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ShortyMac

S03.E08: The Moonshot

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Carly's attempts at increasing her intimacy with Shaun are becoming more of a frustration than either of them expected. Meanwhile, Lim and Melendez struggle in their relationship as they work to separate their work from their personal life.

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Aw, that ending with Lim and Melendez :(. I understand her reasons for ending things, though. Will be interesting to see how they handle this breakup going forward, and if it'll even be a permanent one. I did like their interaction with their patient, though. Her asking them to sign that thing for her was cute :).

Park's interaction with Rosalind was lovely and heartbreaking. The tears in his eyes at the end...aw. I'm glad that she wasn't alone in her last moments. 

Very interesting and sad development for Morgan. She definitely needs to take Glassman's advice and tell the others about this, but of course, I fear that they won't find out about it until it has a dramatic impact on her job. Hopefully it won't get to that point, and she can see that the others will be very supportive of her. 

At least Shaun and Carly seem to be in a good place now, so yay for that :). I understood the frustration both of them felt, and I like that they were each allowed to express that frustration, even if it did lead to a bit of a fight along the way. I'm glad Shaun took Park's advice to heart, and that they were able to try their intimacy experiment again. Here's hoping things will continue to go more smoothly in that regard going forward, too. 

I was thinking Claire seemed more like her old self this episode, from what we saw of her throughout. Suppose I should've enjoyed that while it lasted. 

Edited by Annber03
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Reznick and her RA is awful. What a gut punch. 

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Very interesting and sad development for Morgan. She definitely needs to take Glassman's advice and tell the others about this, but of course, I fear that they won't find out about it until it has a dramatic impact on her job. Hopefully it won't get to that point, and she can see that the others will be very supportive of her. 

And Glassman could also be at fault if he doesn't disclose anything.

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7 minutes ago, ShortyMac said:

And Glassman could also be at fault if he doesn't disclose anything.

Good point. I can definitely see it coming down to him being like, "Well, if she won't say anything, I have to" and that causing some conflict between them.

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I wish we saw more of Carly and Shaun relating, other than their problems. I understood his interest in Lea (even though I don't like her, I saw why Shaun did). We saw them do things together, we saw why he liked her; with Carly, they TELL us he likes her, but we don't see much of them doing anything but troubleshoot. We had a brief montage of rollercoaster and strolling around, but it's not enough to really make their relationship feel real.

I thought Claire was still depressed. She was kind of cynical in her conversation with Melendez.

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So now are we supposed to have "feels" for Resnick because of her RA? Sorry no feels here... She's been a biatch and adversary  too long to have any feels for her.

Edited by Gramto6 · Reason: typo
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I feel bad for Morgan. She clearly has worked very hard to get to where she is (not without making enemies, of course) but for it to potentially come crashing down with her diagnosis? I mean, how likely is it that she'll be able to perform surgeries for the rest of her life? I genuinely don't know. I can understand why Morgan wanted Glassman to not tell Andrews or Lim about it. She got through her first solo, which is great, but she makes a valid point that they'll think less of her if they know.

But Glassman does have a responsibility to inform them, especially once it gets worse. I get doctor-patient confidentiality, which is why I understand if Glassman keeps quiet now, but once Morgan gets worse and that coincides with her surgeries, then they'll need to be informed. 

What a horrible situation for Morgan.

Well, more relationship troubles for Carly/Shaun. I get it's a learning situation for both of them, but man do I wish that they could have one episode where they're happy with each other. 

Park's case was pretty sad all around. 

No surprise that Melendez and Lim broke up. It tends to happen on television. I assume it does happen a lot in real life, but still, I was hoping they'd work things out. But yeah, don't date your boss. 

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Omg, I just figured out why the actor who plays Dr. Park looks so familiar......anyone ever watch the series Falling Water on USA network?  It was a very unique show.  I found it fascinating, although, at times quite bizarre. It didn't catch on apparently, but, Will Yun Lee was outstanding in it.  For those who like far out premises, you should check it out.  

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I don't see any reason why the show has to have Shawn have sex. The idea of a doctor with autism is a good one, and it has given us a lot of situations that are unique and interesting. 

But sex? All characters do that. It's not interesting. And really, the way Shawn acts is not a turn-on. I can't see why some woman would want to have sex with him.

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I'm with you @TVMovieBuff. Left to his own devices, would Shaun be on this track? I like him with Leah better. Get comfortable with the friendship thing first, and go at your own pace.

Creepy Carly makes me think of those high school teachers who seduce their students. 

If I were trying to move in on someone who winced whenever I touched him, I'd take it a lot slower than trying to get him in the sack. I watch other shows and roll my eyes at a lot of plots twists, but I find this particular story line pretty disturbing, probably because I think Shaun has the social maturity of a 13 year-old. He's being rushed.

It occurred to me, listening to Melendez's voice, that if he isn't already doing so, he could voice cartoon characters. 

Edited by mojito
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Morgan will have to switch specialties. It's rough but not unheard of. She can't put patients at risk or even risk doing further damage to herself. She will need to find a support group of other doctors who have RA & PA & other disorders & discover what left turns they made with their careers.

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4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Omg, I just figured out why the actor who plays Dr. Park looks so familiar......anyone ever watch the series Falling Water on USA network?  It was a very unique show.  I found it fascinating, although, at times quite bizarre. It didn't catch on apparently, but, Will Yun Lee was outstanding in it.  For those who like far out premises, you should check it out.  

I went thru the same process when I saw him in Altered Carbon and it took me awhile to figure out I know him from Falling Water. So this time I knew right away☺️Agree with your assessment of Falling Water. It got so confusing at times that I nearly gave up on it but was glad I stayed.

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Poor Morgan, she can be jerk but she has worked so hard for this, and now this happens. She really needs to tell the truth though if it affects her job performance, it could be a patients life at stake. She might have to try a different specialty. 

I worried that this is how things would end with Lim and Melendez, but it was still really hard to see. I really liked them as a couple, but I can see how this would make it hard for them to continue as they were. Melendez will hopefully get out of his funk now, never taking any chances, even when his patient wants to take the chance, is a real problem for a surgeon. What happened to his patient was tragic, but it does happen when your a surgeon, there was nothing else for him to do, its not doing anyone any favors to dwell on it so much that it affects how he treats other patients. 

I did like their astronaut patient, and her wanting them both to sign something for her to take to space was really nice. 

More trouble for Carly and Shaun, and while I do like them and seeing Shaun navigate a relationship is certainly interesting, I wish we saw more of them having fun together and less time having problems. Just one or two episodes of them just being together would be nice! Also, I really wish more people had reminded Shaun that he doesent have to do anything he doesent want to do, and if he isnt ready for sex, he isnt ready for sex, and thats fine. He said that he wanted to have sex with Carly, but he seems so nervous about it, I hope that someone reminds him that its alright to wait if he isnt ready. 

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2 hours ago, mojito said:

Creepy Carly makes me think of those high school teachers who seduce their students. 

I honestly don't understand the narrative that seems to be shaping that Carly is creepy?    It makes it sound like she is some child molester or predator.  I mean, I know Shaun looks like he's 12, but he is an adult and he  is the one that initiated the relationship. 

He sees her as someone he obviously wants a non-platonic relationship with (even he admitted he thinks about sex a lot)  But he doesn't understand how to go about navigating that.   She is the more experienced partner so by default she has to be the one who has to somehow create some sort of partner intimacy  that goes beyond hanging out like BFFs.  if they are going to be in a romantic relationship then those steps have to be taken.  Obviously she likes him and is willing forge that road. And it doesn't help that Shaun doesn't know really how to communicate.

I agree with @possibilities, I think the show is doing a poor job of showing why they like each other. Instead of paces, we get jumps.

Speaking of other relationships -- I like Lim and I like Melendez., but I never liked Lim and Melendez together.  Which is a shame because by rights they are two very smoking hot people (and I always love it when we see Melendez's tattoo peeking out from the top of his scrubs)  who should be smoking hot together.  But frankly they are kinda... clinical.  So I am not upset they broke up. 

Glad to see Glassman doing something other than dealing with his horror of a wife.  I kinda like this development for Morgan.  Not because I hate her or anything but it has good story potential for her.  She is competitive and ruthless about being a surgeon and yet something she had no control over will have a huge effect on that.

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He sees her as someone he obviously wants a non-platonic relationship with (even he admitted he thinks about sex a lot)  But he doesn't understand how to go about navigating that.

Yeah, and 13 year olds are a lot like that, too. 

I discount his chronological age. His maturity is that of a young adolescent. Therefore, I find Carly creepy.

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Should have known that all of the previews asking if Shaun was ready for sex was a mislead, and it was really about Shaun moving to being able to be in the same bed as Carly, let alone sexy times.  Unsurprisingly, it wasn't a smooth one as always, but it looks like he made progress on that front, so that's good.  I do think it is strange that after all of the build up over how prepared she was suppose to be going in, Carly still seems to get surprised whenever issues arise.

Whelp, I was wrong: everyone's first surgery ends up being a success, as Reznick also passes with flying colors.  Of course, the big issue for her is that she has rheumatoid arthritis and is hiding it from everyone but Glassman, so you just know that's going to be a big deal going forward.  I'm not a huge fan of the character, but I do feel bad for her.  Interesting that Andrews apparently seems to think highly of her and deliberately picked a more complicated surgery, so she could standout compared to the rest.  Although, I guess that is always debatable: I, for one, could argue that it was more impressive that Park's first surgery was on the fly and he didn't have time to prep like everyone else did.

Not surprised that Lim and Melendez broke up since this is a TV drama after-all, but I'm still disappointed.  And it felt like I was suppose to find both of them in the wrong on some level, but I still think it was mainly Melendez's insecurities that were the issue, because from everything we've seen, Lim's calls were inline with how everything goes on this show, and didn't seem different simply because they were together.  I did like seeing Glassman actually get to be the big boss again and tell them both to put a lid on it.

Park/Shaun's case was on the predictable side of things, but still well-done.  As much as I enjoy his hilarious reaction shots and lines, it's always nice when they give Will Yun Lee some meaty material, and he shined as always.

Not much Claire in this one, but that looks like that's all going to change big time next week!

Spent the entire episode trying to figure out where I saw the actress playing the astronaut from, and per IMDB, it looks like she's played a recurring DEO agent on Supergirl!  Always fun seeing the familiar faces!   

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11 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Park/Shaun's case was on the predictable side of things, but still well-done.  As much as I enjoy his hilarious reaction shots and lines, it's always nice when they give Will Yun Lee some meaty material, and he shined as always.

The look on his face when Shaun was talking about how he only lasted eight seconds in his experiment with Carly...:D.

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1 hour ago, mojito said:

Yeah, and 13 year olds are a lot like that, too. 

I discount his chronological age. His maturity is that of a young adolescent. Therefore, I find Carly creepy.

Then I guess he shouldn't have a job either since he's not mature enough . /s

I honestly find this sort of thing ableist. Shaun is an adult who has expressed interest in an intimate relationship with Carly. She is also interested. And as we saw in the episode, they have decided they both want to work towards that goal. 

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2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Not surprised that Lim and Melendez broke up since this is a TV drama after-all, but I'm still disappointed.  And it felt like I was suppose to find both of them in the wrong on some level, but I still think it was mainly Melendez's insecurities that were the issue,

I was disappointed that she bought into what he was saying, because I agree with you.  And I don't see how breaking up is going to solve their problem - isn't the awkwardness going to affect their performance just as much (or more) than seeing each other did?  The only way to really solve the problem (since they both insist there is one) is not to work together.

Are they going to end up sticking Reznick in Diagnostics like they did with Shaun?

Edited by rmontro
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I don't find the stuff with Carly creepy, but I think she is moving too fast. Exposure therapy isn't something they should be doing without the proper training, it would probably be better for the relationship if Carly told Shaun specific things she was comfortable with, and let him go at his own pace and get comfortable with things first.

Okay everyone, let's place our bets - whose secret will come out first? Reznick having RA, or Claire's mom's death?

I'm thinking the RA will come out first - maybe Shaun will notice some joint swelling, and blurt it out. Oooh, or maybe Reznick will talk to Claire about it, and they both reveal their secrets at the same time - shock and awe Lim/Melendez/everyone else.

Also, you think Glassy would've told Reznick "Hey, go tell HR/Legal this, then if you want, they can help you out." or something similar

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I'm curious to see if Lim and Melendez stay broken up. It may be nothing, but on The Good Doctor Instagram account, there was a photo posted of Lim and Melendez hugging. It was posted about a month ago and as far as I can tell, that scene has not been in an episode. They captioned the photo "A truly precious moment". I kind of get the feeling they will figure out a way to make it work. 

I like the two of them together, so I'm definitely looking at their relationship with that bias. From the start they admitted being a little scared after both being in serious long term relationships. They haven't been together all that long, but in my opinion if you say you love each other, it's a serious relationship. I guess I don't see them giving up so quickly on what seems to be a really good thing. I won't be surprised if they take a break only to realize they want to find a way to make it work.

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2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Didn't Lim say she was thinking about working at another hospital?

She mentioned that there was a "chief of surgery" opening somewhere that she might consider.

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2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Didn't Lim say she was thinking about working at another hospital?

Yes, she did mention applying for a chief of surgery position at another hospital. It doesn't seem like that would happen - I don't think Christina Chang would want to leave the show.

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 9:30 AM, TVMovieBuff said:

I don't see any reason why the show has to have Shawn have sex. The idea of a doctor with autism is a good one, and it has given us a lot of situations that are unique and interesting. 

But sex? All characters do that. It's not interesting. And really, the way Shawn acts is not a turn-on. I can't see why some woman would want to have sex with him.

Actually... (maybe it makes me a horrible person, but...) I'm kinda curious. As I always am when presented with a character that's SO different from me, that I can't put myself in his or her shoes.

I don't really have friends that are on the spectrum, or have major OCD that would effect intimacy. But even if I had, I wouldn't come up to them and ask all the questions I have. It's invasion of privacy, it's uncomfortable for me and for them, it's just plain weird.

But I am curious about physical and emotional/mental difference. Shaun did say that he wants to have sex, that he thought about it, I took it for an indication that he's fantasizing and is aroused by those fantasies. But his condition puts major roadblocks.

Or back in the days (and I guess still, but to a lesser extent), when gay men were marrying women to conform to society and having children with them. Again, physically they were able to have sex with a woman, but I'm curious what was happening on an emotional level. Can any gay man be aroused enough with  a woman, how much is it taking out of him... etc

On an individual level, obviously, it's none of my business. But I am curious about it on a population level.

Can I live without satisfying that curiosity - sure. I'm not gonna google for that information for multiple reasons. I'm not gonna go and ask people about it for reasons mentioned above. But if a fictional show, movie, book decides to shed some light on that issue I won't mind it in the least.

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15 hours ago, vibeology said:

I honestly find this sort of thing ableist. Shaun is an adult who has expressed interest in an intimate relationship with Carly. She is also interested. And as we saw in the episode, they have decided they both want to work towards that goal. 

Yeah, I dont really like the idea that Shaun is like a child because he has autism, and that Carly is some kind of creep for wanting to be with him. I can totally see why Carly would want to be with Shaun. He is a genuinely sweet well meaning person who is smart and caring and its clear how much he likes Carly, so why wouldn't she want to date him? I mean, Shaun has autism, but is very high functioning, has a high stress job, lives on his own (well, with a roomie) and is clearly interested in sex and romance, just that he struggles with it a bit. Thats something a lot of people struggle with, especially for their first time, regardless of if they're neutotypical or not, and while he shouldn't be pressured or rushed into something he isnt ready for, but he does really want to get more physical with Carly, and is trying to work towards being ready for it.

Edited by tennisgurl
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1 hour ago, vavera4ka said:

Actually... (maybe it makes me a horrible person, but...) I'm kinda curious. As I always am when presented with a character that's SO different from me, that I can't put myself in his or her shoes.

I don't really have friends that are on the spectrum, or have major OCD that would effect intimacy. But even if I had, I wouldn't come up to them and ask all the questions I have. It's invasion of privacy, it's uncomfortable for me and for them, it's just plain weird.

But I am curious about physical and emotional/mental difference. Shaun did say that he wants to have sex, that he thought about it, I took it for an indication that he's fantasizing and is aroused by those fantasies. But his condition puts major roadblocks.

Or back in the days (and I guess still, but to a lesser extent), when gay men were marrying women to conform to society and having children with them. Again, physically they were able to have sex with a woman, but I'm curious what was happening on an emotional level. Can any gay man be aroused enough with  a woman, how much is it taking out of him... etc

On an individual level, obviously, it's none of my business. But I am curious about it on a population level.

Can I live without satisfying that curiosity - sure. I'm not gonna google for that information for multiple reasons. I'm not gonna go and ask people about it for reasons mentioned above. But if a fictional show, movie, book decides to shed some light on that issue I won't mind it in the least.

Well, I've always loved this quote which is so very, very true:

“If you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism.” – Dr. Stephen Shore.

https://the-art-of-autism.com/favorite-quotes-about-autism-and-aspergers/

How someone with autism reacts to thinking about sex, wanting sex, and actually physically having sex, is going to be as varied for them as it is for NT (neuro-typical) people.  I think almost everybody has some sort of baggage or fear about being physically intimate with someone and everyone handles it in their own way.  So - if they did that with Shaun, it would be a strictly hypothetical reaction by a fictional character. 

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10 minutes ago, aemom said:

Well, I've always loved this quote which is so very, very true:

“If you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism.” – Dr. Stephen Shore.

https://the-art-of-autism.com/favorite-quotes-about-autism-and-aspergers/

How someone with autism reacts to thinking about sex, wanting sex, and actually physically having sex, is going to be as varied for them as it is for NT (neuro-typical) people.  I think almost everybody has some sort of baggage or fear about being physically intimate with someone and everyone handles it in their own way.  So - if they did that with Shaun, it would be a strictly hypothetical reaction by a fictional character. 

That's true. But I am a pretty bland person with no autism (or any other condition that i'm aware of), no extensive childhood trauma, heterosexual... basically your average white adult with some experiences that are unique to me due to where I grew up and who my friends were. But I'm empathic enough to extrapolate attitude towards a certain issue based on information I have about someone as "average" as me but with some differences in experience and cultural upbringing. Obviously I won't know what he or she is feeling, but I can at least begin to understand, adjusting maybe for my hypothetical reaction to those unique experiences in that person's life

We gather our understanding of others based on our experience, and also based on what we learn about experiences of others. 

There are however some variables that no matter how empathetic you are won't help you understand that person. You'd know that it's different, but how different?

And yes, Shaun's experience and attitude will be different from every other autistic adult. Especially since it's such a a wide spectrum. It won't open a window to that population, but it's a peephole (lol I just read it out loud.... awkward lol) that will shed some light, even if it's a thin ray from that said peephole. (I gotta stop saying peephole lol)

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On 11/19/2019 at 10:30 AM, TVMovieBuff said:

I don't see any reason why the show has to have Shawn have sex. The idea of a doctor with autism is a good one, and it has given us a lot of situations that are unique and interesting. 

I think it is exploring another facet of his evolving personality.  Not only do we get to see him develop as a doctor where he gets exposure to how to work with and communicate with patients and co-workers in the workplace and to demonstrate that a person on the spectrum can excel in a high level profession, but we also get to see him interact on a purely personal level with the people he comes into contact with.

I think one of the tenets of the show has always shown Shaun developing new social and interpersonal skills.  A way to show that neurodivergent folks are more than their condition.  He went out for drinks with Claire and Jared, it was his first time just hanging with friends.  His entire relationship with Claire.  His living situation with Leah.  Him buying a new tux and going to a social event for the hospital etc.  All new things for him that are beyond being a doctor.  So acknowledging that he wants romance and sex is yet another exploration of his social  development.

I think it would have been a little tone deaf to have the one character on the spectrum to be portrayed as also asexual.  It would create an unfortunate association with his sexual maturity and his autism which seems counter to the goal the show seems to have for the character.

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13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, I dont really like the idea that Shaun is like a child because he has autism, and that Carly is some kind of creep for wanting to be with him. I can totally see why Carly would want to be with Shaun. He is a genuinely sweet well meaning person who is smart and caring and its clear how much he likes Carly, so why wouldn't she want to date him? I mean, Shaun has autism, but is very high functioning, has a high stress job, lives on his own (well, with a roomie) and is clearly interested in sex and romance, just that he struggles with it a bit. Thats something a lot of people struggle with, especially for their first time, regardless of if they're neutotypical or not, and while he shouldn't be pressured or rushed into something he isnt ready for, but he does really want to get more physical with Carly, and is trying to work towards being ready for it.

I would not classify Shaun as very high functioning given his improper emotional regulation/overreactions in multiple instances. He is definitely high functioning given him living on his own and handling a stressful job - being interested in romance/sex has no bearing on his level of functioning, though.

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I think it is exploring another facet of his evolving personality.  Not only do we get to see him develop as a doctor where he gets exposure to how to work with and communicate with patients and co-workers in the workplace and to demonstrate that a person on the spectrum can excel in a high level profession, but we also get to see him interact on a purely personal level with the people he comes into contact with.

I think one of the tenets of the show has always shown Shaun developing new social and interpersonal skills.  A way to show that neurodivergent folks are more than their condition.  He went out for drinks with Claire and Jared, it was his first time just hanging with friends.  His entire relationship with Claire.  His living situation with Leah.  Him buying a new tux and going to a social event for the hospital etc.  All new things for him that are beyond being a doctor.  So acknowledging that he wants romance and sex is yet another exploration of his social  development.

I think it would have been a little tone deaf to have the one character on the spectrum to be portrayed as also asexual.  It would create an unfortunate association with his sexual maturity and his autism which seems counter to the goal the show seems to have for the character.

Yeah, having Shaun be asexual would be a bad idea, full stop. They don't have to have it be like most medical shows where someone is jumping into a closet every episode and making out, but Shaun being sexual would be good. It would hopefully help banish some of the viewpoint that people with disabilities are just there to be inspirational and not do any yucky stuff like have sex or date people

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I just hate that Carly looks so much older than Shaun.  In truth there is no chemistry with the actress that plays Carly or Leah. I think they could have tried harder to find someone that would gel with Freddie Highmore. 

I don't think of Carly as creepy, just clinical, but oddly that makes them a match because he is clinical too.  I do think they need to show the audience the relationship developing. 

count me as one who does not like Lim and Melendez....and I am just tired of Claire always having to have drama.  Instead of accidentally sleeping with Mr. Right of course they had to make her the "other woman," sleeping with a liar that has kids....I hope Antonia Thomas doesn't get tired of her character being "that" one....

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2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I just hate that Carly looks so much older than Shaun.  In truth there is no chemistry with the actress that plays Carly or Leah. I think they could have tried harder to find someone that would gel with Freddie Highmore. 

I don't think of Carly as creepy, just clinical, but oddly that makes them a match because he is clinical too.  I do think they need to show the audience the relationship developing. 

I haven’t been able to warm up to the Carly character and see no chemistry between her and Freddie Highmore so it’s difficult for me to become interested in this storyline.  His relationship with Leah, though not romantic, is easier for me to believe.  Leah is real and likable.  Carly?  Not so much.  She’s mechanical, one note, and yes... rather creepy.  I’ve come to FF through their scenes.

Edited by tinderbox
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I just checked google - Jasika Nicole is 39, Freddie Highmore is 27.

I'm guessing she's playing 35ish, since she is an established pathologist (I think that is what she is?) and seems like she hasn't been a newbie in a while.

I like the relationship because Jasika was great on Fringe. What a great show and a great character she played.

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I can't help  but think that if "The Good Doctor" was a female it would be seen very differently if a man was wanting a relationship with her and also wanting sex with her even though she is clearly uncomfortable. It wouldn't matter how much research the man did. 

I think this woman is now pushing creep level to be honest. 

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On 11/21/2019 at 12:00 AM, bros402 said:

I would not classify Shaun as very high functioning given his improper emotional regulation/overreactions in multiple instances. He is definitely high functioning given him living on his own and handling a stressful job - being interested in romance/sex has no bearing on his level of functioning, though.

It is my understanding that "high functioning" refers to intellectual ability, not social ability or pragmatic living skills, in regards to the term "high functioning autism."

I figured Lim and Melendez would break up eventually, and I hope they can go back to what they were before this romance started -- friends and colleagues who respect and support each other. I think there is more potential for both of them, especially him, apart, in terms of story lines. I would like to see him connect with Claire, I like them together although I don't need them to be a couple.

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On 11/21/2019 at 11:02 PM, tinderbox said:

I haven’t been able to warm up to the Carly character and see no chemistry between her and Freddie Highmore so it’s difficult for me to become interested in this storyline.  His relationship with Leah, though not romantic, is easier for me to believe.  Leah is real and likable.  Carly?  Not so much.  She’s mechanical, one note, and yes... rather creepy.  I’ve come to FF through their scenes.

I absolutely agree. There is no chemistry between Carly & Shawn. Because there is none between the actors. Chemistry is a fragile thing. 

There is chemistry between Dr Glassman & Shawn. Not romantic of course, but that isn't the only kind of connection there is. They communicate. They can butt heads, but they connect.

Carly lays on the bed in a suggestive pose, Shawn runs. That is pressure. Aren't these the days where a person isn't supposed to pressure someone into having sex? If someone clearly isn't comfortable, you are supposed to let up?

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Shawn said he wanted to have sex, and wanted to try to work through his autism-related discomfort with touch and closeness in order to get to a point where he could have sex with Carly.  She did some research and found that people with autism could potentially respond to exposure therapy, which is what they tried.  The sensory experience with too difficult for Shawn the first time and he ran away.  But, because HE wanted to have sex and wanted to try again, he did some research and knew that exposure therapy was his best shot, so HE came to Carly's to try again.  This time, he was better prepared and made progress lying next to her and said it felt scary but good, and was comfortable lying there and holding hands.

I don't think this makes Carly creepy.  I think it highlights the challenges of getting into a relationship with Shawn because it won't be as simple as hopping into bed when passion strikes.

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6 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I absolutely agree. There is no chemistry between Carly & Shawn. Because there is none between the actors. Chemistry is a fragile thing. 

There is chemistry between Dr Glassman & Shawn. Not romantic of course, but that isn't the only kind of connection there is. They communicate. They can butt heads, but they connect.

Carly lays on the bed in a suggestive pose, Shawn runs. That is pressure. Aren't these the days where a person isn't supposed to pressure someone into having sex? If someone clearly isn't comfortable, you are supposed to let up?

I agree they don't even seem like friends let alone lovers. Yeah I think she should just give up and honestly should never have bothered to begin with. He operates on his own frequency, leave him be. Doesn't matter if he thinks he wants sex or a girlfriend or not. 

As per my other post I don't even think this discussion would be happening if Shaun was a Shauna, it would be considered sick and twisted for anyone to be wanting to have a relationship with an autistic woman. Let alone applying the pressure.  

5 hours ago, izabella said:

Shawn said he wanted to have sex, and wanted to try to work through his autism-related discomfort with touch and closeness in order to get to a point where he could have sex with Carly.  She did some research and found that people with autism could potentially respond to exposure therapy, which is what they tried.  The sensory experience with too difficult for Shawn the first time and he ran away.  But, because HE wanted to have sex and wanted to try again, he did some research and knew that exposure therapy was his best shot, so HE came to Carly's to try again.  This time, he was better prepared and made progress lying next to her and said it felt scary but good, and was comfortable lying there and holding hands.

I don't think this makes Carly creepy.  I think it highlights the challenges of getting into a relationship with Shawn because it won't be as simple as hopping into bed when passion strikes.

I think it would be a different story if Shaun were female. I don't think it would be a good look for a man to be even pursuing an autistic woman let alone wanting to have sex with her. 

The lack of chemistry as well makes it even weirder for me. 

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I wouldn’t go so far as to say I think Carly is creepy, but I find their developing relationship uncomfortable to watch, and judging by some of the posts in this forum, it seems I’m not alone, although I’m not sure that is what the showrunners are going for.  I think they are trying to sell us a story about an autistic person exploring his sexuality for the first time, but for me it comes across as forced, and frankly a little skeevy.  I’ve never been Leah’s biggest fan, but at least the connection between her Shaun comes off as spontaneous and natural, and I don’t find them awkward to watch. 

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15 hours ago, ForReal said:

It is my understanding that "high functioning" refers to intellectual ability, not social ability or pragmatic living skills, in regards to the term "high functioning autism."

I figured Lim and Melendez would break up eventually, and I hope they can go back to what they were before this romance started -- friends and colleagues who respect and support each other. I think there is more potential for both of them, especially him, apart, in terms of story lines. I would like to see him connect with Claire, I like them together although I don't need them to be a couple.

High functioning is not based on intellectual abilities - it is based on verbal/emotional development, social abilities, and nonverbal communication abilities (Among other things).

I dislike linking to Autism Speaks, but they have a good page detailing the severity levels - Level 1 being high functioning, level 3 being low functioning - https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-diagnosis-criteria-dsm5

I would say he meets Level 1 on Social Communication, but level 2 on Restricted, repetitive behaviors - "Inflexibility of behavior, difficulty coping with change, or other restricted/repetitive behaviors appear frequently enough to be obvious to the casual observer and interfere with functioning in  a variety of contexts. Distress and/or difficulty changing focus or action."

Level 1 under behaviors is "Inflexibility of behavior causes significant interference with functioning in one or more contexts. Difficulty switching between activities. Problems of organization and planning hamper independence"

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Sherlock Holmes pursued a romantic relationship with an autistic woman on Elementary, and it was character development for him, genuine, and not at all offensive. The infantilization of autistic adults is wrong. I think it's based on a misunderstanding of what is really going on with autistic people, and an attempt to make neurotypical responses the norm, and judge anything else as discardable. I think it is important to try to understand people unlike oneself, rather than projecting one's own meanings into a situation. Shaun freaking out a bit wasn't because he didn't want to be there. It wasn't because he felt pressured. He did want to be there and he did not feel pressured. His overload was because he's super sensory hypersensitive, so it takes time for him to recalibrate his system to new sensations and experiences. 

Shaun asked Carly out. He initiated the whole thing. He has been actively pursuing the relationship. It's condescending and insulting to erase his agency in this. Yes, it's messy and awkward and uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

I think the problem with the story is that they are only showing us moments of stress, and not moments of connection and bonding. The reason the relationship with Lea was more credible is that they DID show them relaxed and getting along sometimes. But I honestly always felt like Lea was patronizing him and not like she ever had a genuine interest in him. He was a curiosity for her, she likes adventure and he was something new. I always even now get the feeling that, while she has begun to respect him more, she still sees herself more as his big sister or mentor than as a peer.

With Carly, sometimes she seems like she's trying too hard, or she doesn't know what to do, but Shaun also makes mistakes and doesn't know what to do. This is the nature of a cross-cultural relationship, which is more or less what it is when someone with autism and someone without autism get together.

I don't think it's wrong for her to get mad at him-- she wasn't mad about him not being ready to have sex, she was mad about him asking her to do all kinds of things to accommodate him, and she thought he wasn't also trying, because he gave up after 8 seconds and she didn't want to do all the work. I didn't see it as pressure. Pressure would have been if she lobbied him to keep trying after he said he didn't want to. What she said was that it wasn't going to work. I think that's fine. In fact, it's respect of peers. If he can say no, so can she.

We've seen what happens when Shaun feels pressured about something-- like when Glassman was trying to make him get therapy and hire an aide. This was way different than that.

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If Glassman is going to keep his mouth shut about Reznik, he needs to take the responsibility of actually being her doctor, coordinating with her rheumatologist and assessing her dexterity - professionally, not just squeezing her hand and seeing whether she winces.

I don't know what the real-life resolution would be between doctor/patient confidentiality and not letting her endanger other lives, but even if he errs on the side of the former, he owes her more than cortisone shots and 'a chance'.

On November 18, 2019 at 11:34 PM, Annber03 said:

I did like their interaction with their patient, though. Her asking them to sign that thing for her was cute :).

Their twin goofy grins when she said she was going to leave it on the moon were the most I've enjoyed this relationship at all.

On November 19, 2019 at 1:57 AM, possibilities said:

I wish we saw more of Carly and Shaun relating, other than their problems. I understood his interest in Lea (even though I don't like her, I saw why Shaun did). We saw them do things together, we saw why he liked her; with Carly, they TELL us he likes her, but we don't see much of them doing anything but troubleshoot. We had a brief montage of rollercoaster and strolling around, but it's not enough to really make their relationship feel real.

This is my problem with nearly every TV relationship I've come across (friends, family, and colleagues too, not just romances). Regular, low-key domestic scenes that don't exist solely to introduce a conflict or boost the angst when a tragedy strikes later in the episode would do a lot for my investment in these people and their connections.

Carly is still Astrid from Fringe to me, which helps a bit - I like seeing the actress get work, plus a lot of her character there was rolling with Walter's quirks, so mostly seeing her as that same character gives me a reason she'd fit with Shaun.

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While the progression of Shaun and Carly's relationship is nice, I'm not so sure they're going to be together forever. I wonder how long this relationship is going to last.

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On 11/23/2019 at 4:06 PM, Kfir said:

I agree they don't even seem like friends let alone lovers. Yeah I think she should just give up and honestly should never have bothered to begin with. He operates on his own frequency, leave him be. Doesn't matter if he thinks he wants sex or a girlfriend or not. 

As per my other post I don't even think this discussion would be happening if Shaun was a Shauna, it would be considered sick and twisted for anyone to be wanting to have a relationship with an autistic woman. Let alone applying the pressure.  

I think it would be a different story if Shaun were female. I don't think it would be a good look for a man to be even pursuing an autistic woman let alone wanting to have sex with her. 

The lack of chemistry as well makes it even weirder for me. 

Trying to understand the discomfort...you say that it would be wrong if a man were pursuing an autistic woman.  Is that because you think he would be taking advantage of someone who is unable to choose for themselves?  Do you think Carly is taking advantage of Shaun?  Is it because he is autistic that you think he (or an autistic woman) can't/is unable/is vulnerable to other people to make their own choices about sex?

I'm a little uncomfortable with it, too, but I can't put my finger on why.

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On 11/24/2019 at 3:11 AM, possibilities said:

Sherlock Holmes pursued a romantic relationship with an autistic woman on Elementary, and it was character development for him, genuine, and not at all offensive. The infantilization of autistic adults is wrong. I think it's based on a misunderstanding of what is really going on with autistic people, and an attempt to make neurotypical responses the norm, and judge anything else as discardable. I think it is important to try to understand people unlike oneself, rather than projecting one's own meanings into a situation. Shaun freaking out a bit wasn't because he didn't want to be there. It wasn't because he felt pressured. He did want to be there and he did not feel pressured. His overload was because he's super sensory hypersensitive, so it takes time for him to recalibrate his system to new sensations and experiences. 

Shaun asked Carly out. He initiated the whole thing. He has been actively pursuing the relationship. It's condescending and insulting to erase his agency in this. Yes, it's messy and awkward and uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

I think the problem with the story is that they are only showing us moments of stress, and not moments of connection and bonding. The reason the relationship with Lea was more credible is that they DID show them relaxed and getting along sometimes. But I honestly always felt like Lea was patronizing him and not like she ever had a genuine interest in him. He was a curiosity for her, she likes adventure and he was something new. I always even now get the feeling that, while she has begun to respect him more, she still sees herself more as his big sister or mentor than as a peer.

With Carly, sometimes she seems like she's trying too hard, or she doesn't know what to do, but Shaun also makes mistakes and doesn't know what to do. This is the nature of a cross-cultural relationship, which is more or less what it is when someone with autism and someone without autism get together.

I don't think it's wrong fsor her to get mad at him-- she wasn't mad about him not being ready to have sex, she was mad about him asking her to do all kinds of things to accommodate him, and she thought he wasn't also trying, because he gave up after 8 seconds and she didn't want to do all the work. I didn't see it as pressure. Pressure would have been if she lobbied him to keep trying after he said he didn't want to. What she said was that it wasn't going to work. I think that's fine. In fact, it's respect of peers. If he can say no, so can she.

We've seen what happens when Shaun feels pressured about something-- like when Glassman was trying to make him get therapy and hire an aide. This was way different than that.

Honestly that is what has always bothered me about this show....they took everything that people  think they know about autism and assigned it Shaun.  There are many people who don't display all of the mannerisms, fears, etc.  I have worked with several people with autism  whom although reserved do like to be touched, and do like affection.  Not all react to lights and sounds ...or blurt out things the way that Shaun does, etc.   It frustrates me because I had hoped they would not minimize the importance of having a character on the spectrum in a central role on television but do it in a realistic way and not a stereotypical way.  It is not believable that Shaun could have the breakdowns he has had and still work in the position that he does no matter how much you like or root for the character.  The same with his relationships...not all are that awkward. I didn't watch the first season, or just the end. Has Shaun ever been in a group or shown interacting with other people with Autism his age?  Is it possible he could learn from other people who have already successfully navigated some of the things he is facing and can offer some insight? 

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