S01.E09: Ave Maria

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Elijah and Sydney help a Catholic teacher who is fired from her school after undergoing IVF treatment. Anthony gets involved with Briana's nephew when he is prohibited from competing on the high school wrestling team.

Original air date 2019.11.18

[Koalagirl]

6 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Nobody, huh? Has everyone written this off? I notice in the previews for next week, they're still calling it the season finale, not series finale. I guess it's not totally certain, tho it's probably  all over but the crying.

I am/was a die hard Veronica Mars fangirl, so seeing Jason Dohring aka Logan Echolls show  up in Memphis made me literally squeal like a...fangirl. Especially after what happened to him on the last episode of last season of VMars, which permanently broke my heart.

Briana's venom behind the word 'atheist'...which Sydney would not admit to being, cuz I guess she isn't...was infuriating. She spat it out the same way you'd say "Nazi' or "Trump lover".  Really, we don't have horns and cloven feet. We're nice, usually. Even Elijah feigned befuddlement over the word 'agnostic,' which Emerson doesn't really seem to understand the definition of. Subtle, show.

I’m here with you. I like this show - especially the dynamics between the various characters. I’m trying to not get too attached to the show because I’m concerned it won’t be renewed. 

[dshgr]

Two words about this episode - HIPPA violation.

[possibilities]

I caught up tonight.

Would they have won the teacher's case if they had taken Sydney's advice and shown the double standard, where her "sins" were punished but others' weren't? That's how discrimination cases usually work: you show disparate treatment.

[Dowel Jones]

So, I thought to myself, the IVF case had to come out of thin air.  The RCC can't be that Neanderthal.  I googled it.  Yep, they are.  It's real.  I didn't even get through the page without several headslaps, but, anyway, on to the case.  To be honest, I couldn't muster too much sympathy for Ava the pregnant teacher.  Not because I don't support IVF, but because she blindly thinks that the parish is still her family, and it's worth all the abuse they heap on her to maintain that facade.  Get a move on, woman.  Join the real world, and find a teaching job out there, because there are plenty of them, and most probably pay more than St. Anthony's.  That rant over, it was kind of good to see Elijah actually lose one once in awhile.

I hope that doctor gets a review from the medical board. 

Second case - Yes, there are rules about hair length in high school wrestling, and I don't think for one minute that race is the underlying factor here.  I googled that too (sidebar - even before I finished typing, the subject came up), and it is there for a safety factor.  If he had his neck wrenched by an opponent, you can bet there would be a major outcry.  And you don't have to cut it.  It just has to be tied into a tight bun or put up under the wrestling cap.  But no matter, the whole point was 'carry the civil rights torch for those to come.'

[Emma9]

7 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

So, I thought to myself, the IVF case had to come out of thin air.  The RCC can't be that Neanderthal.  I googled it.  Yep, they are.  It's real.  I didn't even get through the page without several headslaps, but, anyway, on to the case.  To be honest, I couldn't muster too much sympathy for Ava the pregnant teacher.  Not because I don't support IVF, but because she blindly thinks that the parish is still her family, and it's worth all the abuse they heap on her to maintain that facade.  Get a move on, woman.  Join the real world, and find a teaching job out there, because there are plenty of them, and most probably pay more than St. Anthony's.

Yeah, I was similarly bemused. Seems like a rather bizarre thing to ban.

(I was also wondering why the dipshit even told anybody about the IVF, such being the case. Even if, in the show's world, it's apparently okay for doctors to break confidentiality to be testify against their patients, would they really have gone snooping in her medical records just because she happened to turn up pregnant?)

Edited November 20, 2019 by Emma9

[possibilities]

They addressed the wresting cap issue. The school board said that they would provide caps that would accommodate more hair styles than the one their previously mandated caps would fit.

I think the Catholic Church's thinking is that if "life begins at conception" and IVF creates more embryos than can be implanted and taken to term, then IVF is "babykilling" -- same as their attitude toward abortion. They are against other reproductive technology, as well, including birth control pills, IUDs, etc. I don't agree, I'm just reporting.

I was confused about the woman saying she had had 3 miscarriages before resorting to IVF. I thought IVF helped people who couldn't conceive, not people who have trouble carrying a pregnancy to term. If the problem was in carrying to term AFTER conceiving, does IVF address that? I honestly don't know enough about IVF to say they're wrong, but only that I didn't know that was the case.

My axe to grind here is that if you are desperate to become a parent, why not adopt? Does the Catholic church ban that, too? Why did it have to be IVF if that was considered a sin?

Also, I was confused by the testimony from her ex-friend, who said that stuff about finding "drugs" in their house. And then it turned out to be anti-depressants. Are anti-depressants banned in Catholicism? I had no idea.

I did think the show was trying to make a case that participation in flawed institutions is complicated, and it's not all or nothing. Life itself is complicated. I can appreciate that. They showed that same theme with the legal system, religion, the school, and also how the other teacher (the one who had been wrongfully accused and convicted of murder and then exonerated 20 years later) was processing his own experience. All the stories were about fighting for what is right, but trying to be at peace whether or not you get it. It's a struggle for most of us, I think.

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I think the Catholic Church's thinking is that if "life begins at conception" and IVF creates more embryos than can be implanted and taken to term, then IVF is "babykilling" -- same as their attitude toward abortion.

https://www.catholicscomehome.org/what-does-the-church-teach-about-ivf/

This is the article on which I was basing my rant.  I can understand the objection to abortion, but the first of the objections just gobsmacked me.

[schnauzergirl]

Sorry to see NBS doing its usual thing of cancelling a show too soon.  It's grown on me and I'm sorry to see it go.  I'm a great Jayne Atkinson fan and enjoyed the plot lines involving her.

Edited November 23, 2019 by schnauzergirl

[cathmed]

I enjoyed the show, especially the return of Jimmy Smits to a dramatic television series--although this may not have been the best vehicle for him since the series has been cancelled from what others have said and/or read - too bad; it had promise.   

I was curious as to how they could handle the wrestler since it was based on true events.  It was ridiculous, IRL, for them to have cut the young man's lock by threatening him he couldn't wrestle.  Seemed like a common-sense approach & resolution in the episode

IVF - Yes, being a lapsed Catholic, 😄they are very strident in their views on conception, birth control, etc.   But I do agree with a poster who stated she just shouldn't have told them how she got pregnant.  I guess being the good/devout Catholic woman she was, the guilt and "sin" would have been too much to bear if she hadn't been truthful.

[alexvillage]

Quote

I am/was a die hard Veronica Mars fangirl, so seeing Jason Dohring aka Logan Echolls show  up in Memphis made me literally squeal like a...fangirl. Especially after what happened to him on the last episode of last season of VMars, which permanently broke my heart.

I was never a fan of his and it was amusing to see the anti-depressant issue coming up and look at his face. I guess I was expecting his scientology face to betray the acting (which I think is mediocre)    

Quote

Briana's venom behind the word 'atheist'...which Sydney would not admit to being, cuz I guess she isn't...was infuriating. She spat it out the same way you'd say "Nazi'.  Really, we don't have horns and cloven feet. We're nice, usually. Even Elijah feigned befuddlement over the word 'agnostic,' which Emerson doesn't really seem to understand the definition of. Subtle, show.

My feelings exactly. The way people talk about religion, as if you must believe in god, all that is hypocritical. I have family members who are "super evangelical" and yet, they are the ones who acknowledge that they are not bad, but they hate Muslims, they are not bad but they think immigrants and refugees "asked for it". I am not perfect but I am 100% more humane than all of them combined. 

On 11/20/2019 at 7:35 PM, possibilities said:

I was confused about the woman saying she had had 3 miscarriages before resorting to IVF. I thought IVF helped people who couldn't conceive, not people who have trouble carrying a pregnancy to term. If the problem was in carrying to term AFTER conceiving, does IVF address that? I honestly don't know enough about IVF to say they're wrong, but only that I didn't know that was the case.

I think you are right. IVF is for people who cannot conceive. Miscarriages have to do with something related to the process of implantation in the uterus. But my knowledge is basic, amateur.  

On 11/20/2019 at 7:35 PM, possibilities said:

My axe to grind here is that if you are desperate to become a parent, why not adopt? Does the Catholic church ban that, too? Why did it have to be IVF if that was considered a sin?

Yeah, that is one think I see a lot in very religious people. Not that they don't adopt, but I see a lot of them adopting as if this is part of an obligation to proselytize the whole world. I personally know people who have been all over Africa, they adopted children there and those children became pastors. Not saying they are not good people, but the reasons behind adoption seem to be a matter of expand the "word of god" than of taking a social conscious action.

In a very personal note, I have a family member who cannot get pregnant. Very religious couple, anti-choice. I am pro-choice so they posed an hypothetical situation where instead of having an abortion, I should probably carry the pregnancy to term and then give the child to the relatives to raise. So, not only my choices are ignored, they would have denied me a choice. But is the years they have been trying, they never considered adoption. 

Hence my initial comment on hypocrisy.

The way the woman was presented to us, I don't feel sorry for her. And the fact is, as wrong as the whole thing is, it was a contract and she broke it. Trying to get her job back wasn't going to happen. Most likely the priest would be transfer to another parish as a punishment for going over his superiors.