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dubbel zout

S05.E07: Episode 7

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Demelza discovers the French are smuggling arms into Cornwall; Ross is determined to take vengeance on Merceron and Hanson for framing Ned; Caroline puts her insecurities aside to support Kitty's battle against Merceron.

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After weeks of being ridiculously confused over hanson and merceron and trying to tell them apart it's been revealed that they're BROTHERS?!?!!  Well played, casting department, well played.

  • Jeffy boy and Cecily did not deserve that. Poor kids. I'm confused as to why cecily seemed unchaperoned by her father and/or his men when leaving on the boat. Wouldn't he want to make certain that no last minute shenanigans to save the poor couple happened? It just seemed weird, especially with the fact that the whole poldark gang was there acting like bodyguards for some reason. 
  • Not here for jealous caroline. Didn't care for her not honoring her husband's doctor-patient confidentiality and blackmailing george
  • Poor horace
  • What ever happened to that hanging threat demelza??? 'Next time' has already happened and you're still doing nothing about tess????? At this point demelza deserves to be messed with with how stupidly she's been handling the entire tess situation.
  • Bye bye kitty. I'll miss you.
  • George wants to bail on the evil bros but they aren't letting him out of their grip. Oof. I'm happy that george doesn't really want to get anymore involved with them. 
  • I spy what could be the return of ghost elizabeth...
  • French Spy time!!! I love the idea of ross using the french against merceron and his crew after wickham (?) didn't believe ross about the french being up to something.

Enjoyed the episode. I honestly don't see how they're gonna squeeze everything that needs to be done into the finale next week (is it just an hour or are we gonna get a 2 hr finale?)

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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I didn't get how the Cecily subplot was resolved. Did the Poldarks spirit her away to Jamaica with Kitty? If neither her father nor no one else is going with her, surely she can do whatever she wants once she disembarks ... unless there's going to be someone waiting for her. That was a puzzlement.

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I don't feel all that sorry for Geoffrey Charles and Cecily, mostly because he's such a dolt. (If there was ever a doubt he was a Poldark...) Yes, he's young, but things happened a lot faster back then, and having lived in the world just a bit, I'd have expected more savvy than he showed. And I know Demelza was just trying to be supportive, but telling someone who's lost his first love that he'll find someone he'll love more wasn't the most tactful way of going about that. 

9 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

After weeks of being ridiculously confused over hanson and merceron and trying to tell them apart it's been revealed that they're BROTHERS?!?!!  Well played, casting department, well played.

Yeah, that was a nice reveal. I loved Ross's reaction with Wickham about all of that. "Uh, maybe you could have told me some of this stuff before I went and got a friend hanged?"

Does George have any opinion that's his own aside from hating Poldarks? And even that is fed by Uncle Cary Warleggan. I was glad George showed some alarm that Ross had been thrown down a mine shaft.

I wonder if all the plots will be tied up next week. There's a lot going on.

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I was confused about Geoffrey Charles and Cecily.  Why didn't he just go with her to Jamaica, or was it that she didn't want him with her?  

I think Caroline has put herself in danger, threatening George like that.  She was already spooked by that guy when she was on her horse.

I'd like to see Dwight and Geoffrey Charles on the next ship to Jamaica. 😏 

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The entire Cecily plot has been so stupid. Viv on The Guardian said something about the entire thing being them escaping to get married and then never escaping or getting married. It got tedious quick. 

She has never been chaperoned as would be historically accurate, but the idea that she would be agreeing to submit to her father's wishes but would still be able to leisurely loiter around the dock with Geoffrey Charles and his family without any chaperone appointed by her family is one of the more egregiously laughable anachronisms/plot holes in the history of the show. 

Like, this was my reaction to that scene:

I will say that the actor who plays Geoffrey Charles has grown on me--I thought he looked like a complete little twerp at the beginning of the season. But I think he's actually one of the better actors on the show. His heartbreak over losing Cecily was all over his face. That being said, I agree with @dubbel zout that he's got the trademark Poldark stupidity.

I did laugh pretty hard--in a good way--at the reveal about the half-brothers. That was well-played. As was George's confusion about why he was being blackmailed about a local landowner's insanity.  😄 

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4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

My listing says 90 minutes (9:00 - 10:30).

My listing (Comcast) still says just an hour. I hope you are right; there's a lot of ground to cover.

Edited by Sew Sumi · Reason: Identifying the carrier
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20 hours ago, Nidratime said:

I didn't get how the Cecily subplot was resolved. Did the Poldarks spirit her away to Jamaica with Kitty? If neither her father nor no one else is going with her, surely she can do whatever she wants once she disembarks ... unless there's going to be someone waiting for her. That was a puzzlement.

I think she legit realized that she didn’t want to marry. She was dubious about marriage to begin with and repeatedly said it would limit her too much. I think she truly loved/infatuated with GC, but realized it wasn’t her path. 
 

I think she’s traveling to the New World to be free and be independent.  

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Sometimes I have trouble understanding the accents and/or the sound is muffled, but I could have sworn I heard Cecily say she was with child?

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10 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Sometimes I have trouble understanding the accents and/or the sound is muffled, but I could have sworn I heard Cecily say she was with child?

Yes, she told Ned in his cell before he died. 
 

ETA never mind, thinking of wrong character

Edited by MJS

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That dunce Sam better not go & marry that awful Tess.  Sheesh, does she ever not scowl?  Ever?  And poor Rosina.  That girl can't get a break & she's so cute.  Sam, you really are a dumb-dumb to fall for Tess's obvious act.

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9 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

That's Kitty. Cecily was GC's love interest. They did not go that far in their relationship.

Right, read too fast. 
 

I don’t think she’s with child- they explicitly said they wouldn’t have sex until they were married so I think it was just something GC and she said to stop the marriage. 

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10 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Sometimes I have trouble understanding the accents and/or the sound is muffled, but I could have sworn I heard Cecily say she was with child?

Yes she did.  I thought Geoffrey Charles said he wouldn't have sex with her until they were married?  (When they tried to elope a few epis back?)  Maybe that's why dad is ok with shipping his unmarried pregnant daughter across the ocean.  Otherwise how did she escape from her locked room and chaperones? It seemed to me that telling Geoff she didn't want to get married was to protect him from further revenge from her father.  So is she going to live with Kitty?  It's all very confusing.

I'm confused about the French too.  They are hiding supplies and guns.  Does this have anything to do with Tess and her friends stealing ore?  Or was that just a lucky coincidence that the French were also using the caves on the same shore?  Ross isn't really so disillusioned with the British govt that he'd turn treasonous, right?  It's pretty risky to pretend but at least he'll have some info for the spy master.

Sam is an idiot.

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34 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

I thought Cecily said she is still a child and so is Geoffrey Charles. I could be wrong though.

Oooooh. Maybe that’s it.  That sounds more likely. 

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So why was Caroline giving Kitty a big ole stinkeye every time Kitty & Dwight were talking?  Was she supposed to be jealous?  That was really silly.  Seriously, is there anyone more self-righteous than Dwight?  Caroline’s whining about Dwight only thinking of her as a simple-minded heiress kinda came out of nowhere, didn’t it?  She’s never said this before.

Uh, was that French guy distractingly beautiful or what?  His storyline is dopey as hell & has one more ep to get wrapped up, but thanks for the nice eye candy, producers!

Jeez, I can’t drink & watch this show cuz those brothers (or half-brothers or whatever) make me think I’m seeing double — 2 middle-aged hefty white guys with badly dyed hair is 2 too many.

Can someone get Ross a comb?  Why is his hair (or full wig) always such a mess?  And why couldn’t someone wipe the blood off GC?  He looked like he just came off a slasher movie.  It was a bit too over-dramatic for me.  Someone needs to tell the actor playing GC that bugging out your eyes is not acting.

Edited by ScoobieDoobs
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1 hour ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Caroline’s whining about Dwight only thinking of her as a simple-minded heiress kinda came out of nowhere, didn’t it?  She’s never said this before.

I hated all of that. Dwight knows Caroline has some depth, though he does lovingly tease her about it. However, her whining and the jealousy nonsense was pure plot-point writing to give her something to do. Ugh.

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6 hours ago, Haleth said:

It seemed to me that telling Geoff she didn't want to get married was to protect him from further revenge from her father. 

That's what I thought. She was told they would kill Geoffrey if she had anything more to do with him, so I thought most of what Cecily said to him was to ensure that he not try to follow her.  On the other hand, there was a ring of truth to what she said that will serve her well in the future.  I think she'll have a grand time as an independent, wealthy young woman in New York.

2 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Uh, was that French guy distractingly beautiful or what?

I know I was ready to turn traitor.

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17 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Sometimes I have trouble understanding the accents and/or the sound is muffled, but I could have sworn I heard Cecily say she was with child?

I heard it too.  How will she & Daddy deal with a bastard child?

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I thought Cecily was being sent back to Honduras so maybe it’s like a cruise ship with multiple stops - Jamaica, Honduras, perhaps St. Thomas?  And yes, extremely odd that she’s there with no family guards or maid.  Wrapping up this series means taking tons of shortcuts and unsupported plot twists, apparently.

 I am totally confused about what’s going on in the abandoned mine or how the look alike half brother suddenly runs all of London. Not that I even understand where he came from...

Forgot to say that I also heard Cecily say that she and GC were children, not that she was having a child.

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20 minutes ago, CatWarmer said:

IForgot to say that I also heard Cecily say that she and GC were children, not that she was having a child.

That's what I heard too. 

As others have said, I also think Cecily brushed off Geoffrey Charles because her less-than-dear daddy threatened to have GC killed if they stayed together.  She gave him up so he could stay alive.  I also agree with those who said that it was not believable that no one would be guarding Cecily closely when she boarded the boat.

The best part of the show for me was George questioning why they should protect a local lunatic only to find out they were talking about him.  We needed a little humor in another dark and dismal episode, and good old nasty George provided it.

I'll be ready to see the end of the show. I don't care about what's going on with the French, the smuggling and the caves.  I'm not even liking the characters that much anymore. It's just another day in Poldark land when someone is out to get the Poldarks and everything is life or death, and it's become old to me.

I'm hoping next week ties up everything and in a good way.

Edited by Possum
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I always laugh when Demelza is out in wind with her hair down.  She is a fierce, independent woman as proved by wearing her hair down when all of the other women wear it back...  However, I would not want to be combing/brushing that hair after wearing it down all of the time.  But, dagnabit, she's untamed and not like the other women!

I'm having such a hard time following all of the various plots and half-plots.  So, I guess Ross' big stance on abolition is forgotten now that Ned is dead and Kitty is gone.  Sigh.  Instead, he will single handedly save the British Empire!  

I am glad that the characters that were recently introduced are, for the most part, gone.  Now, let's get rid of Tess and the dark haired brothers (but the falcon can stay).  Like an above poster, I'm glad the end is in sight for this series.  I loved the earlier seasons but now find it a bit of a confusing bore to watch it now (but I'm in until the end!).

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I was having probs understanding some of what Cecily & Caroline were saying.  I don’t think it was about accents.  Both actresses had a tendency to mumble their lines.  The director shoulda noticed this.

Jeez, why is it only Demelza’s brothers say “thee” so much?  Sounds stilted to me.  And because neither of ‘em are particularly good actors, it sounds even more annoying.

That awful Tess better get some kinda comeuppance next ep.  If that dopey Sam marries that witch, I’m gonna throw a shoe at my TV!

So no more women for Georgie? Um, OK.  He’s only into ghosts now?  Is there a name for that?  Nutso?  Guess he & cranky uncle don’t have to worry about Caroline going public . . .

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3 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Uh, was that French guy distractingly beautiful or what?  His storyline is dopey as hell & has one more ep to get wrapped up, but thanks for the nice eye candy, producers!

He was. I barely paid attention to what was being said because he was very nice to look at. Now I got to go to imdb and see who plays him. I did not catch his character's name though.

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51 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Jeez, why is it only Demelza’s brothers say “thee” so much?  Sounds stilted to me.  And because neither of ‘em are particularly good actors, it sounds even more annoying.

I think it's a dissenter/ talk like the King James Bible/ anti-Church of England/Quaker-type thing.  I agree they're awful actors but Sam has grown on me and I'd like to see him with a nice woman as we wrap things up.  

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12 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

No.  I watched with subtitles and she says "I am a child.  You are a child."  

Maybe the subtitlers got it wrong?

I feel pretty certain I heard what I heard but, hopefully, we'll get resolution in the final episode. 

Edited by Ohwell

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I heard "I am a child. You are a child" and I didn't have CC on. If Cecily were pregnant, Geoffrey Charles would probably go with her regardless of the consequences. He's that stupid.

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On 11/12/2019 at 3:42 PM, ScoobieDoobs said:

So no more women for Georgie? Um, OK.  He’s only into ghosts now?  Is there a name for that? 

I feel like I read something about that kind of fetish on the Daily Mail, and/or it was a plot for My Strange Addiction on TLC..

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On 11/12/2019 at 7:17 PM, Magnumfangirl said:

No.  I watched with subtitles and she says "I am a child.  You are a child."  

Ditto this. GC and Cecily never had sex. She's a virgin, as far as we know. She says they are both children and should move on with life.

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I didn't find "Cecily on the dock without a chaperone" confusing. Her father wrote her off. He said, "You have little value to me now." Remember, he still thinks she slept with GC - and not only was Cecily alone with him before the wedding, but for multiple days with the Poldarks. He has no reason to believe she's a virgin, and for all he knows, she has a word-of-mouth reputation in London now too.

His only revenge is that he will keep them apart - he promises her that if they stay together, he will kill GC. That's what he believes will "get back" at her, to separate them. Otherwise, I don't think he cares what she does anymore. Hence: no chaperone. 

But yes - for the first few episodes this season, Cecily was very practical, and even at one point, told GC that she didn't want to get married. I think she fell for him, and saw GC as a way to escape marriage to George. But otherwise, she's perfectly happy being independent. I actually liked the ending to this story. I just wish they would have taken a scene or two to establish Cecily and Kitty as friends so we could feel they were heading out there together. 

THANK GOD HORACE IS OK. One more episode. Horace and Garrick both better make it to the end! I don't know how old these dogs are, and I don't care.

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30 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

I didn't find "Cecily on the dock without a chaperone" confusing. Her father wrote her off. He said, "You have little value to me now." Remember, he still thinks she slept with GC - and not only was Cecily alone with him before the wedding, but for multiple days with the Poldarks. He has no reason to believe she's a virgin, and for all he knows, she has a word-of-mouth reputation in London now too.

His only revenge is that he will keep them apart - he promises her that if they stay together, he will kill GC. That's what he believes will "get back" at her, to separate them. Otherwise, I don't think he cares what she does anymore. Hence: no chaperone. 

But yes - for the first few episodes this season, Cecily was very practical, and even at one point, told GC that she didn't want to get married. I think she fell for him, and saw GC as a way to escape marriage to George. But otherwise, she's perfectly happy being independent. I actually liked the ending to this story. I just wish they would have taken a scene or two to establish Cecily and Kitty as friends so we could feel they were heading out there together. 

THANK GOD HORACE IS OK. One more episode. Horace and Garrick both better make it to the end! I don't know how old these dogs are, and I don't care.

Then why were the Poldark crew still keeping an eye out for his goons if Cecily's dad wrote her off completely? I got the impression he had no use for her. But she was still under his control. Even if she wasn't being properly chaperoned, why didn't he have his goons there to keep her away from the Poldarks? None of it makes sense. 

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1 hour ago, Zella said:

Then why were the Poldark crew still keeping an eye out for his goons if Cecily's dad wrote her off completely? I got the impression he had no use for her. But she was still under his control. Even if she wasn't being properly chaperoned, why didn't he have his goons there to keep her away from the Poldarks? None of it makes sense. 

I think the Poldark crew was mainly there to make sure Kitty got off safely.  They implied that they felt she was still in danger (and rightly so since Caroline's blackmail attempt worked on George and but on the brothers). 

Cecily agreed to leave.  She agreed to be separated from Geoffrey Charles to save his life.  She said that she was going to Honduras and Kitty said she was going to Jamaica.  So I think they Poldark's were just making sure that everyone left safely.  Just in case. 

Edited by JenMcSnark

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6 minutes ago, JenMcSnark said:

I think the Poldark crew was mainly there to make sure Kitty got off safely.  They implied that they felt she was still in danger (and rightly so since Caroline's blackmail attempt worked on George and but on the brothers). 

Cecily agreed to leave.  She agreed to be separated from Geoffrey Charles to save his life.  She said that she was going to Honduras and Kitty said she was going to Jamaica.  So I think they Poldark's were just making sure that everyone left safely.  Just in case. 

Yes, I get all that, but why would her father allow that if the deal was she wouldn't see Geoffrey Charles again? How does he ensure she follows through on her promise?

Also, just from a historical standpoint, a wealthy young Englishwoman isn't going to be carted off to the Caribbean in the early 1800s and turned loose to live her life however she sees fit. That just was not done. It would be a terrible scandal. Even her father who has basically all but disowned her would find it far less scandalous to send her there with what society expects--a chaperone, some income supporting her, a place to live, and the understanding she was never coming back to England or getting anything else she wanted--rather than just turning her loose to fend for herself. 

Edited by Zella
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8 hours ago, Zella said:

Also, just from a historical standpoint, a wealthy young Englishwoman isn't going to be carted off to the Caribbean in the early 1800s and turned loose to live her life however she sees fit. That just was not done. It would be a terrible scandal. Even her father who has basically all but disowned her would find it far less scandalous to send her there with what society expects--a chaperone, some income supporting her, a place to live, and the understanding she was never coming back to England or getting anything else she wanted--rather than just turning her loose to fend for herself. 

And even more, pay off someone to marry her just in case she was pregnant a la Lydia Bennett.  

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12 hours ago, Zella said:

Also, just from a historical standpoint, a wealthy young Englishwoman isn't going to be carted off to the Caribbean in the early 1800s and turned loose to live her life however she sees fit. That just was not done. It would be a terrible scandal. Even her father who has basically all but disowned her would find it far less scandalous to send her there with what society expects--a chaperone, some income supporting her, a place to live, and the understanding she was never coming back to England or getting anything else she wanted--rather than just turning her loose to fend for herself. 

Also, even though her father all but disowned her, I would think he'd still want her to be safe wherever she is.  He might be disappointed in her, but he still loves her.  

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Finally getting around to watching this.

So ... after the previous episode's big dramatic ending of seeing Ross chucked down a well, the mustache twirling reveal that mwah ha ha ha, we've cleverly taken care of him once and for all, we learn that they tossed him in Wheal Leisure?  The same Wheal Leisure that's like five feet from Nampara and conveniently has a nice easy access exit right over there?  Merceron's people are really really terrible at this.  True to form, though, Ross immediately lies to Demelza about what's happened, she immediately realizes he's full of it, and they more or less agree to do whatever foolhardy thing they were primed to do anyway.

I love how everyone hotfooted it off to London, stirred up trouble there, and then all immediately hightailed it back to Corwall en masse for reasons.  That was like a 10-day round trip by carriage.  About the only entertaining thing about it was George growing increasingly weary of the whole lot of them, all but rolling his eyes over the increasingly distasteful entanglement  with the two interchangeable brothers who never bothered to mention until seven episodes in that they are in fact half brothers and so oh, you could never tell us apart up until now?  Well, here's why.  It was a nice unexpected touch that George didn't take any great pleasure in the news that they were trying to off Ross and his increasingly ridiculous hair. 

I haven't been a fan of Caroline suddenly being insecure this season or continually playing to her early seasons reputation as a frivolous heiress.  It feels incredibly contrived, like the writers couldn't think of anything else to give her to do.  Her argument with Dwight where he was admonishing her to think of her reputation rather than get mixed up in the very same thing he's neck deep in didn't make any sense whatsoever.  

It's really too bad Cecily couldn't see the writing on the wall and dump Geoffrey Charles before her daddy had the hell beaten out of him, and it looked like he was wondering that too near the end.  Kitty also took a good look around and concluded that these people are way too over the top to deal with anymore, so bon voyage.  

Why is Ross suddenly wanting to play likely double agent to get mixed up in the Napoleanic Wars one episode from the end?  Who paced this season?  I'm mostly just amused that this episode started with him making up a story about being attacked by imaginary Frenchmen and then whoops, there they were anytime anyone turned around.

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I just binge-watched five episodes and . . . I think I might be done.  I'm exhausted by all the double-dealing and  implausible escapes and the plethora of TOTALLY ONE-NOTE BAD GUYS.  Seriously, how many villains can one story support? 

I'm just exhausted from hating so many characters but the last straw was the impertinent house maid who graduated to counterfeiter and who is now -- having been shut down and threatened by Demelza -- going to get her revenge by going after Demelza's bible-thumping brother.  Oh FFS.  

And now Ross has to go undercover as a revolutionary but NOT tell Demelza and Dr. Enys about it and I'm sure THAT's going to turn out well.

Don't even get me started about the stupid goodbye scene at the dock where Cecily (who had a house-maid/guard in her locked bedroom for the sole purpose of preventing her from looking out the window) is suddenly, inexplicably completely unchaperoned and able to have an intimate good-bye scene, complete with passionate kiss, with Geoffrey-Charles.

Nothing makes any sense on this show.

Edited by WatchrTina
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