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nodorothyparker

S10.E06: Bonds

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Airdate 2019.11.10

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Carol and Daryl go on a mission together while Siddiq struggles to solve a mystery.

Mod Note:  This thread is for discussion of the episode only.  If you didn't see it happen onscreen, discussion of it does not belong here and your post WILL be removed.  DO NOT DISCUSS CASTING NEWS, including reported cast comings and goings.   We have separate threads for discussing spoilers or the comics.  

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I did too but I realize, that is a very unpopular opinion around here these days. I thought all the Negan stuff tonight was hilarious. Also, I love Carol forever but she's going to get her fool self killed this time. Finally, do these folks seriously not regularly boil their water?

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Was talking about the show this morning (OK because I dozed off around 9:20ish and missed maybe 10-15 min) and we were trying to figure out where Neegan got the bat when he strutted back into camp.   But reading a summary on TVLine it seems nobody knows where he got the bat; maybe Beta just left it wherever he caught Neegan and that just happened to be the same place Beta abandoned Neegen to the herd?  If so nice coincidence.

Otherwise:

Shutting up Neegen with the gag and Alpha's shhhh was what all of us have wanted to do for years but he was smart to adjust his style, watch, wait and copy them.  The whole sequence with Beta and Neegen was pretty funny in a show that doesn't bring comedy often.  Carol is right that they're already paying a price to Alpha and the Whisperers.  Any truce is fake and most of our intrepid hero's don't seem to see it.  

Last complaint - The infirmary; everyone should know better by now.  Whether this is Alpha's water poisoning, flu, virus, doesn't matter......there should be some sort of plan in place where if there are X number of people or more in the infirmary no matter what's wrong with them then a security detail is assigned for around the clock watch to stop any mass "turning" if a couple of the patient's die, become walkers and attack the others.  In their world you can't just leave a bunch of sick people alone or with one Doctor tending them and call it good.  

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1 hour ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Was ...trying to figure out where Neegan got the bat when he strutted back into camp.  

I think it was a tree branch, not his bat but if I'm wrong and it was his bat, he picked it up off the whisperer that Beta killed.

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10 hours ago, diebartdie said:

I did too but I realize, that is a very unpopular opinion around here these days. I thought all the Negan stuff tonight was hilarious. Also, I love Carol forever but she's going to get her fool self killed this time. Finally, do these folks seriously not regularly boil their water?

I thought Nagen's comedic attitude should have gotten his head taken off. 

3 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Shutting up Neegen with the gag and Alpha's shhhh was what all of us have wanted to do for years but he was smart to adjust his style, watch, wait and copy them.  The whole sequence with Beta and Neegen was pretty funny in a show that doesn't bring comedy often.  Carol is right that they're already paying a price to Alpha and the Whisperers.  Any truce is fake and most of our intrepid hero's don't seem to see it.  

Subtle humor is fine, this wasn't that.  I think this was typical childish humor that has no place in this series.  Nagen has destroyed a lot of lives.  The Whisperers have destroyed a lot of lives.  Given both their histories, any comedy between the above is somewhere this show should not go.

Jeffrey Dean Morgan (Nagen) is fifty-three years old, the lines that he has been given to read as Nagen don't fit the actor's age, and he looks ridiculous talking the way he does.

The music that they used during the skinning of the walkers was a piss poor choice.

And again, this series can't seem to go an episode without killing animals.

They don't have enough brains to put the "no animals were harmed in the making of this episode"  statement that so many series and movies have used in the past before the episode starts.  If real animals are going to be killed in this series they need to make it known before the episode airs.

If Alexandria is using Yarrow also known as Achillea as an ingredient to their medicine, that is a component that they should never run out of.  That stuff is invasive as hell.  I have planted it before and it just takes over everywhere and chokes out just about everything, making the ground as hard as cement.  The plant has runners on it like strawberry plants and also reseeds itself when the blooms go by.  It is a bitch to even attempt to get rid of.

Daryl says one smart thing, saying basically "if we do this and we fail, everyone is going to pay for it".  He is right.  Carol has no right to make that decision for everyone else.  But then again, she is nothing more that a stuck up egotistical jackass that is only concerned about her losses.

Where did Carol get the map?  It was in awfully good shape.

Carol and Daryl should have warned all of the protagonists what they were about to do.  If it blows up in their faces, the rest of the protagonists need to be prepared for the Whisperers retaliating.

2 hours ago, diebartdie said:

I think it was a tree branch, not his bat but if I'm wrong and it was his bat, he picked it up off the whisperer that Beta killed.

It was a perfectly shaped branch.  Production should have known better.

I don't know what is making the Alexandrian's sick, I don't think it was walker blood in their water supply.  Most of the protagonists have had walker blood on their bodies and haven't gotten sick.  I think something else is going on.  I don't trust the new doctor.

Eugene is a fool.  Yeah he is lonely, but their is no need for him to spill his guts over a radio.

Edited by icemiser69
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I know it would get cartoonish after awhile, but it would be nice to know where featured characters are located (maps) when they are out in the woods.  Where was Aaron last week when he saw the whisperer killing walkers and gutting them into the water?  Was that water flowing away from or towards Alexandria?

Is that Alexandria's water supply and is that what is making the Alexandrian's sick in this episode?

Where is Pikes Peak located?  How close is it to the various settlements?

Daryl and Carol crossed Pikes Peak this week into Whisperer territory.  What direction did they head in after that?

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Wow... the lack of posting is strictly a result of how far this show has dropped.   

I am a confessed "hate watcher" for some 3 years now..  I used to watch every replay of each episode and break it down, then check on here for stuff I missed and just love it.  Not at all for the last 3 years..  Now it has just become Sunday night habit..  I switch between Sunday Night football and this and sometimes neither bring any entertainment....

Can't stand the entire Whisper'r story line.. Can't stand Alpha and her weird ass head movements and faux Shakespearean way of talking.  Can't stand whatever freaking dynamic she has going with Beta..

I think they have backed themselves into a corner with Negan and just don't know what to do with him and I don't care...

I am not one that cares about the romantic coupling, This is a horror show, lets have horror and suspense..  Speaking of "coupling" so what are we supposed to vibe from Saddiq and the other "doc"  Is that supposed to be a  male/male sexual tension?

I liked it better when it was a small band of people on the move trying to survive.

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VERY well said, @icemiser69

I've been watching this show from the beginning.  I don't watch TWD for comical hijinks.  Last night, I found myself in the position of cheering for Beta.  Cheering for him to beat that murderous rapist's scrawny ass into the ground.

Beta was right about Negan.  Without his barb wire bat and his army of henchmen, he IS weak.  The WHISPERERS have no use for a man who has so little self-control, he can't keep his mouth shut and I don't think they have a garden.

I'm not sure what purpose Negan serves on this show.  He lives in a community where no one wants him.  He's been forced on Alexandria by Rick's megalomania and Michonne's completely misguided loyalty to a man who died almost a decade ago.  I think it's interesting that the only people Negan chooses to help are young girls.  He didn't want to have anything to do with the BOY who idolized him.

There's more than enough 'comic relief' on this show.  Eugene and the new doctor are chock full of quips.  And as far as I know, neither man has forced a group of women to have sex with him.

ETA:  I think this place is very tolerant of differing views, which is one of the reasons I love it.  I'm a Carol hater from way back and I always feel comfortable posting here.

Edited by mightysparrow
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What irresistible charm does Negan have, that it tames the beast? The whisperers own baby was dropped on the ground to be eaten by walkers because it cried. And here's Negan, yapping away non-stop and it's tolerated with no harm to him. What did I miss that would explain it? I mean, I could see that Alpha was really nearly swooning over him, but still. Hey maybe next week Alpha will get a brand new skin mask, put some lipstick on it, scalp a walker to make a blond wig and seduce Negan. Beta will be overcome with jealousy and try to sabotage the budding romance. We'll need a laugh track, please, Show.

Oh, and Show? There is a difference between humour and broad or slapstick comedy.

We got 1 dick, 2 balls, 1 shittin', 1 pissin' and 1 erection reference. Yes, side-splittingly funny, if you're ten.

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So was Alpha's leaning in to whisper "Shh" to Negan his initiation? Is he one of them now? How can a man who is incapable of shutting up be a whisperer? How does burying a pig cook it? They did cook the pig right? How long are we gonna hafta suffer with Siddiq's hallucinations. Is there going to be any point to them?

Tune in never to see any resolution to any of these questions.

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17 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I've been watching this show from the beginning.  I don't watch TWD for comical hijinks.  Last night, I found myself in the position of cheering for Beta.  Cheering for him to beat that murderous rapist's scrawny ass into the ground.

Beta was right about Negan.  Without his barb wire bat and his army of henchmen, he IS weak.  The WHISPERERS have no use for a man who has so little self-control, he can't keep his mouth shut and I don't think they have a garden.

I'm not sure what purpose Negan serves on this show.  He lives in a community where no one wants him.  He's been forced on Alexandria by Rick's megalomania and Michonne's completely misguided loyalty to a man who died almost a decade ago.  I think it's interesting that the only people Negan chooses to help are young girls.  He didn't want to have anything to do with the BOY who idolized him.

I wish I could give that more than 1 "like." 

I've always said Negan is insecure, but his behavior is what Kirkman thinks is super-macho, tough-guy (how would HE know?).

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10 hours ago, diebartdie said:

I did too but I realize, that is a very unpopular opinion around here these days. I thought all the Negan stuff tonight was hilarious. Also, I love Carol forever but she's going to get her fool self killed this time. Finally, do these folks seriously not regularly boil their water?

I don't hate the show.  TPTB chose to put certain characters on this episode that acted in a certain manner that I do not like.  Plus, I don't like what Carol and Daryl have become.

The knew doctor in this episode had no boundaries with his bedside manner.  He is basically Negan without Nagen's horrible backstory history.

I don't mind Nagen mouthing off to the protagonists, because they deserve it, and they aren't going to do anything to him anyway.  I do have a problem with Nagen mouthing off to the Whisperers.  He doesn't know their history, he has no clue how the Whisperers react to various situations.  I don't think that Negan is the type of person that would strut around like he is one of the Whisperers.   That isn't believable.  That is the type of thing any one not Negan would get killed for.   Nagen has lived an awfully long time and survived.  If he didn't at least have some smarts he would have been killed long ago.

So, Beta killed the Whisperer that gave Negan food and left him there to draw walkers to Negan in an effort to make Negan walker chow.

3 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Last complaint - The infirmary; everyone should know better by now.  Whether this is Alpha's water poisoning, flu, virus, doesn't matter......there should be some sort of plan in place where if there are X number of people or more in the infirmary no matter what's wrong with them then a security detail is assigned for around the clock watch to stop any mass "turning" if a couple of the patient's die, become walkers and attack the others.  In their world you can't just leave a bunch of sick people alone or with one Doctor tending them and call it good. 

These aren't the brightest bunch of protagonists.

Edited by icemiser69 · Reason: post constantly under reconstruction.
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19 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

So, Beta killed the Whisperer that gave Negan food and left him there to draw walkers to Negan in an effort to make Negan walker chow.

I tip my proverbial cap to you because I in no way shape or form caught that tidbit.

Whats with Daryl being all vague with Carol about Connie? Why doesn't he think he can't have a relationship with a woman.

I have too many useless questions that'll never get resolution *facepalm*

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15 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I tip my proverbial cap to you because I in no way shape or form caught that tidbit.

When someone does something nice, chances are they will be toes up by the end of the episode.

16 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Whats with Daryl being all vague with Carol about Connie? Why doesn't he think he can't have a relationship with a woman.

I have given up on Daryl.  If I were Dog I would keep my tail down.

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1 hour ago, Lady Iris said:

So was Alpha's leaning in to whisper "Shh" to Negan his initiation? Is he one of them now? How can a man who is incapable of shutting up be a whisperer? How does burying a pig cook it? They did cook the pig right? How long are we gonna hafta suffer with Siddiq's hallucinations. Is there going to be any point to them?

Tune in never to see any resolution to any of these questions.

That’s how you pit roast a hog. Except not. The hog wasn’t dressed out or skinned, it takes half a damn day to get the coals ready, and they just dumped dirt right on the hog. This show is written by people who live in a bubble. 

Why the hell don’t they use the damn whisper costume when out in the field? Daryl did it once and it worked. Lot better than rubbing your face with poopy gut blood. 

The whole Negan storyline completely jumped the shark. I found this boring and not funny. Dick, balls, blah blah, taunting the guy who could and should have snapped his neck like a chicken.

Juvenile. They’re all sick from ungutted and undercooked pork.

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24 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Whats with Daryl being all vague with Carol about Connie? Why doesn't he think he can't have a relationship with a woman.

Honestly, this show's immature coyness about stuff like that. It's like elementary school where you keep your crushes to yourself lest you be taunted:

"Daryl and Connie up a tree,

K-i-s-s-i-n-g!" 🎶

1 hour ago, Lady Iris said:

How does burying a pig cook it? They did cook the pig right?

I wasn't watching closely, but how DID they cook it? If they want to cook it that way, they'd have to have quite a fire going first. I saw no red-hot rocks or coals being put in the hole. If that was done, I missed it.

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There was certainly plenty of head scratching and hand waving throughout this episode, but there was also something strangely entertaining in the dynamics at play in this one.  It's not great theater by any stretch, no, but when I'm watching one over the top villain court and bully his way into the inner sanctum of another over the top villain where I don't feel compelled to try to suss out who's less awful or whose side I should be on, I can just be fine with it either way if one happens to kill the other and enjoy the show.

 We've been told over and over that Negan is a watcher, that's he's always watching and listening and seeing how he can use that and for the first time in maybe forever I got a very real sense of that.  Yes, he's a gross psychopath, but like many of them, he also has a pretty good understanding of people.  He knew full well he was irritating the shit out of Beta and the rest of the Whispering herd and he deliberately kept doing it to see how they would respond.  At this point, he's persona non grata with the living communities and the Sanctuary is gone.  What does he have to lose even if he gets it wrong?  He sees the growing unease between Alpha and Beta and correctly surmises after all the groveling submissiveness she surrounds herself with, his big Negan swinging dick persona will at least pique her interest.  I don't know exactly what the show is going for here, but the actors have a strange repellent chemistry that leads me to hope they'll be everything twisted that Rick and the garbage lady promised but never managed to deliver on because of Rick's lingering status as a "good guy."  It's got to be more interesting than watching people chuck acorns into a can or Eugene take a turn playing ham radio Tinder.

Is no one left alive from the last time our gang faced an unknown epidemic?  That's only the reason why I can think of that they don't seem to be taking any precautions in herding a large group of sick people into one place where they could die and turn with only a single medic or two paying any attention.

As always I love anything that has Daryl and Carol just hanging out.  The actors have the easiest chemistry, probably from working together for so long.  The whole let's just the two of us somehow find and destroy the megaherd was awfully short on specifics as plans on this show often are, but it gave us a few nice reminders that when the show lets the Whisperers be these creepy unknown things mumbling in the dark, they are kind of scary.  I also enjoy any argument that's written well enough for me to see both sides of it and this was one.  Daryl is right that whatever they do is likely to blow back on the surrounding communities and that needs to be taken into consideration, but Carol's not wrong either that they're already suffering living under the boot of these whackadoos and that isn't likely to get any better without taking some kind of action.  

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About the luau: Maybe we're supposed to believe there was geothermal heat involved.

About Eugene's new love interest: I wouldn't mind if it weren't for how badly it bodes for Rosita's chances of survival. She's one of the characters I actually like, but if the writing room decides that she is primarily there to motivate Eugene, then they can easily kill her to give him man-pain while still having somebody on the show to continue motivating him.

About Negan not being killed for constantly forgetting that rule one of Whisperer's Club is do not yell about your balls all day in Whisperer's Club: I've got nothing. Unless maybe Coral sent them a note before he died.

About the infirmary: Security needn't even be that complicated. Just take a bit clothesline about three feet long. Tie one end of it to the bed frame. Tie the other end around the patient's ankle, enough to keep the foot from pulling through but not enough to be uncomfortable or circulation-threatening, using an easy to loosen slip knot.The can still sit up, lie down, shift their legs around, roll over, and if they need to get up and pee or anything they can remove the rope, do their thing, and then put it back on. But you know who doesn't know to loosen a slip-knot? Dead people who've turned into walkers.

Edited by CletusMusashi
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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

So, Beta killed the Whisperer that gave Negan food and left him there to draw walkers to Negan in an effort to make Negan walker chow.

These aren't the brightest bunch of protagonists.

The problem was the walkers turned around immediately. Negan had been yapping the whole time, and wasn't even "disguised" so I assumed everyone around him and Beta were whisperers. The show runners should be ashamed of themselves for that sequence.

Otherwise I enjoyed the episode, except for Siddique. He's still acting weird so I have to go back to wondering if he's a Manchurian Candidate. Additionally the utter stupidity of dragging an infant around every sick person in the camp. 

I guess the rushing water is making everyone sick. However Daryl just slit a walker and put the entrails right over his mouth.

It would have been much more believable to show the whisperers tainting stored water rather than dumping stuff in the river on the pretext that nobody sanitizes river water where walkers and wildlife are free to roam. 

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I think Daryl carries so many diseases already that there's no room for the Walker virus.

Maybe if he'd bitten everybody else they'd be as immune as him.

Edited by CletusMusashi
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9 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

However Daryl just slit a walker and put the entrails right over his mouth.

I know that killed people for about a season, but it doesn't now. We need an updated copy of the rules. 🙄

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15 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

I guess the rushing water is making everyone sick. However Daryl just slit a walker and put the entrails right over his mouth.

I think Daryl slit the throat of a Whisperer, not a walker.  That was an awful lot of blood for it to be a walker.

25 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Daryl is right that whatever they do is likely to blow back on the surrounding communities and that needs to be taken into consideration, but Carol's not wrong either that they're already suffering living under the boot of these whackadoos and that isn't likely to get any better without taking some kind of action.  

That still isn't Carol's decision to make.  If some people in the communities don't want that fight with the Whisperers, that is their right not to want it.  They shouldn't be forced into it.

Edited by icemiser69
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16 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

About Negan not being killed for constantly forgetting that rule on of Whisperer's Club is do not yell about your balls all day in Whisperer's Club: I've got nothing. Unless maybe Coral sent them a note before he died.

🤣😂 <insert laughing fit>

25 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Is no one left alive from the last time our gang faced an unknown epidemic?

Carol and Daryl were at the prison during that epidemic. You know, the one where Rick puzzled hard and long over the pig getting sick, never thinking to ask Hershel - who had 50 years of practicing veterinary medicine - what he thought it might be.

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Daryl slit the throat of a Whisperer, not a walker.  That was an awful lot of blood for it to be a walker.

Yes, but we know now that walkers still have plenty of fresh red blood and entrails when Plot needs it. I think it was a walker because it continued to growl after being disembowled.

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My several cents. 1. Negan was going to help that Mother and child get to Hill Top. I think that the character has changed. After Brandon killed the mom/kid, then Negan rocked his world, he figured that he could best "help" by infiltrating the Whisperers. I believe that he truly cares for Lydia(?) and wants to eliminate the Whisperers so that she will stop being an outsider at Alexandria. And maybe to come back to Alexandria a hero- Just a guess on all of this.

2. Brandon gave him the new "Lucielle"- Alpha took it. He fought his way out of the mini-hoard with a big stick.

3. There was a quick shot of rocks under the pig in the pit. Still it wasn't prepped correctly. 

4. I personally thought the interactions with Beta and Negan were funny. Negan is such an asshole- and Beta is so linear that I just got a chuckle out of it. 

5. I do think that Carol is right about not putting up with Alpha's shit. Why aren't the leaders trying to figure out a way to mitigate the hoard threat. Why just keep capitulating? 

edited to add: I kept saying that old lady is gonna die, turn and eat you all!!! WTF!!! No spaghetti night for you

Edited by 3jt · Reason: forgot something
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6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

That still isn't Carol's decision to make.  If some people in the communities don't want that fight with the Whisperers, that is their right not to want it.  They shouldn't be forced into it.

Her point was that if it's not this, it will be something else.  There will always be something else.  Now granted, her motives aren't exactly altruistic.  She's going rogue without keeping the other community leaders apprised and clearly wants to pay every last one of the Whisperers back for killing Henry.  We know Daryl sees that.  But the show has also made a point of showing us an Alexandria council meeting coming to a boiling point because the people there want "something" to be done even if they don't seem to know exactly what that something is.  We got an episode about graffiti against the continued Whisperer presence and residents were willing to hurt a teenage girl to send a message about their unhappiness with the situation.  There was plenty of grumbling from the Hilltoppers about it last week too. 

Michonne so far seems to be the biggest proponent to keeping the peace, but she's also indicated that that's less about not wanting to fight than not having the capabilities to combat the megaherd the Whisperers will surely point at them.  If Carol and Daryl can locate it first with a realistic plan to get rid of it, that goes a long way to leveling the playing field.  It's the wanting to charge ahead without backup or warning the communities that's an issue.

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So, Negan and the Whisperers. The two worst things to ever happen to this show, now combined. Great. Hey, throw in the junkyard people while you're at it, show. Might as well pile up on your greatest hits.

All I was thinking through this whole episode is that someone needed to die to get anything worthwhile out of this episode. Either Negan needed to kill Beta or Beta needed to kill Negan. Either way, I would have been satisfied they had done something useful. But no.

Once upon a time a good Carol and Daryl episode would have been worthwhile and might have even saved this one, but the show is so far gone now I'm not really interested in them either anymore. The whole Whisperers thing is just so damn stupid it ruins the whole show beyond redemption. After everything these characters have been through for the last nine seasons there's no reason on earth for them to fear the Whisperers. They're just silly compared to some of the things they've had to fight and survive. 

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12 hours ago, diebartdie said:

I did too but I realize, that is a very unpopular opinion around here these days. I thought all the Negan stuff tonight was hilarious.

Yes,  And what I also like is that I don't know what's gonna happen next.  This show was pretty predicable for a while,  I don't read the spoilers and it is getting very interesting.  For example, is Negan gonna have time to wear a mask?

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Just now, heisenberg said:

For example, is Negan gonna have time to wear a mask?

If they make him wear a mask they need to sew the mouth hole shut. Watching him still trying to talk  - all muffled and garbled - would be all kinds of funny. God has this show sunk into the pits.

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We're, what, 10 years into the Outbreak? And Dante still has a pristine white doctor's coat? No fraying, no showing signs of wear and tear after being washed and bleached for a decade? Besides, he's not an MD, he was an Army Combat Medic. That requires a high school diploma and 10 weeks of specialized training. Why is everyone kowtowing to him like he's Ben Casey or Marcus Welby (geez, am I showing my age or what?)?

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12 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Finally, do these folks seriously not regularly boil their water?

I thought the horse powered pump was bringing water up from a well,  surely they wouldn’t be using the pond that a sweaty arsed doctor just jumped into or a stream that walker guts, or heaven knows what was flowing through it, whichever source used, you’re right in thinking that any water should be boiled for the required time before consumption.

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36 minutes ago, Ouisch said:

We're, what, 10 years into the Outbreak? And Dante still has a pristine white doctor's coat? No fraying, no showing signs of wear and tear after being washed and bleached for a decade? Besides, he's not an MD, he was an Army Combat Medic. That requires a high school diploma and 10 weeks of specialized training. Why is everyone kowtowing to him like he's Ben Casey or Marcus Welby (geez, am I showing my age or what?)?

I’m as far from being an expert on the US military as you you could get, I do believe your ‘10 weeks specialised training’ falls some way short of the mark of reality. A relative of mine in the British Army underwent 22 weeks training to become a combat medical technician, that was only the start of his training, combat medics aren’t situated  in air conditioned, luxury surroundings behind the lines, they’re in the dirt and filth, being shot at and bombed the same as their comrades, in a ZA, any medical expertise should be prized above all others, it’s not a question of ‘Kowtowing’, it’s a question of putting your life in the hands of those who know more than you.

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1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

If they make him wear a mask they need to sew the mouth hole shut. Watching him still trying to talk  - all muffled and garbled - would be all kinds of funny. God has this show sunk into the pits.

I live to be corrected, but can we honestly see Smiley Boy wearing a ‘Skin’? I don’t believe for one second that he’d cope with the dirt and filth that goes with the worm eating, foul smelling, unwashed followers of Elpha & Bayda

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They really need to end this show. I like the idea of Daryl and Carol riding west and going from there. It’s time for a spin off. This has gotten so stale and rank even possums wouldn’t eat it. They really don’t know how to write their way around Vegan. 

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2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Daryl slit the throat of a Whisperer, not a walker.  That was an awful lot of blood for it to be a walker.

Fresh entrails wouldn't provide walker protection. 

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1 hour ago, Ouisch said:

And Dante still has a pristine white doctor's coat?

Is that the new doctor's name? Shows how much I pay attention. I guess he takes his coat to the same laundry as Gabriel takes his pristine white collar.

20 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

I live to be corrected, but can we honestly see Smiley Boy wearing a ‘Skin’?

  I can only hope.

So the whisperers can sit around, argue, kill each other, do their "we are free" chant, sleep, cook a whole pig (and they couldn't cook it without a fire)and not one walker detects them, yet Carol steps on one twig and they all head her way? These new rules are going way too far.

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One of my favorite moments in the early seasons was Lori making a giant stinkface when she realized the man who would be operating on her wayward child was a veterinarian.  But as Rick pointed out at the time, beggars can't be choosers.  The standards have dropped since then what with people throwing doctors into fires, revenge killing them for accidentally katanaing a bystander, or shooting nurses through with arrows.  Enid was basically apprenticing her way though the old timey version of medical school before she lost her head.  It's like the quickest way to announce a new character isn't a longterm prospect is for them to admit to having any semblance of a medical background.  If you can bandage a wound without accidentally tourniqueting someone, you're in.

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3 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yes, but we know now that walkers still have plenty of fresh red blood and entrails when Plot needs it. I think it was a walker because it continued to growl after being disembowled.

Thank you for this, it makes sense.

2 hours ago, Ouisch said:

That requires a high school diploma and 10 weeks of specialized training. Why is everyone kowtowing to him like he's Ben Casey or Marcus Welby (geez, am I showing my age or what?)?

If it helps, I remember Marcus Welby in reruns,  Robert Young and James Brolin, back when I was in kindergarten.  I have also heard of Ben Casey, but that is about it.

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

They really need to end this show. I like the idea of Daryl and Carol riding west and going from there. It’s time for a spin off. This has gotten so stale and rank even possums wouldn’t eat it. They really don’t know how to write their way around Vegan. 

I hear this a lot.  If people aren't interested in it any longer they can always watch something else. 😀 I didn't like this episode, but as long as there are episodes, the writers might just stumble upon something that I might find interesting.

51 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

Fresh entrails wouldn't provide walker protection. 

I never though of that.   Then again, the stench that is covering Daryl ought to be enough to repel walkers.

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Her point was that if it's not this, it will be something else.  There will always be something else.  Now granted, her motives aren't exactly altruistic.  She's going rogue without keeping the other community leaders apprised and clearly wants to pay every last one of the Whisperers back for killing Henry.  We know Daryl sees that.  But the show has also made a point of showing us an Alexandria council meeting coming to a boiling point because the people there want "something" to be done even if they don't seem to know exactly what that something is.  We got an episode about graffiti against the continued Whisperer presence and residents were willing to hurt a teenage girl to send a message about their unhappiness with the situation.  There was plenty of grumbling from the Hilltoppers about it last week too. 

There should have been an organized vote of some sort to make sure that everyone is on the same page.  Daryl and Carol are still going it alone and no one at the communities are the least bit prepared of something goes sour, and on this series something always goes sour.

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Michonne so far seems to be the biggest proponent to keeping the peace, but she's also indicated that that's less about not wanting to fight than not having the capabilities to combat the megaherd the Whisperers will surely point at them.  If Carol and Daryl can locate it first with a realistic plan to get rid of it, that goes a long way to leveling the playing field.  It's the wanting to charge ahead without backup or warning the communities that's an issue.

That is the main issue that I have.  If all hell breaks loose, Alexandria, Hilltop, and Oceanside aren't prepared for it.

Eugene is far too preoccupied with the radio when he should be coming up with ideas for new weapons.  Now that Eugene has a radio buddy to talk to, he will be even more distracted.

I still think the most logical thing is to surround the various herds with trip wires.  At that point the walkers are no longer an asset to the Whisperers.  They become a liability. 

Edited by icemiser69
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1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

I’m as far from being an expert on the US military as you you could get, I do believe your ‘10 weeks specialised training’ falls some way short of the mark of reality. A relative of mine in the British Army underwent 22 weeks training to become a combat medical technician, that was only the start of his training, combat medics aren’t situated  in air conditioned, luxury surroundings behind the lines, they’re in the dirt and filth, being shot at and bombed the same as their comrades, in a ZA, any medical expertise should be prized above all others, it’s not a question of ‘Kowtowing’, it’s a question of putting your life in the hands of those who know more than you.

I agree that Combat Medics are working under the very worst and most stressful of conditions, but that still does not compare to actually going to medical school for four years (after four years of undergrad schooling). My point is that Dante is posturing himself as a "doctor", when he has no medical degree. Sure, he worked in the trenches under unfathomable conditions and worked on gunshot victims and burn victims, etc, but does he have an microbiology training? When it comes to whatever this "stomach bug" is, he has no training as an internist, nor as as a diagnostician. 

My point is, hie is not a medical doctor, yet he wears a white coat (which is traditionally given to med school students at orientation). I think he's a poser, which may or may not come into play in later episodes.

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1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Is that the new doctor's name? Shows how much I pay attention. I guess he takes his coat to the same laundry as Gabriel takes his pristine white collar.

LOL  I remember Gabriel actually removing his collar and burning it, back in the season when Sasha shot some feral dogs for food. I happened to chat with him at a ComicCon after that season and asked him why he was still wearing a white collar, since he'd thrown it into the campfire....? He told me that there was a deleted scene that showed him (after they'd arrived at Alexandria) fashioning a collar out of a paper plate.

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Our "heroes" saying they're keeping the peace by living by the whisperer's rules is the exact same thing as when Ezekiel was giving Negan half(?) of the kingdom's supplies. It's not actually peace and it can't go on forever. However, I do think it's careless/selfish for Carol to make this decision on her own even though she's ultimately right, the whole team needs to be on board for them to have a chance of winning. 

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36 minutes ago, Ouisch said:

asked him why he was still wearing a white collar, since he'd thrown it into the campfire....? He told me that there was a deleted scene that showed him (after they'd arrived at Alexandria) fashioning a collar out of a paper plate.

Oh. Deleted scene. I see. A paper plate. 😏 I won't bother wondering where they got paper plates and how a paper plate collar has held up without even a wrinkle and remains pure white after all these years. Another example of something - like the Whisperers -  that's fine in a comic book but not in live action. TPTB really don't seem to comprehend the difference.

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So many people have had chances to kill Negan, and yet no one does, even when they really should. And thats not a "I am sick to death of this character and he did so many evil things that I cant even" kind of way (at least, not all), but his continued existence just makes no sense within this universe based on what we have seen or established. I still dont get why Rick didnt just let him die, or why he wasnt executed or exiled for his crimes. I dont get why the Whispers are letting him join them despite the fact that everything about Negan is diametrically opposed to them and their aesthetic. I liked Negan as a villain, and there are some moments with him that I still find to be at least interesting (like last week when he met the Negan fanboy) but he has long since moved past his narrative relevance. The time spent with him seems like time better spent with other characters or moving other plots along, not sticking Negan with another random plot. 

I mean, Negan and Beta were basically a wacky sitcom all of the sudden! When the only way the Whispers work is if they're scary and mysterious! The post-apocalyptic Odd Couple isnt scary OR mysterious! " He is a hulking silent lunatic who wears dead people on his face! He is a constantly chattering murderous gym teacher who enjoys beating people to death with his phallic symbol! Can they live together in a zombie horde without driving each other crazy?!?"

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12 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

" He is a hulking silent lunatic who wears dead people on his face! He is a constantly chattering murderous gym teacher who enjoys beating people to death with his phallic symbol! Can they live together in a zombie horde without driving each other crazy?!?"

I think I might like that show more than I do this one.

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

his continued existence just makes no sense within this universe based on what we have seen or established.

Of course it makes no sense, but no one puts Baby Kirkman Negan in the corner!

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17 hours ago, diebartdie said:

I did too but I realize, that is a very unpopular opinion around here these days. I thought all the Negan stuff tonight was hilarious.

After all the Negan hate on the forum recently, I was going to come post here something like:
"Come on, you have to admit that was funny".  Negan's a very boyish 53.

I do agree it was a pretty decent episode.  Each subplot was at least somewhat interesting.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I still dont get why Rick didnt just let him die, or why he wasnt executed or exiled for his crimes.

They didn't want him exiled because he might go off and put together a new group of Saviors, and come back for revenge.

The Whisperers have been tolerating him so far because he may have valuable information on the "enemy" to give them.

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7 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Just take a bit clothesline about three feet long. Tie one end of it to the bed frame. Tie the other end around the patient's ankle

penis.

IF you can find it.

4 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

They really need to end this show. I like the idea of Daryl and Carol riding west and going from there. It’s time for a spin off. This has gotten so stale and rank even possums wouldn’t eat it. They really don’t know how to write their way around Vegan. 

Carol, Daryl & DOG!!!  My wet dream come true, and no naughty bits ever touch.

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3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I still dont get why Rick didnt just let him die, or why he wasnt executed or exiled for his crimes. I dont get why the Whispers are letting him join them despite the fact that everything about Negan is diametrically opposed to them and their aesthetic.

Well, see, Carl of the fourth-grade education wrote a deathbed letter urging it.  So Rick twisted himself into knots extracting a larger meaning of it all that everybody should get to live at the end of that long bloody war, you know, except for all that random Savior foot soldiers who weren't Negan he killed along the way.  Something about building a society, blah blah blah.

The choice was always either to kill him or imprison him.  Remember how the discontented Saviors were looking to start something before the bridge incident and now think about how much worse that would have been had Negan been out there somewhere for them to rally around.  Negan was at least a useful symbol in that jail cell.  Free, he would always be a danger of rolling up on their doorsteps again as the Governor 2.0.

It's clear that Beta realizes Negan doesn't fit at all with the Whisperer shtick and may very well prove a disruption to their way of doing things.  He was near desperate to kill him to prevent that.  But Negan succeeded in getting Alpha's attention and interest.  She's the one calling the shots despite being completely off her rocker, he might have some useful inside information on the communities, and most importantly the script says so, so yeah.

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24 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

It's clear that Beta realizes Negan doesn't fit at all with the Whisperer shtick and may very well prove a disruption to their way of doing things.

Yes. Heaven forbid anything should disrupt their lifestyle of wandering the forest all day, sleeping on the ground, being filthy, wearing dead skin on their heads and eating larvae and raw pigs. And now they're stuck with this motor-mouthed dumbass.

28 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Free, he would always be a danger of rolling up on their doorsteps again as the Governor 2.0.

I miss the Gov. He knew how to shut up and not one single time did he brag about his dick or his balls. I miss the Claimers. They would have known how to deal with Alpha.

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5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So many people have had chances to kill Negan, and yet no one does, even when they really should. And thats not a "I am sick to death of this character and he did so many evil things that I cant even" kind of way (at least, not all), but his continued existence just makes no sense within this universe based on what we have seen or established. I still dont get why Rick didnt just let him die, or why he wasnt executed or exiled for his crimes. I dont get why the Whispers are letting him join them despite the fact that everything about Negan is diametrically opposed to them and their aesthetic. I liked Negan as a villain, and there are some moments with him that I still find to be at least interesting (like last week when he met the Negan fanboy) but he has long since moved past his narrative relevance. The time spent with him seems like time better spent with other characters or moving other plots along, not sticking Negan with another random plot. 

I mean, Negan and Beta were basically a wacky sitcom all of the sudden! When the only way the Whispers work is if they're scary and mysterious! The post-apocalyptic Odd Couple isnt scary OR mysterious! " He is a hulking silent lunatic who wears dead people on his face! He is a constantly chattering murderous gym teacher who enjoys beating people to death with his phallic symbol! Can they live together in a zombie horde without driving each other crazy?!?"

So Negan is kind of a Walter Matthau and Beta Jack Lemmon?😀  That's fine with me for the time it will last.  15 centimeters of snow by -25 celsius is on the way, I need a laugh!

71ZM+MgzV4L._RI_.jpg

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