Charmed - General Discussion

Aethera · October 31, 2019

This topic replaces the old Charmed forum which has been vaulted at the location below: https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/879-charmed-v/

magicdog · January 4, 2020

Well, Rose McGowan has something to say about recent political events:

https://www.weaselzippers.us/441149-actress-rose-mcgowan-has-possibly-the-worst-soleimani-tweet-she-apologizes-to-iran/

Pearson80 · January 15, 2020

I am re-watching season 1 and it feels me with so much joy and sadness. The season has so many clues on how powerful the sisters would be.. I love the darkness and the soundtrack is awesome, it really sets the mood of the show. The chemistry between the three ladies is just magical, no pun intended. It is too bad it went left in season 3.

Season 3 is the beginning of the end for me. Constance is gone and Brad Kern now runs the show. Prue will die at the end of the season due to Shannen's firing. The prominence of Leo was a foreshadowing of the the male takeover of the show. I have always loved the sisters in season 1, figuring out their battles on their own without Leo's input and the useless elders. The character assassination of Phoebe Halliwell was vile. Phoebe's enthusiasm for magic and zest for life was so endearing in season 1 and 2. Phoebe betraying the power of 3 and her sisters should have had consequences. They also ruined the sisters powers in season 3. Piper should have gotten an offensive power at the beginning of this season while Phoebe gets a defensive power towards the latter half that would help her and her sisters defeat Cole.. Also, the sisters original powers should have grown throughout that season. Morality bites of season 2 gave us a glimpse on what was to come and it is too bad it never materialized.

I also wanted them to get stronger with their spellcasting abilities. They were very powerful witches. I always loved that Phoebe had that down pat. I loved her helping Prue cast a spell to help an innocent in season 2. I wish we had seen the sisters curse demons and bless innocents throughout the series. I also wish we had seen them face demons that was specific to a particular sister because of her unique abilities. Evil human beings should have been a part of their ongoing battle with evil. It would have been interesting to see how they would neutralize them. Past Warren witches should have been a part of the show. It would have been cool to see future Warren Witches summon the sisters to their time to help them with a problem that needed the power of 3.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Pearson80

Rockstar99435 · January 16, 2020

6 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

It would have been cool to see future Warren Witches summon the sisters to their time to help them with a problem that needed the power of 3.

I always really wanted to see some granddaughters show up*. All of the sisters went back and interacted with Patty and/or Penny. It would've been fun to see that storyline from the other side. How would the sisters react if three random witches showed up using their powers and knowing things about their house? And if they did it in Season 7, it could've also been used as a way to bring some peace to Piper and Leo that the boys are okay, that Chris's sacrifice was worth it, and that baby Chris grew up in a happy time.

*This might have happened in Season 8, but I've never been able to make it past the first few episodes. I've rewatched the series a couple of times and I always start to petter out mid Season 7, taking longer and longer in between episodes, that by Season 8, I just sort of forget that I'm watching the show. I don't hate the later seasons. The individual episodes are fine/enjoyable when I watch them; I don't really care about any of them anymore. Then when I remember that I'm doing a rewatch, it's been so long that I end up starting the show over again.

helenamonster · January 16, 2020

24 minutes ago, Rockstar99435 said:

*This might have happened in Season 8, but I've never been able to make it past the first few episodes. I've rewatched the series a couple of times and I always start to petter out mid Season 7, taking longer and longer in between episodes, that by Season 8, I just sort of forget that I'm watching the show. I don't hate the later seasons. The individual episodes are fine/enjoyable when I watch them; I don't really care about any of them anymore. Then when I remember that I'm doing a rewatch, it's been so long that I end up starting the show over again.

It didn't happen in Season 8--you see some grandchildren in the finale's flashforward but that's about it.

Pearson80 · January 20, 2020

On 1/15/2020 at 7:17 PM, Rockstar99435 said:

I always really wanted to see some granddaughters show up*. All of the sisters went back and interacted with Patty and/or Penny. It would've been fun to see that storyline from the other side. How would the sisters react if three random witches showed up using their powers and knowing things about their house? And if they did it in Season 7, it could've also been used as a way to bring some peace to Piper and Leo that the boys are okay, that Chris's sacrifice was worth it, and that baby Chris grew up in a happy time.

It would have been cool to see those three random witches using their warren powers and seeing the contrast in power between the girls and the charmed ones.

I always wanted Piper to have had three daughters with her mortal husband as an homage to the power of 3. I always hated her relationship with Leo, it contributed to her unpleasantness after Prue died. I think having a mortal husband would have grounded her in the normalcy she always craved in the madness they lived in as witches. If I had my way, Leo would not have come back in season 2. Instead Andy would be alive in season 2 and continue his push/pull dynamic with Prue. Losing him caused her to become super witch in season 3 and it overshadowed her sisters. I always wanted Phoebe to become superwitch since she embraced her legacy without any fear or hesitation. I could see her honing her premonition powers, her spell casting abilities and getting an excellent knowledge of the book of shadows. Wyatt would be Prue's son with Andy and I could see Phoebe falling for a good male witch and having Chris as their son and a daughter.. I never saw Paige with children. For once I would love a show to have a woman who loves children but has no desire to be a mother.

magicdog · February 4, 2020

Shannen Doherty's cancer has returned.

On 1/20/2020 at 3:09 PM, Pearson80 said:

I always wanted Piper to have had three daughters with her mortal husband as an homage to the power of 3.

I don't mind that she had two sons (and her youngest being little Melinda) since one could fanwank that the Charmed prophecy came to pass, so sons could be born. I personally would have preferred that sons had been born into the Warrens (but lacking Charmed powers) but be able to father daughters who could have powers.

On 1/20/2020 at 3:09 PM, Pearson80 said:

If I had my way, Leo would not have come back in season 2. Instead Andy would be alive in season 2 and continue his push/pull dynamic with Prue. Losing him caused her to become super witch in season 3 and it overshadowed her sisters.

Initially Leo was NOT supposed to be back after Season 1, but apparently both viewers and TPTB liked him enough to stay. I didn't mind him, but I think the character and his relationship with Piper could have been handled better. Andy died when he did because the actor wanted out (my guess is he was aware of the toxic set and wanted to slip out gracefully). I did miss him though; Prue likely wouldn't have "died" if he were still around (since he'd be a pointless character without her).

On 1/20/2020 at 3:09 PM, Pearson80 said:

I never saw Paige with children. For once I would love a show to have a woman who loves children but has no desire to be a mother.

Actually, considering her character's history (and that of her husband) Paige having a family makes sense. Paige lost her adoptive parents as a teen and she craved family. She got that to a degree with her half sisters, but I can see her wanting to have kids down the road. Her husband was a foster kid and didn't have a great childhood either, so I can also see him wanting a stable home and family. If anyone would likely have ended up childless (had she lived) it would have been Prue. However, as we saw in Reckless Abandoned, she and her sisters did grow to like having a baby around and were willing to concede maybe it might be nice to be a mom when ready.

On 1/15/2020 at 4:17 PM, Rockstar99435 said:

I always really wanted to see some granddaughters show up

We sorta got that when Chris and Wyatt stopped by - even though Chris was originally meant to be something else entirely (that was so sloppy!) ad as mentioned, we saw the witchy little ones at the very end of the series.

On 1/15/2020 at 10:03 AM, Pearson80 said:

They also ruined the sisters powers in season 3. Piper should have gotten an offensive power at the beginning of this season while Phoebe gets a defensive power towards the latter half that would help her and her sisters defeat Cole.. Also, the sisters original powers should have grown throughout that season. Morality bites of season 2 gave us a glimpse on what was to come and it is too bad it never materialized.

ITA! Does anyone remember the thread in which we posed what powers the sisters would (or should) have had? The sisters were supposed to have three powers each: one offensive power, one defensive power and one passive power. Not to mention all the little extensions of each power (like Prue's 2nd self being independent, Piper briefly rewinding time a few seconds, Phoebe using her empathy in her visions, etc.). The characters really were cheated. I had posed that we should have had a return to the Cal Green storyline with the sisters' powers having grown to the point we saw in MB, and Phoebe having to deal with her inner desire to avoid using her powers to kill Green (who in the altered future, perhaps tries to rape Paige).

Pearson80 · February 4, 2020

40 minutes ago, magicdog said:

ITA! Does anyone remember the thread in which we posed what powers the sisters would (or should) have had? The sisters were supposed to have three powers each: one offensive power, one defensive power and one passive power. Not to mention all the little extensions of each power (like Prue's 2nd self being independent, Piper briefly rewinding time a few seconds, Phoebe using her empathy in her visions, etc.). The characters really were cheated. I had posed that we should have had a return to the Cal Green storyline with the sisters' powers having grown to the point we saw in MB, and Phoebe having to deal with her inner desire to avoid using her powers to kill Green (who in the altered future, perhaps tries to rape Paige).

If Shannen and Constance had remained with the show and Cole was written as pure evil as Constance wanted, then, I could see Cal Greene coming back. I think that Cal should have hurt a good friend of Phoebe's. I don't think Cal a human could hurt a powerful witch like Paige.

I always wanted to see Evil Phoebe and Prue interact. As much as I loved the evil Phoebe story in season 4, it would have had more gravitas with Prue. Paige did not have the history with her sisters like Prue. Evil Phoebe trying to steal the Book of shadows to neutralize her older sisters would have been interesting given the fact that they are more powerful than her. Not to mention with her advanced premonitions, how would Prue and Piper prevent her from using that against them. So many possibilities were lost..

I wanted to close out my post by saying that my heart goes out to Shannen. She is a wonderful actress and Charmed was never the same without her.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Pearson80

magicdog · February 6, 2020

On 2/4/2020 at 12:04 PM, Pearson80 said:

I don't think Cal a human could hurt a powerful witch like Paige.

I think it depends on circumstances. Perhaps if Paige (not knowing the events of MB) met Greene and decided to meet up with him, and he slips her a roofie it could happen. Paige wakes up naked and confused, realized what happened and Phoebe is pissed (or Paige is the one who wants revenge and Phoebe has to do all she can to keep her from doing it). Of course it would help if other elements of MB were in place like Pratt being the new DA (afer Cole's disappearance) and the sisters being mindful of covering their tracks while he becomes suspicious of their involvement in various cases.

Pearson80 · February 6, 2020

2 hours ago, magicdog said:

I think it depends on circumstances. Perhaps if Paige (not knowing the events of MB) met Greene and decided to meet up with him, and he slips her a roofie it could happen. Paige wakes up naked and confused, realized what happened and Phoebe is pissed (or Paige is the one who wants revenge and Phoebe has to do all she can to keep her from doing it). Of course it would help if other elements of MB were in place like Pratt being the new DA (afer Cole's disappearance) and the sisters being mindful of covering their tracks while he becomes suspicious of their involvement in various cases.

I actually felt that should have been the story going in season 4 with Shannen continuing as Prue. In my imagined version of charmed, Cole is vanquished during the penultimate episode of season 3 with Phoebe orchestrating his vanquish with her premonitions that have grown and evolved in season 3. This will have the unintended consequence of Cal Greene coming to town. He is introduced in the season finale as the new DA who intends to find out what happened to his predecessor.

Season 4 could have been about Cal Greene's growing suspicions of the sisters. Phoebe's depression about Cole that leads to her slowly becoming evil is another story that could have played out in that season interwoven with stories about various demon of the week, progressions of their powers, personal lives and career.

I hated how the show got rid of Buckland's so that Prue could become a photographer. Bucklands could have been an environment where Prue interacts with demons and innocents. Being a charmed one, she would always be a demon magnet. The same with Quake, I hated P3 as Piper's business. She was a restaurateur and cooking was her passion and it should have continued on the show.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Pearson80

Kohola3 · March 19, 2020

Awakened is playing this morning. Man, it is eerily familiar with today's events.

kiddo82 · March 23, 2020

I finished a series long rewatch yesterday. After much deliberation (like, a lot, I'm not kidding) these are my top ten all time moments:

10: Running Around the Manor/Screaming in Chick Flick: fun send up of horror movies and the girls inadvertently scaring the hell out of each other is always funny

09: The sisters fight in Power Outage: once upon a time the leads had chemistry to spare. While this often meant that the best moments were playful, it also meant that scenes like this, where the anger as sisters was palpable, could also be fantastic. Great reconciliation scene too. There's a line where after Phoebe storms out and the spell wears off where Piper says, "If something happens to her, I'll never forgive myself." It's such a sincere, big sistery thing to say and it hits me every time.

08: Cole Bites It in Long Live the Queen: really the entire last act is terrific. With Phoebe conflicted in the bathroom and Paige and Piper urging her to join them it's arguably Alyssa Milano's best dramatic episode. The shockwaves of the vanquish shattering all the windows of the penthouse is still cool. And the finale with Piper and Paige wordlessly consoling Phoebe is still a gut punch.

07: Patty Shows Up to Piper's Wedding in Just Harried: I love this moment so much. Strong performances from all four women but I love the look on Piper's face as she's processing her mother being there. HMC's eyes actually redden in real time. I'm not crying. You're crying.

06: The Sisters Lose Their Senses in Sense and Sense Ability: I go back and forth between this one and Sin Francisco as funniest episode of the series. Phoebe thinking Paige hears puppets, the demon literacy debate, Piper not being able to aim her exploding hands et al are still funny to this day. I crack up every time at "OH MY GOD! PIPER, YOU'RE BLIND!"

05: Prue Vanquishes Rodriguez/Let's Andy Die in Deja vu All Over Again: selfless act and one of the most badass vanquishes of the series. Such a bittersweet moment.

04: The Core Cast in Sin Francisco: everyone looked like they were having so much fun playing their sins out! From Leo's sloth to Phoebe's lust to Piper's gluttony and finally to Prue's pride everyone was on point in one of the most quotable and rewatcable episodes of the series.

03: Piper Dies in All Hell Breaks Loose: "Prue, I'm cold."

02: Phoebe's Lesson in Morality Bites: such an effective and dark ending that you really didn't expect from this show. Stellar performance from the ladies. Maybe the best top to bottom episode of the series.

01: "The End" in All Hell Breaks Loose: Hate to end on such a downer but the final scene in AHBL is still a jaw dropper. So eerie with everyone's lives in limbo and the doors slamming shut with the glass shattering and nothing but the sound of the wind. Kudos to Doherty's direction. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding her exit it was a hell of an exclamation point to go out on.

Edited March 23, 2020 by kiddo82

helenamonster · March 23, 2020

14 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

06: The Sisters Lose Their Senses in Sense and Sense Ability: I go back and forth between this one and Sin Francisco as funniest episode of the series. Phoebe thinking Paige hears puppets, the demon literacy debate, Piper not being able to aim her exploding hands et al are still funny to this day. I crack up every time at "OH MY GOD! PIPER, YOU'RE BLIND!"

"PAIGE IS PROPOSING VIOLENCE AGAINST THE MONKEY!" is still an all-time great line.

kiddo82 · March 23, 2020

The scene in Sense and Sense Ability that never gets enough love is when Phoebe is at her syndication meeting. Alyssa just does this oblivious, dumbfounded smile thing and it is still hysterical.

Kohola3 · March 25, 2020

On 3/22/2020 at 9:57 PM, helenamonster said:

"PAIGE IS PROPOSING VIOLENCE AGAINST THE MONKEY!" is still an all-time great line.

My favorite of the entire series.

mammaM · March 25, 2020

On 3/22/2020 at 9:57 PM, helenamonster said:

"PAIGE IS PROPOSING VIOLENCE AGAINST THE MONKEY!" is still an all-time great line.

The best line of the series!!!😂

kiddo82 · March 26, 2020

Alright. These are my top ten best episodes. Not to be confused with my top 10 favorites list , mind you, which is moderately different. These are the ones that I think rise above mainly from an overall production stand point

10. Charmed and Dangerous

A high stakes episode that never lets up. (Even some of the best episodes have lulls.) Cool effects like the explode/freeze one. Love the scenes between Piper and Leo after he’s shot by the arrow. I’ve cooled a bit on this one over the years but it’s still a good episode on rewatch.

09. Déjà vu All Over Again

Just a well done finale all around. Checks off some of your typical finale boxes (the good guys eliminate a threat, character dies, etc) but done in a way that is satisfying and engaging. And this can’t be said enough, Prue’s vanquish of Rodriguez is so bad ass and I love it every time.

08. Chick Flick

Simply put, a great comedic episode. This is what can happen in a lighter episode with great cast chemistry with everyone playing off of one another. And some of the lines are great: (“Hello? Privacy!” “Hello? Ax Murderer!”) Even the B plot has some moments (Don’t mind me. I’m just wandering through your house.”).

07. Extreme Makeover/Charmageddon

Not necessarily a high bar for this series but for my money it’s by far the best two parter they pulled off. Good payoff to the Avatar arc and the effects, writing, and just overall production really stand above a lot of things they did over the course of the series.

06. Power Outage

It’s not flashy but this one is low key great. The entire episode revolves around the Halliwell’s relationship as sisters. The irritations and passive aggression, the giant fight, the remorse, the reconciliation. Also, love the Cole/Phoebe date (they’re so natural with each other and they do work well together). In all honesty, the ladies probably get their powers back a little too easily but the rest of the episode is so good I’ll allow it.

05. Sense and Sense Ability

I’m almost at a loss to describe how entertaining the hijinks in this episode are. I could almost do a top ten comedic moments/lines from this episode alone. And I think Alyssa Milano is a better dramatic actress than she got credit for but her time to shine really was doing stuff like this.

04. Long Live the Queen

Never a personal favorite but it belongs here as a satisfying conclusion to a long arc and has a number of really great moments. (Drunk Piper, Paige being awesome, Cole faking out the ladies and killing the innocent). And soup to nuts the final act is extremely well acted and produced.

03. Sin Francisco

I think the show was usually better with lighter episodes because you had this charismatic cast who, when at their best, just looked like they were enjoying themselves and that makes you as the viewer just go along with it. Sin Francisco might be the peak of that. There are so many great interactions with Prue acting as the straight man due to her pride and calling everyone out on how absurd they are. There’s too much for me to transcribe all here but it’s just fun moment after fun moment.

02. All Hell Breaks Loose

There’s not much to say that hasn’t already been said. The above ground stuff is stellar. The tension at the house, Piper getting shot, Piper dying, “The End”, HMC’s acting, SD’s direction etc. I want to make this my number one but unfortunately the underworld stuff can’t be completely discounted. Having said that, it still features two of my personal top 3 all series moments and still gives me chills after all these years.

01. Morality Bites

Pound for pound, I’d give the a slight edge to this one over AHBL. The highs aren’t quite as high, but it’s a consistently better episode throughout. It’s not a funny episode but there are definitely moments of levity, it’s sad, it’s a little haunting (she burns alive, people!), and all three leads bring it. It’s an honest to goodness really good hour of television.

kiddo82 · March 26, 2020

Top Ten Favorites. These are the ones I'm most likely to stop and watch.

Honorable mention: Sympathy for the Demon

Two scenes get me every time. Piper in the foyer and Piper and Phoebe in the attic. Great job by Combs first and then Combs and Milano in the latter. So natural, underplayed, and sincere.

10. Size Matters

So this one is probably the most out of left field but lately whenever I seem to catch it, I am so entertained. The show was always better when it went for laughs and I kind of dig the back and forth between Piper and Paige and then Phoebe’s grunt while covered in clay after Piper (also kidnapped and covered in clay) says “At least we came for you.” And major credit to the practical effects/makeup/wardrobe/whatever because the covered in clay look did come out really good.

09. Morality Bites

Great episode but not always easy to watch. You have to be in the mood for it.

08. Is There a Woogy In The House

This one might just be for sentimental reasons but, while not the first episode I ever saw, this was the one that sucked me in but good one fateful Wednesday night back in 1999. It’s creepy. It’s snarky. The poofing/materializing effect still looks pretty darn good. And I’ll say this until I’m blue in the face but chemistry among the leads was outstanding at this point and just elevated almost everything.

07. Look Who’s Barking

I’ve always loved this one and thought it was a better episode than it had any right to be based on the premise. Maybe because it’s Piper-centric (she’s my fave) and I could watch her freak out scene in the attic on repeat. That plus when she has to steel herself against Cole and she’s acting tough but you can tell she’s kinda scare shitless on the inside (well played, Combs). That AND Leo being afraid of the dog. It's a fun one with a kind of ambiguous tone at the end that ups the uncertainty going into All Hell Breaks Loose.

06. Chick Flick

05. Be Careful What You Witch For

This one has actually aged better for me over the years. I used to think it was a pretty nondescript finale but I find myself being more and more entertained by certain things (teenage Prue, Piper confronting the genie at the café) and the park scene/aftermath is really good. I know this was Doherty’s MO while she was on the show but she had such a flair for grounding things in reality in her “director’s trilogy” and these are the things that still hold up.*

04. Sense and Sense Ability

03. Power Outage

02. All Hell Breaks Loose

This can’t be said enough. The Piper shot and dying scenes are straight. Up. Cash. Money.

01. Sin Francisco

* I don’t know how intentional a lot of this was, although it’s hard to find it coincidental, but a lot of the violence in the SD directed episodes is very real with very real consequences. Piper just doesn’t just die in All Hell Breaks Loose, she suffers, and Prue has to watch and is powerless to stop it. Piper is in the same position with Prue in Be Careful What You Witch For and again with Phoebe, who is being tortured, in The Good, The Bad, and the Cursed. You also have the presence of real world instruments of violence such as guns, knives, and whips, and in two of those episodes it’s humans who are performing the acts of violence. And there are very subtle touches that I only ever really noticed after all these years such as the blood on Leo’s shirt in Be Careful... after attempting to revive Prue and Prue’s bloody hand prints on Piper’s face in All Hell... after cradling her. There are also the physical effects of violence to both Phoebe and Bo in The Good, The Bad and The Cursed It’s graphic and it’s real without being over the top. And I don’t love The Good, The Bad, and The Cursed, it’s fine, but this is probably at least part of the reason why without even knowing it I still enjoy 2/3 of her episodes after all these years and I rate a lot of these scenes so highly.

Edited March 26, 2020 by kiddo82

Primal Slayer · April 7, 2020

While Ive always had a love for the original Charmed, the reboot has definitely made me appreciate the original 4 seasons and how they dealt with the sisters relationship and powers even more.

On 2/6/2020 at 3:03 PM, Pearson80 said:

I actually felt that should have been the story going in season 4 with Shannen continuing as Prue. In my imagined version of charmed, Cole is vanquished during the penultimate episode of season 3 with Phoebe orchestrating his vanquish with her premonitions that have grown and evolved in season 3. This will have the unintended consequence of Cal Greene coming to town. He is introduced in the season finale as the new DA who intends to find out what happened to his predecessor.

Season 4 could have been about Cal Greene's growing suspicions of the sisters. Phoebe's depression about Cole that leads to her slowly becoming evil is another story that could have played out in that season interwoven with stories about various demon of the week, progressions of their powers, personal lives and career.

I hated how the show got rid of Buckland's so that Prue could become a photographer. Bucklands could have been an environment where Prue interacts with demons and innocents. Being a charmed one, she would always be a demon magnet. The same with Quake, I hated P3 as Piper's business. She was a restaurateur and cooking was her passion and it should have continued on the show.

I definitely feel like had Prue stayed alive, S4 would've set up a human being a main drive in trying to out the sisters as a consequence of turning back time.

I also loved Bucklands and I feel like they could've brought it back around for Prue though they seemd to being leaning towards trying to get the sisters more independent financially so they wouldnt have to come up with ways to get them out of work.

Charmed and Dangerous was such a turning point for the show that it feels like it marked the true end of "classic Charmed". Vanquishing The Source so early in the season lead to the backhalf being so rushed and Phoebe becoming a totally different character immediately after the episode.

On 3/26/2020 at 1:43 PM, kiddo82 said:

* I don’t know how intentional a lot of this was, although it’s hard to find it coincidental, but a lot of the violence in the SD directed episodes is very real with very real consequences. Piper just doesn’t just die in All Hell Breaks Loose, she suffers, and Prue has to watch and is powerless to stop it. Piper is in the same position with Prue in Be Careful What You Witch For and again with Phoebe, who is being tortured, in The Good, The Bad, and the Cursed. You also have the presence of real world instruments of violence such as guns, knives, and whips, and in two of those episodes it’s humans who are performing the acts of violence. And there are very subtle touches that I only ever really noticed after all these years such as the blood on Leo’s shirt in Be Careful... after attempting to revive Prue and Prue’s bloody hand prints on Piper’s face in All Hell... after cradling her. There are also the physical effects of violence to both Phoebe and Bo in The Good, The Bad and The Cursed It’s graphic and it’s real without being over the top. And I don’t love The Good, The Bad, and The Cursed, it’s fine, but this is probably at least part of the reason why without even knowing it I still enjoy 2/3 of her episodes after all these years and I rate a lot of these scenes so highly.

I think it was a very Shannen thing as she wanted the show to grow up and become darker so it's believable that she'd use directing as her advantage to bring some of those elements out as much as she could.

Keywestclubkid · April 9, 2020

i hated how they shifted focus so much to Phoebe in the later seasons but I miss the writers actually cared and wrote stuff that didn't feel like shit being flung and at a wall hoping something sticks like the do in the remake

Pearson80 · April 12, 2020

On 4/9/2020 at 11:38 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

i hated how they shifted focus so much to Phoebe in the later seasons but I miss the writers actually cared and wrote stuff that didn't feel like shit being flung and at a wall hoping something sticks like the do in the remake

Phoebe was so damn useless and selfish.. What really pissed me off about Phoebe was her powers. Her powers never progressed and they were taken away. To be fair, the writers never developed the other sisters' powers to the fullest either. Prue's Telekinesis never really advanced other than throwing demons against the wall. So many things could have been done with her advanced telekinesis. The same goes for Piper's freezing power that was changed from it being time based to molecular, to explain her explosion power. Demons also developed immunity from her freezing power after Constance left in season 3.

The sisters powers were from 3 Essentials of Magic (timing - time related power, feeling - Premontition/empathy and phases of the moon- movement/telekinesis) Piper could have time-related powers. Her power expanded to somehow stop time in a larger scale in mortality bites. We never knew what could have been her advancement, maybe she can create time loops like Tempus, fast-forward, slow down and rewind time. In the reboot version of Charmed, Piper's counterpart Mel could age objects perhaps Piper could develop an offensive power where she can age demons to the point that it kills them. I hated her explosive power with a passion even more so than levitation for Phoebe..

During the Deja vu All Over Again episode, Phoebe sensed that the time kept on repeating because she was a psychic and can see events, but I think Piper could have sensed it too, since her powers were time-related when Constance was there. If Prue was based from Phases of the Moon which was movement.. then she can move things with her mind, move her astral form and move her body from place to place and even teleportation. Paige had too much whitelighter powers and it took away from her Warren powers.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Pearson80

Primal Slayer · April 12, 2020

I think when it comes to powers, they did a fairly good job in S1-5 of advancing their powers.

Prues powers were constantly evolving with her having to use her eyes to move objects, to using her hands, having to see the object, how much weight she could handle. She even began training to try to use her telekinesis in Astral form which given time likely would've happened. I could even see them using her astral projection to do the teleportation, using her astral form to become her physical form.

I didnt have that big of an issue with Pipers powers becoming "molecular" based as its not something they would've known about way back when and likely never thought to look into. Though it is a shame that they never really had her try to do anything inbetween with her powers. I agree if she can slow down/speed up to the point of combustion then she should've been able to do it to a none-lethal degree. Of course they also slowly advanced how far her molecular stasis reached. Demons being able to break through her powers was enjoyable since it showed that she had to become stronger and that they were going up against strongest threats.

Phoebe gaining levitation....yeah didn't make much sense outside of making Alyssa happy. I guess you could say she used her psychic energy to move herself? They let her advance from seeing the future to seeing the past and even in S5 she was able to interact within her premonition but barely used it even though it was nifty when it happened. Cutting her off from both her powers just because of budget....jusy yikes.

Totally agree that when it comes to Paige they focused way to much on her whitelighter side and giving her all the powers of a whitelighter was bad imo. She never should've been able to learn how to heal, TKO/Orbing was enough. But I guess you could use that as a way to get say she wasn't necessarily meant to be and it was Destinys way of getting around the prophecy.

Also wish that they'd had made the Power of 3 as a whole weaker in S4-5 as the Piper/Phoebe learn to grow and accept Paige. Thier bond with her would've taken more time than with the original Po3.

Rockstar99435 · April 12, 2020

I never thought that Piper's combustion power should be connected to her freezing power or that Phoebe's levitation should be connected to her premonitions. Melinda had 3 distinct powers that weren't connected so it made sense to me that the Charmed Ones would also develop 3 distinct powers.

I did want Piper to develop and advance her freezing power into controlling time in more ways (slowing down, speeding up, rewinding, fast forwarding, etc). And I wanted her to develop more control over her combustion power. It would've been cool if along with getting bigger explosions, she could've controlled smaller explosions like lighting candles. Or if she could control it enough to hit multiple targets at once.

Phoebe's premonition power should've developed to the point where she could call up a premonition whenever she wanted. Also, I think it would've been cool if she could go into her premonitions and walk around, looking for clues or whatever. And her levitation should've also developed. I hated her empathy power. It was too undefined and just meant she could do whatever the writers needed her to.

With Paige, it's hard to tell what her witch powers were and how they should've developed because her powers were so intertwined with her whitelighter powers. I think TK was her only witch power and the rest were whitelighter powers. On one hand, it would've been cool for her to get another witch power. On the other hand, she had way too many whitelighter powers and didn't really need anything else.

Pearson80 · April 13, 2020

17 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Phoebe gaining levitation....yeah didn't make much sense outside of making Alyssa happy. I guess you could say she used her psychic energy to move herself? They let her advance from seeing the future to seeing the past and even in S5 she was able to interact within her premonition but barely used it even though it was nifty when it happened. Cutting her off from both her powers just because of budget....jusy yikes.

I despised levitation because Prue could already do it. We have seen her do it while she fights. Phoebe should have developed psychic reflection as her defensive power instead of levitation.

17 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Also wish that they'd had made the Power of 3 as a whole weaker in S4-5 as the Piper/Phoebe learn to grow and accept Paige. Thier bond with her would've taken more time than with the original Po3.

They never said that on the show but in the Charmed comic books it was said that the new power of 3 was weaker than the original one because Prue was the strongest and it added even more power to the collective. The first born witch in a line of witch siblings has the strongest magic. It did not mean that Piper and Phoebe could not develop sronger potent offensive powers over Prue.

8 hours ago, Rockstar99435 said:

I never thought that Piper's combustion power should be connected to her freezing power or that Phoebe's levitation should be connected to her premonitions. Melinda had 3 distinct powers that weren't connected so it made sense to me that the Charmed Ones would also develop 3 distinct powers.

I agree with their 3 powers not needing to be connected as a charmed one. The show never did anything worthwhile with her combustion power. It actually got weaker as the show continued. It just irritated me that it marginalized her freezing power after Prue died. She barely froze and there was so much that could have been done with her freezing power. Plus, I have always had the suspicious feeling that Piper got the combustion power because they knew that Prue and Shannen would not be on the show for season 4.

Commando Cody · May 14, 2020

I haven't watched this show in a while. I left my TV on TNT one night and the final season was on. Which is still terrible. Now that we've reached season 2, the episode 'Ex Libris' is on. I never gave it a thought before, but this time around I found the character of Charlene kind of likeable. I think it's too bad she was only a one time guest and didn't become a recurring character. Although, understandably, the show was about sisters who were powerful witches, calling on her to help might have been too easy. I think she would have worked as a character in other episodes.

kiddo82 · June 14, 2020

I've been listening to a podcast in which the hosts review the show episode by episode. Two of them are familiar with the show (although they don't seem to remember much) and one had never seen it before. Their biggest gripe, at least with the early seasons as I'm only up to their Chick Flick review, is the lack of a through line which is admittedly minor in season 1 and all but absent in season 2 unless you count the Piper/Leo/Dan triangle. It's a valid point but I also find it an interesting debate as I know a lot of people who watched it at the time from the beginning will cite the early seasons as their favorites. Don't get me wrong, the first 6 or so episodes are sloooooow and even I wonder how the show survived past its first November sweeps. Having said that, there seems to be a real appreciation for the characterizations of the early season Charmed Ones and the overall chemistry of the cast which is something the hosts of this particular podcast never really mention. Obviously this is a mileage thing but it's got me thinking about how we've been conditioned to consume television in general over the past ten years or so via binging. In retrospect, I guess I just liked hanging out with these characters and didn't need a particular story line reason to keep coming back week after week. Watching entertaining people simply be entertaining is enough for me. (although who's to say how I would feel now if I was watching the show for the first time without the nostalgia). And the arc/characterizations aren't mutually exclusive. I personally think Charmed really hit its sweet spot in terms of marrying the characters and a story line in season 3, in particular, but also season 4. The podcast is up to season 5 (limited through line. You have crazy Cole and Piper's pregnancy but nothing to take us through the back half of the season) but I'm interested to see what the hosts think when they do season 6, which to me is all arc that never really did anything for me.

Edited June 14, 2020 by kiddo82

Primal Slayer · June 14, 2020

S2 really didnt have a serialized storyline going on apart from the sisters just continuing to come into their own and explore who they are. Serialized television was still fairly new I believe back then so it's not surprising. Charmed was never the greatest show bu the relationship between the sisters is what made it as successful as it was (rated #2 on TheWB) and why I can enjoy it so much. Shannen/Alyssa/Holly felt like sisters, even in S3 when Shannen/Alyssa were feuding they did (imo) a great job of not showing it on camera.

kiddo82 · June 15, 2020

23 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

S2 really didnt have a serialized storyline going on apart from the sisters just continuing to come into their own and explore who they are. Serialized television was still fairly new I believe back then so it's not surprising. Charmed was never the greatest show bu the relationship between the sisters is what made it as successful as it was (rated #2 on TheWB) and why I can enjoy it so much. Shannen/Alyssa/Holly felt like sisters, even in S3 when Shannen/Alyssa were feuding they did (imo) a great job of not showing it on camera.

I couldn't agree more. The early chemistry is really something to behold and still stands out to me after all these years. I think that's part of the reason the show still endures. Now matter how goofy things get, and they can get pretty goofy, you watch a scene or a moment where the girls are interacting and you're like, "that's me and my sisters" or "that's me and my friends." And as I already posted, sometimes it's just fun to watch entertaining people be entertaining. It's also fun to watch people who seem to be genuinely enjoying themselves, which is the sort of thing that shines through on a show like this. Chick Flick works because all the ladies commit to running around the house while crazy movie characters stalk them with sharp objects. And it's fun as hell! ("Hello? Ax murderer!") And to your point, Primal Slayer, kudos to Shannen and Alyssa because there are gentle Prue/Phoebe scenes as late as Sin Francisco and you'd never know whatever was going on between the two of them was going on. It's a shame it couldn't last because there really was a special spark those first three seasons.

Edited June 15, 2020 by kiddo82

Queen Teenie · August 3, 2020

Rewatching the series. Halfway through season 3 and I’ll never forgive Phoebe for pretending to vanquish Cole. She called Piper selfish for wanting to marry Leo, a guardian angel, but saved the life of a demon that she dated for 2 months? That was the dumbest move I have seen, and I don’t see how her character can redeem herself after that in my eyes. She’ll always be dumb to me now for this decision.

And I’m sick of Pipers wining about Leo. She didn’t have to be with him, she chose that, but still she doesn’t stop complaining about his job. Some of it is valid, but it’s negated by how constantly she complains about little things, things she knows is out of his control.

Also can’t stand the fact that the sisters seemingly fall for someone in nearly each episode. They don’t need these many love interests.

Okay I’m done venting.

Writing Wrongs · August 11, 2020

Milano has Covid-19

Pearson80 · August 12, 2020

On 8/3/2020 at 2:13 AM, Queen Teenie said:

Rewatching the series. Halfway through season 3 and I’ll never forgive Phoebe for pretending to vanquish Cole. She called Piper selfish for wanting to marry Leo, a guardian angel, but saved the life of a demon that she dated for 2 months? That was the dumbest move I have seen, and I don’t see how her character can redeem herself after that in my eyes. She’ll always be dumb to me now for this decision.

And I’m sick of Pipers wining about Leo. She didn’t have to be with him, she chose that, but still she doesn’t stop complaining about his job. Some of it is valid, but it’s negated by how constantly she complains about little things, things she knows is out of his control.

Also can’t stand the fact that the sisters seemingly fall for someone in nearly each episode. They don’t need these many love interests.

Okay I’m done venting.

Your awesome post is why Constance Burge was against making Cole a legitimate love interest for Phoebe. Her plan was Cole to be a full demon with the intent of destroying the power of 3 via Phoebe who was considered the weakest in the collective.. She felt that the Cole storyline that Brad Kern wanted would have destroyed Phoebe and the sisters' relationship.. She was so right, Phoebe was never the same after Cole and her betrayal of her sisters and the power of 3.

Writing Wrongs · August 23, 2020

Alyssa and Rose in Twitter fight:

https://people.com/tv/rose-mcgowan-accuses-alyssa-milano-toxic-behavior-charmed/

Pearson80 · August 24, 2020

6 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Alyssa and Rose in Twitter fight:

https://people.com/tv/rose-mcgowan-accuses-alyssa-milano-toxic-behavior-charmed/

Rose has been unraveling for a while and it saddens me that she is fighting with Alyssa like this.. Shannen and Alyssa had their issues but Shannen has never blasted Alyssa like Rose has done.. Shannen and Holly Marie seem to be trying to play peacemaker with their tweets..

2020 has been such an odd year..

Edited August 24, 2020 by Pearson80

Pearson80 · August 30, 2020

Rose and Holly were on Instagram live together 2 weeks ago and they were so much fun together. Rose really hates Alyssa, their tweeter fight basically confirmed all the things that Shannen hinted about Alyssa creating drama on the set for no reason creating toxicity. Holly wants Netflix to do a charmed movie with Shannen as a director. I have a feeling that Holly and Shannen reconciled cause Holly was talking up Shannen alot. The ladies spoke about how the show was mistreated by the powers that be. They gave us alot of stories about the show. The affection between Rose and Holly was evident and Finley, Holly's son even made an appearance to say hello to Rose. Holly even showed us a picture of baby Finley with Rose, Finley is now 16... Rose is open to do a Charmed movie, she wants Shannen to be a part of it and she threw shade on Alyssa at times. I do think she would be professional with Alyssa if she had to work with her but they will never be friends.

magicdog · September 6, 2020

Don't know if a reunion with Doherty will ever happen as she revealed back in February she was dying of stage 4 breast cancer. I hope she finds a way to recover, but it doesn't look good.

That said, I'd love a TV movie or mini series to perhaps play catch up and maybe correct some of the mistakes made with the characters and other issues.

On 8/11/2020 at 9:51 PM, Pearson80 said:

Her plan was Cole to be a full demon with the intent of destroying the power of 3 via Phoebe who was considered the weakest in the collective.. She felt that the Cole storyline that Brad Kern wanted would have destroyed Phoebe and the sisters' relationship.. She was so right, Phoebe was never the same after Cole and her betrayal of her sisters and the power of 3.

I agree but at the time I was rooting for Cole to change and for things to workout somehow. If they had given the character a better arc (not to mention get back to the plot point of his father's soul and his family background) things could have been different.

On 8/30/2020 at 4:40 PM, Pearson80 said:

Rose really hates Alyssa, their tweeter fight basically confirmed all the things that Shannen hinted about Alyssa creating drama on the set for no reason creating toxicity.

I'm not surprised. When the show was still in production, there were plenty of clues this show had a toxic set, though Milano wasn't the source of all of it. Brad Kern was also blamed for his influence especially after forcing Connie Burge off her own show!

On 8/30/2020 at 4:40 PM, Pearson80 said:

Finley is now 16

Damn! I feel old!! Hard to believe so much time has passed!

magicdog · September 23, 2020

Looks like Alyssa Milano made the news.

Not in a good way either.

Keywestclubkid · October 15, 2020

Rose McGowan responds after Sarah Jeffery calls her criticism of Charmedreboot 'pathetic'

I totally agree with rose with this

https://ew.com/tv/rose-mcgowan-reacts-to-sarah-jefferey-criticism-charmed/?fbclid=IwAR26Mjhs3E4xhLeqZmx_LoKPJP7jS16RtKnMThj9AJ4okum1tj8yW4gerY4

Daisy · October 17, 2020

while i don't have an issue (per se) on reboots, I am tired of them. like. if the reboot made thematically sense (if they did say Charmed w/their kids, or A Different World with Whitley and Dwayne's kids) i think that's a perfect bridge. but what they do all the time is cash in the name and complete trample on what made it so popular (in the first place). So I totally get Rose was coming from.

(not to mention from what i've seen from clips and crap... the show does suck)

magicdog · July 7, 2021

From the "cast members in other roles department"....

Alistair Duncan, who played the demon Alaster in "Brain Drain" is voicing the character of Alfred Pennyworth in the latest Batman animated DTV, "The Long Halloween".

4evaQuez · July 19, 2021

On 4/12/2020 at 11:50 AM, Rockstar99435 said:

Phoebe's premonition power should've developed to the point where she could call up a premonition whenever she wanted. Also, I think it would've been cool if she could go into her premonitions and walk around, looking for clues or whatever. And her levitation should've also developed. I hated her empathy power. It was too undefined and just meant she could do whatever the writers needed her to.

With Paige, it's hard to tell what her witch powers were and how they should've developed because her powers were so intertwined with her whitelighter powers. I think TK was her only witch power and the rest were whitelighter powers. On one hand, it would've been cool for her to get another witch power. On the other hand, she had way too many whitelighter powers and didn't really need anything else.

I liked the idea of Phoebe having empathy, but I hated the execution. In season's 3 Primrose Empath, Phoebe is able to have a premonition without touching anything because of the immense psychic energy in the air. When Phoebe first got empathy in season 6, I thought they were going to develop that original idea - silly me. I thought her empathy would allow her to feel psychic energy thus advancing her premonition ability. Also, in Primrose Empath, the distance and range got farther the longer Prue had her empathy. Again, I thought Phoebe's empathy would grow to were she could feel emotions all over the city on command and thus extend the reach of her premonitions. Again, sadly, this did not happen.

I also thought it would be great if they allowed Phoebe to have an Empathy Shield ability. She could cloak herself or others in an empathic shield and any pain a demon tried to inflict on others, the person would be protected from harm and the demon would feel the pain he attempted to inflict on another. I also liked the idea of Morality Bites, with Phoebe being able to overwhelm people with emotions in a lethal manner.

As far as Paige, I think orbing should have been her only canon whitelighter ability. She was half whitelighter, so they could easily say she didn't inherit all the abilities. Plus, orbing was the only consistent power they had her use. The glamouring was super rare and plot driven, and she didn't acquire solo healing until the last season. There was also moments when the show would let her sense people, but: 1st that should have been an extension of Phoebe's empathy power. 2nd the show wasn't consistent with that trait either.

Pearson80 · July 25, 2021

On 7/19/2021 at 11:19 AM, 4evaQuez said:

I liked the idea of Phoebe having empathy, but I hated the execution. In season's 3 Primrose Empath, Phoebe is able to have a premonition without touching anything because of the immense psychic energy in the air. When Phoebe first got empathy in season 6, I thought they were going to develop that original idea - silly me. I thought her empathy would allow her to feel psychic energy thus advancing her premonition ability. Also, in Primrose Empath, the distance and range got farther the longer Prue had her empathy. Again, I thought Phoebe's empathy would grow to were she could feel emotions all over the city on command and thus extend the reach of her premonitions. Again, sadly, this did not happen.

I also thought it would be great if they allowed Phoebe to have an Empathy Shield ability. She could cloak herself or others in an empathic shield and any pain a demon tried to inflict on others, the person would be protected from harm and the demon would feel the pain he attempted to inflict on another. I also liked the idea of Morality Bites, with Phoebe being able to overwhelm people with emotions in a lethal manner.

As far as Paige, I think orbing should have been her only canon whitelighter ability. She was half whitelighter, so they could easily say she didn't inherit all the abilities. Plus, orbing was the only consistent power they had her use. The glamouring was super rare and plot driven, and she didn't acquire solo healing until the last season. There was also moments when the show would let her sense people, but: 1st that should have been an extension of Phoebe's empathy power. 2nd the show wasn't consistent with that trait either.

I do like your ideas for Phoebe's powers since I hated how they were on the show. Levitation was the worst power ever. I do wish that Phoebe's empathy had elements of telepathy that would have made her premonitions really powerful. I do think that Empathy and telepathy should have been advancements of her premonition power not separate powers though. Psychic reflection should have been her second power a defensive power since she needed to be able to defend herself and not that stupid levitation since Prue could already do it via her telekinesis. Psychic reflection and Premonitions would have been awesome together in season 3. In time Phoebe should have developed an awesome offensive power. It's too bad she became so damn useless during the final seasons.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Pearson80

Writing Wrongs · August 2, 2021

On 8/30/2020 at 6:40 PM, Pearson80 said:

Rose and Holly were on Instagram live together 2 weeks ago and they were so much fun together. Rose really hates Alyssa, their tweeter fight basically confirmed all the things that Shannen hinted about Alyssa creating drama on the set for no reason creating toxicity. Holly wants Netflix to do a charmed movie with Shannen as a director. I have a feeling that Holly and Shannen reconciled cause Holly was talking up Shannen alot. The ladies spoke about how the show was mistreated by the powers that be. They gave us alot of stories about the show. The affection between Rose and Holly was evident and Finley, Holly's son even made an appearance to say hello to Rose. Holly even showed us a picture of baby Finley with Rose, Finley is now 16... Rose is open to do a Charmed movie, she wants Shannen to be a part of it and she threw shade on Alyssa at times. I do think she would be professional with Alyssa if she had to work with her but they will never be friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYQgRaCINVQ

I laughed at Rose saying about a Charmed movie: "I'll direct Shannen, you (Holly) and the other one."

Edited August 2, 2021 by Writing Wrongs

moonchild81 · October 27, 2021

https://news.yahoo.com/alyssa-milano-where-she-stands-140330774.html

Primal Slayer · October 27, 2021

1 hour ago, moonchild81 said:

https://news.yahoo.com/alyssa-milano-where-she-stands-140330774.html

Always takes 20 years for Shannens co-stars to take some of the blame.

moonchild81 · October 27, 2021

causing the fans to get j*****( did i spell that right?)

4evaQuez · October 31, 2021

So, I decided I wanted a complete rewatch of Charmed. Every single episode, and I just finished season 1.

It was great and odd rewatching the show. 1st, in my mind, I thought I didn't much care for season 1. I mean in one of those I liked it when it first aired but as the show progressed season 1 seems like a first draft and not a final product. It's not bad, but it's not what it should be.

Boy, was I wrong. I forgot how much emotion was in season 1. Death meant something, Leo couldn't constantly come healing nor was he a supernatural taxi, the death of Grams and the Mother looms over the entire season, Prue and Phoebe's relationship is constantly ebbing and flowing, Phoebe is dedicated to the craft, we see them adding to the Book of Shadows, Prue and Piper trying to balance professional ambitions with personal goals and witchly duties, no one complaining about a normal life before and after every commercial break, the spells are poetic and even reminiscent of Shakepearse's Macbeth with the use of devices like iambic pentameter and even small things like having to find ingredients for spells and potions made the show feel shockingly realistic considering the content.

Granted, I think killing Andy off was great as by the second half of the season, you can tell the show is really struggling with finding a purpose for him - and quite frankly they continue that struggle with Darryl.

It's also odd to realize how Phoebe's powers regress when she is already working and even being successful having premonitions at will. The first season also does a great job of showing why premonitions was the rarest and most coveted power.

After watching that 70s Episode, I wish we could have gotten the Grams/Penny prequel series that was rumored at one point. I know a lot of people despised Grams by the end of the series, but I always thought it was interesting how exceptionally powerful the show always made her seem. She has a command of her power that we never saw any of the Charmed ones have, we know she added significantly to the book, she was powerful enough to help them in season 1 from beyond the grave, in season 5's Sympathy for the Demon she's able to create a vanquishing spell on the spot to kill a demon attacking her and Piper and as much talk as there as about Halliwell witches dying young, she lives long enough to raise her daughter and her granddaughters well into adulthood. Even Phoebe is 23 at the beginning of the series, I believe and roughly 21, I believe, in Prewitched. She dies of human causes and not witchly ones.

Lastly, I wonder if the show intended for Piper to be the one closest to Grams. Even in the first season, Piper is the one who seems to mourn Grams the most, she's the only sister to embrace Grams before Patty in that 70s Episode when they are returning home, and in general, the show was pretty committed to the Piper/Grams dynamic in a way we didn't see with Prue or Phoebe.

One more thing, the only episodes I'm not a big fan of are the evil Warlock Charmed ones and the one about the Egyptian spirit. Overall, it's a really strong season.

This really is the end, does anyone know what happened with Rex and Hannah? The two are set up and coded as these big bads of the season, but their finale episode seems like something that was created in response to either a change of direction of the show or feedback that they weren't working as antagonists. It just seemed anticlimatic since the show was setting up what seemed to be an epic rivalry only for them to just stop doing that.

Pearson80 · November 5, 2021

On 10/27/2021 at 5:33 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Always takes 20 years for Shannens co-stars to take some of the blame.

They love to use Shannen as a scapegoat for their issues..

Edited November 5, 2021 by Pearson80

4evaQuez · November 26, 2021

So I just finished watching Season 2. First, I must say that Season 2 has always been a weird season to me. On the one hand, it has some of the best episodes of the series for me, i.e. Morality Bites, Pardon My Past, P3 H20, Astral Monkey, Reawakened. It also has some episodes I truly love and will immediately stop everything to be completely engrossed for an hour, i.e. Painted World, Chick Flick, Ex Libris, Murphy's Luck, with Amy Adams hee! However, it also has some episodes that I had not watched since the original airing, and I've had my Season 2 DVDs for more than a decade, i.e. That Old Black Magic, How to Make a Quilt, Animal Pragmatism. And I literally sighed and rolled my eyes when I realized Heartbreak City, the Cupid episode, was next on my rewatch. Lastly, I am not a fan of the season opener - one of those episodes I haven't watched since the original airing - and the season finale. All in all, this is still an improvement from Season 1. However, while I think Season 1 was more consistent as a season both in quality and tone. I find Season 2 had much higher highs and the lows aren't quite as low. I really, really disliked Dream Sorcerer, Feats of Clay, and When Bad Warlocks go Good. Season 2 > Season 1.

That being said, Season 2 also has narrative strings that just annoy, frustrate and perturb me. Jenny, who is shockingly not even in that many episodes. She's gone by episode 7 and is not even featured in every episode. She's also just given a quick, "back with her parents" and never mentioned again. I wish the show would have done the same with Billie. Leo/Piper/Dan is just a series of increasingly frustrating decisions on all three of their parts. Dan could have been named "Tentative Perfect Boyfriend until Replaced" and that would have summed up his time on the show perfectly. Jack and Bucklands are also narrative anchors. Beside from Painted World, I can't think of anything that particular section of Charmed added to the universe. I was counting down episodes until Prue left because the stern, disapproving boss who wants Prue to sell some outrageous amount of merchandise in less than 48 hours had already been done like three times before she left.

This season is also interesting - as a longtime Charmed lover - because the Charmed retcons and inconsistencies start heavily this season. Blinking becomes a warlock power. "Whitelighter dust" is introduced as something a witch gave Leo, and later Sam discusses uses some leftover "Whitelighter dust" that Patty created to wipeout the sisters' memory in P3 H20. People actually comment on the inappropriate outfits Prue wears to the office. The Charmed Ones are aghast when Leo just orbs in without prior notice or warning. In The Devil's Music, they scold Leo for giving them orders, Leo's healing powers are already inconsistent. Piper actually doesn't want to be healed in Reawakened, which is such a change from just next season when she wants Leo to heal a minor cut on her finger. Leo is actually knowledgeable about the supernatural world without having to run to the Elders immediately, etc. Oh! And this is the season where it changes that good witches are immune to good witches abilities to only good witches can't freeze. It just interesting to see the tweaks and changes the show is already making to the formula and some of which are for the better and some not so much. Lastly, the show is already inconsistent with what is a good witch, a bad witch, a warlock, and even what are the limitations of a nonmagical witch.

Piper - The show really wastes HMC/Piper these first two seasons. It's not until Astral Monkey where she really gets to showcase her dramatic acting chops, and the show gives Piper a substantial perspective outside of her love life. To be fair, there's How to Make a Quilt, but she just comes off as whining in that episode as Piper hasn't really lost anything yet. Because of magic, she met Leo. As I said in my previous post, she never actually is impacted by Patty's death as much as Prue or Phoebe. In P3 H2O, Prue gets the storyline of finding their mother's body and living in her shadow. Phoebe gets the storyline of literally having to watch her death and that being one of the few "memories" she has of their mother. Piper gets the storyline of poison ivy. Piper, on rewatch, also has a much less developed relationship with both sisters. Prue and Phoebe's relationship is so strongly defined and given focus. I like Piper relationships with both sisters, but it's mostly defined as "middle sister." I can't even think of any major conflicts she has with either. Lastly, Piper is a better written seasons 5-7 Phoebe. Most of her storylines are romantic at this point. The club basically takes away her passion for cooking in season 2. And for the most part, Piper is just there. I remember during the original airing that I never had much thought on Piper until later season 3, and I'm remembering why. I'm certain HMC being in the shadow of SD and AM isn't helping. Also the fact that HMC has to carry the Piper/Leo/Dan triangle since both romantic partners are just lacking in the acting department must weigh her down, too.

Phoebe and Prue - Shockingly, the two mostly get along this season. I can't think of any major ebbs or flows in the relationship and even potential hiccups are smoothed over quite quickly. Phoebe is just so enjoyable. It's sad because so many of the things that make Phoebe likable are split up between Piper and Paige in later seasons, and the complete refocus of Phoebe Carrie Bradshaw instead of allowing Phoebe to become the psychologist she was meant to be. They even could have had her working with the SFPD to make Darryl more useful. We just know so much about this Phoebe. She wants to get married and have kids and is the most maternal, but it isn't her entire identity...yet. She wants to get good at the craft and has been working on her spells, potions, and kickboxing, so she is useful in a variety of ways. She is often using her street smarts to help the sisters out of a bind. Phoebe actually gets no romantic focus in these first two seasons. She has one offs of course but nothing like Piper/Leo or Prue/Andy or even Prue/Jack. She has a natural curiosity about the world, and she's the one who learns the quickest and is constantly informing the sisters of ways to work around personal gain or the dangers of wanting to punish the guilty. There are also several hints in Season 2 about her inevitable turn to evil. Morality Bites, Pardon My Past, but even Armageddon Now has one of the 4 Horsemen commenting that there's something evil in Phoebe. Then of course Season 1's Woogy episode. I really wish Constance could have stayed on in Season 4 for while Long Live the Queen is one of my favorite episodes of the series, I would have loved to see long term fall out in season 5 regarding how that impacted the sisters relationship.

Prue - Eerily gets a lot of episodes, references, and commentary about accepting life and death. Granted the show doesn't know they are firing the actress next season, but it does feel like Prue has this "doomed" aura around her, especially since she's the one who is most compared to Patty. It also seems the show didn't really know what to do with her new power. I mean it's cool, but it sometimes feel shoehorned into episodes.

Anyway, Season 2 has always been my 5th favorite season, and until I rewatch the rest of the series, it is still firmly number 5.

Next is my favorite season of the series: Season 3

Pearson80 · December 2, 2021

On 11/26/2021 at 11:30 AM, 4evaQuez said:

Phoebe and Prue - Shockingly, the two mostly get along this season. I can't think of any major ebbs or flows in the relationship and even potential hiccups are smoothed over quite quickly. Phoebe is just so enjoyable. It's sad because so many of the things that make Phoebe likable are split up between Piper and Paige in later seasons, and the complete refocus of Phoebe Carrie Bradshaw instead of allowing Phoebe to become the psychologist she was meant to be. They even could have had her working with the SFPD to make Darryl more useful. We just know so much about this Phoebe. She wants to get married and have kids and is the most maternal, but it isn't her entire identity...yet. She wants to get good at the craft and has been working on her spells, potions, and kickboxing, so she is useful in a variety of ways. She is often using her street smarts to help the sisters out of a bind. Phoebe actually gets no romantic focus in these first two seasons. She has one offs of course but nothing like Piper/Leo or Prue/Andy or even Prue/Jack. She has a natural curiosity about the world, and she's the one who learns the quickest and is constantly informing the sisters of ways to work around personal gain or the dangers of wanting to punish the guilty. There are also several hints in Season 2 about her inevitable turn to evil. Morality Bites, Pardon My Past, but even Armageddon Now has one of the 4 Horsemen commenting that there's something evil in Phoebe. Then of course Season 1's Woogy episode. I really wish Constance could have stayed on in Season 4 for while Long Live the Queen is one of my favorite episodes of the series, I would have loved to see long term fall out in season 5 regarding how that impacted the sisters relationship.

Phoebe is my favorite sister in season 2 due to everything that you wrote in your post. I also loved how she is able to connect mentally with that female demon with her powers. That should have been developed more in the future. I also think that the reason that she is so awesome in this season is because she is Constance's proxy on the show. Constance was the baby sister in real life since she based the series on herself and her older sisters. Constance should have written the show till the end. It is too bad that she did not get to fulfill her vision.. I would have loved to have seen her write long live the queen with Prue being there instead of Paige..

Long live the Queen should have been the centennial episode in season 5. The source could have sought an alliance with Evil Phoebe to not only ensure his survival but also to keep Phoebe from rejoining her sisters. As long as she remains evil, the power of 3 is dead. Evil Phoebe versus Prue would have brought their relationship full circle.. The source was vanquished too soon in season 4, he should have been a constant threat throughout the show in addition to other evil beings that the sisters had to face both human and supernatural..

On 11/26/2021 at 11:30 AM, 4evaQuez said:

Prue - Eerily gets a lot of episodes, references, and commentary about accepting life and death. Granted the show doesn't know they are firing the actress next season, but it does feel like Prue has this "doomed" aura around her, especially since she's the one who is most compared to Patty. It also seems the show didn't really know what to do with her new power. I mean it's cool, but it sometimes feel shoehorned into episodes.

Prue was haunted by Patty's death the most since she was the oldest and that was part of her characterization since season 1 and it fueled her resentment of her father Victor. Piper and Phoebe should have been haunted by Prue's death like Prue was with Patty's and it always bothered me that they acted like Prue never existed and that Paige was the one that they knew all of their lives..

I think that Prue's second power was good but it should have been called bilocation instead of astral projection and it could have progressed to cloning as she got more powerful. Prue could create 2 other versions of herself to fight evil like she did in season 1 with that spell to multiply her strength. The three Prues would have also been an homage to the power of 3, had she lived..

Edited December 2, 2021 by Pearson80

4evaQuez · December 11, 2021

This season is the closest you can get to a perfect season of television. I truly love the third season of Charmed. The sisters are absolutely beautiful this season, their chemistry is pitch-perfect, great blend of humor and drama. Great mixture of melodrama with a more measured and resigned building of tension. Also, this season really breaks the roles the sisters were assigned. Phoebe and especially Piper are stepping out of Prue's shadow and no longer treating her like a mother figure but like a sister. Prue is also continuing on her own journey of discovering who she is and not who she has to be for her sisters. Lastly, although season 5 gets a lot of flack for moving away from the original premise of the show, you can actually see seeds of this removal in the third season.

Blinded by the Whitelighter - I have always loved this episode, but it frustrates me so much. I hate when a show has an episode to acknowledge where they have failed a character or a storyline only to end with, "get over it." And this is basically what this episode does. Natalie is right. Leo is an horrendous whitelighter. He's missing important meetings to heal Piper's finger, he's overly emotional to the point that he almost got himself killed, he does very little to help the sisters train and grow their powers, he is a distraction for Piper, and this episode shows that Natalie actually would be a better whitelighter. She's disciplined, she helped craft a plan to defeat Eames, she realizes the importance of having witches, whitelighters, and yes even Elders working together. Everytime I watch this episode, I wonder if the Elders were truly usueless of Leo just never consulted with them in a way that was helpful. Case in point, the elders being correct that the "male witch" was actually a force of evil. I'm also pissed because this episode proves why Piper and Leo shouldn't be together. I love Piper - this season on - but she is whiny, childish, and is often a detriment to the Power of Three during the Prue years.

She says it herself in Look Who's Barking, Prue and Phoebe are superwitches and she tags along and freezes things. The kicker in this episode is that when Natalie and Leo are discussing just how untrained, unfocused, and lucky and not skilled the sisters are, Leo retorts with the Belthazor vanquish. It is this very moment when Phoebe calls Leo down to inform him that she lied about vanquishing Belthazor. Leo is so disappointed on top of his inability to control himself after the death of a charge that's not even his, he removes himself as the Charmed ones whitelighter. THIS IS THE CORRECT DECISION!!! Leo is useless. I hate that the episode ends with Natalie's death and "breaking the rules" thus the message is Natalie is wrong. Leo is a great whitelighter. No! NO! NO! Natalie was correct. They got lucky, but it in no way addresses that Leo is not the best whitelighter he can be as long as he's dealing with Piper's petty problems about a "normal life," keeping a secret that an exceptionally dangerous demon that he partly healed is still on the roam and could potentially be killing innocents. Yay! We can get married!

Why do they wanna get married? This episode also reenforces that these two know nothing about each other. I can forgive Piper not knowing about Natalie. It's a common tv show convention that lifelong best friends are never mentioned or heard of until they show up on the episode. But why doesn't Piper know that there are mandatory meetings for whitelighters? Why doesn't Piper know that whitelighters have their own language? Why doesn't Piper, the chef, know that whitelighters aren't supposed to eat on the job? My issue is that everything regarding how Leo spent about 95% of his life is brand new news to Piper. Why didn't the show just have it so Piper forgot. Or said, "Oh I remember when you told me about this..." or "I rememeber we laughed about that one thing that happened at that whitelighter meeting." It frustrates me...as I'm certain you can see.

We All Scream for Ice Cream - is another episode that annoys me greatly. Mainly because of Victor Bennett. They recast the role, and the character is nothing like his previous self. It's now Gram's fault that he abandoned his kids. This I don't understand since we learn in THAT 70'S Episode that he's gone from their lives before Phoebe is even born. So Grams wouldn't let you raise your kids without magic even though you and the living Mother would have been the ones to make that decision. The show is also inconsistent on why he left Patty. At one point the show outright says Patty has an affair. Then they say that Patty/Sam happen after Victor leaves, but Sam was putting the moves on Patty before he left. Then they say that Sam stole Patty from Victor. All of this just to try to make Victor seem sympathetic when he is not. Also, what about the fact that as their father, he would have more legal rights regarding custody after Patty died. Also, the sisters' would have their powers stripped by this point so raising them without powers is the only option. Then, in Sympathy for the Demon we see a Piper who has to be about preteen age crying because Victor abandons her after a demon attack. Patty is long dead at this point.

The show also makes it clear that Victor has been in San Francisco for months, but he's only talking to Phoebe over instant messenger. The sisters literally live in the same house they lived in when he was married to Patty and the last time he visited. There's no excuse for him to not drop a note off saying he's in town if they are interested in mending broken relationships. The shifting of the blame to Grams/Patty/Sam for why Victor chose to leave just is so annoying. It's obvious the show had intentions to make him a more permanent character, and I'm happy they didn't. There is also random dialogue after this season about the sisters not seeing him very much. Then when he and Phoebe are together in The Good, The Bad, and The Cursed it's because he wants her to use her premonitions for his real estate portfolio. I know people hate Grams, but at least the show never tried to paint Grams as a victim of other peoples' choices. Victor is the worst.

This season also is the beginning of Phoebe just feeling less needed in the trio. Prue all of a sudden is super witch. She is the one who is studying the book. We get more references to her making spells, Piper is shown doing more potions. PreWitched even heavily implies she's the best at potion making - this is confirmed next season. Prue can also randomly do kung fu, and she can use her telekinesis powers to mimic Phoebe's levitation; however, Prue can move more freely and use her telekinesis to give her kicks and punches more power. Prue is also more crafter. Coyote Piper resolution is the type of quick and street wise thinking that Phoebe would have proposed in the earlier two seasons.

Phoebe also doesn't get a particularly big moment for her premonitions like prior seasons. The Good, The Bad, and The Cursed literally has her premonition power killing her and Prue and Cole are the ones to save the day. This is the season where Phoebe has regressed in her premonitions since in the last two seasons she was doing a better job having premonitions on command, and we saw her practicing the ability.

This season is also when the magic rules are less grounded like prior seasons. Grams randomly pops up in a couple episodes for conversations and guidance of the sisters. Patty is around for an entire 24 hours to have long conversations with the sisters. Phoebe crafting a spell to travel to the Underworld. The sisters going "up there." It's obviously not as bad as seasons 6-8, but it plants the seeds.

Piper is actually a character. Although I called her whiney, a detriment, and childish, she actually has a perspective. In PreWitched, I was shocked to hear her express her frustration with both Prue and Phoebe to Grams. Granted she doesn't have to be the middle sister with Grams, but I had to think if we ever got a chance to hear from Piper's perspective regarding Phoebe's dismissiveness of others, and Prue's coldness like we got to hear in this episode. Piper is the one searching for Victor at the beginning of the Ice Cream episode, and Piper is the one who get the long moment with Patty. Even before Patty returns, we see Piper discusses Patty, setting a place for her at the table, wanting Leo to propose with Pattie's ring, etc. This is a far cry from the Piper who simply got poison ivy in the episode about her mother's death. We also see Piper standing up for herself and being in conflict with Phoebe and Prue this season. It was great to see the show stop wasting Piper/HMC because I'm certain she was bored with her first two seasons storylines.

Lastly, watching this season made me mourn what could have been. I actually liked Paige/Rose McGowan from season 4 onward, but I couldn't help but wonder how the show would have evolved with Prue. Although the sisters were stepping out of her shadow, Prue still had the ability to call them on their crap in a way that Piper never did with Phoebe. I don't think Piper did it with Paige either; however, I do think Piper was more okay with being in conflict with Paige than Phoebe. I'll get to that when I get to those seasons. Prue was not afraid to wear her dislike of Cole on her shoulders. She was okay with telling the sisters that they were straying too far from the path as Charmed ones and as sisters. And Prue was a leader in a way that Piper not Paige ever were. I don't think Phoebe ever really stood in the leadership role, especially not for long.

Prue became a one woman army, and I do wonder how Piper and Phoebe's powers would have evolved in order to keep up with her. And while I think the acting is still mostly strong after season 3, All Hell Breaks Loose really showed what SD and HMC especially could have brought to this show if given the chance.

Anyway, this is already super long. Headed to Season 4 which is actually my second favorite season. Blessed Be.

Edited December 11, 2021 by 4evaQuez

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