S21.E06: Murdered at a Bad Address

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

He had another memorable SVU role in "Justice Denied" where he was also wrongfully convicted in one of Benson's cases which may be why you recognized him.

I had forgotten that episode. Did Benson offer her apologies to him? I have a strong feeling, that it was probably someone else's fault, but Benson takes it upon herself to get him off.

I seem to remember Stabler going through the same thing in another episode. But what stood out the most (to me), was that at the end Stabler stood face to face with the guy and offered his most sincerest apologies. A real emotional moment for Stabler.

[illdoc]

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

seem to remember Stabler going through the same thing in another episode. But what stood out the most (to me), was that at the end Stabler stood face to face with the guy and offered his most sincerest apologies. A real emotional moment for Stabler.

Oddly enough, while I don't remember the name of the episode, it is the episode featuring the previous appearance of Wentworth Miller (as the bad cop). Unfortunately,

Spoiler

Wentworth kills the real criminal before his testimony can be taken, so the innocent man can't be released. Stabler was not only apologizing for getting the guy convicted, but for getting his hopes up about being released.

[meatball77]

On 11/1/2019 at 4:11 PM, mamadrama said:

These are things I do in our tiny town that has fewer than 1,000 people-NOT things I would expect out of a NYC detective who works special victims. I had a WTF moment, too. 

As someone who lives in the NYC metro that's actually pretty common for parents of kids Noah's age (he's like 8-10 now?) and even younger.  I'm always amazed when I see four or five year olds half a block ahead of their parents in Manhattan.  As long as they're not young enough that they're going to bolt kids don't need to be always watched in the city.
Although Noah has been kidnapped, you would think she would be a bit paranoid because of that.

[tennisgurl]

Thats two weeks in a row that isnt just about a pretty rich white woman victim and an evil rich white guy as the villain! Miracles abound! 

For real though, that was actually a good episode, I liked how the rape tied into the wrongful conviction years ago and it felt like an old school SVU episode, with actual detective work happening, plot twists that seem plausible, a serial rapist, and a lot of good performances from the guest actors. It was especially nice to see Guillermo Diaz and Wentworth Miller here, especially Guillermo Diaz as Carlos, who was heartbreaking in every scene he was in. It reminded me a bit of the really good based on a true story Netflix mini series Unbelievable, which was about cops who railroaded a teenage rape victim into saying that she made it up, thinking because she was a poor troubled foster kid that she just wanted attention, only to find out she was raped by a serial rapist who raped several other women, which never would have happened if they had done even the minimal amount of police work with her case. Because of a lazy racist cop and a DA who saw a chance to build a career on being "tough on crime" or whatever, multiple innocent people were horribly hurt. The end where Carlos was released and got to see his sister and moms grave, and that people donated money for it, was really sweet and affecting. It had a clear social justice/activism point, about he flaws in the justice system and how people in poor neighborhoods so often dont get justice, but it felt natural, not like the show was just screaming at us trying to get the message across. It was also great seeing Finn and Carisi get more time together working the case, its the first time I have really felt Carisi as a lawyer, and the new cop felt more natural this week. 

Also great to see Warner again, but the whole Olivia plot just seemed so soapy, and basically existed to give Olivia more to angst about and let us focus more on her sad face. Her brother was brought back and killed off just for ANGST! And add me to the group shocked that Olivia turned her back on her son twice in a row, for long periods of time, even after Noah was already kidnapped once already! I know this show hasn't done a kidnapping in ages, but she is still an SVU cop, she should know to keep her eyes on her son! I was totally convinced that she would turn around, and Noah would be gone.  I mean, if some relative had to die, why not Rollins awful sister? 

If we didnt have to deal with the Poor Olivia plot, we could have had follow up with the young victim, or had some closure with Carlos's poor dead boyfriend, or have them charge or at least call out that piece of crap cop who railroaded the two boys in the first place. I mean, because of his racism and incompetence, two innocent kids went to jail for years, one of whom died after being given AIDS from being raped, the mom and sister were denied justice for years, and several other girls were raped, all because of him. That asshole doesent deserve to just fuck off to Florida for retirement without a care in the world. 

So this guy was in the deep stages of dementia, and no one noticed until now?! Even by this shows standards, thats pushing it a bit. 

[The Wild Sow]

On 11/2/2019 at 2:13 PM, MamaMax said:

You know what I would LOVE to see? Instead of "our heroes" coming across a wrongly convicted person who was the victim of a cartoonishly racist, ignoranct cop...how about they come across a case that Benson and Stabler investigated? That now appears to have been wrongfully convicted? And Carisi et al have to push against St. Olivia?

They did, in earlier seasons.  Eric Plummer (Wrath, Season 3) was Benson's screwup.  He later committed suicide by cop at Benson's hands.

Victor Tate (Unstable, Season 11) was Stabler's -- the guy who's STILL serving his (wrongful!) sentence because the real bad guy committed suicide (or was tossed out a window by Wentworth Miller?) before he could testify and exonerate Victor.  And there seemed to be no possible way to get him released.  Early parole would have required Victor admitting to the crime, and as for commuting his sentence, well, I think ADA Sonya asked everyone, "Do you know the governor?"

But wait....Sonya surely knows other DA's.  She may even know Jack McCoy himself, and if she doesn't, other DA's do.  And Jack McCoy knows the governor!  And if he doesn't, he at least knows the mayor, who DOES know the governor.

Getting the attention of the governor, to fix this clear miscarriage of justice, just wouldn't be THAT difficult.  But Stabler, et al, just gave up and let Victor rot in prison.  That episode still pisses me right the hell off.

[wknt3]

7 hours ago, dttruman said:

I had forgotten that episode. Did Benson offer her apologies to him? I have a strong feeling, that it was probably someone else's fault, but Benson takes it upon herself to get him off.

I seem to remember Stabler going through the same thing in another episode. But what stood out the most (to me), was that at the end Stabler stood face to face with the guy and offered his most sincerest apologies. A real emotional moment for Stabler.

Not that I can recall, but to be fair there was a lot going on so it wasn't necessarily a conscious choice. This was in Season 13 so we weren't in full St. Benson mode yet. She was shown as having made a mistake, but clearly not being negligent or the only one at fault. And yes she was shown as crusading to get the conviction reversed and arrest the correct perp with help and support from the rest of the squad and others. IIRC it was a pretty good episode, memorable for giving us Fin's "rope guy" as well as finally resolving the deathly dull subplot where they had somehow made Harry Connick Jr(!). and Andre Braugher (!!!) completely boring and devoid of any charisma while competing for Liv's affections.

[jabRI]

Does anyone remember where the bad blood with Simon came from? The few episodes I remember of him they were OK with each other.  She made it seem like he was after something, a favor/money? I don't remember him being an addict, so I think I missed a season or so.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, jabRI said:

Does anyone remember where the bad blood with Simon came from? The few episodes I remember of him they were OK with each other.  She made it seem like he was after something, a favor/money? I don't remember him being an addict, so I think I missed a season or so.

I just vaguely remember him being set up on a false rape charge and Benson cleared him of that, and then when he ask Benson to help him with some adoption (I think) with his girl friend or wife.

[jabRI]

I remember that too, and at one point he and his wife/girlfriend were going to lose their kids and she reached out to Andre Braugher's character.   But I don't  remember him 'disappointing' her somehow, unless he slipped into drugs and it was mentioned as an aside.   It was just very throw away, with no context provided. Sloppy writing

[Zoe]

2 hours ago, jabRI said:

Does anyone remember where the bad blood with Simon came from? The few episodes I remember of him they were OK with each other.  She made it seem like he was after something, a favor/money? I don't remember him being an addict, so I think I missed a season or so.

36 minutes ago, jabRI said:

I remember that too, and at one point he and his wife/girlfriend were going to lose their kids and she reached out to Andre Braugher's character.   But I don't  remember him 'disappointing' her somehow, unless he slipped into drugs and it was mentioned as an aside.   It was just very throw away, with no context provided. Sloppy writing

Simon was forced to leave his family because they kidnapped the kids out of CPS custody, and his separation was a condition of the kids returning to the mother. And because of his antics, Andre Braugher couldn't use them in the civil rights case anymore.

[spunky]

It's sad that a man lost 16 years of his life due to a crooked DA and and racist cop. Unfortunately the precincts out in Queens are known to be racist. Lupe was the most believable victim on this show in the last few seasons. I'm happy she connected with Kat over Olivia or Amanda. Carisi is turning out to be a good ADA. My only issue is they still haven't given him a courtroom scene. I'm sure he would be more convincing than the wet blanket that was Peter Stone. I could've done without the whole Olivia family drama thing.

[incandescent]

When the judge said, "Bailiffs, take off those chains," I maybe perhaps definitely teared up a little.

[agentp]

On 11/3/2019 at 3:31 AM, dttruman said:

If they do, I'll wager it will be Stabler's fault or mistake. Remember when Benson was having a conversation with somebody (can't remember who), but she threw Stabler and his reputation under the bus. If they bring up past mistakes about the squad it will probably be Stabler's doing.

I think that “somebody” was Amaro (ss16 finale).

God, I still wanna chop WL and JM’s heads off over that conversation.

[spunky]

20 hours ago, meatball77 said:

As someone who lives in the NYC metro that's actually pretty common for parents of kids Noah's age (he's like 8-10 now?) and even younger.  I'm always amazed when I see four or five year olds half a block ahead of their parents in Manhattan.  As long as they're not young enough that they're going to bolt kids don't need to be always watched in the city.
Although Noah has been kidnapped, you would think she would be a bit paranoid because of that.

It drives me insane when I see little kids a full half a block away from their parents here in NYC. I just want to yell “Hold your child’s hand!” As a cop Olivia should know better especially being the kidnap magnet that she is.

[SarahPrtr]

23 hours ago, incandescent said:

When the judge said, "Bailiffs, take off those chains," I maybe perhaps definitely teared up a little.

Same.  Especially when, even after the chains had been taken off, he was still walking like he was still wearing them.  Reminded me of what they said in Shawshank Redemption, about being 'institutionalised' and whenever Red asked his boss for a bathroom break after he got out, and the boss tells him that he doesn't have to keep asking and Red says "Forty years I've been asking permission to piss."

[Kel Varnsen]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Interesting episode, although I didn't really get why no one had any interest in outing that the Queen's DA had dementia. You would think there would be some political rival or up and coming ada who would want his job, or like Fin or something leaking it to the press in the interest of justice.

Quote

Don't get the point of the Simon storyline. Olivia doesn't need more angst, and we viewers definitely don't need to watch more Olivia angst.

I don't get it either, especially how everyone sort of blew it off about how his death wasn't Olivia's fault. I mean it wasn't but you could have been a little less shitty to him when you left the damn message.

On 11/1/2019 at 10:36 PM, howiveaddict said:

Add me to the club that couldn't believe Olivia turned her back on her child, out i

I don't know, that kid is what like 8 or 9 not a toddler. Old enough to know and to call his mom if something bad is about to happen. I mean if he had to go to the bathroom would it be expected for Olivia to follow him into the stall?div widget

[Joe Hellandback]

1. Glad to see Benson's brother Simon back but then they just arbitrarily kill him off? Why? Just to give her more angst?

2. Wentworth Miller, yay! Hope he becomes recurring. But what's up with his hair?

3. Come on, let's get the Queens DA removed before news leaks out and hundreds of cases are thrown out BECAUSE HE HAS DEMENTIA!

4. I liked Carisi in this one although he's still acting too much like a cop and not enough like a prosecutor. 

5. Nice to see the doc back. 

6. As The Usual Suspects points out a vocal ID is worthless. 

7. Tragic tale of the falsely convicted pair, especially when you realise why one got AIDS and the other keeps in the closet. 

8. Laying on the "tough project kids" line a little thick.

9. Why does every cop from a past case come across so negatively?

10. Especially when Benson herself has sent innocent people to prison in much the same circumstances. 

11. If I was Finn when the crowd start whining at him I'd yell back "Sorry, the crystal ball wasn't working today" and "Only criminals have warrants". 

12. Surely you don't get death notifications over the phone?

7/10

[Joe Hellandback]

On 11/1/2019 at 4:21 AM, SarahPrtr said:

Well, the whole show used to be an ensemble cast, where they were all equally important, but now it's The Olivia Benson Show.  Not only does she get an obscene amount of money to be on SVU, but she's taking valuable characters away from the screen.  Urgh.

It's interesting when you look at the old posters for the series;

And the current one;

 

[Joe Hellandback]

On 11/4/2019 at 2:10 AM, spunky said:

It's sad that a man lost 16 years of his life due to a crooked DA and and racist cop. Unfortunately the precincts out in Queens are known to be racist. Lupe was the most believable victim on this show in the last few seasons. I'm happy she connected with Kat over Olivia or Amanda. Carisi is turning out to be a good ADA. My only issue is they still haven't given him a courtroom scene. I'm sure he would be more convincing than the wet blanket that was Peter Stone. I could've done without the whole Olivia family drama thing.

Was the ex-cop racist? Was the DA corrupt? I didn't see any evidence of either?

[dttruman]

15 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

On 11/3/2019 at 9:10 PM, spunky said:

It's sad that a man lost 16 years of his life due to a crooked DA and and racist cop. Unfortunately the precincts out in Queens are known to be racist. Lupe was the most believable victim on this show in the last few seasons. I'm happy she connected with Kat over Olivia or Amanda. Carisi is turning out to be a good ADA. My only issue is they still haven't given him a courtroom scene. I'm sure he would be more convincing than the wet blanket that was Peter Stone. I could've done without the whole Olivia family drama thing.

Was the ex-cop racist? Was the DA corrupt? I didn't see any evidence of either?

I think it was more like a case of apathy. IMO, the way they told it, they just wanted to expedite the incident as fast as possible.