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S04.E04: Chapter Sixty-One: Halloween

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When ominous videotapes begin appearing on doorsteps across Riverdale, widespread fear quickly returns to the town. At Stonewall Prep, Jughead learns about a series of mysterious disappearances that have occurred to former students at the school. Meanwhile, Archie’s plan to create a safe space for the town’s kids gets derailed when some unwanted visitors crash their Halloween party. Elsewhere, Veronica comes face to face with trouble, while Betty’s past comes back to haunt her. Lastly, a haunting at Thistlehouse rocks Cheryl and Toni to their core.

Airdate: Wednesday, October 30, 2019

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Halloween and Riverdale seems like a very bad idea.  

We are back to old school Riverdale which I enjoy. The dark forboding nature of the show.  I am not big on crazy Cheryl and her keeping her dead brothers body but at least the show is finding the humor in it.  So It is not turning me completely off.

I always like it when the show takes Betty to dark places.  She is my favorite character and Dark Betty one bad day away from becoming a serial killer is my favorite Betty.  It looks like the show is back to that version of Betty and I couldn't approve more.  Plus brother Charles seems like he has inherited the crazy stalker gene as well.   So goodie goodie.

So has Jughead joined another gang?  Of course he goes to the spookies prep school in all the world because well this is Riverdale and gets locked in a coffin by a bunch of douchbags.  Still an interesting story.

Don't care about Archie and Veronica.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Did Toni really agree that it was preferable to have an actual corpse in the house instead of a doll (that really wasn't all that creepy)?

I know Archie isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but you would think that even he would be able to figure out that if (1) you have a kid telling you they have nowhere to go after the gym closes each night, and (2) you recently started living alone in a big ol' house that presumably has multiple bedrooms, then there is a fairly obvious solution to that problem. (Hint, its not becoming a vigilante -- and yes, I know in real life, there would be all kinds of hoops to jump thru to take in a kid, but this is Riverdale.)

Was I the only one who thought that when Honey wanted to see Kevin alone, we were drifting dangerously close to after school special territory?

Have FP and Alice always been a thing, and I just somehow missed it entirely?

Who didn't see Charles being a creep coming from a mile away?

Why again is heiress/businesswoman Veronica still waitressing at Pops?  Is she still suppose to be using it as a cover for running the speak easy that everyone seems to know about?

Yes, Betty, you have definitely exhibited the mental stability required to become a FBI agent.  (At least, you already have the bomb diffusing thing down pat).

Jug, your professor was totally in on the whole coffin thing.

Edited by Bulldog · Reason: I actually can spell.
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Before my mini-rant, I will say it was actually quite creepy to have tapes of the outside of people’s houses. LOL @ Archie moving thisclose to his mini screen, though. 

But....we’re only on the fourth episode of S4 and I feel like Riverdale is stuck again. I don’t know why or how they just seemingly continue to go in this SAME circle. It’s neverending. Enough with Jason, enough with a shady Charles, enough with the Black Hood, enough with “serial killer genes” nonsense, enough with Archie as some kid vigilante. And that’s leaving out the complete repetitiveness of Hiram. And on top of all this, Jughead is NOT dead. We know y’all don’t have the balls for that. Instead, try doing something a *bit* unpredictable for like, once, and stop with the cheap bait for social media clicks.

I just feel like at a certain point, some of these stories need to be laid to rest. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Was I the only one who thought that when Honey wanted to see Kevin alone, we were drifting dangerously close to after school special territory?

At first I was thinking "Is he hitting on Kevin?" and wound up at "Is he a ghost hitting on Kevin?" Seriously, did he and Stonewall Prep I Had Your Phone But Didn't Know About The Prank Honest guy go to some teaching college run by the Sisters of Quiet Mercy or something? 

 Jug needs to get the hell out of this nuthouse. People there are  way too super casual about drugging and nearly smothering kids. (I did like the hookback with Lovecraft and its little shout out to the last Halloween ep with the Cthulu delivery.)

Gawd, even for Archie and Vee Archie was a dumbass and Veronica massively entitled this go round.  Just volunteer your friend in New York to whip up two custom costumes including boots and accessories with like ten minutes notice, Ronnie, jeez! And while at least Archie remembered police exist, maybe call THE ACTUAL POLICE STATION rather than just leaving messages for Sheriff Jones about the gang with guns threatening a building full of minor children?

Of fucking course Charles is a loony tune. Because when has Betty ever had a single nice thing ever? This shit was exhausting the first time with Chic (and I'm not going to get into that serial killer gene bullshit again) and I'm not looking forward to a storyline I thought was blessedly over with getting dragged from the grave (ha.)

Once again the propensity for barely acknowledging these people know each other spins into Ludicrous Town with a quickness--Betty barely reacting to Jug never showing up or calling her, telling Jellybean to lock herself in her room and that's it for her for the night, Veronica--quite well, I must admit--fighting off an escaped lunatic without her ever calling Archie at any point to explain why she's going to be late. While I assume some connective tissue was cut for time it made everybody look like they had amnesia.

Toni finally got something to do (and those were some damn elaborate costumes for just hanging around the house, but that's Cheryl The Eternally Extra, so okay) but again, they're trying to do something new but there's too much old stuff here. Jason should literally be falling apart at the seams and while I get that Riverdale's a tough town, at this point I would happily join Dodger's gang rather than stay at Thistle House.  Cheryl apparently is not only a Blossom but a Venture brother.

Movie references I caught:

Kill Bill

Halloween

Have You Checked The Children?

The Boy

Buried

Cache

What did I miss?

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Cheryl and Toni dressing up as Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn was the epitome of fan service, but that naturally just the icing of this crazy cake that is Cheryl/Toni.  So, Toni finds out that Cheryl has been keeping her dead bro's body this entire time and basically acts like it is a mild nuisance?  And then it all ends with her picking keeping a corpse around over a creepy doll?  I think Toni needs help, y'all!  She clearly doesn't see how bad this relationship is becoming.  Meanwhile, it turns out that Cheryl and Jason were actually suppose to have another sibling when they were born, but Cheryl... absorbed him in the womb?  Of all the crazy shit that goes down on this show, they really seem to save the craziest stuff for Cheryl.

Hey, Jughead?  Maybe Stonewall really isn't for you, because everyone apparently sucks there.  Including Professor Sam Witwer, who I totally think was in on that "prank."

Surprise, surprise: Archie's little vigilante act last episode still didn't solve Riverdale's crime problem, so now he's... going to be a full-fledge superhero with spandex, tights, and everything?  He really wants in on that D.C. crossover, huh?!

Of course, Charlie is doing shady shit.  None of the Drapers are normal!

This is totally an episode where Veronica being chased by an escaped serial killer and it ending with her setting him on fire in her speakeasy is pretty much just an after thought.

Not sure what to make of Honey and is scenes with Kevin and Reggie.  I almost thought he was hitting on them, but I'm not sure if that is the case since I remember there being a lot of controversy over Kerr Smith clearly not being comfortable with his gay scenes on Dawson's Creek.  Of course, that was almost twenty years ago, so maybe he's changed on that front.

That final tease was hilarious!  No way they are killing off Jughead.  I can't wait to see what the big twist will be for that one!

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15 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Toni finds out that Cheryl has been keeping her dead bro's body this entire time and basically acts like it is a mild nuisance?  And then it all ends with her picking keeping a corpse around over a creepy doll?  I think Toni needs help, y'all!

Hey, that's consistent from pretty much the start of their relationship, when she gave Cheryl a pep talk that she was still the same girl who burnt down Thornhill and cut off her mother's oxygen supply.

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Seemed like a filler episode that could have been used anywhere.

I was wondering where Alice and Betty was staying, I guess they kicked the memory of Gladys Jones to the curb.

I am surprised that Alice and Betty would let Cheryl keep the twins, they must want some visitation rights. Nana can't be that great a caretaker. 

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Wait, so...FP and Alice are now together again out of nowhere and now they're all living in that house as a family? Presumably with Jughead and Betty as a couple? That is crazy.

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7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Toni finds out that Cheryl has been keeping her dead bro's body this entire time and basically acts like it is a mild nuisance?  And then it all ends with her picking keeping a corpse around over a creepy doll?  I think Toni needs help, y'all!  She clearly doesn't see how bad this relationship is becoming. 

She was acting like it was an annoyance, rather than a really, really big problem. And then, yeah, apparently a doll is creepier than a corpse that, quite frankly, should be decomposing already. Because I know nothing about embalming, would that allow a body like this, that's been dead for at least two years, be this put together still? Because this may be more ridiculous than Edgar's Rocket. 

Jughead, run from Stonewall Prep. Professor Sam Witwer was WAY too chill about the other kids throwing Jughead in a coffin all night and leading him to believe that he was buried underground. Not cool. 

I don't necessarily blame Archie for not just bringing the kid home with him; last time he tried to do that, the kid was trying to kill him. But...going Superhero Archie is probably not going to end well. 

I think Veronica's plot was one of the best that she's had because it had ZERO to do with her family or with Archie.

The call is coming from inside the house! Or inside Polly's mental institution, but it's obviously not Polly so....I wonder who the other character is with Polly, because if it's not her, then it's someone else we've actually seen. 

I honestly thought it was going to end up being Charles, and I'm still not ruling him out. I'm fine if they keep Charles as actual Charles, though. 

Mr. Honey, you're creepy AF. But Kerr Smith looks like he's having a blast, at the very least. I mean, he's about as creepy as Hiram with his obsession over teenagers but hey, that's Riverdale, for ya!

So, obviously Jughead isn't actually dead in that final scenes, which either leaves a fakeout where they're trying to draw someone out (maybe Professor Sam Witwer? Or Brett?) OR he has a twin because why the hell not? I'm trying to think of other things it could be. Those are the only two things I can think of right now, but I'm sure I can come up with something more creative...like, Jughead is actually dead but his ghost will be in the show from now on. 

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OR he has a twin because why the hell not?

Well, Cole Sprouse does have a twin and he's an actor as well, I think, so...! 

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I think FP and Betty looked upset, but yes, they weren’t on the floor sobbing.

I’m leaning more and more towards my original thought, which is that the teens/family know what happened to Jug and are helping him fake his death. 

Or ~serial killer Betty~ killed him. 🤡🤣

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6 minutes ago, Star Gazer said:

I'm agreeing with your first thought because I think that's true. I am curious about the why though. Like is Jughead faking his death because he killed someone? Which I don know I I'm looking forward to that. Also again if FP knows what was the point of the season 3 finale flash forward when Betty said they can't tell their parents? See I'm already poking holes in their flash forwards.

And I'm sorry but they really need to let go of this Betty and the serial killer story. It stopped being interesting a while ago. 

Well, we don’t know the timing of these flash forwards. As in, what came first, middle, last. And maybe FP doesn’t know the real details but just knows Jug needs to fake his death for some important reason, who knows. 

I can’t stand Betty’s story. Honestly, the only one that is mildly holding my interest is Jughead’s but even that isn’t good because Riverdale refuses to be unpredictable. At the end of the day, we know Jughead isn’t dead and they’re all going to be fine.  When you have no stakes, you feel no consequences for what happens or doesn’t happen. It takes any real enjoyment out of the story.

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"I wish I could say that this is all because of Halloween, but this is actually fairly typical." Aint it the truth Betty? You would think that a night where Jughead is buried in a coffin by his classmates (and probably teacher), Toni and Cheryl are haunted by Cheryl's possible ghost triplet, while Cheryl and Toni act like having her other dead triplet around is totally not weird, Monroe and Archie start a superhero gang war, Moose disappears without a trace, Betty gets calls from her sister pretending to be her dead evil dad, something weird went down with Kevin and Reggie and the new principle, and Veronica sets a serial killer on fire would be an especially strange night, but in Riverdale? Its pretty much a typical Thursday. 

So, Toni is just cool with Jason's dead corpse hanging around the house? I mean, thats pretty bizarre, but I guess when you willingly not only date but live with Cheryl and her horror story of a life, thats kind of what you deal with. Dead bodies that my girlfriend talks to like he is still alive in the house? Thats just kind of quirky, but a creepy ass sailor doll?! Get that shit outta here! 

What the hell was up with the new principle? His scenes with Reggie and Kevin were somehow unsettling, but its hard to put my finger on why. Maybe because he got real personal about them and their issues, which he knows all about? Maybe its because this is Riverdale and I trust no one? I was pretty convinced for a minuet there that he was hitting on one or both of them, or would try to convince Kevin to sleep with him to help him get into NYU, but I am really glad we didnt go there...for now anyway. Seriously, what the fuck? 

No way is that really Jughead, come on now. FP and Betty would be way more freaked out, and obviously Jughead wont actually die! Long lost twin? Clone? Faking his death to solve whatever is going on at his creepy prep school with the missing kids?

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Wrote this over at A/V club and posting it here too:

I really loved Ronnie’s plan, especially with the setup of the killer tucking his smokes back in his pocket, so she knows he’s got a lighter or matches, so when she flees she can get the booze ready to dump on him after she cuts the lights! Riverdale is so bizarre in how it minds its Ps and Qs but writes sentences in the manner of a deranged madman’s notebooks.

For instance, the only way for these various stories to work is to set up why everybody’s separated and ostensibly why they aren’t being worried about (like Ronnie taking an Uber) but then absolutely ignoring the fact that Archie and Betty would be crazed with worry when V an Jug don’t show up all damn night! You know damn well the pair of them would not be sitting around lecturing preteens and answering prank calls--Archie would end up recruiting Dodger’s gang to head over to Pop’s and Betty would shanghai Jellybean into breaking into Stonewall and Nancy Drewing the shit out of that place.

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1 hour ago, Star Gazer said:

And these aren't spoilers, I think anyone knows Jughead is no going anywhere. Like I said I don't want any of our main characters to die so I'm happy that its probably not ever going to happen but the fake outs are lame and they need to stop.

To me, it just shows laziness and a lack of imagination and creativity. They really have no idea how to write a compelling drama with risks and it SHOWS. They literally keep telling the same stories over and over and think we don’t notice.

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So Veronica sets a serial killer on fire and....nothing? 

Is the body still lying on the floor of the speakeasy? Did the cops take him away? 

My inquiring mind wants to know. 

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2 hours ago, jewel21 said:

So Veronica sets a serial killer on fire and....nothing? 

Is the body still lying on the floor of the speakeasy? Did the cops take him away? 

My inquiring mind wants to know. 

Maybe she asked Cheryl to come get him.   Jason could probably use some company when Cheryl and Toni aren't around.  

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On 10/30/2019 at 8:15 PM, Bulldog said:

Have FP and Alice always been a thing, and I just somehow missed it entirely?

They’ve never been in a relationship until now. I believe this episode was the first time they’ve shown them kiss (even though they were shown in bed together for a second last season). It was something that was teased and spoken about with bits of information, like Charles being their son, but honestly, I was never convinced as to why they work. It was never sold to me and when they had a chance to do that through flashbacks of when they were teens, it got even worse. Alice and Fred had a deeper moment than FP/Alice did, which was odd.

Edited by HeatLifer
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57 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

They’ve never been in a relationship until now. I believe this episode was the first time they’ve shown them kiss (even though they were shown in bed together for a second last season). It was something that was teased and spoken about with bits of information, like Charles being their son, but honestly, I was never convinced as to why they work. It was never sold to me and when they had a chance to do that through flashbacks of when they were teens, it got even worse. Alice and Fred had a deeper moment than FP/Alice did, which was odd.

The oddest thing to me about this is they've never even given them a scene together (ONE scene) either establishing their relationship, showing that they got together, confessing feelings, something to make it clear what exactly is going on there, and when it started.

The parents in general got more scenes of them on their own in the first two seasons (or maybe even just a season and a half). It doesn't bother me that much to see them less, but when it's stuff like this, I would at least like to know for example, when Alice and FP got back together. Or when they got together for the first time! We never saw anything. It was just happening all of a sudden, and then it wasn't. And now apparently it is again.

I mean, did FP have any reaction to Charles being his son? It seemed like that should have warranted some kind of scene of him finding that out.

Edited by ruby24
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I do recall one scene, I think in season two, where FP was trying to get Alice to go to something and she said she couldn't because Hal didn't want to go. He blurts out "than leave him!" realizes what he's said and stutters something about "leave him at home,"  and it did manage to convey a sense of carrying a torch and the history the characters supposedly had. It was well done. 

That's the only example of this great love history I can remember, though.

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11 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I mean, did FP have any reaction to Charles being his son?

I don’t believe so, no. And, I’m sorry, but it should be a bigger deal to Betty & Jughead that they share a brother (regardless of blood) and they’re living in the same home like they’re a family. It’s weird and should be acknowledged.

Riverdale has missed so many beats for various things (and it’s a long list that would be OT for this thread, lol) because they only know how to make room for two types of scenes: 1. whatever plot they’re trying to move forward, 2. couples in the teen scene. 

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4 minutes ago, Star Gazer said:

all the romantic couples are going to just let things go now just so we can get fun makeout scenes. 

Man, if I have to see Archie and Veronica in bed one more damn time. #FreeArchie

5 minutes ago, Star Gazer said:

Toni is going crazy as well? I

Considering the fact that Toni literally interacts with NO ONE outside of Cheryl...I wouldn’t be surprised.

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9 minutes ago, Star Gazer said:

The show doesn’t know how to write her anymore

They don’t treat Toni as her own character with her own qualities and quirks. She’s just “Cheryl’s girlfriend.” It’s a waste that they can’t see beyond that and have her interact with other characters or even introduce some of her family members.

11 minutes ago, Star Gazer said:

I don’t mind Varchie, I kind of like them.

I just like Archie more when he’s not near her. They’re certainly better when Hiram is off-screen, but their relationship is very much, “Archie needs to do something! Veronica has the money!”  It’s repetitive. 

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1 hour ago, Star Gazer said:

Thats the problem this show is always going to have. I get that it’s face paced and we don’t have time to sit down and talk things out but really? It’s getting bad. I mean we don’t even acknowledge the fact that Veronica and Reggie were an actual thing last year and Reggie still hangs around Veronica and Archie with no real issue? Even though last season when he hooked up with her and then Archie returned and dropped him like a bad habit he was all upset, now he’s like “whatever, Archie’s my bff forever and I will fight people who thinks he’s their BFF!” What? I mean whatever. 

Yeah, wtf? This bugs me too. It's like no one cares, not even him? When he tried pretty hard to make Veronica like him for real and it seemed like he really did love her (or at least said he did, right?)

I'm also wondering, now that they've increased Reggie's entire role on the show in general, but also gotten rid of anyone else they could potentially pair him with (like Midge or Josie), are there any other Archies characters I can't remember who haven't been introduced on the show yet? Because he's like the odd one out without a love interest now.

Unless they're still planning to go back to an Archie/Veronica/Reggie triangle again, but it seems like they never really wanted to do that last year. It was never in doubt that Veronica would always like Archie more. If you're going to do a real triangle, the person in the middle has to be somewhat torn. Or it has to be clear that they do like both of them, but I never got the impression that Veronica was really into Reggie. Then again, he was still basically a personality free character last season- this season is the first time he finally seems like a real person. If they did the triangle now, it would have more weight simply because of that.

But maybe there's another Archies character we haven't seen yet that I'm forgetting. I know they screwed up Chuck pretty badly on this show, but did they ever do Nancy?

Or what about the Cabots? Seems like they should bring them in. New rich twins as a threat to Cheryl seems obvious.

Edited by ruby24

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I don't mind Veronica/Reggie (that is comics canon too), I just think if they're going to do it, they ought to make it a little more mutual. If they're never going to let go of Archie/Veronica as the ultimate pair, fine, but that doesn't mean she can't also like somebody else too. 

I mean, they let Archie do it. They made it seem like he genuinely liked Josie last season. Can't Veronica genuinely like Reggie too?

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7 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I don't mind Veronica/Reggie (that is comics canon too), I just think if they're going to do it, they ought to make it a little more mutual. If they're never going to let go of Archie/Veronica as the ultimate pair, fine, but that doesn't mean she can't also like somebody else too. 

I mean, they let Archie do it. They made it seem like he genuinely liked Josie last season. Can't Veronica genuinely like Reggie too?

I thought she did like Reggie for real, it just didn’t have enough time to develop because they wanted to quickly repair Archie and Veronica by the end of the third season, which I will never understand. Alas, I actually don’t think it’s the last time they’ll visit Ronnie and Reggie.*

*And I’m not talking about endgame or anything of that nature. Just the mere fact that if this show has more seasons, both Varchie and Bughead are not going to always be together.

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I think Betty and Jughead are more likely to stay together through the series than the show's other couples. I could even see them getting married super young (the show already has them apparently living as a couple, in the same house as their parents, also living as a couple, which is crazy, imo. Especially since they're in high school).

But if they're going to be that couple, I don't see why they can't do some other kinds of romances, triangles, etc, with the other couples. Archie and Veronica do NOT have to be together consistently over the course of the show- I'm really surprised they got them back together so fast last season. I mean technically they weren't together most of it, but I thought they would at least go another season before reuniting.

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I think the thing I'd like most is for Riverdale to choose a tone and stick with it. Even within individual episodes. Even within individual scenes.

Like, the scene were Veronica hears the news broadcast telling her the trucker is a serial killer -- was that supposed to be funny or scary? The radio broadcast seemed satirical, like I was supposed to laugh at it, but then his facial expression was really threatening and she dropped all her dishes and ran away like she was seriously afraid, so...

On 10/30/2019 at 11:15 PM, Bulldog said:

I know Archie isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but you would think that even he would be able to figure out that if (1) you have a kid telling you they have nowhere to go after the gym closes each night, and (2) you recently started living alone in a big ol' house that presumably has multiple bedrooms, then there is a fairly obvious solution to that problem. (Hint, its not becoming a vigilante -- and yes, I know in real life, there would be all kinds of hoops to jump thru to take in a kid, but this is Riverdale.)

This is a good point. In the universe Riverdale takes place in, Archie could turn his house into a foster home or something. At this point, there's a pattern where Archie's soltion to everything is violence, and the show isn't really acknowledging that that could be a problem.

On 10/31/2019 at 12:18 AM, Snookums said:

Gawd, even for Archie and Vee Archie was a dumbass and Veronica massively entitled this go round.  Just volunteer your friend in New York to whip up two custom costumes including boots and accessories with like ten minutes notice, Ronnie, jeez!

I actually thought at first that she was volunteering her friend to make costumes for the kids, because some of them probably can't afford to buy costumes and stuff. But, of course, this was just the latest game of dress-up with her boyfriend. I think it's kind of an icky dynamic but I guess at this point it's in character for them -- she likes bossing people and he likes being bossed, so she manages the aesthetics of whatever he's trying to do.

On 10/31/2019 at 8:46 AM, Lady Calypso said:

She was acting like it was an annoyance, rather than a really, really big problem. And then, yeah, apparently a doll is creepier than a corpse that, quite frankly, should be decomposing already. Because I know nothing about embalming, would that allow a body like this, that's been dead for at least two years, be this put together still? Because this may be more ridiculous than Edgar's Rocket.

...

I honestly thought it was going to end up being Charles, and I'm still not ruling him out. I'm fine if they keep Charles as actual Charles, though. 

I think it could be funny if Betty just keeps getting new brothers named Charles and they all turn out to be creeps.

The corpse thing might be the moment the show jumped the shark for me. It goes back to what I said about tone -- if the whole show were purely satire or consistently taking place in a hyper-reality where weird shit like this always happened, I'd be okay with it. But I'm being asked to accept that they've just been hanging out with a dead body for the past few weeks at the same time as I'm being asked to accept that Reggie has an actual, real world issue with his abusive dad. It feels strange.

On 10/31/2019 at 2:13 PM, tennisgurl said:

What the hell was up with the new principle? His scenes with Reggie and Kevin were somehow unsettling, but its hard to put my finger on why.

I 100% believe he's being set up to be evil somehow because that's what happens to every new character on this show, but I think it would be interesting if he were just some tough love principal who got sent to Riverdale because he's good at relating to troubled youth, and this was a case of him sincerely trying to connect with Reggie by holding him accountable for his actions in a super hardcore way that doesn't jeopardize his ability to graduate or go to college.

I'm not saying I think smashing someone's car windows is okay -- just wouldn't it be an interesting curveball for this show if the principal didn't turn out to be evil? (Knowing he's 100% going to turn out evil).

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 but I think it would be interesting if he were just some tough love principal who got sent to Riverdale because he's good at relating to troubled youth, and this was a case of him sincerely trying to connect with Reggie by holding him accountable for his actions in a super hardcore way that doesn't jeopardize his ability to graduate or go to college.

Honestly if you have to be told that massive property destruction is NOT the way to connect with troubled youth you really need a refresher course in, like, life.

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On 10/31/2019 at 8:46 AM, Lady Calypso said:

She was acting like it was an annoyance, rather than a really, really big problem. And then, yeah, apparently a doll is creepier than a corpse that, quite frankly, should be decomposing already. Because I know nothing about embalming, would that allow a body like this, that's been dead for at least two years, be this put together still? Because this may be more ridiculous than Edgar's Rocket. 

Jughead, run from Stonewall Prep. Professor Sam Witwer was WAY too chill about the other kids throwing Jughead in a coffin all night and leading him to believe that he was buried underground. Not cool. 

I don't necessarily blame Archie for not just bringing the kid home with him; last time he tried to do that, the kid was trying to kill him. But...going Superhero Archie is probably not going to end well. 

I think Veronica's plot was one of the best that she's had because it had ZERO to do with her family or with Archie.

The call is coming from inside the house! Or inside Polly's mental institution, but it's obviously not Polly so....I wonder who the other character is with Polly, because if it's not her, then it's someone else we've actually seen. 

I honestly thought it was going to end up being Charles, and I'm still not ruling him out. I'm fine if they keep Charles as actual Charles, though. 

Mr. Honey, you're creepy AF. But Kerr Smith looks like he's having a blast, at the very least. I mean, he's about as creepy as Hiram with his obsession over teenagers but hey, that's Riverdale, for ya!

So, obviously Jughead isn't actually dead in that final scenes, which either leaves a fakeout where they're trying to draw someone out (maybe Professor Sam Witwer? Or Brett?) OR he has a twin because why the hell not? I'm trying to think of other things it could be. Those are the only two things I can think of right now, but I'm sure I can come up with something more creative...like, Jughead is actually dead but his ghost will be in the show from now on. 

If they were stupid enough to kill off Jughead off I'd be done. Cause I like Jug AND they would probably go the route of the Toxic Horrid Triangle from the Comics 

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21 hours ago, Snookums said:

Honestly if you have to be told that massive property destruction is NOT the way to connect with troubled youth you really need a refresher course in, like, life.

YMMV. I'm not trying to stump for the Obviously Evil principal, who will probably turn out to be a crime lord or something, but I do think that a principal whose attitude is "you eff with me, I eff with you" can earn respect from certain types of students. And I don't honestly think that's the wrong approach in every case, especially when the alternatives on offer are "I call the police" or "I expel you so you can't graduate." Blithely wrecking someone's life is a lot worse to me than wrecking their car, and I've seen a lot of administrators who seem creepily eager to do the first thing.

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I really can't get how anybody could possibly be a Choni shipper after this episode. Just ick. Ick all around. I just want to take a bath now after watching their scenes. Watching Cheryl gaslight Toni into keeping her brother's corpse around was disgusting, as was Toni basically shrugging and going on with it. She's basically living with a female Norman Bates.

I'm cool with Charles being a creeper as long as he's actually Charles because I'm calling bullshit on nobody asking for a DNA test after the Blonde (Now Red) Dave Franco stuff.

My guess is that Charles is some kind of mindhunter who wants to keep tabs on Betty to see if she develops into a serial killer.

I totally thought Mr. Honey was going to hit on Kevin. Either way, Kerr Smith does seem to be having a blast. He never gets to play the villain. I think the last thing I saw him in was as Callie's derpy biological father on The Fosters.

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I don't think the show is going to try to fake us out with another Jughead death and will let us in on it. The flash-forwards are going to lead up to the culmination and explanation. I also think Betty and FP know Jughead's not dead, hence their more controlled reaction. And we all know that Dr Curdle Jr will do whatever Betty asks of him. Perhaps Jughead will go into deep hiding and his grandfather as well as the rest of the C4 are going to help him. Hell, for all we know that is Souphead Jones lying on that slab played by Dylan Sprouse. With this show, anything is possible so I'm not even going to try to guess for realsies. 

Star Gazer, I have to give you props continuing to watch the show considering how much you're over it. It's been four seasons now and I don't think it's changing. And I hope it doesn't! Sorry but I love how ridiculous the stories and dialogue are while the characters play it straight and barely crack. You know they're dying to break through that fourth wall!

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In the next episode, the further foreshadowing of Jughead’s demise will have Betty and the gang watching his body be loaded into the cremation oven and incinerated.

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On 10/31/2019 at 12:18 AM, Snookums said:

Movie references I caught:

Kill Bill

Halloween

Have You Checked The Children?

The Boy

Buried

Cache

What did I miss?

I kinda thought that Sam Witwer opening the very “vampire” shaped coffin might have been a nod to the vampire character he played on Being Human. 

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