S10.E07: Open Your Eyes

[tennisgurl]

That was a decently spooky episode, but I am sad that Saddiq is gone now. Poor guy suffered so much, and then got killed by his weird new friend, who is actually an undercover Whisper! I always thought there was something off about that guy! Saddiq is such a good guy that even Dante was sad to kill him.  Now Dante is the only doctor, so he can do whatever he wants, and go anywhere in any settlement. Whats going on with the water now? Thats something that certainly needs fixing!

Daryl and Dog being a good boy is always welcome. I hope he gets more to do then be Carols sidekick soon though. Look at all those fucks Carol gives y'all. Oh wait, there are zero of them, not even one fuck. 

It is nice to see that the council is working and that the communities are working together and not torturing prisoners and the like. Its less nice to see how crap their security seems to still be! 

[heisenberg]

10 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Two decent episodes in o row, let’s see if they blow the finale with a silly cliffhanger.

Whether the handle is in drinkable or undrinkable, doesn’t the water come out of the same taps? 

Siddick talked about Eugene doing the distillation process on one side if I remember correctly.

[heisenberg]

4 hours ago, BravoAddict72 said:

Except Vincent D'Onofrio is one of the sexist men to have ever been on television. I never found his character annoying. Alpha is so annoying. I still don't know why so many people are afraid of her. Her and Beta should have been taken out the first time they met her.

I think Alpha is more of a cartoonish version of Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now.

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

That was a decently spooky episode, but I am sad that Saddiq is gone now. Poor guy suffered so much, and then got killed by his weird new friend, who is actually an undercover Whisper! I always thought there was something off about that guy! Saddiq is such a good guy that even Dante was sad to kill him.  Now Dante is the only doctor, so he can do whatever he wants, and go anywhere in any settlement. Whats going on with the water now? Thats something that certainly needs fixing!

It will finally be a good thing that doctors don't last long in this show...  I hope.

[whyamiwatchingthis]

Well, wonders never cease, the episode actually made sense for the most part and was more genuinely suspenseful than the show has been in a while.

I suspected water was making them sick, but thought perhaps it was the doing of Gamma cutting open that walker in the river the other week and somehow poisoning the main water supply from which their community obtained their water. The drinkable/undrinkable taps explanation was interesting, but as someone already pointed out, the explanation of the two taps wasn't exactly iron clad. It was also a little odd that other than sweating, Siddiq didn't seem to become as physically ill from the water as others, unless we are to believe that he somehow didn't drink it. I didn't see the trailer for next week's episode, but his death under the circumstances should be viewed as highly suspicious by the others, so it would be hard to swallow (no pun intended) if the water charade were to last too much longer without anyone else noticing.

What I didn't buy was that Lydia, whom I perceive to be one of the more self-aware characters at this point, would run off and take her chances with the Whisperers again (if that's where she was going). If she got that Carol was using her because her survival proved that mother dearest broke her promise to the other Whisperers, surely it would be more than apparent that her return at this point would not be welcomed by Alpha.

Edited November 19, 2019 by whyamiwatchingthis

[Samwise979]

Maybe Siddiq didn't get sick from the water because he was drinking the same water as Dante. I assume Dante would have a clean supply for himself. 

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Daryl and Dog being a good boy is always welcome.

Okay, I need to clarify: Daryl enters that lovely house, but he lives in some grotty utility room(?) in the basement?

5 hours ago, BravoAddict72 said:

Alpha is so annoying. I still don't know why so many people are afraid of her. Her and Beta should have been taken out the first time they met her.

Seriously. You'd think the idiots listening to her annoying whine, watch her throwing babies to the walkers, and getting whipped would just one day say, "Oh, fuck you, bitch," and take her out, no matter how cultish everyone is. They see other people living like human beings in real houses, with food and everything, yet they prefer to bow down to this ridiculous dumpy little woman? I can understand the kids who have never known anything else, but the adults? Why?

1 hour ago, heisenberg said:

I think Alpha is more of a cartoonish version of Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now.

More like Marlon Brando in "The Island of Dr. Moreau", IMO.

[rmontro]

Alpha is so ugly apparently she doesn't even need to wear a mask anymore, and the zombies still leave her alone.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Alpha is so ugly apparently she doesn't even need to wear a mask anymore, and the zombies still leave her alone.

That sounds like the punchline to some old "How ugly was she/he?" joke. 😂

In Saddiq's flashbacks there was so much screaming I can't believe no one at the faire heard it. Just how far did Elpha's gang drag the captives after they snatched, subdued and leisurely killed them with no one noticing or hearing a thing? Odd.

[The Mighty Peanut]

11 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

That sounds like the punchline to some old "How ugly was she/he?" joke. 😂

In Saddiq's flashbacks there was so much screaming I can't believe no one at the faire heard it. Just how far did Elpha's gang drag the captives after they snatched, subdued and leisurely killed them with no one noticing or hearing a thing? Odd.

I mean this is the same group of people who didn't notice a new doctor no one had ever seen before took up practice in the middle of town square, right after the old medical assistant was murdered unexpectedly vacated her position. Now that we've seen the flashbacks, I think he may have replaced her literally right after she was killed.  Cut her head off at the neck and stole the stethoscope that had been hanging on it. There's probably still blood on it and no one noticed, knowing these people. Meanwhile the band teacher still gets the side eye. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by The Mighty Peanut

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I mean this is the same group of people who didn't notice a new doctor no one had ever seen before took up practice in the middle of town square, right after the old medical assistant was murdered unexpectedly vacated her position.

Silly me. Of course, you're right. I fogot that these are also the people, except for Judith, who saw nothing and heard nothing as desperado Negan walked into Michonne's house and right up in to Judith's bedroom then wandered around the street all night and into the next day after his Great Escape.

4 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I think he may have replaced her literally right after she was killed.  Cut her head off at the neck and stole the stethoscope that had been hanging on it. There's probably still blood on it and no one noticed, knowing these people.

😂😄 That is a distinct possibility.

Edited November 20, 2019 by AngelaHunter
added something

[Nutjob]

So, maybe I'm the only one who got annoyed by this, but...

When Siddiq was spilling his guts to Rosita, why on earth didn't she bring up the fact that she watched Glenn and Abraham get brained by Negan right in front of her and also was not able to do a blasted thing about it? If nothing else, they could've played it for empathy's sake, because she had in fact been EXACTLY in Siddiq's shoes, and it's like they conveniently forgot. SO ANNOYING.

[Iguessnot]

On rewatch, I see that Siddiq tried to drown himself after the hemlock episode, not after noticing the sabotage water lever. However after discovering the water issue, we don't know if everyone else was told besides Dante who tries to relieve Siddiq of his guilt. 

Unless Siddiq actively remembers bending the lever (man of steel?) why would he just blame himself instead of raising alarms? Even his tussle with Dante was based on recovered memories, nothing to do with the water. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Saddiq seemed a generically nice enough guy for all that he made his entrance getting Carl killed over his freeing walker souls nonsense and there was probably still plenty more that could have done with him as he was one of the few immediately recognizable of the newer crop of characters, but that's that.

The show seems determined to kill off every character I know the name of. It's like they just want all new characters nobody cares about. I don't get it.

Did we already know that Siddiq was with Enid, Tara, Henry and everyone else who got spiked? I don't remember how they were captured or why he got away.

Quote

Still laughing at Daryl's big shirtless scene that of course was with a dog.  

Also, did the show ever explain what that number is on his back? Didn't Michonne have one too?

[The Mighty Peanut]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Also, did the show ever explain what that number is on his back? Didn't Michonne have one too?

Yeah, the scars denote that Michonne and Daryl were targets to be eliminated by the enemy-group-of-the-moment we saw only in flashback. Michonne's old friend Jocelyn went crazy for...reasons...and attempted to hunt them down and kill them. Michonne had to kill elementary school-aged children to get Judith back and the resulting PTSD caused her to close the gates to Alexandria, and Daryl to go off on his lone wolf (plus Dog) adventures. 

Or something like that. I watched this while I was recovering from surgery and there's a 100% chance I was under heavy painkillers, but the gist is correct. 

[Tallulah7606]

I’m glad i read this thread, I wasn’t actually aware Saddiq was dead, I completely lost interest about halfway through-the show just doesn’t hold my attention anymore. Too much time is spent focussing on Alpha (and that RIDICULOUS caricature accent) and side characters that nobody cares about. I’m a hairs breadth away from giving up altogether on this show. I’m aware it has to evolve over time, but it’s like the show has been completely rewritten into something else entirely, there’s no suspense anymore, it’s lost it’s darkness

[nodorothyparker]

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Did we already know that Siddiq was with Enid, Tara, Henry and everyone else who got spiked? I don't remember how they were captured or why he got away.

Yes, the crew that found the pikes also found him left bloodied nearby.  At the time, he said basically that he had been captured with all them but was left alive to bear witness.  He ended the piking episode with a long speech about how brave they were, how they fought to the end, blah blah blah.  It was a nice enough speech, but I remember thinking at the time that it should have waited until the followup episode, that ending on the piking reveal would have made for a stronger finish reminiscent of some of the show's more classic bleak enders like Sophia coming out of the barn. 

Because of all the isolationism that had been going on between the communities since the Jocelyn and the feral children incident at Alexandria, the Whisperers were able to pass themselves off as more recent Alexandria arrivals and infiltrate the big fair at the Kingdom.   We're left to conjecture from there how they were able to grab and spirit away a near dozen people, with most of them being teenagers or other noncombatants.

[AngelaHunter]

On 11/22/2019 at 7:42 AM, nodorothyparker said:

We're left to conjecture from there how they were able to grab and spirit away a near dozen people, with most of them being teenagers or other noncombatants.

...and at least three big, strong, grown men, (Siddiq, DJ, the Highwayman - were there others?)and do all that in this small, enclosed place with people everywhere yet no one hearing or seeing a thing. That's some steath Ninja raid. Maybe there is a plausible explanation, but I'm coming up blank and now with Siddiq and his PTSD gone, I guess it will all be swept under the rug.

[nodorothyparker]

DJ and the two Highwaymen were not part of the original group taken though.  They were out in the woods investigating the opening scene carnage of the Hilltop couple's murders (how Alpha got the dress and hair she was wearing throughout most of the episode) when they met up with Daryl, Carol, and Michonne also out investigating and like any good Scooby gang mystery decided to split up again soon after rather than go for strength in numbers.  Siddiq tells us they stumbled upon the barn massacre already underway and tried to mount a rescue but were overpowered.  Siddiq was apparently already being held by Dante at that point.  So three guys against all the Whisperers where the rest of the victims were already either dying or being restrained.

I don't know why I remember all this except that I spent a bit of time after the episode originally aired trying to suss it all out to see if I could fanwank a way it made sense.  When you realize nearly everybody else taken was either a teenager or a noncombatant after living through several years of relative peace, I could sort of see it.  At least enough that I could accept it as presented without expending any more mental energy on it, which is my usual threshold for what I'm willing to go with in this franchise.

[mightysparrow]

On 11/21/2019 at 1:24 PM, The Mighty Peanut said:

Yeah, the scars denote that Michonne and Daryl were targets to be eliminated by the enemy-group-of-the-moment we saw only in flashback. Michonne's old friend Jocelyn went crazy for...reasons...and attempted to hunt them down and kill them. Michonne had to kill elementary school-aged children to get Judith back and the resulting PTSD caused her to close the gates to Alexandria, and Daryl to go off on his lone wolf (plus Dog) adventures. 

Or something like that. I watched this while I was recovering from surgery and there's a 100% chance I was under heavy painkillers, but the gist is correct. 

I WISH I had been medicated while watching this season.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

I don't know why I remember all this except that I spent a bit of time after the episode originally aired trying to suss it all out to see if I could fanwank a way it made sense. 

Wow. I have no recall of all you just outlined. 👍 It seems not only is my memory in the pits, but my comprehension as well as I sit watching this with glazed eyes and wandering mind.

The only part I do remember is Alpha in the perfectly cut, non-bleeding blond scalp she slapped on her bald pate.

On 11/21/2019 at 6:45 AM, icemiser69 said:

I'm waiting for the episode where they dig a hole by some redshirt's backdoor. That redshirt walks out his/her backdoor and falls into the empty hole knocking him/her self out in the process.  Some dumbass then throws a dead body in the hole, not realizing that redshirt is in the bottom of the hole.  Then said dumbass fills the hole with dirt.   Weeks/months go by and the Alexandrian's still don't know what happened to the redshirt.  Assuming they remember that redshirt ever existed.

That would be good. Better than everyone falling in a hole.

[LadyMustang65]

On 11/18/2019 at 10:09 AM, AngelaHunter said:

That reminds me - why would a doctor carry hemlock?

From webmd:

Despite serious safety concerns, hemlock leaves, root, and seeds are used to make medicine. It is used for breathing problems including bronchitis, whooping cough, and asthma; and for painful conditions including teething in children, swollen and painful joints, and cramps. Hemlock is also used for anxiety and mania.

[TipseyGirl]

On 11/19/2019 at 7:39 AM, The Mighty Peanut said:

I finally figured out who Alpha reminds me of. A soft-spoken Foghorn Leghorn. I do, I say, I say, I do duh-clayhr the day-ud ah ou-uh guooardians. 

I ❤️ U

[rab01]

On 11/21/2019 at 6:45 AM, icemiser69 said:

So in Alexandria I guess they just find any patch of land, dig a hole and dump in a dead body.

Dante seemed to be just burying that woman's body in some random spot.  No graveyard.   Shouldn't all of the communities be burying their dead outside of their communities in one area for each community? 

I think that was their communal graveyard.  They pulled to an overhead shot that had bunch of rectangular patches in the grass about the size of graves.  In an earlier episode, they showed Michonne visiting Carl's grave and only some graves had markers and even those were small.

I just caught up to this episode and am wondering about how that guy infiltrated Alexandria and assume we'll get a the backstory before he dies - no need to spoil me, I'll get there soon 😉    I like that they gave us enough clues as to the Whisperers plan and that it was one with enough deniability to possibly be accidental.  The show seems to be suggesting that Alpha isn't any more certain that she can destroy the communities than they are certain they can destroy her horde.  That's a huge improvement over two years of dick-measuring with Negan.

I also like Carol doing things that make sense to her but aren't necessarily correct or moral and that other people call her out on it and try to do things with which she disagrees but that doesn't make people cartoonishly good or bad.   

The show's honestly gotten better under Kang.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 11/18/2019 at 7:41 AM, rmontro said:

Siddiq was going through some screwy stuff and he was obviously a nutcase.  When Dante came to check on him, I was really afraid that Siddiq was going to kill Dante because he was so unstable (Siddiq, that is).  Then Dante said "Open your eyes" which were trigger words for Siddiq, and that set him off his rocker.  So he started eyeing the chair to bash Dante with, but Dante saw it and intervened to stop it.  Dante put the crazed Siddiq in a hold and tried to calm him down with "Close your eyes".  End show.  

Then Talking Dead came on and explained that really, Dante was a Whisperer spy, which is why Siddiq has had reservations about him, and he killed Siddiq!  I didn't even know that Siddiq was dead lol!  Am I really that stupid?

I think that Dante was one of the whisperers was made pretty clear. How that makes sense? No idea. Seems like all of the whisperers are one good meal away from changing sides. Also he'd know that Alpha lied about Lydia.

Your confusing about Siddiq being dead might have to do with the fact that on TV everybody dies after being choked for a few seconds, when in reality that takes multiple minutes.

On 11/18/2019 at 4:41 PM, Bad Example said:

Lydia was just being an overly dramatic teenager.  She said she wanted to help.  The way she helped was showing Gamma she was alive.  But no, that wasn't what Lydia meant, so she is feeling wronged.  

Well a version of what the writers think a teenager would act like. I doubt any teen who has been through what she's been through would have any misgivings with exposing her mother. Then again, I also question why Carol didn't just tell her that was going on.

[rmontro]

58 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I think that Dante was one of the whisperers was made pretty clear. How that makes sense? No idea.

My confusion probably came from the fact that I don't care who half these people are (or were).   So that's on me, I guess.