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S01.E04: Who Are You?

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A new villain with an eye for all things that sparkle drops in on the city. Kate attempts to find a balance between her personal life and her new role as Gotham's guardian. Catherine has an uncomfortable encounter with Alice who always seems to be one step ahead of the Kane family. Batwoman pays fangirl Mary a visit to ask for a favor. Meanwhile, Jacob and Sophie try to piece together who was after their prisoner. Luke continues to finetune Batwoman's arsenal of weapons as the pair track their unwelcome visitor and discover she has more sinister plans than snatching shiny objects.

Holly Dale directed the episode written by Nancy Kiu and Denise Harkavy.

Airdate: 10/27/2019

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Heh, Batwoman was unavailable to stop Magpie cause she was hooking up with Regan. Gotta learn timing on that one Kate. Bruce made sure his Bat duties were done before his sexytimes with Selina. Until you have it worked out have some pre-planned cover stories for when you get called away. 

Magpie! Love those talons and commitment to her brand. And Kate missing the batarang on the return (due to shorter arms) during their fight at the museum was funny. Though NOT OK to steal Martha’s necklace! Though it was clever to weaponize the replica. I like that Kate’s seemingly throwaway line about being allergic to feathers was true and caused her to sneeze and almost die in Magpie’s nest. That’s the kind of thing an early days vigilante wouldn’t think to plan for. 

Mary fangirling over Batwoman at her clinic was cute. And she’s a damn good person helping Alice’s boyfriend after he almost killed her. Though holy hell did she get briefly scary when she channeled Alice. 

I knew Catherine was involved in keeping Beth away from her family. Sending goons after Alice only for them to get their asses kicked and dismembered by a bunch of guys in bunny masks won’t help company morale. I still think she’s more involved than she’s claimed. 

And Sophie continues to know Kate’s Batwoman without yet having confirmation. At least she won’t be surprised when Kate officially brings her in. 

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Ok I’m confused is The Wayne industry building shuttered and shut down or not cause that office is lit up like it’s business as usual so she just randomly takes control of her billionaire cousins operations no questions? 

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Kate's Batwoman's voice....well it's not the WORST deep voice I've heard in the many variations of Batman (when the actor bothered to try to disguise his voice anyway), but it sounds she has marbles in her mouth.  

I will say something positive for Ruby; her stares that lack emotion still bug me...when she's Kate.  When she has her mask on and has to react a bit more with her mouth (especially in the scene she wasn't allowed to talk) somehow work for me. 

At least Catherine came "clean-ish" about Jacob about Beth, but she's still hiding a hell of a lot. 

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I called it that Catherine faked Beth's identification back in the pilot episode. (Nice to be vindicated) I'm still not convinced she's as innocent as she appears to be.

I will miss Reagan (a worthy relationship for Kate) but at least she didn't die as I was expecting. Kate hust gave her Oliver Queen's "Because of the life I lead" speech from episode 2x07.

What does Vesper Fairchild have against Batwoman?

Once again , Mary is the MVP of the episode. Faking being Alice was awesome.

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Ahhhhh, we're touching on the superhero subtext about "hiding our true selves" as being a metaphor for being in the closet.  This is something superhero comics and movies have seem to have forgotten. 

I didn't like Magpie's look.  Nothing can top her over the top punk look and they should have made it a bit closer to the comics because it needs to be seen to be believed.

Loved the bits with the Baterangs.  It's good to make sure your superhero show doesn't get too dark.  It's good to be light, WB and DC Comics people.

Speaking of light, CAN WE HAVE BETTER LIGHTING ON THESE SHOWS!?

So Catherine is coming clean, but she still has something planned.  Is it pure altruism, though?  Probably not.

And the "You're so pretty, you should smile more" line.  Don't know if it was clever dig at the Captain Marvel complainers or rubbing salt in the fanboy wounds.

Fare-thee-well, Regan.  We barely knew ye.

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1. Mary continues to be one of the best parts of this show, and Rachel Skarsten is still having fun. As is Rachel Maddow. 

But so I don't sound like a complete broken record here, Catherine finally got a chance to do more than just, well, be on this show, and Dougray Scott remembered that he is, at least in theory, a professional actor. And Luke was....better? I guess?

Also, all of the bunny masks are growing on me.

2. Awwwww, Reagan got the "I can't let you in on my secret despite all the great sex," speech in only her second episode. How sad. If you want to get into the Batcave, Reagan, you have to put up with the obvious lies for several episodes, like Felicity over on Arrow!

3. Finally, someone noting that the Batarangs are customized for height/weight! That was a great bit.

4. Less great: "Martha's" pearls breaking and scattering again, and look, yes, I realize these weren't her pearls, but still, how often is the Batverse going to force me to watch those pearls go flying everywhere? Especially when all this does is remind that that Martha Wayne never had her pearls perfectly strung? I don't want to think badly of Martha Wayne. AND YET.

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I reckon we got a better Magpie here than over on Gotham. Miniature explosives is a good gimmick, and having those disguised as pearls was pretty neat. It gave Kate that nice moment with the little girl. Like she would know that the "marble" would have blown her sweet face off.

Kate continues to find out that having a dual life isn't supposed to be easy. Alice is still psychotic and charming at the same time. And Mary  continues to work on her resume for Arrowverse Rookie Of The Season. I don't think it was that difficult for her to channel Alice with the barely-conscious goon, but she put in quite the effort.

Also funny: Kate smothering Magpie's explosive devices, and then something like that happened later tonight on Supergirl.

Edited by Lantern7
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It was an ok episode, Magpie was an enjoyable villain for the little screentime that she got. I did laugh at Batwoman covering all the mini explosives with her cape even though no one was around and then making the last pearl fly into the sky and covering the little girl up even though she was in zero danger at that point.

We've seen many married/divorced parental couples throughout the Arrowverse and Catherine/Jacob have to be the worst ones. The writers have done nothing to make them come across as a couple let alone a couple that is in love so Catherine coming clean and Jacob being pissed at her made me feel nothing. 

Kate is a terrible liar....come up with some better lies girl!

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Bat Duty Calls before Bat Booty Calls

This show suffers from black on black violence, where superhero and villain wear black and fight in a pitch black room. I am sure they are having a great fight, too bad I can't see it.

Mary has to stay in her makeshift hospital all night, you can't just leave patients tied to a bed.

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I like that the show isn't dragging out some unnecessary reveals for the sake of drama.  We already know Alice is Beth, Sophie knows Kate is Batwoman (just hasn't revealed it), and Jake knows what his wife did.

I also like that the show is still saying Kate has personal flaws, that she has to get worked out.  Those flaws have already cost her a new relationship with a woman that was completely into her.

Still digging both Mary and Lucas.

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I swear, Martha Wayne's pearl necklace has become just as significant in comic book pop culture than some of the actual mid-tier comic book characters out there.

Enjoyed seeing more of the the mistakes and goofs with Batwoman's "official first outing", like the mess up with the batarang because Luke still had it tailored to Bruce/Batman's arms, or Kate almost blowing herself up by sneezing at the wrong time.  Superheroing ain't easy!

Magpie is here to more or less be Batwoman's version of Catwoman, only with less flirting (for now?)

Looks like Reagan was just here to show that Kate can't have a social or romantic life if she wants to dawn on the suit.  At least she didn't off her, so maybe she'll return somewhere down the line.

Mary continues to the best by fangirling over Batwoman, agreeing to help the guy even though he tried to kill her, AND taking advantage of his morphine stupor to dig some info out of him.

Credit to Catherine for at least making the smart play of confessing to Jacob first about what she did, instead of letting Alice spill the beans.  Of course he's understandably mad as hell, so Alice will likely still consider it a win!

Seems pretty obvious that Sophie is 99.9% sure Kate is Batwoman.  Kate's going to either have to come clean or find some way to trick her (maybe the old "Dress someone else as Batwoman while she's in the same room" move?)

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22 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Seems pretty obvious that Sophie is 99.9% sure Kate is Batwoman.  Kate's going to either have to come clean or find some way to trick her (maybe the old "Dress someone else as Batwoman while she's in the same room" move?)

I think it's going to be trick her or otherwise dissuade her. It seems too early for an Arrowverse "official rocky Love Interest" to know the secret even if she's knowing and not telling for several episodes and they aren't being exactly original with Sophie in other areas. But maybe they will surprise me. 

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This week, on The Adventures of Young Tig Notaro....


Anyways, I think this show kind of played it safe.  It would have been more impactful if someone died while Kate was hooking up to convince her that she can't afford romance.

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1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Seems pretty obvious that Sophie is 99.9% sure Kate is Batwoman.  Kate's going to either have to come clean or find some way to trick her (maybe the old "Dress someone else as Batwoman while she's in the same room" move?)

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I think it's going to be trick her or otherwise dissuade her. It seems too early for an Arrowverse "official rocky Love Interest" to know the secret even if she's knowing and not telling for several episodes and they aren't being exactly original with Sophie in other areas. But maybe they will surprise me. 

It worked for Arrow. How many times did Diggle and Roy wear Oliver's costume to trick people into thinking that Oliver was not the Green Arrow?

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4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Mary has to stay in her makeshift hospital all night, you can't just leave patients tied to a bed.

Even a patient who stabbed her?!

Besides it doesn't seem the Constitution matters that much in Gotham.  GC's privatized police force had a shoot to kill order on Alice and Tommy Elliott was taken to Arkham Asylum with no due process whatsoever.

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8 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

It was an ok episode, Magpie was an enjoyable villain for the little screentime that she got. I did laugh at Batwoman covering all the mini explosives with her cape even though no one was around and then making the last pearl fly into the sky and covering the little girl up even though she was in zero danger at that point.

I had a good chuckle for a moment before I was a bit annoyed. Maybe it was more the CGI, but the explosions looked so tiny that it probably wouldn't have done more than knock someone over. They definitely didn't feel like someone was in imminent danger unless they were holding it in their hand. 

And then, yeah, covering the little girl despite the fact that it took forever for the pearl bomb to go off? I guess it gave Kate a nice heroic moment with her.

Not a bad episode. I did like seeing another villain show up that's not Alice. Magpie didn't really get much to do besides steal stuff....although her exploding lair was fun. 

Mary is still a highlight of the series. She is so great; I loved her impersonating Alice to get info out of her goon. Poor Mary, didn't even get asked if it was alright to take care of the person who attacked her by Batwoman. Mary better get some serious compensation once she finds out that Batwoman is Kate. 

Kate is definitely learning about the difficulties in having a secret life. I did like that she tried to have a normal relationship with Reagan. I will actually miss Reagan; I liked their goodbye scene, though. I thought it was mature on both ends and less melodramatic because both parties realized it wouldn't work. 

Catherine...confesses to Jacob about her hand in Beth's "confirmed" death and he's rightfully pissed off. But seriously dude, you probably should have taken that Alice-offered DNA test from two episodes ago. I agree that Catherine/Jacob don't really feel like a couple to me. 

At this point, Sophie should be let in on the secret. It's not even just the fact that Kate is the worst liar (I actually do appreciate that flaw of hers) but that she figured it out immediately when Batwoman saved her in the pilot. I don't think any sort of tricking will actually dissuade Sophie from the truth. 

Luke's getting a bit better for me, but he's still not quite there. I think I need to see him interacting with more than just Kate.

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12 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Are they trying to pay homage to the old Adam West Batman with the cheesy camera shots and bad guy reaction line delivery end being caught? 

If so, I approve.

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The last two eps have made me happy. There's the right blend of fun, drama, and plot progression.

What I do have to ask, though, is what the hell did Martha Wayne ever do that makes her so revered as such a powerful woman? I know that she married a rich guy, wore pearls, had a son, and got shot. If there's anything besides that then perhaps they should tell us. 

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5 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

What I do have to ask, though, is what the hell did Martha Wayne ever do that makes her so revered as such a powerful woman? I know that she married a rich guy, wore pearls, had a son, and got shot. If there's anything besides that then perhaps they should tell us. 

I would say go watch the TV show "Pennyworth", but I am not sure if you would be impressed by what Martha Wayne does in that show either or even if anything in that show has any relevance to anything else in the DC Universe.

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14 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

I didn't like Magpie's look.  Nothing can top her over the top punk look and they should have made it a bit closer to the comics because it needs to be seen to be believed.

I always have a little special place in my heart for Magpie because the very first Batman comic that I purchased (out of the over 1000 comics of Batman (and Nightwing and Robin and Catwoman and..............) that I now owe) was Batman #401.

They definitely toned her look down sometime eventually after the 80s ended for the more recent reboot (not to mention her appearance in the "underappreciated" "Beware The Batman" cartoon).

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8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Seems pretty obvious that Sophie is 99.9% sure Kate is Batwoman.  Kate's going to either have to come clean or find some way to trick her (maybe the old "Dress someone else as Batwoman while she's in the same room" move?)

I think Lucas can pull off wearing the wig, but I'm not sure if he'll be able to get his entire feet in the boots.

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Goodbye Reagan, you won't be missed. Her attitude at the party when she came over to Kate talking to Sophie like a jealous girlfriend sent warning bells ringing. Maybe it's me mentally typecasting the actress in Single White Female roles, but her "intuition" comes across as more invasive than cute. Not sad to see her go. 

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The show is getting better! It usually takes a few episodes for a new show to gel, and I think this episode was that point for Batwoman. I even thought Ruby was better! I feel like with some basic background info, you could probably start watching the show from this episode without having to watch the first three.

Anyway, glad the secret about Beth and Catherine is out, and the Reagan arc was mercifully short. Luke and Kate are coming together as a team.

I don't want Mary to be in the loop about Kate/Batwoman for a while; I think it's more fun this way.

Luke and Sophie still need need fleshing out.

Magpie was fun; as well as all of Batwoman's new hero mistakes.

Edited by Trini
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2 hours ago, Twilight Man said:

I always have a little special place in my heart for Magpie because the very first Batman comic that I purchased (out of the over 1000 comics of Batman (and Nightwing and Robin and Catwoman and..............) that I now owe) was Batman #401.

They definitely toned her look down sometime eventually after the 80s ended for the more recent reboot (not to mention her appearance in the "underappreciated" "Beware The Batman" cartoon).

I was glad that they had her wear a mask. Villains always seem to give zero care to their identity and always have to lurk in warehouses. 

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3 hours ago, Twilight Man said:

I always have a little special place in my heart for Magpie because the very first Batman comic that I purchased (out of the over 1000 comics of Batman (and Nightwing and Robin and Catwoman and..............) that I now owe) was Batman #401.

They definitely toned her look down sometime eventually after the 80s ended for the more recent reboot (not to mention her appearance in the "underappreciated" "Beware The Batman" cartoon).

Oh, they gave her a new look in the comics, too? 😞

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18 hours ago, quarks said:

4. Less great: "Martha's" pearls breaking and scattering again, and look, yes, I realize these weren't her pearls, but still, how often is the Batverse going to force me to watch those pearls go flying everywhere? Especially when all this does is remind that that Martha Wayne never had her pearls perfectly strung? I don't want to think badly of Martha Wayne. AND YET.

My only issue is that EXPENSIVE pearls would NEVER scatter like that, because they are not connected on a singular string. If they are a replica of the real pearls, they should be connected properly. On the other hand, we wouldn't have had the rolling pearls and it was for the plot but still.

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So, what, the cape protects from explosions? GTF out of here. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand of course, Kate will eventually get back with what's her name, cause they already started droopy eyeing each other.

So, does Alice's plan to get the top secret ultra rare legendary weapon now is moot, cause the evil step-mother confessed to the always angry dad?

Sorry, I can't remember 90 percent of characters names (or care to).

For that matter, who coined the term Batwoman in their universe? Because the last episode Vesper debated on what to call her. And what's her name said to herself "Batwoman". Is Vesper a mind-reader? Details, man, they are important.

Edited by Rushmoras
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I am sure she can just tell people what she wants to be called since she is stopping to take selfies with little girls who almost got exploded.

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I mean,  Martha isn't a like crusader for anything.   But she ran numerous charities and shelters and the like.  Not enough to be globally recognized but enough that an event in Gotham would still remember all the good she did. 

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It was indirect, but they showed the first indication that Kate is Jewish with the stars of David on her mother and sister's tombstones.

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I really enjoyed Kate going on her first "official" Batwoman mission, and things going wrong just based on inexperience and little details! Allergies, bat supplies malfunctioning, clothing sizes, its the kind of thing that a new superhero needs to work out with experience! You dont see a lot of practical stuff like that in a lot of superhero stories, so it was fun to see here, and I think that RR does pretty well with comedy. 

Mary is still my favorite character, she was great impersonating Alice to get information, savings the guys life even after he stabbed her (and ruined her favorite plaid shirt!) and fangirling over Batwoman. I cant wait for her to find out the truth and officially join the team. 

Definitely called Catherine being behind Beth's "bones" being found, but did she do it to help the Kanes, or have a more sinister reason? At least Catherine and Jacob actually had a scene together, I swear I keep forgetting they're married, even though I always know that Kate and Mary are sisters. 

Magpie was a fun early villain, I can appreciate her commitment to theme. I kind of suspected that Reagan would be working with her (especially after she was saying what happened to the building she grew up in) but I am glad she wasnt, even if I am sad that she and Kate are already done. Maybe once she figures out that secret identity sweet spot!

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Question to Comic fans...  

Who are Kate’s love interests in the Comics? Does she have a woman that’s considered her true love? Also, is Sophie in the Comics at all? 
 

Edited by Auror

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56 minutes ago, Auror said:

Question to Comic fans...  

Who are Kate’s love interests in the Comics? Does she have a woman that’s considered her true love? Also, is Sophie in the Comics at all? 
 

Taking reply to the Batwoman in Comics thread. 

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On 10/28/2019 at 5:35 PM, Eneya said:

My only issue is that EXPENSIVE pearls would NEVER scatter like that, because they are not connected on a singular string. If they are a replica of the real pearls, they should be connected properly. On the other hand, we wouldn't have had the rolling pearls and it was for the plot but still.

Most Batman origin flashbacks have the same issue.

Unless maybe they really were cheap or fake pearls all along, making Martha's death even more tragic.

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Started to put this in episode 3, and stopped myself before I spoiled. 

Sophie was a BITCH to interfere with Kate's date. She should have said "Sorry! Y'all have fun" at second one. But she didn't. She stood there being awkward, and then had the AUDACITY to look hurt that Kate was moving on.

Well, tough shit, Sophie. You made your bed. Go lie in it and leave Kate alone. 

(Okay, yeah, I can't stand Sophie. I've found not one tiny redeemable quality in her character.)

Edited by rainsmom
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On 10/29/2019 at 11:56 PM, Trini said:

It was indirect, but they showed the first indication that Kate is Jewish with the stars of David on her mother and sister's tombstones.

Evidently in the comics Kate chooses the red wig and red bat symbol as a nod to her Jewish heritage. But in the show Kate says she chose the color as a nod to the stone in the necklace she and Beth shared. I’m curious as to why they made that change.

2 hours ago, rainsmom said:

Started to put this in episode 3, and stopped myself before I spoiled. 

Sophie was a BITCH to interfere with Kate's date. She should have said "Sorry! Y'all have fun" at second one. But she didn't. She stood there being awkward, and then had the AUDACITY to look hurt that Kate was moving on.

Well, tough shit, Sophie. You made your bed. Go lie in it and leave Kate alone. 

(Okay, yeah, I can't stand Sophie. I've found not one tiny redeemable quality in her character.)

This whole portrayal of Sophie is very one-sided. We’ve never gotten her point of view. We have no idea why Sophie is saying one thing and doing another. They could come back next week and say that Sophie can’t be with Kate because the military school would retroactively revoke Sophie’s degree, and nothing in the script would dispute that. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but I don’t think it’s as simple as Sophie just turning her feelings off.  

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Fun episode, especially with our first villain of the week that wasn't Alice. Pretty sure Magpie will be back, especially with her "rob from the rich" spiel. 

I like that Kate is uncomfortable with her secret identity explicitly because she's so upfront about who she is in all other respects. There are plenty of superhero/secret identity shows out there that flirt with it being a metaphor for being in the closet ("have you tried NOT being a mutant?"), but I think this is the first time it's been framed in this particular way: a gay woman who is uncomfortable being IN the closet. 

On a related note, I like the contrast in how Mary reacts to Batwoman and Kate: a big fangirl with the former, and a little awkward with the latter. Along with the gay metaphor, it's a familiar trope of the superhero genre (a single person responding very differently to two sides of a persona) but tweaked to make it feel fresh and original.

Unlike Kate giving the "I can't be with you because of other commitments" speech to Regan. Even between two women, it's old hat.

Weaponizing Martha's pearls made me laugh; they really are the most famous bit of fictional jewellery out there, aren't they.

Mary and the stepmother remain the two most interesting characters. Catherine in particular reminds me of Moira Queen at her manipulative best/worst. 

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On 11/1/2019 at 3:56 AM, BaggythePanther said:

This whole portrayal of Sophie is very one-sided. We’ve never gotten her point of view. We have no idea why Sophie is saying one thing and doing another. They could come back next week and say that Sophie can’t be with Kate because the military school would retroactively revoke Sophie’s degree, and nothing in the script would dispute that. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but I don’t think it’s as simple as Sophie just turning her feelings off.  

IMO, it really doesn't matter. They broke-up, Sophie's married. Stop making longing glances at your ex!

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On 11/4/2019 at 2:03 PM, Rushmoras said:

IMO, it really doesn't matter. They broke-up, Sophie's married. Stop making longing glances at your ex!

It matters if the show is (clearly) giving them OTP status. There has to be a reason for us to want them together besides the "Lead Character Gets Desired Love Interest" trope and right now, they're not doing either of them any favors. 

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12 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

It matters if the show is (clearly) giving them OTP status. There has to be a reason for us to want them together besides the "Lead Character Gets Desired Love Interest" trope and right now, they're not doing either of them any favors. 

Well, I don't know who would want them together at this point. As I've mentioned, it borderlines on theoretical adultery right now. If the husband was out of the picture from the get go, it would be different. But all it does it infuse anger towards, em, Sophie, right?

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another awesome episode

The scene with Catherine confessing was really well acted by the actress. I cant help still liking her. 

Sophie and Kate do make a good team as does Luke and Kate.

Reagan was pleasant enough, but see ya. 

Edited by CabotCove

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17 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Well, I don't know who would want them together at this point. As I've mentioned, it borderlines on theoretical adultery right now. If the husband was out of the picture from the get go, it would be different. But all it does it infuse anger towards, em, Sophie, right?

That’s the problem. The show is setting them up as an OTP, but they’re not giving you a reason to like or understand Sophie’s actions. So by the time the husband is out of the way and they can get together, most people won’t care.

The executive producer used to write for The Vampire Diaries and the relationships on that show were fucked up, so maybe the writers didn’t realize Sophie’s actions would be such a big deal.

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On 11/9/2019 at 6:28 PM, BaggythePanther said:

The executive producer used to write for The Vampire Diaries and the relationships on that show were fucked up, so maybe the writers didn’t realize Sophie’s actions would be such a big deal.

I mean Kate's "I would have come back to crash your wedding" is straight out of Damon Salvatore's playbook and tweens went wild for him. 

So maybe it's not the writers thinking the same trick won't work, but not understanding that it doesn't work when the actors aren't a het white couple.

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