S01.E02: The Idea of North

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

Lyra starts her new life in London, determined to find Roger with Mrs Coulter’s help. The Gyptians continue their search for the missing children and the elusive Gobblers.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As a non book reader, I'm enjoying the surprises. Mrs. Coulter seemed too good to be true when she swooped in and offered to take Lyra away last week so it's not  surprising that she isn't the savior she appeared to be, but what WAS surprising was how quickly she showed her ruthlessness and cruelty when her daemon attacked Lyra's.

Love that Lyra used her Catwoman/parkour skills to escape in the midst of the party. I can't wait to see who lured her into the alley and grabbed her.

[Kasienka]

I enjoyed the second episode much more than the first. Ruth Wilson is great as Mrs Coulter, I wasn't sure at first, now I'm fully convinced she will do a great job in the whole show. I was surprised how quickly they revealed Lyra's parentage

Spoiler

(at least half of it)

and that they already showed us travel between worlds. I also like how importance of daemons was shown on screen. It was a good way to introduce this concept to people who never read the books.

Edited November 11, 2019 by SilverStormm
Tagged potentially spoilerish comment

[izabella]

15 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

As a non book reader, I'm enjoying the surprises. Mrs. Coulter seemed too good to be true when she swooped in and offered to take Lyra away last week so it's not  surprising that she isn't the savior she appeared to be, but what WAS surprising was how quickly she showed her ruthlessness and cruelty when her daemon attacked Lyra's.

Non-book reader, non-movie-watcher....I was suspicious of her from the moment I saw her, so I was not at all surprised she's a cruel asshole with a nefarious agenda.  I would have been surprised if she had turned out to be kind and helpful, actually.

This episode was upsetting for me to watch, and I'm not sure why.  I don't like animal warfare, and butterfly crushing, I guess., on top of kidnapping and child imprisonment.  Child trafficking and child imprisonment in cold cells is a real world thing and this might hit too close to home for me.  I'll give it one more episode, but it's not entertaining or compelling as much as it is grim.  If this is fantasy, there's no fun in it.

Edited November 12, 2019 by izabella

[Bulldog]

I can't help but notice that all of the daemons shown so far are on the smallish side and of a rather docile nature.   Where are the elephants, giraffes, lions, tigers, bears (oh my!)?

Ruth Wilson should really have it put in her contract that she gets a bonus for every long tracking shot of Mrs. Coulter walking down a hallway.  This show really seems to love those.

Since we now know the uncle is really the father (now there's a Jerry Springer episode for you!), are we suppose to think that Coulter is the mother? (Non-book reader - just speculating - I really have no idea.)

[Cranberry]

No spoilers in my small daemons response, but I do mention some book stuff, so I answered in the book questions thread!

I liked this episode even more than the first. There was a little more action now that they've gotten the general world-building and character introductions out of the way, and I feel like we saw more daemons in general this week, which I appreciated.

Ruth Wilson is killing it as Mrs. Coulter. She always looks about two seconds away from snapping. That fight between Pan and the golden monkey was genuinely scary.

[HunterHunted]

7 hours ago, Bulldog said:

I can't help but notice that all of the daemons shown so far are on the smallish side and of a rather docile nature.   Where are the elephants, giraffes, lions, tigers, bears (oh my!)?

Not only am I curious about impractically large daemons, I'm wondering if people ever end up with a daemon that looks like animal they've never seen. Lord Asriel's daemon is a large cat. It might be the biggest one we've seen so far.

It turns out that having actual proof of the human soul (daemons) means that people are still awful to each other. Good to know that never changes regardless of which Earth you're on.

Quote

Since we now know the uncle is really the father (now there's a Jerry Springer episode for you!), are we suppose to think that Coulter is the mother? (Non-book reader - just speculating - I really have no idea.)

Only if it comes in a reveal like this:

[Enigma X]

Yeah. I was not surprised that Coulter was a nice person. I was confused by the guy who killed the journalist because I thought he was helping Azrael.

[Mr. Sparkle]

6 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Ruth Wilson is killing it as Mrs. Coulter. She always looks about two seconds away from snapping.

She really does the "cold facade with rage just simmering underneath" thing well. 

[iMonrey]

So apparently if you kill someone's daemon you kill the person. That makes having a butterfly or an insect as a daemon rather dangerous, I'd think. Something that small might accidentally be killed during the course of the day. Also, if you can order your daemon to attack someone else's then that's something I'd expect to see in the schoolyard playground on a regular basis.

I'm intrigued by the concept of traveling to our world, although I still haven't grasped who a lot of these characters are. I also don't understand if this doorway/portal thing is something that's just always there or if they're doing something to create it each time. What's to stop some random passer-by from finding it?

[ribboninthesky1]

Not a book reader, but did watch The Golden Compass.  One thing I don't recall from Nicole Kidman's version of Mrs. Coulter compared to Ruth Wilson's is how the latter's daemon constantly turned away from her.  I know the show made a point of how far Coulter's daemon can be from her, but I thought it was more striking how even when close by, it was wary of her. 

I didn't mind the film version of Lyra, but this version is kind of annoying.  I want her to reunite with Roger, find Azriel, and learn to use the alethiometer, but I also want her to shut up sometimes (same with Billy Costa's mother). I was partially rooting for Coulter to send her back to Jordan College.                  

[Katsullivan]

4 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I know the show made a point of how far Coulter's daemon can be from her, but I thought it was more striking how even when close by, it was wary of her. 

The show didn't even make their own point well because of the stark absence of daemons in scenes.  After several shots of Mrs Coulter and Lyra walking side by side where their daemons were nowhere to be found, Lyra's shock that the monkey was so far away from Mrs Coulter fell flat for me. This is what I complained about after watching the first episode: how are we supposed to miss something that is rarely ever there?

Also, that the show created a black female character to make the connection from G.O.B. to Gobblers for Lyra (in the movie, she connects the dots herself) only to brutally murder her in the next scene reached new levels of low. 

[scrb]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Something that small might accidentally be killed during the course of the day. Also, if you can order your daemon to attack someone else's then that's something I'd expect to see in the schoolyard playground on a regular basis.

But Pan can morph into a large animal so why are people stuck with butterflies?

Maybe sometimes if a daemon can morph into a tiny insect like a flea or mite that can only be seen under a microscope, it can avoid being attacked?

[Cranberry]

You don't get to choose your daemon's final form, unfortunately; it's a representation of your personality (in episode one, Lyra was saying that Pan wanted to be a lion but she guessed he'd settle as a sloth or a guinea pig, to which Pan countered that Lyra was hoping for something cunning like a fox). I guess some people simply have butterfly or beetle-like personalities, which would suck. Imagine getting a housefly or something... what would that say about you?

[AnimeMania]

7 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Also, that the show created a black female character to make the connection from G.O.B. to Gobblers for Lyra (in the movie, she connects the dots herself) only to brutally murder her in the next scene reached new levels of low. 

I had kind of guessed who was behind the Gobblers for the wrong reason. Hearing of the General Oblation Board, I was thinking the "Obla" from Oblation was the origin, so the "G" from General and the "Obla" from Oblation gives you "G Obla". Make it plural by adding a "S" and you end up with "GOblas", which sounds like "Gobblers". I guess I was wrong.

Oblation is an offering to a "God". How do they feel about God/religion in this world? I am not really sure which topics are forbidden in this world, but the college professors seem to say that "some topics" are forbidden quite often.

[AnimeMania]

8 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Lyra's shock that the monkey was so far away from Mrs Coulter fell flat for me.

How would that work for a bird daemon if it has to be within 2 or 3 feet of you at all times. It would never be able to fly anywhere and would never have enough speed to stay in the air.

[scrb]

I'm surprised the abducted kids weren't more in shock.

You wouldn't think they'd be placated by the idea of going on some trip and writing to their parents.

[tennisgurl]

Now that we got some of the world building and character introductions out of the way (as much as I enjoyed all of that!) I am glad that we are moving the plot along more. As a book reader I was surprised to see so much getting revealed, like Lyra's father and the crossing between worlds. I am still really liking the show, and I was really happy to see more daemons this week! And we got to see more of how much people and their daemons are physically and mentally connected. That fight between Pan and Mrs. Coulter's monkey was actually really intense, especially as Pan kept changing shapes to try and fight or get away. I wish that the journalist didnt get killed off so quickly though, along with her pretty butterfly daemon.  

Its interesting that the show is going with a bit of an art deco kind of vibe in its costumes and decorations, while also having some steampunk in it as well. 

I always wondered if some people really engage in daemon judgement in this world, considering people dont pick what their daemons turn out to be, they become something that says something about what kind of person they are, like the northern explorer guy and his arctic fox and that so many of the Gyptians seem to have daemons that are known for travel, like birds and felines. Like, when someone meets someone with a snake daemon, are they like "well, definitely not gonna be quick to trust you." or something? And not just because the guy we met with the snake daemon is clearly sneaky and untrustworthy! 

Poor Lyra, things seemed to be so looking up for her, and now things are just getting worse and worse. 

I cracked up at the guy in what looks like our world asking if he can see the guys daemon. I mean, thats probably what a lot of people would be like. "Yeah yeah plan plan lets see your soul snake!"

[AnimeMania]

36 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I cracked up at the guy in what looks like our world asking if he can see the guys daemon. I mean, thats probably what a lot of people would be like. "Yeah yeah plan plan lets see your soul snake!"

Someone who has a talking snake might give us a clue about what happened in the bible.

[ribboninthesky1]

18 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

The show didn't even make their own point well because of the stark absence of daemons in scenes.  After several shots of Mrs Coulter and Lyra walking side by side where their daemons were nowhere to be found, Lyra's shock that the monkey was so far away from Mrs Coulter fell flat for me. This is what I complained about after watching the first episode: how are we supposed to miss something that is rarely ever there?

Also, that the show created a black female character to make the connection from G.O.B. to Gobblers for Lyra (in the movie, she connects the dots herself) only to brutally murder her in the next scene reached new levels of low. 

Yeah, I can understand why intermittently showing them disrupts the narrative, though I confess it doesn't bother me much so far. 

Funny that you reference the black female character, as I had similar thoughts.  I was hoping she would be a significant character, but nope, just a cipher for Magisterium cruelty. 

15 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I guess some people simply have butterfly or beetle-like personalities, which would suck. Imagine getting a housefly or something... what would that say about you?

I assumed it was intentional that the Magisterium characters we've seen so far have reptiles or bugs as daemons.  

I went and looked up a summary of the other books, and well...my interest in the show has waned a bit.  I'll continue to watch to see how it plays out. 

[scrb]

Slate has a podcast recapping the show.  I think the hosts have read the books and seen the movie.

They noted for instance that the one guy crossing over into modern Oxford is a departure from the book and movie, because it's much earlier and it's a different modern world than in the book or movie.  They didn't like the smart phone.

I thought it was London, with the double decker bus saying Oxford Circus, which is a square or place in London -- but maybe also in Oxford as well.

They raised an interesting point, that smaller daemons could be vulnerable to larger animal predators, though I guess the person would have to defend the daemon in that case.  But what if a bird ate some small insect whole?

They said Coulter is showing conflicted feelings about Lyra.  She wants to make Lyra heel but not completely crush her spirit?

[Speakeasy]

Ruth Wilson is absolutely great and that goddamn monkey is going to haunt my nightmares, the daemons in this version are, for budget reasons I assume, pretty low key but they're done very well when the focus is on them.

Snakey going to our world was jarring, I was expecting us to get immersed in Lyra's world for a bit longer first.

I find the Gyptians completely unengaging, I'm not sure what it is about them.

On 11/13/2019 at 4:27 AM, Katsullivan said:

Also, that the show created a black female character to make the connection from G.O.B. to Gobblers for Lyra (in the movie, she connects the dots herself) only to brutally murder her in the next scene reached new levels of low. 

That was upsetting and unnecessary, and contrived besides. Scary man in black drags you into his car and your incredibly vulnerable intelligent projection of your soul just lands on his hand? Ok.... 

Also... You die if your daemon dies, but what do you die of? Would police in this world be able to identify daemon-death as different from other causes of death?

That being the case I wonder if this lady's death will actually have an impact, since Snakey was working with Coulter and the other Magisterium people seemed to disapprove of her, maybe this kind of gratuitous cruelty is used as a pretext to go after them? 

[Lemur]

On 11/12/2019 at 7:15 AM, Enigma X said:

Yeah. I was not surprised that Coulter was a nice person. I was confused by the guy who killed the journalist because I thought he was helping Azrael.

No, Lord Boreal is Magisterium through and through.  He was at the Magisterium HQ in the first episode and he was more than happy to "dispose" of that pesky journalist at Mrs. Coulter's party.  Asriel is anti-Magisterium.

On 11/13/2019 at 7:22 AM, AnimeMania said:

I had kind of guessed who was behind the Gobblers for the wrong reason. Hearing of the General Oblation Board, I was thinking the "Obla" from Oblation was the origin, so the "G" from General and the "Obla" from Oblation gives you "G Obla". Make it plural by adding a "S" and you end up with "GOblas", which sounds like "Gobblers". I guess I was wrong.

Oblation is an offering to a "God". How do they feel about God/religion in this world? I am not really sure which topics are forbidden in this world, but the college professors seem to say that "some topics" are forbidden quite often.

It's long title is General Oblation Board Of London, so G.O.B.O.L.  Phonetically, Gobble.  

As for religion, they've been pretty up front that the Church is the State in Lyra's world and that the Magisterium and it's various arms including the GOB, are the government.  

On 11/13/2019 at 8:02 AM, AnimeMania said:

How would that work for a bird daemon if it has to be within 2 or 3 feet of you at all times. It would never be able to fly anywhere and would never have enough speed to stay in the air.

They can clearly go further than that - see the birds in the scenes where the Gyptians raid warehouse. 

21 hours ago, scrb said:

I'm surprised the abducted kids weren't more in shock.

You wouldn't think they'd be placated by the idea of going on some trip and writing to their parents.

A good many of them seemed to be street kids, so I don't know know if they even knew they were abducted. A good many of them seemed to be under Ms. Coulter's sway, except Roger who was doing his best to get a coded message out to Lyra. 

5 hours ago, Speakeasy said:

Also... You die if your daemon dies, but what do you die of? Would police in this world be able to identify daemon-death as different from other causes of death?

Sudden cardiac death?  Stroke?  Take your pick. 

[Enigma X]

Grumble on my typos. I meant to say that I was not surprised that Coulter wasn't a nice person. 

[Lemur]

5 hours ago, Speakeasy said:

Ruth Wilson is absolutely great and that goddamn monkey is going to haunt my nightmares, the daemons in this version are, for budget reasons I assume, pretty low key but they're done very well when the focus is on them.

So this is some random and canon-though-not-in-the-book trivia that spoils nothing, the monkey's name is Ozymandias.  (Asriel's snow leopard is Stelmaria.)

Anyone else notice the completely different demeanors of the daemons in the bath scene? 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Lemur said:

On 11/13/2019 at 8:02 AM, AnimeMania said:

How would that work for a bird daemon if it has to be within 2 or 3 feet of you at all times. It would never be able to fly anywhere and would never have enough speed to stay in the air.

They can clearly go further than that - see the birds in the scenes where the Gyptians raid warehouse. 

This is what I was hinting at, why can a bird daemon be far away from a person without anybody questioning it and a monkey daemon be half as far away and everybody thinks it is a miracle.

Edited November 14, 2019 by AnimeMania

[Lemur]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

This is what I was hinting at, why can a bird daemon be far away from a person without anybody questioning it and a monkey daemon be half as far away and everybody thinks it is a miracle.

Answer is here.

[Shenanigan]

I'm not sure how I feel about this show after two episodes (non-reader). It's not that I don't think the actors are doing a good job, it's just that everyone is so...grim. Grim and serious. I'm really longing for a character with some panache, some joie de vivre.

That being said, I have to at least tip my hat to any show that makes me mutter out loud, "I can't tell what her monkey really thinks about all this."

[scrb]

2 minutes ago, Shenanigan said:

I'm not sure how I feel about this show after two episodes (non-reader). It's not that I don't think the actors are doing a good job, it's just that everyone is so...grim. Grim and serious. I'm really longing for a character with some panache, some joie de vivre.

That being said, I have to at least tip my hat to any show that makes me mutter out loud, "I can't tell what her monkey really thinks about all this."

YMMV.

I look forward to HDM more than The Watchmen.

[Bill1978]

Hmmmm, I had moments of boredom in this episode and then there were moments of excitement. I know the movie has problems, but after this episode I feel the sotry is better suited to a 2.5 hour movie rather than 8 television hours. I am resisting re-watching the movie until this season is finished, but I really felt this part of the story dragged on, not really sure why.

Wasn't that thrilled with the visit to our world, I feel it's too early to bring that in but I think they have taken this approach as they need to pad the story out to fill the episode count.

I'm wondering if

Spoiler

they have introduced it this early to reveal that the first visit inspired the experiments in The North. In our world we don't have deamons but can live, so this inspired the Magisterium to see if it's possible to live in their world without daemons.

I'm surprised that no one has stumbled upon the rip in space, surely Lyra with all her exploring would have stumbled across that at some time. Or is that not in the place she grew up in? Can I accidentally travel to another universe just by casually walking into that rip?

On 11/15/2019 at 5:52 AM, Shenanigan said:

it's just that everyone is so...grim. Grim and serious. I'm really longing for a character with some panache, some joie de vivre.

I agree, just one character who is bouncy and happy

[Katsullivan]

On 11/15/2019 at 10:43 PM, Bill1978 said:

I had moments of boredom in this episode and then there were moments of excitement. I know the movie has problems, but after this episode I feel the sotry is better suited to a 2.5 hour movie rather than 8 television hours.

Pretty much this.

[Affogato]

On 11/16/2019 at 12:43 AM, Bill1978 said:

I agree, just one character who is bouncy and happy

Pan is pretty darn bouncy. 

[Kasienka]

22 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Pan is pretty darn bouncy. 

TBH I feel like Pan's barely in it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[paramitch]

On 11/11/2019 at 7:06 PM, izabella said:

This episode was upsetting for me to watch, and I'm not sure why.  I don't like animal warfare, and butterfly crushing, I guess., on top of kidnapping and child imprisonment.  Child trafficking and child imprisonment in cold cells is a real world thing and this might hit too close to home for me.  I'll give it one more episode, but it's not entertaining or compelling as much as it is grim.  If this is fantasy, there's no fun in it.

There are a ton of beautiful, light and fantastical moments in the books. But yes, the stakes are high, and involves children in definite peril. This may not be for you.

On 11/12/2019 at 4:04 AM, HunterHunted said:

Not only am I curious about impractically large daemons, I'm wondering if people ever end up with a daemon that looks like animal they've never seen. Lord Asriel's daemon is a large cat. It might be the biggest one we've seen so far.

It turns out that having actual proof of the human soul (daemons) means that people are still awful to each other. Good to know that never changes regardless of which Earth you're on.

Only if it comes in a reveal like this:

The daemon is an externalization of its person's soul. I would imagine elephant or lion daemons are rare (as noted in this episode). It's far more likely people's daemons would fix on what is appropriate to their humans. In too many cases, this would mean small animals, insects or birds. How many people would truly have elephantine souls? As magnificent as that would be?

On 11/12/2019 at 9:36 AM, iMonrey said:

So apparently if you kill someone's daemon you kill the person. That makes having a butterfly or an insect as a daemon rather dangerous, I'd think. Something that small might accidentally be killed during the course of the day. Also, if you can order your daemon to attack someone else's then that's something I'd expect to see in the schoolyard playground on a regular basis.

Spoiler

Touching another person's daemon is strictly sacrosanct. It is not done. Ever. Even in combat, it's a no-no. So what we saw here from Lord Boreal (and from Mrs. Coulter) was abomination. The person is sickened and weak just from someone touching their daemon, especially trapping it. The problem is, some people are so charismatic or commanding, the daemon approaches of its own free will. Then... crunch.

On 11/12/2019 at 8:27 PM, Katsullivan said:

The show didn't even make their own point well because of the stark absence of daemons in scenes.  After several shots of Mrs Coulter and Lyra walking side by side where their daemons were nowhere to be found, Lyra's shock that the monkey was so far away from Mrs Coulter fell flat for me. This is what I complained about after watching the first episode: how are we supposed to miss something that is rarely ever there?

Also, that the show created a black female character to make the connection from G.O.B. to Gobblers for Lyra (in the movie, she connects the dots herself) only to brutally murder her in the next scene reached new levels of low. 

I don't get the upset over the reporter's fate, since the show is rich with characters of color across the board. I was fine with it from a story perspective and it is true to the books.

I know you're hung up on this, but there are a variety of believable reasons for the daemons not to be in every single shot. As we saw from this episode, Pantalaimon can be far enough from Lyra to ascend to the ceiling of her room while she is in bed. It's not a matter of "1-2 feet." What Lyra was shocked at was that Mrs. Coulter was far down a very long hallway, and her daemon was alone and shut away in her office. Which is much more extensive and unusual based on what the characters have shown us.

Last but not least: I went back and looked, and there are daemons in a ton of shots, but they are often off to the side or stationary. They are close by, but not within "a foot or two" of their humans, which may be why you have missed some.

On 11/12/2019 at 10:32 PM, scrb said:

But Pan can morph into a large animal so why are people stuck with butterflies?

Maybe sometimes if a daemon can morph into a tiny insect like a flea or mite that can only be seen under a microscope, it can avoid being attacked?

Only children's daemons can change. And insect daemons are safe most of the time even if appearing fragile, because all daemons are intrinsically fragile as 'soul-creatures.'

As noted above,

Spoiler

there is a strict "do not touch" about other people's daemons.

On 11/13/2019 at 5:02 AM, AnimeMania said:

How would that work for a bird daemon if it has to be within 2 or 3 feet of you at all times. It would never be able to fly anywhere and would never have enough speed to stay in the air.

It doesn't.

Spoiler

Bird-daemons (and others, for instance, dolphins) simply have to be appropriately and believably nearby. So a sailor can have a dolphin daemon... but they can't go ashore. Daemon-shapes bring their own challenges.

On 11/13/2019 at 9:47 AM, scrb said:

I'm surprised the abducted kids weren't more in shock.

You wouldn't think they'd be placated by the idea of going on some trip and writing to their parents.

The kids were soothed by writing to their friends and parents. It helped to convince them that they were part of something benign and normal.

On 11/13/2019 at 11:05 AM, AnimeMania said:

Someone who has a talking snake might give us a clue about what happened in the bible.

Which gives us a delicious subtext to Lord Boreal's daemon, maybe. I never thought of it this way before, but I love it. Especially since he's so pro-Magisterium.

On 11/13/2019 at 2:50 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

I went and looked up a summary of the other books, and well...my interest in the show has waned a bit.  I'll continue to watch to see how it plays out. 

I'm bummed that this is how you would judge whether or not to go forward. it's a gorgeous tale. It really is. But if it doesn't hold you, then maybe it's not your cup of tea. But reading some hasty condensed spoilers (I promise) simply does not do them justice. This is an incredible and satisfying, complex story, so I hope you stick with it.

On 11/13/2019 at 5:07 PM, scrb said:

They noted for instance that the one guy crossing over into modern Oxford is a departure from the book and movie, because it's much earlier and it's a different modern world than in the book or movie.  They didn't like the smart phone.

They raised an interesting point, that smaller daemons could be vulnerable to larger animal predators, though I guess the person would have to defend the daemon in that case.  But what if a bird ate some small insect whole?

They said Coulter is showing conflicted feelings about Lyra.  She wants to make Lyra heel but not completely crush her spirit?

Spoiler

They're not accurate on that aspect. The crossing of Lord Boreal is entirely true to the trilogy. He's been doing it for years (even decades). We just don't learn that he can do so until later in the books. But the time period of him doing so is 100% true to the books.

Predators will not hunt daemons because they can sense that they aren't animals in the real sense. So a bird isn't going to try to eat your cricket daemon, or a cat try to eat your mouse daemon. Etc.

My take on Mrs. Coulter is that she seems intense, secretive and strong-willed but she also genuinely seems to feel something for Lyra. Even if she's willing to crush Lyra to get her to behave as desired. Mrs. Coulter probably crushes everyone she meets.

On 11/14/2019 at 2:12 AM, Speakeasy said:

That was upsetting and unnecessary, and contrived besides. Scary man in black drags you into his car and your incredibly vulnerable intelligent projection of your soul just lands on his hand? Ok.... 

Also... You die if your daemon dies, but what do you die of? Would police in this world be able to identify daemon-death as different from other causes of death?

I don't mind that daemons have their own wills; they also seem to me to be shown here as being more trusting and innocent, perhaps. We saw this with the daemons of the child taken in episode 1, and of Pan's fascination (that got Lyra captured) here. It adds complexity to the puzzle. The daemon doesn't just do what you tell it. It has its own mind.

It's very simple: The daemon is your soul. If your soul dies, you die. And vice versa.

On 11/14/2019 at 8:13 AM, Lemur said:

Anyone else notice the completely different demeanors of the daemons in the bath scene? 

I loved that. The monkey is a male (every daemon is always the opposite sex of its human), so it is grumpily turning its back while Lyra bathes. I loved that.

On 11/14/2019 at 8:40 AM, AnimeMania said:

This is what I was hinting at, why can a bird daemon be far away from a person without anybody questioning it and a monkey daemon be half as far away and everybody thinks it is a miracle.

The monkey daemon was locked in a completely different room (and on a different floor). I would imagine a bird daemon would fly within 20-30 feet of its person (or accompany them on a shoulder most of the time, as we saw with the master in episode 1). This was much, much farther than normal.

Edited December 19, 2019 by paramitch
toned down a bit of my over-the-top rhetoric ;)

[cleo]

This is much grimmer than I thought it would be, as I thought it was a kid's book. I enjoyed this ep much more than the first. I was really afraid the snake would eat the butterfly and I would have to ff that. Torturing kids by taking their demons away will also be a ff for me. 

A little surprised the confrontation between Coulter and Lyra happened so soon.

I am completely unspoiled. Co fused about what kind of animal Pan is. A ferret? Doesn't seem quite right 

 

[Athena]

20 hours ago, cleo said:

I am completely unspoiled. Co fused about what kind of animal Pan is. A ferret? Doesn't seem quite right 

 

Pan hasn't settled on a shape yet. He is often an ermine.

[cleo]

@Athena thank you, ermine. It was driving me nuts trying to figure that out 

[cherenkov]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:06 PM, izabella said:

This episode was upsetting for me to watch, and I'm not sure why.  I don't like animal warfare, and butterfly crushing, I guess., on top of kidnapping and child imprisonment.  Child trafficking and child imprisonment in cold cells is a real world thing and this might hit too close to home for me.  I'll give it one more episode, but it's not entertaining or compelling as much as it is grim.  If this is fantasy, there's no fun in it.

You're unlikely to find this show to your liking. A lot of fantasy is fun, but a lot of it is dark and grim. Fantasy doesn't mean that every topic is light, and a lot of it is absolutely downright horror. Ultimately with entertainment if you are not enjoying it, the better choice is to find a different story.