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Mya Stone

S02.E12: Bad Eggs

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Buffy and her friends encounter even more trouble than expected when the eggs they are given in health class turn out to be prehistoric parasites that take over their lives.

This, Inca Mummy Girl, and Go Fish all top the worst of Season Two for me. Just...I have nothing to really say. The first appearance of the Gorch brothers? Maybe? Buffy gets grounded? Again? A pile of eh, on top of a Bezoar demon. 

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I loved it. The egg project was an old hackneyed cliche that every single show about students had an episode about, yet nobody I know ever witnessed it as a real life assignment anywhere. "Bad Eggs," took an already silly overdone idea and had a field day doing something zany with it.

It wasn't Angel-centric, which didn't bother me at all. Buffy was still great, saying things like "As punishments go, this is fairly abstract." And the Gorch brothers? What's not to like? I don't know which was funnier: them themselves, or the fact that someone apparently thought that a zany episode about mind control eggs needed comedy relief.

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I liked it just fine, it's not one of my go to episodes in season 2 but it's fine.

I didn't like how Joyce completely ignored the egg shaped bump Buffy had on her head and yelled at her without asking was she okay.

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Never going to be a great episode, per se, but fine for what it is.  Does its job as a "palate cleanser" (last pure fun episode before Angel's turn, which IMO permanently darkens the series) and serves as a recap/introduction episode, as it was the first new ep to air in almost a month, and I'm sure the WB had already started the promotion machine building up to next week's "two-night event".

 

And it does serve a couple of purposes in the greater arc:  Buffy being so easily distracted by Angel-kissage while "hunting" the Gorches is a clue that B/A are getting perilously close to "seizing" the moment, without thinking about the larger consequences.  But at the same time, the "vampires can't get humans pregnant" conversation they have is there so we won't be distracted by thoughts of that one particular consequence (which, after all, this episode is largely about).  We aren't distracted as B/A fall to the bed in Surprise by wondering if Angel has condoms; instead we can enjoy the moment.  And we cry for Buffy in Innocence during the "was I not good?" scene without thinking "and she's REALLY going to be upset when she finds out she's pregnant".  A nice and necessary bit of ground-clearing, something S2 excelled at, compared to the sloppiness of later years.  

 

(Other examples of S2 covering all its bases include the Judge, whose whole purpose is to prove to us that Angel isn't faking, he really is evil now, and [conversely] the cut Buffy gets on her arm early in the sword fight in Becoming, Part 2, which is how we can tell that Angel really is back.  [Without the soul, Angel, losing the fight and about to be decapitated, might well fake resouling, and we see in Innocence that he can fool Buffy, however briefly, about being ensouled…but an evil Angel playing that part would be all melodramatic about himself, not noticing a small cut on Buffy's arm and tenderly caring for it, so that's how Joss proves his point and keeps us from being distracted by "but is he faking?" questions.  All the better to impale us emotionally with "Close your eyes…"]  And, most of all, there's the decision to have Angel kill Jenny by snapping her neck, rather than simply biting her;  Passion wouldn't work nearly as well if when Giles finds Angel's "present", instead of sharing in Giles's devastation, we were anticipating Vamp!Jenny rising to attack him.  So good work on all of those, as on here.)

 

It's also cool to enjoy all the little horror movie homages that David Greenwalt (as director) inserts into Marti Noxon's basic "possessed eggs" plot. Too bad Xander never gets be-Bezoared; I'm sure the Children of the Corn homage with the possessed kids brandishing the farm implements would have felt like old home week for Nick B., who was in one of the sequels.

 

Lots of fun acting in here, too, from Nick's total "Gyuhh-uh-uh!" moment when seeing the hard-boiled "Xander, Jr." to the awesome blank faces that Aly and ASH put on to cue Willow and Giles's being possessed.  And while I'm not a Jonathan fan, I do enjoy Danny Strong screaming "HELP ME" off-screen and then being all ultra-calm "I'm fine.  I slipped." when B/X find him.  And the Gorches are, of couse, a hoot.

 

It's also fun to see Cordelia as Queen of the Scoobies (oh, you know that's how she thinks it should be) demanding that they start the manhunt for Mr. Whitmore:

 

CORDELIA (overdoing the sadness):  Mr. Whitmore didn't show up for class today.

BUFFY:  That news is of the past.

CORDELIA (annoyed): He's missing? Presumed dead?

BUFFY (skeptical): By who?
CORDELIA: Why, by me, of course!

 

Hee, even if it's just a pretext to get Xander to help her "search" the utility closet.  Of course, once they get possessed, it is of course Willow who actually takes charge (Mama Bezoar knows leadership material when she sees it!), but I love that even as a Bezoar-slave, Cordy gets the "princess" job of merely polishing the eggs that Willow/Giles/Joyce dig up.

 

Speaking of which, a nice little rebuff to the "Giles is like Buffy's dad" argument is that Buffy has no problem tossing him against the wall during their fight, but she can't bring herself to hit Joyce.  All she does is dodge that pickaxe, which eventually becomes very useful.  So we can see who Buffy considers her one true parent, IMO.  A pity whom the sentiment is wasted on, though:

 

I didn't like how Joyce completely ignored the egg shaped bump Buffy had on her head and yelled at her without asking was she okay.

 

Yeah, well…that's Joyce Summers for you.  It was great to see her being willing to cover for Buffy in Ted, but now we're back to the default.  Ugh.  Did you catch the part where she actually tells Giles that she considers Buffy a burden?  Sheesh.  I mean, I'm childless, so I'm rather amused by the episode's "Children are evil parasites suck out your free will and take over your lives" theme, but to have Buffy's actual parent say that…well, ugh, as noted.

 

Still, even Buffy/Joyce conversations have their fun moments:

 

JOYCE (re the dress Buffy liked): You looked like a streetwalker.

BUFFY:  But a thin streetwalker! (beat) That's probably not going to be the winning argument, is it?

 

Be funny if it was, actually.  (JOYCE: Okay, good point.  Let's go back and get it.)

 

And, speaking of fun:

 

GILES:  How did the, uh, hunt go last night, Buffy?

BUFFY (drained):  No go.

GILES (confused): Uh, 'no': 'no' you didn't go, or, or, or you were unsuccessful?

BUFFY: No Gorches.

XANDER:  Apparently Buffy has decided the problem with the English language is all those pesky words.  (To Buffy, teasingly exaggerating) You…Angel…big…smoochies?

BUFFY: Shut…up.

 

CORDELIA (re her bear-pack):  Then, all of a sudden, these trend-oids everywhere started sporting them.  So I'm totally not wearing it. But then I thought, 'Hey!  I'm the one who started this nationwide craze! What am I ashamed of?'

 

(Of course Cordelia started a nationwide trend.  Of course she did.  [The shock is that it was just the one.])

 

BUFFY: So, your egg isn't acting odd or anything?

CORDELIA:  It isn't acting anything.  It's an egg, Buffy; it doesn't emote.

 

XANDER (re the hardboiled baby Bezoar in his egg):  Get started, Buffy.  Dissect it, or something.

BUFFY:  Me?  Why do I have to do it?

XANDER:  Uh, because you're the Slayer?

BUFFY:  And I slayed!  My work here is done.

 

Lastly, I can't let this post go without mentioning that completely gratuitous but oh-so-enjoyable slow pan across SMG's upper chest when she and Xander reading about the Bezoar in the book.  Second-most pause-button workouts of any shot in the series, I'm just saying.  (Number one is, of course, Willow in the red pajamas in Something Blue, as the candles ignite.)  I mean, if I have to deal with ep after ep after ep of shirtless Angel/Riley/Spike, it's good to get a little something back, I'm just saying. 

 

All in all, perfectly good for what it is.  Yes, probably no better than 15th/16th on the season (can't quite decide whether it goes above or below Inca Mummy Girl), but as I've said before, that's more about the season than the episode, IMO.

Edited by DAngelus
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I liked this episode if only for Buffy and Angel acting like a normal teenage (for her anyway) couple in love making out at every possible opportunity.  The last time both of them were truly happy together.  :(

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On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2014 at 2:21 AM, Mya Stone said:

This, Inca Mummy Girl, and Go Fish all top the worst of Season Two for me. Just...I have nothing to really say. The first appearance of the Gorch brothers? Maybe? Buffy gets grounded? Again? A pile of eh, on top of a Bezoar demon. 

Yeah, it's pretty weak.

 

On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2014 at 3:30 AM, CletusMusashi said:

I loved it. The egg project was an old hackneyed cliche that every single show about students had an episode about, yet nobody I know ever witnessed it as a real life assignment anywhere. "Bad Eggs," took an already silly overdone idea and had a field day doing something zany with it.

It wasn't Angel-centric, which didn't bother me at all. Buffy was still great, saying things like "As punishments go, this is fairly abstract." And the Gorch brothers? What's not to like? I don't know which was funnier: them themselves, or the fact that someone apparently thought that a zany episode about mind control eggs needed comedy relief.

You may be the only fan in the world who likes it. 

 

On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2014 at 11:22 AM, Jazzy24 said:

I liked it just fine, it's not one of my go to episodes in season 2 but it's fine.

I didn't like how Joyce completely ignored the egg shaped bump Buffy had on her head and yelled at her without asking was she okay.

She's still recovering from being possessed, cut momma Summers some slack. 

On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2014 at 9:15 PM, DAngelus said:

Never going to be a great episode, per se, but fine for what it is.  Does its job as a "palate cleanser" (last pure fun episode before Angel's turn, which IMO permanently darkens the series) and serves as a recap/introduction episode, as it was the first new ep to air in almost a month, and I'm sure the WB had already started the promotion machine building up to next week's "two-night event".

 

And it does serve a couple of purposes in the greater arc:  Buffy being so easily distracted by Angel-kissage while "hunting" the Gorches is a clue that B/A are getting perilously close to "seizing" the moment, without thinking about the larger consequences.  But at the same time, the "vampires can't get humans pregnant" conversation they have is there so we won't be distracted by thoughts of that one particular consequence (which, after all, this episode is largely about).  We aren't distracted as B/A fall to the bed in Surprise by wondering if Angel has condoms; instead we can enjoy the moment.  And we cry for Buffy in Innocence during the "was I not good?" scene without thinking "and she's REALLY going to be upset when she finds out she's pregnant".  A nice and necessary bit of ground-clearing, something S2 excelled at, compared to the sloppiness of later years.  

 

(Other examples of S2 covering all its bases include the Judge, whose whole purpose is to prove to us that Angel isn't faking, he really is evil now, and [conversely] the cut Buffy gets on her arm early in the sword fight in Becoming, Part 2, which is how we can tell that Angel really is back.  [Without the soul, Angel, losing the fight and about to be decapitated, might well fake resouling, and we see in Innocence that he can fool Buffy, however briefly, about being ensouled…but an evil Angel playing that part would be all melodramatic about himself, not noticing a small cut on Buffy's arm and tenderly caring for it, so that's how Joss proves his point and keeps us from being distracted by "but is he faking?" questions.  All the better to impale us emotionally with "Close your eyes…"]  And, most of all, there's the decision to have Angel kill Jenny by snapping her neck, rather than simply biting her;  Passion wouldn't work nearly as well if when Giles finds Angel's "present", instead of sharing in Giles's devastation, we were anticipating Vamp!Jenny rising to attack him.  So good work on all of those, as on here.)

 

It's also cool to enjoy all the little horror movie homages that David Greenwalt (as director) inserts into Marti Noxon's basic "possessed eggs" plot. Too bad Xander never gets be-Bezoared; I'm sure the Children of the Corn homage with the possessed kids brandishing the farm implements would have felt like old home week for Nick B., who was in one of the sequels.

 

Lots of fun acting in here, too, from Nick's total "Gyuhh-uh-uh!" moment when seeing the hard-boiled "Xander, Jr." to the awesome blank faces that Aly and ASH put on to cue Willow and Giles's being possessed.  And while I'm not a Jonathan fan, I do enjoy Danny Strong screaming "HELP ME" off-screen and then being all ultra-calm "I'm fine.  I slipped." when B/X find him.  And the Gorches are, of couse, a hoot.

 

It's also fun to see Cordelia as Queen of the Scoobies (oh, you know that's how she thinks it should be) demanding that they start the manhunt for Mr. Whitmore:

 

 

Hee, even if it's just a pretext to get Xander to help her "search" the utility closet.  Of course, once they get possessed, it is of course Willow who actually takes charge (Mama Bezoar knows leadership material when she sees it!), but I love that even as a Bezoar-slave, Cordy gets the "princess" job of merely polishing the eggs that Willow/Giles/Joyce dig up.

 

Speaking of which, a nice little rebuff to the "Giles is like Buffy's dad" argument is that Buffy has no problem tossing him against the wall during their fight, but she can't bring herself to hit Joyce.  All she does is dodge that pickaxe, which eventually becomes very useful.  So we can see who Buffy considers her one true parent, IMO.  A pity whom the sentiment is wasted on, though:

 

 

Yeah, well…that's Joyce Summers for you.  It was great to see her being willing to cover for Buffy in Ted, but now we're back to the default.  Ugh.  Did you catch the part where she actually tells Giles that she considers Buffy a burden?  Sheesh.  I mean, I'm childless, so I'm rather amused by the episode's "Children are evil parasites suck out your free will and take over your lives" theme, but to have Buffy's actual parent say that…well, ugh, as noted.

 

Still, even Buffy/Joyce conversations have their fun moments:

 

 

Be funny if it was, actually.  (JOYCE: Okay, good point.  Let's go back and get it.)

 

And, speaking of fun:

 

 

(Of course Cordelia started a nationwide trend.  Of course she did.  [The shock is that it was just the one.])

 

 

Lastly, I can't let this post go without mentioning that completely gratuitous but oh-so-enjoyable slow pan across SMG's upper chest when she and Xander reading about the Bezoar in the book.  Second-most pause-button workouts of any shot in the series, I'm just saying.  (Number one is, of course, Willow in the red pajamas in Something Blue, as the candles ignite.)  I mean, if I have to deal with ep after ep after ep of shirtless Angel/Riley/Spike, it's good to get a little something back, I'm just saying. 

 

All in all, perfectly good for what it is.  Yes, probably no better than 15th/16th on the season (can't quite decide whether it goes above or below Inca Mummy Girl), but as I've said before, that's more about the season than the episode, IMO.

Good call on Vamp Jenny, what a twist that would have been, to force Giles to stake her!

Okay, must look out for that pan shot when I rewatch. Although I prefer wet t-shirt Buffy in Go Fish.

Nic does refer to a 'cornfield' in a later ep although that may be a Twilight Zone ep. 

Look at what Joyce DOES let Buffy wear! The mind boggles what this outfit must have been like, a pothole dress or see through black lace...? Ironically Buffy starts dressing more conservatively 

Spoiler

after Joyce's death. But then look at what Buffy lets Dawn wear?

 

Bad Eggs;

The Good; Neat opening scene with the mirror. Some creepy 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers' stuff including the great scene where Giles' looks at the kids at the bottom of the stairs, you think they're already possessed. Great scene with Giles and Joyce in the library (love the way that even possessed Giles still covers up Buffy being the Slayer) and a genuine shock when Giles' sticks the creature on her. Not really much else.

The Bad; The Gorch's are pathetic as an enemy whilst the monsters are very badly done.

Best line; Xander; "You've got to keep your egg safe and teach it Christian values" Willow; "My egg is Jewish!" Xander "Then teach it that dradle song" and Giles "The Gorch's made their name by massacring a whole village full of Mexicans" Buffy "Par for the course" Giles "No this is before they became vampires" also like; Xander "Well I guess we know what happened Professor Whitmore" Cordy "He saw this and ran away?" Xander "Try best case scenario!"

Kinky dinky; Buffy being swallowed by the beastie is akin to tentacle (Henati) and vore fetishism (just google it)

Questions and observations; 

Spoiler

Considering what we learn in 'Normal Again' Buffy's remark to Joyce about saving the world from vampires is very reckless.

What's painful about this ep is that Buffy and Joyce obviously love each other and Buffy wants to be a good daughter but slaying always gets in the way.

The Gorch's know Angelus? They really don't seem to be his kind people. Jonathon back once more. In a previous post I stated that Giles and Tara were the only Buffy characters never to go bad but I was wrong, Giles is possessed here so Tara seems to be the only one who never went evil. Cordy refers to having sex in a car, so she's no longer a virgin? (if so the first of the younger Scoobies to be so). Love the way Buffy and Willow get so maternal about their eggs. BUT Angel mentions for the first time that he can't have children although we later find that isn't true, at least in Connor's case. Buffy fighting the parasite is very like the scene in Aliens where Newt and Ripley are trapped in the lab with the facehuggers, right down to the plucking strings music. Buffy and Xander and ultimately everyone else knocked out. Presumably the parasites need a conscious/sleeping host which is why they lock them in the closet. No one dies although actually that's not as unusual as I first thought, Halloween, When she was Bad, The Witch and quite a few other eps have no human deaths whatsoever. Buffy expresses horror at the thought of being a single mother but 

Spoiler

by season 5 she will be.


Joyce refuses to buy Buffy an outfit because it makes her look like a streetwalker. Considering some of the things Buffy DOES wear in the first three seasons it must have been the full Julia Roberts?

4/10, awful story saved by the character elements and a few good lines, very nearly the worst episode of Buffy ever

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5 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

vore fetishism (just google it)

I have a feeling I'd better not.  Thanks for the warning, though.

5 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Joyce refuses to buy Buffy an outfit because it makes her look like a streetwalker. Considering some of the things Buffy DOES wear in the first three seasons it must have been the full Julia Roberts?

Good point.  To be fair, she did buy Buffy that "would you like to buy a copy of The Watchtower?" outfit from Welcome to the Hellmouth.  It's just getting Buffy to wear the conservative outfits that's the hard part.  I mean, you can't exactly wrestle her into them, even before the slayer strength was an issue.

5 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

very nearly the worst episode of Buffy ever

Not even in the same area code.

Worst S2 episode is What's My Line, Part 1 (empty and padded, Marti even admits this on the commentary)

Worst high school era episode is Beauty and the Beasts 

Spoiler

full of plot contrivances, shitty guest acting, and Oz and Buffy both being jerks to Willow :(

Worst WB episode is Living Conditions

Spoiler

cartoonishly directed, nowhere near as funny as it thinks it is, and the ending is a complete steal from Star Trek's "The Squire of Gothos"

Spoiler

And yet I'd watch any of those, over and over, before rewatching anything from UPN, or any of the pro-Spike episodes from S5.  This show doesn't just go over a cliff, IMO, it jumps down an elevator shaft.

Spoiler

But that's for the future, this is the good (well, great) half of the series.  Brain bleach not needed here.

Although it might be upsetting to see Xander having to hit his girlfriend, which I assume is why the tag mentions that both Willow and Cordelia hit him first.  But even so.

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6 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I have a feeling I'd better not.  Thanks for the warning, though.

Good point.  To be fair, she did buy Buffy that "would you like to buy a copy of The Watchtower?" outfit from Welcome to the Hellmouth.  It's just getting Buffy to wear the conservative outfits that's the hard part.  I mean, you can't exactly wrestle her into them, even before the slayer strength was an issue.

Not even in the same area code.

Worst S2 episode is What's My Line, Part 1 (empty and padded, Marti even admits this on the commentary)

Worst high school era episode is Beauty and the Beasts 

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full of plot contrivances, shitty guest acting, and Oz and Buffy both being jerks to Willow :(

Worst WB episode is Living Conditions

  Hide contents

cartoonishly directed, nowhere near as funny as it thinks it is, and the ending is a complete steal from Star Trek's "The Squire of Gothos"

  Hide contents

And yet I'd watch any of those, over and over, before rewatching anything from UPN, or any of the pro-Spike episodes from S5.  This show doesn't just go over a cliff, IMO, it jumps down an elevator shaft.

  Hide contents

But that's for the future, this is the good (well, great) half of the series.  Brain bleach not needed here.

Although it might be upsetting to see Xander having to hit his girlfriend, which I assume is why the tag mentions that both Willow and Cordelia hit him first.  But even so.

Really? 'What's my Line' is pretty thrilling, this is just stupid, Charmed would be ashamed of this ep. 

I liked Living Conditions although I'm not familiar with the Star Trek ep you're referring to. As for s5 we'll talk about that when we get there. 

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3 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

What's my Line' is pretty thrilling

Part 2 is.  Part 1 is a looooooooong stall to get to the triple-cliffhanger.  You could cut it down to 20 minutes with very little trouble.  (For example, Spike's deciding to hire the assassins could close the teaser, rather than Act I.)  Hence one of the episodes is in my top 10 for the season, and the other is 22 out of 22.

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8 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Part 2 is.  Part 1 is a looooooooong stall to get to the triple-cliffhanger.  You could cut it down to 20 minutes with very little trouble.  (For example, Spike's deciding to hire the assassins could close the teaser, rather than Act I.)  Hence one of the episodes is in my top 10 for the season, and the other is 22 out of 22.

I'll watch again but I like it, we gradually have a build up in tension from Buffy's everyday life to this hideous threat. 

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- Bad Eggs is heavy on sexual desires and lust. Two main pairings: Buffy/Angel and Xander/Cordelia. They parallel each other, not only because those love birds can’t keep their lips off each other, but also because both ships are bad for the people involved, and later in Innocence, both ships will come to a turning point: Angel losing a soul and Willow outing Xandelia. 

- If I’m not mistaken, this is the one and only time we see a mall in Sunnydale. I would have loved to see a Buffy/Willow scene in the mall at any point in the show. Maybe a scene before Homecoming of Buffy picking the black dress Willow will wear that will get Xander all hot and bothered. 

-  I love that Buffy recognized the cowboy boyfriend as vampire due to his lack of reflection. The writers will get a bit lazy about vampire lore in the later seasons, especially S7. 

- I hate the retcon about Joyce even more watching the scene Buffy tells her about “saving the world from vampires.” See, without the retcon, Joyce’s headshake and “I swear, sometimes I don’t know what goes on in your head” is to be expected and normal, but with the retcon about the asylum in mind, Joyce comes off really bad. 

- Xander and Cordelia’s secret relationship gives me all sorts of joy and excitement. I love Xander and Cordelia’s insults that end up secretly hurting them yet they won’t admit it; makes their sweet moments so precious. 

- I find Cordelia to be the most mature and reasonable during this whole juvenile kissing-fest. Xander tends to copy what he sees at home and just act it out – his parents who hate each other fight all the time and they’re the only role-models he has (Giles/Jenny is another example of an adult relationship, one that Xander and Cordelia probably look up to judging by the smile they shared when they caught them kissing in the library in Ted which contrasted Buffy’s disgust.) 

Bad Eggs shows that both of them are starting to have feelings for each other: from Cordelia’s embarrassment when Xander raises his hand at a rhetorical question to her personally seeking Xander for some closet groping. Xander also starts becoming jealous over Cordelia’s previous sexual activities with other guys and was going to ask Cordelia to be his partner as egg parents. 

At this stage, the relationship between the two is equal, but as the episodes go on, Cordelia’s feelings develop from lust to love, but while Xander will grow to care about Cordelia and have feelings for her it will never be on the same level as hers. 

- The health class foreshadows Innocence as the teacher talks about the consequences of having sex. This episode as a whole was obviously written for no purpose but to prepare us for the next two episodes. 

- Buffy was not present in the class to hear the lecture about sex and consequences. Not that I think it would have changed what’s gonna happen in the next episode, but I guess it is significant. 

- Willow gets her first hints about the weirdness of Xander and Cordelia by witnessing them “fighting way too much” in class. She remains the only level-headed person of the three during the discussion. Some cute little Willow moments: her pride when the teacher praises her, her giddiness when the teacher reveals the eggs, and then the heartbreaking moment when she’s about to ask Xander to be her partner but he ignores her for Cordelia. 

- Buffy freaking out about leading her mother’s life is funny and sad at the same time because she will be a single mother to Dawn in the future. 

- Speaking of single mothers, I love how Joyce is taking shots at Buffy about the whole parenting thing. Being a parent is exhausting. 

- While Buffy and Willow’s sluggish state is no fault of their own, Xander’s excitement to help Giles is endearing. 

- “No go.” I adore Giles’ confusion over young people’s slang. 

- Compare and contrast between Buffy and Willow’s parenting and Xander’s. I don’t know if it’s a gender thing or a personality thing. Xander doesn’t care about his egg, sees it as it is, and wants an easy A. Buffy and Willow on the other hand are taking the assignment more seriously and I don’t think it’s all about the grades. Perhaps the eggs that are starting to control them made them feel that way. 

Adding interesting thoughts by Dipstick from Buffy Forums: “Xander boiling his egg is just another example that belies the “Xander is dumb” mythology. It was a clever way to cheat. However, the darker read is that Xander intuitively believes that child-rearing should be harsh and painful to make a tougher kid- even though I think Xander has too much compassion and too much of a heart to ever do that a child of his own. However, see how he internalizes Tony Harris and basically discusses himself through the egg.” 


- Poor Xander taking Giles’ compliment as an insult. The writers missed their chance to tell an interesting story about the Xander/Giles relationship. 

- Willow’s suspicious stare at Xander/Cordelia. I never noticed before that Willow was suspecting that something was going on with them. 

- Sometimes I wonder why Angel would date Buffy. Even though she’s more mature than kids her age, she is still a kid. School assignments, not thinking about the future, her adolescent “When I think about the future, all I see is you.” How can 240 year old Angel stand hearing that? I was waiting for a condescending remark from Angel, which I’m glad it didn’t come, but I think it’s moments like this when Angel can reflect and realize he’s dating a 16 year old girl. 

- When the egg attacked Buffy, her first instinct was to call Willow and make sure she’s okay. It obviously shows that Willow is the best friend.

- Joyce at full parenting mode. I wonder if what happened with Ted was her wake up call to pay more attention to her daughter. 

- I found it funny that Willow and Cordelia carried an unconscious Xander while two boys carried Buffy, wouldn’t it have been more convenient for the girls to carry a girl and the guys to carry a guy? 

- A Buffy/Xander team up! So awesome! They’re so amusing together as the non-research types who solve the mystery. They’re so adorable together. My favorite moment was Xander telling Buffy to be careful followed by him tripping through the hole and into the tunnel. 

- Buffy’s non-stop jabs about Giles getting a life and being a loser never bothered me on first watch, but they’re kinda getting on my nerves. Maybe because I’m getting older, I’m starting to relate to the adult characters more. 

- Small comedic moment when Giles hands Xander a chunk of concrete to carry away and then Xander just simply drops it to the side.

- I love how Willow seems to be the leader of the bunch ordering them to kill Buffy and the Gorches. 

- “Cordelia, I don’t wanna hurt you *catches himself* some of the time.” Aw, he cares about her! That look of guilt when he ended up punching her. 

- I haven’t really talked about Tector and Lyle. I find them amusing, but I don’t have an opinion about them, which is the same way I feel about all the villains. So, if anyone wanna share their thoughts about them, the floor is all yours.

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21 hours ago, SosaLola said:

Some cute little Willow moments: her pride when the teacher praises her, her giddiness when the teacher reveals the eggs, and then the heartbreaking moment when she’s about to ask Xander to be her partner but he ignores her for Cordelia. 

Also, "My egg is Jewish".  (She's not formally identified as such until 

Spoiler

Amends

, but it's nice that our suspicions about the name "Rosenberg" are at least semi-confirmed here.)  I also like when Xander goes (wrt the Gorches), "Nuff said!  I propose Buffy slays them.  All in favor say 'aye'", and Willow raises her hand and votes.

21 hours ago, SosaLola said:

“When I think about the future, all I see is you.” How can 240 year old Angel stand hearing that?

Seriously.  Next episode, Giles will say (in a cut line, so not actually a spoiler) that the Slayer rarely survives past her middle 20s.  So Buffy, who has already died once, will likely be dead within ten years.  That's what, an eyeblink to Angel?  I understand that she's special and he's feeling feelings that he hasn't felt for a very long time 

Spoiler

as evidenced by how That Pesky Soul takes a powder because of Buffy, shortly after this,

but it feels so exploitative to me.  Buffy should be sharing her life with somebody who's on a similar path, not being a small pitstop on Angel's long, long journey.  But JMO.

21 hours ago, SosaLola said:

- When the egg attacked Buffy, her first instinct was to call Willow and make sure she’s okay. It obviously shows that Willow is the best friend.

Buffy's instinctive protectiveness towards Willow is one of her most endearing traits.  It's another reason why I can never share a certain poster's enthusiasm for 

Spoiler

Dawn, who basically steals Willow's place in Buffy's heart, the Scoobies, and the story as a whole,

much though I don't hate the actress.  (But Alyson is better, anyhow.)

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On ‎26‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 8:11 AM, SosaLola said:

- If I’m not mistaken, this is the one and only time we see a mall in Sunnydale. I would have loved to see a Buffy/Willow scene in the mall at any point in the show. Maybe a scene before Homecoming of Buffy picking the black dress Willow will wear that will get Xander all hot and bothered. 

- I hate the retcon about Joyce even more watching the scene Buffy tells her about “saving the world from vampires.” See, without the retcon, Joyce’s headshake and “I swear, sometimes I don’t know what goes on in your head” is to be expected and normal, but with the retcon about the asylum in mind, Joyce comes off really bad. 

Adding interesting thoughts by Dipstick from Buffy Forums: “Xander boiling his egg is just another example that belies the “Xander is dumb” mythology. It was a clever way to cheat. However, the darker read is that Xander intuitively believes that child-rearing should be harsh and painful to make a tougher kid- even though I think Xander has too much compassion and too much of a heart to ever do that a child of his own. However, see how he internalizes Tony Harris and basically discusses himself through the egg.” 

- Sometimes I wonder why Angel would date Buffy. Even though she’s more mature than kids her age, she is still a kid. School assignments, not thinking about the future, her adolescent “When I think about the future, all I see is you.” How can 240 year old Angel stand hearing that? I was waiting for a condescending remark from Angel, which I’m glad it didn’t come, but I think it’s moments like this when Angel can reflect and realize he’s dating a 16 year old girl. 

- Joyce at full parenting mode. I wonder if what happened with Ted was her wake up call to pay more attention to her daughter. 

You know you're right, they talk about it so often you take it for granted that we see the Mall all the time but actually the only other time I think we see it is in Innocence?

 Yes, given what we know from later you expect Joyce to take Buffy's remark more seriously but you know her and her denial.

 I didn't put a great deal of emphasis on Xander boiling his egg, just a flippant teenage boy for whom biology means he doesn't have to take parenthood as seriously as the girls do.

Why would Angel want to date Buffy? Well she's a virgin 16 year old schoolgirl cheerleader who is played by an actress who was voted the sexiest woman in the world? Ephebophilia aside she gives him purpose and a hope of redemption and she represents all that is good and pure in this horrible world he is forced to live in. I know some have argued that Angel's love for Buffy is based in his relationship with Darla, that Buffy is the girl Darla could have been if things had worked out differently. But Darla is forever tainted for him by their history together, even if she were resouled, Buffy is a chance to start fresh.

 One aspect I don't like is how the Joyce/Buffy relationship shifts from one week to the next, I'd have preferred more continuity.       

Edited by Joe Hellandback · Reason: know

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3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Also, "My egg is Jewish".  (She's not formally identified as such until 

  Hide contents

Amends

, but it's nice that our suspicions about the name "Rosenberg" are at least semi-confirmed here.)  

  Hide contents

 

 

Buffy's instinctive protectiveness towards Willow is one of her most endearing traits.  It's another reason why I can never share a certain poster's enthusiasm for 

  Hide contents

Dawn, who basically steals Willow's place in Buffy's heart, the Scoobies, and the story as a whole,

much though I don't hate the actress.  (But Alyson is better, anyhow.)

There are other hints, for instance in Passion she mentions her dad having issues with them nailing a cross to her bedroom wall?

Now a certain character who arrives in season 5 does to an extent assume some of Willow's traits, especially her 'bashful virgin played for laughs schtick' but that's because Willow grows so much it's no longer appropriate. The Willow we see then is so different from the girl here. 

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I would disagree that Willow's Willow-ness was tied so specifically to her sexual growth.  She's still endearingly vulnerable at various points post-"spurty knowledge". Until…

10 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

The Willow we see then is so different from the girl here. 

Of course, a lot of the "difference" is because

Spoiler

they were preparing the way for Dull!Willow, I mean "Dark"!Willow, and frankly, fuck that.  Taking Buffy's talisman, her emotional connection to the world and changing her "evil" for a cheap stunt destroys the moral foundation of the series, my personal affection for Willow herself and Alyson Hannigan aside.

So what if "character X"  might be called a "new Willow", I don't want a "new Willow".  To paraphrase what Willow herself will one day say about a different circumstance, "the only real Willow is Willow".  And

Spoiler

Dawn is as useless a facsimile as the Buffybot was for Buffy.  Not that I necessarily dislike either Dawn or Botty, but I wouldn't trade the B/W phone call we were discussing here for a million scenes of Dawn cuddling up to her robo-sister, as in Bargaining, Part 1. 

Edited by Halting Hex

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3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I would disagree that Willow's Willow-ness was tied so specifically to her sexual growth.  She's still endearingly vulnerable at various points post-"spurty knowledge". Until…

Of course, a lot of the "difference" is because

  Hide contents

they were preparing the way for Dull!Willow, I mean "Dark"!Willow, and frankly, fuck that.  Taking Buffy's talisman, her emotional connection to the world and changing her "evil" for a cheap stunt destroys the moral foundation of the series, my personal affection for Willow herself and Alyson Hannigan aside.

So what if "character X"  might be called a "new Willow", I don't want a "new Willow".  To paraphrase what Willow herself will one day say about a different circumstance, "the only real Willow is Willow".  And

  Hide contents

Dawn is as useless a facsimile as the Buffybot was for Buffy.  Not that I necessarily dislike either Dawn or Botty, but I wouldn't trade the B/W phone call we were discussing here for a million scenes of Dawn cuddling up to her robo-sister, as in Bargaining, Part 1. 

We'll have to disagree on that, that Bargaining pt1 scene still reduces me to tears no matter how many times I watch it. It was hardly a 'cheap stunt', it had been building for a long time. 

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I meant "cheap stunt" in more than one sense of the phrase,

Spoiler

given that Alyson was already on the payroll; the move saved them the cost of hiring a new actor to play the villain. Gotta pinch those pennies where you can.  (Remember, SMG got a big salary bump when the show moved to UPN.) See the same issue with CC on Angel, the following year.

As for "building for a long time", that just retro-cherrypicking by fans to try to validate the storyline, IMO.  "Oh, she told Cordelia to hit 'Deliver' in The Harvest!  Clearly she was always a mass-murdering psychopath who would flay a man alive!"  I swear, I saw so much reaching on the boards that year I could almost hear people's groins popping from the strain…

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1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

I meant "cheap stunt" in more than one sense of the phrase,

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given that Alyson was already on the payroll; the move saved them the cost of hiring a new actor to play the villain. Gotta pinch those pennies where you can.  (Remember, SMG got a big salary bump when the show moved to UPN.) See the same issue with CC on Angel, the following year.

As for "building for a long time", that just retro-cherrypicking by fans to try to validate the storyline, IMO.  "Oh, she told Cordelia to hit 'Deliver' in The Harvest!  Clearly she was always a mass-murdering psychopath who would flay a man alive!"  I swear, I saw so much reaching on the boards that year I could almost hear people's groins popping from the strain…

I never considered that aspect although they had hired the Trio? And remember what we had seen when;

Spoiler

we met Vampwillow or when Glory brainsucked Tara?

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Well, I never hypothesized that the show would be entirely free of 

Spoiler

guest actors, that would be impractical in a different direction.  Just nothing on the level of Harry Groener, Lindsay Crouse or Claire Kramer, with their larger episode commitments (barring the snafu that pulled Crouse early, that is) and (presumably) higher salaries.  After all, those seasons had sub-villains, too; that's what the Trio are, in the end.

Not that it's a gigantic difference (Groener is in 11 episodes [3.05-06, 3.08, 3.11, 3.14-17, 3.19, 3.21-3.22] and Kramer was in the same number [5.05-06, 5.08, 5.12-13, 5.17-5.22] whereas Adam Busch only put in 9 appearances before going skinless [6.04-05, 6.09, 6.11, 6.13, 6.17-6.20]), but every little bit helps.  Plus, as noted, the rate may have entered into it.

And it's not as if the strategy necessarily leads to poor television, given that 

Spoiler

I certainly can't complain about the use of David B. as the villain of this season.

But I do think it was a factor.

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40 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

Well, I never hypothesized that the show would be entirely free of 

  Hide contents

guest actors, that would be impractical in a different direction.  Just nothing on the level of Harry Groener, Lindsay Crouse or Claire Kramer, with their larger episode commitments (barring the snafu that pulled Crouse early, that is) and (presumably) higher salaries.  After all, those seasons had sub-villains, too; that's what the Trio are, in the end.

Not that it's a gigantic difference (Groener is in 11 episodes [3.05-06, 3.08, 3.11, 3.14-17, 3.19, 3.21-3.22] and Kramer was in the same number [5.05-06, 5.08, 5.12-13, 5.17-5.22] whereas Adam Busch only put in 9 appearances before going skinless [6.04-05, 6.09, 6.11, 6.13, 6.17-6.20]), but every little bit helps.  Plus, as noted, the rate may have entered into it.

And it's not as if the strategy necessarily leads to poor television, given that 

  Hide contents

I certainly can't complain about the use of David B. as the villain of this season.

But I do think it was a factor.

Yeah, the series gets a bigger and bigger ensemble cast over the seasons so that makes sense. 

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Quote

Buffy: I'll just lay that one off on my partner. (looks up, worried) Who'd I get?
Willow: Well, there were an uneven number of students, and you didn't show, so...
Buffy: (in shocked disbelief) I'm a single mother?
Xander: (nods) No man of her own.

My initial impression was that Willow/Xander had to raise their "offsprings" as a single parents too (Whitmore said: "You will split into parenting teams. You and your partner will share equally in the daily task of raising your egg"). So what's the deal with Buffy?

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No, we saw Willow get a jock for a partner (after she'd missed out on Xander) and Xander pick an insipid blonde (after he'd seen Cordelia grab someone else); it simply appears that the reason Xander is the primary carer for "Xander, Jr." and Willow is in charge of her Unnamed Jewish Egg is because their partners have chosen "lay it off" on them.  

Whereas it's just Buffy and little Eggbert, no one else in that "family".  Poor single Buffy…

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Something that has always bugged me about this episode is why Xander's egg didn't break and why Xander was tossing it so carelessly in the first place. Boiled eggs aren't indestructible, after all, they just don't leave a mess when they do break.

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2 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

I thought she blew him off.

From the script:

Quote

ON XANDER AND CORDELIA

Who glare at each other. Then Cordelia turns and grabs a BUFF BABE.

Xander follows suit, sidling up to a CUTE LITTLE MUFFIN, who has already been assigned an egg.

XANDER (to Muffin): I know we just met, but isn't that Xander Jr. you're holding?

The girl giggles. Cordelia sees this, turns away - annoyed.

Now, in the aired episode, it is a little different:

Quote

Willow waves at Xander, but he ignores her and gets up to go over to Cordelia. She sees him coming and immediately grabs the shirtsleeve of the boy sitting across from her to get his attention.

CORDELIA: You wanna have a baby?

Xander is disappointed. He sees another girl walk up to the second tray of eggs still on the teacher's desk and approaches her.

XANDER: Hey. (chuckles) I know we just met, but isn't that Xander Jr. you're holding?

The girl giggles and smiles and turns around to walk away. Xander gives Cordelia another glance, then follows the other girl.

Since "Muffin" is still giggling and smiling, I think her turning to walk is less about rejecting Xander, and more about class being over.  I think David Greenwalt (directing) just wanted to get a shot of Xander looking at Cordy without Muffin in the way, but since he follows after her, I think it all worked out all right :)

Edited by Halting Hex
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Discussion of Willow's outfit in Halloween (in that thread) led me to realize that it had to be Buffy's own clothes (since Willow retains her memories, she doesn't turn into a generic "club girl" the way she would have if Buffy had bought the outfit for her at Ethan's).  

Which made me think that Joyce may have had a point about the rejected outfit making Buffy look "like a streetwalker".  I mean, given that my preferred name for Willow in Halloween is "The Ghost of Hookers Past".  When Buffy's "Hi, I'm an enormous slut" ensemble from Welcome to the Hellmouth is apparently not the raciest get-up she owns, it makes me wonder about what exactly Joyce was vetoing, here.  Rawr.

Edited by Halting Hex
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On ‎04‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:32 AM, Halting Hex said:

Discussion of Willow's outfit in Halloween (in that thread) led me to realize that it had to be Buffy's own clothes (since Willow retains her memories, she doesn't turn into a generic "club girl" the way she would have if Buffy had bought the outfit for her at Ethan's).  

Which made me think that Joyce may have had a point about the rejected outfit making Buffy look "like a streetwalker".  I mean, given that my preferred name for Willow in Halloween is "The Ghost of Hookers Past".  When Buffy's "Hi, I'm an enormous slut" ensemble from Welcome to the Hellmouth is apparently not the raciest get-up she owns, it makes me wonder about what exactly Joyce was vetoing, here.  Rawr.

Shame we never got Buffy in either. 

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On 9/13/2018 at 8:32 PM, Halting Hex said:

Xander is disappointed. He sees another girl walk up to the second tray of eggs still on the teacher's desk and approaches her.

XANDER: Hey. (chuckles) I know we just met, but isn't that Xander Jr. you're holding?

So, I'm guessing that this means "Teen Health" class is a second-semester elective?  I mean, if they'd been here since September, I think even Xander might have introduced himself to "Muffin" before this.

Do we think Xander and Cordelia co-ordinated their schedules, so they would have class together?  Or did they select their second-semester schedule at the start of the year, and this is just a coincidence?

Checking out the script, I see that Lyle is described as "young and studly", where Tector is "large and graceless".  I mean, no respect to Jeremy Ratchford, who looks better here than he would on Cold Case, but I think Marti thought they'd be dipping into the WB contract player pool again (Christopher Wiehl, Eion Bailey, Jason Behr, etc) and was surprised when casting went in a more obviously-villainous direction.  Looks as though Anya, Jenny and Amy (yes, the casting ladies all had characters named after them) put the swerve on Marti here.  Huh.

Quote

GILES:  I suppose there is a sort of Machiavellian ingenuity to your transgression...

XANDER: I resent that!... Or, possibly, thank you...

GILES: Bit of both would suit.

Hmm, not a bad deleted line;  I like that Giles wants Xander's thanks.  (I'm not thrilled by the fractured syntax, though.  You'd think Giles could manage an article there.  ["A bit of both…"])

I see Marti does intend to give Angel a bit more awareness than Whedon/Greenwalt IMO let into the finished episode:

Quote

BUFFY: …there are all kinds of things vampires can't do like, you know, work for the telephone company, volunteer for the Red Cross. Have little vampires...

ANGEL (skeptical): So you don't think about the future? 

BUFFY: No.

ANGEL: Never? 

BUFFY: No.

ANGEL: How can you say that? You're not like me. You could have a normal life. (off her look) You know what I mean. Less not normal. You really don't care what happens a year from now? Five years from now -- ?

BUFFY I - I can't care. (with difficulty) Angel. when I try to look into the future, all I can see... is you--

(Angel shakes his head.) 

ANGEL (pained): Buffy--

BUFFY: And I don't have a choice. Don't you know that? If I could do the logic thing, you think I would even be here? (then) All I can see is you... All I want is you.

(A beat. Finally - Angel nods. Giving into it.)

ANGEL:  I know the feeling.

Is Buffy's not being able to care and not having a choice about her just being So In Love with Angel?  Or is it that she's still not over her death in Prophecy Girl and doesn't think it would be fair to try to plan a "real" romance with Xander (or whomever) when she knows her days are likely numbered?

Non-spoiler, since the scene was cut:  In Marti's next script, Giles tells Jenny (or would have told, had the scene survived) that "the Slayer rarely survives into the middle-20s".  So even though Marti allegedly has never seen Season 1, she still might have gotten the "Buffy's not exactly making long-term plans" memo, I guess.  (See also Marti's What's My Line, Part 1 script, where Buffy has zero interest in the Career Fair and gets so triggered by Willow's trying to get her to imagine future possibilities ["Do the words 'sealed in fate' ring a bell?"] that Xander has to intervene.)

Spoiler

And of course, Marti's Surprise script ends with Buffy's Big Mistake, where she lets Angel pluck that pesky flower.  Angel's pained declaration of love, followed by "I try not to, but I can't stop" makes even more sense if we'd seen Angel fighting against the relationship here, rather than having to think back to Reptile Boy (eight episodes before!) to remember his trying to push Buffy away.

Buffy's answering "Me, too. I can't either" plays as rather jejeune, since Angel is struggling with all the details of his demonic existence (even if he doesn't suspect he'll lose his soul, it's not hard for Angel to imagine things going horribly wrong when he and Buffy take it to the next level;  one fanfic I remember had Angel terrified he'd tear Buffy to shreds in the throes of demonic passion) whereas Buffy mostly seems like a girl who really wants to get laid.  (Not that it isn't a big step for her, not that she hasn't been considering the subject [as seen in the "seizing is kind of inevitable" conversation with Willow], but IMO it always felt as if Buffy isn't getting the scope of Angel's issues here.)

But if Buffy really does still have the "I died and everything" iss-yews at play, then perhaps her "inability" to resist Angel is more along the lines of her just trying to live as much as she can as quickly as she can, and thinking of Angel as "safe" precisely because he'll have a long, long unlife after she's gone?  Which might also account for Buffy's guilt-a-palooza in Marti's I Only Have Eyes for You, where she blames herself for Angel's soulless-ness, for "doing that" to him.  Hmmm.

One more from the script:

Quote

BUFFY: We can't let them spread those things.

XANDER: I know. I'll handle it. Can you hold the fort? Better yet -- can you kill the fort?

BUFFY: I'll try.

Aww, I like that one.

In the script, Tector doesn't get eaten because he got curious and got too close to Momma Bezoar;  he's completely a victim of circumstance, as Giles bops him on the head and he lands near Momma.  I like Greenwalt giving him a bit more agency in the filmed version; I think it makes him a stronger character.

It's also interesting that Tector calls Angel "Angelus"…and is the only character besides Spike to pronounce it as in "Los Angeles", where Darla and the Master both said "An-JEALOUS".

Spoiler

Jenny also says "An-JEALOUS", two episodes hence.

I had a few theories on why the divide, but it's late and none of them were very good, anyway.  So I'll leave this for the moment.

Remember, don't get too close to one-eyed monsters!  Or to a Bezoar, for that matter.  [/cheap joke, albeit thematic]

Edited by Halting Hex

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1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

Is Buffy's not being able to care and not having a choice about her just being So In Love with Angel?  Or is it that she's still not over her death in Prophecy Girl and doesn't think it would be fair to try to plan a "real" romance with Xander (or whomever) when she knows her days are likely numbered?

I think second version is more accurate. People who have that kind of issues tend to play Russian roulette with their lives. Unfortunately they may put other people's lives in danger too 

Spoiler

(the way Buffy does when her little romance with Angel spins out of control in the very next ep).

 

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