, blah works on this new Earth Prime.  Just remember none of the characters are going to show up when a solo hero his facing his or her big bad. 😂

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I hope that one of the changes post-crisis is that at least a few Earths celebrate Beebo Day.

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Really good episode, a definitely step-up from Episode 4 although this being a Legends of Tomorrow episode, that's not a surprise.

Great, great episode for Sara.  After being mostly in the background in Part 4, the writers brought Caity for the forefront and she delivered.  She is definitely a worthy leader for this new Justice League. 

I appreciated how much emphasis they put on the Sara/Oliver relationship and how much his death affected her.  Although LOL, this show has pretty much wiped Sara's mother out of existence.  I'm surprised we've never seen her on Legends or Nyssa.

Great stuff with Sara and Barry.  GG has chemistry with everyone.

Lex Luthor being beloved should be a great storyline hanging over this new shared universe.

Really loved the end with the Arrowverse Justice League and the return of the Hall of Justice.  Enjoyed the reformatting of the multiverse and the final shot of Superman-96.  I sincerely hope this isn't the last time we see Brandon's Superman.

Sara Diggle lives!

Action-wise, this crossover was never going to live up to the epicness of the story being told.  It was pretty much the team fighting CGI hordes.  They were a major disappointment.  Love Beebo and always glad to see him (the reactions to him were great) but having him show up with 20 minutes left into your biggest crossover really does lessen the impact and importance of the epic story that you're supposed to be telling.  I don't think Crisis lived up to the high expectations but this was still a really entertaining crossover and I very much enjoyed it..  Hopefully we get Justice League next year.

Edited by benteen
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Can someone help me out since I've been out of the loop for a while - who was the brunette dressed in blue and white that was fighting in the dementor battle while Ollie was up on the hill fighting the anti-monitor?
 

I couldn't figure out who that woman was - is she a Legends character? 

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18 minutes ago, Glory said:

Can someone help me out since I've been out of the loop for a while - who was the brunette dressed in blue and white that was fighting in the dementor battle while Ollie was up on the hill fighting the anti-monitor?

In the Part 4 quarry battle, the only characters fighting the Dementors Shadow Demons were the seven Paragons (while Spectre Oliver fought the Anti-Monitor) - the only women were Supergirl, White Canary and Batwoman...

(Crisis Clips)

However, in the later Part 5 battle against the Shadow Demons (without Oliver because he died again), there is a blue-and-white clad female superhero involved - that's Nia Nal aka Dreamer (Nicole Maines), who's a Supergirl character...

(Crisis Clips)

Edited by tv echo
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Guggie confirms that the "Smallville" Earth did return despite them not showing it: 

"We did not, however, get any reassurance that Smallville‘s Clark and Lois had been “reborn.” But Arrowverse boss Marc Guggenheim is here to reassure fans of the network’s OG supercouple.

“I absolutely can confirm that they’re still alive, they’re still living their happy ending,” Guggenheim tells TVLine. Previously established to have given up his Kryptonian powers to lead a normal life as a family man, “Clark is getting the hero’s ending he deserves.”

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3 hours ago, tv echo said:

In the Part 4 quarry battle, the only characters fighting the Dementors Shadow Demons were the seven Paragons (while Spectre Oliver fought the Anti-Monitor) - the only women were Supergirl, White Canary and Batwoman...

(Crisis Clips)

However, in the later Part 5 battle against the Shadow Demons (without Oliver because he died again), there is a blue-and-white clad female superhero involved - that's Nia Nal aka Dreamer (Nicole Maines), who's a Supergirl character...

(Crisis Clips)

THANK YOU! Yes, okay. I stopped watching Supergirl awhile ago. I kept thinking that was supposed to be the brunette on the phone in the Arrow Cave and getting so confused. 

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I’ve realized after this episode that for as annoyed as I can get with Nate, and marginally Ava, I’m so happy to see them at the end of the crossover.  It’s like seeing family again.   Proves how good LOT is. 

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On 1/16/2020 at 6:27 PM, Sakura12 said:

So do the paragons only remember the original timeline? While the ones that had their memories returned by J'onn remember both timelines? Do they have to learn about their histories on the new Earth.

 The Paragons do not remember the new timeline.  Kara was shocked at Lex being revered, Barry didn't know he and Kara team up on a regular basis, etc.  

 For the other heroes, it doesn't appear they do either as Clark was surprised he had two sons.  We didn't see enough of the others to know for sure.  They all should be incredible confused and off balance if the remember both (for example Diggle would not only have an extra child but also know she had existed before and disappeared).  But that's not something I'd expect them to have enough consideration of to include.   The Legend premier is supposed to have Sara, Ray and Mick surprised that the team are celebrities (something alluded to in Barry and Kara's convo with Marv) which also supports those who were "restored" not knowing the new timeline. 

 Someone has to be in the dark on each show because they'll all be mining the changes for comedic and dramatic reactions.  I'm not sure Batwoman will handle it since Kate is the only one who remembers the old timeline and she'll have no one to relate to about what has changed. 

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8 hours ago, adora721 said:

“Clark is getting the hero’s ending he deserves.”

Oh like Oliver didnt get? 

*Is waiting impatiently for Oliver's happy ending while looking increasingly pissed*

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I thought the flow of this last episode was really bad, a lot of the writing clunky, and the cheese over the top, but I have to admit to loving the very last scene, even if it was the cheesiest of all.

They got a lot of interesting details in. The Justice League IS supposed to be 7 heroes. They certainly had to adapt which ones, but one big key has always been Martian Manhunter as a founding member, and at least they got that right.  Plus A Canary (even if not this one) and Black Lightning were definitely in the second tier of Justice League, so moving them up to founders isn't that weird.  Batwoman for Batman, Supergirl (in a way) taking the Wonder Woman slot, those certainly make sense.   Poor Aquaman gets shafted yet again.  He doesn't even get a parallel taking his place.  In the TV-verse he isn't even suggested as existing (unlike Wonder Woman, who at least we know exists on the Titans Earth).  

Gleek?  Ah well.  It could be worse.  They could have also teased the (ugh) Wonder Twins, or even worse, Wendy, Marvin and Wonder Dog.  Thank god not.

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26 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 The Paragons do not remember the new timeline.  Kara was shocked at Lex being revered, Barry didn't know he and Kara team up on a regular basis, etc.  

 For the other heroes, it doesn't appear they do either as Clark was surprised he had two sons.  We didn't see enough of the others to know for sure.  They all should be incredible confused and off balance if the remember both (for example Diggle would not only have an extra child but also know she had existed before and disappeared).  But that's not something I'd expect them to have enough consideration of to include.   The Legend premier is supposed to have Sara, Ray and Mick surprised that the team are celebrities (something alluded to in Barry and Kara's convo with Marv) which also supports those who were "restored" not knowing the new timeline. 

 Someone has to be in the dark on each show because they'll all be mining the changes for comedic and dramatic reactions.  I'm not sure Batwoman will handle it since Kate is the only one who remembers the old timeline and she'll have no one to relate to about what has changed. 

Yes, the memory thing was really clumsy.  I actually can get the possible appeal of the heroes having to deal with not having memories of this world. But that would get unweildy as hell after 1-2 episodes.   Making their allies remember the other reality makes this even more awkward, because then you either get tons of awkward exposition explaining things, or even worse NO exposition and some lame device like "oh, this is that thing you told me about".  Or even worse, eventually not even that and it acting like magic with the heroes just knowing what they need to. 

They just needed to go with a structure where the heroes remember both existences.  Another "magic" explanation, sure, but at least an easy one to write around. They seem to have done it this way JUST for the shock of Supergirl reacting to "Good Lex Luthor".  

I DO have to compliment the setup of GLL though. While it's clear this will play on into Supergirl, it's ultimately got to be paid off in the new Superman and Lois Lane thing coming up.   President Luthor is CLEARLY where this is all headed, and it's a classic storyline. 

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11 hours ago, benteen said:

 

Lex Luthor being beloved should be a great storyline hanging over this new shared universe.

 

It's a classic Superman storyline, ultimately leading to Lex being elected President, which I think will be teased by Supergirl, but really left for the upcoming Superman and Lois Lane show. 

On 1/15/2020 at 1:55 AM, Trini said:

 

So J'onn is this episode's deus ex machina.  😐 But he got some stuff to do, so, yay? Was that actually a new suit for him?

New for here. Classic for the comics.

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On 1/15/2020 at 4:49 AM, thuganomics85 said:

 

Lex is now beloved by everyone?  I wonder how that will come into play for the rest of Supergirl?  I wonder how Lena feels about him, now?

 

They're certainly going to address that last thing next Supergirl episode.  But as I said above, the payout to Lex being beloved is I think meant for the Superman show.

On 1/15/2020 at 10:27 AM, tv echo said:

 

  • How was untrained Ryan Choi able to fight the Shadow Demons?
  • Sara's statement about Oliver being the last person to know her from her pre-Queen's Gambit days and her last tie to Earth is incorrect, isn't it? As far as I know, Sara's mother, Dinah Laurel Lance (Alex Kingston), is still alive.

 

Yeah, there was some pretty awful writing in there among a few gold nuggets.

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The Lex thing is interesting to me because there's a chance that the Lex of this timeline was genuinely good and not just faking but now he's been replaced by paragon Lex. 

I think Oliver is alive with his family, probably on Lian Yu for the poetic ending to his story. 

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What happened with Lex after the beginning of the episode?

 

He was giving the speech for the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

I don't remember his role for the rest of the episode, or what happened with him.

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1 hour ago, nuraman00 said:

What happened with Lex after the beginning of the episode?

 

He was giving the speech for the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

I don't remember his role for the rest of the episode, or what happened with him.

He didn't do anything else that I recall. Kara figured out that he's the one running the DEO and then got involved in the other plots that were happening. 

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37 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

He didn't do anything else that I recall. Kara figured out that he's the one running the DEO and then got involved in the other plots that were happening. 

Thanks.  Ok, so I do remember that part.

 

Even if he was running the DEO, wouldn't he have some nefarious plot?  Why did they just leave him there, without him scheming?

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Why does Diggle remember having two kids but Clark doesn't? It seems Diggle's memories of the old timeline merged with his memories of the new one* while Clark only remembers the old timeline. It sounds like a plot hole/contradiction to me. Or maybe this will get explained on the new Superman and Lois show.

*which is why I think he doesn't remember baby Sara getting erased. In this new Earth-Prime reality he has always had two kids and those memories weren't overwritten the moment J'onn had him remember Crisis.

I wonder how many of the characters who died during Crisis are back. What happened to Earth-90 Flash? Is he dead? Is he back? Will The Flash writers even care enough to answer this question?

 

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3 hours ago, nuraman00 said:

Even if he was running the DEO, wouldn't he have some nefarious plot?  Why did they just leave him there, without him scheming?

So you watch Supergirl on Sundays to find out. 

 

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2 hours ago, Starry said:

Why does Diggle remember having two kids but Clark doesn't? It seems Diggle's memories of the old timeline merged with his memories of the new one* while Clark only remembers the old timeline. It sounds like a plot hole/contradiction to me. Or maybe this will get explained on the new Superman and Lois show.

*which is why I think he doesn't remember baby Sara getting erased. In this new Earth-Prime reality he has always had two kids and those memories weren't overwritten the moment J'onn had him remember Crisis.

I wonder how many of the characters who died during Crisis are back. What happened to Earth-90 Flash? Is he dead? Is he back? Will The Flash writers even care enough to answer this question?

 

Do we for sure know Diggle remembers more than Clark? Maybe he went home and saw he now has two kids. Diggle knew Barry erased a daughter Sara. I think he would feel emotional about having her back even if he doesn't have memories of her life.

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6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

So you watch Supergirl on Sundays to find out. 

 

Oh, thanks.  I didn't know there would still be carry over.

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Unless the science team came up with a perpetual motion machine that shrinkerizer is going to run out of juice at some point.

From the look of it if I had a baseball bat even I could have taken out some shadow demons. Or a golf club, a tennis racket, a hard-soled shoe...

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On 1/17/2020 at 5:56 PM, Kromm said:

Poor Aquaman gets shafted yet again.

If only they could have afforded Justin Hartley to return as either Smallville's Oliver Queen or Aquaman; Justin did a pilot for a WB "Aquaman" TV show that never went to series. 

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Well... worst Crisis on [insert name here].. ever. Basically, the baddy dispatched in five (ok, ten minutes tops), while lolly gagging around for three episodes (well, OK, two and a half, they did something in the first one) and then addressing this issue as any other non universe threatening issue that hey have in their regular series.

The only thing that was remotely interesting to me is that now they are on Earth Prime (although, one has to wonder, why all of the separate earths got wished back to existence; just place them in one huge mega giga Earth, then. That way, you can get crossovers with much more series, than just these five (well, OK, now, with Black Lightning, six)!

As one good meme says: "I did not expect much, and still was let down".

And, I just realized, OMG, Lena still (again!) does not know that Kara is Supergirl and we will see more of Lex Luthor in Supergirl series. This is literally hell.

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On 1/18/2020 at 3:29 PM, tarotx said:

Do we for sure know Diggle remembers more than Clark? Maybe he went home and saw he now has two kids. Diggle knew Barry erased a daughter Sara. I think he would feel emotional about having her back even if he doesn't have memories of her life.

I believe he remembers because he wasn't shown to be emotional, surprised or overjoyed about getting baby Sara back. Especially when it was his best friend's sacrifice that made her return possible.

But I could be completely wrong and it's possible that the Arrow finale will expand on it.

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While that scene makes no sense and was clunky. I think it was for the audience benefit not for the characters. They wanted us to be shocked that Clark had 2 sons now. 

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8 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

And, I just realized, OMG, Lena still (again!) does not know that Kara is Supergirl and we will see more of Lex Luthor in Supergirl series. This is literally hell.

It's not necessarily true that Lena's back in the dark about Kara's identity. Kara has no idea what their history in this new timeline is, and for all she (and we) know, she could have told Lena in a much timelier fashion herself instead of Lena finding out the hard way from Lex, and Lena therefore accepted the truth more readily since Kara had told Lena up-front instead of putting it off for as long as she did in the old timeline.

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3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

It's not necessarily true that Lena's back in the dark about Kara's identity. Kara has no idea what their history in this new timeline is, and for all she (and we) know, she could have told Lena in a much timelier fashion herself instead of Lena finding out the hard way from Lex, and Lena therefore accepted the truth more readily since Kara had told Lena up-front instead of putting it off for as long as she did in the old timeline.

Yeah, well, I'll see if it is true this week. I don't have much hopes.

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At least the rampaging Beebo wasn’t the real Beebo! How DARE they use him!

Yeah, that’s all I got. 

For years I bitched about Guggenheim stealing Bats’ plots/rogues for Oliver, and now, at the end of this, it’s Supes’ from when he sacrificed himself to save everyone from Doomsday.😒😒😒

That said, it was a nice tribute for Oliver’s sacrifice. 

Best scene was seeing Routh’s Supes flying around Earth-96, that reminded me SO MUCH of Christopher Reeves’ Superman doing the same.

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22 hours ago, Starry said:

I believe he remembers because he wasn't shown to be emotional, surprised or overjoyed about getting baby Sara back. Especially when it was his best friend's sacrifice that made her return possible.

But I could be completely wrong and it's possible that the Arrow finale will expand on it.

Well we didn't see Diggle relearn the memories or come home. He could have saw his daughter was back earlier than when she comes up to him on the couch. So going by his scene, it could've went the same as Clark's.

But it does seem the Clark scene was just wrong. He should had both memories. At least that is how it was done on Supergirl. Or so I read since I don't watch Supergirl.

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On 1/17/2020 at 11:54 AM, adora721 said:

Guggie confirms that the "Smallville" Earth did return despite them not showing it: 

"We did not, however, get any reassurance that Smallville‘s Clark and Lois had been “reborn.” But Arrowverse boss Marc Guggenheim is here to reassure fans of the network’s OG supercouple.

“I absolutely can confirm that they’re still alive, they’re still living their happy ending,” Guggenheim tells TVLine. Previously established to have given up his Kryptonian powers to lead a normal life as a family man, “Clark is getting the hero’s ending he deserves.”

On 1/17/2020 at 8:34 PM, tennisgurl said:

Oh like Oliver didnt get? 

*Is waiting impatiently for Oliver's happy ending while looking increasingly pissed*

 

I read what Guggenheim said and it made me 🤣😆 because I'm sure he truly believes that, but as someone who watched Smallville from Day ONE, and the way it ended, I know a bunch of us*** stated how UNEARNED it was that BDA* Clark finally wore that suit, and we didn't even get to see him in it--just a poorly constructed CGI and his head from the airplane window. So I say, as someone who didn't earn it, that he's now powerless? Yes, that's EXACTLY the "hero's" ending that BDA deserves.

Of course, Guggenheim doesn't know jack shit, and I don't know what the former Smallville writer who wrote his scenes was smoking when he said "he knew the history" because, in the series finale, seven years had passed and Clark and Lois were still JUST ENGAGED. And that would have been in 2017. So where did these kids pop up from? Are they twins who are two, at the most? So Clark couldn't hack being Superman and quit after seven years, eh? Whatthefuckever. No wonder Tom Welling agreed to this: he didn't have to wear the suit!

*Big Dumb Alien.

I will never understand how or why a Hero's ending these days means said hero has to DIE or be thought of as a villain* Everyone else gets their fucking happily ever after. In this universe, Oliver FUCKING DESERVES it too, and by that I mean, NOT DYING, and being able to live with Felicity and raise their children.

*The Dark Knight**

**Will never NOT be bitter over that ending monologue of Oldman's Gordon.

*** @BkWurm1 please feel free to fill in anything I missed.

Brandon Routh continues to be beyond adorable in this.

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So, is J'onn just carrying around everyone's entire memories in his finger? Barry's the "Paragon of Love", but we don't see a second of him checking on Iris? And did they really build a technobabble widget AT STAR LABS without Sisco?

I can't believe I gave 5 hours of my life to this thing.

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I got nothing. Oliver dying a hero is literally the worst ending that anyone could envisage for the show and for the character. I liked how they used Sara, I liked it a lot. She was the only character written consistently across this whole thing who could be said to have an arc and who was given some moments to breathe that made sense. 

Everything else was a giant mess with a huge Felicity-shaped hole in it. And don't get me started on William and Mia not re-appearing. I'm sure fans of the other shows have similar gripes; up to and including characters disappearing and re-appearing, sometimes randomly. If the multiverse didn't collapse then how do some of the other universes exist but others don't? None of it made any sense. And now Oliver got the 'heroes' ending both he and his fans never wanted. 

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This conclusion was really anti-climatic. The other episodes were more memorable and had subplots that I want to re-watch, but this one mostly exposition about the new universe and Oliver worship. Disappointed with the action scenes.

I think parts 2 and 3 were the strongest, then part 4 but only for a few scenes.

I want less cameos, more varied character pairings, and a new EP for the next crossover.

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On 1/16/2020 at 6:48 PM, Featherhat said:

Maybe it was making the most of BR whilst he's still around and as a parting gift. Let him play a good superman so he goes out on a high, definitely not the problem with that movie?

I'm glad of it. While I'm not a fan of Ray Palmer (way too much of a pollyanna for my taste), Brandon Routh is a good actor and all around great guy. His return to portraying the Superman from the Donner movies was awesome.

 

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