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Wheel of Time in the Media

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I wouldn't have been totally surprised if Amazon had cancelled it due to the pandemic, and what must be high production costs. The disruptions to filming are always going to put some executives off, and Amazon do have a LOTR show that they're also investing in.

Plus, the Wheel of Time isn't an equivalent to Game of Thrones, no matter how the show might end up being marketed. It's not as accessible due to the density of the lore and the magic system and the prophecies and even due to the narrative structure of the first book. 

The fact that Amazon instead chose to renew it suggests they're very happy with what they've seen so far. Hopefully that's reflected in the publicity campaign for the show before it's released.

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That's a double edged sword. Assuming the show is streamlining the more 'quieter' moments in the books, viewers may be bored to tears. 

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5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

If the show is popular, it could push a ton of book sales.

I think it was Game of Thrones that finally pushed ASOIAF past WoT in book sales, so I do think a successful show would see it take the sales lead back. At least for the first two or three books, but once people realise how much reading is involved, a lot will probably give up.

I also find The Dragon Reborn to be a relatively dull book, as one of the few fans who isn't obsessed with Mat. He takes up a lot of that book, and I just get tired of his irreverent, 'I just want to have fun and no responsibility' personality quite quickly.

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Yeah, when GoT premiered, only four books had been published, with the fifth coming out shortly after the first season ended. So it was, and still is, just a five book commitment. WoT clocking in at nine additional volumes for its main series will put off most people. But, it currently stands at 80 million sales for WoT's 14 books versus 90 million sales for ASOIAF's 5 books, so WoT doesn't have to pick up that many new readers willing to buy all 14 volumes to pass ASOIAF again in total sales. One reader who does that for WoT is worth almost three readers for ASOIAF.

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1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The Wheel of Time - Our Series is Actually Finished! 

 

LOL.  That is my overriding thought.  As a reader of both series I think I will look at this series differently than I do AGOT.  With WOT, the story is complete.  And even if the tv show veers wildly away from the books, the books will -- in my head -- remain original canon. 

But with AGOT, because the show is finished and there are two more books (at least) that have not yet been released and -- for me at the least  -- the tv show's canon usurps the book's canon at least post A Storm of Swords.  And I say this as a person who is a book purist and read the first three books over 20 years ago and have only casually watched the tv series.  I literally have no desire to pick up any additional books, for me the ending has already been written by the tv show.

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1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The Wheel of Time - Our Series is Actually Finished! 

Well, also so incredibly long that even if you planned for 10 seasons you'd still have to cut out 80% of the material from the books. 

Edited by SnarkShark

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2 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

Well, also so incredibly long that even if you planned for 10 seasons you'd still have to cut out 80% of the material from the books. 

Come for the physics based magic! Stay for the tea pouring. With honey. And the stirring. 

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21 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

Well, also so incredibly long that even if you planned for 10 seasons you'd still have to cut out 80% of the material from the books. 

I think 80% is a little high. 70% maybe.

But seriously, the series will need some significant streamlining to be translated to screen. It's technically doable, I just fear that cutting too much might leave viewers a little cold to the characters and confused by the combination of present narrative, past and future, prophecies and foretellings that dominate much of the series.

21 hours ago, DearEvette said:

LOL.  That is my overriding thought.  As a reader of both series I think I will look at this series differently than I do AGOT.  With WOT, the story is complete.  And even if the tv show veers wildly away from the books, the books will -- in my head -- remain original canon. 

But with AGOT, because the show is finished and there are two more books (at least) that have not yet been released and -- for me at the least  -- the tv show's canon usurps the book's canon at least post A Storm of Swords.  And I say this as a person who is a book purist and read the first three books over 20 years ago and have only casually watched the tv series.  I literally have no desire to pick up any additional books, for me the ending has already been written by the tv show.

I care far, far more about this series than I do about ASOIAF, so I'm very nervous about this adaptation. Some of the stuff that's been released is exciting, some of has me wary and some is just really confusing. For example:

Spoiler

Elayne and her brothers not appearing in season one, which must mean no scene of Rand falling into the palace gardens and meeting them. Okay, I love that scene and the scene with him meeting Morgase, but I get why they might want to trim them for time and because it's a narrative strand that won't be picked up again until the next season. But when is Rand going to meet Elayne? In Tear? Their romance already feels incredibly abrupt, how will it be justified if they've only just met and are "canoodling in corners"?

Rafe has talked about changing Rand's harem to more of a polyamory situation, and I have an inkling that he's going to have Elayne and Min as "pillow friends" in the Tower - boarding school lesbian experimentation is something Jordan mentions in passing a few times, including with Moiraine and Siuan, so it's kind of authentic to the books. But then they have to cross the bridge from Min/Elayne to Elayne/Rand without having had Elayne meet Rand at all. 

One idea I've had is that he could meet her at Lord Barthanes party, in Cairhien. That she, Gawyn and Galad are on their way to the tower and stop off to spend a little time their father's family. Have their meeting replace the horny cougar scene. But then it throws off Egwene meeting them in the Tower.

I don't know. Like I say, it's confusing.

 

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I'm kind of a hostile witness when it comes to the Wheel of Time. I did not like the last book at all. Not a knock on Sanderson. I thought his writing was seemless from Jordan. 

There's a lot of problems with these books. 

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But seriously, the series will need some significant streamlining to be translated to screen. It's technically doable, I just fear that cutting too much might leave viewers a little cold to the characters and confused by the combination of present narrative, past and future, prophecies and foretellings that dominate much of the series

After all that, I think this will blow Game of Thrones out of the water. 

I never read the GoT books. I don't care to until the series is done. 

Streamlining is the key here. 

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When it comes to time and content, a lot of book lines are taken up with long travels (before they discover skimming and true 'traveling'), baths, eating, etc. I'm a bit puzzled that there will not be a brief Elayne cameo in season one, and can't see her and Min as lovers of convenience.

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The Wheel Of Time - Motion Title Treatment:

 

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As with everything about this show, people have been picking this apart and discussing whether it's trying to ape Game of Thrones or The Witcher and if it's an improvement or not.

I do like the Flame of Tar Valon and Dragon's Fang hint at the beginning, and the Old Tongue script which apparently says "The People of the Dragon are always welcome here." Stuff like that makes me think this show is a labour of love for those involved.

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Those first few seconds are totally aping GoT's opening, but I get it. It's an expensive show that will need to run for many seasons if it's going to be able to tell the full story, so they're going to do whatever they have to to get people to try the show. Seeing those first few seconds practically inspires a Pavlovian response for GoT fans. This is well-produced and looks great.

They should've written "OUR book series is finished - admittedly the author died first and someone else had to write the remaining books, but still, OUR book series is finished!" in the Old Tongue script.

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I've said the same thing. The series has already been written. It's invariably going to be compared to GOT; they should take it head on. 

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I think people looking for more superficial similarities will be disappointed when there's no sex or nudity in the first episode... or first season. Though it wouldn't surprise me if the shared baths at Fal Dara feature in a couple of scenes late on.

The comparisons to Game of Thrones are inevitable, but I think Amazon would be wiser to compare it to Lord of the Rings although, given they also have a Lord of the Rings show in the works, it's understandable why they might not want to.

I always see the Wheel of Time as a kind of transition point, from the post-Tolkien fantasy of the 1980s that focused heavily on the Hero's Journey and a quest to defeat the great evil, to the late-90s and onwards trend towards darker, more murky stories that place more emphasis on the evil that normal humans can do. 

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On 7/3/2021 at 2:43 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I'd say Donaldson bridged that Tolkien to GRRM/Jordan gap with Thomas Covenant. 

I'd never say that Jordan couldn't do dark (think the nightmares that the Aes Sedai fall into while training in dreaming as an obvious example) but Donaldson was just doing something completely different. It wasn't about making the world dark but about putting a completely irredeemable character as the protagonist. I'm not sure what that lead to (other than more Donaldson) but it didn't lead to grim dark exactly. (GRRM isn't fully grim dark, but it's headed that way)

Edited by Jalyn

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Well, more serious fantasy coming out post LOTR. Except for the first book. You have to throw him in there somewhere.  

Edited by DoctorAtomic

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So the show is going to have a Comicon presence this year - still online only, so I don't think it's going to generate much buzz - and it seems likely that we'll get a teaser trailer, at the very least. Maybe some casting announcements for season two. I can't wait to see who they've found to play Elayne and Lanfear.

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2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

So the show is going to have a Comicon presence this year - still online only, so I don't think it's going to generate much buzz

I don't think lack of Comicon buzz will negatively affect WoT's chances of success. Game of Thrones was at Wondercon (and probably Comicon, but I wasn't there) before its premiere, and there was no line to sit on the Iron Throne.

The reality is that except for the Harry Potter series, no modern fantasy/SF book series has truly been a pop culture phenomenon before the movie/TV adaptation came along to elevate it in awareness. It didn't stop the Hunger Games film franchise from being huge, or GoT from being the television juggernaut it became. I'm not saying there weren't passionate readers/fans prior - of course there were - but the readership even for a best-selling book typically pales in comparison to the numbers for a hit TV show or film.

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Rafe Judkins says there should be a trailer by the end of the summer. Should be. Grain of salt there. However, when does American summer actually end? I know it doesn't mirror Aussie winter.

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The last day of summer this year in the northern hemisphere is September 21st. September 22nd is the fall equinox. Much advertising uses the fall equinox as the cut-off point where their copy will stop referencing summer and start referencing fall.

Labor Day has fallen off in consciousness as the end of summer because many schools start in August now.

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10 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Traditionally, Labor Day is the end of summer. 

I don't even know when Aussie Labour Day is, let alone American.

7 hours ago, Black Knight said:

The last day of summer this year in the northern hemisphere is September 21st. September 22nd is the fall equinox. Much advertising uses the fall equinox as the cut-off point where their copy will stop referencing summer and start referencing fall.

Labor Day has fallen off in consciousness as the end of summer because many schools start in August now.

Thank you!

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I know it's only one image, and I know it's slightly reminiscent of some low quality fantasy shows but... That's Moiraine Sedai!

November feels like it's a long way away.

 

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