S01.E05: The Lost Boy

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

The alethiometer sends Lyra and Iorek on a new path, leading to a shocking but vital clue in her search to find her friend Roger and the other missing children.

[Cranberry]

I love Iorek so much. He looks amazing. They've done a great job making him look realistic but still able to emote -- it's clear when he's just done with Lyra's shit!

The lost boy scene fell a little flat for me for reasons I'll get into in the books vs. show thread, but I feel like viewers haven't been shown just how horrifying and unnatural it is to see a live human without their daemon. Pan's fear was appropriately displayed, but Lyra should have been fighting through disgust to even get close to Billy. There's a reason everyone in that town hid while letting him starve and freeze nearly to death -- he was the worst thing they'd ever seen.

Will is great so far. I totally buy him as a mature-for-his-age, scrappy kid who will do anything for his mum. Can't wait to see more of his story.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love watching shows like his and then seeing actors I know pop up. I know Nina Sosanya from Last Tango in Halifax and Ruta Gedmintas from The Borgias.

Poor Lyra - first she finds Billy like that and now she's obviously in the place where he was. Hopefully Iorek can track her down.

[Capricasix]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I love watching shows like his and then seeing actors I know pop up. I know Nina Sosanya from Last Tango in Halifax and Ruta Gedmintas from The Borgias.

I recognized Nina Sosanya from one episode of Shetland, as well as the series W1A with Hugh Bonneville.

Also, one of the nurses in the Bolvangar scene at the end has a recurring role as a police detective on Coronation Street.

[Quark]

Another great episode.

Not sure where else to put this, but I think the best thing about this show is the music. It's brilliant! I love the opening sequence.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Quark

[scrb]

Shit got real for Lyra.

Talk of a bloodbath coming.

Still you had that magnificent scene of Iorek galloping across the tundra before the grim discovery.

The mountain they climbed before setting up camp was beautiful as well.

Are Boreal’s activities in our world  to carry out some agenda of the Magisterium or is he running his own game? 

[iMonrey]

Billy's death was sad but I'm not sure I understand what he died of. Was it that he had hypothermia from being left out in the cold for so long? Or was his mother encouraging him to let go because he no longer had his Daemon? 

[Capricasix]

He died because his daemon was cut away from him - that’s how traumatic separation is in Lyra’s world.

[meep.meep]

It might have been more impactful if they had ever shown him with the daemon.  I noticed that about all the shots of the captured boys - they never showed the daemons.

[tennisgurl]

Lorek is so awesome, they are really nailing him here, both the look and his characterization, especially his interactions with Lyra and Lee. He looks even better here than he did in the movie, and the movie won an Oscar for its effects! 

So we find out what the big evil plan is, and yep, its evil as hell. Poor little Billy and his family. The drama and horror of seeing a person without daemon is kind of hard to sell in this format, as we see a decent amount of people without daemons nearby (mostly they're small or flying nearby), but I do think that the show has done a good job at selling their importance in this world and the connections they have with their humans. Considering just touching or grabbing a persons daemon has been shown to be horrifically painful, we can gather how terrible it must be to actually remove one from a person. Everyone's reactions, both the humans and the daemons (especially Pan and Hester) also did a lot to sell the horror and tragedy. Its pretty impressive how expressive and realistic the daemons are on this show. Poor Billy and his family. 

This show in general looks great, its a real visual treat, and so much detail is put into the details and the world building and all of the sets, plus with lots of wonderful cinematography. I watch the opening credits every week, it looks so good.

And now things are even worse, and Lyra is stuck in the awful place that Billy was at. Poor Lyra, its always something. Now that she has finally found some people/talking bears that she can probably trust, she gets kidnapped by the creepiest creeps around. 

Hi Will, fancy seeing you here! 

Edited December 4, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Affogato]

15 hours ago, meep.meep said:

It might have been more impactful if they had ever shown him with the daemon.  I noticed that about all the shots of the captured boys - they never showed the daemons.

We saw ratter when Billy was captured. 
 

first episode. After lyuba and tony’s ceremony. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Affogato

[meep.meep]

You never saw any of them when they showed shots of the assembled captured boys.  If there were 12 boys, there should have been 12 daemons (what a stupid word) milling about also.

They can't commit the CGI to do the story right.

[Affogato]

It is very likely the a and e are connected and would suggest something about the  pronunciation of the word, which in turn gives the orgin. From the greek daimon. Makes perfect sense.

I’m sure others have mentioned that they must decide where to use cgi for impact. It can’t be free. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Affogato
Spell and extra letter

[Starla]

7 hours ago, meep.meep said:

You never saw any of them when they showed shots of the assembled captured boys.  If there were 12 boys, there should have been 12 daemons (what a stupid word) milling about also.

They can't commit the CGI to do the story right.

I read an interview with the showrunners about this topic. They said when they were filming they had puppets standing in for all the daemons on set, and the scenes were too crowded and confusing. It distracted from the human actors. I’d still love to see at least a few wide shots of crowds with lots of daemons mixed in, but I suppose it makes sense stay consistent throughout the show with the number of daemons they’re showing. I know budget is also a factor.

I love the actor playing Will! He’s my favorite character from the series and I was so shocked and excited to see him introduced in this episode. He seemed to get more character development in this one episode than Lyra has had all season. 

[Cranberry]

Too many daemons make it too crowded and too expensive, unfortunately. They couldn't even afford to have Pan visible much this week because we got so much Iorek:

It bothers me a little, but I get it. I don't know if we'll ever get to a point where CGI is cheap, but it's surely not going to be anytime soon, and I'm happy to have this adaptation now.

[LeGrandElephant]

If you can’t afford the CGI, don’t choose a story where having CGI animals in literally every scene is integral to the story. 

[LeGrandElephant]

But, I think even without more CGI, this episode could have been better with stronger acting from Billy. Instead of having everyone else reacting to Billy just basically being almost comatose, they should have had Billy shaking and traumatized asking over and over again “where’s Ratter?”

[Ruprecht]

I knew the discovery of Billy Costa was coming but I was still moved by it. I especially loved the singing by John Faa and the Gyptians. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I read an interview with the showrunners about this topic. They said when they were filming they had puppets standing in for all the daemons on set, and the scenes were too crowded and confusing. It distracted from the human actors.

Hmm. That's interesting, but by not showing all the daemons they are essentially "cleaning up" the world of the books, as far as I can tell. I mean, if you have an equal number of animals and humans in any given scene, and it's perceived as "confusing," or "distracting," well, then . . . that's an important part of this world! And they're not depicting it. I gather you don't really get a sense of that sort of crowding and distraction reading the books but to actually put it up there on the screen would illuminate just how present and relevant these animals are in a visceral way that doesn't occur to you just reading it. 

Besides, I can't really see anyone watching this and going "Oh, this is confusing, there are too many animals on the screen." That just sounds like an excuse to use less CGI and/or a way of simplifying the product.

[starri]

On 12/6/2019 at 3:33 PM, Ruprecht said:

I knew the discovery of Billy Costa was coming but I was still moved by it. I especially loved the singing by John Faa and the Gyptians. 

It's really surprised me that in a lot of ways, Ma Costa has made the strongest impression on me out of almost all of the characters.  The "go be with Ratter" scene just gutted me.

While I did have a reaction similar to Serafina and Farder Coram together, it wasn't nearly as strong.

[paramitch]

I thought this episode was very poignant and beautiful. So much emotion! 

I especially loved the scenes between Farder Coram and Serafina Pekkala, between Lyra and Iorek, and between Will (squees) and his Mom. I mean, OMG!

The scene between Serafina and Farder absolutely killed me. So much tenderness and it was believable that she could see the young man she had loved, even as he knew he was far beyond those days and despaired that she would recognize him. Heartbreaking. Beautifully and poetically acted (and I loved it when she kissed him like the young man he had been).

On 12/1/2019 at 8:18 PM, Cranberry said:

I love Iorek so much. He looks amazing. They've done a great job making him look realistic but still able to emote -- it's clear when he's just done with Lyra's shit!

The lost boy scene fell a little flat for me for reasons I'll get into in the books vs. show thread, but I feel like viewers haven't been shown just how horrifying and unnatural it is to see a live human without their daemon. Pan's fear was appropriately displayed, but Lyra should have been fighting through disgust to even get close to Billy. There's a reason everyone in that town hid while letting him starve and freeze nearly to death -- he was the worst thing they'd ever seen.

Will is great so far. I totally buy him as a mature-for-his-age, scrappy kid who will do anything for his mum. Can't wait to see more of his story.

Very well said. And I agree that I wish Billy hadn't just been wordless and comatose.

Spoiler

I wanted him to be more like the book, more unable to process the loss of Ratter. But I loved Lyra's scene with Lee afterward, which was new.

On 12/2/2019 at 1:40 PM, Quark said:

Another great episode.

Not sure where else to put this, but I think the best thing about this show is the music. It's brilliant! I love the opening sequence.

The music by Lorne Balfe is freaking gorgeous, as are the opening credits. I never skip them.

On 12/2/2019 at 10:21 PM, scrb said:

Still you had that magnificent scene of Iorek galloping across the tundra before the grim discovery.

The mountain they climbed before setting up camp was beautiful as well.

Are Boreal’s activities in our world  to carry out some agenda of the Magisterium or is he running his own game? 

I loved the shots of Iorek taking Lyra to the village. They felt pulled right from my brain into the show. Just gorgeous. And I loved their talk when she was eating the egg. I loved how it showed how each views courage (and Iorek's growing respect for her).

Boreal, it appears to me as presented, is carrying out activities on his own agenda, which appears to be aligned with the Magisterium.

On 12/3/2019 at 8:32 PM, tennisgurl said:

Everyone's reactions, both the humans and the daemons (especially Pan and Hester) also did a lot to sell the horror and tragedy. Its pretty impressive how expressive and realistic the daemons are on this show. Poor Billy and his family.  

I love, love, love Hester, and how prominent she always is to Lee. 

Also, Lin-Manuel Miranda is wonderful as Lee, and while I adore him, I was a little nervous about the casting. But he's terrific, warm, and yet believably a kind of chaotic good element. I love it.

On 12/4/2019 at 9:50 AM, meep.meep said:

You never saw any of them when they showed shots of the assembled captured boys.  If there were 12 boys, there should have been 12 daemons (what a stupid word) milling about also.

They can't commit the CGI to do the story right.

I credit the producers for doing what they can, with the money they can. And I understand that 'a daemon for everyone' can be a nightmare for animators and budget.

I also want to point out that most of the show is shot from a middle POV. Most people are shot waist or chest-high. Daemons are not always visible for believable reasons.

On 12/4/2019 at 4:57 PM, Starla said:

I read an interview with the showrunners about this topic. They said when they were filming they had puppets standing in for all the daemons on set, and the scenes were too crowded and confusing. It distracted from the human actors. I’d still love to see at least a few wide shots of crowds with lots of daemons mixed in, but I suppose it makes sense stay consistent throughout the show with the number of daemons they’re showing. I know budget is also a factor.

I love the actor playing Will! He’s my favorite character from the series and I was so shocked and excited to see him introduced in this episode. He seemed to get more character development in this one episode than Lyra has had all season. 

The casting of Will, as with so much of this series, is just wonderful. Amir Wilson is beautiful and poignant as Will, and so is his Mom. He does look much older than Lyra (Dafne) so we'll see how it goes.

On 12/5/2019 at 8:18 AM, LeGrandElephant said:

If you can’t afford the CGI, don’t choose a story where having CGI animals in literally every scene is integral to the story. 

Easier said than done. The filmmakers here wanted to tell this story with the budget they had. They're doing the best they can. Saying, "Well don't do it then," just feels like trolling.

On 12/5/2019 at 8:26 AM, LeGrandElephant said:

But, I think even without more CGI, this episode could have been better with stronger acting from Billy. Instead of having everyone else reacting to Billy just basically being almost comatose, they should have had Billy shaking and traumatized asking over and over again “where’s Ratter?”

I agree that Billy being comatose was not as powerful as him asking about his daemon, which would have been more heartbreaking and immediate.

On 12/7/2019 at 4:33 PM, starri said:

It's really surprised me that in a lot of ways, Ma Costa has made the strongest impression on me out of almost all of the characters.  The "go be with Ratter" scene just gutted me.

While I did have a reaction similar to Serafina and Farder Coram together, it wasn't nearly as strong.

I loved both scenes. Ma Costa (Anne-Marie Duff) is one of my favorite casting choices of the show so far.

Edited December 16, 2019 by paramitch
Added a spoiler tag for safety

[Bizabra]

I just use my imagination and know there are loads of daemons around. I "see"them in my mind. I know they are there.

[Black Knight]

Billy's funeral really got to me - first the singing, and then the shot of the mourning daemons...

Billy being near-comatose was the right choice, because otherwise there couldn't be the scene of Ma Costa telling her son to go. It would have seemed to non-readers like she was giving up on Billy too easily. It really had to be clear that Billy was already essentially dead and that what Lyra brought back was only a physical shell. If he'd been speaking, then he would've seemed rather like Will's mother - someone who'll require special care, but is still alive. And that would have carried some very unfortunate and nasty implications. The show was wise to avoid that.

I was not expecting Will to show up, but I think that's a good choice. Seeing Boreal crossing between worlds makes so much more sense now.

The alethiometer's specificity is sure Writer's Fiat driven. It can tell Lyra that there are 60 Tartar guards and a fence and whatever, but not that she can find one of the missing children in the nearby village. She wouldn't have had all the trouble of getting permission to go if she'd been able to say that instead of "ghost." I know it was so that only Iorek would accompany her and thus their relationship could be developed further, but that's my point - the alethiometer is inconsistent in order to serve the writers' needs.

[angora]

The cast and the general look of the show caught my eye when it first came out, but I hadn't read the books and wanted to do that first. I was able to get to them last year, so I'm now coming back around to the show.

I'm loving it so far. Beautifully shot, with wonderful music and great production design. Iorek looks *amazing*! The casting is fantastic--I especially love Lyra, Ma Costa, and Farder Coram. Seeing Will at this point is interesting, but I'm here for it.

I'll admit the inconsistent showing of daemons does get a little distracting at times, and I think it took away from the impact of seeing Billy here. I understand the issues with the CGI, but I think the show could do more with establishing shots to convey the presence of daemons without having them present onscreen all the time. More birds overhead in the wide shots. The odd establishing shot low to the ground, just a quick moment of a few daemons handing out under a table or weaving between people's feet. Glimpses here and there of a daemon disappearing into someone's pocket. The show does this a bit, but more of that kind of thing would help me overlook not seeing daemons all the time. Or with the Pan situation in this episode, we could've gotten a quick exchange to establish where he was.

"Where's Pan, Lyra?"

"In my pocket. He's a mouse."

"Useful in this cold. That's one thing I miss from before my daemon settled, blah blah..."

Done. We know where Pan is and aren't distracted by not seeing him.

On 12/16/2019 at 3:03 PM, paramitch said:

I love, love, love Hester, and how prominent she always is to Lee. 

Also, Lin-Manuel Miranda is wonderful as Lee, and while I adore him, I was a little nervous about the casting. But he's terrific, warm, and yet believably a kind of chaotic good element. I love it.

Agreed on both counts. After reading the books, I wasn't sold on the idea of Lin-Manuel Miranda as Lee, but I think he really works. A lot of his characters tend to have this almost jittery charisma--part of the reason Alexander Hamilton never stops talking is to distract you from his doubts--but as Lee, he brings the steadiness of a man who's seen it all and is prepared to ride it out. He has a playful side and can stir up trouble (like at the pub in the last episode,) but he can also bring this warm, calming presence, like in his talk with Lyra after she brought Billy back to camp. I also love Hester and how she and Lee interact.