S02.E03: You Remind Me of Someone I Used to Know

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

As the Salvatore School prepares for its annual football game against Mystic Falls High, the latest monster to arrive in Mystic Falls sets its eyes on one of the students. Landon and Josie's relationship is put to the test when a player from the opposing team catches his eye. Elsewhere, Lizzie enlists MG's help learning more about Sebastian, and Alaric goes head to head with Professor Vardemus.

Promo:

Original air date: 10/24/19

Edited October 19, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ketose]

Ah, Mystic Falls, never stop your traditions no matter how many people are maimed by them.

Raf is back and he doesn't remember Hope.

Which Saltzman daughter is crazier, the one going all Carrie or the one with the invisible lover?

Apparently, the headmaster is Malivore, or maybe Clarke.

There's a new sheriff in town, and no one has explained the whole magical being thing to her.

And why wouldn't you have a Halloween episode of Legacies? Must be a low ratings night.

Edited October 25, 2019 by ketose
Overuse of the same word

[UNOSEZ]

Booooo.... Raf is back and they don't have him remember hope... Watch him fade in and out of this season.. Because those two kids at mystic falls will have to have screentime chasing after hope.. We already know screentime  for Landon and hope remembering stuff.. Landon and Josie... Lizzie and her maybe imaginary boyfriend.. Mg chasing after Lizzie and kaleb hanging with MG... So congrats in advance Julie plec for ruining RAF with small asides with Landon and who knows what else... SMH

[mommalib]

41 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Booooo.... Raf is back and they don't have him remember hope... Watch him fade in and out of this season.. Because those two kids at mystic falls will have to have screentime chasing after hope.. We already know screentime  for Landon and hope remembering stuff.. Landon and Josie... Lizzie and her maybe imaginary boyfriend.. Mg chasing after Lizzie and kaleb hanging with MG... So congrats in advance Julie plec for ruining RAF with small asides with Landon and who knows what else... SMH

I told you what they were going to do not only RAF but all three of the black male characters. And that's exactly how it's shaking out.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, mommalib said:

I told you what they were going to do not only RAF but all three of the black male characters. And that's exactly how it's shaking out.

I don't see that at all.

I see some very promising stuff coming up with MG and Rafael. Kaleb even is seemingly going to get more involved. I liked Kaleb's role this episode.

MG and Lizzie's plot was well done. I like that Lizzie genuinely cares about him, and I like that he can set aside his feelings to help Lizzie. 

But the whole Sebastian not being able to be seen by anyone but Lizzie? Weird. It DOES feel like Sebastian may be someone who chose Lizzie to be the one who can see him so that she releases him from whatever he's trapped in, and he could very well be super evil. I guess I'd rather that than see them fall in love. 

Yay! Raf is back! So, the theories about him remembering Hope were absolutely wrong. But I think he's definitely going to be struggling with being back in human form. He was trapped as a wolf for months. It's not going to be easy for him. 

Josie's tapping into her dark side, so that can't be good. I guess she really IS showing that she's the darker twin. We kind of already knew that, but it seems like Josie will be used by Headmaster Wesley, who is obviously up to no good. Caroline, you chose the new headmaster....poorly. 

New Sheriff in town. So, did Matt just...what, up and quit? Moved somewhere else? I still don't know how I feel about new brother and sister duo. Maya seems like she's be more interesting than her brother, so that's a plus. 

[UNOSEZ]

15 minutes ago, mommalib said:

I told you what they were going to do not only RAF but all three of the black male characters. And that's exactly how it's shaking out.

Well I mostly agreed with you.. I knew where we were headed with MG and Kaleb,  tho looks like MG will be more involved with the Lizzie mess than I thought... But I def said if RAF remembered hope,  it would be a different story.. Unfortunately the show looks like it decided to go with the RAF in the shadows.. He doesn't remember Hope.. So he's not a LI or at least a helper on her quest to make everyone remember... So what's left.. The sisters who both kinda fancied him have moved on.. So I'm just all around dissapointed 

[UNOSEZ]

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yay! Raf is back! So, the theories about him remembering Hope were absolutely wrong. But I think he's definitely going to be struggling with being back in human form. He was trapped as a wolf for months. It's not going to be easy for him. 

Hooray... Black kid gets to straddle the fence between man and beast.. Suffer nonstop And be nursed to health by Landon and then spend the rest of the season as the amped up bodyguard... Ugh... I hope I'm wrong... I pray ur right about meaningful arcs for RAF and MG.. But my history of watching shows in general and Julie plec in particular 

[mommalib]

8 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Well I mostly agreed with you.. I knew where we were headed with MG and Kaleb,  tho looks like MG will be more involved with the Lizzie mess than I thought... But I def said if RAF remembered hope,  it would be a different story.. Unfortunately the show looks like it decided to go with the RAF in the shadows.. He doesn't remember Hope.. So he's not a LI or at least a helper on her quest to make everyone remember... So what's left.. The sisters who both kinda fancied him have moved on.. So I'm just all around dissapointed 

So we got MG looking like a sucka with this Lizzie mess. Caleb is black best friend status and it looks like Rafeal will be lost in the shuffle. I want to be wrong about this.

[UNOSEZ]

10 minutes ago, mommalib said:

So we got MG looking like a sucka with this Lizzie mess. Caleb is black best friend status and it looks like Rafeal will be lost in the shuffle. I want to be wrong about this.

You and me both... Maybe we'll know more after the episode on the  7th

Edited October 25, 2019 by UNOSEZ

[Lady Calypso]

Anyway....so what IS the deal with Sebastian, anyway? Any other theories? He seems to only be seen by Lizzie but is it some sort of weird soulmates thing or is it because he's using her and making it seem like they're soulmates? 

Because I have NO real idea if they're planning to make Sebastian evil or have him fall for Lizzie.

[UNOSEZ]

11 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Anyway....so what IS the deal with Sebastian, anyway? Any other theories? He seems to only be seen by Lizzie but is it some sort of weird soulmates thing or is it because he's using her and making it seem like they're soulmates? 

Because I have NO real idea if they're planning to make Sebastian evil or have him fall for Lizzie.

Not sure.. Creepy romances are kinda standard for this universe.. One that seems to never bother ppl is Marcel abd Rebekah... He was a child and a slave/ about to be free... when they met... She was like 700+ and also basically his aunt.. At least Damon and Stefan didn't raise Elena... Based on the interviews I think something is keeping otter ppl from seeing him.. I don't believe Sebastian isnt real... Maybe he needs Lizzie to be seen more I dunno.. Out of all the new cast members his character has gotten the most press so I figure he'll be a pretty significant piece of this season... Plec needed her new Damon-like character 

[mommalib]

35 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Anyway....so what IS the deal with Sebastian, anyway? Any other theories? He seems to only be seen by Lizzie but is it some sort of weird soulmates thing or is it because he's using her and making it seem like they're soulmates? 

Because I have NO real idea if they're planning to make Sebastian evil or have him fall for Lizzie.

What do you mean anyway? The other poster didn't catch that but I did. Don't be dismissive of our concerns.

Edited October 25, 2019 by mommalib

[mommalib]

17 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Not sure.. Creepy romances are kinda standard for this universe.. One that seems to never bother ppl is Marcel abd Rebekah... He was a child and a slave/ about to be free... when they met... She was like 700+ and also basically his aunt.. At least Damon and Stefan didn't raise Elena... Based on the interviews I think something is keeping otter ppl from seeing him.. I don't believe Sebastian isnt real... Maybe he needs Lizzie to be seen more I dunno.. Out of all the new cast members his character has gotten the most press so I figure he'll be a pretty significant piece of this season... Plec needed her new Damon-like character 

He's probably gonna be Damon Jr. so I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually starts eating the show.

[Lady Calypso]

11 minutes ago, mommalib said:

What do you mean anyway? The other poster didn't catch that but I did. Don't be dismissive of our concerns.

I'm not. I understand your views completely. I do think that there are worries to be had, as proven with other shows. I do think that this show has shown that they care about its characters, but even I worry that they're going to ruin all the characters. I mean, look at what they seem to be doing to Lizzie and her progress probably being ruined by Sebastian. I just wanted to talk more about the Sebastian stuff because of the fear of the direction that his character will go toward, in that he'll become another Damon/Elijah/Klaus type vampire. And with this new revelation that Lizzie seems to be the only one who can see him, I worry that he's definitely going to be using her for his own personal gain. And I love Lizzie; she's my favourite character next to Kaleb, MG, and Hope. 

I also wonder if Sebastian is connected to the Malivore stuff or if he's his own plotline. And I wonder if it'll be MG who catches on to Sebastian, since I don't think Lizzie's going to be seeing the danger that Sebastian will clearly bring. MG's always been intuitive about things, which is why I think his story this season will be more about his crush on Lizzie. I think he'll be a vital part of the Sebastian mystery as well. But the first step is getting MG to actually see Sebastian. 

Also, if Sebastian is a true vampire, did he have his own daylight ring or something? Or if he really just not there and his physical body is still trapped somewhere else? 

[ursula]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

One that seems to never bother ppl is Marcel abd Rebekah... He was a child and a slave/ about to be free... when they met... She was like 700+ and also basically his aunt..

I see your Mebekah and I raise you Freelin where Keelin fell in love with the woman who kidnapped her, tortured her, and threatened to turn her into a mindless animal.

[mommalib]

49 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm not. I understand your views completely. I do think that there are worries to be had, as proven with other shows. I do think that this show has shown that they care about its characters, but even I worry that they're going to ruin all the characters. I mean, look at what they seem to be doing to Lizzie and her progress probably being ruined by Sebastian. I just wanted to talk more about the Sebastian stuff because of the fear of the direction that his character will go toward, in that he'll become another Damon/Elijah/Klaus type vampire. And with this new revelation that Lizzie seems to be the only one who can see him, I worry that he's definitely going to be using her for his own personal gain. And I love Lizzie; she's my favourite character next to Kaleb, MG, and Hope. 

I also wonder if Sebastian is connected to the Malivore stuff or if he's his own plotline. And I wonder if it'll be MG who catches on to Sebastian, since I don't think Lizzie's going to be seeing the danger that Sebastian will clearly bring. MG's always been intuitive about things, which is why I think his story this season will be more about his crush on Lizzie. I think he'll be a vital part of the Sebastian mystery as well. But the first step is getting MG to actually see Sebastian. 

Also, if Sebastian is a true vampire, did he have his own daylight ring or something? Or if he really just not there and his physical body is still trapped somewhere else? 

All I know is the last thing this show needs is a Damon or a Klaus, The kind of character that can commit all kinds of horrific acts but still be portrayed as if they are viable romantic options instaed of villians. But it's Julie Plec so.... And if MG is as involved as it looks like he will be I don't want to see him get steamrolled. And Lizzie is about to get used by this guy big time.

Edited October 25, 2019 by mommalib

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

so what IS the deal with Sebastian, anyway? Any other theories? He seems to only be seen by Lizzie but is it some sort of weird soulmates thing or is it because he's using her and making it seem like they're soulmates? 

Maybe he's projecting into her head. He shouldn't be able to do so if she's a witch, but guessing this show, they're probably going to hand-wave that with her bipolar disorder.  😒

2 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Black kid gets to straddle the fence between man and beast.. Suffer nonstop And be nursed to health by Landon and then spend the rest of the season as the amped up bodyguard...

Now that Raf has turned human with no memory of Hope, it 100% proves that there was no reason for this plotline except to play into racist tropes and sideline his character. Hope could have just given him a normal moonlight ring. We know they exist. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You know, I get high school and sports rivalries existing, but when they extend to theft, property damage, or vandalism, I just can't support that. I'm not necessarily saying you deserve to be attacked by a werewolf-eating monster for it, but I was glad that some of the other football players declined to participate in it with the guy who can't spell.

So in the entire however many year history of the Salvatore School, they have been throwing the annual football game so the townies don't suspect the students are supernatural, but somehow it's okay for MG to vamp read in front of everyone at the game?

Once Alaric realized that Wesley Wyndham-Pryce was up to no good, why didn't he immediately call Caroline and ask why in the hell she hired him?

Obviously Josie never learned the first rule of being a a witch: never do a spell if you don't know what it's actually going to do!

So Edward Cullen is a ghost vampire? Or a ghost pretending to be a vampire? Or maybe his kid just needs to play a song at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance so his parents can kiss and then he will reappear?

Josie's nose is bleeding from doing Bad Magic. Or is it just magic that's too powerful for her? I remember Bonnie's magical nosebleeds started pretty early so I guess Josie is going to have to level up her power soon.

It looks like Lizzie's summer of therapy really worked because she was pretty chill at the football game. I mean, she's still obsessing about a boy but at least she is trying to be proactive and find out as much as she can about him.

Edited October 25, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Chris24601]

I’m starting to get the feeling that there isn’t going to be a “everyone remembers Hope” moment and, rather like the time jumps in TVD and TO, the writers decided to shake everything up instead of resuming the status quo.

They’ve introduced a new sheriff (Sheriff’s are generally elected and often have term limits or after 16-20 years in office Matt decided to not run again and get his family the hell out of Dodge when he recognized the rising level of crazy coming from of the Salvitor School) with kids who are getting developed as friends for Hope with a reason to hate the supernatural when they find out about how they screwed over the son’s hopes and dreams because the superhumans wanted to win a pickup game of flag football against the mundanes.

Then they went and made Landon suspicious of Hope and with Raf not remembering Hope either they’ve given Landon and Josie a plot line where they’ll have the chance to grow closer.

Maybe it only runs to mid-season, but we’re three in and another five doesn’t seem like enough time for Hope’s mundane friends, Landon/Josie investigating and then undoing whatever aspect of Malivore made everyone forget her.

And if it runs past that I almost think it’s going to be permanent since all new relationships will have been established and cemented by the finale.

Kudos for not going with an easy fix/resumption of the status quo I guess?

As to Raf not remembering... my hunch is that they didn’t have specific plans for Raf in terms of the finale... they just picked something to give them options. At a minimum it allowed a couple plausible skip episodes in what seems to be the 13 episode/season contracts for everyone but Alaric and Hope (if last season was anything to go by).

And the minimum seems to be what they chose to go with... pretty much picking back up Raf’s man/wolf overlap problem that started back in the “Landon is a Phoenix” reveal episode.

I’ll be charitable at the moment though and guess that the reason for this is mostly the direction they decided to go with Hope’s story amounting to something of a soft reboot.

I’m also not too worried yet about Sebastian being a Damon 2.0 because it’s absolutely clear that he’s NOT a vampire and is playing Lizzie for a particular reason. I almost wonder if he’s not actually an illusion created by the headmaster to get the twin out of the way while he works on corrupting Josie for his own agenda (heck, the headmaster’s introduction was throwing out a lasting full sensory illusion to redecorate the office.

Between the illusions and now eating the flesh of the fallen monster I’m wondering if the headmaster isn’t a ghoul (of the Middle Eastern myths variety... who drew people off the travelled paths to their dooms with illusions and could supposedly take on the form of someone they’d eaten... which would explain why Caroline picked him... she picked the guy the ghoul ate).

[UNOSEZ]

5 hours ago, ursula said:

I see your Mebekah and I raise you Freelin where Keelin fell in love with the woman who kidnapped her, tortured her, and threatened to turn her into a mindless animal.

Wild as it sounds by the time that started to happen I was so used to the treatment that I was actually more upset that they had Freya doing it.. Than Keelin somehow getting over being kidnapped and tortured... because as I'm sure your aware apart from being  wolf Keelin had the other super power all melanated characters have in this universe the power of "forever-forgiveness"

[UNOSEZ]

Changing lanes for a minute... When Freya shows up will she be a mom.. If so is it hers and vincent's or Keelin and vincent's I do wonder how that all played out.. I say do both and just have half-step siblings... One a OD powerful witch( a boy this time)  and a proper were-witch as some of the rules don't have to apply anymore.. Also let's get Marcel and Rebekah to get in on this.. She's still technically a witch and I'm not sure what he is ( the beast is slightly problematic)  ima just say demon.. So a demon witch kid.. I'd say throw in Elena and Damon's spawn.. But then we wouldn't need anyone else as julie would have the camera focused on them all the time

[Chris24601]

All the talk of the other spawn makes me wonder if that’s another reason they may have decided to make the world forgetting Hope stick... no more having to write around Hope having these powerful family members who’d certainly come help if they remembered her.

Of course they’d still have photos and such of Hope and there’s the lingering question of why Klaus and Elijah offed themselves, etc. but it at least hangs a piece of plywood over the gaping plot hole.

[AnimeMania]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

You know, I get high school and sports rivalries existing, but when they extend to theft, property damage, or vandalism, I just can't support that. I'm not necessarily saying you deserve to be attacked by a werewolf-eating monster for it, but I was glad that some of the other football players declined to participate in it with the guy who can't spell.

First off it wasn't an official game and second were any of the football team actually playing in a no-contest flag football game. It seems like a waste of their talent, so why were they vandalizing.

When Maya scores a touchdown she spikes the ball, it looks like the ball bounces back up and hits her in the face.

[beeemkcl]

* This was a good episode of Legacies, albeit I still don’t understand the ‘tackle football’ with no pads between boys and girls. It’s flag football, but tackling is totally fine?

* The chemistry between Hope and Landon is better and they are already more interesting and compelling this Season than Landon/Josie.

Josie is disturbingly ‘territorial’. I wonder had Hope stayed in the football game if Josie would have tried to purposefully hurt Hope.

* The new Headmaster is now even more interesting, as he’s a supernatural being. And he eats powerful supernatural beings? He’s also some kind of hybrid?

* I wonder what is going on with Lizzie. Is the new guy invisible? Fake?

By the way; so far, this new guy is less creepy than Stefan Salvatore and Damon Salvatore.

* It’s kinda lame that Raf’s not being reverted is somehow Hope didn’t KNOW he wolfed out? Couldn’t she have checked simply for the possibility?

* There might be some connection with the new Headmaster and Landon, given it was random that Landon would be deemed the quarterback without knowing if Landon had even played the position before.

* Josie is becoming unlikable. She breaks the throwing arm of a potential new star NFL quarterback during a high school football game and she’s only mildly disturbed at her actions.

RESPONSES TO THE THREAD:

* Hope Mikaelson is the most important character in Legacies. If she still didn’t have feelings for Landon, EVERYONE at the Salvatore School could be lessened to guest stars, killed off, etc. If she stays at Mystic Falls High School, THAT’s the new center of gravity and the new series.

The Salvatore School literally only functions beyond a skeletal operation because Hayley Marshall decided to enroll Hope there and Klaus Mikaelson wanted Hope to be comfortable there.

* I don’t like the idea of Hope/Raf happening just because Raf somehow remembers Hope and Landon doesn’t. It’s good that Raf doesn’t remember Hope. NO ONE remembers Hope, not even Hope’s Original Family.

* I kinda like the idea of Hope’s befriending humans—the brother and sister are at least somewhat interesting.

* Lizzie NEVER has to ‘be with’ MG. So what if MG finds her hot and interesting. She gets to decide whom she’s attracted to, wants to have sex with, etc.

I still feel bad for her that Raf ‘humped her and dumped her’.

* I remember Julie Plec was a huge fan of Elena/Stefan but simply ‘gave in’ to the small but very rabid Delena fanbase. And ratings went down after Delena started.

* If a Freya/Keelin/Vincent child appears, if a Rebekah/Marcel child appears… some of these current characters become much less important. We’d have essentially the equivalent of a royal supernatural dynasty. Even Landon doesn’t seem to show any great powers expect being able to come back to life.

Edited October 25, 2019 by beeemkcl

[UNOSEZ]

32 minutes ago, beeemkcl said:

Lizzie NEVER has to ‘be with’ MG. So what if MG finds her hot and interesting. She gets to decide whom she’s attracted to, wants to have sex with, etc.

I can't speak for others but I never thought MG had to be with Lizzie or vice versa... 

The problem with RAF not remembering hope has been stated above.. If he's not part of the plot helping her figure out things.. Or getting memories back.. And he's not a LI... Then what exactly is there for him based on what's going on.. Besides him and his suffering ( a LA Bonnie Bennett)  and his wolf anger ( angry black guy) those of us complaining are worried he'll just be put in the background where he'd just be "diversity window dressing"  and Landon's protector.. Hell he didn't even get to be human again until Landon needed saving,  most of his actions last year including splitting his mind in two were to help Landon... In fact it really is kinda like Bonnie and Elena again... Cept Landon isn't  as horrible ( cept when he knew he and RAF were in danger but he was having too much fun making money off of RAF being able to wolf jump real high and  figured he knew better)  thank heavens for Jeremy Gilbert  

[RachelKM]

I don't know what the hell is up with Sebastian.  But I have to admit he was pretty funny with his over the top romantic fantasy trope nonsense that seriously bordered on satire. "I am vampyr, " complete with veiny eyes.   And his sputtering incredulity at Lizzie's response was hilarious.  I actually like the idea of him being some sort of illusion because he is utterly ridiculous with his Byron-esque garb, his willfully enigmatic interactions, and his faux nobility in  popping up everywhere Lizzie is to tell her to stay away from him.  It's like really bad Anne Rice fanfic.  It would be brilliant if it actually was a setup and worked only because Lizzie is, in fact, a teenager.

I hope Maya sticks around.  I like her.  I don't know yet about the Sheriff, but I don't mind her kids.  Even Ethan, who was given the cocky but charming QB treatment last week, seemed pretty okay this episode. 

I'm glad Raf is back.  I'm reserving judgment on his story line until we see more of it. 

Headmaster Wesley is entertaining to a point.  But its a little ham-fisted.  So I want this story to move along.  I do like the idea of him being a sinister impostor for whomever Caroline hired.

Edited October 25, 2019 by RachelKM

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, beeemkcl said:

I remember Julie Plec was a huge fan of Elena/Stefan but simply ‘gave in’ to the small but very rabid Delena fanbase. And ratings went down after Delena started.

I'm not sure about the size of Delena fandom one way or another, though it seemed equal-ish to Stelena fandom.  However, I believe the ratings began dropping due to the marked decline in writing after Season 2, not because of Delena specifically.  The ratings went down by about the same amount every season until Season 6 when if fell off sharply.  Seasons 7 and 8 were basically running on fumes and the show moved to Fridays.

Edited October 25, 2019 by RachelKM

[Chris24601]

31 minutes ago, beeemkcl said:

* Hope Mikaelson is the most important character in Legacies. If she still didn’t have feelings for Landon, EVERYONE at the Salvatore School could be lessened to guest stars, killed off, etc. If she stays at Mystic Falls High School, THAT’s the new center of gravity and the new series.

I think it’s worth noting that this isn’t just metaphorical. Last season EVERY character except Hope and Alaric was absent for 4 of the 16 episodes; specific enough that it’s got to be contractural (and also means we’ll probably get a couple Hope/Raf and/or Alaric/Raf episodes down the line as he’s the only one of the part-timers to have been absent in two episodes already).

In fact, I’d argue the center of gravity has already moved to Mystic Falls High School. Not only is Hope there, Alaric; the only other “in every episode” cast member; is now principal there too and they added two new apparent semi-regulars (three if the sheriff keeps showing up) to the school for Hope and Alaric to interact with.

Further, there will absolutely be episodes this season where the Salvator School crew is largely absent (so it’s a good thing Hope’s got some Scoobies and Alaric a Sheriff to interact with for those... like they planned for it even) as part of keeping to the contracted number of episodes adding further weight to MFHS as the show’s center of gravity.

I think they also firmed up this season’s arcs for the season too.

- The “mystery” of Hope (mainly Landon assisted by Josie)

- The mystery of the Headmaster (mainly Josie plus Alaric and Hope since his spell got a student/Hope’s friend hurt)

- The mystery of Sebastian (Lizzie, MG and Kaleb)

- What are the monsters after now (mainly Hope and Alaric; new kids and Sheriff as complications)

- Raf’s wolf complications (Raf, supported by Landon, but probably also getting a Hope and/or Alaric episode).

- Very Back Burner currently, but Twin Merge/Ascendant/Kai is in there too when relevant.

My hunch is the absenses in later episodes will mostly align with one of those plot lines getting back-burnered for an episode or two periodically.

[UNOSEZ]

29 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

I don't know what the hell is up with Sebastian.  But I have to admit he was pretty funny with his over the top romantic fantasy trope nonsense that seriously bordered on satire "I am vampyr, " complete with veiny eyes.   And his sputtering incredulity at Lizzie's response was hilarious.  I actually like the idea of him being some sort of illusion because he is utterly ridiculous with his Byron-ese garb, his willfully enigmatic interactions, and his faux nobility in  popping up everywhere Lizzie is to tell her to stay away from him.  It's like really bad Anne Rice fanfic.  It would be brilliant if it actually was a setup and worked only because Lizzie is, in fact, a teenager.

I hope Maya sticks around.  I like her.  I don't know yet about the Sheriff, but I don't mind her kids.  Even Ethan, who was given the cocky but charming QB treatment last week, seemed pretty okay this episode. 

I'm glad Raf is back.  I'm reserving judgment on his story line until we see more of it. 

Headmaster Wesley is entertaining to a point.  But its a little ham-fisted.  So I want this story to move along.  I do like the idea of him being a sinister impostor for whomever Caroline hired.

I love that idea... I doubt that's what they're doing but it would be genius because his whole show up and be enigmatic thing us aching to just be mocked... I also loved his response to Lizzie being fine with him being a vamp... 

The QB1 was better this episode his refusal of vandalism was the show trying to add some layers.. I also liked him saying he'd play for his school.. Of course now he's an athlete that has had his sport ripped from him... So manpain will be had.. Hope will be leaned on... 

I'm with you about waiting and seeing with RAF... History just has me pessimistic and I don't wanna be let down so I'm expecting the worst 

Headmaster is def shady... Him faking out Caroline makes sense cuz while I dont totally agree with Alaric about how much he curtails the kids at his school.. This guy is a lil too far the opposite way 

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Chris24601 said:

In fact, I’d argue the center of gravity has already moved to Mystic Falls High School. 

I wish I could take that bet.

There are some narrative shifts that are just too drastic.  In TVD-5, the girls went to college, yet somehow Whitmore and their college dorm room never quite displaced Mystic Falls and the Salvatore House as the home base for the show. And that's not even getting into the fact that the high school can't logically displace Hogwarts in a magic school series. Yes, even if Harry Potter is enrolled in the high school - there's a reason why  the show was pitched as Hope in the Salvatore School, not Hope-In-The-City. Hope is 18. Technically, she's an adult and should have probably graduated from the school, since she's supposed to be a genius. They're keeping the trappings of magic high school for a reason. 

What's more likely that the show will do a few more "neutral ground" settings while gradually morphing Hope and Alaric back into the Salvatore School. 

3 hours ago, beeemkcl said:

Hope Mikaelson is the most important character in Legacies.

So was Elena Gilbert in The Vampire Diaries.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

I love that idea... I doubt that's what they're doing but it would be genius because his whole show up and be enigmatic thing us aching to just be mocked... I also loved his response to Lizzie being fine with him being a vamp... 

I legit thought he was a parody of Elijah the first time he showed up. Like the show was mocking the idea of the Brooding Mysterious Vampire. 

One thing that confused me in this episode - Lizzie already told him she was a witch. So why did he act so surprised that she wasn't afraid of him? Did he not believe her, or did he not understand her when she said so?

[RachelKM]

24 minutes ago, ursula said:

One thing that confused me in this episode - Lizzie already told him she was a witch. So why did he act so surprised that she wasn't afraid of him? Did he not believe her, or did he not understand her when she said so?

Witches, vampires, and werewolves didn't interact and most witches seemed to avoid/fear vampires prior to the TVD/O timelines.  And even when they didn't fear them, they were pretty anti-vamp (not without reason, but witches of this universe have a pretty dodgy history too).  The Salvatore School is rather novel in keeping all of the superhuman creatures combined. 

[ursula]

10 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Witches, vampires, and werewolves didn't interact and most witches seemed to avoid/fear vampires prior to the TVD/O timelines.  And even when they didn't fear them, they were pretty anti-vamp (not without reason, but witches of this universe have a pretty dodgy history too).  The Salvatore School is rather novel in keeping all of the superhuman creatures combined. 

I would really love if that's true! Because you're right, despite some tension here and there, the school runs like a sort of supernatural utopia that is very alien to the verse. 

[ybrik]

This episode solidified a thought I had after episode one. Josie wasn't the one who voted for Alaric to stay. Though this episode did make rethink who may have voted for him. I thought it was Dorian now I think it might have been Kaleb. 

This isn't my theory but I think it might be right, Sebastian is desiccated somewhere and is appearing to Lizzie kind of like Damon was able to call out to Caroline in season one. 

Speaking of overdone tropes Wade. Was that really necessary? 

Trying to remember but did we see Raf turn back? Don't remember seeing it which makes wonder if there is a chance he does remember Hope but is lying about it because Hope asked him too. 

[UNOSEZ]

36 minutes ago, ybrik said:

Speaking of overdone tropes Wade. Was that really necessary? 

Trying to remember but did we see Raf turn back? Don't remember seeing it which makes wonder if there is a chance he does remember Hope but is lying about it because Hope asked him too. 

Yeah.. The whole wade thing seemed cruel... 

As to the other point I wondered.. But was expecting him to have a final scene confirming it.. That didn't happen so unless its a huge fakeout 

[Terrafamilia]

Before Sebastian said he was a vampire I was going for incubus.

[Chris24601]

14 hours ago, ursula said:

I wish I could take that bet.

There are some narrative shifts that are just too drastic.  In TVD-5, the girls went to college, yet somehow Whitmore and their college dorm room never quite displaced Mystic Falls and the Salvatore House as the home base for the show. And that's not even getting into the fact that the high school can't logically displace Hogwarts in a magic school series. Yes, even if Harry Potter is enrolled in the high school - there's a reason why  the show was pitched as Hope in the Salvatore School, not Hope-In-The-City. Hope is 18. Technically, she's an adult and should have probably graduated from the school, since she's supposed to be a genius. They're keeping the trappings of magic high school for a reason. 

What's more likely that the show will do a few more "neutral ground" settings while gradually morphing Hope and Alaric back into the Salvatore School. 

To be fair, I never said the shift would be permanent. The center though is inarguably wherever they have both Hope and Alaric at the time. Between the needed skip episodes for other actors though I’d guess it’ll be mid-season at the earliest... depending on the contracts for the new kids I’d even say not until the lead-up to the finale is a possibility (i.e. if they have the same 12 ep contracts everyone else does they need to be in ten more... i.e. they’re around until at least episode 13 of 16).

That said... Legacies-2 is not the same thing as TVD-5. Sixteen episodes is not the same amount of inertia as 88. Other than “Monster of the Week” there’s still some “give” in what the core premise is that hasn’t been locked in by intertia.

 I’m not married to it either way.

I’m also not sure Hope is quite 18 yet. Almost no time seems to have passed for her during the months she was in Malavore so she’s physically about the same age she went in so physically she’s still probably 17.

On top of that she doesn’t even have a legal age because there aren’t many records of her to begin with. She was born in a graveyard and declared dead, spent years off the grid with Haley after Marcel became the Beast and then went to live at the Salvator School where the last thing Alaric did before forgetting her was destroy all records of her. She could probably say she’s anything from 16-21 and there’s zero evidence to prove otherwise.

That said, I think they’re going with the idea that Hope was a junior last year and is a senior this year and, because she is intelligent, has decided she needs to get at least a high school diploma if she’s going to rebuild something of a life post “Forgetting.”

I suspect her pre-Alaric plan was to go somewhere else entirely to start over (because being around people you cared for yet who didn’t even seem to miss you because they’d all forgotten you would have to suck)... hence the bus stop. But she can’t leave a monster roaming around, runs into Alaric and Landon and opts for at least something semi-familiar instead.

So this is being treated as Hope’s senior year (which lines up with the football love interest* already having a scholarship lined up post-graduation), which means even if Alaric goes back to the Salvator School, Hope should be going off to college and the center of gravity gets pulled around again (my guess is she gets a job at the school and does online college if Alaric goes back).

* He’s absolutely Hope’s LI for the season... introduced a little jerky, but by his second episode he’s choosing to walk home rather than vandalize, standing up to help his team when they need it (despite risking his scholarship if he’s injured) and then getting his hopes for college wrecked by malicious magic use. He’s being made deliberately sympathetic and has a wrong against him that needs to be made right. He is absolutely Hope-bait (same as Landon was last season).

side-bar: which I guess is another reason why I’m not worried about Sebastian eating the show a la Damon. Lizzie isn’t THE star the way Elena was. Barring a contract change she’ll miss about a quarter of the episodes this season which means Sebastian will too. Basically... he’s too far from the center of gravity to actually take over so he probably is indeed being played for laughs a bit with his over the top gothic “vampyr” vibe (and then as a legit danger once whatever he really is comes out).

[ursula]

On 10/26/2019 at 8:06 AM, Chris24601 said:

The centerthough is inarguably wherever they have both Hope and Alaric at the time.

JWell let's examine episode 3 where the worlds collided. Who got the A-plot and who got the B-plot? Whose story progressed, and changed the status quo, and who propped whom?

If you ask me, Josie got the A-plot. While Hope's story was fighting the MOTW and crying over Landon, and ended the episode exactly as she started it... It's Josie who got all the progressions: jealousy -> increased aggression -> Ethan's* arm -> repentance -> comfort/regression with Landon at the end. Hope was a prop for Josie's jealousy. Heck, you can even argue thatEthan ended up being Josie's prop in this episode: he put a sympathetic face on an otherwise nameless victim.  Hope's own relationship with Ethan made no difference to her story this episode. 

Taking Hope and Alaric out of the school isn't enough. Part of the reason is that Alaric is Hope's prop, the show has severed his own relationship with his kids to prioritize her, so he can't pull them into his orbit. Meanwhile, the twins are "lesser" stars but still have a lot of gravity, which the show is playing up to by giving Sebastian to Lizzie, with MG propping her story and Josie has Vardemus, with Landon propping her story.


On 10/26/2019 at 8:06 AM, Chris24601 said:

Legacies-2 is not the same thing as TVD-5. Sixteen episodes is not the same amount of inertia as 88. Other than “Monster of the Week” there’s still some “give” in what the core premise is that hasn’t been locked in by intertia.

On 10/26/2019 at 8:06 AM, Chris24601 said:

I’m also not sure Hope is quite 18 yet. Almost no time seems to have passed for her during the months she was in Malavore so she’s physically about the same age she went in so physically she’s still probably 17.

TVD took 4 seasons to get Elena through 2 years of high school, so inertia doesn't need 80+ episodes to set in. A drastic change in setting is the kind of "soft reboot" that only happens when a show is in trouble. Legacies had a successful first year. "If it ain't fixed, don't break it?" Exactly that.

Hope is 18, by the way, or she should be if the show was sticking to its own timeline. Born in May, 2 years older than the twins (who had their 16th birthday in season 1), and a prodigy, season 1 should have been her senior year and she should be graduated now. 3 months of summer in Malivore-time won't change that.

However, they can't take Hope out of the school and the show will probably stretch out this year over seasons like they did for TVD.

On 10/26/2019 at 8:06 AM, Chris24601 said:

side-bar: which I guess is another reason why I’m not worried about Sebastian eating the show a la Damon. Lizzie isn’t THE star the way Elena was. Barring a contract change she’ll miss about a quarter of the episodes this season which means Sebastian will too. Basically... he’s too far from the center of gravity to actually take over so he probably is indeed being played for laughs a bit with his over the top gothic “vampyr” vibe (and then as a legit danger once whatever he really is comes out).

Good point about someone like Sebastian pulling focus.

It's worth noting that a lot of viewers did not spot him as a parody  - they ate up the over-the-top performance. So just because he's started out as the show's attempt to mock his archetype doesn't mean they'll keep mocking the archetype. It was risky of the show to pair him with Lizzie, who's already a rival to Hope for the " whoaboutism " of the show.


Edited October 28, 2019 by ursula
Parody not prodigy

[tennisgurl]

I am totally on board the idea of Sebastian being some kind of illusion or other kind of monster (maybe an incubus or a ghost?) that is putting on a super ridiculous over the top vampire act to appeal to Lizzie because, well, Lizzie is a teenage girl and thats the kind of audience that that kind of theatrics often appeals to! Or he was created by the headmaster to keep her distracted while he corrupts Josie or something. I mean, look at this guy! Running around in his Byron outfit (at least most vampires in this universe have updated their wardrobes a few times a decade) only talking to Lizzie, his super ridiculous "I am vampyr" complete with goofy vein eyes, it seems like a parody of romantic vampires, not an actual one. Plus, its weird that he seems to have no idea where he is or whats actually going on, like he just stepped out of the past. Or a cheesy paranormal romance novel. I did crack up at Lizzie's relief to find out he was "just" a vampire, and Sebastian's confused response. Like, we have vampires running around all over the place dude, no worries!

Raf is back, hurrah! I was hoping that he would remember Hope, but I guess not. I will reserve my thoughts on this story until we see how it plays out, but I am glad that he and Landon are back together, their friendship is always a highlight of the show for me. 

Wow, dark Josie is super possessive of her boyfriend! Good thing Hope left early, or she would have probably been the one with a magically broken bone! She also seems to be picking up some of the Headmasters supernatural supremacist values, like when she was yelling at Landon about how he isnt a human so stop worrying about human crap (like...being not a dick?) and trying to prove that they're better than the non magic kids. Like, holy crap everyone, you all take this flag football game WAY too seriously! No need to hospitalize people, there are no stakes here! I wonder if he is just bringing this out in Josie, or if he is doing magic to get her to follow her darker impulses? She did say she felt off. 

MG and Lizzie have way more chemistry than Lizzie and Edward Cullen ghost, but I do hope that he gets more to do than be a supportive pal to Lizzie. Maybe deal with his mom, the anti supernatural agent? That coming back? I am glad that at least Lizzie was suspicious of this suspicious guy...before she went ahead and kissed him. 

The headmaster and his umbrella and sporting outfit was rather amusing, and I am interested to see what his deal really is, as he is clearly not who/what he says he is. I think that he ate/replaced the actual guy that Caroline hired, or else Caroline really needs to start doing a better job at checking references. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by tennisgurl