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S04.E06: Girls’ Night Out

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With Katie’s 40th birthday fast approaching, her self-esteem starts to wane. So Greg encourages her to go out and enjoy a night on the town with the girls, even suggesting she leave her wedding ring behind for a night of faux-single, silly fun. Meanwhile, Angela receives devastating news that will turn Doris’ life upside down. While Katie is away, Greg enlists the kids’ help to create a birthday present that is a heartfelt reminder of how much she is loved.

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This was a fun episode. I love Tripp and Cooper! Their baby bjorn bit had me rolling, and so did Tripp getting all protective with Oliver over the Italian seasoning. 

Greg’s scheme to ground the kids was great, too.

Mr. Doris is very handsome, what was Doris thinking, being so mean to him all the time?! I’m glad the show humanized her a bit more in this episode.

I don’t think Sarunas J. Jackson has the same number of teeth as the rest of us.

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Cooper is looking up to Greg as his dad now. Cool. And sad. And Tripp looking out for Oliver was unexpected and sweet. It was nice and very touching that Greg is confident (at least hopeful -- us, too!) that Cooper and Tripp will remain part of his family for a long time.

It was a treat to see Katie, Doris and Angela all kicking up their heels and having a fun time for a change. The show can get too bogged down in conflicts and angst. I'd rather see people having fun and be able to laugh with them, not at them.

Edited by Bobbin · Reason: Added some words I didn't think of before.
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I'm so happy Cooper made an appearance again. He is like a ray of sunshine.

The part where Oliver and Cooper were sugary sweet to  Greg was so funny, very different from how they normally behave. The one criticism of Greg's book was the best 😄

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Mr. Doris is very handsome, what was Doris thinking, being so mean to him all the time?! I’m glad the show humanized her a bit more in this episode.

Yeah I was kind of hoping Doris would do some self reflection and ask her husband to go to counseling or something. I know that's not the comedy route but clearly she took her husband for granted and realizes it too late. It was nice of Katie and Doris to be supportive but they're wrong about her husband needing to love her just the way she is. Nobody has to put up with verbal abuse and Doris is a very abrasive person.

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Cooper is looking up to Greg as his dad now. Cool. And sad. 

It's been a long-running gag that Cooper seems to think Katie and Greg are his parents. This isn't the first time he's referred to Greg as "Dad." There was an episode last season where Katie had to keep reminding him he wasn't their son. And he would just laugh. Yet in this same episode Cooper said he wished he had parents that would support him or something so he's not completely delusional. He's just very mixed up I guess.

I can't believe we had all that buildup around taking this picture and then we never even saw Katie getting it!

Edited by iMonrey
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I enjoyed both plots of this episode. I loved that Greg didn't mind that Katie got hit on in the bar (and wasn't that nice?). And recreating the picture was such a great idea! So sweet to include Cooper and Trip in one of the photos.

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I can't believe we had all that buildup around taking this picture and then we never even saw Katie getting it!

Maybe a future episode will be her actual birthday and she'll get it then?

7 minutes ago, MaryMitch said:

I loved that Greg didn't mind that Katie got hit on in the bar (and wasn't that nice?). 

I liked that too, and that he still put the phone number through the pencil sharpener.

There seemed to be a lot of time spent on finding ways to ground them...seemed like they should have had plenty of time to do the picture and still go to the movies...

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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah I was kind of hoping Doris would do some self reflection and ask her husband to go to counseling or something. I know that's not the comedy route but clearly she took her husband for granted and realizes it too late. It was nice of Katie and Doris to be supportive but they're wrong about her husband needing to love her just the way she is. Nobody has to put up with verbal abuse and Doris is a very abrasive person.

It's been a long-running gag that Cooper seems to think Katie and Greg are his parents. This isn't the first time he's referred to Greg as "Dad." There was an episode last season where Katie had to keep reminding him he wasn't their son. And he would just laugh. Yet in this same episode Cooper said he wished he had parents that would support him or something so he's not completely delusional. He's just very mixed up I guess.

Doris is the worst!  She is such a horrible person that I didn't even feel bad for her.  Actually, Richard is also a horrible person, so they are very well matched.  Honestly, it would probably be better for them to just stay together rather than inflict their horribleness on other people. 😉

About Cooper... I don't think he's delusional.  I think of it this way... There are times kind and generous adults kind of "adopt" (not legally, but otherwise) a kid in need and include them as a member of their family because they desperately need parenting.  Cooper is very aware that he needs parenting and his parents are not up to the task - for all intents and purposes it seems he doesn't even really have parents - so he's "adopted" his best friend's parents as his own. 

I think it's sweet and I'm glad Katie and Greg are able to provide a lot of what he needs, that he should have gotten from his own parents.  (Plus Cooper gets to experience what reality is like for people who aren't super-rich, which is a big bonus.)

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

There seemed to be a lot of time spent on finding ways to ground them...seemed like they should have had plenty of time to do the picture and still go to the movies...

For sure!  That was definitely a plot-fail.  (I still enjoyed the episode though.)

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7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yet in this same episode Cooper said he wished he had parents that would support him or something so he's not completely delusional. He's just very mixed up I guess

Not delusional, just very, very neglected. That's why I like that Greg accepts him as family.

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Is it really a thing that a lawyer can't represent you if the opposing party has already asked that lawyer to represent them? Even if that lawyer turned them down? I do remember this from Big Little Lies but it seems like an odd rule. Doris's husband shouldn't be able to prevent Angela from representing Doris simply by walking into her office and asking her to represent him. That seems silly. 

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It’s been a plot point of many books and shows. You don’t even have to ask the lawyer to represent you, just discussing your divorce plans with the lawyer is enough. So if you’re going to get a divorce, savvy people talk to all the top divorce lawyers so then those lawyers cannot represent your spouse.

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I found this:

https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/attorney-ethics-and-divorce-what-to-know

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  • A lawyer cannot represent a client if the representation involves a current conflict of interest. (Such as representing both parties in a divorce if both clients do not agree to it).

I would think that simply walking into an office and asking a lawyer to represent you wouldn't cause a conflict of interest. But I'm not a lawyer.

Oh, I also found this, in answer to a question on a forum:

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Depends on the type of contact with that attorney. If you just made a phone call and did not actually hire the attorney or pay a retainer for service, then there might not be a conflict. In a small town, it is not unheard of for people contemplating divorce to go around paying retainers to the best divorce lawyers so as to block their marital adversary from ever using them.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-unethical-for-a-lawyer-to-represent-one-spouse-in-a-divorce-after-the-other-spouse-made-an-initial-contact-to-hire-that-lawyer-instead

From other places (I've done a quick search) it seems that it depends on if retainers were paid or if actual consultation occurred.

Bottom line: it's interesting, but it IS a sitcom, so maybe we shouldn't look to it for legal advice! 😄

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I was a legal assistant years ago and at the firm I worked at, what Richard did would absolutely create a conflict. Even if he had just made a call and did not pay a retainer — the attorney that took the call would have made notes and it would have been given to me to enter into the firm’s database, which we used to check for conflicts of interest.

ETA: I do live in a small town, but we have an unusually large concentration of lawyers for a town our size. Things may have changed in the 3 years since I worked there, but I had never heard of anyone calling around town to generate conflicts of interest. However, we’re not far from a major metropolitan area, so it would be no big deal for someone to hire a “big city” lawyer instead.

Edited by link417
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On 11/2/2019 at 12:03 PM, iMonrey said:

Nobody has to put up with verbal abuse and Doris is a very abrasive person.

She prides herself on how terrible she is to Richard, and especially, to her kids.  I would say that Richard should try to get custody of them, but he doesn't seem to care about them, either.

On 11/2/2019 at 1:21 PM, ams1001 said:

There seemed to be a lot of time spent on finding ways to ground them...seemed like they should have had plenty of time to do the picture and still go to the movies...

Yes, plus if they really were grounded, why would they agree to recreate the picture?  Kids who are being punished are generally not particularly cooperative.

I wonder if Doris will be cut off (save for child support) the way Leslie Bibb's character was.  Since she doesn't spend any time with her kids, there's no reason she wouldn't be expected to get a job.  I guess it partially depends on whether there was a pre-nup.

It also seems a little strange for Angela to go into work at 7:30 am? and then cut out for an 8:30ish breakfast everyday with her friends. Maybe lunch, but clients generally expect you to be available at 9 am, and the women never seem to be in any rush. (Although Doris did leave the cafe without her purse when she ran out, and when the 3 women were all in the bathroom, their phones, etc were left unattended on the table, which bugged me.)

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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So, I'm a lawyer, who did divorces for ten years.  Keep in mind that laws and even ethics requirements vary from state to state.  However, The fact that Richard just told Angela he wanted a divorce would NOT create a conflict of interest for her which would prevent her from representing Doris.  Richard did not disclose any other information other than the fact he wanted a divorce.  Where Angela goofed up is in telling Katie and Doris that Richard wanted the divorce.  Until Doris found out, that was confidential information.  Once Doris found out that Richard was divorcing her, THEN Angela could have represented her.  (Yikes!  Doris would be a HORRIBLE divorce client!!  She'd be demanding and unreasonable.  It's even worse when your divorce client is a friend and they are like that.  Angela would have to be NUTS to represent Doris!  Doris needs a divorce lawyer she can order around and abuse.)

As mentioned by a poster above, there was no consultation so no advice was given, and Angela received no information that would work against Richard in the divorce, so no conflict was created. 

Edited by Cowgirl
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1 minute ago, Cowgirl said:

So, I'm a lawyer, who did divorces for ten years.  Keep in mind that laws and even ethics requirements vary from state to state.  However, The fact that Richard just told Angela he wanted a divorce would NOT create a conflict of interest for her which would prevent her from representing Doris.  Richard did not disclose any other information other than the fact he wanted a divorce.  Where Angela goofed up is in telling Katie and Doris that Richard wanted the divorce.  Until Doris found out, that was confidential information.  Once Doris found out that Richard was divorcing her, THEN Angela could have represented her.  (Yikes!  Doris would be a HORRIBLE divorce client!!  She'd be demanding and unreasonable.  It's even worse when your divorce client is a friend and they are like that.  Angela would have to be NUTS to represent Doris!  Doris needs a divorce lawyer she can order around and abuse.)

Aren't all divorcées demanding? Like you have to fight for what's yours of the other half will steal it all away.

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So true!  We all hated doing divorces.  I worded for Legal Services (called Legal Aid in some states) so all my clients were low-income.  I became a lawyer because I wanted to help abused women get divorces.  Well, after ten years of that, I had yet to have a client who didn't give as good as she got.  I'm still sure those people exist out there, but I never had one for a client. My clients would hit their spouses, push their buttons, and often be just as terrible as their spouse. Most divorce attorneys don't do it for long, unless they are in a small town or are making the big bucks.  People don't want to hear me tell them that no, we can't get a pound of flesh, that yes - your husband IS going to get visitation unless he's a sexual abuser, and that divorce is not meant to be a weapon for punishment. (At least the visitation works that way in my state.)

Edited by Cowgirl
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On Saturday, November 02, 2019 at 10:21 AM, ams1001 said:

There seemed to be a lot of time spent on finding ways to ground them...seemed like they should have had plenty of time to do the picture and still go to the movies..

Maybe Greg just really wanted them all to stay home with him while Katie was out with Angela and Doris. Katie is such a powerful presence, Greg doesn't get many opportunities to be the parent.  I've been there.

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8 hours ago, Cowgirl said:

So true!  We all hated doing divorces.  I worded for Legal Services (called Legal Aid in some states) so all my clients were low-income.  I became a lawyer because I wanted to help abused women get divorces.  Well, after ten years of that, I had yet to have a client who didn't give as good as she got.  I'm still sure those people exist out there, but I never had one for a client. My clients would hit their spouses, push their buttons, and often be just as terrible as their spouse. Most divorce attorneys don't do it for long, unless they are in a small town or are making the big bucks.  People don't want to hear me tell them that no, we can't get a pound of flesh, that yes - your husband IS going to get visitation unless he's a sexual abuser, and that divorce is not meant to be a weapon for punishment. (At least the visitation works that way in my state.)

One of my best friends is a lawyer specializing in divorce and mediation, and he's in a small town/affluent suburb (in CT no less) and mostly takes on clients he believes in and wants to help, like women who've been cheated on, abused, or otherwise screwed around with.  I know he has had the crazy/difficult client over his 25 years of practice from what general stuff he's told me (of course he observes strict confidentiality with clients).  He seems to love the drama, so I guess we're all suited to our own calling.  I'll have to ask him if he's ever had a client like Doris before.  I'm betting the answer is "yes".

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I didn't understand Greg's reasoning with the grounding. There seemed to be several hours between when he wanted to do the photo and the movies the kids wanted to go to. He seemed to be trying to keep them there in order to do the photo, so at first I thought part of the bit was for her to "catch" them again. But then they took the photo before she got home anyway. They could've done the photo and been done and then had their night out. No need to fake grounding (or sitting quietly upstairs for 2 hours to avoid grounding) etc. It didn't quite make sense why there seemed to be an intentional wait built in to the photo plot.

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Maybe Greg had to ground them because the kids did not want to go through the prep for the picture and refused to recreate the photo. It did involve getting messy, so then they would have to clean up to get ready to go out.

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Not quite sure where to put this, but the current season of American Housewife received an additional 6 episode order from it's parent network - resulting in a longer season.

I am so happy about it! Katy is the best.

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19 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Not quite sure where to put this, but the current season of American Housewife received an additional 6 episode order from it's parent network - resulting in a longer season.

I am so happy about it! Katy is the best.

My name is link417 and I approve this message. I’m so excited for more of this show!

This episode showed there’s still a lot of fun to be had. I hope there is at least a season 5.

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Yay to more show, especially since there seems to be a dearth of good family sitcoms these days, and the last two or so episodes have been going in a good direction.

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