S01.E07: An Almost Religious Awe

[steelyis]

41 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Plot threads coming together. 

The only complaint I had about this episode is that (apparently for reasons of plot) Laurie suddenly got hit with a bag of stupid and clued in the sheriff's wife on the nefarious doings of the Seventh Kavalry, somehow not suspecting in any way, shape, or form that the man's wife might somehow be in the know.

I think she expected a dance.

Laurie likes to push buttons when she confronts people when she doesn't have all the pieces to their puzzle. She only had suspicions and no real proof of anything, so I think she wanted to see if she could get a read on Jane, or rattle her if she was guilty. What Laurie got instead of a game of cat and mouse was a nonchalant confession and dropped through a trapdoor, because Jane wasn't about that Columbo bs.

[Cthulhudrew]

That's a good point I hadn't considered. I'll have to rewatch that scene now and see if the performances fit that perspective rather than the one I took away originally. Thanks!

[kay1864]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Really curious to see how these last two episodes go down. 

Dang, I guess we won't see how Nite Owl/Dan Dreiberg turned out.  He's 74 now...he's been in prison for 30 years?  The only living member of the Watchmen we haven't seen (although we've only seen Manhattan's forehead-atom).

(at least we won't in this season...Lindelof: "These nine episodes are sort of everything that I have to say at this point about Watchmen")

[Dev F]

So are any other fans of the original comic concerned by the fact that they keep calling the intrinsic field subtractor that created Dr. Manhattan an intrinsic field generator? It makes me worry that they've conceived of a technobabble explanation for Senator Keene's plan that's based on a very bad misreading of the text -- like, say, Keene will have to steal Dr. M.'s intrinsic field and use the machine to give it to himself, thus appropriating his godhood. That would completely miss the point of Manhattan's origin story, which is that the machine destroyed his intrinsic field, and Jon the watchmaker turned physicist was miraculously able to reassemble himself. I hope the show doesn't retcon it from a story of self-creation to a story about a very special subatomic field that the bad guys want to get their hands on.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Dev F

[rmontro]

On 12/1/2019 at 10:15 PM, SeanC said:

All that said, I'll have to wait until next week to see what I think about this, because in a lot of ways this seems like it completely throws out Doctor Manhattan's character direction from the source material.

Yeah, Dr. Manhattan was moving further away from humanity as time went on, pretty consistently.  Getting into a relationship with Angela just seems like a huge step backwards for him.  Doesn't quite ring true

But at least we're seeing all the separate stories coming together and starting to make sense.

[Lunula]

On 12/1/2019 at 10:11 PM, mac123x said:

I rolled my eyes at the elephant.  They have good memories, get it?  

My husband said the same thing (even though it's a total myth) - but I interpreted it as getting the largest land animal they could to annihilate the Nostalgia...it looked like from multiple people given how many tubes were going into that poor animal. That's when I scratched my head - I mean, how many people OD'ed on Nostalgia or needed it wiped from their system by aid of such a large animal?

Edited December 3, 2019 by Lunula
Left out a word

[Kirbyrun]

1 hour ago, Dev F said:

So are any other fans of the original comic concerned by the fact that they keep calling the intrinsic field subtractor that created Dr. Manhattan an intrinsic field generator? It makes me worry that they've conceived of a technobabble explanation for Senator Keene's plan that's based on a very bad misreading of the text -- like, say, Keene will have to steal Dr. M.'s intrinsic field and use the machine to give it to himself, thus appropriating his godhood. That would completely miss the point of Manhattan's origin story, which is that the machine destroyed his intrinsic field, and Jon the watchmaker turned physicist was miraculously able to reassemble himself. I hope the show doesn't retcon it from a story of self-creation to a story about a very special subatomic field that the bad guys want to get their hands on.

I wonder if the idea is to restore Jon's intrinsic field (thus making him human again?), perhaps by transferring Keene's or some such lunacy? I agree that they have mis-stated the original text, but I'm hoping it's intentional and will have story implications, not a goof.

[grawlix]

Quick question:

Is the game warden another instance of the Mr. Phillips clone or someone entirely different?

[arc]

5 hours ago, Dev F said:

So are any other fans of the original comic concerned by the fact that they keep calling the intrinsic field subtractor that created Dr. Manhattan an intrinsic field generator?

This was also an issue with the film and the scientific consultant said maybe it's like how active sound cancellation works: generate an out-of-phase intrinsic field that destroys the current one.

I wondered elsewhere in this forum about why there haven't been more attempts to replicate the accident, but here's the thing: either (1) it kills the subject or (2) it makes them a god. (1) is why they don't just put the President or other national leader in there, or even head scientist or billionaire running their own version of the experiment. But (2) is why those people in charge don't just ask some flunky to step in the box either. Plus, the secondary implications of (2) are that the process expands the subject's senses and abilities to the point where they may no longer feel any attachment to humanity or the chain of command.

I'm re-reading the comic, and Manhattan's father died in 1969, ten years after his accident. Jon never informed him of his resurrection. Kind of an echo in how Marcas Abar died without ever having told his mother he was going to Vietnam, or got married, or had a kid.

Edited December 4, 2019 by arc

[Lantern7]

Well. Looks like Dr. Manhattan is basically Alanis Morrisette as God in Dogma. Did not see that coming.

I don't stress in general over plot points, so I was caught off-guard that Jon has been living in Tulsa for the past several years as Angela's husband. Why? Reasons . . . most of which relate to the giant clock tower thingy that would turn racists into gods. With this series, you just roll with it.

So Vietnam not only was "saved" by Dr. Manhattan, but it became the 51st state. I would have figured there would be more to warrant the flag overhaul we've seen. Also, I'm certain the episode title was cribbed from the comic. When a man with blue skin can stop every plan you have to conquer, of course you'd be humbled.

Apparently, Mrs. Crawford got her trapdoor installed by the same company Monty Burns uses. You'd think Laurie would have reacted after the WTF moment.

Lil' Orphan Annie looks at Angela's early life, and she slowly backs away.

On 12/1/2019 at 10:04 PM, revbfc said:

This is shaping up to be nothing more than fan fiction with an HBO budget.

I’m still interested to find out how it all ends, but I’m just not moved by the story.

Think of it this way . . . this means less money for John Oliver to spend for odd crap for his show. Wax presidential figures, Russell Crowe's jockstrap from Cinderella Man . . . and so much more. Also, the jockstrap led to the Irwin family naming a chlamydia ward for koalas after John.

On 12/2/2019 at 8:42 AM, kay1864 said:

In the novel, he wore less and less as the years went on.  Briefs during Vietnam era. 

Let's hear it for no blue dong outside Veidt's play! Oh, and I still like the side plot . . . this time with a farcical trial and pigs running around.

On 12/2/2019 at 11:20 AM, Tryangle said:

I think I want to watch the Sister Night video,... just sayin'.

There were a couple other VHS tapes in the carousel, one of them appeared to be an Easter egg?

There were two . . . one of them was Ghostdancing, which was based off pirate comics. In that world, pirate comics were a thing, and that was used as a parallel in the original miniseries. I can't remember the other tape, though.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Lantern7

[Dev F]

5 hours ago, arc said:

This was also an issue with the film and the scientific consultant said maybe it's like how active sound cancellation works: generate an out-of-phase intrinsic field that destroys the current one.

Interestingly, there's an earlier interview with the same scientific consultant in which it sounds like he's making up that explanation on the spot to explain why the set decorator (without his input) labeled the machine "Intrinsic Field Generator" instead of "Intrinsic Field Subtractor." As he puts it, "my job is to go in with Marvel Comics No-prizes and somehow find a way to explain why it’s not a glitch." But it looks like he ran with that explanation in subsequent interviews, so maybe it eventually worked its way into Lindelof's thinking about the subtractor as well.

9 hours ago, Kirbyrun said:

I wonder if the idea is to restore Jon's intrinsic field (thus making him human again?), perhaps by transferring Keene's or some such lunacy? I agree that they have mis-stated the original text, but I'm hoping it's intentional and will have story implications, not a goof.

Yeah, it's possible that something about the way Keene plans to steal Manhattan's power requires the device to function as a generator as well as a subtractor. I just hope whatever scenario they've come up with is more character-based than technobabbly.

[arc]

11 hours ago, Kirbyrun said:

I wonder if the idea is to restore Jon's intrinsic field (thus making him human again?), perhaps by transferring Keene's or some such lunacy?

He has an intrinsic field already. He rebuilt it (and the rest of his body, albeit altered) after it was first subtracted. That’s how there was an intrinsic field for Veidt to subtract again in Antarctica.

[AnimeMania]

8 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Let's hear it for no blue dong outside Veidt's play! Oh, and I still like the side plot . . . this time with a farcical trial and pigs running around.

The pig jurors, I thought there would be twelve, but there seemed to be way more than that. At least they gave their verdict with very little deliberation. Pigs, at least they didn't use kangaroos, if you get my meaning. 

[Catfi9ht]

On 12/3/2019 at 4:01 AM, Cthulhudrew said:

Plot threads coming together. 

The only complaint I had about this episode is that (apparently for reasons of plot) Laurie suddenly got hit with a bag of stupid and clued in the sheriff's wife on the nefarious doings of the Seventh Kavalry, somehow not suspecting in any way, shape, or form that the man's wife might somehow be in the know.

I agree. If Laurie had enough time to say WTF twice, then she had enough time to get her ass out of that chair and point her gun at Mrs. Crawford.

On 12/1/2019 at 10:54 PM, link417 said:

I’m excited for these last two episodes, but I wish the writers would quit spoonfeeding twists right before revealing them. If we hadn’t suspected it after the amnesia conversation, we all knew Cal was Dr. Manhattan after the final exchange between Trieu and Angela.

I completely agree. This show has been very good about avoiding plot anvils up until now.

Congrats to everyone who figured out Lady Trieu was Viedt's daughter. That makes much more sense than The Comedian. I hypothesized she was the first gen clone of her mother (because of her advanced intelligence), but I hadn't considered Viedt actually choosing to procreate. With his megalomania, I figured he would think everyone is too beneath him to bother. I hope the show gives us some insight into this.

According to Peteypedia, Trieu's mom wrote a book entitled, Pachyderm Mom, which itself is an allusion to the phrase "Tiger Mom". Plus, there were two kids videos featuring cartoon elephants in the video store at the beginning of this episode. So, I'm thinking using the elephant to fix Angela's memories has a bigger significance than just the memory gag.

Despite my minor quibbles, I still think this show is fantastic.

[DearEvette]

17 minutes ago, Catfi9ht said:

I agree. If Laurie had enough time to say WTF twice, then she had enough time to get her ass out of that chair and point her gun at Mrs. Crawford.

See I think think this is a case where we expect her to act like a tv character rather than a real person.

I think it is a case where she simply, and understandably, underestimated Judd's wife.  She had dismissed her as a non-entity.  Laurie is used to being one of the smartest people in the room and she thought she had this.  Judd's wife played her, like she played Angela. 

And frankly if you see someone aiming a remote control at you and acting exasperated but not threatening, especially if you have already cast that person as a nonentity in your mind, then it is going to cause you to react with confusion at first, not with defensive alarm.   Even if only for a few seconds.  It was a critical few seconds.  If it had taken any longer Laurie's brain probably would have caught up to realize it was a threat.

Edited December 4, 2019 by DearEvette

[Catfi9ht]

8 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

See I think think this is a case where we expect her to act like a tv character rather than a real person.

I think it is a case where she simply, and understandably, underestimated Judd's wife.  She had dismissed her as a non-entity.  Laurie is used to being one of the smartest people in the room and she thought she had this.  Judd's wife played her, like she played Angela. 

And frankly if you see someone aiming a remote control at you and acting exasperated but not threatening, especially if you have already cast that person as a nonentity in your mind, then it is going to cause you to react with confusion at first, not with defensive alarm.   Even if only for a few seconds.  It was a critical few seconds.  If it had taken any longer Laurie's brain probably would have caught up to realize it was a threat.

I agree her about her ego but disagree about her reflexes. We've seen in multiple episodes where she's above average when it comes to responding in the face of unusual situations. We also have to consider her past as a vigilante so she shouldn't respond like an average person.

[Kirbyrun]

8 hours ago, arc said:

He has an intrinsic field already. He rebuilt it (and the rest of his body, albeit altered) after it was first subtracted. That’s how there was an intrinsic field for Veidt to subtract again in Antarctica.

Excellent point. Maybe they're going to "overwrite" it, like replacing data on a disc? I dunno. I earned my degree in comic book science a long time ago. 🙂

[arc]

The way this show loves its homages and shout-outs, they're definitely gonna subtract an IF from a human and it'll look exactly like it did in the comics.

7 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

So, I'm thinking using the elephant to fix Angela's memories has a bigger significance than just the memory gag.

I saw on Twitter that the real/mythical Lady Trieu rode an elephant, and also her company's logo is a stylized "T" that also has tusks and sorta looks like the face of an elephant.

[MBayGal]

On 12/1/2019 at 11:39 PM, Cardie said:

[Faithe Herman] has been a regular on all four seasons of This Is Us, so I’ve been amazed she has time for other work. 

She hardly gets any screen time on This Is Us, and is not on at all in many episodes.  Glad she has something else to do!

[scrb]

Angela didn't hesitate one second looking for that hammer when she got home.

Seeya, wouldn't want to be ya!

What did she say, he's been a good father and partner or something like that?

Guess he didn't rock her world enough despite the sex scene earlier in the season.

[Lantern7]

On 12/3/2019 at 11:29 PM, Lantern7 said:

There were two . . . one of them was Ghostdancing, which was based off pirate comics. In that world, pirate comics were a thing, and that was used as a parallel in the original miniseries. I can't remember the other tape, though.

Fogdancing. It was called Fogdancing. I hate it when I nerd-fail. The other VHS was Silk Swingers, which I believe starred Laurie's mother.

[Ubiquitous]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 8:22 PM, saoirse said:

"An Almost Religious Awe".

Under Lady Trieu's care, Angela undergoes an unconventional treatment while Agent Blake chases down a lead. Elsewhere, The Smartest Man in The World delivers a stunning defense of his past actions.

Fuck! I let myself think that since this would be a single season show, Lindelof couldn't fuck it up, due to the hard time limits imposed on him, but no....  Doctor Manhattan has been on Earth disguised as Cal all these years? That doesn't jive with the comic at all!

That said, I enjoyed the world-building with Angela in Vietnam, where there apparently are cults of DM worshippers and those whose see him as their enslaver. So now we know what inspired Sister Night persona, but I noticed a vidtape for Trunky the elephant and Silk Spector. Hmm. We also know why she eventually moved to Tulsa, OK at some point. Poor kid.

Laurie confronts Judd's wife, only to get the "trap door treatment". Before I saw this ep, someone told me about  a trap door sequence based on an SNL sketch for "Wilson Trap Doors". I found it strange that she was unable to jump free while the wife frantically pushed the button on the remote, but maybe she wanted to get caught or hear her monologue? Does anyone think it's odd that Cyclops' symbol looks like the giant squid's eye?

Meanwhile, Veidt is enduring the 365th(!) day of his trial. Why did the prosecutor wink at him  like she's playing a part in this drama?

What is Lady Trieu up to? I conjectured earlier that she wanted to

Spoiler

put Will's mesmerism machine on that tower to heepnotise people into being nice to each other,

but her discussion about Cal's amnesia leads me to believe

Spoiler

Lady Trieu wants to give everyone amnesia. Without any memories of your past, you have no reason to fight.

I'm not sure what to make of Angela being hooked up to an elephant, besides the "memory" symbolism. Then there's that globe storing everyone's messages to DM, including Laurie's.

[phoenics]

Well I'm way behind, but holy crap that is the biggest twist ever.  I never saw that coming.  Sure something felt off with Cal but WOW.

Finally all the plot threads are coming together.

Oh and Laurie definitely should have reacted faster to Judd's wife - like she clicked the clicker 3 separate times?!  On the second Laurie should've flown out of that chair at her.

 

[CigarDoug]

On 12/1/2019 at 10:54 PM, link417 said:

Speaking of Veidt, his subplot was especially incongruous this episode. Was that a tear? What was that about? Not sure what to make of the prosecutor’s wink at him, either.

Phillips and Miss Crookshanks (collectively) are like children. They are only a few days old, typically, and perform whatever tasks are assigned to them. I think that it must be like playing dress up. Today you are the maid massaging the Master's thighs, tomorrow you are hurtling your brothers and sisters via a catapult, the next you are in a play where one of you is literally burned alive, and today? Today you are the lead prosecutor against the Master. You must give a good performance, you see. Thus the wink, as if to say, "Did I do a good job, Master?"