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S09. E05: Red Dawn

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I'm so very, very irritated right now. I just want a linear storyline. Is that too much to ask?

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Does anyone know what the hell is going on?

Nope. It's a mess. Murphy knows people will keep watching no matter what. He doesn't give a shit.

Edited by sashayshante
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Yes! I can't believe I actually guessed correctly that everyone is dead although I might be wrong that they are reliving their deaths. I think that I am also right that they are trapped there because they killed someone when they were alive.

Xavier cracked me up when he yelled that he would never be on the cover of TV Guide.

The 80s music is so good.

Edited by SimoneS
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So everyone is dead. But they have to stay at the camp. But wait, Jingles and Night Stalker where able to leave in the cop car. I have no clue where this is going now. 

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1 minute ago, Straycat80 said:

So everyone is dead. But they have to stay at the camp. But wait, Jingles and Night Stalker where able to leave in the cop car. I have no clue where this is going now. 

I think they were alive till they got there and killed on ground. What I’m not understanding is why only some of them immediately came back and not others. 

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There's an great old campy movie called Haunts of the Very Rich. I thought they might be going that direction and so far they are.

But this felt like an ending, not the beginning of 5 more episodes.

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2 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I think they were alive till they got there and killed on ground. What I’m not understanding is why only some of them immediately came back and not others. 

I agree. They were alive when they came to the camp but are now ghosts. We saw hitchhiker guy at the end. Maybe the guy who ended up in the lake and maybe the guy in the pit will show up later too. 

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It’s not a great endorsement of a show when at the end of every episode I mutter to myself “What the hell was that?” and then realize I don’t even care about the answer.

This season is a hot mess with cool period wardrobe and music.

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This is not "camp" it is just awful. Seriously awful. It has all been done before but this makes no sense. It is just soooooooo tedious. Will there be a shocking punchline? Some twist? Maybe it is time for AHS The End. 

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This is not "camp" it is just awful.

Camp is the wrong word for Haunts. It was deadly serious at the time, but it might seem campy to the younger viewer. I remember seeing it as a kid and Daddy Brady being so bad was scary enough.

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2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Xavier cracked me when he yelled that he would never be on the cover of TV Guide.

Xavier will have to be in radio! RADIO!

So now we have blown up our premise, and everyone is dead except for Brooke, Margaret, and Donna, and Brooke is blamed for all the murders. Oh, and Ray and Montana are ghosts, and maybe the other people who died as well. Of course, we only see the one dead 70s counselor, so maybe only some people have to stay at the Camp? Unless its the same kind of supernatural set up as Murder House and the Roanoke House and everyone who dies gets stuck there. Man, it would be nice to know where those places were, they seem best avoided.  

I have no clue where this is going, but I am just along for its weird nonsensical ride. I truly have no idea what the hell is going to happen next. 

So was using White Wedding not just the most obvious song that could possibly be used for Brookes flashback (or possibly her backstory was written with that just to use the song) but also foreshadowing the truth about Montana and her motivation? Or am I officially giving this show too much credit?

"Hey little sister, what have you done?
Hey little sister, who's the only one?
Hey little sister, who's your superman?
Hey little sister, who's the one you want?
Hey little sister, shotgun!"

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I think Ramirez and Jingles can leave the grounds because they pledged their souls to Satan and were re-born.

I agree with the poster that said they were all alive when they got to the camp.

While live-tweeting the episode, I saw someone else refer to Xavier as Xander, so Brooke must have said that name. Mistake? Intentional? No idea. I'm also confused as to how Montana had not a drop of blood on her during that extended fight with Brooke.

Have to say that when Billie Lourde is given something to do besides simper, she's pretty enjoyable.

Chet's death got to me the most. I remember an investigation ID or Dateline episode about a couple being robbed aboard their boat, tied up back to back and hitched to the anchor, which was then thrown over board. Those few seconds of hearing the anchor chain unfurl knowing what was coming must have been sheer terror.

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Welcome to camp kids. The first activity is murder.

Poor Brooke.  Probably gonna end up taking the fall just like Jingles did way back when.

Speaking off....Jingles and Ramirez a match made in like real Hell

And it looks like Camp Redwood is a Murder House type place run by psycho Montana.

And at  least 3 serial killers got out (I am counting both Jingles and Margaret)  The only question is Donna the fake nurses a real psychologist with a serial killer dad.  How will she shake out on all this?  

Episode 99 was a blast.

Bring on episode 100

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Not a game changer but the twists continue to work for me.

Brooke, it's your turn to take the rap for Margaret's crimes but at least you managed to stop Montana from actually getting her revenge and you did have some fun with Ray before finding out he was a ghost.

Of course Montana would find the fun in being a ghost stuck at Redwood for eternity. I'm guessing Ray is going to be the moral compass ghost though.

Margaret just had to kill both Chet and Xavier and one of them went to the trouble of actually saving her life.

Donna's flashbacks were interesting and Brooke's backstory with her fiancee was a lot deeper than expected. Great scenes there.

Interested in seeing where the Jingles and Night Stalker team up goes and bring on episode 100, 8/10

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2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

And at  least 3 serial killers got out (I am counting both Jingles and Margaret)  The only question is Donna the fake nurses a real psychologist with a serial killer dad.  How will she shake out on all this? 

It's probably too late to hope she winds up being the hero. Lol. 

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I wonder if we'll see Chet and Trevor again? If you're stuck there when you die there then where is everyone else who died there? All the kids from the 70s and the kids pretending to be Mr. Jingles?

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3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

And at  least 3 serial killers got out (I am counting both Jingles and Margaret)  The only question is Donna the fake nurses a real psychologist with a serial killer dad.  How will she shake out on all this?  

1 hour ago, Surrealist said:

It's probably too late to hope she winds up being the hero. Lol. 

Ironically not.   I know a lot of people hate the particular story arc but it does work in this genre.   Donna does a great wrong but by the end puts everything right and in doing so destroys the legacy of her father and his ghost.  
 

I doubt the show is going with a magic ghost baby again....unless since Brooke was a virgin and Ray was  a ghost it’s like Brooke had sex with nothing so you could say....it’s is like a virgin birth up in here.   The show could be working toward a final good versus evil showdown.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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I almost turned this off midway through. I'm so not digging this season and although I should know better than to expect AHS to make some kind of sense, I don't at all see the logic in Margaret killing off her counselors right before the kiddies come. And I'm guessing that 1984 medical procedures won't determine that Margaret's stab wound was self-inflicted.

I did like the shot of Ramirez and Mr. Jingles leaving the campgrounds, a la Thelma and Louise in the convertible, setting off on new adventures, and the scene of Ron meeting Jonas. But I don't really care what happens next.

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At this point the only familiar characters we've seen quickly reappear as ghosts are the ones who've callously killed or attempted to kill someone—Ray killed that pledge and left his friends for dead, Xavier tried to kill Rita/Donna and Jingles (possibly succeeding at the latter?) and wanted to leave Jonas for dead, Montana tried to kill Brooke and is pretty down with her Satanist serial killer boyfriend butchering people in general. Of those who haven't reappeared postmortem, Trevor accidentally killed the Jingles-costumed prankster but it was an act of self-defense and he seemed horrified when he realized what happened, and so far as we know Chet and Bertie haven't killed or harmed anyone at all. It may be that we're seeing a nascent Murder House/Hotel Cortez phenomenon as it forms, and so far it's only strong enough to latch onto the souls of the guilty/wicked. Ramirez being resurrected by Satan on site and then calling up the soul of a serial killer who died far away might be a contributing factor.

Phantom hitchhiker Jonas is the wild card. We don't know if he's guilty of anything, or if he's the only ghost from the 1970 massacre. He could be a sign that the campground has been a ghost trap for much longer, or an individual aberration that's been sticking around for some unrelated reason.

Edited by Bruinsfan
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9 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Phantom hitchhiker Jonas is the wild card. We don't know if he's guilty of anything, or if he's the only ghost from the 1970 massacre. He could be a sign that the campground has been a ghost trap for much longer, or an individual aberration that's been sticking around for some unrelated reason.

Jonas also seems to have a wider range of movement than the other ghosts, being able to leave the campgrounds.

Chet may have been off of the Redwood Camp property, being on the other side of the lake. Or Chet might be still chained up at the bottom of the lake, constantly resurrecting, only to immediately drown.

I wonder why Dee Dee didn't have a key to her father's house?

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One of the reasons I loathe procedurals is that now on non procedural shows we have people griping that no one is doing a DNA test or that CSI was never called in.  Why isn’t anyone taking hair samples or finger prints?  Why aren’t the cops interviewing the neighbors.

Margaret is a crafty psychopath framing yet another (mostly) innocent fir her crimes.   If any character is my favorite it is her.   I am hoping the show digs more into her story.   Also Brooke dealing with the “horror” of being framed with a bunch of violent murders.  It’s like Asylum up in here.  

There are so many ways this season can reference past seasons but don’t expect and particular procedure to show.   

Edited by Chaos Theory
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One of the AHS fan accounts on Instagram is saying that this season has been cut from 10 to 9 episodes. I never take anything those pages say seriously, but I wouldn't mind if they shortened the season.

With next week being the 100th episode, I'm wondering if any previous characters will appear. And then the week after that is the annual Halloween episode. Lots of possibilities. I;m sure they'll waste all of them.

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

It may be that we're seeing a nascent Murder House/Hotel Cortez phenomenon as it forms, and so far it's only strong enough to latch onto the souls of the guilty/wicked.

I think it's probably much simpler: who ever dies on the grounds stays there. I think Chet and Trevor will be back

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I think Ramirez and Jingles can leave the grounds because they pledged their souls to Satan and were re-born.

Agreed. Both were killed then resurrected so they're not ghosts. Their bodies were restored to live, whereas Ray, Montana, et. al. had bodies that were carted away (in two pieces, in Ray's case).

I'm starting to make a little sense of this now, in that it's like Murder House or Hotel in regards to souls being stuck where they're killed. 

That said, this is going to be one of the more polarizing seasons of the show and I'm still not sure which side I land on. It can appreciate the fun in the 80s nostalgia, although I think we've about had our fill of that by now with other shows. 80s nostalgia is the new 50s nostalgia from when I was a kid. It's all over the place. Still, the style and parody is clearly enough for some viewers.

I'm still struggling to find a throughline that's more tangible and compelling though.

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I was thinking about cancelling my cable but then I wouldn’t be able to see AHS anymore.  So, I’m going to cancel my cable and save some money.

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Me last episode: "I don't understand why everyone is complaining, this season is campy fun!" 

Me this episode: "Okay, what the actual fuck is happening?"

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18 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Xavier cracked me up when he yelled that he would never be on the cover of TV Guide.

The 80s music is so good.

I did not laugh at that. I rolled my eyes. This season cannot make up it's mind. Is it horror or comedy or a blend or both? it just deteriorates to a place of stupid for me. 

Other seasons may have been a blend, but never as corny as this season. 

And as far as the 80s music, it does nothing for me. 

Edited by DakotaLavender
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I unfortunately haven't had the time available to post for a few seasons (although I always read your posts!), but I had to comment that this is already one of my favorite seasons. I find it wild, wacky and nostalgic. I would have been about the same age as the counselors in 1984. However, I can totally see how this season would be very polarizing to viewers. It's going on at a frenetic pace, almost seeming to try and one-up itself in the number of twists and turns, it almost seems like a long dream or a weird cartoon. I personally love it, but others might not.

It seems (especially if you see the preview) that this season might be broken into a front and back half, sort of like Roanoke, where the story takes a completely different turn halfway through. I seem to remember reading somewhere that this was in fact the case. Who knows, I am having an entertaining ride!

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I'm still enjoying it, and I didn't think it was all that confusing. At the end, Montana called it purgatory. There was also the boat scene about confession and judgment. I'm taking that to mean that the ones who didn't repent before dying are stuck, those who who did (or were good, I guess) go somewhere else, and those who found, um, "salvation" in Satan get to leave to continue doing evil. Which is what I'm guessing will be the case with Montana. 

There's still a lot of wtf moments, and I initially thought this was the finale, but for me, for now, it makes enough sense to roll with it. Honestly it's clearer to me than Asylum was, maybe that's part of why I'm not so bothered. 

I'm also assuming, as someone else mentioned, Brooke is pregnant by a ghost. Or maybe that's how Mallory from Apocalypse came to exist (though she was younger). 

Oh, and was that intentionally bad stunt doubles during the fight in the shed between Brooke and Montana? It reminded me of Buffy back in the day. 

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I wasn't confused either. Jingles and Night Stalker wanna be drove off because they were either resurrected by Satan or inhabited by demons. Solid black eyes are a typical demon tell in the horror genre. 

Everyone else who died in sin is still there. 

Montana said right out that the one dude isn't doing Purgatory right. So, this is Purgatory. Why that is probably never going to know- because AHS falls apart for the second half most of the time. I'm still enjoying this more than Cult. 

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43 minutes ago, Bali said:

I wasn't confused either. Jingles and Night Stalker wanna be drove off because they were either resurrected by Satan or inhabited by demons. Solid black eyes are a typical demon tell in the horror genre. 

Everyone else who died in sin is still there. 

Montana said right out that the one dude isn't doing Purgatory right. So, this is Purgatory. Why that is probably never going to know- because AHS falls apart for the second half most of the time. I'm still enjoying this more than Cult. 

This is not purgatory in the Roman Catholic definition because they are still on earth.  They seem to be ghosts in the same vein as Murder House and Hotel where they are trapped in a specific area and can interact with the living.  This could be Ryan Murphy's version of purgatory though.  

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27 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

This is not purgatory in the Roman Catholic definition because they are still on earth.  They seem to be ghosts in the same vein as Murder House and Hotel where they are trapped in a specific area and can interact with the living.  This could be Ryan Murphy's version of purgatory though.  

I know it isn't the Roman Catholic definition of Purgatory. But Ryan Murphy's definition of Christian isn't what I know it to be either. I/e Margaret's rantings about how Christians can kill anyone they want, or whatever. Whenever someone starts going off on how evil Christians are, I tend to tune it out. 

Montana said it was Purgatory. So, for me, this season, it's Purgatory. Murder House and Hotel might be Purgatory too. Who knows? I know that RM said all seasons are connected, but he can't get a single coherent season, I don't expect full cannon attention during 9. Honestly, this is one show where the less I think, the better I think it is. And this season requires zero thought. There's a lot going on for me right now, so getting to shut off my brain for an hour a week makes me happy.

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On 10/17/2019 at 11:42 AM, iMonrey said:

That said, this is going to be one of the more polarizing seasons of the show and I'm still not sure which side I land on. It can appreciate the fun in the 80s nostalgia, although I think we've about had our fill of that by now with other shows. 80s nostalgia is the new 50s nostalgia from when I was a kid. It's all over the place. Still, the style and parody is clearly enough for some viewers.

I'm still struggling to find a throughline that's more tangible and compelling though.

 I am willing to tolerate a lot of plot incoherence (this is AHS, after all), and I appreciate the '80s references and pretty good take-off of '80s slashers, but it is just not as fun as I expected it to be.  I think part of the problem is the cast - this very much feels like "AHS - JV Squad".  Leslie Grossman and Cody Fern (and Matthew Morrison before killed off -or is he?) seem to be the only two who really get the "camp at camp" vibe.  I also think throwing a real serial killer into the mix was a mistake - we all know how things ended for him IRL, plus I just think it is kind of gross throwing him into this campy send up given that real people suffered and died. 

All that said, I will probably be in it to the end, which is more than I can say for some of the more recent AHS seasons.  

Edited by Regalbegal
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I think the other problem I'm having with this season is that a typical 80s slasher flick lasts somewhere between 80 and 100 minutes. Assuming 44 minutes per episode we're going on 220 minutes of this story. There's a reason those movies were fairly short. You're not supposed to be spending this much time following it and trying to figure it out. It works as mindless thrills, not as an extended story. 

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On 10/17/2019 at 4:00 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

Does anyone know what the hell is going on?

Okay so....

I am pretty confused obviously the first 5 episodes are the “classic horror film” kids go to camp kids get killed blah blah blah... however I feel like the upcoming episodes might bring it around better,

im very confused how Montana knew she was dead... and how she knew they were stuck in purgatory and ray didn’t? I think there is definitely more to Brooke then what we know they all have a dark past somewhere along the line hers isn’t that squeaky clean. Right? 
 

I think whoever is around night stalker can travel with him freely. Like death travels from place to place. Maybe 

honestly I’m pretty confused and it’s probably one of the most... faced paced AHS seasons to date with everything being set up I just feel like this is just the beginning of this season 

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On 10/17/2019 at 9:28 PM, DakotaLavender said:

I did not laugh at that. I rolled my eyes. This season cannot make up it's mind. Is it horror or comedy or a blend or both? it just deteriorates to a place of stupid for me. 

Other seasons may have been a blend, but never as corny as this season. 

And as far as the 80s music, it does nothing for me. 

It’s meant to be corny! 
 

it’s in the 80’s have you ever watched an 80’s horror film, they are stupid and literally ridiculous I think that is something Ryan wanted to keep true, like you were watching an 80’s film with the campy, stupid and the down right WTF moments. If it took itself too seriously as his other seasons we wouldn’t get that true 80’s feel when we watch it

i think it’s rather clever how he’s blended the 80’s and his typical style, that being said. I do think it’s a lot for an audience to follow. We have ghosts, we have the devil, we have things that just don’t add up,

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1 hour ago, Coopercrush said:

It’s meant to be corny! 
 

it’s in the 80’s have you ever watched an 80’s horror film, they are stupid and literally ridiculous I think that is something Ryan wanted to keep true, like you were watching an 80’s film with the campy, stupid and the down right WTF moments. If it took itself too seriously as his other seasons we wouldn’t get that true 80’s feel when we watch it

i think it’s rather clever how he’s blended the 80’s and his typical style, that being said. I do think it’s a lot for an audience to follow. We have ghosts, we have the devil, we have things that just don’t add up,

So what's the point of the season? It's all been done before in crappy and corny ways. What's new about this parody? For me, after all is said and done it is just boring. 

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3 hours ago, Coopercrush said:

I think whoever is around night stalker can travel with him freely. Like death travels from place to place. Maybe 

I think Mr. Jingles pledged his soul to Satan and was resurrected, he has some unfinished business with Margaret Booth.

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This felt like a season finale rather than the middle episode. Wonder what will happen in the next 5 episodes? Maybe Donna will help Brooke escape from the same asylum, and history will repeat itself again with the new Jingles (Brooke)?

Hope we see Chef Bertie again.

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This is fun in the way Hotel was fun for me.  I never agreed that the plot falls apart in the 2nd half but I do think the show does drop a few plot points and that unnerves people who watch shows with a white board and connected lines  I went to a movie once and there was a guy sitting next to ne taking notes.  My father (who went with me) asked him if he was a reviewer he looked rudely at us both and said he was just making sure the movie made sense.  I always thought that was how a lot of people watch movies and tv shows like it was a college class that they needed to write a ten page paper on later.  If a show can entertain me for a half hour or sixty minutes I can usually ignore plot holes.  Its only when the show is actually bad and stupid that I even notice plot holes.  

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TV Guide confirmed the season has been cut back. It was supposed to be 10 episodes and they decided mid-season to shorten it to 9. That can't be a good sign.

Edited by sashayshante
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I wish they'd do a straightforward slasher without any supernatural elements. The trick is getting old. But maybe it's because I liked reality-bound Cult more than many other seasons. 

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5 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

Cody Fern needs to play Lestat. I am not sure what is going with the VC show that Anne Rice has invested in, but hire this guy. He's that good. 

Season 8 was basically his demo reel/audition for the role.

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