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S39.E08: We Made it to the Merge!

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15 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I totally agree.........  I'm an (older) Millennial and I worked in an office for 3 years where most of the employees were male Gen X and Boomers.  I was in my 20s.  Nobody ever did that at work - EVER.   In fact, the most harassment/issues with boundaries I've had have been with men my own age.  It's not a generational thing - at ALL.  Dan is Gen X.  How is Gen X a touchy feely generation.  LOL.  

I agree.  I am early Gen X, and older than Dan, and my generation was brought up telling men to keep their hands to themselves.

Honestly, while there are exceptions, I think what sexual harassment is has been pretty well understood since around the early 90s.   Practically all companies have had rather clear sexual harassment policies since then.  While some high powered executives might think they are above the law, and a few low level morons might be too stupid to understand the law, the vast majority of men know what lines they cannot cross and are afraid of even unintentionally crossing them.   Most men have been afraid to even say stuff like  "That's a lovely dress you are wearing.", in the office,  for the past 30 years.  

The last bastions of rampant, wanton, sexual harassment seem to be in the entertainment and news media and those industries seem to be finally be dealing with it, due to pubic outcry.  

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I was impressed with Janet when she arrived having practiced fire-making, but now I’m all in. Doubtful she’ll make it to the end but I’ll be pulling for her.  

If Aaron’s meatheadedness at TC wasn’t enough to get some to turn on him then hopefully his performance in the two physical challenges will be. 

At first I was put off by Jamal’s silent exit but figured it was more of a “I’m so done with (most of) you people” than a jerk move. 

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1 minute ago, amazingracefan said:

She wasn't voting him out.  If you are making a big move and have two idols it likely makes sense to play one of them just in case your plan has backfired.

Yes, but setting aside the game...real world stuff, because these are still human beings. You tell multiple people someone has been touching you in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable. They validate your feelings by confirming that he's done the same to them. Of course you think they will have your back, no?

I guess I'm not surprised, just disappointed.

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2 hours ago, DEL901 said:

There was an article/meme about Keanu Reeves that made it all the way to CNN.com showing photos of him with his arms around women/fans to take photos and while his arms touched them, his hands were bent back at the wrists so as not to come in contact with them. 

Keanu Reeves is a precious angel and if they ever perfect human cloning I'm ordering 20 of him.

32 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Damn, there was just so much potential for good stuff happening this episode and it all went awry. 

I know, right?  I was thinking how awesome it was going to be to watch Kellee and Missy, two savvy players, go up against each other for the rest of the season,  then Kellee didn't play her idol (WTF??) and it all went to shit.

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19 minutes ago, lostmydamnmind said:

I can only imagine Kelle didn't play either idol because WTF wouldn't everyone else vote out a guy that multiple women accused of inappropriately touching them? As cynical as I may be, and having watched most seasons of this show, I'd have probably assumed the same.

That was probably her thinking. But, still.  Her name was out there, and she had two idols.   Play one.  Also, she knew Jamal and Janet had doubts about her after Noura ratted her at and and obviously Noura is a flake and loose cannon.   She really didn't have solid reason to trust her alliance not to turn on her. Certainly not enough to hold onto 2 idols.  

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I wonder if Elizabeth and Missy had any idea of the backlash they would receive! The editing did not hide that they willingly used “sexual harassment” as a game piece! Disgusting. 
They are just as bad as Dan. 

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3 minutes ago, HighwayFlower said:

I wonder if Elizabeth and Missy had any idea of the backlash they would receive!

Elizabeth's twitter post announcing last night's episode was a picture of the merge flag and something like "a beautiful name for our new merged tribe."  So yeah, I think she was pretty clueless.

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10 minutes ago, Special K said:

Elizabeth's twitter post announcing last night's episode was a picture of the merge flag and something like "a beautiful name for our new merged tribe."  So yeah, I think she was pretty clueless.

Per usual.

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13 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

And I'm mad at the women because they caved - they felt that speaking up would jeopardize their success at the game, so it was better to deny anything they said and make Janet and Kellee the goats.

...........

Jamal should have hidden that message somewhere in camp, then no one would have known it came from him.

Addressing two of your points here.

1) Did it not occur to them that instead of taking the route they did, it would have been easier to just... vote Dan out?

2) Jamal blew it with the message he came up with.  He should have written something along the lines of what happened to him - "Congratulations, you just lost your vote in the next TC."  The player who found it may or may not have believed it, but there's a good chance they would have.  That would have been funny to see, too, someone writing down "No Vote" when they didn't have to.

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11 minutes ago, Special K said:

Elizabeth's twitter post announcing last night's episode was a picture of the merge flag and something like "a beautiful name for our new merged tribe."  So yeah, I think she was pretty clueless.

I assume Elizabeth and Missy didn't know the episode would expose the truth about how horrible they are.   

Missy was even more clueless on Twitter.  On Monday, she put a picture of herself in the Obama "Hope" poster style, with "DOPE" written across it.    

I guess only Feely Dan has the cockroach like survival instincts to crawl under the fridge and hide when he's been exposed.   He made his Twitter account private. 

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2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Missy was even more clueless on Twitter.  On Monday, she put a picture of herself in the Obama "Hope" poster style, with "DOPE" written across it.   

I really hope she "goes out like a punk" now.

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27 minutes ago, watch2much said:

you took the words right out of my mouth.  apparently, Janet was used to sleeping next to him but said he never touched her.  Presumably, he had to climb over her and Elaine and men at different times, but they didn't notice anything.  He purposely did not do it when others could witness it....only when his victims were there. 

Wait, WHAT?  I don't remember Janet saying that.  Didn't Janet say that Dan did all of this stuff but she was fine with it?  That's different than Janet claiming Dan has never touched her.  

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Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

Wait, WHAT?  I don't remember Janet saying that.  Didn't Janet say that Dan did all of this stuff but she was fine with it?  That's different than Janet claiming Dan has never touched her.  

I think Janet said that she hadn't seen it happen, but she believed the younger women.

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34 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

And on a different note, what was up with that stupid note that Jamal found hanging in the tree?  I found that whole thing super insulting as a viewer.  He sees something that says "You found me, I'm yours" and he's somehow NOT supposed to read it?  In what universe is that going to happen to a player who knows he's on the outs?  And then Jamal supposedly didn't notice the note was folded in such a way that it revealed more information?  I thought that whole set-up was ridiculous.

I completely forgot how annoyed I was by that dumb-as-hell 'lesson', due to the train wreck that was the 2nd TC.  Rob says something along the lines of 'nothing is handed to you in Survivor', but in recent years HII's and advantages have been handed out like Oprah hands out cars.  What is the actual percentage of a straight-up disadvantage being handed out?  Not an equal chance of an advantage or disadvantage that you have the opportunity to not partake in, but a 'ha ha, you happened to find this so fuck you' disadvantage?

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I don't know why this is here and can't get rid of it. 

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14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

who's next on my shit list? Oh yeah, Karishma, because all of her Talking Heads have sounded smug, as if she has any idea on what's going on.

Is there anything funnier than watching the most useless, clueless people get further and further in the game all due to their enormous ineptitude?  And their cockiness always increases exponentially as the 39 days wears on.  How do Goats not realize they're Goats??  They should have a whole season:  "Survivor: Isle of the GOATS.".  Karishma and Phillip would be locks for casting.  (Hey, Probst.  If you're reading here and even think about this as a future season theme, you'd better run me my money!)

9 hours ago, GaT said:

I sat here screaming at Kelle to play one of her idols, I honestly can't believe she didn't. What was she thinking?

Sigh.  13 hrs later and I still can't believe she sat on 2 idols.   What arrogance.

Maybe my least favorite castaway?  Lauren.  UGH.  I can't remember a more insufferable camera-aware overacter.  She can go next.  And I hope she cries while leaving.

42 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Keanu Reeves is a precious angel and if they ever perfect human cloning I'm ordering 20 of him.

Are you sure 20 will be enough? 😏

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9 minutes ago, eskimo said:

I completely forgot how annoyed I was by that dumb-as-hell 'lesson', due to the train wreck that was the 2nd TC.  Rob says something along the lines of 'nothing is handed to you in Survivor', but in recent years HII's and advantages have been handed out like Oprah hands out cars.  What is the actual percentage of a straight-up disadvantage being handed out?  Not an equal chance of an advantage or disadvantage that you have the opportunity to not partake in, but a 'ha ha, you happened to find this so fuck you' disadvantage?

I don't know why this is here and can't get rid of it. 

Great point.  Survivor has been giving out "free lunches" left and right lately.  Just last season, they gave Chris and idol, when he returned from IOE after being voted out 3rd, which practically guaranteed him the million dollars.  

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I think Janet, in so many words, was saying that Dan was 'that way' (meaning feely) and that it didn't bother her and she didn't take it as inappropriate but she 'believed' the other gals did take it that way. She was validating their feelings. But she didn't feel the same.

So...if you watch the Ponderosas from Kellee and Jamal it is pretty interesting and has me side eyeing this whole thing. Kellee says to Jack that 'Dan flipped sides'. So was SHE bringing up her feelings on feely Dan to Missy in hopes to sway a vote for him? Since that side had the numbers and she would have been, rightly so, worried they'd vote her. And did Missy and Elizabeth play that up so as to keep Kellee in the dark that they were voting her (which worked as Kellee didn't even play an idol)? Like they were like 'OMG, I know the dude makes us uncomfortable too so we'll all vote him out'. The scene with Dan and Kellee on the beach and him touching her hair...I have to go back a rewatch because that looked like from way back (from the time she confronted Dan about the touching early on). Was the show making that look like it was a new touching- like Dan ignored Kellee's wishes to stop? I hope not. I have to go back and rewatch the early epi and last night's epi. If Dan kept touching and ignored the gals when they asked him to stop then the show should have IMMEDIATELY booted him....right then and there. But they didn't. They can't be that shitty, can they (the show)?

And, also, Kellee said to Jamal and Jack at Ponderosa that she initially wanted to vote out Dean but then had that expiring idol and devised that plan. They told her it blew up their games (all 3 of them). And she did it just to make a big cool move. Not because she wanted to keep, and work with, Dean over Jack. Like, wow! 

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13 hours ago, meatball77 said:

But he knows women.  He works with them.  He even knows about the me too movement 🙄

He obviously feels it's all about intent and all about him.  He didn't mean it in that way so his behavior wasn't wrong at all.  However he was told that he made her uncomfortable and he still couldn't keep his hands to himself.  He's gross and no amount of "knowing women" makes that less true.

I’m not a rape survivor, but I was molested by my minister when I was 19. He came over to pray for me and offer me a job. Before leaving he asked for a hug. Then he stuck his hand up under my shirt and his tongue down my throat. Thank God my parents believed me right away. They went to confront him. He of course denied doing anything wrong and suddenly I was a pariah who was making up lies. Then 11 other women came forward and told similar stories. 
 

So Elizabeth, Missy and Lauren really pissed me off last night. They’re the reason women aren’t believed. 

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This was a realy tiring and hard episode to watch. I think it's the first time after a Survivor episode that I feel that tired and emotionally exhausted. I think the story was way smaller and they made it into something way bigger. Was Dan more touchy - feely than other people? Maybe. But I think it became a way larger issue than it was supposed to. What I understood from the story was that Kelley was more paranoid about being touched than normal people and this story got out, people were starting to notice (and exaggerate) Dan's behavior, and when the merge happened, Missy got advantage of the fact that Kelley wanted Dan gone for her game reasons. They played it up to Janet, Janet felt it was her duty to protect the girls even though it was bad for her game, and they all blindsided her with voting out Kelley. In my eyes Janet was the most innocent victim. I don't get why she became the target since they all knew she was lied to.

I hate the fact that Jeff would not let this go. They were expecting fireworks after the whole story was revealed, the players decided to let it go but Jeff wanted his drama. I am not a person who dislikes Jeff but I was not a fan of what he did with Dan.

I also hate the fact that Missy, Elizabeth, Lauren and whoever else was in on the plan used something so serious as harassment for stratefy purposes. It's obvious Dan's career is destroyed.

All in all, I don't feel I watched the game I love so much today rather than a really serious and sad story.

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5 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

but on the island when you can't walk away and you want to win money and the others will be voting

It's the same for all of them.  All of them are away from their family, without all the clothes they usually have, on national tv.  I can imagine all of them feeling more vulnerable.

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4 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I bolded and cropped the above to highlight the one sentence.  I seem to recall Kellee feeling uncomfortable with Dan's touching in episode one but also afraid to confront him directly.  It is hard enough in real life (oh, you are too sensitive, a trouble maker didn't understand, a bitch) but on the island when you can't walk away and you want to win money and the others will be voting... she decided to claim to be over-sensitive to make it sound like it was her problem, not his... not unlike what some people have to do in real life to avoid being called a trouble maker.

To be honest, neither I or you can know the real truth. Only Kelley can explain how much it was her own paranoia and how much was Dan't behavior. Janet said that she herself is a really physical person, this is how she is. There are people who are like that and there are people who don't notice it, people who tolerate it and people who can't stand it. From what we saw there was some truth in that Dan was more touchy - feely than other guys, but it's also true that some women made it a bigger story for their own strategy. This is why I said that Janet was the only victim in this story. All the rest were somehow guilty.

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5 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Kellee told Dan she didn't like being touched by people because, as with most women, they're made to feel as if they have to apologize and blame themselves for calling out men who act inappropriately.  Add in the fact that this is a game, Kellee had to walk on eggshells to get her point across but not jeopardize her place in the game.  Even if Dan did nothing wrong (he did) and it was all her paranoia (it wasn't), the bottom line is she asked him not to touch her. Several times. That should have been the end of it.

The only player who wanted to let it go was Dan.  

I'm not defending Dan, but I do think there are people who don't realise what they are doing. I bet Dan is the funniest guy in his familiar environment and his friends and family are used to his behavior and they laugh with it "oh that Dan!". Elizabeth, Noura, Lauren, Janet and Karishma seemed to have no issue with Dan. This shows me that Kelley, Molly and maybe Missy just can't stand this behavior. I'm not blaming them, I'm just saying that there are various types of people.

No, Dan was not the only player who wanted to let it go. When the whole confrontation with Dan, Janet, Missy and Elizabeth happened, they all said "we are good now" and the story was over. Then Jeff brought it up again in tribal.

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2 minutes ago, himela said:

Janet, Missy and Elizabeth happened, they all said "we are good now" and the story was over. Then Jeff brought it up again in tribal.

Well, I don't know how "good" they were if Janet felt like she'd be voted out next because of the incident. 

Generally, if someone says no, no matter what type of person you are, you should take the "no" at face value. They're all still strangers, after all. You shouldn't assume the "no, stop" is in a joking manner. Dan doesn't know these people. He should have stopped when Kellee asked him to stop. And yes, we saw on camera that she told him to stop at least once. He also had a formal warning and then got annoyed when Jeff brought up the issue during Tribal Council. 

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3 minutes ago, himela said:

No, Dan was not the only player who wanted to let it go. When the whole confrontation with Dan, Janet, Missy and Elizabeth happened, they all said "we are good now" and the story was over. Then Jeff brought it up again in tribal

Yes, and everybody was fine discussing it at TC, the place where these things are supposed to be discussed.  Missy and Elizabeth said they were "good" during the confrontation with Janet because they were getting called out on their lies and wanted to end that awkward situation.  But the only person who was legit pissed off that it was brought up at TC was Dan.

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Kelley's overplaying was demonstrated in using Noura to vote out Jack.  I would never have trusted Noura with such a role and secret.  Of course Noura was going to reveal that Kelley put her up to it.  Did Kelley not notice ANYTHING about Noura while in the game?  Also, Kelley saving Dean obviously did not create a bond between them as he voted for her to leave.  Kelley overplayed when it was unnecessary and underplayed when there was actual danger to Kelley.  Sigh.  

I also wish that Jamal had developed a more stealth plan for his sabotage.  Everyone pretty much doubted it from the get-go.  

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I want to castrate Aaron for pulling the "I have relatives with vaginas so I'm like ultra-sensitive and understanding!" bullshit, and yet rolling his eyes and invalidating the women (all 2 of them) who did speak up against Dan. Yeah, some ally you are. GTFO you POS.

I also want to castrate Dan for sooooo many reasons as others have mentioned. You creepy slime bucket, I can't believe you had the audacity to add insult to injury and mutter "Yeah, put that torch down" when Kellee got booted. And you too, with your "I have a wife and 2 boys!" Like what even the fuck does that have to do with anything as if it's supposed to give you immunity from being a creep? Do you know how many pieces of shit have spouses and children and 2 dogs and a cat? Ugh. I'm just going to stop because I could write a whole essay on everything wrong about Dan.

Tommy, real great role model you are for your students. Not. Way to blend in with the wallpaper and not be an ally. Ginger prick.

Lauren, I hope your braids all fall out. 

Elizabeth, fuck you.

Missy, you're a fucking coward. 

Elaine, you're a follower. 

Dean, you're a useless turd.

Janet, even if Sia doesn't give you money, I hope you somehow get rewarded in some way. 

Between last night's show and my favorite sports team hiring a dude-bro shithead for manager yesterday who completely mishandled a sexual assault case, I couldn't even convey my utter and complete (and continued) disappointment in society and men and the women who pull a Missy/Elizabeth, and the people who continue to make excuses for people who lack morals that shouldn't be that hard to possess. 

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Dan sucks donkey balls.  I can't believe that we got that black screen telling us that productions interviewed people individually, then talked to everyone as a group, then pulled Dan aside and gave him a warning.  Then at tribal council he acted like he had NO IDEA that the conversation had been about him.  What the hell?  He was given a warning.  He had to have known that he was the problem.

"I can't believe this, I am the gentlest guy ever, just ask my wife of 21 years!"  How awful for her to have to witness his touching and whatnot and being told to stop but not stopping.  He is delusional and awful.  

So disappointed that Kellee went home with two idols.  She got played badly.  It was obvious she really did have almost no allies in this game, it's too bad.

Happy that Jamal is gone as well, if only so I don't have to listen to his pompous voice again.

The only ones left that I like are Janet, Tommy and (shocking but true) Noura.  I'm indifferent to Dean.  Everyone else can get stung to death by venomous insects.

Speaking of bugs and stuff... Janet slept on the beach by herself.  We see shots of snakes slithering amongst camp, and Elizabeth saw a tarantula.  How do they sleep at night without having these animals all over them?  I would probably never sleep.

47 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Is there anything funnier than watching the most useless, clueless people get further and further in the game all due to their enormous ineptitude?  And their cockiness always increases exponentially as the 39 days wears on.  How do Goats not realize they're Goats??  They should have a whole season:  "Survivor: Isle of the GOATS.".  Karishma and Phillip would be locks for casting.  (Hey, Probst.  If you're reading here and even think about this as a future season theme, you'd better run me my money!)

Angelina Keeley is a lock for that season as well.  She's the first person they should call.

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1 minute ago, seacliffsal said:

Kelley's overplaying was demonstrated in using Noura to vote out Jack.  I would never have trusted Noura with such a role and secret.  Of course Noura was going to reveal that Kelley put her up to it.  Did Kelley not notice ANYTHING about Noura while in the game?  Also, Kelley saving Dean obviously did not create a bond between them as he voted for her to leave.  Kelley overplayed when it was unnecessary and underplayed when there was actual danger to Kelley.  Sigh.  

I also wish that Jamal had developed a more stealth plan for his sabotage.  Everyone pretty much doubted it from the get-go.  

I really like Kellee, and she obviously has book smarts.  But, she is a rather clueless when it comes to strategy and reading people.   

Making Dean her new, most trusted ally and trusting Noura to keep a secret reminded me of Charles Minor putting Kevin on the phones and making Stanley his new productivity czar.  

Who was less convincing returning from IOTI, Noura or Jamal?

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I just feel the need to say that in no way am I defending Dan. I am not American, and in my country there are many people (maybe the majority of them) who are over the top, whose behavior is kinda over the top, I don't know how else to put it, and I think I'm a little used to it. When I say "it" I mean the over the top behavior. If Kelley was annoyed and insulted by this behavior, Dan should have backed off for good, and as it seems he didn't (we don't know for sure because they ended up in different tribes). Did he continue after the merge? I don't know. What I want to say is, please don't take it the wrong way that I am defending Dan. Thanks.

(I agree with everything that Shannon Gaitz said in RHAP Know it alls. She said it perfectly.)

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1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

This infuriated me - we saw her complain to Missy about how Dan was placing his hands inappropriately in the shelter when they were sleeping (complete with video footage).  When Elizabeth went to Dan and suddenly said, "Hey, dude, I have NO PROBLEMS sleeping next to you and I never have!" -  I felt stunned and sickened.  I couldn't believe what coming out of her mouth.

Regarding Janet - no one realized that she was sleeping alone on the beach??  So the women made a complete pariah out of Janet, the very same person who they also said made them feel safer around Dan.  They all suck, every single one of them except Janet.  I am, however, extremely proud that Janet stayed in the game.  I can absolutely see myself, as a woman her age, bailing because the emotional toll was incredibly hard to bear.

And on a different note, what was up with that stupid note that Jamal found hanging in the tree?  I found that whole thing super insulting as a viewer.  He sees something that says "You found me, I'm yours" and he's somehow NOT supposed to read it?  In what universe is that going to happen to a player who knows he's on the outs?  And then Jamal supposedly didn't notice the note was folded in such a way that it revealed more information?  I thought that whole set-up was ridiculous.

I cannot believe I am now rage-watching my all-time favorite show.

I dont remember Liz complaing about it she was laughing and giggling when she was telling them last week. She probably likes it

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4 minutes ago, himela said:

I just feel the need to say that in no way am I defending Dan. I am not American, and in my country there are many people (maybe the majority of them) who are over the top, whose behavior is kinda over the top, I don't know how else to put it, and I think I'm a little used to it. When I say "it" I mean the over the top behavior. If Kelley was annoyed and insulted by this behavior, Dan should have backed off for good, and as it seems he didn't (we don't know for sure because they ended up in different tribes). Did he continue after the merge? I don't know. What I want to say is, please don't take it the wrong way that I am defending Dan. Thanks.

(I agree with everything that Shannon Gaitz said in RHAP Know it alls. She said it perfectly.)

Yes of course he continued after the merge.  He was demanding to touch her hair and she had to literally run away from him because he wouldn’t listen to her saying “no”...not to mention the videos shown of Dan inappropriately touching Missy.  I thought it was pretty damned clear.  

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2 minutes ago, Josh371982 said:

I dont remember Liz complaing about it she was laughing and giggling when she was telling them last week. She probably likes it

What? I don't even know what to make of that last sentence, but I will say that just because someone is laughing/giggling when talking about something awkward/uncomfortable doesn't mean shit and doesn't mean they were okay with it. I often use humor to make others less uncomfortable when I'm discussing something serious, as a coping mechanism and also because people can't handle the ugly truths. I frequently found myself feeling the need to smile a couple weeks ago whenever I had to share with friends and coworkers that my cat had passed away because if I didn't try to smile, I would have started crying instead. It doesn't mean I was happy that my cat died or that I liked it.

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15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ah, Kellee. You were the one who I finally picked as my winner and then you go and not play either of your two Idols for your first Merge. That's on you. But it's still a shame, because this entire episode showed me that I don't like anyone but Kellee (gone) and Janet. I kind of like Dean, and Jamal had some good moments here until he got voted out.

But man....I honestly don't know if I've felt pissed about reality show contestants since....ok, since Big Brother 21, but still. Elizabeth has been solidified in the I HATE YOU column. She might be the actual worst with playing Janet, making it seem like she felt uncomfortable with Dan, but confirming in her TH that she didn't believe a word that was being thrown around and then completely threw Janet under the bus.

Let me be clear, Missy is no better...she may be worse since we know she truly felt the same as Kellee, Noura, and a couple of the other women and STILL stayed silent and even lied to Dan's face! But at least, with Missy, I can kind of see where her motivation to keep quiet may come from, similar to Kellee telling the producer to not do anything about it because they're still playing a game. However, I'm still mad at Missy because she didn't even seem to feel guilty for staying silent as everyone attacked Janet. So, any ounce of empathy I had is fully gone.

Aaron's smug ass face tonight pissed me off too, especially in the second TC when he completely dismissed the possibility of Dan harrassing the women. Jamal may be a smug condescending ass a lot of the time, but when he told Aaron off, I did end up liking him a little bit more. 

Dan...urg, don't get me started on his whole "SO WE'RE NEVER LETTING THIS GO." It's just clear that he really is more upset that it's being publicized on national television. Now, it's not great for Jeff to have it the focal point of the entire TC, but it's also an important discussion to be had because it affects the game. So yeah, good on Jeff for NOT LETTING THIS GO.

Honestly, I think that they had enough footage to LET HIM GO. and then Kellee may have not made her truly stupid error and still been there. Producers handled this very poorly I think.

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1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

I bolded and cropped the above to highlight the one sentence.  I seem to recall Kellee feeling uncomfortable with Dan's touching in episode one but also afraid to confront him directly.  It is hard enough in real life (oh, you are too sensitive, a trouble maker didn't understand, a bitch) but on the island when you can't walk away and you want to win money and the others will be voting... she decided to claim to be over-sensitive to make it sound like it was her problem, not his... not unlike what some people have to do in real life to avoid being called a trouble maker.

Yes, the way I remember it was that Kellee tried to allow Dan to save face, and to protect her alliance by making it about her being sensitive about being touched.   

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*wanted to quote my post above where I wondered if the Dan touching Kellee's hair scene was from after merge or from early in game but I quoted wrong post

Rewatching and he did keep touching. Not good. Kellee was legit feeling uncomfortable and he ignored her wishes for space. But the other gals clearly weren't bothered. Elizabeth even said something like 'the original Vokai are not the biggest fan of Dan and so if I can play up that card in whatever way possible, I'll do it'. So that implied the new Vokai (or the new Dan tribe after the mix up) were fans of Dan. Kellee wasn't even going to, necessarily, use her discomfort to vote out Dan. She was led to that conclusion by the Elizabeth and Missy. 

So I am mad at: the show, Dan and the folks that used that situation to help out their game. Still #JanetFTW. If not her then, begrudgingly, Noura or Karishma. Ugghhh, that it's down to that. But I won't be watching. Not giving that show ratings from me. I will just read here. 

Edited by Lamima
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I think everyone has already covered how these episodes set the women's movement back a hundred years so let me comment on something completely different.

I have and always will continue to call shenanigans on the way most of the players "find" hidden immunity idols. Time and time again, it's always the person who needs them the most who finds them. Coincidence? Kellee is suddenly in danger and "poof," she finds an idol. Next thing you know, Janet is the one in danger, a voila! She finds an idol.

Now, one could argue, "but iMonrey, it's because they know they're in danger so they go looking!" Well, everyone is looking. In fact the thing that prompted Janet to go looking was seeing Missie and Aaron looking. Isn't it a lucky coincidence that the idol was hidden where she was looking instead of where they were looking? 

This just happens way too often.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean they're smart enough to use it.😖

Also: "Island of the Idols" was a big fat nothing burger this week. Jamal made up some fake advantage and gave it to Dean and they never even told us what it was supposed to be!!! WTF? 

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41 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Who was less convincing returning from IOTI, Noura or Jamal?

Noura.  Jamal was just told he could make a fake advantage, he could have kept it secret or not.  Noura probably had a harder task as she had to clearly push for one thing, a particular role in the challenge.  But her logic to the tribe before going for the role just gave more suspicion too. 

55 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Yes, we can.  There were cameras there. We can take what we saw with our own eyes, combine them with what Kellee was saying through her very distressed tears and we can believe her.

We never see everything, it's always the edit.  We don't know the time points to give one example.  Dan said Missy asked for him to massage her back?  That';s not excusing if something was done continually and badly, but I will never just accept the edit without a critical perspective that it's part of a storyline being given. 

Edited by amazingracefan
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Just now, amazingracefan said:

Noura.  Jamal was just told he could make a fake advantage, he could have kept it secret or not.  Noura probably had a harder task as she had to clearly push for one thing, a particular role in the challenge.  But her logic to the tribe before going for the role just gave more suspicion too. 

We never see everything, it's always the edit.

In this case, we saw footage that they would normally never show because we saw production teams in the shots. And those shots show Dan touching women in weird ways. And we saw Kellee tell Dan she doesn't like being touched. And we saw Dan touching her hair and tryign to run his hands in her hair. And we saw Dan kissing Kellee on the head when she returned from Island of the Idols. All after she had told him not to touch her.

So unless you are arguing that they edited together those scenes, we saw what kellee said was being uncomfortable and we saw her telling him to stop multiple times. And we saw other people commenting ion Dan's being feely. It bothered Kellee more then it bothered them and Dan did not respect her wishes to not be touched.

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4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Companies need to be more comfortable firing employees for sexual harassment.  Instead it's just looked at this "he said she said" muddy issue that no one can prove.  So, when women complain about these issues it goes nowhere and can lead to disaster for the complainant.  These people only get fired for "something else" like some notable performance issue.  Sexual harassment should be looked at as a performance issue.

The show is included in this.  Put this in the clause of signing up for the show and get rid of people for it.

The problem with that is, it is not really fair to fire someone without proof.  Should a woman (or man) just be able to fire anyone she/he doesn't like, by simply claiming sexual harassment. 

In Dan's case, we had video evidence of his inappropriate touching and Kellee's earlier complaint and corroboration from multiple women, (before some of them decided to recant to push their own agenda.

Sadly, Elizabeth and Missy demonstrated that a certain percentage of women (a very, small one, I hope) are perfectly willing to lie about such things to advance their goals.  

These days, I think it is a bit easier to get proof.  Harassers often call or text their victims.  Plus there is a lot more video surveillance and nearly everyone carries an audio and video recording device on them, in the form of a smart phone.  

Also, the policies and standards are much clearer than they once were.  

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