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S01.E08: Useless Potheads

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was bob drinking and blowing off taking care of his mother suppose to endear him to the audience? at lest his bother and sister even tho super misguided and all were there and tried .... he just blew it off to hang out and get drunk cause "sometimes its hard" dude didn't do shit but hang out at a bar........all while his siblings actually stayed with their mother ... what a douche 

Edited by Keywestclubkid
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This may be an unpopular opinion, but I really don't like Bob's family.  I can't even muster up any sympathy for his mother after her hateful, racist tirade the other week.  I'm not a huge fan of Abishola's aunt and uncle, but I do like her son.  I'm glad they showed him finally doing something fun for once.  Of course, he will probably get in trouble for it once Abishola find out.  I like the concept of the show and I think Bob and Abishola are sweet together, but the whole "nobody works harder than Nigerians" shtick is getting a bit old.

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It's nice seeing the two Nigerian workers close a deal after what happened last week with the staff. 

I laughed at Bob and Douglas trying to place Christina in the wheelchair and her falling on her face. Lock the breaks first, guys. Douglas and Christina managed to get Dottie to the washroom which was more than I thought they were capable of. Maybe there's hope for them yet. 

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16 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

It's nice seeing the two Nigerian workers close a deal after what happened last week with the staff. 

But we never saw evidence of the deal. And after their last outing as interim Sock CEOs…

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6 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But we never saw evidence of the deal. And after their last outing as interim Sock CEOs…

That’s what I kept thinking ... something was gonna drop that they didn’t actually close it.. especially after them getting everyone to walk out when they ran the place them self’s last time. Why would bob keep them in a position of power at all after that it makes no sense. Would the employees really be ok with them still in that kind of position?

Edited by Keywestclubkid
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1. Well at least the brother and sister were trying. 

2.  Why do they not hire more than one nurse?

3.  Abeshola could try to spend some time with her kid.

4. What was the point of that kid's video?

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I don't understand Dotty's stroke. It looks like one side of her face is paralyzed, but the OPPOSITE hand/arm is, too? I thought it would be all on the same side.

Also, you don't recover from a stroke by lying in bed all the time, do you? Is she getting any rehab?

I know it's a comedy, but still... this was distracting to me.

I also wondered why there was no fallout from the entire staff walking out during the previous episode.

I liked Abishola's friends rolling their eyes at Abishola's concern over Bob's mom: "just marry him already!" They are more fun than most of the other side characters. Also, one of them taking the other for her first Nigerian food-- and her saying she  might bring all of it for Abishola (not just any leftovers)-- I actually don't know what Nigerian food is like, but clearly the friend was worried she wouldn't like it, but was planning to give it a go.

I also liked: "Why didn't you ask her?" [about paying more rent], followed by "I did ask her". That kind of code talking usually isn't as funny to me, but somehow it worked this time.

I was also surprised that Bob was blowing everyone off and going out drinking, but I think his siblings really needed to step up and take some responsibility. Bob has been the only one of them doing anything at home or work for a long time, so maybe it was good for him to get a break and them to start to take a little responsibility. And he was sitting up at his mom's bedside, sleeping in a chair, at night, which isn't nothing.

It looks like they are planning to ignore Dotty's racist tirade from last episode. I think that minimizes it, but it's also true that a lot of people do give others (especially family) a pass on horrible behavior. It bothers me. I don't forgive her, but apparently Chuck Lorre does. Disappointing. If they didn't want to deal with it, they shouldn't have had it happen in the first place.

Edited by possibilities
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If Bob's siblings are not going to take care of the family business and plan to spend all their time hanging out at Bob's house, it is not unreasonable for them to spend some time taking care of their mother. Bob shouldn't have to give them a pass on both obligations. Bob's siblings were not even hanging out in the same room with their mother, they were having minimal engagement with her. Bob was out rewarding his employees for doing something that he didn't even think that he could accomplish. Bob's siblings could at least hang out in their mother's room while Abishola is there and pretend they are learning how to take care of their mother and try to keep her spirits up.

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1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

If Bob's siblings are not going to take care of the family business and plan to spend all their time hanging out at Bob's house, it is not unreasonable for them to spend some time taking care of their mother. Bob shouldn't have to give them a pass on both obligations. Bob's siblings were not even hanging out in the same room with their mother, they were having minimal engagement with her. Bob was out rewarding his employees for doing something that he didn't even think that he could accomplish. Bob's siblings could at least hang out in their mother's room while Abishola is there and pretend they are learning how to take care of their mother and try to keep her spirits up.

I don't know how reasonable this is, they insisted on sleeping in the same bed with their mom even when she protested and then played cards with her. I don't think it's the end of the world that they went out of the room to smoke pot, it's better than making their mom smell that. Overall, I think they made as much of an effort as they could while still keeping the tone of the show light - this is meant to be a comedy after all.

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14 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I don't know how reasonable this is, they insisted on sleeping in the same bed with their mom even when she protested and then played cards with her. I don't think it's the end of the world that they went out of the room to smoke pot, it's better than making their mom smell that. Overall, I think they made as much of an effort as they could while still keeping the tone of the show light - this is meant to be a comedy after all.

All this happened because Bob and Abishola weren't there. They had to step up their game.

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I'm not loving Bob's family at all.  There's nothing endearing about any of them, IMHO.  I actually like Abishola's aunt and uncle as well as the two women from Abishola's hospital.  They are comedy gold.  Bob's family, not so much.  I tend to agree with all the negative opinions on this episode already posted.  I'm not loving the stroke story line.  I wish they had gone in a different direction.  Bob's mother is the most difficult character to tolerate and detracts from the show.

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8 hours ago, watches2muchtv said:

2.  Why do they not hire more than one nurse?

Good question.  Also, doesn't Medicare cover at least part of some short term nursing care in such circumstances?  Of course this is a sitcom so it bears no resemblance to reality, of course.

8 hours ago, watches2muchtv said:

3.  Abeshola could try to spend some time with her kid.

4. What was the point of that kid's video?

I agree with 3. I have no idea about 4 unless it was to show off the actor's break dancing ability.

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8 hours ago, watches2muchtv said:

4. What was the point of that kid's video?

I think it was to show that Dele has an interest in something that Abishola would think of as frivolous and definitely would not let the kid waste any more time on. This will probably create resentment and a huge rift between the two in some later episode, especially after the video goes viral.

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42 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Good question.  Also, doesn't Medicare cover at least part of some short term nursing care in such circumstances?  Of course this is a sitcom so it bears no resemblance to reality, of course.

They would, but you have to know Medicare rules to know that. My 80+ year old dad didn't know that until I told him. And he had spent some time in a facility and even they didn't tell him he could get a home health aid for a period of time once he left the rehab facility. I'm kind of surprised the mom isn't in a rehab facility.  My father may have had a very small stroke and he was admitted to a rehab facility for a few weeks (several months after the fact due to my mother being whatever the opposite of a hypochondriac is). I get that she may not want to be admitted, but it is probably the best place for her because if nothing else she needs to be working with physical therapists to get her mobility back or else she just stays weak. 

I do agree with most of y'all about the family. I don't really like Bob's family and I suppose the stroke is their way of forcing Bob & Abishola together more quickly. The thing is, they had a nice date. She was great when the mom was having the stroke. There's no need to push them together artificially with Abishola helping out. They could have just continued to date like normal people do. Keep the mom with the stroke but put her in a facility and better use Abishola's expertise having her check on Bob and check in on her in the facility. 

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11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But we never saw evidence of the deal. And after their last outing as interim Sock CEOs…

Totally agree!!  This is all I could think of as Bob is promising the guys a bonus and taking them out on a celebratory night-on-the-town.  They have already proven they can't handle being in charge for even one day.  Wake up, Bob! 

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11 minutes ago, DoYouLikeMutton said:

Totally agree!!  This is all I could think of as Bob is promising the guys a bonus and taking them out on a celebratory night-on-the-town.  They have already proven they can't handle being in charge for even one day.  Wake up, Bob! 

I don't know if you ever watched The Office, but in one of the first seasons, Michael Scott, by all accounts a terrible boss, closed a major deal with the school district which was a big coup for his branch.  It could be the guys couldn't handle managing people, but were very good at reading people and getting the deal done. Different skills. 

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I could spend oodles more time on this thread because so many of the various characters are like my family and experience, but one thing that keeps sticking in my mind is Abishola's line about her having a "15-hour" day. I can feel her exhaustion. 

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38 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I could spend oodles more time on this thread because so many of the various characters are like my family and experience, but one thing that keeps sticking in my mind is Abishola's line about her having a "15-hour" day. I can feel her exhaustion. 

And my first thought is all the potential mistakes she could make being overtired. They don't allow commercial pilots to overwork....why is it allowed in the medical industry?  

And I'm not referring to private nursing like Abishola is doing on top of her hospital work.  I'm referring to nurses allowed to work 12 hour days, 4 in a row.  

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If I were Abishola I would NEVER step foot in that house again as long as his mother was there. Her tirade was not forgivable.  The night before my wedding my now husband's sister made a face and asked him "don't you have any white friends?" A few days before her husband came to our home and said (after I left the room) that he belongs to a motorcycle club and they let "my people join and tolerate them" We sent back their wedding gift and asked them to never contact us again. His mother and brother did the same in kind. When someone shows you who they are - believe them. 

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3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Good question.  Also, doesn't Medicare cover at least part of some short term nursing care in such circumstances?  Of course this is a sitcom so it bears no resemblance to reality, of course.

Depends. For someone with means like this family medicare would cover very very little. I have friend whose parents need full time care and medicare refused because they owned property and had a car payment. 

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2 hours ago, Boofish said:

Depends. For someone with means like this family medicare would cover very very little. I have friend whose parents need full time care and medicare refused because they owned property and had a car payment. 

I think you are thinking of Medicaid. Medicare typically doesn't cover in home treatment, I think, but would cover if she had to go to a facility for 20 days after a hospitalization of 3 days.

I thought this was the worst episode since the pilot.  Not enough of Bob and Abishola together, and way too much of his horrid family.

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53 minutes ago, deaja said:

I think you are thinking of Medicaid. Medicare typically doesn't cover in home treatment, I think, but would cover if she had to go to a facility for 20 days after a hospitalization of 3 days.

I thought this was the worst episode since the pilot.  Not enough of Bob and Abishola together, and way too much of his horrid family.

You are right; thanks for the correction. 

Also agree I don't tune in to see his cartoonish overacting brother and sister

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Two things about the mother being racist: 1) Nurses and doctors have to treat people who are repugnant the same as they would treat anyone else. I'm sure it's not the first time Abishola has encountered this. 2) Abishola is helping *Bob* (and getting paid for it); she's not doing his mother a favor.

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I could be mildly amused by the Useless Pothead siblings and loudmouth mom, if only the horrible racist verbiage had been spoken by a neighbor or even one of the mom’s friends instead of by Bob’s mother. Lest we forget, she said in part:

Quote

You don't tell me what's what. I tell you. -- You don't think so? You need to know your place.I  know about you. You people are all the same. You worm your way into our lives and take everything we worked for

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11 hours ago, deaja said:

I think you are thinking of Medicaid. Medicare typically doesn't cover in home treatment, I think, but would cover if she had to go to a facility for 20 days after a hospitalization of 3 days.

After my Dad's bypass surgery in 2010 he had 2 weeks of recovery in a rehab. facility all covered by a combination of Medicare and Tricare (a Medi-gap plan for veterans), since he is a WWII veteran (still alive at 92!), so I would imagine that after a stroke shouldn't there be something like that offered?  I can't imagine that someone that incapacitated would just be let go without some recommendations for aftercare made by their assigned social worker at the hospital.  BTW, the social worker at my Dad's hospital recommended that he go for rehab. and helped him choose a facility.

14 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I could be mildly amused by the Useless Pothead siblings and loudmouth mom, if only the horrible racist verbiage had been spoken by a neighbor or even one of the mom’s friends instead of by Bob’s mother. Lest we forget, she said in part:

Wow, it's as bad as I remember it.  I don't even think Archie Bunker himself ever uttered anything that bad.  Close but not that bad.....

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10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Wow, it's as bad as I remember it.  I don't even think Archie Bunker himself ever uttered anything that bad.  Close but not that bad.....

And yet, the words alone are not nearly as bad as when I heard them. Is that good acting? Bad acting? Good directing? Poor directing choice? After reading the text of it, I wonder if it was supposed to sound as bad as it did. Or maybe they just didn’t realize how bad it would look. Should’ve been cut IMO, for this show’s premise. Here we are watching this episode, and it still reverberates. 
But it was so realistically awful, that I can also understand wanting to leave it in —so any viewer who might talk like that can see what it looks like. IDK .

.

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

After my Dad's bypass surgery in 2010 he had 2 weeks of recovery in a rehab. facility all covered by a combination of Medicare and Tricare (a Medi-gap plan for veterans…

Medigap plans can be very expensive if the client tries to sign up without having had continuous medical insurance, especially if having a preexisting condition. I did have continuous medical insurance but am still paying about $300/mo for medigap plus $2000/yr deductible. I can afford to live about 10 more years, heh. 
Point is: Bob’s mom —like many our age— may have decided not to get medigap. 
Plus: plot. 

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 Bob and Abishola and their relationship are still the highlight of the show for me, and I would much rather watch them start dating then deal with all of this stuff with the stroke. They have such sweet chemistry with each other, like when they were teasing each other about being "sweet" on each other, and thats what makes the show work for me. 

Useless pothead siblings were better this week at least, but I am still not feeling being around Bobs mother after her racist tirade last time. Being afraid after a stroke and being rude is one thing, but that kind of racism wont go away. A stroke cant make you a different person, it just removes your filter, and if thats what is really going on in her head, thats very concerning. 

Its nice to see Abisholas son doing something outside of the classroom, even though she is not going to happy to see him doing something not school related. Maybe Bob can help convince her to loosen up a bit with him?  

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I agree it was a serious mistake to have Bob's mother be that horrible and then act like it's not a very serious, very big deal afterwards.

Aside from that, I am liking the show and I think it could go on a long time, because it goes from being about them meeting to them being together. Lots of fodder there.

Maybe someday Bob finds out what his mother said and kicks her out of the house, or otherwise enforces serious consequences.

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On 11/19/2019 at 12:47 PM, Boofish said:

If I were Abishola I would NEVER step foot in that house again as long as his mother was there. Her tirade was not forgivable.  The night before my wedding my now husband's sister made a face and asked him "don't you have any white friends?" A few days before her husband came to our home and said (after I left the room) that he belongs to a motorcycle club and they let "my people join and tolerate them" We sent back their wedding gift and asked them to never contact us again. His mother and brother did the same in kind. When someone shows you who they are - believe them. 

Exactly!  I don't understand the whole idea of Abishola so easily forgiving Bob's mother.  I don't care that she has feelings for Bob and wants to help him.  Some things are not forgivable, and her having a stroke is absolutely no excuse for what she said.  I would have been done with that woman right then and there.  Bob either would have understood and respected my decision or we would have to go our separate ways.  I'm so glad that your husband saw his sister and her husband for what they really are.  Too many people tolerate that kind of nonsense in the name of "family."

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22 hours ago, wendyg said:

Two things about the mother being racist: 1) Nurses and doctors have to treat people who are repugnant the same as they would treat anyone else. I'm sure it's not the first time Abishola has encountered this. 2) Abishola is helping *Bob* (and getting paid for it); she's not doing his mother a favor.

Of course it's not likely the first time Abishola has had to deal with a racist idiot as a patient.  There are articles on PubMed about the ethical dilemma of dealing with racist patients, as this is something that non-white nurses and doctors encounter often.  However, this could very well be the first time Abishola has had to deal with it in a context where she can walk away if she chooses to do so.  I don't care how much Bob is paying her, she is still doing this as a favor to him.  This isn't one of her patients at the hospital where she has to suck it up and deal with to keep from losing her primary job.  Dottie literally threw something on the floor and told Abishola to fetch, as if she was a dog.  No amount of extra money is worth tolerating that kind of treatment.

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Also, the show is making it clear that Abishola isn't doing it out of professional obligation. She says she cares, she is pre-occupied with the situation while elsewhere, even after hours. She is being extra kind, and has not told Bob what his mother said.

The show is whitewashing the situation, and I really want them to course correct somehow. The only way I can think of is to have Bob find out and do something about it.

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16 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Also, the show is making it clear that Abishola isn't doing it out of professional obligation. She says she cares, she is pre-occupied with the situation while elsewhere, even after hours. She is being extra kind, and has not told Bob what his mother said.

The show is whitewashing the situation, and I really want them to course correct somehow. The only way I can think of is to have Bob find out and do something about it.

I completely agree with you.  She's not doing it out of professional obligation at all.  She's doing it because she has feelings for Bob, and she's now overworked and exhausted.  Something makes me think they're just going to sweep that whole racist tirade under the rug and pretend it never happened.  Dottie goes from telling Abishola to "fetch" in one episode to asking her to give her grandkids in the next?  Give me a break!  The only way I can see them course correcting now is if something else happens that prompts Abishola to tell Bob the truth about what Dottie said.  I really think Bob should know the truth and Abishola should be able to express how it really made her feel, but I just don't think the show is willing to go down that road.

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2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I agree it was a serious mistake to have Bob's mother be that horrible and then act like it's not a very serious, very big deal afterwards

Are there any ADOS writers or producers on the show? I’m just wondering if TPTB still have no clue that we are waiting for them to walk this back, like:

24 minutes ago, possibilities said:

have Bob find out and do something about it.


 

6 minutes ago, TheLotusFlower said:

Something makes me think they're just going to sweep that whole racist tirade under the rug and pretend it never happened.  Dottie goes from telling Abishola to "fetch" in one episode to asking her to give her grandkids in the next?  Give me a break!  The only way I can see them course correcting now is if something else happens that prompts Abishola to tell Bob the truth about what Dottie said.  I really think Bob should know the truth and Abishola should be able to express how it really made her feel, but I just don't think the show is willing to go down that road.

It occurred to me that the racist scene was deemed too well-portrayed to cut, but, ya know, Lorre et al., sometimes ya have to cut some elegant prose, or not include a perfectly executed piece of art if it just doesn’t fit with the project and goes off on an irrelevant tangent.
But, yeah, I doubt they’ll revisit it unless there’s a huge amount of social media hoopla about it.

-

Anyway, one really good thing about this episode is that now we have a terrific shorthand for Bob’s siblings: Useless Potheads —and it has Abishola’s endorsement.

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But we know from this episode and next week's preview that mom actually likes Abi and believes she is good for her son, nevermind that she really does appreciate her compassionate care and trusts her as her nurse. If mom had an out and out hatred and intolerance for POC, there is no way she would accept, much less promote a serious relationship between Bob and Abi. She spoke crudely and in a very prejudiced and hurtful way and she almost certainly harbors many of the biases that she verbalized, consciously or unconsciously. Many of us struggle with such unconscious biases. That said, she expressed her regret and apologized, she just returned from the hospital after a major stroke, she must deal with the significant fears relating to her  becoming as dependent as an infant for the first time since she was, well, an infant, and whether her children will be there for her or try to pawn off all her care on strangers. I suppose my question is whether there is room for forgiveness for this particular character or is the fact that the character spouted some inappropriate words with racist context in the midst of an extreme situation makes her forever irredeemable as a human being. Frankly, I find complex characters who show multiple facets, some positive, some not so much, to be far more interesting than one-dimensional stereotypes, even if they are always sweet and kind. I do find the stroke storyline a peculiar direction to go in and perhaps poorly thought out, but it gives Ebersole an opportunity to work harder and i think she has been doing fine the past couple of episodes. I see a character carrying some ugly beliefs, but not beyond the ability to grow and challenge her own beliefs. I also find quite palpable her fear, depression, as well as her love for her children, her hope for a happy future for Bob, and her growing respect and appreciation for Abi. In this way, she joins Bob, Abi, and Abi's son as the only characters to have some depth and dimension and therefore these are the four characters I currently find most interesting. Every other character I find to be somewhat of a cookie cutter and or a stereotype and so far there just for cheap laughs and thus not very engaging for me and frequently annoying. I include in that group the brother and sister, the aunt and the uncle, the factory floor workers, and the hospital coworkers. (I will admit to a bit of a soft spot for the uncle but he's still basically a stereotype at this point.)  There is a lot of good material and potential character development to mine among that long list, so I hope they try to make the other supporting cast more three dimensional. 

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2 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

Some things are not forgivable

In relation to my last post, I guess I am challenging that claim. Is there truly anything that cannot be forgiven? Since the question can only be answered by the victim in any particular situation, and forgiveness first and foremost is an opportunity for the victim to heal spiritually and emotionally from their trauma, I sure hope for the sake of victims everywhere that anything and everything is forgivable.

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2 hours ago, sd dude said:

. If mom had an out and out hatred and intolerance for POC, there is no way she would accept, much less promote a serious relationship between Bob and Abi[shola].

I can't find the study or references to it right now, but my daughter and I heard an NPR bit that discussed how racists (or class-ist or ageist or whatever-ist) people will like and accept individual members of the specific out-group, but while still retaining their ingrained prejudices. 
This may or may not be the case here, but, based on having watched 12 seasons of Lorre's The Big Bang Theory, I am not expecting character consistency from one episode to the next. 

-

2 hours ago, sd dude said:
5 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

Some things are not forgivable

In relation to my last post, I guess I am challenging that claim. Is there truly anything that cannot be forgiven?

Throughout my life I have cultivated selective amnesia to deal with habitually emotionally-hurtful relatives (I wish I had a fun term for them like "Useless Potheads").
My sister and I are now officially senior citizens (Lorre's age) and she has only just recently finally said something "unforgiveable" which means that, like Abishola, I will continue to act civilly towards her, but, perhaps unlike Abishola, I will never again "forget" that at any moment my sister can hurt me.
I would like to see something like this play out with Abishola and Bob's mom, but I doubt Lorre will go there. 
Abishola has accepted that in this country she will have to deal with racism daily--like when she did not want Bob to walk her all the way to work because he was a white man--and she cannot afford to isolate herself from it.
But it could happen within her relationship with Bob's family. Nothing we have seen since The Racism Episode (what was it's title?) prevents Abishola from telling Bob how his mother makes her feel.

———————

️ETA: Henceforth my irritating relatives will be known as “Useless Potheads” although “Wino” might be more apt, but that just makes “UP” better code at family gatherings. 

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12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Medigap plans can be very expensive if the client tries to sign up without having had continuous medical insurance, especially if having a preexisting condition. I did have continuous medical insurance but am still paying about $300/mo for medigap plus $2000/yr deductible. I can afford to live about 10 more years, heh. 
Point is: Bob’s mom —like many our age— may have decided not to get medigap. 
Plus: plot. 

Could be, but I guess I'm assuming Bob's mother has the money for medigap.  I intend to look into it in a few years when the time comes and make a decision on how much I can afford and if I think it's worth it.  BTW, Tricare is free for qualifying veterans like my Dad.   

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I can't find the study or references to it right now, but my daughter and I heard an NPR bit that discussed how racists (or class-ist or ageist or whatever-ist) people will like and accept individual members of the specific out-group, but while still retaining their ingrained prejudices. 
This may or may not be the case here, but, based on having watched 12 seasons of Lorre's The Big Bang Theory, I am not expecting character consistency from one episode to the next. 

To your first point, that's something I never needed a study to tell me as it is something I have noticed all my life, especially in the older generations.  It always boggled my mind.

Speaking of BBT, at least when Sheldon said horrible racist stuff the audience could slough it off as part of his weirdness and "forgive" him his cluelessness "for he knows not what he does".  Bob's mother's racist tirade on this show didn't qualify for that.  It was just unforgivable.  I wonder if the intention was to give her regular exposure Abishola to change her.  Their idea being that exposure to an actual person of that other race will make her see the error of her ways and change to a non-racist person. That's the only thing I could imagine they'd be trying to get out of all of this.  Otherwise it's just bad TV.

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57 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

wonder if the intention was to give her regular exposure Abishola to change her.  Their idea being that exposure to an actual person of that other race will make her see the error of her ways and change to a non-racist person. That's the only thing I could imagine they'd be trying to get out of all of this.  Otherwise it's just bad TV

Could be. But then that would mean the writers  have neither heard of the social science studies nor had the life experiences/observations that disprove the likelihood of such a transformation happening.  
But TV has often been populated by magically transformed people, so if they are going there, I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. 

WRT Lorre’s allowing inconsistency of characters on TBBT, I wasn’t even thinking of Sheldon’s racist comments (which were immediately quashed by the POC HR lady), but rather Penny being alternately stupid and clever. I thought maybe on this show that Bob’s mom will similarly alternate her angry “Fetch!” commands with “please give me a grandchild,” with the rationale being that humor comes from the juxtaposition of a known character with unexpected behavior. 
But if that was the plan in the writers room, they need someone to edit out stuff that crosses the line of making fun of truly shameful behavior. Or am I old fashioned to expect that?

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Was Bob's mom's tirade based on Abishola's race or Abishola being an immigrant or both. If Bob's mom was upset because Abishola was an immigrant and not because she was a POC, would that change how you feel?

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2 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Was Bob's mom's tirade based on Abishola's race or Abishola being an immigrant or both. If Bob's mom was upset because Abishola was an immigrant and not because she was a POC, would that change how you feel?

Bob’s mother’s words were typical of white racists asserting their own perceived inherent higher status over African Americans. 
If Bob’s mom’s speech had been anti-immigrant invectives, that could potentially be just as horrible. It would depend on the words used and the phrasing. 

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I thought the comment was anti-immigrant.  Chuck Lorre said he wants this show to be about the American immigrant experience, which given the current climate of the nation, I applaud.  The show has shown a willingness to go to uncomfortable places, like the Nigerian cafeteria worker stating that American blacks were last on the list to marry.   Many people could find that offensive without really examining the dynamics. 
 

Dottie was in a bad place and vulnerable and lashed out at someone outside of her tribe.  Much in the same way that many in lower to middle America are feeling and blaming it on those people who come here and milk off our country (despite having a work ethic unlike most American-borns). 

Of course, that’s just my opinion and everyone’s will be different based on their life experiences.   I’m a first-generation African American and my mom and my aunts have worked in nursing homes for their entire working lives as nurses aides, and I have at least ten first cousins and my sister who are geriatric home care nurses.  They have heard stuff.  My sister generally ignores racist remarks (which are usually not directed at her and are usually of the causally racist variety) but doesn’t tolerate when patients will bark orders at her, which some crotchety patients will do.  After telling them they will not  speak to her that way they never do again. 

IMO, Dottie’s statement is is not unforgivable.  She sincerely apologized and has changed her  behavior, so I would be hard pressed to not forgive.  (And I say that as someone who still holds grudges for people who have neither apologized correctly or changed behavior).  But of course, everyone’s mileage may vary.  

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Also I have watched probably 40 or so episodes of Two and a Half Men (not a big fan) most episodes of BBT (which I sometimes hate watch since I don’t like the leads but love the secondary characters).   I had low expectations for Mom, and wondered what the hell Allison Janney was thinking.  But the writers of that show have done an excellent job portraying strong yet fragile and flawed women supporting themselves through life and alcohol addiction.  That show is great.  Bob and Abishola is not there yet but it took Mom a few seasons too. 

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On 11/20/2019 at 9:07 PM, sd dude said:

In relation to my last post, I guess I am challenging that claim. Is there truly anything that cannot be forgiven? Since the question can only be answered by the victim in any particular situation, and forgiveness first and foremost is an opportunity for the victim to heal spiritually and emotionally from their trauma, I sure hope for the sake of victims everywhere that anything and everything is forgivable.

I can only answer your question from my perspective.  For me, yes some things are absolutely unforgivable.  I'm not one of those people who believes forgiveness is a requirement for spiritual and emotional healing, and I'm certainly not in the business of absolution.   If someone does something to me that I personally deem unforgivable, I remove that person from my life and go on about my business.  If other people choose to forgive anything and everything a person does to them, that's certainly their prerogative.

As for your other post about Dottie now "tolerating" Abishola, this is a rather complicated topic that I simply can't give justice to on a forum like this.  But I will tell you that just because someone learns to "tolerate" a Black person (or immigrant, or gay person, or any other person from a group that they generally view negatively), that doesn't mean they're no longer racist, xenophobic, homophobic, etc.  This is a very common misconception.  People have a way of justifying their choices in their own minds, so a racist person may very well end up tolerating a Black caregiver, or their kid's Black girlfriend/boyfriend because they make an exception for that particular person.  No, it doesn't make logical sense, but racism isn't based on logic or facts.  This is when you start to hear people say things like, "You're one of the good ones," or "You're not like the rest of them."  Hell, racist people even have sexual relationships with people from races they hate or view as inferior.  Slave owners had sex with (raped) the people they enslaved all the time.  Strom Thurmond was one of the most repulsive racists in our country's government, yet he had a daughter by a Black woman (really a girl because she was just 16 and he was in his 20s) who worked for his parents.  He never once publicly claimed the daughter while he was alive, but he paid her way through college and the daughter kept the secret until after his death.  Like I said, it's too much to fully go into here, but I would encourage those of you who really think a person can't be racist because they tolerate or have relationships with some Black people here and there, to seriously educate yourselves on the matter.  There's plenty of research out there on these issues. 

So just because Dottie is now being civil towards Abishola, that means absolutely nothing about whether she's racist or not, or whether she really meant the things she said.  It could simply mean, as I mentioned before, that the show has decided to pretend she never made her tirade in the first place.  This is a Chuck Lorre comedy, which isn't exactly known for consistency with its characters. 

I do wish those of you who keep using the stroke as an excuse would just stop it.  I've said this before and I'll say it again, a stroke can make a person lose their inhibitions, which simply means they no longer censor themselves and may now say things that they otherwise would have enough sense to keep to themselves.  But a stroke does not make you say things that weren't already in your mind in some way.  It just exposes what was already there.

Edited by TheLotusFlower
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On 11/19/2019 at 12:57 PM, Boofish said:

Depends. For someone with means like this family medicare would cover very very little. I have friend whose parents need full time care and medicare refused because they owned property and had a car payment. 

Basic Medicare is something everyone gets at a certain age. They  cover very little though , you mean Medicaid most likely. You have to be practically homeless for Medicaid to cover anything. A big problem with the aging population in this country. 

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