S04.E08: Sorry

[Crs97]

4 hours ago, Dani-Ellie said:

To her, he was pushing her to go to a doctor when she thought she was perfectly fine.

Based on my mil, she also might not want to go to the doctor precisely because she knows she’s not fine.  We lived across the country, and her conversations grew more and more disjointed.  We flew in with the kids to spend a week with her and one of the many plans was to see her doctor to get a baseline checkup “for our comfort.”  Apparently, once my husband got her in the office she flipped, telling everyone he was forcing her to be there for no good reason.  But she knew and was just afraid, and her default for confusion was anger.  She refused to see us for the rest of our visit, even the kids, because she realized she didn’t know their names anymore.

It took three more flights for my husband  to get her here in an independent living that quickly turned to assisted living and then memory care.  We are exhausted.  I don’t know if I can do this with Rebecca, too.

[ams1001]

24 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I ping my phone all day long from my apple watch so Randall, take a seat please - and when I don't feel like getting up to get my phone I also ping it and won't stop pinging it until someone in house to brings it to me.   

I live on the second floor and my parking spot is more or less right under my living room window. More often than not it's just hiding in my bag and I didn't feel it (and black phone in black bag is hard to see). Or my coat pocket. A few times it's actually been in the car, but depending on where in the car it is I might not be able to see the light, anyway. I just try to avoid going back downstairs unless I absolutely have to, is what I'm saying.

This is 99.9% of what I use my landline for.

28 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Based on my mil, she also might not want to go to the doctor precisely because she knows she’s not fine.

I do that with routine things just because I'm an anxious sort (let's just say I relate to Randall and Tess on the panic attacks). I've always been more or less healthy, and I had a very small possibility of something bad recently which turned out to be nothing serious, but it took me weeks to force myself to make the appointment. Sometimes the fear of finding out you're right paralyzes you. Probably more so when it's your mind that is what's slipping.

[TV Diva Queen]

3 hours ago, Kktjones said:

So do we really think Toby was THAT excited about Jack eating his first solid food? Everything between he and Kate feels so forced and fake these days. I have a really bad feeling about where this relationship is headed...

Right?  So over the top, as was Kate's demeanor while Toby was feeding him.

I guess I missed my kids first solid food too.  Is that even a thing?  I've got these Greek and Italian grandmothers feeding my kids what ever they felt like, so I 't its a milestone in our community.  LOL.  Also, I missed their first steps and the daycare they went to pretty much potty trained them.  My kids are well adjusted college students who I believe do not resent me for missing these milestones.

Edited November 13, 2019 by TV Diva Queen

[ECM1231]

10 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

Hmm - since they had sex, will Cassidy become pregnant w/Kevin's future son?

That's exactly where my mind went.  Perhaps if that is the case, something happened to Cassidy and Kevin is raising their son on his own. The timeline seems to fit. 

[tennisgurl]

Its annoying how Kevin seems to end up sleeping with every woman he spends time with, but I also think its indicative of how Kevin relates to people. He really does, on some level, think that his looks and his charm are the only things he can offer people, so when he likes a woman (even in just a friend kind of way) he usually ends up sleeping with her, because thats what he thinks women only want from him. 

Or the writers are just kind of in a rut when it comes to writing their characters. I hope its the first one.

[izabella]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Its annoying how Kevin seems to end up sleeping with every woman he spends time with, but I also think its indicative of how Kevin relates to people. He really does, on some level, think that his looks and his charm are the only things he can offer people, so when he likes a woman (even in just a friend kind of way) he usually ends up sleeping with her, because thats what he thinks women only want from him. 

I think it's also a way for Kevin to get the attention and approval he didn't get as a child.

[Kktjones]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

OK, and Kevin's son wasn't 15. So if Cassidy does end up the mother of Kevin's son (whether or not they end up in a romantic relationship), it's not from this encounter. Thanks!

I could have sworn that at the end of last season the show runners indicated it was a 12 year time jump (I recall b/c many of us thought it had to have been longer based on Tess' age). Anyway, if that's the case, and it's been at least 6 months since the end of S3 and Kevin's son appeared to be 10-11, the timing is perfect for it to be Cassidy's. I'll look for the article and then take it to the Spoilers discussion topic.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Right?  So over the top, and was Kate's demeanor while Toby was feeding him.

I guess I missed my kids first solid food too.  Is that even a thing?  I've got these greek and italian grandmothers feeding my kids what ever they felt like, so I dont its a milestone in our community.  LOL.  Also, I missed their first steps and the daycare they went to pretty much potty trained them.  My kids are well adjusted college students who I believe do not resent me for missing these milestones.

Given the circumstances of Baby Jack's birth, I am not surprised to see both Kate and Toby being over the top.  It's also Toby's nature.  Jack is also the only child they will ever have, so I forsee both of them going overboard with everything.  Kate is spending too much time on the Internet reading up on how to be the "perfect" mom.  That way lies madness, but Kate is in too deep and cannot see that yet. 

I hope in the second part of the season we get more Kate storylines.  Right now, I can't help but think that Kate is alone with Jack all day with the walks with the neighbor being her only regular trip outside.  The show has not established if Kate has some kind of outlet like Toby going to the gym.  Did Kate find another kindermusik class for Jack?  Does she have girls nights with Madison? etc.  

[TV Diva Queen]

9 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Given the circumstances of Baby Jack's birth, I am not surprised to see both Kate and Toby being over the top.  It's also Toby's nature.  Jack is also the only child they will ever have, so I forsee both of them going overboard with everything.  Kate is spending too much time on the Internet reading up on how to be the "perfect" mom.  That way lies madness, but Kate is in too deep and cannot see that yet. 

I hope in the second part of the season we get more Kate storylines.  Right now, I can't help but think that Kate is alone with Jack all day with the walks with the neighbor being her only regular trip outside.  The show has not established if Kate has some kind of outlet like Toby going to the gym.  Did Kate find another kindermusik class for Jack?  Does she have girls nights with Madison? etc.  

Yeah - but no.  I was 38 with my first.  several late term miscarriages, gestational diabetes...the whole sha-bang.  My first was supposed to be my only one, too then wait what.....9 months later I was pregnant again.  I hear what you're saying and I respect it - but their reactions were in my opinion over the top.  

[mommalib]

I love the connection between Rebecca and Randall. He's clearly her favorite kid lol, and I actually love that too.

Teen Kate's boyfriend is a major jackass and I can only imagine how much worse he's gonna get.

[TV Diva Queen]

Just now, mommalib said:

I love the connection between Rebecca and Randall. He's clearly her favorite kid lol, and I actually love that too.

Teen Kate's boyfriend is a major jackass and I can only imagine how much worse he's gonna get.

I wonder if Kate had a baby with him or a terminated pregnancy with him? 

[athousandclowns]

11 hours ago, Sarah Heart said:

I'm still wondering  if Cassidy  and Kevin are completely over , you never know with this show.

I'm really getting to like uncle Nicky, I see they have introduced  some of Jack's traits, into his personality. 

Omg  I've lost my phone so many times  usually  when it's on mute! I'm not going to like  Rebbeca and dementia,  no , not at all.

Beth sure is odd these days, I was hoping I'd still like her, but I don't.  I do like Kate with her neighbor. Looking forward  to the big three and Thanksgiving 

I'm still upset with the dog switch.  I debated watching  after reading here first because dementia is what I’m frightened of most.  I thought  the alarmed look from Randall after her misplacing her phone was out of place.  Does her looking at her phone “all day” also set off further alarm of impending dementia ? Her loosing her temper with Randall seems out of place but one misplaced phone I would not be concerned.   We laugh at how much time we have to spend looking for either glasses a phone or keys daily. I have simple tracker on keys.  I have a good friend that is a retired psycho therapist and he assures me I’m showing no signs.  
It is way worse now but I’ve been loosing things like my lunch money on the one block walk to school for a lifetime.  It’s absurd to think a senior would not  know their dog. I don’t care if it was her husbands dog it belongs to them. Not ok. 
Maybe Kevin can relax now. 
The first solid food was dumb too.  He’s gotta be there? That’s a new one. She looks like she’s going to break down holding that terrible secret in. 

[CJRocks]

Did anyone else wonder why there were so many bananas in this episode?  Is there some significance that I'm missing?

Teenage Kate took a banana for lunch, then Baby Jack wouldn't eat the bananas, and finally, the sheets at Randall's house had bananas on them. (And, yes, it was weird that the bed wasn't already made.)

[Guest]

I laughed when I realized Rebecca's lost phone was supposed to be A SIGN.  Especially since it turns out she had put it down pretty close to where she was.

Deja wanting her mom to come for Thanksgiving is pretty understandable seeing as she lived with her mom until 2 Thanksgivings ago? I know her grandma was there too and her mom was in and out of jail, but the way they had her give her up for adoption and then just not be around (when we clearly saw she and Deja loved each other) has been such a weird plot from the get go. Of course Deja's going to want to see her - it isn't like this is a birth mom she found doing an ancestry DNA kit after years of wondering about her parentage!

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

He also called Randall "Randy," and implied that only 12-year-old girls would want to watch a movie with Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman. The writers are really setting him up as a dick.

A dick, at the very least. He also called Rebecca, Rebecca. I know they are all fairly progressive parents, but that seemed weird to me.

I'm on board with the spec that Cassidy is pregnant as a result of her and Kevin hooking up. They wrapped up her story in too neat a bow for it to end there.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, deaja said:

I laughed when I realized Rebecca's lost phone was supposed to be A SIGN.  Especially since it turns out she had put it down pretty close to where she was.

I don't know if it was her misplacing so much as her panic at not being able to find it, which was, in my opinion, out of the range of normal reaction. I mean, I know I'd freak out if I lost my phone, but not 5 minutes after missing it, especially when I know I'd just had it. To me, she's giving off the vibe of someone who knows that something is wrong but is doing everything she can to deny it. When my mom first started showing symptoms, she absolutely got angry with anyone who suggested there was anything wrong, no matter how gently (which Randall certainly was not). Unfortunately, having a filter over her words was also one of the first things to go - when she was angry or upset, anything could be said. 😞

[DFWGina]

15 hours ago, PepSinger said:

To be perfectly honest, I’d marry a guy just for the help to put a fitted sheet on the bed. *shrug*

Now they have fitted sheets with deep pockets for larger mattresses.  Back in the day - not so much...  

15 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I wonder if Cassidy will ever tell her husband that she slept with Kevin while they were on a break (assuming they get back together), or if it will remain a secret she keeps from him.  The latter is probably the wiser choice.

"But they were on a break"

I can't imagine they introduced us to Cassidy in the season opener without more purpose than we've seen so far.  

[3 is enough]

I can’t stand bananas, so Baby Jack’s aversion to them makes perfect sense to me. 😄

[MamaBird]

I learned how to fold a fitted sheet from a laundromat attendant in 1973, when I was a 20-year-old newlywed.  Even my mother didn't know, and she was fascinated when I showed her.

I thought a Pearson Speech would be what got Nicky out of jail time, but was surprised that Nicky was the one to deliver it.  I figured it would be Kevin.

I agree with the others who've said it's time we learn more about Katie-Girl's first boyfriend and where that relationship went.  We've seen quite enough ominous foreboding!  When he snotted that "Practical Magic" was for 12-year-old girls, after hearing that Kate wanted to see it, in my mind Kristin Wiig appeared in a flowing red dress, intoning "RED FLAG".*

*SNL fake perfume commercial

[albinerhawk]

Last season, the show did its best to throw red herrings and make us all think that Randall and Beth's marriage had failed. Then the season finale revealed them still happily married.

Therefore, I'm not ready to proclaim doom for Toby and Kate's marriage.

Also I have three kids under 5. My oldest 4, and I was pretty much like Kate, trying to follow all the guidelines. My second kid refused to eat until she was 8 months old. (We finally figured out she was too independent to be spoon fed and had her use her own fingers.) We freaked out until the dr explained that solid food eating from 6 months to 12 months was basically practice. I completely get why Kate was being anal about the food chart. My youngest just turned 6 months old, and I'm being much more lenient.

Edited November 13, 2019 by albinerhawk

[Neurochick]

15 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

What’s a girl gotta do to get a real storyline with Tess and Annie? What's going on between them? How do they feel about being totally pushed aside and all their parents’ attention and fawning going to Deja?

What's interesting about this comment is that we know from the flash forward that either Tess or Annie is still on the scene, I wonder what happened with Deja, since she is featured so much.

I think I know why Deja is featured so much on the show.  She's a teen and perhaps to many viewers a teenager's story is more interesting that a little girl or a tween's storyline, at least it is to me.  Just because people are on a TV show from day one only means they've been on the show since day one.

But, I wonder about what happened 20 years ago between Randall and Rebecca that seemed to upset them both.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Neurochick

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Its annoying how Kevin seems to end up sleeping with every woman he spends time with, but I also think its indicative of how Kevin relates to people. He really does, on some level, think that his looks and his charm are the only things he can offer people, so when he likes a woman (even in just a friend kind of way) he usually ends up sleeping with her, because thats what he thinks women only want from him. 

Or the writers are just kind of in a rut when it comes to writing their characters. I hope its the first one.

It could be some of both.  I feel like the writers objectify him, and he sort of objectifies himself, as a way of keeping others from truly knowing him.  Putting the sex encounter in probably is going to have ramifications, though I'm not so sure because Jennifer Morrison is listed as a special guest star, so maybe this really is a limited run.  I hope so, anyway.  The arc with Kevin, Nicky and Cassidy was well done, they helped each other, with relatively little melodrama.  I also liked how they had a lot of their interactions in and around the car.  Their scenes just worked organically. 

[Neurochick]

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I hated that Rebecca got a job for which she wasn't qualified just because a Pearson man talked the manager into hiring her. That's not how life works. The fact that Randall got a scholarship to CMU was completely irrelevant since he wasn't the one who had to learn the software, and I wish the manager had told him as much. And then Rebecca had the nerve to complain that it's an entry-level job! We've never seen her work or even mention a job before (apart from the singing gigs), so of course any job she would get at any age would be entry-level.

Actually that IS how life works.  Many people get jobs because of WHO they know, not what they know.   Randall said this is who my mother is, and I can teach her the software.  No different from someone being hired because they know someone or are related to someone in the organization.

[LoveLeigh]

9 hours ago, Kktjones said:

So do we really think Toby was THAT excited about Jack eating his first solid food? Everything between he and Kate feels so forced and fake these days. I have a really bad feeling about where this relationship is headed...

I think it feels forced and fake because she is so damn difficult and he has to work so hard to not make her doubt everything he says or does. If he doesn't make a big deal about the "firsts" Kate will question if he really loves Jack. 

He has to watch every word he says and worry about her reactions. Who could live like that? He can't relax for a minute around her, she will question why he seems disinterested. She is a real pain in the ass. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I agree with @Racj82 about why Cassidy and Kevin shouldn't be having sex. Isn't there an unwritten rule about not getting into a new relationship your first year sober (I think Cassidy is still pretty newly sober)? I really wish more shows would acknowledge that men and women can be friends. (That said, when Kevin was taunting the guy in the bar by saying he bet he could get the guy's wife naked in 10 minutes, I was like " ... I mean, probably." Justin Hartley could ABSOLUTELY get it.)

Yes, there is an unwritten rule in AA not to enter into a new relationship your first year, and there's also an unwritten rule that you don't sleep with your newly recovering, often tenuously sober AA fellows because it could very easily trigger a relapse.  Sex makes things messy, people get emotionally invested, and they fall off the wagon.  So, @Lily H, that's why it was a big deal, why Nicky was so mad at Kevin, and why Kevin went into self-loathing mode; it wasn't as simple as two single people having sex.

And Justin Hartley, baby,

Seriously, I saw him at Ralph's in the year before this show premiered, and I remembered him from Revenge.  I was like,

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

But repeatedly saying, "Shame on you!" like that?

I agree.  I can't imagine that  Nicky, a man who has spent the last thirty-some years living in regret and remorse, would ever shame someone else for a much lesser "crime."

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Actually that IS how life works.  Many people get jobs because of WHO they know, not what they know.   Randall said this is who my mother is, and I can teach her the software.  No different from someone being hired because they know someone or are related to someone in the organization.

I agree that many jobs hire based on who you know, but I think hiring based on a teenager promising to help their mom learn something isn’t the same unless the owner knows the kid.

[TV Diva Queen]

51 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It could be some of both.  I feel like the writers objectify him, and he sort of objectifies himself, as a way of keeping others from truly knowing him.  Putting the sex encounter in probably is going to have ramifications, though I'm not so sure because Jennifer Morrison is listed as a special guest star, so maybe this really is a limited run.  I hope so, anyway.  The arc with Kevin, Nicky and Cassidy was well done, they helped each other, with relatively little melodrama.  I also liked how they had a lot of their interactions in and around the car.  Their scenes just worked organically. 

I just read a piece on social media on how a parents best conversations with their kids happen in the car.  I noticed this was happening too on the show.  It has to be with the no eye contact aspect.  

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

But, I wonder about what happened 20 years ago between Randall and Rebecca that seemed to upset them both.

I think Randall just meant that he's been taking care of her since Jack died.

[Lily H]

4 hours ago, Racj82 said:

This is not just two single consenting adults having sex.

Except that that's exactly what this is. Or did I miss the scene where Kevin held her down and forced her? Cassidy is a grown, experienced woman and quite capable of deciding if she does or doesn't want to have sex with Kevin. SHE decided that she did.

If, later on, both feel that it shouldn't happen again, then fine. It's not a big deal. Do people really think Cassidy the marine is going to disintegrate just because she (gasp) had sex with Kevin? I'm sure it wasn't exactly a trauma.

And as for these supposed "unwritten rules" laid down by AA -- unwritten rules are not laws and they are going to AA voluntarily, so they are both free to do whatever they damn well please without getting anyone else's permission. AA sounds an awful lot like a religious cult.

[gonzosgirrl]

15 minutes ago, Lily H said:

And as for these supposed "unwritten rules" laid down by AA -- unwritten rules are not laws and they are going to AA voluntarily, so they are both free to do whatever they damn well please without getting anyone else's permission. AA sounds an awful lot like a religious cult.

The point of going to AA is to have some structure and guidance in order to get and stay sober. If you're going to ignore the 'unwritten rules' whenever it suits, or pick and choose which ones you will follow, then you might as well not go. There is some pretty sound logic behind not getting involved with someone until you have a handle on your recovery. Apart from that, it's a 'cult' that has saved a lot of lives.

Edited November 13, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[meep.meep]

My ex was in AA.  It kinda is like a religious cult.  It also seemed like a meat market looking in from outside.  Which makes sense, because it's all about getting people to talk about their feelings.  When people communicate without bullshit, it leads to attraction.

And Randal's concern over Rebecca wasn't just her losing her phone - it was her calling him Congressman, then losing the phone, finding out that it was a replacement phone for the last one she lost, the way she was obsessing over it, etc.  A bit heavy handed, but that's how this show rolls.

[tribeca]

All of Jacks grand romantic gestures the sexy thing he has done on this show is helping Rebeca make the bed.   

[bichonblitz]

Well, I guess I married a winner because my husband not only helps me with the fitted sheet, he also puts the flat sheet on himself because he learned in the Air Force how to do it perfectly and nobody can fold corners the way he can and have the same amount of sheet hanging on both sides of the bed! 

[memememe76]

I am a little over the Big 3's age and if my mom came to my workplace and took photos of every corner of my office, I would be going WTF too. I would be questioning why my mom was doing that. 

[Haute Messe]

6 hours ago, jalady said:

Resting Bitch Face.  Coincidentally, another Kate (the one on "Below Deck") made it famous on these boards, LOL.

Yes, but Kate on Below Deck refers to it as "bitchy resting face"

[Ohmo]

13 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Randall looked at Rebecca real weird when she was showing him pics of baby Jack. I think the pics she was showing were of one of her own children and he realized she was losing her memory. 

I thought the weird look came when she wanted to take pictures of Randall's office and everyone who works with him, but I agree with your overall point.  Not only did she lose the phone, but she was also using the phone to take pictures in order to buttress her memory.  I think that's what Randall noticed, along with things like her defensive behavior.

[Haute Messe]

1 hour ago, Lily H said:

And as for these supposed "unwritten rules" laid down by AA -- unwritten rules are not laws and they are going to AA voluntarily, so they are both free to do whatever they damn well please without getting anyone else's permission. AA sounds an awful lot like a religious cult.

Except that it's not "unwritten rules". It is all written out in the 12 steps in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous". They are not rules or laws, it is a suggested program of recovery from a disease of the  body and mind. Most alcoholics when they get sober have a lot of unresolved baggage, guilt, shame and remorse that they can no longer numb themselves with booze, and have to deal with those issues. Dealing with them and being of service to others is what keeps people sober. Just going to meetings and listening to "drunkalogues" is not a recipe for recovery.

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The point of going to AA is to have some structure and guidance in order to get and stay sober. If you're going to ignore the 'unwritten rules' whenever it suits, or pick and choose which ones you will follow, then you might as well not go. There is some pretty sound logic behind not getting involved with someone until you have a handle on your recovery. Apart from that, it's a 'cult' that has saved a lot of lives.

Exactly! Grateful to say it saved mine 17 years ago.

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

My ex was in AA.  It kinda is like a religious cult.  It also seemed like a meat market looking in from outside.  Which makes sense, because it's all about getting people to talk about their feelings.  When people communicate without bullshit, it leads to attraction.

Yep, the old 13th step.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

But, I wonder about what happened 20 years ago between Randall and Rebecca that seemed to upset them both.

I think Randall just meant that he's been taking care of her since Jack died.

I'm going to add to that and speculate that Randall will be the one to notice that Marc is mistreating Kate and intervene after Rebecca misses the signs. He will become the adult in the family,  taking on the Jack role, and displacing his mother.

This probably also made it hard for Randall to pull back once Miguel reentered the picture, although in truth he should have been grateful to have Miguel marry Rebecca so that he could focus his energies on his own family.

The whole family should appreciate Miguel now, since he will be bearing the brunt of Rebecca's care going forward. I presume Randall will be questioning Miguel about Rebecca next episode. Will Miguel agree that something is wrong, or will he resent the implication that he cannot take care of her and needs Randall's interference?

Finally,  I hope Miguel installed a tracking app in Rebecca's new phone.

Edited November 13, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Yeah, why was he even driving her at all?

Maybe it had to do with Rebecca's bridge phobia that was referenced a couple of seasons ago? Though if that's the case, she wouldn't be able to drive herself to and from work every day either. 

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Putting the sex encounter in probably is going to have ramifications, though I'm not so sure because Jennifer Morrison is listed as a special guest star, so maybe this really is a limited run.

Heather Locklear was a "special guest star" on Melrose Place, and she was in almost every episode of the show's run. 😁

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Actually that IS how life works.  Many people get jobs because of WHO they know, not what they know.   Randall said this is who my mother is, and I can teach her the software.  No different from someone being hired because they know someone or are related to someone in the organization.

What you're talking about is called nepotism, but that wasn't the case here. The manager didn't know either Rebecca or Randall and didn't owe them, or any of their mutual connections, any favors. He had no reason to believe Randall's claims, especially since it didn't matter in this context whether Randall could learn/teach the software, it mattered whether Rebecca could learn it, and there was no indication from either the interview or Randall's speech that she could. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I agree.  I can't imagine that  Nicky, a man who has spent the last thirty-some years living in regret and remorse, would ever shame someone else for a much lesser "crime."

I think he was projecting. Nicky had destroyed lives in Vietnam on a much larger scale and was still mad at himself. That's why he later apologized.

Edited November 13, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Maybe it had to do with Rebecca's bridge phobia that was referenced a couple of seasons ago? Though if that's the case, she wouldn't be able to drive herself to and from work every day either. 

 

Heh...I actually thought of that after I posted, but I have no clue where in the timeline the bridge thing came up.

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

 

Heh...I actually thought of that after I posted, but I have no clue where in the timeline the bridge thing came up.

It came up when the Big Three were 9 or 10, with kid Randall distracting Rebecca with nerdy facts when Jack had to drive over a bridge. BTW, Pittsburgh is probably the worst place for someone with a bridge phobia since it has 446 of them. 

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, Lily H said:

Except that that's exactly what this is. Or did I miss the scene where Kevin held her down and forced her? Cassidy is a grown, experienced woman and quite capable of deciding if she does or doesn't want to have sex with Kevin. SHE decided that she did.

If, later on, both feel that it shouldn't happen again, then fine. It's not a big deal. Do people really think Cassidy the marine is going to disintegrate just because she (gasp) had sex with Kevin? I'm sure it wasn't exactly a trauma.

And as for these supposed "unwritten rules" laid down by AA -- unwritten rules are not laws and they are going to AA voluntarily, so they are both free to do whatever they damn well please without getting anyone else's permission. AA sounds an awful lot like a religious cult.

What I mean and what other people mine they aren't just two consenting adults having sex is that it's not JUST that. You are zeroing in on the consenting part when that's not what others are focusing on.

At the end of the day, neither of them really need to make their lives more needlessly complicated right now and hooking up does that.

He's in the middle of trying to help a friend mend her marriage and then he sleeps with that woman. Yes, they both wanted it. That's not the point. It's not something either of felt that they SHOULD of done for reasons that have been laid out already.

[cardigirl]

Beth bugged me big time this episode.  I know she thought she was being cute about the 'date' but mostly she was just being annoying. The end. 

[marceline]

I found this episode interesting in that it showed just how much patterns repeat themselves in the Pearson family.

Nicky had his court appearance for throwing the chair through a window because he was upset that his therapist was leaving him. Kevin went to a bar and even though he didn't drink he managed to indulge another form of self-destructive behavior by starting a fight.

Malik reminding Beth that Deja has already mentioned wanting to see her mother only to have Beth and Randall blow it off reminded me of how young Randall called out Jack for letting him give up on the all-black dojo. In both cases, the parents took an out in order to spare themselves uncomfortable situations despite what the child really needed.

Randall and Rebecca fighting over her "senior moments" reminded me of how defensive Randall got when Beth suggested he start seeing a therapist for his anxiety.

Also, Mandy Moore's acting as aging Rebecca really has improved a lot over the years. It used to be that when I looked at her I saw Mandy Moore in old-age makeup but there was something about her facial expressions and mannerisms in this episode that makes me think she's been working really hard to observe the tics of aging.

[Empress1]

22 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I'm going to add to that and speculate that Randall will be the one to notice that Marc is mistreating Kate and intervene after Rebecca misses the signs. He will become the adult in the family,  taking on the Jack role, and displacing his mother.

I would guess that you're right, given that Randall was the one to point out that Kate was overeating (Rebecca didn't even notice Kate's weight gain until Kate herself told Rebecca that Kate had gained 25 pounds, and even then Rebecca's response was "don't worry about it") and Kevin was drunk all the time in the immediate aftermath of Jack's death. I have a former boss with whom I am still in contact and she told me she was "numb for the first year" after her husband left her; Rebecca seems to have gone similarly numb.

12 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

He's in the middle of trying to help a friend mend her marriage and then he sleeps with that woman. Yes, they both wanted it. That's not the point. It's not something either of felt that they SHOULD of done for reasons that have been laid out already.

Right - they both clearly regret it. I can think of a number of times where I've willingly slept with someone (I'm thinking of one person in particular, a toxic ex) and afterward was like "I so should not have done that." Everything was consensual; it was just a bad choice I made and not at all what I needed to be doing. That's the space Kevin and Cassidy seem to be in.

23 minutes ago, lizajane said:

Except that it's not "unwritten rules". It is all written out in the 12 steps in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous". They are not rules or laws, it is a suggested program of recovery from a disease of the  body and mind. Most alcoholics when they get sober have a lot of unresolved baggage, guilt, shame and remorse that they can no longer numb themselves with booze, and have to deal with those issues. Dealing with them and being of service to others is what keeps people sober. Just going to meetings and listening to "drunkalogues" is not a recipe for recovery.

Thanks for this information. I don't have much experience with AA so I used "unwritten rules" incorrectly. (I had a friend whose father is in recovery and he told me that he tried AA but all the "drunkalogues" depressed him more and made him want to drink.) I have a cousin who is in recovery and goes to NA meetings, but he doesn't talk about it much.

8 minutes ago, marceline said:

Also, Mandy Moore's acting as aging Rebecca really has improved a lot over the years. It used to be that when I looked at her I saw Mandy Moore in old-age makeup but there was something about her facial expressions and mannerisms in this episode that makes me think she's been working really hard to observe the tics of aging.

I just wish she would change her voice.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Empress1

[ItCouldBeWorse]

7 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

congressman

Councilman, not Congressman.  Are you doing ok?

[buckboard]

4 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Councilman, not Congressman.  Are you doing ok?

What do you mean?  Rebecca's called her son Congressman, was one of several clues to Randall that she is having a problem, much more than her just misplacing the phone.

[ShadowFacts]

24 minutes ago, marceline said:

Randall and Rebecca fighting over her "senior moments" reminded me of how defensive Randall got when Beth suggested he start seeing a therapist for his anxiety.

Denial, resistance, refusal to recognize a problem.  It's so common, it's probably the first reaction many people have when confronted with something uncomfortable. Kevin didn't want to face his addiction until he was forced to after his DUI.