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S28.E10: Semi-Finals

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Yeah, I don't see how they wouldn't have. I know the audience was less likely to be informed, but I assume the judges would have been let in on what happened. They didn't seem surprised when everyone else found out.

I know this is a producer-driven show, but I was also wondering if the judges didn't know during the first round. Even if they were told to score James low, I just can't imagine Carrie Ann talking about things like James's broken posture if she knew what had happened with the baby.

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12 minutes ago, Jsage said:

I know this is a producer-driven show, but I was also wondering if the judges didn't know during the first round. Even if they were told to score James low, I just can't imagine Carrie Ann talking about things like James's broken posture if she knew what had happened with the baby.

Why not? She and Len aren't very nice. Bruno, yeah, I don't see him kicking someone when they are down. Then again, they are employees of the show and have to do what they are told. Come to think of it, Len is much nicer on the British version of the show.

They should just do away with the judge's save. Their bottom line is ratings, so why would they keep someone people don't want to watch? I like Ally, but if she was on the bottom three times, she should have gone by now.

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14 hours ago, marykat71702 said:

Since James is no longer in the running, I am now rooting for Kel to win, even though he annoyed me a little tonight with the whole gun violence thing. Let's call it what it was-gang violence...

Kel said it right, to get the message across on broader scale we need to end gun violence so it want be any room for gangs of any sort, because gun violence is greatly associated with gangs. So whethers it gang or mass shooting taken in a school or church, its all gun violence infused by hate and anger of individual or individuals.

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My theory is that the producers and judges decided a long time ago they didn't want James to win. They've been critical and hard on him this whole season no matter how fun and crowd pleasing his dances were, and their negativity eventually affects the voting for him too, as his voting bloc was more organic and less organized than say, Hannah's.  Maybe they would have cleared the path for James to at least make it to top 3 but his personal family tragedy this late in the season made it imperative that they put him at the bottom of the leaderboard, making it easier for him to be in the bottom two and unanimously voted off. Cold-blooded. But why? Fear of his likability and talent boosted by an outpouring of sympathy for his tragedy via an overwhelming amount sympathy votes would off-set the judges many attempts to de-pimp him and lead to a win for him. IMO they want Hannah or Ally to win, no one else. When James became a threat to that, they cut him off. 

James, Emma and James's wife have all confirmed it was a shock so no, he did not ask the producers to get him off the show.

Edited by Crystalline

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As much as it pains me to say so, I’m not sure I think the judges should consider how many times a couple has been in the bottom two. I feel that, once the public has spoken and contributed to who is subject to the judges’ choice, that’s their input and then it’s back out of their hands from then on. If the show must go out of its way to have this twist, I think it should be as “pure” as possible, if that makes sense. Of course, this means I think the “there are no rules, just consider the whole season and tell us how you feel” approach falls down as it is.

I like the way the British version handles it. The bottom two reprise their dance, and the judges have a specific mandate: to consider that performance only and decide which was better. It's apples to oranges sometimes, and in the early phases it can be a pit of a pain to see two of the worst dances again, but I think it is a fair system and compelling TV. Sometimes the same dancer appears there several times before leaving, but that can result in a sort of "wow, he snatched victory from the jaws of defeat!" for me, even as others say "damn, it's clear we want him gone, they should get rid of him."  Opinion seems divided there.

To be fair, they also have that system because they want to fill a results show on a separate night, which we no longer have. It usually is about 10min from the start of the dance-off to the farewell speech to the closing credits, so I think it could be adapted for our show. But maybe it's all more trouble than it's worth and they should just go back to revealing the bottom two and eliminating the bottom one. IF the show gets another season, etc etc.

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15 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

What if Ally's third time had been last week against Spicer? Would you still have wanted her to go?

I'll answer and say, in hindsight considering what happened this week, yeah. I was already getting tired of the judges' favoritism toward Ally, even before last week, so it would have sucked to still have Sean there, but I wouldn't have missed Ally especially since the majority of viewers (who vote at least) keep repeatedly signaling they're just not that into her.

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On 11/19/2019 at 12:04 PM, lavenderblue said:

 This was the first ep of the season where I voted, and I went in planning to give all ten to Kel, assuming he was most at risk. It wasn't until James received his second set of low scores that I began to worry, and shifted to half and half for each -- still figuring, well, who's to say which one's in worse shape?

20 hours ago, Riplet68 said:

In case you didn’t know; texting and on ABC site, you can give 10 votes to as many people as you want.  Until last week, I was dividing my text vote, last week and this week I gave 10 votes each to James, Kel and Hannah

These quotes renew my concerns that the show has not explained the new voting system well. Allowing voters to support multiple contestants per voting method without splitting their votes was the most important change this season, imho. It compensates for fewer viewers/voters. It also shifts power away from voting blocs.

The bottom two reveal has received more attention than the new voting system, because it creates drama. It also makes it easier (but more obvious) for TPTB to force results. I'd be OK if they go back to eliminating the bottom one, provided they keep the new voting system. It's possible that we would lose Ally or Kel early, and Sean would make finals. However, I'd like to believe that the latter could be averted by expanding the voting window just enough to include the West Coast--but not so long as to disproportionately accommodate voting blocs--and better explaining the new voting system.

The final four are probably the ones they expected preseason. The goal always seemed to be forcing a female winner, imho. It was noted that the three youngest females (before Christie dropped out) were in their 20's, with presumably large built-in voting blocs. Meanwhile, the males were 40+ by season's end, save for Karamo who just turned 39. I imagine TPTB were surprised that Ally didn't have similar voting support as Normani (who was probably helped by the longer voting period), and that James presented a serious challenge to the younger females. I think they wanted Kel in the finals for diversity, especially after DeMarcus and Juan Pablo were eliminated earlier than expected last season. (Same with Ally, perhaps?) From their perspective--and their scoring--Lauren and James appear to have become expendable. They may have anticipated saving Ally or James over Lauren, but the Bones/Country bloc rallied Lauren out of the bottom two.

I'm in the group that thinks Hannah was their preferred preseason winner. Which makes me wish she was with Keo or Artem. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of either, I would feel like they had earned it more than Alan. (Heck, I was pulling for Keo with Evanna last year.) Alan has been relatively "lucky" with his partners on this show. Debbie Gibson was pleasant, committed, and eliminated before physical limitations became too challenging. Mirai was a preseason favorite. Alexis had dance experience. Hannah had dance experience and the Bachelor Nation voting bloc. Both Alexis and Hannah were showmance bait. Although Alan was coerced into awkwardly playing along with Alexis, their reward was making the finals. Luckily, Hannah's popular enough to be spared the showmance.

Though admittedly not fair, but I'm not excited about a Hannah win because a) I've been feeling anti-voter bloc all season, b) her win feels somewhat preordained, and c) while it's obvious that the show needs male pro stars, handing an MBT to Alan because he's their best option only reminds me what a terrible job the show did developing pros during the Rob Wade / Mandy Moore era. (Among their bad decisions: Passing on Pasha & Daniella, per interviews with Kristyn Burtt.) FWIW, Alan probably is their best option in that he's young, amiable, accommodating, and capable enough...but he's not a big reason Hannah will probably win, imho.

I'll be voting for Kel, whom I've enjoyed the most among the remaining contestants. And I may throw a few votes to Ally, to offset the Bachelor Nation and Bones Country blocs. (i.e. Cautiously throwing extra votes in the pool, to dilute voting bloc percentages.) I'm not expecting a Kel win, but I'd be happy to see it.

Edited by RomanKat
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I really would love for kel to win but I would be happy for Ally too because I would be estatic for Sasha to take home his first mirrorball, it will be win win for him and Emma since what happen to James and her. To see her hubby take home his first mirrorball would makeup their departure.

Im just not really a fan of Hannah nor Lauren, I can tolerate Hannah maybe a bit more. Lauren seems sweet but the fact that Bobby Bone is pushing her makes just want her take 4th place so badly.

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I was also shocked to see James eliminated. He was my pick for the win! So sad for him and his family...I can’t even imagine.

At least there’s nobody truly terrible in the finals. Pulling for Kel and Ally, but a Hannah win wouldn’t surprise me. Lauren is the weakest of the four left but I think she has a lot of viewer love, she’s likable, and it wouldn’t be a Bobby Bones travesty for her to win.

Edited by Sister Havana
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My comments are based on watching the dances, scores, the judging of James' first dance, and his foxtrot rehearsal package.  Haven't read all the comments so sorry if something else was revealed this week.  After watching James' first dance, I had to rewind for the judges' comments because I knew something was off.  Then Tom alluded something about James' week and I was thinking NO!!  So I had to watch his foxtrot rehearsal and I was just balling for him and his family.  I wanted James to win since he had good technique and acting/performance ability.  However, his priorities changed.  I don't think he asked to be taken out of the show but it's for the best.  His wife is in the hospital and his family needs him right now.  This is just a silly dance show.  I did wonder if the judges knew what happened during the judging of his first dance.  If they did, they were harsh.  Of course, he was off this week.

I've read some of the forum comments on Hannah.  I agreed with CAI that she was too pageanty when she originally performed.  However, CAI took it to a personal level during judging.  She didn't need to analyze her personality.  Then I think Alan made it worse a few weeks ago because Erin asked him on the spot for his opinion on CAI's comment.  So he started talking about Hannah's doubts and self esteem.  Also, I do think the judges have nit-picked her dancing.  For instance tonight, Kel got all 10s for his contemporary while Hannah got all 9s.  I could tell that Kel was emotional during his contemporary.  But he's not a good contemporary mover so he's not very flowy/graceful.  Compare him to somebody like Karamo who wasn't the best ballroom dancer but he did get the flowy contemporary movement in his contemporary.  Kel is a hip-hop dancer so he's great when Witney adds flash/jazz/hip-hop to his dances.  I mostly saw a lot of lifts in Kel's contemporary while Witney did a lot of the pretty moves.  In comparison, Hannah did as much work in the contemporary as Alan did.  It wasn't perfect/clean but if you're going to give Kel all 10s then Hannah should receive them too.

I think it was sweet that Ally wanted to give her spot to James.  I think DWTS should be like SYTYCD when it comes to judges' save.  The judges pick in SYTYCD but they stop before the finals.  So it's up to the audience to decide who makes it to the finals.  Also, I noticed that Nigel lets a person go if they hit the bottom three times.  Even if a person is a really good dancer, if they keep hitting the bottom, then they are not resonating with the audience.  That should have applied in this case too since Ally hit the bottom three times.

Just like the semi-finals, everyone left is good.  I wanted James to win but that's not an option anymore.  I prefer that Lauren doesn't win because she's the weakest one left and I don't like Gleb.  She's a decent dancer though so it's still better than last year.

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On 11/20/2019 at 1:46 AM, calipiano81 said:

What if Ally's third time had been last week against Spicer? Would you still have wanted her to go?

Well, hell, that's a good point. Double elimination, maybe?

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8 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

All the dancers left are good, but the pros who remain are nothing special. Too bad we don't have a Val/Cheryl/Derek showdown.

Val is hit and miss with freestyles so im good. Cheryl had awesome freestyles in the beginning of her earlier seasons but she can be hit and miss now too. Derek is the only one that is freestyle genius. Im pretty sure Sasha and Whitney will give good choreography to their partners, not sure about Alan or Gleb.

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2 hours ago, marykat71702 said:

Well, hell, that's a good point. Double elimination, maybe?

Speaking of double elimination; how did we get through this season without one? Is no double elimination the reason we have a four person finale?

Edited by luvthepros

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Val is hit and miss with freestyles so im good. Cheryl had awesome freestyles in the beginning of her earlier seasons but she can be hit and miss now too. Derek is the only one that is freestyle genius. Im pretty sure Sasha and Whitney will give good choreography to their partners, not sure about Alan or Gleb.

Lindsay is also a great freestyle choreographer.

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7 hours ago, luvthepros said:

Speaking of double elimination; how did we get through this season without one? Is no double elimination the reason we have a four person finale?

Must be because remember they didn't eliminate anyone on Disney week, so at some point there should've been one.

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5 hours ago, Jsage said:

Lindsay is also a great freestyle choreographer.

Yes, she is another one.

12 hours ago, luvthepros said:

Speaking of double elimination; how did we get through this season without one? Is no double elimination the reason we have a four person finale?

It was a four person finale last season: Milo, Alexis, Evanna and Bobby.

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DWTS varies from season to season about how many are in the finale. There have been some fourth place finishers I wish had been in a finale for three. 

Mark has had interesting freestyles. I liked what he had with Lindsay Sterling. His Mario freestyle with Sadie Robertson was wild and fun. 

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19 hours ago, vdw84 said:

Im pretty sure Sasha and Whitney will give good choreography to their partners, not sure about Alan or Gleb.

All four have done freestyles before. Witney four times (Alfonso, Carlos, Frankie, Milo), with at least two MBT worthy efforts (Alfonso & Milo) imho. Sasha had a generally good response for the Tonya freestyle--with possible help from Emma, who's available now. Gleb and Alan, a strong lifter, both went contemporary with Jana and Alexis. FWIW, I preferred their Junior freestyles, but it's different to choreograph for kids.

It's been discussed that creative control of dances has been handed over to the new artistic director & team, but that pros still teach and choreograph. Wondering if that applies to freestyles?? (Also wondering if the change was partly to minimize creative disparities between female and male pros.) Witney seemed constrained earlier this season, but more confident in recent weeks. Meanwhile, Gleb may have benefited all season by not being left to his own devices. I haven't really discerned much difference in Sasha or Alan's work from previous seasons.

4 hours ago, vdw84 said:

It was a four person finale last season: Milo, Alexis, Evanna and Bobby.

The number of couples in semis and finals usually depends on ABC scheduling. I'd prefer three couples for a one night finale. OTOH, five couples better fills a two hour semi. Either a double elimination from five to three couples in the semis...or four couples with filler pro numbers/musical guests...to get a three couple finale makes sense, imho. Then again, four couples in the finale accommodates greater variety of participants, which must matter to TPTB. It leaves less time for returning celebrities, which may be unfortunate depending on who you'd like to see again. Here's hoping for return performances from Mary, Kate, and James.

Edited by RomanKat

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4 hours ago, babyhouseman said:

DWTS varies from season to season about how many are in the finale. There have been some fourth place finishers I wish had been in a finale for three. 

Mark has had interesting freestyles. I liked what he had with Lindsay Sterling. His Mario freestyle with Sadie Robertson was wild and fun. 

That freestyle Mark put together with Lindsay Sterling was insane and honestly thought it was going to win her the competition over Jordan because I didnt care for what Lindsay gave him, it looked too much like Allison gave riker for his freestyle. I feel like mark ballas and Lindsay sterling was a very underrrated couple, he cameup with some creative routines for them and I dont think they ever got the praise or recognition they deserved.

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Finally caught up watching this, and all I’ve got to say is WHAT THE HELL??? I cannot believe this happened! What utter bullshit in the judging on this stupid show! I really thought before this episode started that all had been righted now that Sean was gone. Guess I was wrong. The season is over for me without James. I wouldn’t have even minded if someone else had won as long as he made the finals but for him to be out in the semis just ruins the season for me. My heart breaks for his family. 

I know it might be insensitive to say so, but I thought Kel’s contemporary was not good - it was nothing but a bunch of lifts featuring Witney- there was very little dancing on his part. And I didn’t understand what the dancing had to do with his story. I thought Hannah’s contemporary was much more fluid and Alan asked more from her than Witney did from Kel. So of course he gets all tens and she gets nines. Seems par for the course.
 

I honestly do not know why the judges feel the need to prop up someone who clearly does not have the votes to win. Ally has been at the top of the judges leaderboard and STILL ends up in the bottom. She will never win unless there is more fuckery with the judges scores - maybe they will give her all tens and everyone else will get sixes - will that give the producers the ending they so clearly want???

 I don’t care who wins now. Kel, I guess? The other three beach wave blondes are interchangeable to me. I wish it had been Kate and James in the final. Blech. Another season ruined.

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10 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I know it might be insensitive to say so, but I thought Kel’s contemporary was not good - it was nothing but a bunch of lifts featuring Witney- there was very little dancing on his part. And I didn’t understand what the dancing had to do with his story. I thought Hannah’s contemporary was much more fluid and Alan asked more from her than Witney did from Kel. So of course he gets all tens and she gets nines. Seems par for the course.

I really wish they would do contemporay on dwts because neither of the judges know how to judge it, however although kel's contemporary wasnt technically better than Hannahs's, he still brought the emotion more than Hannah did. I do felt like she should have gotten atleast one or two 10s just for technical content alone but she didnt. She still needs to work on her connection more to the music, audience and alan. Its still a bit of disconnect.

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20 hours ago, vdw84 said:

I really wish they would do contemporay on dwts because neither of the judges know how to judge it, however although kel's contemporary wasnt technically better than Hannahs's, he still brought the emotion more than Hannah did. I do felt like she should have gotten atleast one or two 10s just for technical content alone but she didnt. She still needs to work on her connection more to the music, audience and alan. Its still a bit of disconnect.

I hear what you’re saying, but I felt the music was doing the heavy lifting in Kel’s routine. If he had a different song I’m not sure it would have been as emotional, and just on dancing alone, I thought Hannah was better, particularly the lifts. I wish Witney would have removed some of the lifts and let Kel do some dancing that conveyed his message more clearly. Overall though, I do agree that I wish they would drop contemporary. 

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1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

I hear what you’re saying, but I felt the music was doing the heavy lifting in Kel’s routine. If he had a different song I’m not sure it would have been as emotional, and just on dancing alone, I thought Hannah was better, particularly the lifts. I wish Witney would have removed some of the lifts and let Kel do some dancing that conveyed his message more clearly. Overall though, I do agree that I wish they would drop contemporary. 

Witney is young, she pro. had no idea how to incorporate what was needed to convey the message of gun violence for his dance. 

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I haven't watched the last 4 episodes at least and I won't be watching the finale.  I value my life too highly (and really, my standards aren't all that high, given I've been watching this damn show for 26 seasons) to waste it watching this dramatization of a reality show anymore.  I'll come here to read what you all thought and then get on with my life.  I'm so sad that it's come to this.

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22 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

dramatization of a reality show

I think this is the problem. It's a reality show, it's produced and manipulated, it always has been. But within limits. Now it's so overproduced and overmanipulated that it's really not even believable anymore.

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Information about the finale.

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/dwts-finale-song-choices-performers-and-everything-to-know/

Performers will be:

Cher - The Beat Goes On

Pitbull - 3 to Tango

Ne-Yo: Me Quedaré Contigo

Additionally, past eliminated celebrities from this season will return to dance to one final number.

ABC hasn't announced which celebrities will be returning.

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Want to vote early? 😉

https://tvline.com/2019/11/24/dancing-with-the-stars-winner-season-28-finale-predictions-poll/

14 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

Am I the only one who's just not excited about this finale tomorrow night? This whole season feels like such a farce.

You are not alone.

I will miss seeing James and Emma win in 'real'... however, they're the winners in my mind and that's the most only important place in my reality. JMO.

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22 minutes ago, Bliss said:

Want to vote early? 😉

https://tvline.com/2019/11/24/dancing-with-the-stars-winner-season-28-finale-predictions-poll/

You are not alone.

I will miss seeing James and Emma win in 'real'... however, they're the winners in my mind and that's the most only important place in my reality. JMO.

Same. I am curious to know which returning celebrities will be coming back though.

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This is such a shitty way to end the season.  James has been my pick all season to win.  Don't know wtf the judges were thinking.  Also don't know what the audience was thinking with keeping the insipid Hannah around.  I am so over all her whining and her tears.  Oh boo hoo.  I went on a fake tv show to find love, and it didn't happen.  Wah wah.  Yeah, lady, have you looked at the track records of those shows?  Out of a combined 37 seasons, only 8 couples are still together.  If you were stupid enough to think you'd find love, you deserve what happens to you.  Ugh.  What will it take to finally make you go away?  At this point I'm really hoping for a Kel win.  Ally would be my second choice.  Still can't stand Gleb and don't want to see him get a mirror ball. And can't stand Hannah.  Her 15 minutes of fame expired hours ago.

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18 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

Am I the only one who's just not excited about this finale tomorrow night? This whole season feels like such a farce.

Definitely not alone. The season became a bust for me with the elimination of James. I just do not enjoy any of the people left.

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38 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Definitely not alone. The season became a bust for me with the elimination of James. I just do not enjoy any of the people left.

I also wanted James to win.  At this point, I'm just hoping that his wife is doing fine.  If James is not at the finale, then that means everything is not o.k. at home.  I don't know if his wife is well enough to be on the show but if we see her, then that's even better news.

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