S02.E06: The Fighter

[formerlyfreedom]

The God Account sends Miles the name of Elena, a social worker who began training in mixed martial arts to help heal the emotional wounds of a traumatic experience. Arthur is torn between a professional opportunity and promises he made to his fiancé, Trish, and Rakesh attempts to track down the artist behind the mysterious painting that Miles and Cara found in Paris.

Airing Sunday, November 3, 2019.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?

[FormerMod-a1]

I still don't understand Trish.  The store was her dream.  Selling it was a big sacrifice.  Why did she sell it?  It makes no sense.  I still don't understand why she thinks being together means neither one of them should work.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The larger issue with Arthur is he demonstrated he does not respect Trish as a co-equal partner.  On the hugest of issues, he chose lies of omission.  There's no overcoming that.  There is no compromise.  Trish can swallow and try to accept she is second-best to Arthur's ambition.  And yes, it is ambition, not service to mankind.  He punted that particular ethos into the East River when he quit.

This Diocese is a joke.  They just lost a Bishop to unsettled family affairs, largely due to their man's pride getting in the way of living a life of integrity and transparency.  Helloooooo, Arthur!  Did Arthur fail to communicate to them the very real promise he made to his fiancee?  Is he still keeping it from them?  Perfect Bishop material, that one.  But, something like this is absolutely something the Diocese should be digging into as a matter of course.  Arthur is a relatively new widower, quit his life's calling, and he just sold his home and got engaged.  In a very few months.  They see no red flags?!

After all this, the man still thinks this is about "balance?"  It's a very good thing he took off his collar.

It's nice to have Ray back with some realistic gifts and talent he can provide. 

The Grenelle arc seems to be promising.  If Miles needs my addy to return my lost Lotto-winning ticket, let me know! 

[Trini]

Yeah, the Arthur and Trish arcs have been messy. I didn't like it when they had him quit the ministry last season, but it seemed like they had plans to do more or different things with Arthur; but apparently the plan was silly DRAMA.

And now Arthur and Trish are breaking up when we've seen little of them as a couple. I hope they make up soon. When do they plan on marrying them?

It was nice to see Ali out of the bar for a little bit. And nice to see Ray again.

My attention was divided at some parts of this week's 'case', but I'm glad that Elena(?) didn't meet her attacker. I was cringing so hard at the thought of everyone pushing her into doing it. I'm glad that wasn't the real issue that needed to be resolved.

[Yeah No]

I don't agree with Arthur keeping the truth about the Bishop position from Trish for so long, but given her pushing/guilting him into giving everything up for her, I don't blame him that much.  I said last week that I thought Arthur needed to grow a pair when dealing with her, and this is why - because if he isn't open with her it leads to shoving issues under the rug and having them blow up like this into relationship-threatening confrontations.  I do hope they eventually work it out.  I don't understand why Trish can't try to trust Arthur on wanting to find more of a balance between his work and relationship.  He seems sincere about it and why wouldn't she want him to be happy?  Heck, I'd love it if my husband wanted to retire from his busy job that takes him away from me for long hours, often every day of the week, but I wouldn't want to stand between him and what makes him happy.  Plus we work out how to have time for ourselves together.  If when he took the position Arthur showed signs of not working with her on this then that would be the issue for them to work on, but don't stand in the way of his happiness.  That's just not right.  And yes, it's not lost on me that making Trish take this hard stance was just to create more soap opera style drama for the show. 

That said, the God Account problem of the week is becoming a little formulaic and predictable by now, although it was nice to see Ray.  I hope they can find ways not to make the friend suggestions seem so same-old-same-old.  So far this season these plots have been a little less interesting to me than last.  It's no wonder Cara's story didn't even make the leaderboard this week, lol.

I've decided that Cara's hair this season is probably a wig and not extensions because it has looked exactly the same every week so far.  The way the hair looks at the part line never changes.  It's too bad they won't let her wear her real hair because I think it would look better even if it was shorter.  She's a beautiful girl and I don't think this hair is suiting her as much as her own would.

I'm glad that the show hasn't completely abandoned trying to find out who is behind the God Account, such as in the artwork with the message in it.  It looked for a while like they were giving up on that angle.  Hopefully they aren't just teasing us and will continue to revisit this issue as the season progresses.  

Also, Trish's "farm" - I'm a little confused about that.  Who runs it for her or is it just a non-working farm?  Maybe if she goes up there we'll get to see what it's all about.

[MissLucas]

Ha! I knew Trish had a farm, I was starting to wonder if my stupid brain had made that up!

Ahem, so how many privacy laws were violated by Team God & Associates in this episode alone? I find the nonchalance with which they proceed to snoop into medical records and other data a bit disconcerting. And then they swoop into someone's life without even having a good cover story just hoping the person would drop their justified anger because they're on a mission from God. It's nice that it always works out but I wish for once it wouldn't - just to break the formula and add a touch of realism.

Although I admit that the writing for Trish has not been good this season I was with her this episode. No matter what plans you have made for the future (or haven't) you talk to your partner before accepting a new job, especially one with so many obligations. Also: I'm Catholic but I guess being a bishop's wife would also bring along lots of informal obligations for her? That was completely ignored by Arthur and the writers. The way Arthur behaved and talked this episode makes it clear that the job is more important to him than Trish. He never sounded as if he even considered both to be of equal importance - there was no conflict for him beyond trying to talk Trish into acceptance. That's a massive red flag.

Still not interested in Cara's quest to make the leader board - how is that decided btw? Are her articles on-line and the ranking is based on clicks? And yes, her articles are formulaic because the writing for the show has become a bit formulaic - how meta 😉

On to the good: the fake-out with Elena's boyfriend - it helped that they cast Josh Segarra for the part since my mind went immediately to his character on Arrow who was an abusive a**; seeing Ray again; the call-back to Sarah (the parking officer) and the beautiful dress Ali wore for her quasi-session with Miles and Cara.

Edited November 4, 2019 by MissLucas

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

The way Arthur behaved and talked this episode makes it clear that the job is more important to him than Trish. He never sounded as if he even considered both to be of equal importance - there was no conflict for him beyond trying to talk Trish into acceptance. That's a massive red flag.

I would be so with you on this if not for the fact that Trish didn't have any conflict trying to talk and manipulate him into giving up his entire career for her.  I thought that was a massive red flag to begin with.  She knew how much his vocation meant to him when she got involved with him but decided to try to change him instead.  It was an either/or thing with her while Arthur always said he wanted to be able to find a way to do both.  He never took the stance that his career came first or that it was either her or his career.  She was the one that looked at it that way.  Arthur's only mistake was in giving into her manipulation and trying so hard to please her that he didn't stick to his guns about what he needed.  He STILL doesn't see taking the position as an either/or situation, while to her he either gives up the position or her.  To me that is much worse.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Yeah No

[Empress1]

Ray is my favorite case of the week. It was great to see him.

I think Trish and Arthur are incompatible. They want different things. They clearly have different ideas for what their retired life means - even if Arthur weren't the bishop, he's not the life of leisure type.

[FormerMod-a1]

I just want to understand why Trish thought they both needed to be retired in order to be together and get married.  She called selling the store a  big sacrifice.  Why would she do that?  It makes no sense.  Does she think being with the person you love means literally being together 100% of the time? 

[Empress1]

Just now, aquarian1 said:

I just want to understand why Trish thought they both needed to be retired in order to be together and get married.  She called selling the store a  big sacrifice.  Why would she do that?  It makes no sense.  Does she think being with the person you love means literally being together 100% of the time? 

Also did Arthur ask her to sell the store?

[FormerMod-a1]

^ Right - that too! 

[zoey1996]

9 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The larger issue with Arthur is he demonstrated he does not respect Trish as a co-equal partner.  On the hugest of issues, he chose lies of omission.  There's no overcoming that.  There is no compromise.  Trish can swallow and try to accept she is second-best to Arthur's ambition.  And yes, it is ambition, not service to mankind.  He punted that particular ethos into the East River when he quit.

This Diocese is a joke.  They just lost a Bishop to unsettled family affairs, largely due to their man's pride getting in the way of living a life of integrity and transparency.  Helloooooo, Arthur!  Did Arthur fail to communicate to them the very real promise he made to his fiancee?  Is he still keeping it from them?  Perfect Bishop material, that one.  But, something like this is absolutely something the Diocese should be digging into as a matter of course.  Arthur is a relatively new widower, quit his life's calling, and he just sold his home and got engaged.  In a very few months.  They see no red flags?!

After all this, the man still thinks this is about "balance?"  It's a very good thing he took off his collar.

It's nice to have Ray back with some realistic gifts and talent he can provide. 

The Grenelle arc seems to be promising.  If Miles needs my addy to return my lost Lotto-winning ticket, let me know! 

I agree with much of what you wrote, but Arthur's wife died 17 years ago (Season 1, Episode 11), so he's not a relatively new widower.

I also think he genuinely feels a calling and that he can help people of the diocese as Bishop.  There's some ambition too, but when he lost the Bishop position, it set him back and he questioned whether he still had the calling.  Much conjecture on my part, but it's how I see it.

[Orbert]

I don't think we were given much about what Arthur and Trish were up to for a while.  Mostly off camera, they apparently made plans for their new life together and obviously talked about some things, and apparently missed a few important things, too.  We wondered what happened with the music store, and now we know that she loved it but sold it, but that's all.  So without anything else to go on, all we can see is Trish having given up a lot for no reason we know of other than apparently wanting to be with Arthur literally 24/7.  And since that was the plan, in her mind, she's pissed when Arthur backtracks on some decisions she thought they'd made together.  They're both right and they're both wrong in some ways.  But overall, I just don't think it's been written very well.  All we get is the drama.  Not a lot of feel-good coming from the Dad side of things these days.

I wasn't sure about Austin.  Pretty sure we were meant to not trust him, at least at first, but even by the end I had trouble with his... well, everything.  The tough-guy persona, short sentences, gruff demeanor, how easy it is to think that there's probably something else going on.  He always had Elena's best interests in mind, loved her, and clearly cared about Gabe as well.  We never really saw anything to the contrary; it was all colored by that vaguely menacing vibe.  But some guys are just like that.  Maybe there's a message there about prejudging people.

This week's "scene with more meaning to it than we see at first" (I'm still working on that) was Gabe on the steps of the halfway house.  He wasn't just there to find the guy who attacked his mom; he was thinking about those bullies at school.  The way he steeled himself up, he was ready to do what needed to be done.  Maybe he's not ready yet to face the bullies, but he was not gonna let the guy who put his mom in the hospital off the hook.  I'm not sure what he was going to do, and maybe he didn't know either, so it's best that they caught up to him in time.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Apologies for my brain cramp as to the timing of Arthur's loss of his wife.

I would not want a Trish for a wife for the reasons well outlined by y'all.  But, Arthur knew how she was, understood her demands, and asked her, nonetheless.  

The best advice, imo, for any couple considering marriage, is to not expect their partner to change.  They are who they are.  The "warts" you see will be there for life.  Can you deal with them?  If the good far outweighs the "faults," you are a match.  Marrying with the express hope that some major aspect of the other's character can be managed?  A fool's errand.

A man of the cloth, with Arthur's experience of counseling folks, and many encounters with human nature which has never changed from before Christ, would know this. 

[Yeah No]

18 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I would not want a Trish for a wife for the reasons well outlined by y'all.  But, Arthur knew how she was, understood her demands, and asked her, nonetheless.  

Actually for a while she was not giving him those demands.  He rightly pointed out in this episode that she supported him all through his campaign for bishop.  It wasn't until after that that she started in with the manipulation, and I think pleasing/appeasing her was a big reason, if not THE reason he stepped down form Harlem Episcopal in the first place.

23 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

A man of the cloth, with Arthur's experience of counseling folks, and many encounters with human nature which has never changed from before Christ, would know this. 

That I agree with 100%.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I just want to understand why Trish thought they both needed to be retired in order to be together and get married.  She called selling the store a  big sacrifice.  Why would she do that?  It makes no sense.  Does she think being with the person you love means literally being together 100% of the time? 

Also the way Miles was talking to his dad about it, he was making it seem like it was either marriage to Trish, or Bishop -- but I think both are possible (on this fictional show)?

I like Trish, and I like Trish and Arthur; I don't know why they decided they need all this conflict.

[lh25]

For me, whether or not Trish should have sold the store, whether it's a good idea to plan to be retired together or anything else like that isn't the point.

It's that Arthur took the job without talking to her about it.  There needed to be a "I've been offered this opportunity I didn't see coming.  It's something I've wanted to do for a long time, but I realize you and I made plans and this will change them.  Let's talk about what we want to do".  He's acting like a single man, not one in a serious relationship  

[12catcrazy]

Sigh.  I liked the "case of the week" but don't like the Trish/Arthur drama.  I don't know why they are writing Trish the way they are ... could she be a stand-in for what I think is a mostly female, middle-aged and older viewership who probably have a fantasy of their men giving in to them and allowing themselves to be "changed"?   I'm finding myself totally disliking Trish, who to me is coming off as a spoiled selfish manipulator because it seems everything is her way or the highway.  I agree Ih25's point about Arthur taking the job without talking to her, but I think part of why he did that was because he knew she'd be upset and stamp her foot and demand he say no.  I think he wants to avoid the conflict yet as we all know, that avoidance usually makes things worse in the long run.

I think another thing that bugged me was Miles giving Arthur the speech about finding the 2nd love of his life and he will have to pick her over the job.   Sometimes I think this show is being written by teenage girls or again, this might be to just play to the fantasies of it's audience who probably knows better that the love they talk about in this show is more the stuff of fairytales than real life.  

[Brian Cronin]

Some of the drama is just so fake.

Like Cara being a big hit at her job, then leaving to write a book, then returning to the same job (instead of any number of similar websites out there) to suddenly not be any good anymore? The show wants us to think that she "has" to work with Adam to be a hit again, but why? Why is her stuff that was so popular before not connecting now? They don't explain it because they know it doesn't make any sense.

Arthur LEAVING THE CHURCH and now being named the BISHOP of New York?! What the what? Sure, the Trish stuff is all unrealistic, as well (where either stuff was said that would make Arthur super unreasonable, like him agreeing to have Trish sell her store, or if Trish is just unreasonable in all of her demands), but the main driving conceit just doesn't make any sense. It's like the show can't make up its mind - "I'm running for bishop! I lost. I quit. Oh wait, I'm the bishop anyways!"

Also, they really need to learn how to talk to people. They were coming at Elena HARD when they had just met her. 

[KaveDweller]

16 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I don't agree with Arthur keeping the truth about the Bishop position from Trish for so long, but given her pushing/guilting him into giving everything up for her, I don't blame him that much.  I said last week that I thought Arthur needed to grow a pair when dealing with her, and this is why - because if he isn't open with her it leads to shoving issues under the rug and having them blow up like this into relationship-threatening confrontations.  I do hope they eventually work it out.  I don't understand why Trish can't try to trust Arthur on wanting to find more of a balance between his work and relationship.  He seems sincere about it and why wouldn't she want him to be happy? 

I don't think the issue was that she doesn't trust he can balance, I thought it was that she can't trust him at all when he lied to her about the Bishop offer. And possibly that he accepted the offer before talking to her. 

9 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I just want to understand why Trish thought they both needed to be retired in order to be together and get married.  She called selling the store a  big sacrifice.  Why would she do that?  It makes no sense.  Does she think being with the person you love means literally being together 100% of the time? 

The only way it could make sense is if she and Arthur talked about wanting to do a lot of travelling or leaving the city to spend more time on her farm. Then it makes sense that she would sell the store so she had the same amount of time as Arthur to be going off on trips.

I am wondering about timing of all this though. I thought in the premiere Miles had mentioned a month passing since last season. And it hasn't seemed like a ton of time has passed this season, since they keep referring to things from past episodes as if they just happened. But somehow in all this time, Trish sold her business, she and Arthur both sold their houses, and they bought a new one together that they are already living in?

[tennisgurl]

This drama between Arthur and Trish all just seems so contrived and unnecessary. I dont get why Trish has to sell her shop, why Arthur has to retire, and what that has to do with getting married. Just because they're married, that doesent mean they have to be glued to each other all of the time, they can have their own careers and hobbies and such! The church isnt just Arthur's job, its his calling, his passion in life, and I dont think he would like the kind of quiet retirement that Trish seems to want. He would get bored and want to find something to do, even if it was just a part time volunteer position, no matter how happy he was with Trish. That being said, him taking the position without talking to Trish was a really bad call, especially knowing how she felt about him working again. Thats the kind of thing you tell your partner and ask their opinion about, not just tell them whats up out of nowhere. I just need to have both of their opinions made clear, and their reasons behind them, these two have major communication issues they need to work out before they get married. 

Other than this Trish/Arthur stuff bogging us down, I thought this was a good episode, and a solid Friend of the Week. I thought the abuse fake out was a good way to mess with audience expectations a bit, the actual story was way more interesting than what could be a pretty depressing (especially for this show) abuse story. I was especially happy to see Josh Segarra show up as the boyfriend, he was really great in Arrow and it nice seeing him doing a different kind of role. I also liked that they didnt have her reconcile with the guy who beat her up and that being the solution (as that seemed too easy, even for this show) and she realized instead that her obsession and not taking care of herself was influencing her son and hurting their relationship. I also didnt like the idea of everyone forcing her into meeting the guy who so badly traumatized her, so I was glad they went a different route. This show rarely has real "villains" show up, so it was probably for the best, unless the guy was seriously repentant.

Ray is one of my favorite Friend Requests, so I was thrilled to see him again and them finding ways for him to use his skills to help out! I like that they're bringing back old Friend Requests, and it makes me wonder if they're building up to something, like the key to solving the God Account mystery involves a bunch of people they've helped before.

The God Account Search continues! Glad to see we are making progress, this sounds very promising.

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, lh25 said:

For me, whether or not Trish should have sold the store, whether it's a good idea to plan to be retired together or anything else like that isn't the point.

It's that Arthur took the job without talking to her about it.  There needed to be a "I've been offered this opportunity I didn't see coming.  It's something I've wanted to do for a long time, but I realize you and I made plans and this will change them.  Let's talk about what we want to do".  He's acting like a single man, not one in a serious relationship  

Actually, I think he acted like a married man who knew his wife would give him grief if he did what he wanted to do, and not what SHE wanted him to do.  With Trish there is no compromise so there really is no way to talk to her about it in any constructive manner.  Ideally we'd all talk to our partners about such a big decision but he knew he'd get nowhere with her and would be cut down yet again.  At least this way she wouldn't get the opportunity to try to talk him out of it another time.  Plus he was betting that he could later make her see that it wouldn't be as bad as she was making it out to be.  Which actually still might work.  Or she may convince him to back out of it.  I really see no other choice than either he gets his wish or she gets hers, or they break up.  He tried doing it her way and realized it wasn't working for him, but even if he told her that she was so dead set against him taking the job that he knew he'd get nowhere with her and that talking to her beforehand wouldn't make much difference.  She really left him with no good choice in how to deal with her.

[Trini]

24 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Actually, I think he acted like a married man who knew his wife would give him grief if he did what he wanted to do, and not what SHE wanted him to do.  With Trish there is no compromise so there really is no way to talk to her about it in any constructive manner.  Ideally we'd all talk to our partners about such a big decision but he knew he'd get nowhere with her and would be cut down yet again.  At least this way she wouldn't get the opportunity to try to talk him out of it another time.  Plus he was betting that he could later make her see that it wouldn't be as bad as she was making it out to be.  Which actually still might work.  Or she may convince him to back out of it.  I really see no other choice than either he gets his wish or she gets hers, or they break up.  He tried doing it her way and realized it wasn't working for him, but even if he told her that she was so dead set against him taking the job that he knew he'd get nowhere with her and that talking to her beforehand wouldn't make much difference.  She really left him with no good choice in how to deal with her.

So it's Trish's fault? I respectfully disagree. They could have talked. Plus, I don't think we've even seen enough of Trish and Trish+Arthur to extrapolate all this.

[Yeah No]

On 11/4/2019 at 2:49 PM, 12catcrazy said:

Sigh.  I liked the "case of the week" but don't like the Trish/Arthur drama.  I don't know why they are writing Trish the way they are ... could she be a stand-in for what I think is a mostly female, middle-aged and older viewership who probably have a fantasy of their men giving in to them and allowing themselves to be "changed"?   I'm finding myself totally disliking Trish, who to me is coming off as a spoiled selfish manipulator because it seems everything is her way or the highway.  I agree Ih25's point about Arthur taking the job without talking to her, but I think part of why he did that was because he knew she'd be upset and stamp her foot and demand he say no.  I think he wants to avoid the conflict yet as we all know, that avoidance usually makes things worse in the long run.

I think another thing that bugged me was Miles giving Arthur the speech about finding the 2nd love of his life and he will have to pick her over the job.   Sometimes I think this show is being written by teenage girls or again, this might be to just play to the fantasies of it's audience who probably knows better that the love they talk about in this show is more the stuff of fairytales than real life.  

I agree with everything you said except most middle aged women I know see what Trish is doing as immature behavior that they grew out of at least 20 years ago.  Most of us learn by a certain age that trying to change a man is futile and you have to accept him as he is, and we wince at the thought of anyone trying to do that.  Which actually may be the goal of the writers - To make us see Trish as unrealistic.

I also agree with you about Miles' reaction.  Such black and white situations.   Why does Arthur have to choose between the job and Trish?  That choice was foisted upon him by HER, and might be an unfair ultimatum.  It's very simplistic and might be written by people that while not teenagers themselves, might not be much more emotionally mature than one.  Either that or they're trying to make Miles look like he doesn't get or care where Arthur is coming from with his vocation, which would be understandable if he is an atheist.

This actually brings me to something I was thinking about re: Trish.  I never got the feeling that Trish was totally comfortable being in a relationship with a priest.  I think if you're going to intend to marry one you pretty much have to be in sync with them about their calling and what it demands of them and YOU.  That's just a given.  It would be the same for anyone marrying a doctor, a daredevil stunt person, a soldier, a fireman/woman or a politician.  You have to be OK with what they do and what it might require of you or you really shouldn't marry them in the first place.  You shouldn't move ahead with the relationship thinking you can get them to quit it because you don't want to deal with what their job might require of you.  

 

20 hours ago, Trini said:

So it's Trish's fault? I respectfully disagree. They could have talked. Plus, I don't think we've even seen enough of Trish and Trish+Arthur to extrapolate all this.

The trouble is every time Arthur tries to talk to her and make compromises she refuses to budge.  So yes, that's her fault.  There's no other way to deal with this situation.  Either they compromise and he takes the job but agrees to not over extend himself in it or she gets her way and he backs down, or they break up.  And she's not having anything else but him not taking the job or she breaks up.  Talking about it again with her before he took the job wouldn't have changed anything.  She's STILL not willing to talk to him about it.  It's her way or the highway.  He was just putting off the inevitable in waiting to tell her after he accepted the position.  By that point she had forced his hand one way or the other and he chose the one that was right for him.  In other words, don't issue ultimatums if you aren't prepared for the response not going your way.

 

21 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This drama between Arthur and Trish all just seems so contrived and unnecessary. I dont get why Trish has to sell her shop, why Arthur has to retire, and what that has to do with getting married. Just because they're married, that doesent mean they have to be glued to each other all of the time, they can have their own careers and hobbies and such! The church isnt just Arthur's job, its his calling, his passion in life, and I dont think he would like the kind of quiet retirement that Trish seems to want. He would get bored and want to find something to do, even if it was just a part time volunteer position, no matter how happy he was with Trish. That being said, him taking the position without talking to Trish was a really bad call, especially knowing how she felt about him working again. Thats the kind of thing you tell your partner and ask their opinion about, not just tell them whats up out of nowhere. I just need to have both of their opinions made clear, and their reasons behind them, these two have major communication issues they need to work out before they get married. 

Yeah, but the thing is they've already had that discussion a few times so why would having it another time make any difference when Trish so obviously is not having any of it?  There's no way to deal with someone that's not willing to compromise with you.  Like I said in a previous post, Arthur already tried it her way and it didn't work for him.  And he already talked to her about it when he told her about the trial position working for the bishop.  She already made it clear that she didn't want him working AT ALL and wasn't willing to make any compromises on that.  So he might as well do what he really wants to do rather than let her stand in the way of his overall happiness.  Talking to her again wouldn't get him anywhere anyway.

To me that's a red flag in a relationship - when someone isn't on board with supporting you in your needs and ambitions in life.  And that's the REAL problem here, not who talked to who about it when.  The real problem is that Trish isn't on board with Arthur's vocation and never really seemed invested in it herself.  But she never told him that.  She actually went along with it for a while and he accepted that face value.  Her problem with it is only coming out now.  Actually both of them are at fault for not seeing that they had different goals that weren't going to be compatible in the long run.  I think both of them were guilty of thinking they could change the other person to be more like what they needed in a partner. 

The thing is, though, that when Arthur started seeing Trish she never talked about giving everything up, selling her store and just sitting around the fireplace with him 24/7.  That's the way she started acting only AFTER he had already committed to her.  His goals and vocation were far more open and obvious to anyone looking at him than hers were from the start of their relationship.  He actually ran for bishop and she knew about his goals with that all along.  He didn't hide them from her, and she seemingly went along with it.  Then suddenly she changed.  So I see him as being more blindsided by her than she ever was by him.

I personally think they're portraying Trish as the needy, clingy stereotype of a woman that when in a relationship forms more of a co-dependence on their partner than an independent meeting in the middle of mature adults.  Why she should be compelled to sell her shop tells me she is making her partner her primary vocation in life.  Well, yeah, our partners should be primary in our lives.  But if we have to give up everything else in our lives that doesn't involve our partner in the process, that's enmeshment to an unhealthy degree.

I just think the whole situation is so stupid.  Knowing the incredible perks bishops get in the Episcopal church, like living in big mansions and having a staff of people there to serve you, plus being able to call the shots enough to give yourself plenty of time to pursue your own projects/time/relationships, this entire plot line just feels ridiculous to me and Mr. Yeah No, who know better.  And knowing how motivated Arthur seems to be to please Trish once again makes me think this is another unrealistic plot line.  Any woman I know of Trish's age would see being engaged to a man like Arthur like hitting the relationship lottery, because guys like him are not exactly around every corner at her age, especially guys that would love and find her attractive.  That's just a sad reality.  So her coming off as so unwilling to compromise or remain hopeful that they can eventually work things out in time looks to me to be a little narcissistic and self-sabotaging.  

[Trini]

This is my fluff show, so I'm not going to read so much more into the situation than the writers did.

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

This is my fluff show, so I'm not going to read so much more into the situation than the writers did.

Whatever they were thinking we are all entitled to have an opinion on Trish.  I don't think I'm reading more into the situation than is reasonable as an audience member looking in from the outside.  For weeks I have been far from alone in calling her manipulative and selfish and being unfair to Arthur and his needs, and now all of a sudden he is wrong for being true to himself and rebelling against that when she pretty much gave him no other real choice?  Because of that I think Trish is just as much if not more responsible for the outcome and breakdown of their relationship as Arthur is (remember I kept saying he needed to grow a pair with her and not just give in and do what he wants anyway).  I respect your right to disagree, but me and my 45 years of romantic relationship experience will continue to see it my way.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Yeah No

[lh25]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Actually, I think he acted like a married man who knew his wife would give him grief if he did what he wanted to do, and not what SHE wanted him to do.  With Trish there is no compromise so there really is no way to talk to her about it in any constructive manner.  Ideally we'd all talk to our partners about such a big decision but he knew he'd get nowhere with her and would be cut down yet again. 

I have to disagree.  To me, that's not a marriage really.  If you can't talk about this kind of stuff, you need a different partner.  How do we know there is no compromise with Trish?

[KaveDweller]

17 hours ago, Yeah No said:

He actually ran for bishop and she knew about his goals with that all along.  He didn't hide them from her, and she seemingly went along with it.  Then suddenly she changed.  So I see him as being more blindsided by her than she ever was by him.

I think it is more that the writers started planning season 2 and decided they needed more drama. So they changed both Arthur and Trish and their plan for them.

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, lh25 said:

I have to disagree.  To me, that's not a marriage really.  If you can't talk about this kind of stuff, you need a different partner.  How do we know there is no compromise with Trish?

I said he acted like a married man, not like the ideal married man.  Do I think Arthur could have handled this better?  For sure I do.  But I can understand why he didn't given Trish's behavior.  Unless the writers decide to make her soften to Arthur's career ambitions, as it stands now given all she has shown us so far, there is no compromise with Trish.  I personally think that's obvious given the weeks of pressure she has put on Arthur and the way she reacted both last week and this to any suggestion of him taking either job.  But there might be some hope in that she said she needed time to think about this.  Hopefully she'll have a change of heart and be more willing to accept his choice.  If she lets him talk to her and help her feel better about it, then yes, she'll compromise.

5 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I think it is more that the writers started planning season 2 and decided they needed more drama. So they changed both Arthur and Trish and their plan for them.

Yup, I agree, but shhhh......pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!  😉

[lh25]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I said he acted like a married man, not like the ideal married man.  Do I think Arthur could have handled this better?  For sure I do.  But I can understand why he didn't given Trish's behavior.

Good points.

I realize how much I like this show when I find myself thinking and discussing these things!

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, lh25 said:

Good points.

I realize how much I like this show when I find myself thinking and discussing these things!

Yeah, me too.  In spite of all the carping I do about it I still like this show a lot more than most of what's out there these days.

[Yeah No]

I really liked this review of this episode.  I agree with it 100%.

[andromeda331]

I just really don't understand the drama between Trish and Arthur or why its there. It feels so out of then blue. Why did Trish sell her shop that she says she loved so much. Why is she so insisting that he doesn't work either. Why? She wants them to spend every second together? Go traveling? What does she want? Arthur isn't the type to spend every day hanging out at home not working. She's been with him long enough to figure that out. Arthur keeps saying they'll do that but then keeps back tracking. Its clear he doesn't want to be retired. Why can't he just talk to Trish? Why are they both acting like teens instead adults. Why does it have to be either or for Arthur? Where is all this wanting to be retire and spend every second from Trish coming from? It feels so out of the blue. 

I liked Trish in season one. I loved her owning her show, love of music and them connecting over music. I liked Trish and Arthur together in season one. I really thought Trish would push/help Arthur to try new things and/or get back into doing things he used to love and hasn't done anymore.  

I don't like Cara's work story either. Its really just boring and her career has been all over the place lately. Writing a story, then a book, then not a book, now back at her job, but clashing over the new guy. Why are they wasting time on this?

I did like the story of the week. I liked that they were wrong about Elena's boyfriend. I liked and could see where Elena was coming from. The fighting felt good and learning to defend herself. But it still hiding what happened to her. I'm glad she didn't meet her attacker. I'm always on the fence about that. I did like her son picking up on some of it. It felt real. Even if you think your hiding it well others can notice.  

I loved seeing Ray! I love that we get to see people they've helped in the past and see how their doing.  

[Yeah No]

On 11/16/2019 at 5:28 AM, andromeda331 said:

I just really don't understand the drama between Trish and Arthur or why its there. It feels so out of then blue. Why did Trish sell her shop that she says she loved so much. Why is she so insisting that he doesn't work either. Why? She wants them to spend every second together? Go traveling? What does she want? Arthur isn't the type to spend every day hanging out at home not working. She's been with him long enough to figure that out. Arthur keeps saying they'll do that but then keeps back tracking. Its clear he doesn't want to be retired. Why can't he just talk to Trish? Why are they both acting like teens instead adults. Why does it have to be either or for Arthur? Where is all this wanting to be retire and spend every second from Trish coming from? It feels so out of the blue. 

I know, I agree and I keep thinking maybe she recently found out she's terminally ill and hasn't been able to tell Arthur yet.  Or maybe the writers are setting Arthur up to make him regret that he didn't do all she wanted of him when she gets hit by a car just like his first wife did.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I know, I agree and I keep thinking maybe she recently found out she's terminally ill and hasn't been able to tell Arthur yet.  Or maybe the writers are setting Arthur up to make him regret that he didn't do all she wanted of him when she gets hit by a car just like his first wife did.

Both of those would make so much sense. 

[SnarkySheep]

On 11/4/2019 at 6:22 AM, MissLucas said:

On to the good: the fake-out with Elena's boyfriend - it helped that they cast Josh Segarra for the part since my mind went immediately to his character on Arrow who was an abusive a**; 

He was also Cora's deceptive, murderous boyfriend on the short-lived The Good Cop, as well as Voight's ne'er-do-well son on Chicago PD.

On 11/16/2019 at 5:28 AM, andromeda331 said:

I don't like Cara's work story either. Its really just boring and her career has been all over the place lately. Writing a story, then a book, then not a book, now back at her job, but clashing over the new guy. Why are they wasting time on this?

Agreed. It's like they have absolutely no idea how to write that part of her life.